No Life

[viscousmemories]

Adora made a crack about people who get tangled up in forum drama having no life, and I totally played it off like she was full of it. The thing is... don't tell her, please - it's true. I have no life. All I do is sit around the house reading and writing on forums all day. I do take breaks to go to the bathroom, eat meals and watch the occasional DVD or two.

[Last night, for example, I watched the last two DVD's of BTVS season seven. Of course: Best. Show. Ever. Keep your eyes peeled for some serious Buffy reflection around here in the not so distant future.]

But yeah, beyond that not really much going on. Not that I care much, truth be told. I had more drama before I was 20 than many people have their entire life, so I'm not too worried that I'm "missing out" on anything. I am bored, though. And becoming increasingly apathetic about my future (which honestly surprises me. I thought I was as apathetic as could be to begin with).

I quit drinking so I don't get to hang out at bars pretending the people around me are friends as I attempt to drown every last brain cell with cheap beer. I've moved so many times in the last seven years that I'm not even sure where I live now. Thank god for the 'location' field of my profile here.

Worst of all - if such a thing can be quantified - I am unemployed and broke. Quite frankly I should be living in a box - and probably would be - if not for the generosity of my friend and roommate. He makes piles of money and it doesn't cost him substantially more to accomodate me than he would be paying if he lived alone, but still we'd both prefer it if I was paying my way.

(Incidentally I've been a whore for parentheticals my whole life, so the recent discovery of using hyphens to break up sentences is really exciting for me. I'm really pleased with it.)

In addition to the stuff I read and post about here, I spend a lot of time reading articles at other sites, news items, computer tutorials, etc. I keep thinking I'll end up working in the computer field again, despite the fact that I'd rather not set foot inside a business office for the rest of my life.

Oddly I haven't been tremendously depressed or anxious overall for the last couple of months, despite having spent most of my life chronically depressed and most of the last few years having frequent panic attacks and generalized anxiety. Have you caught on yet that I'm just rambling pretty much stream of consciousness here? I hope you're not offended by the lack of a point. The title of the thread is "No Life", after all. What did you expect? Entertainment?

So anyway I'm not sure how much longer I'll be in Texas. Could be a few months, could be more or less. The key factors are 1. Will I find a job here (particularly difficult given my tendency to not look for one) 2. Will my roommate get sick of supporting me and kick me out and 3. Will my roommate choose to relocate (most recently he was looking at a possible promotion to a position in the SF Bay area) and invite me along...

All these questions and so few answers. I've been thinking it might be fun to do something radical with my life, but I don't know what. On the one hand I'd really like to help people, but on the other I really don't give a shit. I have no desire for material possessions, fame or fortune. Well okay I wouldn't mind it if someone handed me a fortune, but I'm damn sure not going to suck at Donald Trump's teat for it or sell 15-20 years of my life to a florescent cubicle.

Okay I'm bored now. I hope you got everything from this post you hoped for.

:wave:

[seebs]

I am a bear of very little life. I pitch articles, I buy computers, I write about them... If I don't have any articles to write, I could work on book revisions, but that project has been hammered into the ground by the exciting failure of my Windows box. Still recovering that.

But yeah, there are whole weeks when I have no productive work to do, or when I've sent as many proposals as I can by Monday or so.

[Godless Wonder]

(Incidentally I've been a whore for parentheticals my whole life, so the recent discovery of using hyphens to break up sentences is really exciting for me. I'm really pleased with it.)
Hehe. That's me a year ago. Except I discovered the double hyphen, or "m" dash. (as opposed to the "n" dash. The whole "m" vs. "n" being a typographical description of the width of the dash.)

And that should give you an idea of how exciting my life is.

[Nex]

Yeah... I nearly peed myself when I learned the ANSI character set. That includes little nifties like ™, ©, †, •, µ, etc. Whee.

If you're looking for something along the lines of helping people, may I suggest nursing? There's tons of specialties, from emergency to pediatrics to oncology or even neat techie stuff like laser treatment, schooling only takes about 2 years for ADN/RN, and you can move anywhere and get a job. There's tons of scholarships too.

