Why I am a jackass

[maddog]

Just call me grumpy -- or maybe Grumpy, one of the seven dwarfs, and maybe Dopey, too. First off, I have other events from the outside world acting upon me, so I am more vulnerable to emotion right now. Second, there is something about privacy issues (i.e., invasion of by corporations and others) that just pushes my buttons. I'm not sure why I have this huge antipathy to anything trampling my perceived (or possibly imaginary) boundaries, but I go off like a rocket when my territory is invaded. I had two separate incidents the same evening yesterday, and these are not the first time that issues like this have set me off.

First up, the AT&T Wireless/Cingular merger. I didn't know they had merged until a few days ago. I don't read newspapers, and I have not listened to ANY news since Nov. 2. It's just too depressing. I figure that if I really need to know something, someone will tell me, or I'll hear it mentioned elsewhere. So, last weekend my buddy Jim told me about the merger. OK, fine. I have AT&T. So now my company has merged. As far as I know and care, what they do is up to them.

So I get this call on my cell phone last night. The poor young thing on the other end is going on about how "you now have X minutes plan for $Y.YY a month, right?" I say, "I don't know. You can never compare apples to apples among plans and it's all so very confusing. They all tell you a bunch of mumbo jumbo and no two things between any two plans or any two companies are the same. I don't really know what I have." So she goes on about how for $29.95 a month for the next 24 months they can give me gazbillion X more minutes than I already have, and can offer me better service. "You want to have better service, right?" I say, sure, better service is great, but I don't know what's "better" about anything. AND if they want to give me something "better," then just give it to me. If you want to give me better service, then just do it. Why do you have to call me? Then she goes on about the merger and how they have to get my consent for something. I say, "look, the companies merged. I don't see what that has to do with me or why you're asking me anything." She says they have to get my consent to change "the technology you're using." I said, "I don't know what you mean by 'technology.' The only 'technology' I have is a phone. I push buttons and the phone works. That's all I know and that's all I care about." She goes on and on about analog, something-something.m.e., something-else-something-else.m.e., and g.h.p. or whatever. You can't have analog because people steal your signals. She talks about decks of cards and hearts and diamonds and how you have to wait for diamonds or you only have four decks of cards or you have a lot more decks of cards, or whatever. I said, "I have no idea what you're talking about or why I should care." She says again, it's about "the technology you're using." I say, I don't know from technology. If X company has 10 towers and Y company has 10 towers, and now they merge and they have 20 towers, then why do you need to call me? Yeah, they've got more towers and can give "better service," but I don't see what it has to do with me. The companies do what the companies do. They've got more stuff now between them. They can now give me better service because they're combined. FINE! Go right ahead. But don't bother ME about it. Well, she says, they have to get my permission. For what? Why don't they just go ahead and do it? They're going to do what they are going to do; that's why they merged. Great! That's why they did it! Just give it to me. I'm already their customer. Why are you calling me?

We went on like this for about 30 minutes with no resolution. I told her, too, that it sounds like they are selling me something. Ergo the "24 months." They want to lock you in to some kind of contract. I already have a contract. But no, they call before that's up and want to sell you ANOTHER contract for ANOTHER 2 years or 3 years or whatever, so they can penalize you if you move or leave or quit or change your mind. And they just keep doing it and keep doing it to keep you tied up. And I don't like being "SOLD" something and I don't like moving goalposts and I don't like being tied up. I'm already their customer.

What happens if I say no? are they going to make my phone not work? (Oh yeah, there was part of the whole pitch how I'm going to get this new phone for FREE so I can do even more and better text messaging. I say, I don't do text messaging) She won't say yes or no. I say, look, all I know is I have a phone. It's a perfectly good phone. I push buttons and it goes. That's all I care about. Are you telling me that, after this merger, they're going to make my phone not work?

She was so frustrated, the poor kid, that she started to cry. I comforted her and told her it's not her fault, yes she is doing the best she can, and it's not her fault, necessarily if I don't understand what's going on. I'm a difficult customer. She tries to tell me that, if I don't understand her gibberish about "technology," I could research it online. I say, why should I have to? I don't know or care from "technology." The companies do what the companies do. All I care about is if the phone works when I push buttons. that's all the technology I know about.

Why am I so suspicious about this stuff? why am I so angry and frustrated? You can NEVER get a simple, straight answer from these companies. They just want to sell you stuff. I HATE HATE HATE it!!!! Go away!! Leave me alone!! Don't bother me!! Don't use up my confounded minutes (if that's all I have) with your confounded stupid slimey tricky sneaky blankety blank SALES FFFFFFF PITCH!!! GAH!!!

(gotta split now. I'll be back later with part 2)

#133

[lisarea]

Don't get pissed at me, K?

I think what they're doing is that AT&T/Cingular is phasing out some of the older protocols like analog and TDMA in certain areas. Protocols are like discrete 'languages' that cell phones use, and phones have to be pre-programmed to understand the languages used by the different types of network. (Does CDMA or GSM sound familiar? Those are, I think, the protocols they're planning to switch their networks to.) As I understand it, your phone should still technically work, but your reception will be crappy and sporadic because they intend to slowly eliminate the networks that speak your phone's language.

So, it's likely that you have a phone that only uses protocols they're phasing out, and they want you to get a new phone, and sign a new contract in the process. The trick is that the new phones they're offering with the new contracts are not necessarily upgrades as such. They're just compatible with different networks.

So. You could tough out the rest of your contract with bad coverage, you could sign a new contract, or you could just make yourself a PITA and see if you can get a new phone from them for a small price. (Or you could find a compatible phone without a provider lock, even, and use that for the balance of your contract, but now I'm scared to bring that up because it's kind of hairy.)

Seriously, though, if you want me to help you figure this out, PM me, and I'll try to help you sort through it.

[maddog]

thanks, lisarea. Yes, I suspected something along those lines, but, honestly, if I'm their customer, and I've been their customer for years (which I have), why the heck don't they just GIVE me the blankety-blank stuff? Why don't they just GIVE me the better service? I may take you up on your PM correspondence offer to see what I can learn about what my choices are, although, again, I really really don't see why I should have to make any choices at all. They should just give me what I need for the rest of my contract, which they PROMISED to provide me with good service anyway. Now, it's like a threat -- you WON'T get the service you were promised UNLESS you sign away more of your life with us. I hate that stuff.

Now, part 2. Grocery store "club cards." I live in California. California has a special clause in the Constitution, which isn't in the federal Constitution, which EXPLICITLY provides a fundamental RIGHT to PRIVACY. I think that the right to privacy is still guaranteed under the federal constitution, too, whether you want to put it in terms of "penumbras" or "interstices," as has been expressed in the jurisprudence of some U.S. Supreme Court cases, or whether you think it is directly implied by the other enumerated rights (most notably, 4th Amend. protection against unreasonable search and seizure of person, home and papers, and 5th Amend. due process protections), which are explicitly about personal privacy. Anyway, I get a couple of items at the store and get to the check-out line. They ask for my "club card." I say, the Constitution guarantees my right to privacy. I don't see why I should be charged MORE MONEY to KEEP what the Constitution PROTECTS and GUARANTEES. If you want to give me a discount, then just give me the discount.

Naturally, of course, they won't do it. The clerk calls over the manager. He said, "There's no way we can do that [i.e., just give me the discount]." I said, "sure there is. You've got cards; use one of them." He says, "it's against the store policy." I say, "Don't tell me there's 'no way' -- that's not true. There IS a way. You just don't WANT to do it. It's not your 'policy,' but you COULD do it. So don't tell me there's 'no way.'"

And, in fact, a friend told me that it IS possible to GET a card without giving them any personal information at all, but you have to ask for it. I mentioned this, about getting a card without having to give any identifying information at all, and they acted like they didn't know what I was talking about. I said, "The Constitution says I have a right to privacy," He (mgr.) says, "Yeah, well, there's no law that says you have to shop at this store."

But what happens if they ALL do it? Then what choice does anyone have? I really don't get it. If my freedoms mean anything, then they shouldn't be able to CHARGE ME to keep them. If the only way I get to "exercise" my freedoms is by PAYING to keep them (instead of the FREEDOM being FREE), then what the hell good is a "guaranty"? What does it mean to say I have a RIGHT to something if I have to PAY to HAVE it? What if I don't have the money? I thought that was the whole point, is that you DON'T have to have a PROPERTY (i.e., MONEY) qualification to HAVE your rights. The "guaranty" SHOULD mean that those rights that ARE "GUARANTEED" cannot be BURDENED. Yet, I have to PAY MORE to keep my rights. It's not right, it's not fair, I don't get it. It royally pisses me off.

I also don't know what about these privacy, or personal information, or personal space, or boundary issues bothers me so much, but I react to them with a high degree of suspicion, hostility and anger.

So I had both of these in the space of one evening last night. And I was virtually certainly an incredible jerk about both of them. And THAT pisses me off, too. Why should I HAVE TO be upset to KEEP my rights? If those rights are MINE, how come I can't just HAVE them? How come I have to FIGHT to keep them? I shouldn't have to do that.

Grouse, grouse, grouse. Grump, grump, grump. :whup: :sadcheer: :fuming:

#134

[LadyShea]

If you ever get a call like that again, tell them you cannot make a decision on the phone and to send you the proposal and explanation in writing and hang up.

I am in a fight over 33.00 with our local newspaper. I never asked for the paper or signed a contract, all that happened was I got a telemarketing call and that marketer claims I said "yes" (no proof of course). The paper was delivered anyway and are trying to collect on it and I have been going back and forth with this shit for months. The 33.00 is insignificant, it's the principle. After that I ask for everything in writing before I will even consider it let alone talk to the person.

