xian vs christian

[beyelzu]

over at cf, they dont let people use the word xian. The claim that it is insulting. I thought the whole point of view was bullshit.

Today, when I was making a post, I realized that I never use christian, always xian.

2 things.

one, if xian is insulting, shouldnt xmas be as well?

two, do some of us use xian to fuck with them in a whole cerebral santa is jesus kind of way?

[viscousmemories]

Y'know, I don't use it but then I don't use xmas either. My reason is that "eks-mas" and "eks-tschin" just don't sound right, and I'm anal about how things sound even in writing. So while I do think some Christians are offended by it and would probably not use it for that reason, the biggest reason I don't use it is because I'm anal.

[beyelzu]

Y'know, I don't use it but then I don't use xmas either. My reason is that "eks-mas" and "eks-tschin" just don't sound right, and I'm anal about how things sound even in writing. So while I do think some Christians are offended by it and would probably not use it for that reason, the biggest reason I don't use it is because I'm anal.
its kind of funny. I think of xian as icksian, but I accept it to mean christian.

[Goliath]

"xian" is a completely legitimate abbreviation of "Christian". If the xians don't like it, they can fuck off. :shrug: Why should I care about what offends them?

[beyelzu]

"xian" is a completely legitimate abbreviation of "Christian". If the xians don't like it, they can fuck off. :shrug: Why should I care about what offends them?
well, not offending them can make meaningful dialogue easier. Of course, I use xian, so maybe I am not the best spokesman for diplomacy.

[livius drusus]

one, if xian is insulting, shouldnt xmas be as well?

I imagine there are Christians who find both insulting, including some of the folks who make rules at CF. The letter X in English carries certain baggage: wrongness, error, even nonexistence. Remember what being "exed" meant in A Wrinkle in Time (or was it one of the sequels)?

two, do some of us use xian to fuck with them in a whole cerebral santa is jesus kind of way?

Yes, I think some of us do. I think the claim that it's just the Chi-Rho of early Christian symbolism is bullshit. There ain't no rho, for one thing, just the chi. When I started using at IIDB it was definitely in the tone you describe: superior, pompous, mocking. Oh sure, I used the old Chi-Rho excuse myself, but I think the truth is that I was indulging myself in the aren't we atheists ever so much smarter than theists (especially them xians who don't even know about the Chi-Rho and are therefore likely to find it offensive thereby giving me a chance to talk down to people as if I were more conversant in ancient Greek and Christian history than they) feeling.

I stopped doing it when I stopped finding such self-indulgence amusing and I much prefer it this way. xian is ugly, doesn't capitalize well and as vm noted, doesn't sound right. I have many reasons to spell Christian out and none to abbreviate.

[beyelzu]

chi-rho?

I am afraid that I have never seen the chirho defense at II or I dont remember it.

Care to elaborate?

[beyelzu]

looked it up

2nd result for chi-rho xian. I have to agree that atheists using xian is probably not based on a tradition of using greek letters for abbreviations and more based on xmas. On the other hand, I am a lazy typist, and xian is like five letters shorter than christian

[Goliath]

chi-rho?

I am afraid that I have never seen the chirho defense at II or I dont remember it.

Care to elaborate?

IIRC, the Greek letter Chi (which kinda looks like an "X") was the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christ. That is where both "xmas" and "xian" come from.

Ironically enough, I was taught that by my pastor waaaaaaay back when I was a xian.

Edited to say: D'oh! Cross post...

[Goliath]

well, not offending them can make meaningful dialogue easier.

I hope I don't start another flame war by asking this one word question: So?

[dave_a]

I prefer to use xian because it is much shorter than Christian and doesn't require me to hold the shift key while typing the 'C'. I tend to stay away from it when I am conversing with a Christian though, simply because I know some don't like it and therefore it would impede the conversation.

[beyelzu]

well, not offending them can make meaningful dialogue easier.

I hope I don't start another flame war by asking this one word question: So?
no flamewar from me.

as meaningful dialogue is important to me at least some of the time, I think that I should probably start using christian instead of xian. Or maybe I will do it so I dont irritate the local* christians as they are good bunch of people.

if dialogue is not important to you, then you shouldnt care about the distinction.


*local referring to here at ff

[Goliath]

no flamewar from me.

Thank you.

as meaningful dialogue is important to me at least some of the time, I think that I should probably start using christian instead of xian.

Well, you do realize that some of them may (and probably will) bitch at you for not capitalizing the "c", right?



if dialogue is not important to you, then you shouldnt care about the distinction.


Dialogue is important to me, just not dialogue with them.

[Dingfod]

Don't worry, you are already pretty offensive, you dick. :wink:

[seebs]

I have seen it used as an intentional attempt to speak rudely, and I've seen it used as just an abbreviation. I tend to try not to read anything into it, although the correlation with vague dislike for Christianity is pretty detectable. But I don't really worry about it that much.

Amusingly, my agent's given name is "Christian", and his email addy is "xian@".

[beyelzu]

no flamewar from me.

Thank you.

as meaningful dialogue is important to me at least some of the time, I think that I should probably start using christian instead of xian.

Well, you do realize that some of them may (and probably will) bitch at you for not capitalizing the "c", right?

yeah, but since I dont capitalize my own name, I doubt I will go out of my way to cap that c.



if dialogue is not important to you, then you shouldnt care about the distinction.


Dialogue is important to me, just not dialogue with them.
I do understand that distinction, sorry if I wasn't clear. I disagree with the distinction you make, but I dont want to get into that again here.

[beyelzu]

Don't worry, you are already pretty offensive, you dick. :wink:
no doubt

:tmgrin:

[Goliath]

yeah, but since I dont capitalize my own name, I doubt I will go out of my way to cap that c.


Yep, true. However, just pointing out that using "christian" instead of "xian" may not keep you from getting any less flak....espeically at a place like CF.


I do understand that distinction, sorry if I wasn't clear.

No problem.

[beyelzu]

I have seen it used as an intentional attempt to speak rudely, and I've seen it used as just an abbreviation. I tend to try not to read anything into it, although the correlation with vague dislike for Christianity is pretty detectable. But I don't really worry about it that much.

true enough, I have a general dislike for xianity and I use the abbreviation. :tmgrin:

seriously, I do test positive for the correlation, I dont think I do it spitefully.

Amusingly, my agent's given name is "Christian", and his email addy is "xian@".
my brother is also named christian and his last name is based on christian as well. kind of funny cuz he is such a fucking atheist.

[godfry n. glad]

Well, you do realize that some of them may (and probably will) bitch at you for not capitalizing the "c", right?



Is there a rationale for that? Do they return the favor by capitalizing "Atheist"?

I've always found it rather presumptuous that many claim "God" as their name for their god...some to the extent that that reverentially write it as "G-d". Now that's offensive. :D

[beyelzu]

I just wanted to say to avoid confusion that while my brother's last name is a derivative of christian, mine is not. I have a kick ass uber normal lass name.

[beyelzu]

Well, you do realize that some of them may (and probably will) bitch at you for not capitalizing the "c", right?



Is there a rationale for that? Do they return the favor by capitalizing "Atheist"?

I've always found it rather presumptuous that many claim "God" as their name for their god...some to the extent that that reverentially write it as "G-d". Now that's offensive. :D
because both christ and christian are proper names, atheist is not.


but then, I dont capitalize most of the time so what do I know.

[godfry n. glad]

Well, you do realize that some of them may (and probably will) bitch at you for not capitalizing the "c", right?



Is there a rationale for that? Do they return the favor by capitalizing "Atheist"?

because both christ and christian are proper names, atheist is not.


Actually, that's not true. It's true that christians have made it into a proper name, but the term "christ", at it's base, is a descriptive term, not a name.

And...it meant "ointment"....as in "for external application only".

Jesus Christ means something akin to "Josh the greasy."

And... how is Christian any more of a proper name than Atheist?

godfry

[beyelzu]

Well, you do realize that some of them may (and probably will) bitch at you for not capitalizing the "c", right?



Is there a rationale for that? Do they return the favor by capitalizing "Atheist"?

because both christ and christian are proper names, atheist is not.


Actually, that's not true. It's true that christians have made it into a proper name, but the term "christ", at it's base, is a descriptive term, not a name.

And...it meant "ointment"....as in "for external application only".

Jesus Christ means something akin to "Josh the greasy."

And... how is Christian any more of a proper name than Atheist?

godfry


my last name is smith, I guess that it shouldnt be capitalized because it is someone who works with metal? it doesnt matter where the word comes from, it is a proper name now.

and christianity is a religion, a christian is a member of that religion.

atheism is not a religion and an atheist is a member of no religion.

just saying apples and oranges.

[godfry n. glad]

Well, you do realize that some of them may (and probably will) bitch at you for not capitalizing the "c", right?



Is there a rationale for that? Do they return the favor by capitalizing "Atheist"?

because both christ and christian are proper names, atheist is not.


Actually, that's not true. It's true that christians have made it into a proper name, but the term "christ", at it's base, is a descriptive term, not a name.

And...it meant "ointment"....as in "for external application only".

Jesus Christ means something akin to "Josh the greasy."

And... how is Christian any more of a proper name than Atheist?

godfry


my last name is smith, I guess that it shouldnt be capitalized because it is someone who works with metal? it doesnt matter where the word comes from, it is a proper name now.

Y'know...It's your name and you can damned well do with it what you will.

and christianity is a religion, a christian is a member of that religion.

atheism is not a religion and an atheist is a member of no religion.

just saying apples and oranges.

Yep... yer right.

A christ, the Christ, the christ, a Christ. Eh...who cares?

Mr. and Mrs. Christ? And all the little Christs? Old man Joe Christ, his father. His bro, Jim Christ?

It's not his frikken name.

It's a theological claim.

Capitalize it if you wish...I just don't think it deserves it. That's just the skeptic in me. Normally, I don't capitalize atheist; don't want to, either.

godfry

[Goliath]

I'd like to formally apologize for saying that I'm not interested in dialogue with xians. That's not true. I should've qualified "xians" with "some".

My apologies.

[LadyShea]

Christian is a proper noun even if you don't believe in it's tenets. I usually spell it out and capitalize it as well.

[beyelzu]

Well, you do realize that some of them may (and probably will) bitch at you for not capitalizing the "c", right?



Is there a rationale for that? Do they return the favor by capitalizing "Atheist"?

because both christ and christian are proper names, atheist is not.


Actually, that's not true. It's true that christians have made it into a proper name, but the term "christ", at it's base, is a descriptive term, not a name.

And...it meant "ointment"....as in "for external application only".

Jesus Christ means something akin to "Josh the greasy."

And... how is Christian any more of a proper name than Atheist?

godfry


my last name is smith, I guess that it shouldnt be capitalized because it is someone who works with metal? it doesnt matter where the word comes from, it is a proper name now.

Y'know...It's your name and you can damned well do with it what you will.

and christianity is a religion, a christian is a member of that religion.

atheism is not a religion and an atheist is a member of no religion.

just saying apples and oranges.

Yep... yer right.

A christ, the Christ, the christ, a Christ. Eh...who cares?

Mr. and Mrs. Christ? And all the little Christs? Old man Joe Christ, his father. His bro, Jim Christ?

It's not his frikken name.

It's a theological claim.

Capitalize it if you wish...I just don't think it deserves it. That's just the skeptic in me. Normally, I don't capitalize atheist; don't want to, either.

godfry


I fail to see the point you are making

[beyelzu]

Christian is a proper noun even if you don't believe in it's tenets. I usually spell it out and capitalize it as well.
Yeah, I agree in priniciple but in reality, I dont capitalize much. I only capitalize I because some one told me, Zar I think, that my posts were a complete pain in the ass to read because I did not use periods or capitalize Is. So, in fact I dont really choose to not capitalize christian, I just dont go out of my way to capitalize it.

[wildernesse]

I'd like to formally apologize for saying that I'm not interested in dialogue with xians. That's not true. I should've qualified "xians" with "some".

My apologies.

I really appreciate that you would take the opportunity to be more precise--being overly general is my personal pet peeve anyway. :nova:

[Adora]

Er, I have to admit, I'd never encountered the word "Xian" before I came to IIDB, and when I first saw it I got weirded out because I thought the were referring to something Chinese. So when I found out what it meant, I thought it was stupid.

Who invented it anyway? If it was invented by atheists looking for an abusive term towards Christians, yeah, I think Christians have every right to be pissed off. I mean, unless they want to reclaim it and turn it into a term of pride.

I have a kick ass uber normal lass name.
Lass name? As in a woman's name?

Personally, I have trouble with the term "Christian" being used only to refer to fundies. It represents the same pattern conservatives create by taking words that refer to a very wide ranging discourse of something, and making it mean only one very narrow thing, such as "family" and "tradition", and as someone who loves the English language, I think it's shit and people shouldn't play into it.

I know, however, that Fundamentalists (referring specifically to the Protestant branches residing in the US that have grown over the last 20 years or so as a Backlash to 70s liberalism) are those which many Americans would have dominant interaction with. I think if I was in the same position as many US Infidels/Heathens/Atheists/Non-Theists/Green Llamas (just to cover all bases), I may have the same thought patterns that when someone says "Christian" they are refering to Fundies. I think, however, that if you do that, you're just buying into their conservative propaganda, and that you should really stop thinking like this if you claim you are opposed to them.

However, I've grown up in Australia where the dominant churches are Catholic (mostly the Irish/British Catholic derivative kind) and Anglican. So you say 'Christian' to me, I tend to think of those first, then things like Orthodox churches in Greece and Russia, then things like the main Church of England/ Episcopalians etc and then crazy-fuckoff-Fundies and similar smaller groups, like Uniting Church and Baptists (who kinda are/kinda aren't Fundies) and then Others, which covers things like Asian/Middle Eastern Catholic and Christian sects in places like the Phillipines and Palestine. I guess you could say I think of them by size, rather than those who get the most media attention :).

I also know a lot of christians. Note: no capital. I basically see these people as those who have grown up in a church of some sort (usually Catholic or Anglican in Australia) but aren't strongly spiritual people, haven't really pondered the universe much, and are just there because it's the done-thing in society, it's one of their community circles in life, and its just something they've never thought about hard. There's a lot of these people in Australia, because there's very few things we take seriously, and luckily, religion isn't one of them.

But yeah. "xian"? It's as stupid as x-mas and "Xtina" for shitty pop-stars.

[wade-w]

Like Adora, I had never seen the usage "xian" before I came to IIDB. At first, I thought of it as similar to "xmas," a simple abbreviation. Then I gradually realized that "xian" was most often used in a derogatory fashion, and I have pretty much eliminated it from my own use.

[godfry n. glad]

Hey... I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought it was some obscure Chinese reference.

And as for the christians reference....I grew up around what we called "coffee and donut" christians. They were there because of the coffee and donuts (and conversation) after the services. :yawn: ...zzzzzzzz...

godfry

(I've actually been to Xi'an...nice place.)