[Lanakila]

My life has been in a holding pattern for months as I just wait for my kids to move with their father so I can move in with my partners. I have just a few days until this stage of my life is over and I move on to new adventures.

Not only am I in a holding pattern, I have been working my ass off at my job. I work for a banquet catering company and the holiday season is way beyond busy. I do love my job, but the physical aspect is starting to wear on my body (bursitus in my right elbow).

When your life is your work--and you have little outside enjoyment--and you are starved for human touch--you can honestly say you have no life.

[viscousmemories]

Excellent. Welcome to the club, seebs.

Hehe. That's me a year ago. Except I discovered the double hyphen, or "m" dash. (as opposed to the "n" dash. The whole "m" vs. "n" being a typographical description of the width of the dash.)
Verrrrry interesting. I've been seeing those around lately. I don't think I'm quite ready for that step though. I still haven't even completely shaken the parentheticals. In case I get the urge, though, can you give some usage examples?

[viscousmemories]

Yeah... I nearly peed myself when I learned the ANSI character set. That includes little nifties like ™, ©, †, •, µ, etc. Whee.
I've memorized the code for ™, but I can't do it on this laptop without using charmap 'cause I don't have a numeric keypad. :madrant:

If you're looking for something along the lines of helping people, may I suggest nursing? There's tons of specialties, from emergency to pediatrics to oncology or even neat techie stuff like laser treatment, schooling only takes about 2 years for ADN/RN, and you can move anywhere and get a job. There's tons of scholarships too.
Interesting thought, nursing. To be honest I've never considered it, but if I had to tell you why the only thing that comes to mind is that it seems too effeminate a job. Sometimes I forget how sexist I am. Nursing, huh. I'll have to definitely think about that. Sounds a bit easier than a law degree, which is another pipe dream I've been entertaining. :chin:

[freemonkey]

(Incidentally I've been a whore for parentheticals my whole life, so the recent discovery of using hyphens to break up sentences is really exciting for me. I'm really pleased with it.)
I like parentheses, too (in fact, many's the time that I have to resist the urge to put them within them (like this)). I'm also a lover of these........... what are they called? Ellipses?

[viscousmemories]

When your life is your work--and you have little outside enjoyment--and you are starved for human touch--you can honestly say you have no life.
Excellent demonstration of the double dash there. Thanks lana. :yup:

But I have to disagree. If work is your life and you have work, you have a life. :)

[Brimshack]

Well VM, you're one up on me, because I never had a life. In fact I feel quite certain that I am really a figment of Warrenly's imagination.

He really should go easier on the good stuff.

[viscousmemories]

I'm also a lover of these........... what are they called? Ellipses?
Nope. Those are called periods. An ellipsis is just three dots... :D

[Ymir's blood]

I am frequently looking for ways to use the ~tilde~ (I must confess that although the name of the IIDB forum 'Elsewhere' was my idea, it was someone else that added the ~.)

:user:

[viscousmemories]

Well VM, you're one up on me, because I never had a life.
By the time I was twenty I had been a drunk, a drop-out, a convict and a soldier. Can't say I had a life that was worth much, but it was dramatic.

In fact I feel quite certain that I am really a figment of Warrenly's imagination.

He really should go easier on the good stuff.
I was wondering why he seems to have disappeared since you've been around more.

[viscousmemories]

I am frequently looking for ways to use the ~tilde~ (I must confess that although the name of the IIDB forum 'Elsewhere' was my idea, it was someone else that added the ~.)

:user:
I can't say I'm a big fan of the tilde. Something about it is just... off.

[Nex]

Interesting thought, nursing. To be honest I've never considered it, but if I had to tell you why the only thing that comes to mind is that it seems too effeminate a job. Sometimes I forget how sexist I am. Nursing, huh. I'll have to definitely think about that. Sounds a bit easier than a law degree, which is another pipe dream I've been entertaining. :chin:
I have to admit, I'm a bit biased. I'm currently competing to get into the nursing program here at our local college. :wink:

Aw, c'mon, effeminate? It takes a real woman to stick people with needles. And get bodily fluid stains out of your scrubs. :D

[viscousmemories]

I have to admit, I'm a bit biased. I'm currently competing to get into the nursing program here at our local college. :wink:
Hmm, that's odd. I would think being a nurse requires empathy. :D

Aw, c'mon, effeminate? It takes a real woman to stick people with needles. And get bodily fluid stains out of your scrubs. :D
I used to live with this guy who was a real intellectual elitist who thought I represented the absolute dregs of society. He worked as a nurse, but he knew he was "doctor material" (for whatever that's worth). Thing is he couldn't seem to pass the... hmm... what the hell do you have to take to get into med school? If you add an 'M' in place of the 'G' in GRE you get MRE, which is Army speak for "Meal, Ready to Eat". Those vacuum packed dehydrated meals they give you to eat out in the field. Man, nothing constipates like an MRE potato pattie when you're too lazy to fetch water... :eek:

Ahem. Yeah well the doctor story was boring anyway.

[wade-w]

MCAT

[viscousmemories]

MCAT
MCAT! That's right. Hmm... Mental Competence and Tenacity?

[wade-w]

I could be wrong, but I think it's Medical College Aptitude Test.

[Desert Dweller]

While I feel the pain underlying this thread, I also like it because it is real.
I'm sorry your country is too protestant to provide the dole. It's not much but it's just enough to live on with some independence, if you're able to be disciplined. It must be so hard in the States where you HAVE to have a job.
Job BTW means Just On Broke.

Actually the case could be made that you are heros of the new financial order; you find ways to keep in keeping on outside of the usual crutch whic is having a job. The thing about the rat race is that even if you succeed, you're still a rat!

Some of you sound younger than me. Despite degrees in humanities and science I've been unemployed for 14 years and have let go of any thought of having conventional work ever again. It's an intersting and challenging path. For a while one must learn the fight the critic - that voice whic says, "you should...have a job...contribute....be responsible...." The there is the panic of the future...what will become of me? Then the gulf of time which wraps one up in its vastness until some days it's so difficult to last to the next moment.
Eventually all this passes. It does help to live out of town...where there is some nature because then it's easier to just be and feel ok about that.

Eventually when the mind, the critic, the demands of others (oh son, dad does worry about you so much...) all fade away one is left with the reality of sheer existence, without justification, without reason, without achievement and yes, that's not a bad place to arrive at. Life emerges then, with all the bullshit stipped away (you can't remain a bullshitter when you need to think about food and bed and remaining clean and clothes). The vastness of the empty day stips one back like paint peeler, until there is nothing left but what came along in the first place; that baby who was totally useless yet so loved and desired. Baby didn't have to do anything but eat, burp and shit and everyone cooeed and spoiled it. I'm not saying behave like a baby rather the emptiness (if it goes on long enough) takes one back to the state of innocence, of pure emotion, of responding directly to life rather than through a whole maze of adaptations.

Something will happen...meanwhile be where you are; feel it deeply. Allow your body to be the rhythm of the day. In the beginning it is useful to break the day up into bits....the morning beverage bit where one sits and looks at the morning with cuppa in hand and little thought, just perception. then the cleaning bit...bed made, kitchen tidied, washing done. Then the tasks time, shopping. puting out the rubbish, mowing the lawn, fixing the thing that broke. Then the reading bit... the walking bit (it's important to get some physical movement especially when there is some depression about. )
Suddenly the day has passed....

Welcome to the discovery channel. Not many can handle it but for those who can there are vast rewards. Take care, be gentle with yourself.

[viscousmemories]

Medical College Admission Test, per Google. Thank god we worked that out. :D

[viscousmemories]

Thanks for the interesting thoughts, onthedole. I like the calm, meditative quality of your posts around here, even when I don't entirely agree with your comments. :yup:

[livius drusus]

For some reason, whenever someone whips out the no life card, I always think they mean partying. It doesn't make sense, really, because people mean all kinds of things by "a life" (mainly whatever it is they have and want or don't have and want), but I've got this crazy knee-jerk association of having a life = the rugby team's Beer Practice in college or playing the tart on a dance floor.

Since I can't even imagine wanting to go down that road again, I just sort of smile at the life-flingers and move right along.

[Godless Wonder]

Excellent. Welcome to the club, seebs.

Hehe. That's me a year ago. Except I discovered the double hyphen, or "m" dash. (as opposed to the "n" dash. The whole "m" vs. "n" being a typographical description of the width of the dash.)
Verrrrry interesting. I've been seeing those around lately. I don't think I'm quite ready for that step though. I still haven't even completely shaken the parentheticals. In case I get the urge, though, can you give some usage examples?
Believe it or not, I think when you're in the UK, you use one dash, and when in the U.S., two. (Well, one dash and two dashes are the typewriter approximations of the "n" and "m" dashes. There's probably a slick way to get the real deal on screen nowadays.) Kind of like that whole million/billion fiasco (http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=define%3A+billion&btnG=Search). I don't know about usage, though, I'm probalby using my dashes wrongly as often as rightly. I think I picked this dash thing up from Douglas Hofstadter, probalby from Le Ton Beau de Marot, maybe I'll try to look it up when I get home tonight. (BTW, the indexes DRH puts in his books are kind of amazingly detailed, so I'm fairly certain that I will find multiple entries about dashes in there.)

Ooh, I found this: A Hyphen is not a Dash (http://www.grammartips.homestead.com/dash.html).

[Dingfod]

I've got more life than I can handle, I'm in over my head. I got this here Presidentness thing. Lots of things to do--brush-cuttin, bicycle wreckin, langwidge butchering--I'm a busy guy. Thank goodness for them really smart folk taken care of me like Condy and Dick... oh, and "Doughboy" Karl.


You just thought "W" stood for Walker.

[LadyShea]

VM, I don't know the real name of this profession, I just call them Vampires, but it's the person who takes blood. There aren't many good Vampires...I have small veins and usually end up getting stuck 5 times to get a draw and have huge ugly bruises. I really appreciate those who can stick me once and praise them to embarassment. Anyway, something else to look into.

Sad really that I have so much experience with these people and don't know what they're called or what training is involved. Phlebomotists comes to mind, but maybe that's the lab person that analyzes the blood and such.

[wei yau]

Phlebomotists comes to mind, but maybe that's the lab person that analyzes the blood and such.

Looks like it's a mixture of both, drawing and analysis:

Phlebomotists (http://jobprofiles.monster.com/Content/job_content/JC_health_care/JSC_HealthcareLaboratoryPathologyServices/JOB_Plebotomist/jobzilla_html?jobprofiles=1)

[pescifish]

...a drunk, a drop-out, a convict and a soldier.Surely there's a song in there somewhere!

That's Life! (Frank Sinatra) (http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/frank_sinatra/thats_life.html)
I've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet, a pawn and a king
I've been up and down and over and out and I know one thing
Each time I find myself flat on my face
I pick myself up and get back in the race

Damn, I wanna be a pirate. :pirate:
I've got the patch and the parrot, maybe it's time to buckle some swash.

When Adora says shit like that, being's as she's still living with her parents on her parents' dime, it cracks me the hell up.

livius, it never occurred to me that people mean "partying" when they say "get a life". Especially if you take the meaning of "partying" as getting so drunk or stoned as to pass out or lose total control of one's actions. If "get a life" means that, then I'm content to say I never had one.

[wei yau]

livius, it never occurred to me that people mean "partying" when they say "get a life". Especially if you take the meaning of "partying" as getting so drunk or stoned as to pass out or lose total control of one's actions. If "get a life" means that, then I'm content to say I never had one.

I've always thought that "get a life" meant that someone thought you had way more invested in a topic than what they would consider normal, however they are invested in the topic just enough to let you know that they think you are invested in it way too much.

Which at that point does make me wonder exactly who is in need of "a life".

[livius drusus]

When Adora says shit like that, being's as she's still living with her parents on her parents' dime, it cracks me the hell up.

:rofl:

livius, it never occurred to me that people mean "partying" when they say "get a life". Especially if you take the meaning of "partying" as getting so drunk or stoned as to pass out or lose total control of one's actions. If "get a life" means that, then I'm content to say I never had one.

