California Tanker's Sig Image

[MonCapitan2002]

I think the smilie in his signature is hoard-worthy. I think it would be a good idea to add it to the hoard. :yup:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Ascout/brokenimagefightershc1.gif

[livius drusus]

The artist hasn't been on dA in a long time. I'll ask him, though, just in case he checks in.

[MonCapitan2002]

So you think it's hoardworthy? :wriggle:

[livius drusus]

I prefer it to the one we have now, which was of course the artist's inspiration. I don't want them both in the hoard, but I'd gladly replace the one we have with the one in CT's sig.

[godfry n. glad]

ahem

[MonCapitan2002]

I prefer it to the one we have now, which was of course the artist's inspiration. I don't want them both in the hoard, but I'd gladly replace the one we have with the one in CT's sig.
Why not have both? I cannot countenance smiliecide. It would be a shame for one smilie to be killed to make room for another.

[livius drusus]

They are too similar. It's one or the other.

[MonCapitan2002]

Can I see the existing one? I am not sure which one you wish to get rid of.

[ceptimus]

We had this argument once already. (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4372)

:bath: :badbath:

ETA: :404:

[livius drusus]

Yes, and I regret caving then. This time I won't back down. :caesar2:

MonCap, this is the original: :404:

[pescifish]

We had this argument once already. (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4372)

:bath: :badbath:I am so very grateful that :badbath: is still here. It is a perfect smiley to represent Archimedes' "Eureka!" moment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_%28word%29). :yup:

[ETA: Plus it brings back fond memories of Adora (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=158762#post158762).]

[Sauron]

I've been seeing the red X's for certain smilies lately.

Anyone else have this problem?

[MonCapitan2002]

Yes, and I regret caving then. This time I won't back down. :caesar2:

MonCap, this is the original: :404:
We'll have to argue it out, then.

[godfry n. glad]

Throw rational argumentation out the window, then.

liv is not rational when discussing this. As you have noted, there are already highly similar smilies within the collection, yet she now demands that one replace another, based upon said similarity. Her first rationalization has been effectively shot down, so far as I'm concerned.

This is very similar to the discussion over discomonkey, which is a far, far better and far more evocotive smiley that many already in the collection, yet she will not add it to the horde because of her subjective aesthetic opinion. She cares not what others happen to think about any given smiley, particularly if it is at odds with what she seems to think at the time. This latest incident, of replacing a classic smiley with another, at the request of one other member of the board. Did she ask anyone else....No. Did she consider that others just might be upset by such manipulation....No. She just unilaterally offers to replace a time-tried and tested smiley, already part of the FF smiley horde, with some inauthentic, illicitly uploaded, alien smiley.

Hell, if anyone else had done what California Tanker had done, they'd have their self-image assailed, been browbeaten and intimidated, and had their knuckles firmly rapped by Ms. Horde's nunly ruler.

So... How is it that CT gets this kind of special treatment?

Why is this one, with it's reliance upon automatic weaponry, any better than the classic?

[MonCapitan2002]

He put it in his sig. I am the one that suggested it be added to the hoard. Besides, I think it was created by the same artist. It looks like the same creator made both smilies.

I agree with you that her arguments are not rational. There are loads of similar smiles in the hoard. :garcon: :garcon2: :waiter:

[livius drusus]

She cares not what others happen to think about any given smiley, particularly if it is at odds with what she seems to think at the time.
False, as proven by the bathtub, green welcome, old cheerleader, and many other extant smilies I would have replaced long ago if it weren't for the public will to keep the old ones.

This latest incident, of replacing a classic smiley with another, at the request of one other member of the board.

False. MonCap requested that the new one be added but only if the old one remains.

She just unilaterally offers to replace a time-tried and tested smiley, already part of the FF smiley horde, with some inauthentic, illicitly uploaded, alien smiley.

I have asked for author permission, which as I said, will most likely not be forthcoming, therefore making this latest jeremiad of yours moot.

So... How is it that CT gets this kind of special treatment?
CT didn't make the request. MonCap did.

Why is this one, with it's reliance upon automatic weaponry, any better than the classic?

The red smiley is a far nicer piece of pixel work, with an updated aesthetic that better matches the 2500 or so smilies I've added since the inception of the hoard.

Besides, I think it was created by the same artist. It looks like the same creator made both smilies.

No. Camikaze made the original. Big-E made the update.

I agree with you that her arguments are not rational. There are loads of similar smiles in the hoard. :garcon: :garcon2: :waiter:

Good example of me going against my own preference to accomodate people like godfry who insisted the first one was not good enough.

[MonCapitan2002]

I think both are awesome.

[livius drusus]

Yes, I know. We'll discuss it again in the unlikely event I should receive author permission.

[viscousmemories]

As far as I'm concerned the fact that livius is the one (and only one) who has put literally hundreds of hours over the last couple of years into finding, commissioning, making, uploading, and organizing the smilie collection here, her aesthetic judgement is all the justification she needs when determining which smilies stay and go - as has been the case since we came online.

[Ymir's blood]

liv is the Smilie Queen

[godfry n. glad]

She cares not what others happen to think about any given smiley, particularly if it is at odds with what she seems to think at the time.
False, as proven by the bathtub, green welcome, old cheerleader, and many other extant smilies I would have replaced long ago if it weren't for the public will to keep the old ones.

So...This time will be different? If you can get the artist's approval, you'll just replace one with the other? That's precious little room for "the public will".

This latest incident, of replacing a classic smiley with another, at the request of one other member of the board.

False. MonCap requested that the new one be added but only if the old one remains.

Well...Sorta. MonCap asked that the new one (a horrid alien introduction, based upon past Smiley Queen snits) be added. THEN, you told him that it was one or the other. After that, he had trepidations and began vasillating.

She just unilaterally offers to replace a time-tried and tested smiley, already part of the FF smiley horde, with some inauthentic, illicitly uploaded, alien smiley.

I have asked for author permission, which as I said, will most likely not be forthcoming, therefore making this latest jeremiad of yours moot.

Ah...good. Of course, if it is forthcoming, my latest jeremiad will be to the point.

So... How is it that CT gets this kind of special treatment?
CT didn't make the request. MonCap did.

So... Did I miss the post where CT was visciously browbeaten for introducing an alien smiley to the FF fora? CT didn't make the request, but got the special treatment, so far as I can tell.

Why is this one, with it's reliance upon automatic weaponry, any better than the classic?

The red smiley is a far nicer piece of pixel work, with an updated aesthetic that better matches the 2500 or so smilies I've added since the inception of the hoard.

"Updated aesthetic"? "Better matches..." Sorry, but I don't see either. I thought the aesthetic was to move away from gratuitous firearm violence.

I agree with you that her arguments are not rational. There are loads of similar smiles in the hoard. :garcon: :garcon2: :waiter:

Good example of me going against my own preference to accomodate people like godfry who insisted the first one was not good enough.

False. I asked for a garçon; we got a wine steward. :waiter: When I pointed that out, we got a waiter. :garcon: Since then, that other :garcon2: has been added and I was completely unaware of it. I had nothing to do with it. It looks distinctly of lower quality than the :garcon: and the :waiter:, and I suspect it was an act of unilateral decision-making by liv, in direct contradiction to her present protestations of not adding similar smileys, particularly if they are of lower quality than existing ones.

:glare:

:tongueincheek: :giggle:

[ms_ann_thrope]

I had to go look up "jeremiad."
:duh:

[pescifish]

...her aesthetic judgement is all the justification she needs when determining which smilies stay and go ...:yeahthat:

[godfry n. glad]

...her aesthetic judgement is all the justification she needs when determining which smilies stay and go ...:yeahthat:


No question.

But it seems that as a result, I should shut my trap up and accept it for what it is. End discourse. Even if in jest.

I can think what I want, but I'd damned well keep it to myself?

So be it.

:giggle:

[pescifish]

But it seems that as a result, I should shut my trap up and accept it for what it is. End discourse. Even if in jest.

I can think what I want, but I'd damned well keep it to myself?

So be it.Hey Dood.

I didn't say any such all of that -- I hope by quoting me and then saying all that you aren't attributing that attitude to me. :unglare:


[ETA: Well, not that I wasn't perhaps thinking along those lines. But I would damn well keep it to myself, if I did! :wink: ]

[godfry n. glad]

Aye, aye, Cap'n! Arrrrrr....

[godfry n. glad]

don' mess with the smiley queen
:dragon: :onfire:

[TomJoe]

I want discomonkey.

[MonCapitan2002]

As do I. Sadly, liv refuses to add it to the hoard.

[California Tanker]

So... Did I miss the post where CT was visciously browbeaten for introducing an alien smiley to the FF fora? CT didn't make the request, but got the special treatment, so far as I can tell.


I shall flagellate myself with a wet noodle.

Unless you're really not joking, and I actually have broken some rule I didn't read.

NTM

[MonCapitan2002]

Insofar as I know, no rules have been broken by you.

[godfry n. glad]

No, CT, you have not "broken rules". Set ones anyway. In the past, when posters would introduce a smiley which did not come from the FF smiley horde, liv was all over them like a bad latex body suit.

She claims she has "standards" which smilies must meet before they are added to the "official" FF collection. So far as I can tell, those standards are as idiocyncratic as any arbitrary and capricious "standard" I've ever seen. In this case, she could just add your smiley and be done with it. Instead, she's arbitrarily decided that she only wants one of "that kind", when, as several cases in point illustrate (including an entire crisper bin full of snappy dancin' veggies), she already has duplicate types of minor variation.

I personally think liv is just a bit schizophrenic about it. As you've seen in this thread, there are times which she maintains that she bows to the "public will". Yet, as seen when the sycophantic lickspittles come charging in, they'll make it ever so clear that liv has the "final word" and that it's "her collection" and she can damned well do with as she wishes. All of which I actually agree with. I just have fun pushing buttons when I think they're arbitrarily absurd, as they are in the case of what liv allows and what she does not allow within the confines of her smiley harem.

There are those of us here who would like to see "discomonkey", the little guy in MonCapitan2002's sig, added to the collection. ManM introduced him much as you did the smiley in your post and was roundly scouraged by the harpy liv. She adamantly objects based upon some subjective and entirely arbitrary standard which nobody but she understands. It usually ends up being a show of raw naked power on liv's part. :domtrix:

All in all, it's been a running gag which still manages to elicit a sizeable response; many who take it as serious debate.

[California Tanker]

Ah, I was wondering what the Discomonkey sig line was about, but never wanted to give him the satisfaction of my asking.

NTM

[wei yau]

/me charges in like a sycophantic lickspittle

A couple of points of difference, as I see them.

1) "discomonkey" was indeed introduced by ManM and was in the sig for a while. liv didn't add "discomonkey" to the hoard, but I don't recall any objections to having it in the sig.

2) it's liv's hoard, if she chooses to accept the "public will", then she does so. If not, it's her hoard, it's her decision. I see nothing schizophrenic about that, ultimately it's liv's decision.

3) I suppose it is arbitrary, but I don't think it's absurd. As you say, it is raw naked power, :livcrop: Once you accept that, you'll no longer think it is absurd.

4) The hideousness that is discomonkey should be apparent to anyone who's had the misfortune to lay eyes on that thing.

[Sock Puppet]

I personally think liv is just a bit schizophrenic about it.
So your objection is the halfhearted commitment to schizoid behavior, Dr. Jekyll? :jekhyde:

[godfry n. glad]

Yes. :P

[viscousmemories]

Do you know what kind of art you like, godfry? Well enough to enumerate the qualities in a thorough and consistent written standard?

[livius drusus]

Every time I've thought I hated a certain kind of art, some exception has sprung up to make me eat my words. Every time I've thought I loved a specific kind of art, some exception has sprung up to make me qualify my statement.

I put things in the hoard that I didn't personally like back when it was new because I knew others would like them, or consider them "classics". Other things I used to like 2 years ago now look crappy to me but I keep them in because other people still like them. I'll add things now that I consider shitty graphics because they don't bother me and someone requested them.

But I'm not going to add something I hate just because it's requested. The hoard is gigantic and has something for everyone. I don't have to go around pooperscooping smilies and I won't. Don't like my choices? You have my condolences.

Tastes evolve, as do the requirements of the hoard. Call it schizophrenia if you like. I'll take that over rigid demarcation any day.

[godfry n. glad]

Do you know what kind of art you like, godfry? Well enough to enumerate the qualities in a thorough and consistent written standard?

Art? Nobody has satisfied me with any kind of acceptable definition of what art is. Yes...I have my druthers. Some things which are passed off as "art" by others, I often think are shit. Some actually are...in a can.

Yes, liv has her tastes. I have mine. Multiply that by the number of members at FF and you have that many perspectives. I personally think that liv has some absolutely horridly abyssmal taste in some smilies. The grotesque unmentionables live down to their name, and are, in my opinion, a glaring example of bad taste.

She seems comfortable in imposing her tastes on others and claiming that they are somehow definitive and that's just fine. She has done me many a great favor and I think very highly of her, but that does not make her arbiter of my taste, even in smilies. Every so often, I will express that.

[viscousmemories]

She seems comfortable in imposing her tastes on others and claiming that they are somehow definitive and that's just fine.
Huh? How has she imposed her tastes on others and when has she ever claimed they're definitive? She owns the collection, she decides what goes into it. If anyone doesn't like her choices they don't have to use them. If our intent was ever for the smilies to be owned by and representative of the :ff: membership at large, they'd have to be elected democratically. And quite frankly the average smilie couldn't possibly afford to run a successful campaign.

Ironically I happen to think the Unmentionables are among the best in the collection - not least because they don't conform to the arbitrary but widely obeyed standards of emoticon aesthetic. They're revolutionary, in my opinion, as well as adorable and fun. But what does it matter what I think? It's not my collection. I like Discomonkey too, but livius doesn't. Oh well. No Discomonkey in the collection. :shrug:

[MonCapitan2002]

So what ever happened with the sig image? Will the smilie get added?

[livius drusus]

If I'd heard back from the artist I would have posted as much, MonCap. No, the smiley will not be added.