Ha ha. Go look at digg.com

[lisarea]

Right this minute, the first story that doesn't appear to contain the HD-DVD encryption key is on page four (sorted by popularity).

(Digg got a takedown notice, and they actually complied with it, burying stories and even banning users who posted the key.)

[Stormlight]

And now they took the whole site down "for maintenance". :chuckle:

[Watser?]

Now they have this up: Today was an insane day. And as the founder of Digg, I just wanted to post my thoughts…

In building and shaping the site I’ve always tried to stay as hands on as possible. We’ve always given site moderation (digging/burying) power to the community. Occasionally we step in to remove stories that violate our terms of use (eg. linking to pornography, illegal downloads, racial hate sites, etc.). So today was a difficult day for us. We had to decide whether to remove stories containing a single code based on a cease and desist declaration. We had to make a call, and in our desire to avoid a scenario where Digg would be interrupted or shut down, we decided to comply and remove the stories with the code.

But now, after seeing hundreds of stories and reading thousands of comments, you’ve made it clear. You’d rather see Digg go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company. We hear you, and effective immediately we won’t delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.

If we lose, then what the hell, at least we died trying.

[viscousmemories]

:adminpwr:

[Javaman]

Last night, there were about 9000 results in Google for that hex code and this morning there are almost 35,000. You can't undo stuff like this.

[Waluigi]

That's why I read Reddit (http://reddit.com) instead. They don't censor hexadecimal. :)

[Javaman]

That's why I read Reddit (http://reddit.com) instead. They don't censor hexadecimal. :)Well, neither does digg, now. (http://blog.digg.com/?p=74) :yup:

[D. Scarlatti]

Is there a version of this thread in English somewhere?

[Stormlight]

:laugh:

[D. Scarlatti]

Seriously, what is it? People posting links to (mostly) tech news, or what?

This is the top story right now:

Loupe.js and Loupe.png allows you to add a loupe (magnifier) to images on your webpages. It uses unobtrusive javascript to keep your code clean.

What? Is that news or spam?

[slimshady2357]

Can someone tell me what the code is used for? I don't understand what all the hub-ub is about?

09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B: D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0

There is the code, what the hell good could it do for me? Or really, someone who knows what it CAN be used for?

[D. Scarlatti]

It was easier to find an explanation (http://www.forbes.com/technology/2007/05/02/digital-rights-management-tech-cx_ag_0502digg.html) for the layman at Google News than at digg.com.

[Javaman]

One of the things that this code allows you to do is play a legally-purchased HD-DVD in your legal Linux system. Unfortunately, breaking the copy protection is illegal in the U.S.

DRM is crumbling, though. Bad people will always get around DRM and the like but it is we consumers that get treated as future lawbreakers.

[lisarea]

The code is the encryption for HD-DVDs. It's been out for a little while. Digg, like reddit, is a news aggregation site, where readers submit, vote on, and comment on stories. Some guy posted the encryption key in a story. Digg got a cease and desist, so they removed the story and banned the user (one of the site's top users, IIRC). I didn't see it at the time, but I guess it was one of the highest rated stories ever on the site.

Then they started going after stories ABOUT the key and other related subjects, too, even when they didn't include the key.

People were mad in part because digg complied with the takedown. A lot of other sites didn't. They were also mad because digg went overboard by banning users and removing any mention of anything related to the story. So users started submitting and voting on stories about the key, and stories containing the key, to the point where all of the most popular stories contained the key in some way or another--by itself, as a poem, a graphic, a song, etc. If you saw the stories that were up, and they looked nonsensical: A lot of them were. It was just people making up any old thing.

Anyway, the key is out here already. A million people have it saved on their computers, written down on Post It notes, etc. (Like with deCSS, if you remember that.)

[slimshady2357]

Ok, thanks for the explanations :tiphat:

So people with Linux couldn't play HD-DVD's they had legally purchased? And now, with this key, they can?

But, it also makes it easier to copy these HD-DVD's illegally?

Is that correct?

[lisarea]

Ok, thanks for the explanations :tiphat:

So people with Linux couldn't play HD-DVD's they had legally purchased? And now, with this key, they can?

But, it also makes it easier to copy these HD-DVD's illegally?

Is that correct?

Pretty much. The key isn't really the central thing, though. Those things get out all the time. That's effectively what deCSS was, too.

Professional pirating guys don't really suffer much from copy prevention. They always manage. It's really mostly regular users who are affected by DRM, not being able to play their media on their compliant players, whether it's a different OS or a different player, or even a standalone player (CD or DVD).

Anyway, the key being so heavily publicized is not really that big a deal in itself. The people who were likely to directly use it already had it. The fact that a bunch of individual users now have it memorized is not going to make a significant difference in how easy it is to circumvent, and I daresay that only a tiny percentage of the people who have it now would even know what to do with it. (Look up the Streisand Effect. That's pretty much what's happening there.)

The bigger story is that digg made a really, really bad decision in complying with the takedown order. Reasonable people disagree, but digg has always hyped itself as being completely democratic. That's one of the reasons it's so stupid sometimes. When they stepped in so readily to remove stories AND users not just for posting the key, but for talking about posting the key, they completely alienated a lot of their users. That's howcome the riot.

ETA: Oh. I left out an important part of context. The reason that this even became a moderately attention getting story in the first place is that the HD-DVD group thingy (IIRC, it's not the MPAA per se, but I'm not sure) sent a C&D letter demanding that the key be removed, and they actually reproduced the key in the letter itself. People were mostly just laughing at them for being dumbasses for doing that.

[JackDog]

I'm surprised that this happened with HD-DVD....it sounds more like something that Sony would do.

(3300 smilies, and no "shoot yourself in the foot" smilie?!?)

[lisarea]

I'm surprised that this happened with HD-DVD....it sounds more like something that Sony would do.

Sony does that kind of thing, yes, but they're far from alone. The C&Ds were sent by the HD-DVD licensing authority for the MPAA or something (the MPAA being the movie equivalent of the RIAA). They (for values of 'they' that include the MPAA and related organizations) have done exactly this kind of thing before, when they issued similar takedowns for deCSS.

So don't be surprised. The DMCA is a fucking nightmare, such that things like this can't even reasonably be called 'abuses.' This is exactly, precisely the kind of thing the law is designed to do, and Sony is not the only organization that's been using the law.

As far as shooting themselves in the foot, I'd say that depends on what they're trying to accomplish. The whole big entertainment industry in the US seems to be doing a pretty good job of reinventing themselves as a particularly unproductive and unaccountable arm of the government or something. Maybe they're doing it on purpose.

[Ari]

I would assume that people just don't like DRM but the RIAA has convinced me that that is false. In reality everyone posting this code is a pirate and should serve jail time for trying to use their HD-DVD on a system that hasn't payed protection money to the MPAA.

[livius drusus]

The NYT has an article today about this (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/03/technology/03code.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin).

[Javaman]

Last night, there were about 9000 results in Google for that hex code and this morning there are almost 35,000. You can't undo stuff like this.Right now we're at 829,000! (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2209-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0%22&btnG=Search) Should break 1,000,000 in the next day or so.

[Crumb]

That's amazing!

[Javaman]

Last night, there were about 9000 results in Google for that hex code and this morning there are almost 35,000. You can't undo stuff like this.Right now we're at 829,000! (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2209-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0%22&btnG=Search) Should break 1,000,000 in the next day or so.Results 1 - 10 of about 1,410,000 for "09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0"

[lisarea]

Ha ha!

I was kind of hoping it'd take digg down with it, though. DAGNABBIT.

[Belladonna]

Forgive my ignorance...but why were you hoping it would take digg down with it? :wha:

[lisarea]

The news aggregation part is relatively benign (it sucks too, but in slightly less insidious ways), but the comment system is a trainwreck. It only has one level of reply, the stories are short lived, and the voting system is democratic, so it ends up encouraging stupid, kneejerk soundbite commentary.

Ultimately, it encourages uninformed yahoos to overvalue their stupidassed opinions. No good ever comes of that.

[Belladonna]

Well that just about sums it up.

[ChuckF]

Ultimately, it encourages uninformed yahoos to overvalue their stupidassed opinions. No good ever comes of that.
As an uninformed yahoo with extremely valuable opinions, I am so offended. :hmph:

[lisarea]

You're pretty when you're angry.

[Ari]

voting system is democratic, so it ends up encouraging stupid, kneejerk soundbite commentary.
As well as supporting popular opinion over accuracy. (one thing I hate about Yahoo Answers, or any other system that gives every random person that comes along an equal vote.)

[lisarea]

voting system is democratic, so it ends up encouraging stupid, kneejerk soundbite commentary.
As well as supporting popular opinion over accuracy. (one thing I hate about Yahoo Answers, or any other system that gives every random person that comes along an equal vote.)

That's a big Web 2.0 problem in general, and it's an excellent illustration of why mob rule is such a bad idea.

BTW, here are the top ten stories on digg right now:

DIGGERS, let's get Ron Paul on the Daily Show! Make your voices heard. Many digg readers believe there is a media conspiracy to silence the libertarian.
Google "She invented" Result Did you mean "He invented". Obligatory "Girls r stoopid" story. Read the comments.
BBC Broadcast HD-DVD key. A story about the HD-DVD key.
AACS pledges to fight Digg rebels. Another story about the HD-DVD key.
Bush administration arresting American citizens without warrants. A blog post.
Photo of chinese landscape looks just like a painting (pic!). A pretty picture.
An open letter regarding the 2008 Presidential Election (Gravel vs. Paul). Stop the MSM conspiracy.
Why Macs have "OK" buttons and not "Do It" or "Make it so". Mac history trivia.
Moment Frozen in Time: Sunset on Mars. A pretty picture.
Top 10 Signs You May Be Charging Too Little. "10 Reasons Beer is Better than Women" or whatever.

[Clutch Munny]

Internet libertarians are endlessly entertaining. I loved the comments in the Ron Paul thread.

He'd be a great president. Just look at his voting record!

Um, it looks like he voted for some pretty dumb things, and against some smart ones.

Oh, come on, you can't tell everything about the man by his voting record!

[D. Scarlatti]

BTW, here are the top ten stories on digg right now:

That was my impression, a serious signal-to-noise ratio problem. A big jumble.

[viscousmemories]

Seems to be a common problem on Internet discussion boards.

:shiftier: