Viral Marketing and Why Court TV Sucks

[lisarea]

So. This came up a little in this thread (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1175), but I decided it's important enough that I need to complain in great detail. Plus, there are stories. Derailing stories.

So. Back in the olden days of the internet, there used to be no spam. And spam was originally applied to a very specific thing--individual commercial postings to different Usenet groups. It was called spam because most newsreaders would mark crossposted threads read if you'd already read them in a different newsgroup, but spam was posted individually, so it'd show up anew in every newsgroup you read. Crossposted commercial posts were briefly called 'Velveeta,' just kind of as a corrolary. But I digress. There was no such thing as spam email, for a very long time. And when it did finally start, we would tie an onion to our belts, which was the fashion at the time, and kick its ass pretty handily. See, the internet was still pretty small, it was an anarchy, and the people who used it were actually invested in the concept and the community. So, when someone sent unsolicited commercial email, probably the majority of people who got it went to the trouble to track down the offender and get their account cancelled. It just didn't work that well. Until this month, that is. (http://www.stopspam.org/faqs/endlesssept.html)That's when AOL got on the internet, and people started treating the commons as more of a commodity than a community. So people started IGNORING SPAM.

See, it's really trivial to send unsolicited commercial email. It's cheap, it passes the burden to the recipient, and basically, any response you get is pure profit. The only way to make it unprofitable is for people to respond completely out of proportion to the actual offense, as a preemptive measure--to make their lives a living, breathing hell. But the AOLers and their ideological kin didn't get that. They were always saying shit like, "Oh, why get bent out of shape about it? Hit your delete button! It's not that big a deal, loser! Don't you have anything better to worry about?"

As though they actually saw their laziness, their stupidity, and their apathy as admirable traits. Sure, some of us would spend a lot more time than we had to tracking down and making trouble for spammers. We could have used the delete key too. But the reason we didn't is because we recognized that, as a community, it is our responsibility to maintain our commons. This means not letting sleazy greedy fucks get away with abusing it to their own ends. But as the AOL mindset took over, we became such a tiny minority that there was virtually no point to reporting spam, and there wasn't enough time in the day to get to it all, anyway.

And because the internet is full of people who are stupid, lazy, and fucking apathetic, we've all had our email rendered unusable. I have to make my email address available online for various projects because I need people to be able to get in touch with me. But they can't anymore, anyway, because the sheer volume of spam has made it impossible to sort through with any accuracy so that I can sort the actual "Hi Lisa!" emails intended for me from the "Hi Lisa!" "Here's where to get cheap Rolex and Viagra!" kind. And if you tell me to chill out and hit the delete key, I say: Fuck you. It's YOUR fault. And you'd better not let me get hold of your email address if you tell me something like that, because I'm likely to auto-forward the hundreds of spams, viruses, and 419 scams I get every day, so you can see how quick you are with your fucking delete key. You nebulous and nonspecific fucker, you!

Which is all just background, but you have to read it anyway because I said.

As I mentioned in that other thread, I just found, for the third time, a Court TV spammer on II. This isn't opaque spam. It's what's called viral marketing (or buzz or word of mouth or guerrilla marketing), in which people take their abuse of the commons a step further to try to break through our marketing filters by exploiting personal relationships to deliver marketing messages. These assholes pretend that they're new users, who just registered and are just a-bustin' to tell us all about some stupid fucking shit they saw on Court TV. Now, I don't know if Court TV is paying these stupid little fucks or if they're volunteers or what. But what I do know is that this is some cheap-assed technique. People can register for a whole shitload of different private discussion boards in a day, and make their little drive-by spams for pennies. And if they are not greeted with a shitload of misery RIGHT NOW, before they've inundated us the way spam has, you can fucking kiss your communities goodbye. If they get away with this for much longer, you can bet your ass that it's going to catch on and big.

So. I couldn't sleep last night, and I put an hour or so into tracking this new spammer down and notifying the admins at the various boards where he posted just who he was and what he is doing. I also emailed The Smoking Gun, and they got back to me this morning, right away, and told me they had no idea this stuff was going on, but they said they were going to find out right away. (Smoking Gun has a show airing on Court TV, so the spam is shilling the Smoking Gun website as part of the promotion.)

And it just occurred to me that Court TV has their own discussion board. With rules against spamming and everything, just to add that little touch of irony and all.

http://www.courttv.com/message_boards/

Now, I'm sure I'll be banned in a heartbeat, but wouldn't it be nice if instead of us playing Whack-A-Mole with Court TV spammers, Court TV had to pay Whack-A-Mole with all the people they're trying to exploit? And wouldn't the world be a nicer, happier place for all of us if they learned right now that their sleazy tactics are going to cause way more trouble than they're worth?

That's all I'm saying.

[LadyShea]

Hmm, more than three. Lemmee do a search.

[Dingfod]

What are you asking for? For us to spam them? Posts like mine are as close as anyone is going to get from me.

Hmmm. Viral spammers even infest my semi-public motorcycle club Yahoo!Group at times. Sleezy bandwidth parasites.

The internet before AOL... ahhhh. Wait a cotton-picking minute. All I had before then was Compuserve and then Prodigy and a few local BBS. I didn't even have AOL until Gateway gave me a free year of that POS with the purchase of an overpriced computer system in 2000. I gladly rid myself of AOL when I had cable installed. I used ATT aforn that. How about that, huh? A technickel sophisticate, I am. Yup.

[lisarea]

What are you asking for? For us to spam them? Posts like mine are as close as anyone is going to get from me.

Spam them? For what?

But if you go to their message boards and ask them why they think it's acceptable to treat other boards as their personal outhouses, maybe they'll realize that the tactic is not as consequence-free as they initially thought. If enough people were to take a moment out of their day to tell them that this is not cool, they might think twice about it. If one in ten people just did something as simple as emailing them and telling them that what they're doing is obnoxious--if just a minority would register their displeasure, and out the spammers when they see them, we could turn their tactics around on them, so the net result would be negative publicity.

If people who don't like it just sit back and watch passively, they'll only get the benefits of their sleazy tactics, and they'll up their efforts.

Update: I just registered and posted an entirely legitimate question about their tactics to the appropriate forum on their boards, and they immediately deleted the post and banned me. I mean, within five minutes. I didn't swear, I didn't spam. I just asked how they could reconcile the posting rules on their own boards with their wanton disregard for the rules on other boards, and I provided links to a few recent examples.


Hmmm. Viral spammers even infest my semi-public motorcycle club Yahoo!Group at times. Sleezy bandwidth parasites.

Yeah, well. Grumbling about it to yourself sure seems to be helping, you lazybutt.

If you weren't so dadgummed cute, I'd be pretty mad at you right now.


The internet before AOL... ahhhh. Wait a cotton-picking minute. All I had before then was Compuserve and then Prodigy and a few local BBS. I didn't even have AOL until Gateway gave me a free year of that POS with the purchase of an overpriced computer system in 2000. I gladly rid myself of AOL when I had cable installed. I used ATT aforn that. How about that, huh? A technickel sophisticate, I am. Yup.

Ha ha. Did you have Compuserve back when you had to pay for the emails you got? NOBODY spammed from Compuserve.

[wade-w]

Lisarea is not exaggerating folks. Spam completely ruined usenet for me. It got so bad that on many groups the spam outnumbered the real posts.

[Dingfod]

Hmmm. Viral spammers even infest my semi-public motorcycle club Yahoo!Group at times. Sleezy bandwidth parasites.

Yeah, well. Grumbling about it to yourself sure seems to be helping, you lazybutt. Wellll? What am I supposta do bout it? I'm not even a member of the semi-pubic[sic] buncha dipsticks group any more anyway because they went all haywire recently [details withheld].

If you weren't so dadgummed cute, I'd be pretty mad at you right now.Cute? How long has it been since your last eye exam? You, on the other hand are quite cute. Shut up. You are too.

Ha ha. Did you have Compuserve back when you had to pay for the emails you got? NOBODY spammed from Compuserve.Yup. Why do you think I switched to Prodigy first chance I got?

[Dingfod]

Lisarea is not exaggerating folks. Spam completely ruined usenet for me. It got so bad that on many groups the spam outnumbered the real posts.As bad as email spam now?

[wade-w]

Lisarea is not exaggerating folks. Spam completely ruined usenet for me. It got so bad that on many groups the spam outnumbered the real posts.As bad as email spam now?

In some groups, it was worse.

[Petra]

I haven't been anywhere else but FF for the last few weeks or so, but if I see any spam as you've described, Lisarea, I'll let you know and you can instruct me on what to do.



<insert Che Guevara smilie here>


Viva La Revolucion!

[Dingfod]

You guys must get more real emails than I do. I average between 20 and 30 email spam a day and I'm really careful about where I go and what I sign up for on the net. I don't get an average of even one personal email every day. Granted, three or four of the spam pieces per day are from retailers that I did sign up for. Hell, maybe I need to sign up for more, they make me feel all wanted and such.

[seebs]

FWIW, I probably get 20-30 "real" messages a day not on lists, maybe a hundred or so from lists, and well over a thousand spams.

[lisarea]

You guys must get more real emails than I do. I average between 20 and 30 email spam a day and I'm really careful about where I go and what I sign up for on the net. I don't get an average of even one personal email every day. Granted, three or four of the spam pieces per day are from retailers that I did sign up for. Hell, maybe I need to sign up for more, they make me feel all wanted and such.

Well, I've had my 'primary' email address for maybe seven or ten years or something, so any leaks have had time to proliferate. Plus, I have had a few things, including a column online, with mailto: links that redirect to my email address.

Seebs has the same deal, too, IIRC, only he is about ten times cooler, because I only get maybe a hundred spams a day lately. I don't know how many real emails I get, because I barely even bother checking that account anymore. I know I've missed real emails, though, including requests for interviews, emails from old friends, and stuff like that.

Oh, also: Plus once, this one asshole, whose email address is charles@hentrichinc.com, hacked a board I was a member of, and he's got my email listed on one of those harvesting pages. That's charles@hentrichinc.com. I repeat: charles@hentrichinc.com

[Dingfod]

Do you think there are any porn sites left that charles@hentrichinc.com hasn't signed up for?

[lisarea]

Do you think there are any porn sites left that charles@hentrichinc.com hasn't signed up for?

Oh. I don't know about porn sites that charles@hentrichinc.com is signed up for. I'm fairly certain, though, that charles@hentrichinc.com needs a new mortgage, plus charles@hentrichinc.com might require help with his credit report, and charles@hentrichinc.com is interested in new moneymaking opportunities, plus charles@hentrichinc.com probably needs to either buy a diploma or charles@hentrichinc.com might possibly be interested in enrolling in a private vocational college.

But I hadn't given much thought to the pornography requirements charles@hentrichinc.com might have!

Until now.

[Corona688]

And because the internet is full of people who are stupid, lazy, and fucking apathetic, we've all had our email rendered unusable. I have to make my email address available online for various projects because I need people to be able to get in touch with me. But they can't anymore, anyway, because the sheer volume of spam has made it impossible to sort through with any accuracy so that I can sort the actual "Hi Lisa!" emails intended for me from the "Hi Lisa!" "Here's where to get cheap Rolex and Viagra!" kind. And if you tell me to chill out and hit the delete key, I say: Fuck you. It's YOUR fault. And you'd better not let me get hold of your email address if you tell me something like that, because I'm likely to auto-forward the hundreds of spams, viruses, and 419 scams I get every day, so you can see how quick you are with your fucking delete key. You nebulous and nonspecific fucker, you! Wow, my very first "fuck-you" on this forum. Hi! :wave:

Tell me, oh goddess and master of other people's freaking email, just what the fuck should I be doing with these spam emails? You can't reply to them, that's guaranteed to make everything worse; And reporting them...? :rofl: There is no institution on the planet capable of handling the sum total of everyone's spam and tracking down every spammer on the planet to face metal-bat justice. Neither is going on a one-man crusade against a single email-spammer likely to work, they're all anonymous fuckers with anonymous everythings and I'm likely to end up attacking the wrong person.

This court-tv guy, though, is different. There's an obvious source, and a usable means of recourse. Let's see how fast court-tv will delete my thread.

[livius drusus]

<insert Che Guevara smilie here>

Okey dokey. :che:

[Godless Dave]

I have to say that the spam filter on my Yahoo! email account works like a charm. I get a ton of spam to that account (my designated "public" account) and I hardly see any of it.

My ISP (Speakeasy (www.speakeasy.net)) implemented customizable spam blocking recently. It's not nearly as good - it filters out messages from legit mailing lists and misses some spam. Fortunately I can customize it to label suspect messages instead of directing them to another folder. I don't share that email as much but I have shared it, and it only gets 2 or 3 spam emails per day.

[Corona688]

My Thread on Court TV -- let's see how long it lasts (http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=189513)

And here's the post itself saved, in case others want to use it:
CourtTV is using a technique known as "viral marketing", attempting to spread knowledge of their programs of interest via word-of-mouth and public means rather than traditional advertising media.

What does this mean to us? Spam. CourtTV has hired people to spam on the internet.

All (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?p=2017727) over (http://www.policeworld.net/forums/index.php/topic,6018.new) the (http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=785874#post785874) internet (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=104246&highlight=court+tv), CourtTV (http://boards3.warnerbros.com/wbol/thread.jspa?threadID=2000003941&messageID=2000159406#2000159406) spammers (http://www.fluxforums.com/showthread.php?t=4038) have (http://www.averi.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=;action=usersrecentposts;username=Kiyoung80) infested (http://www.blaggernet.org/forum/showthread.php?t=37) public (http://codezwiz.com/ftopict-6177-.html&sid=cdafeadabeedf382095f2195b33cbb44) bulletin (http://www.itsallpolitics.com/viewtopic.php?t=969&highlight=&sid=c05a07f1f4d18989b14495fc678242e9) boards (http://forum.bbpixel.com/index.php?showtopic=1788&hl=), making (http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/strummernews/vpost?id=2316) one (http://www.energyradio.fm/showthread.php?t=1121) or (http://www.killersites.com/mvnforum/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=1547#6814) two (http://www.movienotes.net/showthread.php?t=206) posts (http://www.movie-list.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10504) identical (http://www.runaked.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4832) to (http://www.activegaming.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2572) hundreds (http://www.philmster.com/showthread.php?t=3350) if (http://tvbb.zap2it.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=155064&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1) not (http://www.libertyunites.tv/ftopict-4872-.html) thousands (http://www.spankmag.com/f/d.cfm/cc.67885/p.htm) of (http://www.therockforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2247) others (http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=164188) posted (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=3517) elsewhere (http://www.twnpnews.com/phpscripts/forum/showthread.php?p=46019#post46019) before (http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?p=669556#post669556) vanishing (http://www.thewaterfountain.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641).

Google (http://www.google.ca/search?q=kiyoung80&hl=en&lr=&start=40&sa=N) shows over 3,000 hits for one well-abused username alone, 'kiyoung80'. This is not right. This is pure spam, and for once, the culprit is obvious -- CourtTV (http://boards.courttv.com/)!

Public online discussion forums are not CourtTV's personal advertising megaphone. I will never financially support CourtTV in any way until their spamming stops, and I hope you will do likewise.

[livius drusus]

I'm right behind you, Corona.

[livius drusus]

It looks like you're not supposed to talk about CourtTV in the Open Court forum, Corona. Looking down the forum index page I can't imagine where all else it would go. :shrug:

[Corona688]

You know, I don't see that rule anywhere on courttv boards. It's not in the official rules and it's not in a sticky, I checked those before I posted. I think that's just one user's opinion there.

[lisarea]

Wow, my very first "fuck-you" on this forum. Hi! :wave:

Tell me, oh goddess and master of other people's freaking email, just what the fuck should I be doing with these spam emails? You can't reply to them, that's guaranteed to make everything worse; And reporting them...? :rofl: There is no institution on the planet capable of handling the sum total of everyone's spam and tracking down every spammer on the planet to face metal-bat justice. Neither is going on a one-man crusade against a single email-spammer likely to work, they're all anonymous fuckers with anonymous everythings and I'm likely to end up attacking the wrong person.

Crap. I think I changed tense midstream or something. I'm not saying you should or can do something about spam NOW. There is nothing you can do anymore, at least not on an individual basis.

I delete mine.

Maybe ten or so years ago is what I meant. When you'd get maybe a few spams a week, it was pretty trivial to do something about it. You'd trace the email, contact the provider, and the spammer would get his account cancelled pretty consistently. It did take a few minutes, but it worked.

It doesn't work anymore, and just about anything you do just makes it worse. Email is pretty much a lost cause now, as far as I'm concerned. I'm just making a parallel, that if people do something early to show the assholes that their tactics are not worth the heartache and misery it'll cause them, it can keep the practice from catching on.


This court-tv guy, though, is different. There's an obvious source, and a usable means of recourse. Let's see how fast court-tv will delete my thread.

I saw that! You're getting responses and everything! YAY!

I'm going to see if I can make a new account over there.

[Corona688]

Court TV's online feedback system is a joke... there's no place to send complaints, only places to tell them how much you love/hate their shows. They DO have a snailmail address listed, though:Courtroom Television Network LLC
600 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10016
(from here) (http://courttv.com/contact/)

[livius drusus]

You know, I don't see that rule anywhere on courttv boards. It's not in the official rules and it's not in a sticky, I checked those before I posted. I think that's just one user's opinion there.

I don't think it's an official rule, but I bet it's a cultural one, much like IIDB's upper and lower forum distinction.

I'm glad you're joining, lisa.

[wei yau]

Well, it seems that the regulars over at CourtTV have blinders on. They simply don't acknowledge that this is a problem and that it's hypocritical (based on CourtTV's own no-spamming rules).

I guess that's understandable, but it is certainly not justifiable.

And that pointing/laughing smiley in the second post on the second page is really disturbing looking. Too much teeth or something. Ick.

Liv, please tell me we'll never have that smiley here.

[lisarea]

Court TV's online feedback system is a joke... there's no place to send complaints, only places to tell them how much you love/hate their shows. They DO have a snailmail address listed, though:Courtroom Television Network LLC
600 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10016
(from here) (http://courttv.com/contact/)

They also have a toll-free number, 1-800-56-COURT. They have to pick up the charges, but the downside is that they get ANI records, so they have your number even if it's blocked.

Meh. What are they gonna do? Call and ask if I have Prince Albert in a can?

[livius drusus]

Well, it seems that the regulars over at CourtTV have blinders on. They simply don't acknowledge that this is a problem and that it's hypocritical (based on CourtTV's own no-spamming rules).

I guess that's understandable, but it is certainly not justifiable.

Well, snowleopard makes a good point: how do we know it's CourtTV making this shit happen instead of just some nutter who likes the sound of his voice?

And that pointing/laughing smiley in the second post on the second page is really disturbing looking. Too much teeth or something. Ick.

Liv, please tell me we'll never have that smiley here.

We will never, ever have that smiley here, eldar darling. The underbite is freakish. I did find another point and laugh one on SC recently that I thought was aight. Whaddayasay?

[wei yau]

We will never, ever have that smiley here, eldar darling. The underbite is freakish. I did find another point and laugh one on SC recently that I thought was aight. Whaddayasay?

Hmmm, I'd say that if I were the pointee, I'd kick the pointer's ass. Of course, I don't know if this particular breed of smiley has feet.

That being said, it's a perfectly good point and laugh smiley.

[Corona688]

I'm glad you're joining, lisa. I'm guessing she's 'pirate jenny'. Great post lisa, you brought up stuff I hadn't even realized yet.

[Corona688]

Well, snowleopard makes a good point: how do we know it's CourtTV making this shit happen instead of just some nutter who likes the sound of his voice? I too thought snowleapord had a potential point until pirate jenny pointed out that these posters were shilling programs that hadn't aired yet.

[livius drusus]

Oooo! That pirate jenny be a smart one. :giggle:

[wei yau]

Arrrr! That pirate jenny be a smart one. :giggle:

Fixed it for you, no charge.

[livius drusus]

My timbers are totally shivering. :pirate:

[Dingfod]

There is no institution on the planet capable of handling the sum total of everyone's spam and tracking down every spammer on the planet to face metal-bat justice. Neither is going on a one-man crusade against a single email-spammer likely to work, they're all anonymous fuckers with anonymous everythings and I'm likely to end up attacking the wrong person.How about forwarding all of them to bill.gates@msn.com?

[livius drusus]

I finally read the New York Times article. What a nightmare. For some reason, I find it even more disturbing that they do this buzzing crap for free.

[lisarea]

I'm glad you're joining, lisa. I'm guessing she's 'pirate jenny'.

You gentlemen can watch as I'm scrubbin' the floors,
And I'm scrubbin' the floors as you're gawkin'


Great post lisa, you brought up stuff I hadn't even realized yet.

And maybe once, you tip me 'cause it makes you feel swell
On this ratty waterfront, in this ratty old hotel,
But you'll never guess to whom you're talkin'
No, you'll never guess to whom you're talkin'

Oh. Wait.

Nevermind.

You did guess, didn't you?

(Not an entirely shabby tie-in, though, wouldn't you say?)

BTW, this totally rawks. People are actually talking about it. They're outed. And I have to say that you and blex did a much better job at addressing it than my OP did. (I registered yesterday and posted, but they deleted it and banned that account pretty much instantaneously.)

Y'all are the coolest. w00t!!1!

[LadyShea]

They also have a toll-free number, 1-800-56-COURT. They have to pick up the charges, but the downside is that they get ANI records, so they have your number even if it's blocked.

Meh. What are they gonna do? Call and ask if I have Prince Albert in a can?

I can call without sending an ANI through our own toll free network. The most they can do is trace it to a switch...what should I do or say?

Also, is it worth an effort to contact our cable companies? Can someone with better writing skills than I possess write something up?

[lisarea]

I can call without sending an ANI through our own toll free network. The most they can do is trace it to a switch...what should I do or say?

Also, is it worth an effort to contact our cable companies? Can someone with better writing skills than I possess write something up?

Dang it. I got the number wrong. It's actually 1-800-COURT-56.

Anyways, I just called, and pretended I didn't have a touch tone phone, so I left a message. I just told them that I wanted to discuss their new online viral marketing campaigns, and described the phenomenon, and told them I wanted them to call me back and let me know if they plan to continue these tactics, and if so, what their justifications were in doing so.

If they keep doing it, I guess I'll just keep calling and leaving messages telling them that I object to the tactics.

I certainly don't expect them to call me back or anything, but at least I'm being a little of a PITA.

[lisarea]

Aaaaannnnnddd...

POOF!

Is everyone else banned now, too?

Looks like the threads are gone.

I'm seriously thinking we need to get someone to cover this story, and then maybe then submit a link to Slashdot or something.

If I could remember my kuro5hin password, I'd maybe submit an article there, but I think I used a defunct email address there, so I can't reset it. Dang it.

[LadyShea]

Did anyone save the thread? Surely there is someplace interested in this story.

BTW Lisa, what kinds of responses have you gotten from the forum admins you notified?

[Corona688]

Yes, I saved the thread. And BOY have I been banned. Gimme a bit...

[lisarea]

No chance you got my last long-assed post about organic viral marketing, is there, Corona?

I guess it doesn't matter. I wrote it once, I can do it again.

Anyway, I've been getting "Thanks" responses from the admins I've contacted so far. Most of them are pretty pissed, it seems. Some of them are deleting the offending posts, some are editing out the Court TV references, and some are leaving them but keeping their eye out for later ones.

I just emailed an editor over at CNET about the story. They cover stories like this pretty frequently, and I emphasized that there's been a lot of media coverage of the tactic lately, and here is a concrete and egregious example that would probably be of interest to their readers. I may dig around for sites where I could just submit a story outright, too.

Don't they realize they're just pissing people off worse and worse?

[LadyShea]

Well, the subversive marketing is bad enough but then they ban y'all and delete any open exchange of thoughts on it. That pisses me off more than anything.

[livius drusus]

I'm not banned (yet). Are you, lisa? Corona, feel free to email me the saved copy (ffadmin@freethought-forum.com) if you'd like us to host it.

[lisarea]

I'm not banned (yet). Are you, lisa? Corona, feel free to email me the saved copy (ffadmin@freethought-forum.com) if you'd like us to host it.

Yep. They done banned me again.

I'd just made another post to the thread, so I was thinking maybe it was my fault, but I honestly don't think it was that inflammatory or anything. I was just talking about the difference between real, natural viral marketing and the fake, shortcut variety they're using.

Did anyone see it? And if so, did it strike you as hostile? I was really trying not to be. But now I'm starting to think I'm causing the bannings, even though I'm actively trying to be conciliatory.

[Corona688]

No chance you got my last long-assed post about organic viral marketing, is there, Corona? Sorry, no. Last I got was that guy saying how he liked chicken. Sorry.I'm not banned (yet). Are you, lisa? Corona, feel free to email me the saved copy (ffadmin@freethought-forum.com) if you'd like us to host it. I've got my own webpage (http://burningsmell.dyndns.org/court-tv/), but I'll be sure to email you a copy to spread it around -- anyone else?Yep. They done banned me again.

I'd just made another post to the thread, so I was thinking maybe it was my fault, but I honestly don't think it was that inflammatory or anything. I was just talking about the difference between real, natural viral marketing and the fake, shortcut variety they're using.

Did anyone see it? And if so, did it strike you as hostile? I was really trying not to be. But now I'm starting to think I'm causing the bannings, even though I'm actively trying to be conciliatory. I didn't see it, but don't be silly. You'd posted several times in that thread and you hadn't been banned, because the admin wasn't there. And if it was you that caused the bannings, they would've just banned you. It's the whole idea of people talking about their market practices that ticks them off.

[livius drusus]

I doubt it had anything to do with your post, lisa. Just to get some clarity, however, I've started a feedback thread (http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?threadid=189688) about it.

[lisarea]

Hrmm. I think I've been IP banned. I was getting 404s until I went through an anonymizing proxy.

Unless the boards actually went down for a while, and it's just a coincidence.

I kind of like to think that they just hate me extra special lots, though.

[livius drusus]

Well, my feedback thread is gone, but I did get a PM from the moderator telling me it's being "held" and to check again tomorrow. Odd board, that...

[Corona688]

Hrmm. I think I've been IP banned. I was getting 404s until I went through an anonymizing proxy.

Unless the boards actually went down for a while, and it's just a coincidence. I was getting 'connection refused' for a bit but it seems to have sorted itself out. Though I don't doubt they may have IP banned you, after all, you did come back as another user.

[livius drusus]

Thanks to the wonder of tabbed browsing, I actually do have your last post, lisa. Feel free to merge it into your record, Corona.

[Corona688]

Anyway, I've been getting "Thanks" responses from the admins I've contacted so far. Most of them are pretty pissed, it seems. Some of them are deleting the offending posts, some are editing out the Court TV references, and some are leaving them but keeping their eye out for later ones. How did you contact them? I see no obvious method of doing so once a user is banned.

[Corona688]

Thanks to the wonder of tabbed browsing, I actually do have your last post, lisa. Feel free to merge it into your record, Corona. Done. And wow, you must've caught it right in the middle of a delete; it's obviously the last page, but there were FIVE pages, not three!

[lisarea]

Anyway, I've been getting "Thanks" responses from the admins I've contacted so far. Most of them are pretty pissed, it seems. Some of them are deleting the offending posts, some are editing out the Court TV references, and some are leaving them but keeping their eye out for later ones. How did you contact them? I see no obvious method of doing so once a user is banned.

I mean I've contacted the admins of other boards they've targeted whenever possible. Some kind of Christian forum, some gaming forums, parent forums, etc. Not all forums provide email links or feedback forms, but for those that do, I've popped off quick messages to them just to let them know they're being spammed.

If you mean how to contact Court TV, they do have that one hotmail address, which is in the registration email, plus there are contact addresses in their domain registration information, and I think even if banned from the boards subdomain, you can use the contact form on the site.

[livius drusus]

Done. And wow, you must've caught it /right/ in the middle of a delete;

I can't take any credit for it, though. Firefox made it happen all on its own. :)

it's obviously the last page, but there were FIVE pages, not three!

I changed the default post display from 10 to 20 as soon as I activated my account. I think 10 posts per page is too annoying to bear.

[Corona688]

I've emailed them asking why my thread was deleted and why I was banned. I doubt they will reply, but you never know.

[livius drusus]

The moderator replied to my PM reply. It seems that both your original thread and my feedback thread are being "held" pending orders from his superior, who, he assures me, is slow at answering questions.

[Corona688]

The moderator replied to my PM reply. It seems that both your original thread and my feedback thread are being "held" pending orders from his superior, who, he assures me, is slow at answering questions. Maybye your feedback thread, but my thread gives an "invalid thread specified" error rather than "you don't have permissions to access this thread". To my understanding that means it's gone.

[livius drusus]

My feedback thread gets "invalid thread specificed" too. Who knows what being "held" means? If it were a vB3 board, I'd suspect it was a soft delete which allows for click of the mouse restores. As it is, I have no idea what all they're up to.

[LadyShea]

IIRC, when a thread is moved to the MCR at II, you get that invalid link thing. I bet they just moved it to a private forum.

[lisarea]

Hey, any of you board admin types have accounts at board admin boards?

I was thinking that it'd be a good idea just to warn admins in general about this stuff, and the best way to reach them en masse would be at the boards where they talking about the software and policies and shit like that.

vm? liv? Anyone else?

I'll give you a quarter.

[livius drusus]

Sure do. I'm registered at 2 of them, in fact, although I haven't posted in ages. I shall brush off the dust and get posting, but I'm going to have to ask for 2 bits, ya skinflint.

[Godless Dave]

I was going joke that a quarter wouldn't be nearly enough for liv; she would require at least a half or a full ounce.

But in currency terms, two bits IS a quarter. There are eight bits in a dollar.

[lisarea]

Sure do. I'm registered at 2 of them, in fact, although I haven't posted in ages.

w00t! w00t!

Yay!

I shall brush off the dust and get posting, but I'm going to have to ask for 2 bits, ya skinflint.

Oh, crap. Um, OK.

Hey. Uh.

Anybody here willing to pay me a quarter to, uh, go kick a lawyer? Come on! You know you want me to! Just twenty-five cents!

A teenager? I'd kick a teenager for a quarter, if you'd rather.

Takers?

[livius drusus]

I was going joke that a quarter wouldn't be nearly enough for liv; she would require at least a half or a full ounce.

That's only for really good posts, though. I'm just going to half-ass my way through this one.

But in currency terms, two bits IS a quarter. There are eight bits in a dollar.

I knew that! I was being clever.

Okay no I was being dumb as a sack of hair. I even hummed the tune but forgot it goes up in twos. Yeah. Dumb. :mourn:

[wei yau]

Anybody here willing to pay me a quarter to, uh, go kick a lawyer? Come on! You know you want me to! Just twenty-five cents!

A teenager? I'd kick a teenager for a quarter, if you'd rather.

Takers?

Find me a teenage lawyer and you got yourself a deal.

I'd buy that for a dollar!

[lisarea]

Find me a teenage lawyer and you got yourself a deal.

Hmm. Well, the Little Muffin isn't actually licensed to practice law, but he is kind of an asshole. Is that close enough?


I'd buy that for a dollar!

Tell you what: I'll line them up and kick them both in the same swoop for seventy-five cents.

Oh, man, I'm going to be RICH!

[livius drusus]

Done (http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=40399#post40399), lisarea.

[Dingfod]

CBS 60 Minutes has a segment on viral marketing on right now, it's about how marketers are using it to appeal directly to kids, preteens even, bypassing parents.

[Corona688]

Any response? Time to prod 'em again.

[lisarea]

Any response? Time to prod 'em again.

I spent a couple of days emailing administrators who'd been hit and letting them know about it, but I haven't done anything in a while. I'm thinking maybe a letter to the VP? Would that be entirely insane, you think? Maybe if I could find the director of marketing or something. Maybe CC it.

I think I might kind of know the company that's doing it, too, but I am not sure enough to say.

[livius drusus]

No response to my complaint thread on CTV, Corona. One of the posters at The Admin Zone who runs a huge Final Fantasy board had a rather lovely idea, though:


I've been starting to see alot of this. We should start a page court-tv-sucks and between us make it rank 1 in google search. Teach them a lesson thats for sure and hey, it might be fun :)

[Corona688]

Heh. If we could do that, that'd be awesome. I've already got that page of mine...

[livius drusus]

I mentioned your page in the thread, Corona, and suggested it would make a fine nucleus of content for a CTV sucks page. I'll contact phoenixdown21 privately and see if we can drum up more interest.

[seebs]

It's curious that you mention this. When I search for Court TV (http://www.seebs.net/log/archives/000240.html), I get information about their message board spam (http://www.seebs.net/log/archives/000240.html).

Go Google! Go! Go!

[livius drusus]

Outstanding, seebs. Minor wording issue: CTV is not a TV show but an entire cable channel. Their shills spam specific shows on the channel.

[seebs]

Thanks. Fixed.

[livius drusus]

Lisa, the latest post (http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=40684#post40684) on my Admin Zone thread claims these posts can't really be described as viral marketing. You wouldn't have any respone I could by any chance crib, would you?

[lisarea]

Lisa, the latest post (http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=40684#post40684) on my Admin Zone thread claims these posts can't really be described as viral marketing. You wouldn't have any respone I could by any chance crib, would you?

Yeah, I can see his point. I think I even addressed this somewhere once, but I don't remember where.

Viral marketing exists in legitimate forms, to be sure. Google is the best example I can think of. They rely, at least primarily, on buzz and word of mouth to advertise their services. The difference is that Google's, as near as I can tell, is real. People really do recommend it to their friends. I have worked in marketing, too, and I actually designed and recommended viral marketing techniques. But my approach was to tell my clients to provide a service that would be useful to people, so they would be motivated to tell people about it. In my fields, it usually meant offering technical resources like white papers, glossaries, and other reference materials, both to encourage linkage to their websites and to establish a reputation as an authority in the field. That kind works absolutely, and there's really nothing deceptive about it. It's no secret who is providing the service, and any referrals they'd get based on that kind of thing were uncoerced.

A sort of in-the-middle example might be something like street teams, where some band or something will provide regular fans with promotional materials, CDs, t-shirts, or whatever, to pass out to their friends. Hell, even logo t-shirts and such are a kind of viral marketing.

The Court TV promotion, and things like it, are 100% fake viral marketing. They're not real buzz. They're not real word of mouth. They're too lazy, too stupid, too incompetent, too worthless, to actually provide the quality of offerings that would cause people to naturally feel compelled to promote their products, so they hire whores to do it for them.

The reason it's useful to point out the (admittedly fake) 'viral' aspect is to differentiate it from regular, obvious spam. It's even more deceptive, in that it exploits the natural human interactions that make real viral marketing--and hell, natural human interactions as a whole--work. It isn't just spam. It's more insidious than that.

But he is right that viral marketing in itself is not an evil thing. It's hard to pull off, because it does require that you actually provide some product or service that is so remarkable that people are motivated to advertise for you of their own volition. In that way, regular, organic 'viral marketing' is far more honest than any other marketing strategy I can think of.

And that just makes it all the more pathetic that some company like Court TV is trying to take some lame-assed shortcut to exploit that technique to shill their mediocre offerings.