I said, "The Constitution says I have a right to privacy," He (mgr.) says, "Yeah, well, there's no law that says you have to shop at this store."

Well, much as you hate it, he is absolutely correct. In a capitalist society, the owners of the store have the right to set policies and you have the right to shop elsewhere if you disagree with those policies. I am pretty sure there are grocery chains that don't use the club cards.

[lisarea]

You're absolutely right to be pissed. And, um, hey, aren't you one of those l-words? Like, those guys who are everything that's wrong with US society today and all?

Because what angle I'd take would be to approach it from an 'acceptable level of service' standpoint or whatever your type calls it. Aren't there ways of voiding contracts if one party isn't acting in good faith or something? If they're not willing to fulfill the balance of the contract without any additional cost to you, then you should be able to get out of the contract and find another provider. You can even take your phone number with you now, which makes it easier.

I'm with you on the whole space invaders phenomenon, too. I'm a pretty serious introvert myself, and I heartily resent people interrupting me with their own agendas, asking me personal questions, and things like that. But the extroverts have always pretty much ruled the public square, for obvious reasons, and they probably always will.

Oh, and the grocery stores get away with it by not characterizing the regular price as an upcharge (even though it is), but the card price as a sale price. Can you just fill them out with fake information? That's what all of mine are, except Albertson's, which is blank. They just handed them to me.

[LadyShea]

Edited because it was simply off topic venting at MY customers being taken out on maddog. Work has been really bad.

My apologies

[freemonkey]

but, honestly, if I'm their customer, and I've been their customer for years (which I have), why the heck don't they just GIVE me the blankety-blank stuff? Why don't they just GIVE me the better service? ........ I really really don't see why I should have to make any choices at all. They should just give me what I need for the rest of my contract, which they PROMISED to provide me with good service anyway. Now, it's like a threat -- you WON'T get the service you were promised UNLESS you sign away more of your life with us. I hate that stuff.
I agree with you.

I hate the grocery store club cards, too. Three of the four chains in my area use them. The one that doesn't is way over on the other end of town. I use the cards, simply because I didn't want to fight over it, but wanted to save $$$.

It seems so many stores are getting in on that act, and some even want me to pay yearly fees for the privilege of getting discounts.... Barnes & Nobel. No way. I can get better book deals elsewhere, and now only shop B&N for bargain books, and to get a good look at a book, to make sure I really want it before I buy online. Fuckers. [/myrant]

[pescifish]

Considering what all you have been going through this past month and especially the last week or so, my recommendation is to completely avoid these decisions at this time. As LadyShea suggests, tell the phone folks to send you the material and you will make the decision. Or that you will check online. Just get them off the phone.

And then ignore it. Completely. For now. Don't do any of this shit or think about extra crap right now. Give it a month or so.

I am sure your ATT mobile phone will not immediately stop working in the next month. There are always "fantastic available only NOW" deals and you will get one then.

As for the supermarket cards, I have one for Ralphs, Vons and now Albertsons without ever giving out information. At each store, the cashier asked me if I wanted to sign up, I said "sure", they handed me the form AND the card at the same time, assuming (I suppose) I would fill out the form and return it next time. Which I didn't. At Albertsons, I did give them my phone number (err, my no-phone-connected-to-it second line) as that was what it would take for them to be able to give me the discounts if I somehow forgot my card. Just my phone number, not my name. And I'm sure it could have been a bogus phone number, if I had thought to make one up I could remember.

Take care of yourself, {{{{maddog}}}}. There will be time to take up the cause for privacy and service in a few weeks or so. Tell them all to bugger off for now.

[Dingfod]

Go for the phone deal, but get them to give you the new phone for signing up. I went into ATT Wireless store just before the merger and asked about a an ad for new plan that they sent me which I had in my grubby paws, a plan that would save me about $10 a month and had about a billion times more minutes, unlimited long distance and roaming. Since my contract with them was up several years ago I thought it might be time to get a good deal. The catch? I had to get new phones for the GSM network. For $30 each after instant rebates, I got two tiny new LG flip-phones because I'm too cheap to spring for the megabuck Motorola or the Sony Ericsson phones with the cameras, the widescreen HDTVs, pimpin' rims and liquor service. You know what was cool beans? I got a credit for the $60 I spent on my bill.... free, just like I was a new customer. Not only that but I got a Xmas card from Cingular. How's that for perks? So far, I like the service, the phone is cool and compact. They'll even upload your cellphone's address book. Go for the phone deal, bend 'em over, make them bow down before you and kiss your buttocks.


Super-H the little supermarket near me used to have those "discount" cards, if you didn't have them you got jacked for about 30-50% above anyone else's normal retail price. To get one you had to give them all your private info. I did, but I never shopped there using the card. It started off with me forgetting the card. A few of the cashiers kept a card by their cash register and would scan it instead of your own. I wonder what their analysts thought of one of their employees buying $15,000 worth of groceries a week?