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D. Scarlatti
11-23-2004, 06:00 AM
This is kind of old news I guess, but I came across this informative page while doing a bit of research for a school assignment. The Bybee Memo was written for President Bush in August, 2002, by Jay S. Bybee, who is now seated on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, to legally define the upper thresholds of physical pain and mental anguish the U.S. could inflict on detainees in the "war on terror" without violating two international treaties outlawing torture and "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" to which the U.S. is a signatory.

The link has a good analysis of the memo itself, a .pdf file of which is available from the Washington Post. Anyway it's all pretty self explanatory.

There's also a link to Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzalez's January 25, 2002, memo to Bush discounting the State Department's concerns with Bush's attempt to exclude "Taliban" detainees in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay from prisoner of war status under the Third Geneva Convention, to which the U.S. is also a "high contracting party."

OLC's August 1, 2002 Torture Memo ("the Bybee Memo") (http://www.discourse.net/archives/2004/06/olcs_aug_1_2002_torture_memo_the_bybee_memo.html)

I'm arguing that the Abu Ghraib abuses are defensible from a "taking orders" perspective, since the policies in place, however misunderstood, misconstrued, and poorly implemented, are directly traceable to the administration's policy positions enunciated by its officials, particularly those in the Office of Legal Counsel like Gonzalez and Bybee.

ApostateAbe
11-23-2004, 06:33 AM
There may be better evidence on top of that. Have you seen this article (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact) from Seymour Hersh?

D. Scarlatti
11-23-2004, 03:27 PM
Thanks Abe - no, I hadn't seen it. That definitely came in handy.

livius drusus
11-23-2004, 03:37 PM
Blake compiled some good sources on the subject here (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=745), based on the Hersh articles.

D. Scarlatti
11-23-2004, 05:12 PM
Aha. I should have known there would have been something on this already. Thanks.

Well, I got a few laughs with my presentation and even got to quote Bob Dylan in arguing that the court had the wrong defendants (the soldiers in the photos) in custody:

Steal a little and they throw you in jail,
Steal a lot and they make you king.

I don't think the Yoo/Delahanty, Gonzalez, and Bybee memos just appeared in a vacuum. I doubt Jay Bybee cranked out a 50-page memo for something to do on a rainy Saturday afternoon. It seems pretty reasonable to infer that the administration at least contemplated these interrogation techniques, and certainly seemed to go out of their way to legally justify what on their face look like clear violations of international treaties in the event someone was found out and called on the carpet.

The Abu Ghraib photos shock the conscience on a visceral level but the tortured legal reasoning in the memos shocks it on an intellectual one. Even so I don't fault the attorneys anywhere near as much as their superiors in the Bush administration. Now they're making scapegoats of these ill-trained soldiers that volunteered to get sent to their ill-advised and ill-justified "war."

For their efforts of course the attorneys are all sitting in plum jobs today.