Pessimist or Optimist?

[Dingfod]

The thread on atheism and negativity (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1159) brought to mind a diametrically opposed view that I hold. I tend toward negativism, cynicism, and pessimism in regard to other people and pretend that I am toward my own life. My actions betray that philosophy though. I've stumbled through life without any sort of a plan or career path, bouncing from place to place, job to job, always with the confidence that everything would turn out fine, and it has, really. I placed almost all my investments into company stock, believing that I would retire rich like all the other fellow employees that retired prior to 2000, then only to have it decimated by Enron-like shennanigans on the part of corporate management. I also raised my children with the greatest possible outlook that everything would turn out for the best, that is why the problems with our eldest offspring have hurt so much.

So, how is it I can hold such a positive view of my own outcomes and such a negative view of those of the world? Do any of you also live with this contradiction? Or, is it just a human trait and I've just been ignorant that many others hold similar views?

[Sweetie]

The thread on atheism and negativity (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1159) brought to mind a diametrically opposed view that I hold. I tend toward negativism, cynicism, and pessimism in regard to other people and pretend that I am toward my own life. My actions betray that philosophy though. I've stumbled through life without any sort of a plan or career path, bouncing from place to place, job to job, always with the confidence that everything would turn out fine, and it has, really. I placed almost all my investments into company stock, believing that I would retire rich like all the other fellow employees that retired prior to 2000, then only to have it decimated by Enron-like shennanigans on the part of corporate management. I also raised my children with the greatest possible outlook that everything would turn out for the best, that is why the problems with our eldest offspring have hurt so much.

Perhaps you were an optimist with your hopes but unrealistic with your expectations, didn't prepare yourself for the worst.

I'm preparing for an all-out war with my children, for instance, but I'm hopeful of my success. Two of my children are rather tame and level-headed but stubborn, the other is just going to be fun fun fun when her Mommy takes a privelege away. She is just like her mother, poor me to have to be inflicted with myself. :D

So, how is it I can hold such a positive view of my own outcomes and such a negative view of those of the world? Do any of you also live with this contradiction? Or, is it just a human trait and I've just been ignorant that many others hold similar views?

I hold a positive view of possible expectations, but also am realistic about my expectations and therefore, prepare for the worst so I don't know if we're the same in that regard.

I've never tried to define myself in those terms before though, but I think I might be considered to be a pragmatist.

[godfry n. glad]

I'm with you, Warn.

Murphy's Law (with all its corollaries) prevails.

godfry

[LadyShea]

I just work hard to get the outcome I want but otherwise assume "what will be will be" if it's out of my hands. I sometimes have crazy high hopes or fear impending doom, but not often.

[maddog]

My mom always used to say:

An optimist is one who believes that this is the best of all possible worlds.

The pessimist is afraid he's right!

#116

[livius drusus]

You know, I honestly have no idea how to answer this poll. Sometimes I'm a reverse Warren: negative view of my own outcomes but a positive view of those of the world. It shifts, though; enough so I just can't pick one of the options.

[Dingfod]

You know, I honestly have no idea how to answer this poll. Sometimes I'm a reverse Warren: negative view of my own outcomes but a positive view of those of the world. It shifts, though; enough so I just can't pick one of the options.Same here, especially when it comes to tasks I'm to complete myself. I didn't trust my Toyota Landcruiser for about 4000 miles after I did the engine overhaul myself. Eventually, it proved that I not only did an good job, but an excellent one, it no longer burned any oil nor leaked any. But there was that pessimism.

But, where it counts, retirement savings, and child-rearing, I had utmost confidence that I was doing the right thing. I was wrong, I should've had just as many doubts and fears about that as anything else I attempt.

[Adora]

Pragmatic pessimist.

I can see the other side, I just don't care.

[WinAce]

"A pessimist is never disappointed."
--Jack Cleary

"I have had dreams and I have had nightmares, but I have conquered my nightmares because of my dreams."
--Dr. Jonas Salk

Paradoxically, I might have as many, or more, reasons for both pessimism and optimism as anyone on this forum. So I tend to combine the two. I look forward to the future, while staying focused on realities. The way I see it, there's no point beating yourself up over Bad Things(TM) that may or may not occur. It'll only cut down on the enjoyment you get out of life before they strike. If they don't, you'll have wasted valuable time and cuddling-energy needlessly worrying... and if they do, you might as well enjoy what you get to the full extent, too.

At the same time, I don't let myself get lost in pipe dreams enough that I'll lose out on the realities. I figure, don't expect anything that you don't already have, so you get pleasantly surprised if it does, and not too disappointed when it doesn't. And don't let a defeatist attitude make you lose sight of actions that might help achieve your goals.

From my experience, this balance is the best of both worlds. Should I call it "cautious optimism" or "upbeat pessimism"?

[Desert Dweller]

Warrenly I can't help but wonder if the answer lies in I've stumbled through life without any sort of a plan or career path, bouncing from place to place, job to job, always with the confidence that everything would turn out fine, and it has, really.

What's wrong with that?

[Dingfod]

Nothing really. I just admire people that had a plan and carried it out, achieving success, prosperity, and/or happiness in the process. I've always had trouble imaging my own future, but I always figured everything would be okay because I'm resilient and capable. However, more recently, due to the political powers that be threaten the safety net known as Social Security and the decline in value of my financial portfolio, my outlook for my declining years has begun to look just like that, declining. It seems like I'll either be working until I die or I'll be living in a refrigerator carton, begging for food in a Scroogian world. My eldest daughter and her baby's future is far from a rosy picture at this point. My marriage is a rocky road and probably headed for the end in the not too distant future. No, it seems like my personal optimism has turned a corner down a dark alley in the bad part of town, run out of gas and has a tire going flat.

[livius drusus]

Welcome to FF, onthedole. I love your avatar. :welcome:

Oh, erm... Right. The topic. Yes. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I think you'll have fun here. :optimist:

[Dingfod]

... It seems like I'll either be working until I die or I'll be living in a refrigerator carton...Maybe living in a cardboard box (http://www.housesofthefuture.com.au/hof_houses04.html) won't be all that bad.

[livius drusus]

So um... Where's the bathroom?

[Dingfod]

It's got a composting toilet closet. With some photovoltaic arrays, a few 12 volt lights and a marine deep-charge battery, the thing is pretty well self-contained. Water is collected off the plastic roof into a tank in the subfloor. Not bad for a cardboard box. My outlook is improving by the minuet.

[bobeh]

It's got a composting toilet closet. With some photovoltaic arrays, a few 12 volt lights and a marine deep-charge battery, the thing is pretty well self-contained. Water is collected off the plastic roof into a tank in the subfloor. Not bad for a cardboard box. My outlook is improving by the minuet.

Nothing to cheer up a pessimist like a good minuet...but I thought you might like country music being in that part of the world...and living on a ranch and all?

Which brings us to music. Does a love for blues (and minuets) suggest that one is a pessimist?

[godfry n. glad]

Okay...Warren...

You currently live in Tornado Alley. If you move to a cardboard house like the one in the picture, you can expect to be bouncing around the midwest. That's gotta be worse than a double-wide, windwise.

'Course, they could install a padded safety cell for stormy weather and you could change your address spontaneously on a semi-erratic basis.

Or, move to a non-windy locale.

godfry

That sucker wouldn't work out here in the western Pacific Northwest (it'd be mush in two months)....eastside, it might work, though (up around the Bend area).

[Ronin]

There is always hope.

[Dingfod]

Nothing to cheer up a pessimist like a good minuet...but I thought you might like country music being in that part of the world...and living on a ranch and all?I thought my purposeful mispelling of minute would elicit some sort of reaction. Is that trolling?

Which brings us to music. Does a love for blues (and minuets) suggest that one is a pessimist?Only if they're in A minor.

[Dingfod]

godfry, I've got my own theory about tornados and trailerhouses. It's the large expanses of sheet aluminum that attracts tornados. Cardboard houses with plastic roofs should be okie-dokie. Oops, that sounds like optimism. Better stop that, I'll ruin my rep.

[godfry n. glad]

Warning.... that thing's a sail!

godfry

[Dingfod]

Maybe if I put a bunch of tires on the roof, it wouldn't blow away.

[Desert Dweller]

Warrenly wrote it seems like my personal optimism has turned a corner down a dark alley in the bad part of town, run out of gas and has a tire going flat.
I suspect that you've simply joined the fate of most people on the planet. You see the trickle down theory is nonsense...it's acutally a trickly up effect.
In every western country the middle class are shrinking and those at or under the poverty line are increasing. To such an extent that Governments are concerned about how they'll be able to afford penions etc.
So be an optimist again and know that you're in good company. It was the last generation which cracked the superannuation thing and gained heaps from inflation ..... now corporations rule, and our sole purpose is to keep feeding them. They don't care about out future. I mean look at the price of housing...young couple today can't even think of buying a home.

[Desert Dweller]

Warrenly wrote it seems like my personal optimism has turned a corner down a dark alley in the bad part of town, run out of gas and has a tire going flat.
I suspect that you've simply joined the fate of most people on the planet. You see the trickle down theory is nonsense...it's acutally a trickly up effect.
In every western country the middle class are shrinking and those at or under the poverty line are increasing. To such an extent that Governments are concerned about how they'll be able to afford penions etc.
So be an optimist again and know that you're in good company. It was the last generation which cracked the superannuation thing and gained heaps from inflation ..... now corporations rule, and our sole purpose is to keep feeding them. They don't care about out future. I mean look at the price of housing...young couple today can't even think of buying a home.

ps thanks for the welcome guys :wave:

[Dingfod]

I mean look at the price of housing...young couple today can't even think of buying a home.They might be able to afford one of those cardboard houses.

[godfry n. glad]

Maybe if I put a bunch of tires on the roof, it wouldn't blow away.

Heh...hey, it works on the highway. Mostly.

Y'know, I always wondered why the doublewide owners in Tornado Alley didn't cable their units down to anchors in the pad. Does it not work, or are they too lazy to make this kind of minor investment in the security of their homes? It seems to me that doing so and leaving a couple windows open wouldn't reduce all the damage, because flotsam and jetsam are still damaging missiles, and not much survives a structure-flattening (or is it exploding) direct hit, but it'd stop them from ending up three counties over. That'd reduce a lot of the airborne debris damage...I'd think.

But I'm probably misinformed anyhoo.

I suspect you could do the same kind of thing with the cardboard house. Then it'd depend upon the strength of the material holding the fastner.

Hmmm... Aside from storm damage, I wonder how long the floor would stand up under regular wear and tear? What kind of retro repair can be done? $35,000 is a lot for a small cardboard house, but once tooled up the price should drop considerably. I'd be interested in what the barriers to entry on trade in this product would be. It seems that one could convert a box factory to this purpose, so the capital is already there in the most part....Hmmm...It'd be great for emergency housing after disasters, especially if it were cheaper.

Can they break down easily and be stored away without taking up inordinate amounts of storage space? I'll have to go back and look at the site.

Then, if they could be made so that they could easily interlock, larger dwellings could be constructed. Modular construction; old idea. Why hasn't it been used? Is it not competitive? What is the down side?

Thank you, Warren. That was fun.

godfry

[Desert Dweller]

There are alot of cases (a surprising number of them) where both parties involved are consenting in the relationship.
And they'd have to share a composting toilet! :yup: