I lead a pro-lifer closer to the dark side

[ApostateAbe]

At the expense of my credibility, I convinced a strong pro-lifer at Christian Forums to be a little more pro-choice. Her CF name is aeroz19. She has these quotes in her signature: "Abortion is another act of violence against the woman."
~
"My rights end where my child's begin.
There's no way to weigh one person's life over another's."
~
"It's time for both sides to come together and say we
refuse to choose between women and children."
~
--Sally A. Winn, Vice President of Feminists for Life of AmericaWe live in the same city of Vancouver, WA, so that is how we got acquainted, but we still haven't actually met face to face. I tried to start a "Christian Forums Couve Club" last weekend with her and another guy, but she didn't want to do it, so it didn't work out.

Anyway, she started up a conversation on Yahoo! messenger last night, and it went like this:
aderz16: Hey [note: this is her]
aderz16: What
aderz16: s
aderz16: up
tiananman: nothing much [this is me]
aderz16: darnit lol messed up
tiananman: i am recruting people to my new organization
aderz16: still?
aderz16: What did you all do last time?
tiananman: yeah
tiananman: what last time?
tiananman: I just started it
aderz16: oh ok
aderz16: thought you all went somewhere over the weekend
tiananman: oh, not that organization
tiananman: that never worked out
aderz16: oh
aderz16: What are you working on now?
tiananman: People for the Uncorrupted Treatment of Zygotes
tiananman: I started a thread on it
tiananman: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=10576481&posted=1#post10576481 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=10576481&posted=1#post10576481) [read this thread]
tiananman: brb
aderz16: lol
aderz16: Have you lost it?
aderz16: Are you serious?
aderz16: You do realize what this is right?
tiananman: back
aderz16: A movement against sex, essentially
tiananman: no, it is against unprotected sex
aderz16: Well then that's basically against having babies the natural way
aderz16: YOu think everyone should go vitro?
tiananman: no, that is even more deadly
tiananman: you realize how many embryos they throw out?
aderz16: Just what is this anyway
aderz16: Are you trying to be funny?
tiananman: murder is no laughing matter
aderz16: You are pro-choice, right?
tiananman: um, that was my old me
aderz16: And now you are pro-life?
tiananman: yes
aderz16: militantly it seems
aderz16: And when did this happen?
aderz16: And how
tiananman: i was arguing against stem sell research
tiananman: and Christians were telling my that embryonic stem cell research kills human lives
tiananman: and I guess that kinda touched me
aderz16: ...and so now you are starting a group of people for this movement?
tiananman: yes
tiananman: would you like to join PUTZ?
aderz16: nope
tiananman: but you are pro-life too, right?
aderz16: "Little do they know that pregnancy comes at the cost of beating hearts. Even though they don't have a limp baby child in their arms, 55% of all fertilized eggs never reach it to day 7. And even if the child manages to make it through that gauntlet of death, 15% of them never make it to week 13 (source: GeneFaith.org). Reproduction kills."
aderz16: I don't think that you really believe this for a minute
tiananman: but those are facts!
aderz16: lol
tiananman: go to the link on GeneFaith.org
aderz16: You're an atheist, you don't have faith
tiananman: so?
aderz16: I'm checking out the site
aderz16: "A site for the Christian and the Scientist"
tiananman: yes
tiananman: I am neither
aderz16: I highly suspect that these are not facts but outright lies
tiananman: i'll try to see if i can verify them
aderz16: Who do you think you're fooling anyway? lol.
aderz16: I know better than to think that an atheist is going to listen to a bunch of Christians who have a far right extreme agenda
aderz16: AND to believe them
aderz16: AND convert to their thinking
aderz16: So what's up
aderz16: What's this all really about
tiananman: you have no faith in the human conscience
aderz16: You're starting to sound like...nevermind
aderz16: lol
tiananman: "It is estimated that twenty to fifty percent of all conceptions die before birth. Thirty percent, it is estimated, die before implantation."
aderz16: Look, you're acting pretty weird
aderz16: lol
tiananman: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-sum/q-life014.html (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-sum/q-life014.html)
tiananman: "As cited in John Jefferson Davis, Abortion and the Christian (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1984), p. 60. Cf. Thomas W. Hilgers, M.D., "Human Reproduction," Theological Studies 38 (1977), pp. 136-52."
aderz16: No, how about you go to a Science website and find that in a medical journal or something
aderz16: These people have an agenda
tiananman: i am trying
aderz16: like YECists
aderz16: "Say a prayer for each of those murdered zygotes and ask God to forgive you. Then make a pledge of $10 to PUTZ."
aderz16: Very funny
aderz16: I'm gonna put you on ignore soon
tiananman: i'll tell you when i get a scientific source for the chances of a zygote surviving
aderz16: Look, there are other ways to meet people
aderz16: than to try and form groups with ppl on CF
aderz16: Just get out
aderz16: do stuff
tiananman: i do that
tiananman: i seem to have the most fun online
aderz16: Yeah but does it last
tiananman: it sure does
tiananman: i have been doing it for years
aderz16: And so you figure that you will have the most fun with people you meet online, in real life?
tiananman: no, people are not always the same fun online as in real life
aderz16: I meant it the other wya
aderz16: wya
tiananman: for example, I am not nearly as much fun offline
aderz16: way
aderz16: argg
tiananman: whatever
aderz16: oh ok
aderz16: there we go
aderz16: Well you never know
aderz16: What do you like to do offline
tiananman: karate
aderz16: That's cool
tiananman: weight-lifting
tiananman: reading
aderz16: I always wanted to learn that
aderz16: reading is great
tiananman: cooking
aderz16: that too
aderz16: You know how to cook bread? heheheeh >:)
aderz16: from scratch?
tiananman: no, I never eat bread
tiananman: my roommate has a breadmaker that he will never use
aderz16: You never eat bread!!!
aderz16: :O
tiananman: almost never
aderz16: wow
tiananman: i am a meat eater
aderz16: I knew it!
aderz16: lol
aderz16: So what else do you do offline
tiananman: watch movies
tiananman: sleep
tiananman: eat
aderz16: lol
aderz16: stop there
tiananman: masturbate
tiananman: oops
aderz16: lol TMI [too much information]
aderz16: anyway
aderz16: So, yeah, most of that stuff fine. Nothing boring there
aderz16: Do you have a game system?
tiananman: no
tiananman: except on my comp
tiananman: wait, yes I do
tiananman: my roommate has one
tiananman: Dreamcast
tiananman: and he lets me play it
tiananman: i was addicted to one game
tiananman: played like Final Fantasy
tiananman: forget the name [it was Grandia]
aderz16: Yeah that's the name
aderz16: I've got a GameCube and N64
aderz16: They rule
aderz16: The games I like are Mario ones, Sonic ones, and a few others
aderz16: That might sound lame, but yeah, that's what I like
aderz16: :D
tiananman: what about the Zelda ones?
aderz16: Those are ok
aderz16: Banjo Tooie was good too
aderz16: And Banjo Kazooie
aderz16: <---geek
aderz16: :D
tiananman: I found it
tiananman: "The blastocyte continues the journey down the Fallopian tube and between the 7th and 9th day after conception, implants in the uterus. At this point in the mother's menstrual cycle the endometrium (the lining of the uterus) has grown, is highly vascular, and ready to support a fetus. The blastocyte burrows into the endometrium where it receives nourishment. The placenta and supporting infrastructure for pregnancy grow out of the implantation phase. It is estimated that up to 55% of zygotes never reach this phase of growth."
tiananman: http://www.healthcentral.com/peds/top/002398.cfm (http://www.healthcentral.com/peds/top/002398.cfm)
tiananman: brb
tiananman: back
aderz16: So, what this is saying then, is that many of us had lots of brothers and sisters (not twins) who never made it
tiananman: right
aderz16: Half the time sex occurs, a pregnancy is achieved, but it miscarriages
tiananman: over half
aderz16: yeah
aderz16: I'm estimating
aderz16: This is definitely something to consider
aderz16: Well, that certainly modifies my position on the unborn
aderz16: But I'm taking a tiny step left, not right
aderz16: lol
tiananman: well, at least you have an open mind
tiananman: besides, that is what I really intended, as you suspected
aderz16: Yea
aderz16: I knew you were up to something
aderz16: You're a die hard pro-choicer
aderz16: And you almost got ignored lol
aderz16: with all that carrying on you were doing
tiananman: as an aside, look up the word "putz"
aderz16: lol
aderz16: oh no
aderz16: ok
aderz16: I'll google it
aderz16: I'll bet it means sucker
tiananman: i recommend onelook.com
tiananman: it is a conglomeration of many dictionaries
tiananman: every word that has ever been spoken in the English language is in onelook.com
aderz16: It means idiot
aderz16: LOL
tiananman: i am going to bed
tiananman: must get up early
tiananman: good night
aderz16: nite
Despite her strong pro-life identity, she is now much more likely to support embryonic stem-cell research, morning after pills, and that sort of thing. And you can thank me.

[Goliath]

Indeed, I do thank you.

[Godless Dave]

Awesome. That is the most inconsistent part of the anti-abortion platform.

I noticed Aeroz a while back in the creation/evolution forum. She is willing to learn new things and challenge her beliefs. She has been fed a lot of propaganda - for example, that there are documented instances of people levitating - that she accepts as fact, and she naiively assumes that the people feeding it to her are sincere. She is only 19, I believe.

[livius drusus]

Good discussion, Abe. Although I have to say I'd be miffed if you posted a chatlog of ours without asking first. aeroz19, if you ever see this, you come off great. :yup:

[Shake]

Sounds like a pretty good encounter with an anti-choicer. Good job!

[Sycophant]

And yet no one actually told me where to send my $10 to -- PUTZ doesn't seem to have Paypal account.

[ApostateAbe]

And yet no one actually told me where to send my $10 to -- PUTZ doesn't seem to have Paypal account. I'll tell you where to send it after you have said those prayers.

[seebs]

Aeroz19 is a really cool person. She just recently found the Magic Cookie, and will be reasonable and cool now.

[Sycophant]

I'll tell you where to send it after you have said those prayers.
Prayers. Hmm.
Any guidance on that? I am a little out of practice.

Also, I think PUTZ needs a website.

How about aboutputz.info (http://www.aboutputz.info/)

[dave_a]

who the hell names their organization putz?

[viscousmemories]

who the hell names their organization putz?
Satirists?

[aeroz19]

Hey, there, people, just thought I'd show up at this moment. <sarcastic>Nice thread, Abe.</sarcastic>

Good thing I never agreed to meet you in person, hmm? You're on ignore on yahoo, by the way.

And as for taking credit for how much "you" changed "my" views, don't flatter yourself. Had I stumbled upon such simple facts myself, my own open mind would have taken in the info and I would have changed position accordingly.

[aeroz19]

Awesome. That is the most inconsistent part of the anti-abortion platform.

I noticed Aeroz a while back in the creation/evolution forum. She is willing to learn new things and challenge her beliefs. She has been fed a lot of propaganda - for example, that there are documented instances of people levitating - that she accepts as fact, and she naiively assumes that the people feeding it to her are sincere. She is only 19, I believe.

Yep, yep, gossip gossip gossip. Lots of it going on in this thread...

[aeroz19]

Good discussion, Abe. Although I have to say I'd be miffed if you posted a chatlog of ours without asking first. aeroz19, if you ever see this, you come off great. :yup:

Thanks. You are one of the few nice people here.

[livius drusus]

Hi aeroz19. I'm glad to see you here and apologize for my part in perpetuating gossip. If it's any consolation, the gossip speaks very highly of you.

I hope you have a great time here, rocky beginnings notwithstanding, and welcome to FF. :welcome2:

Edit: Woops. Wee bit of a crosspost there. Thank you for the kind words, aeroz, but I assure you there are many nice people here.* I hope you'll encounter a more positive interaction elsewhere on the board, and even this one may still end better than it began. I doubt Abe intented to anger you, for instance, but I'll leave that for him to discuss as he prefers.





*Except for the New Zealanders. And those midwestern bastards. Don't even get me started on the Californians and as for the UK contingent, well, I blame the weather. ;)

[seebs]

Welcome, Aeroz19!

If I may be so bold, I would suggest that you kick Abe's ass, and then give him another chance. He did something stupid, but I don't think he meant it to be nearly as asinine as it was.

[viscousmemories]

:welcome: to the FF, aeroz. FWIW I'd be a lot more pissed than you appear to be if someone posted a log of chat with me in a public forum. I hope you stick around, though.

[aeroz19]

Aeroz19 is a really cool person. She just recently found the Magic Cookie, and will be reasonable and cool now.

What's the magic cookie?

[aeroz19]

:welcome: to the FF, aeroz. FWIW I'd be a lot more pissed than you appear to be if someone posted a log of chat with me in a public forum. I hope you stick around, though.

Well, if Abe had been one of my friends and the content had been more personal, I'd be steaming.

[seebs]

Aeroz19 is a really cool person. She just recently found the Magic Cookie, and will be reasonable and cool now.

What's the magic cookie?

Salvation. (http://www.seebs.net/log/archives/000188.html)

There is a thing which happens to people, which causes them to stop being afraid of the possibility that the truth will be a little strange, and makes them kind, and compassionate, and willing to learn. It seems to have happened to you some time in the last year or so.

At this point, it doesn't matter what exactly you end up believing; you will be unafraid to ask tough questions, and you will be compassionate to those around you. You found the magic cookie. It's all good.

[ApostateAbe]

Uh oh, now I am the subject of embarassment. That's just like seebs to do a thing like that. Aeroz, he told you to come here and unload the guilt-trip grenades, didn't he?

[Roland98]

And those midwestern bastards.

Hey!! I resemble that remark.


Welcome to the board, aeroz. :wave: Even we midwesterners aren't too bad. Most of the time. Okay, occasionally. :)


And yeah, I'd be ticked too.

[seebs]

Uh oh, now I am the subject of embarassment. That's just like seebs to do a thing like that. Aeroz, he told you to come here and unload the guilt-trip grenades, didn't he?

Nah. I have a general policy that I don't try to bust people or tell on 'em. If I'd thought about it, I might have encouraged you to come clean yourself, but I generally leave that as a personal moral decision, rather than making it for people.

[ApostateAbe]

It must have been sycophant, the dirty bastard.

[ApostateAbe]

Sycophant, you registered a URL? That's a very sweet gesture. I won't be making a website because I don't have the motivation. In the past, I planned several times to make a website but I never followed through.

[Sycophant]

Sycophant, you registered a URL? That's a very sweet gesture. I won't be making a website because I don't have the motivation. In the past, I planned several times to make a website but I never followed through.

Dotster has been trying for a month to get me to register .info domain names by making them free. So I did.

[Sycophant]

It must have been sycophant, the dirty bastard.
Not me. Zoot is a sneaky little bugger though, he could have done it. Although I don't know if he's even seen this thread. That doesn't absolve him, however.

[Godless Dave]

Yep, yep, gossip gossip gossip. Lots of it going on in this thread...

It's what I do best. But remember, Christian Forums is a public site; anything you post there can be read by anyone in the world, so it shouldn't be surprising that people elsewhere might read and discuss it.

[livius drusus]

Yeah, but chatlogs aren't.

[Godless Dave]

I was only defending myself. Abe's on his own.

[livius drusus]

Fair enough, Dave. :)

Abe, why didn't you just tell aeroz up front that you wanted to post the log and make a thread about her? I mean, even just from a totally amoral practical angle, what are the odds that she wouldn't find out?

[wei yau]

*Except for the New Zealanders. And those midwestern bastards. Don't even get me started on the Californians and as for the UK contingent, well, I blame the weather. ;)

Yes!

I'm not in that group! Hurrah for Virginia!

And welcome aboard aeroz, hope you enjoy your stay.

[livius drusus]

Oh yeah, I forgot about those Southern fuckers. Damn us! Damn us all to hell! :shakefist:

[aeroz19]

Uh oh, now I am the subject of embarassment. That's just like seebs to do a thing like that. Aeroz, he told you to come here and unload the guilt-trip grenades, didn't he?

I thought it was seebs too, but he denied it.

Oh well. It doesn't matter anyway. I'll be spending a lot less time here, as I now have 2 jobs and more of a life in real life.

But I will be spending a lot of time here in the fantasy (online) world a lot this summer, just like last summer. See you all later (not Abe).

[dave_a]

OK, so I still want to understand why someone would name an organization PUTZ.

BTW Abe, I can relate to what you are going through. I posted here awhile back about someone and they read what I wrote. Wasn't intended to be offensive to them, it was just me wanting to talk to someone about something.

It's one of the reasons I never say anything personal here anymore. Just ain't worth it with those damn google spiders. In your case it looks like you got dimed out from the inside though. That's rough.

[viscousmemories]

Respecting people's privacy can be a real inconvenience, eh? :D

[dave_a]

Respecting people's privacy can be a real inconvenience, eh? :D

I dunno, ask the google spiders that one :P

I never really thought that talking about someone online was any worse than talking about someone in real life. Surely everyone here has wanted to discuss something that involved another person without that person knowing what was being said. It isn't always evil.

There is the kind of gossip that aims to defame a person for petty reasons, then there is simply sharing life experiences and seeking advice on how to deal with personalities we encounter.

I don't consider the latter gossip or not respecting a person's privacy.

In a way I would say whomever dimed Abe out has comitted the worse sin. The only thing that I am unsure about is the fact that some here appear to have known the person he was talking about which might cross a line.

And I still want to know why the hell someone would name their organization PUTZ.

[ApostateAbe]

OK, so I still want to understand why someone would name an organization PUTZ.I was inspired by Rush Limbaugh. Several years back, he fooled many of his listeners for one week into thinking that he was starting an organization called, "Keep Our Own Kids Safe," which discourages soccer among children because it is dangerous. He meant to spoof the anti-smoking hysteria among the left. One of his gullible callers thought that the organization was a great idea, but she was concerned about the name because "it stands for KOOKS!" That was the height of amusement for the Limbaugh show, and it started to go downhill in entertainment value after that.

[dave_a]

OK, so I still want to understand why someone would name an organization PUTZ.I was inspired by Rush Limbaugh. Several years back, he fooled many of his listeners for one week into thinking that he was starting an organization called, "Keep Our Own Kids Safe," which discourages soccer among children because it is dangerous. He meant to spoof the anti-smoking hysteria among the left. One of his gullible callers thought that the organization was a great idea, but she was concerned about the name because "it stands for KOOKS!" That was the height of amusement for the Limbaugh show, and it started to go downhill in entertainment value after that.

Ah, I get it, thanks.

[Sweetie]

Respecting people's privacy can be a real inconvenience, eh? :D

I dunno, ask the google spiders that one :P

I never really thought that talking about someone online was any worse than talking about someone in real life. Surely everyone here has wanted to discuss something that involved another person without that person knowing what was being said. It isn't always evil.

My husband has two major secrets, one he made sure I knew before we got serious and another he couldn't bring himself to tell me for literally years and years. The first one, when I was young and stupid and mad at him I repeated it to a friend. She is no longer a friend and I live in fear that she told others, and that they look at him badly because of it. I literally live in fear of her, knowledge is power. The second one I repeated to an uninterested third party because I was so upset by it, I trust this third party. It would probably decimate me to have the confidence betrayed because it's not necessarily me I'm protecting, but my husband's good name, to avoid it being dragged through the mud, to avoid that everytime they look at him they immediately think of that and that's all they can see, that they use it as a frame of reference to view him because they would. I don't know if I could trust again. All I know is that I can't tell anybody the first secret, not anybody ever again, and because of that I can keep it. The second, it's not my secret but I have to live with it and so I struggle between telling someone else for the sake of talking about it because I need to even if he doesn't or risking him, something that he could barely bear to have his wife see so obviously something he couldn't bear to have the world see. What a shitty thing. I have a terrible time keeping secrets anyways, which just makes things really hard on me. I prefer to live in the open unless I have something I need to protect which takes precedence.

All I know is that it could never be said in public, it's why I say private things in private, so that they not be made public. Letting people close to me see what I write in public makes me sweat, but it's not too bad because I'm always conscious that someone else might be reading. Having them see what I say in private makes me shake. I usually settle for hypotheticals when discussing other people in my life kinda like a doctor who must keep a patient's confidence by law, but yet might need to discuss some of his dealings with the patient because it relates to his own stress, so if he is going to talk to anybody about it, he has to disguise the person well enough that they not be recognizable which would be illegal and talk about events, not people. I think that's pretty safe and also fair.

[viscousmemories]

I never really thought that talking about someone online was any worse than talking about someone in real life. Surely everyone here has wanted to discuss something that involved another person without that person knowing what was being said. It isn't always evil.

There is the kind of gossip that aims to defame a person for petty reasons, then there is simply sharing life experiences and seeking advice on how to deal with personalities we encounter.

I don't consider the latter gossip or not respecting a person's privacy.
I agree. I would never suggest that talking about someone behind their back is always a bad thing, but for the most part I avoid doing it on a public (or even semi-public, like HH) discussion board. The chance of the person reading it and feeling violated is enough to make me not want to do it.

In a way I would say whomever dimed Abe out has comitted the worse sin.
Huh, I don't see it that way at all. In my opinion aeroz19 had every right to know that the log of a private discussion she had with someone was posted in a public forum. If I knew her I would've told her myself. Abe is far from the victim here.

[dave_a]

Huh, I don't see it that way at all. In my opinion aeroz19 had every right to know that the log of a private discussion she had with someone was posted in a public forum. If I knew her I would've told her myself. Abe is far from the victim here.

Yes, that's why I said that a line appeared to be crossed in that some here knew her.

If I were to tell you about this online person I knew who goes by stupidperson1 (fictional user name) who would care? Does anyone here know this individual online or in real life that is on this board?

Where Abe's post crossed a line is that he posted info about a person some knew. Whether or not he knew this I don't know.

I also don't see the difference between Abe posting a chat log and others who talk about their friends, lovers or family members.

It goes without saying that those speaking of other people don't intend for the subject of their post to read the post.

That's the bitch about the net and public forums, particularly those indexed by search engines.

It *feels* like you are talking to a limitted group of people when you may as well be saying your piece in a half time commercial during the superbowl.

[Sweetie]

Yes, that's why I said that a line appeared to be crossed in that some here knew her.

What line would that be then? I'm the type of person myself that if someone claims to be my friend but would witness that and not tell me and play along with the others, then they should cease to call themself my friend. If they know her then for a certainty they should feel obliged to tell her, especially if they know her. To me that's like a friend knowing my husband was cheating but not saying anything. That's a severe and more important case, but I think it would still feel similar. I've only had something like that happen to me once and that's just from a chatting session (not the cheating part), and I did feel offended and violated.

If I were to tell you about this online person I knew who goes by stupidperson1 (fictional user name) who would care? Does anyone here know this individual online or in real life that is on this board?

As much of a fantasy world the online world can be, there are still alot of things to take personally. What if she has a life online that she enjoys? It's just as social as anything in real life and to many is just as personal. As weird as that is, it's true and the same rules need apply. We have had some obvious examples of that here.

But hey, for a certainty you will never get to see my "boobies." :D Putting nude pictures out there would be the same thing for me. If I want the whole world and my children and family to see, well ok. If I don't, don't risk it.

It *feels* like you are talking to a limitted group of people when you may as well be saying your piece in a half time commercial during the superbowl.

It feels like this social interaction is important to me, for instance. It feels like there is still popularity contests and things like that. It feels like the walls have ears, so I be wary but a little less wary in one-on-one private chatting.

[Sweetie]

The "boobies" part was for datonac, he'd know what I was referring to :D . I thought dave-a was datonac, is he? :chin:

[dave_a]

]Yes, that's why I said that a line appeared to be crossed in that some here knew her.

What line would that be then?

The line where a person is identifiable to others. If I read something you wrote and wanted to discuss it with someone other than you and took it to a regional fishing board would you care? It is unlikely because you would never know and nobody I talk about you with would know you. In the same way if you post something I feel like talking about with my wife or friends or coworkers why would you care? You don't know them and they don't know you. It is when the person under discussion is recognizable to those in the conversation that I think a line is crossed. This can occur on purpose or accidently.


As much of a fantasy world the online world can be, there are still alot of things to take personally. What if she has a life online that she enjoys? It's just as social as anything in real life and to many is just as personal. As weird as that is, it's true and the same rules need apply. We have had some obvious examples of that here.

That's true, but the person Abe wrote of I don't know. Some others do, but I don't. Had I run into her on some web place I wouldn't have made the connection.

But hey, for a certainty you will never get to see my "boobies."

:sadcheer:

It feels like this social interaction is important to me, for instance. It feels like there is still popularity contests and things like that. It feels like the walls have ears, so I be wary but a little less wary in one-on-one private chatting.

So if I engage you in 1 on 1 chat I get to see your boobies then??? :D

[Sweetie]

The line where a person is identifiable to others. If I read something you wrote and wanted to discuss it with someone other than you and took it to a regional fishing board would you care? It is unlikely because you would never know and nobody I talk about you with would know you. In the same way if you post something I feel like talking about with my wife or friends or coworkers why would you care? You don't know them and they don't know you. It is when the person under discussion is recognizable to those in the conversation that I think a line is crossed. This can occur on purpose or accidently.

That makes more sense, thank-you for clarifying.

That's true, but the person Abe wrote of I don't know. Some others do, but I don't. Had I run into her on some web place I wouldn't have made the connection.

I don't know her either but it took me several times trying to read her name that it occured to me that "aeroz" says "arrows." :D
So if I engage you in 1 on 1 chat I get to see your boobies then??? :D

Let me ask you this then. How should I feel if I felt you were a good friend, we were close online, and I had feelings for you or was trying to entice you and decided to give you picture of me nude but it was just meant for your eyes only, then you go somewhere else where nobody knows me, or only people that frequent the same forums, but you name me, my username on Yahoo for instance and then post that picture? Should I be upset by that? What if you said something like, "I led this girl to the dark-side, look at what I got from her." Isn't that just crude as hell?

[pescifish]

I also don't see the difference between Abe posting a chat log and others who talk about their friends, lovers or family members.Talking about someone is not the same as creating and distributing a video or audio recording of that person's actions or conversation without their knowledge and approval. Posting a chatlog is not talking about someone, it is recording a conversation and distributing that recording.

[Sweetie]

Wait! Let's take the picture analogy and say this.

I give you a nude picture in private, you go somewhere else and post it and say "for an easy target," or "look what I accomplished" or better yet "for a hot time [this] is a cool girl" in the meantime I'm thinking that you are a cool guy and someone who I can talk to and who I'm thinking of meeting. Knowing that makes me realize what an asshole you are. I deserve to know it and by knowing it I feel used and violated.

[wade-w]

What Pesci said.

[dave_a]

What Pesci said.

Ok, after further reflection I agree with you all.

And yes, Sweetie, Dave_A is Dantonac. I asked Liv to change my name last night. Ironically the reason I requested she do that was to better preserve my online privacy :D

Dantonac is fairly unique and therefore googleable with ease. Dave_A is so common that I can hide in plain sight.

Now, about that boobie pic :P You are such a teaser.

[Beth]

What Pesci said.

Ok, after further reflection I agree with you all.

And yes, Sweetie, Dave_A is Dantonac. I asked Liv to change my name last night. Ironically the reason I requested she do that was to better preserve my online privacy :D

Dantonac is fairly unique and therefore googleable with ease. Dave_A is so common that I can hide in plain sight.

Now, about that boobie pic :P You are such a teaser.
I would suggest that you stop referring to yourself with your old name as well in future posts. I gave a SN I have in another forum in here once and after I googled the name, I found my post in here. I have my own reasons why my privacy is very, very important.

[Sweetie]

Now, about that boobie pic :P You are such a teaser.

LOL, and you my dear, are such a suck. :wink: I don't get you guys though, pornography is a dime a dozen. :chin:

Actually, I did go out on Halloween and I did dress up but I dressed up '80's, kind of disco, crimped hair, severe make-up. Unfortunately, because of the make-up and the dark light when the picture was taken the head shot was terrible, but I can salvage the tits just for you, and just temporarily. :chuckle: I was gonna go braless, but I thought better of it. :D

[Sweetie]

Oops, I think you missed out. :P

[seebs]

I saw 'em.

Now, this leaves me with a social quandry: Dealing with a married Catholic, should I compare these favorably or unfavorably to other boobs?

[ApostateAbe]

I saw 'em.

Now, this leaves me with a social quandry: Dealing with a married Catholic, should I compare these favorably or unfavorably to other boobs?I'd choose unfavorably.

[wade-w]

Damn, Abe. That was seriously uncalled for.

[ApostateAbe]

Damn, Abe. That was seriously uncalled for.I know, but that doesn't stop me, as usual.

[pescifish]

Damn, Abe. That was seriously uncalled for.I know, but that doesn't stop me, as usual.Is that supposed to be funny? Cute and adorable just like your pedophile ratings on the recipes?

I suspect you are simply being truthful, though. You know it's uncalled for and yet you do it anyway. I can't figure out who disgusts me more, Abe--you for your dehumanizing creepass behavior, or the people who support you even though you continue to exhibit it, even toward members of this community. :sadcheer:

People so fucking suck. I'm sure you'll go far in this world, Abe.

[ApostateAbe]

Damn, Abe. That was seriously uncalled for.I know, but that doesn't stop me, as usual.Is that supposed to be funny? Cute and adorable just like your pedophile ratings on the recipes?

I suspect you are simply being truthful, though. You know it's uncalled for and yet you do it anyway. I can't figure out who disgusts me more, Abe--you for your dehumanizing creepass behavior, or the people who support you even though you continue to exhibit it, even toward members of this community. :sadcheer:

People so fucking suck. I'm sure you'll go far in this world, Abe.That's sad. You need some thicker skin. Even when I'm gone, there are still going to be people like me, and so it pays to develop your character so that your spirits are high even in the faces of assholes. In this thread, I have been strung through a long gauntlet of abuse, and yet I still don't let that kill my spirits.

[pescifish]

That's sad. You need some thicker skin. Even when I'm gone, there are still going to be people like me, and so it pays to develop your character so that your spirits are high even in the faces of assholes. Don't be sad. I like my skin to crawl when I encounter someone creepy; it's a good safety meter. In this thread, I have been strung through a long gauntlet of abuse, and yet I still don't let that kill my spirits.I don't know if this thread could be characterized as "a long gauntlet of abuse" toward you. However, if not letting it "kill your spirits" means that you don't see a problem with doing something hurtful to another member of the community, then, once again, I'm glad that my "creep meter" is tweaked.

[livius drusus]

In this thread, I have been strung through a long gauntlet of abuse, and yet I still don't let that kill my spirits.

A long gauntlet of abuse? I don't even see a single instance of it. Then again, perhaps my skin is thicker than yours. :shrug:

[ApostateAbe]

That's sad. You need some thicker skin. Even when I'm gone, there are still going to be people like me, and so it pays to develop your character so that your spirits are high even in the faces of assholes. Don't be sad. I like my skin to crawl when I encounter someone creepy; it's a good safety meter. In this thread, I have been strung through a long gauntlet of abuse, and yet I still don't let that kill my spirits.I don't know if this thread could be characterized as "a long gauntlet of abuse" toward you. However, if not letting it "kill your spirits" means that you don't see a problem with doing something hurtful to another member of the community, then, once again, I'm glad that my "creep meter" is tweaked.Can you tell me more about this creep meter thing? It is something I don't have.

[dave_a]

Oops, I think you missed out. :P

Indeed I did. My loss. I would ask you to do it again, pretty please, but given Abe's mind bogglingly shitty response I don't think I will.

It is the thought that counts after all and your showing me, even though I didn't see, was a very kind and deliciously naughty thought.

[ApostateAbe]

In this thread, I have been strung through a long gauntlet of abuse, and yet I still don't let that kill my spirits.
A long gauntlet of abuse? I don't even see a single instance of it. Then again, perhaps my skin is thicker than yours. :shrug:Well, it is subjective. What I see as attacks on my character are seen by others as something else. It isn't about thick skin, really. When you have thick skin, you can perceive verbal attacks, but it doesn't affect you emotionally. It is not about being blind about attacks.

[livius drusus]

So you see this thread as a series of attacks on your character? That seems inaccurate, particularly considering your lack of response to the questions - not assumptions, but questions - about your intent/reasoning in posting the chatlog without permission.

[ApostateAbe]

So you see this thread as a series of attacks on your character? That seems inaccurate, particularly considering your lack of response to the questions - not assumptions, but questions - about your intent/reasoning in posting the chatlog without permission.I don't understand that logic.

[Sweetie]

My skin is pretty thick, I mean it. :yup: It just depends who you are and if I value your opinion or not. Some people could rip out my heart and others could throw knives and I wouldn't feel 'em, in fact I'd probably just laugh or be annoyed at how unfortunate things have to be with people being so miserable.

Don't worry about me, I'm a big girl. I don't dish it out if I can't take it, there is no lesson my Mom taught me better than that one. :D I don't put anything out there if I'm not wiling to risk censure or a few arrows. In some cases it could be said that I thrive on controversy. I can take it Abe, whatcha got? :whup: How about I start? You are a fundamentalist. :P *nananananana* :pokes:

I will clarify something though, in case you are wondering, I guess seebs had something else on his mind. :D Yes, I am a theist unfortunately. My problem with identifying myself as such is all the stereotypes that are attached to it. Just so you know, I'm not here in a theist capacity nor am I a stereotypical theist, I have a brain and a sex life and a sense of humor and I'm sorry to burn your ears but sometimes I even have a dirty mind. :eek: :P

I'm just a person and that's all I'm here to be, hope I'm not thought of or treated differently because of the above which is what I would've been trying to avoid so as to not mention that little detail. I like mind games, I like flirting, I like teasing, in fact I'd be dead if I did not, I'm quite sure. I like people, I like friends, I like good conversation. I have no interest in everybody having to agree with me, I could care less which just means that I have no interest in evangelization or defending theism. Everything I say will be filtered through a preconceived notion now, it can't be just that I have a thought which I want to talk about without it having to be something else before this thought can just "be." If I bring up Communism it must be because I'm a biased Christian. There is no possibility of that thought having any validity outside of my own bias, or so some think. :sadcheer: I agree with atheists about alot of things if that's any consolation.

So what were we talking about again? Oh, back to dave_a. So, what you got to trade? :P

[Sweetie]

I saw 'em.

Now, this leaves me with a social quandry: Dealing with a married Catholic, should I compare these favorably or unfavorably to other boobs?

Favorably. :D You're a smart man, you know how us Catholic girls are. :wink:

[livius drusus]

I don't understand that logic.

Well, it seems to me if there was any gauntlet here it was people asking you to clarify your intent and thought processes. The only person who was even slightly snippy with you (until pesci took you on just now) was the person whose correspondence you published without her knowledge, and she just told you she wasn't going to be your patsy anymore.

In other words, unless you're talking about the questions you ignored, I don't see any gauntlet; and since you ignored them - thereby avoiding any actual discussion of your character - I don't see how you could possibly construe it to have been attacked.

[dave_a]

Yes, I am a theist unfortunately. My problem with identifying myself as such is all the stereotypes that are attached to it.

My wife is also a theist, I have no problem with that. I don't claim to understand liberal theism that tosses out pretty much the entirety of orthodoxy and the written scripture while still holding to the label, but to each their own.

So what were we talking about again? Oh, back to dave_a. So, what you got to trade? :P

Whatya mean? I had my nekkid pic posted here for you to see for a little bit. Didn't you see it? Oh well, I guess it is your turn again :D

[beyelzu]

who the hell names their organization putz?
Satirists?
:qlol: :bow: :bow:

someone had to say it.

[ApostateAbe]

I don't understand that logic.
Well, it seems to me if there was any gauntlet here it was people asking you to clarify your intent and thought processes. The only person who was even slightly snippy with you (until pesci took you on just now) was the person whose correspondence you published without her knowledge, and she just told you she wasn't going to be your patsy anymore.

In other words, unless you're talking about the questions you ignored, I don't see any gauntlet; and since you ignored them - thereby avoiding any actual discussion of your character - I don't see how you could possibly construe it to have been attacked. OK, livius, just to fulfill your curiosity, here are many of the things that I see as attacks on my character, but perhaps you don't. I don't normally like to talk about such things, and I have no need for it this time except for you.
He did something stupid, but I don't think he meant it to be nearly as asinine as it was.
Abe is far from the victim here.
Where Abe's post crossed a line is that he posted info about a person some knew. Whether or not he knew this I don't know.
Let me ask you this then. How should I feel if I felt you were a good friend, we were close online, and I had feelings for you or was trying to entice you and decided to give you picture of me nude but it was just meant for your eyes only, then you go somewhere else where nobody knows me, or only people that frequent the same forums, but you name me, my username on Yahoo for instance and then post that picture? Should I be upset by that? What if you said something like, "I led this girl to the dark-side, look at what I got from her." Isn't that just crude as hell?
Posting a chatlog is not talking about someone, it is recording a conversation and distributing that recording.
Wait! Let's take the picture analogy and say this.

I give you a nude picture in private, you go somewhere else and post it and say "for an easy target," or "look what I accomplished" or better yet "for a hot time [this] is a cool girl" in the meantime I'm thinking that you are a cool guy and someone who I can talk to and who I'm thinking of meeting. Knowing that makes me realize what an asshole you are. I deserve to know it and by knowing it I feel used and violated. Now perhaps you think that they aren't really attacks on my character because they are justified. But, the way I see it, the question of whether or not they are justified is unrelated. Even if I fully deserve them (which I do), they are still attacks on me. I don't know for sure if that is where the disagreement stems from, but I think that might be it. If not, well, like I said, the matter is subjective. I think it has little to do with me avoiding questions. The only questions that I could find that I failed to answer are yours. And if you must know the answer, then the answer is that I made a poor judgment.

[ApostateAbe]

My skin is pretty thick, I mean it. :yup: It just depends who you are and if I value your opinion or not. Some people could rip out my heart and others could throw knives and I wouldn't feel 'em, in fact I'd probably just laugh or be annoyed at how unfortunate things have to be with people being so miserable.

Don't worry about me, I'm a big girl. I don't dish it out if I can't take it, there is no lesson my Mom taught me better than that one. :D I don't put anything out there if I'm not wiling to risk censure or a few arrows. In some cases it could be said that I thrive on controversy. I can take it Abe, whatcha got? :whup: How about I start? You are a fundamentalist. :P *nananananana* :pokes:

I will clarify something though, in case you are wondering, I guess seebs had something else on his mind. :D Yes, I am a theist unfortunately. My problem with identifying myself as such is all the stereotypes that are attached to it. Just so you know, I'm not here in a theist capacity nor am I a stereotypical theist, I have a brain and a sex life and a sense of humor and I'm sorry to burn your ears but sometimes I even have a dirty mind. :eek: :P

I'm just a person and that's all I'm here to be, hope I'm not thought of or treated differently because of the above which is what I would've been trying to avoid so as to not mention that little detail. I like mind games, I like flirting, I like teasing, in fact I'd be dead if I did not, I'm quite sure. I like people, I like friends, I like good conversation. I have no interest in everybody having to agree with me, I could care less which just means that I have no interest in evangelization or defending theism. Everything I say will be filtered through a preconceived notion now, it can't be just that I have a thought which I want to talk about without it having to be something else before this thought can just "be." If I bring up Communism it must be because I'm a biased Christian. There is no possibility of that thought having any validity outside of my own bias, or so some think. :sadcheer: I agree with atheists about alot of things if that's any consolation.

So what were we talking about again? Oh, back to dave_a. So, what you got to trade? :PGood for you. I do believe we would all get along better if we stopped being so sensitive, or at least my life would be easier. The truth is that I don't think your rack compares so unfavorably after all, but I can't pass by a crude and offensive joke. There was too much blouse in that picture to make any good judgment about your knockers, except that they aren't fat, which is one point on the plus side.

[wade-w]

Abe, do you really consider calling you on questionable behavior a personal attack?

[ApostateAbe]

Abe, do you really consider calling you on questionable behavior a personal attack?Yes.

[seebs]

Y'know, what's interesting is... Nearly every theist I know can laugh at, or even make, dirty jokes... So why is the stereotype the other way?

(oops, sweeetie and I seem to be digressing. No complaints from me if someone were to split this line of inquiry off.)

[Sweetie]

(oops, sweeetie and I seem to be digressing. No complaints from me if someone were to split this line of inquiry off.)

Oh c'mon. Talking about my boobs is much more fun than talking about the OP. :D

Actually, in ApostateAbe's defense, it sounds like youthful enthusiasm. I don't think he understands that we are protecting ourselves by disagreeing with how the OP was done. None of us would be happy seeing our chatlog up there, with our names and our conversations. I think he did so unthinkingly.

Did I lose my right to a valuable opinion though, by declaring myself a theist? :D

[Sweetie]

My wife is also a theist,

And my husband is a non-theist. Compromise and respect are good things to live by, Viva la revolution! My philosophy is that if I can only get along with people who agree with me, then there is something wrong with me.

*cough, choke, sputter* Yuck, I sound like a hippy. :eek: :D

Actually, you said something once that I've only ever heard my husband say before. :D Kewl!

[livius drusus]

Well, Abe has admitted to poor judgement in crafting his OP, so your assessment that he posted the chatlog without thinking seems to be pretty much in line with what he and others have suggested.

On the other hand, I still don't get why he wouldn't just cop to it right off the bat and apologize for his admitted carelessness. I suppose if you think that criticism of your behavior is an attack on your character, you're probably not all that likely to respond well to it.

I think it's a shame, particularly since aeroz seems like a fine person. I think I would have enjoyed her regular participation here. :deepsigh:

[wade-w]

Did I lose my right to a valuable opinion though, by declaring myself a theist? :D

I certainly hope not!

[dave_a]

Actually, you said something once that I've only ever heard my husband say before. :D Kewl!

There you go teasing again. I suppose you are going to tell me what he said, but only post it for a coupla hours while I am offline? :D :P

[livius drusus]

Hey, I just had a thought. What if Sweetie is your wife, dave? :giggle:

[dave_a]

Hey, I just had a thought. What if Sweetie is your wife, dave? :giggle:

Hehe, wouldn't that be something. My wife does have a pair of sweat pants with the word "Sweet" written on the ass.

Sweetie, you got any sweat pants like that?????