Oh, I'm sure it doesn't mean that at all. It's just an association in my mind because "I'm getting a life" was a common answer to "what are you doing tonight?" back in my heady days of postponed schoolwork and JV squash.

[Nex]

I have to admit, I'm a bit biased. I'm currently competing to get into the nursing program here at our local college. :wink:
Hmm, that's odd. I would think being a nurse requires empathy. :D
:eyebrow:

[Adora]

When Adora says shit like that, being's as she's still living with her parents on her parents' dime, it cracks me the hell up.
Awh, isn't that cute.

Hmm, that's odd. I would think being a nurse requires empathy.
And a good back, I'm told.

[viscousmemories]

Okay thanks for the phlebotomist recommendations, but that's not gonna happen. I don't think the nursing thing is likely either. A little bird reminded me that I have an anxiety disorder that involves being fairly certain - on a regular basis - that I'm on the verge of sudden death. The last thing I need is to be in an environment that feeds that.

<an eyebrow smilie and some discouraging words...>
I'm pretty sure that post came before the shake, but in any case I was being genuinely sarcastic. I never suspected that you really lack empathy. We get very few sociopaths around here; mostly just poseurs.

(And incidentally I got the original post via e-mail 'cause of my thread subscription, so nyah-nyah and I'm sorry you've had to go through that.)

[The Lone Ranger]

Okay thanks for the phlebotomist recommendations, but that's not gonna happen. I don't think the nursing thing is likely either. A little bird reminded me that I have an anxiety disorder that involves being fairly certain - on a regular basis - that I'm on the verge of sudden death. The last thing I need is to be in an environment that feeds that.


Hmm . . . maybe you can tell us some of your likes and dislikes, and people can throw out suggestions based on that. Surely, we can collectively do better than some stupid online quiz (http://www.testcafe.com/job/?affil=).

Cheers,

Michael

[godfry n. glad]

Me? I got a "sorta" life. You know, job, home, girlfriend. I could probably have more of a life if I got my derriere up off this chair and went out and frikken exercised...but no...I get sucked into this. Literally, no sweat.

I assume there's a 12-step program out there.

And, vm, I don't know why you don't consider psychiatric nursing. It's true that nursing is one of the best growing fields for two things, pay and portability. An RN can go almost anywhere and have immediate employment. In psychiatric nursing, the focus is not as specific and tedious as phlebotomy.

Let me tell you one thing about nursing: If you sign up in a nursing program almost anywhere in the U.S., you will be in the company of intelligent, abundantly attractive and friendly females. I know, I work in a library at a health science university. We train them. Some of the nicest people I know are nurses, and I think you have to be a bit crazy to work in psychiatry, so I think you'd fit right in.

But I thought your thing was 'puters 'n' IT. Is it still?

godfry

[Ex-zombie]

. . maybe you can tell us some of your likes and dislikes, and people can throw out suggestions based on that. Surely, we can collectively do better than some stupid online quiz (http://www.testcafe.com/job/?affil=).

Cheers,

Michael


You bastard! How dare you post a link to some online test. I am a whore for online tests. I will be on that site until I have taken every last damn test they have. Hell, once I even took a test to see if I have what it takes to be a cheerleader.

[godfry n. glad]

. . maybe you can tell us some of your likes and dislikes, and people can throw out suggestions based on that. Surely, we can collectively do better than some stupid online quiz (http://www.testcafe.com/job/?affil=).

Cheers,

Michael


You bastard! How dare you post a link to some online test. I am a whore for online tests. I will be on that site until I have taken every last damn test they have. Hell, once I even took a test to see if I have what it takes to be a cheerleader.

So...You get paid?

How's that?

godfry

[viscousmemories]

Hmm... good questions. My primary likes are reading, writing, arguing, learning, computers, and psychology. My primary dislikes are corporations and repetition. I don't mind doing the most mundane tasks as long as they're varied.

Psychiatric nursing, eh? I've never even heard of that. As you implied, being insane I've naturally always wanted to work in the mental health field. What is involved with that? I honestly never even thought about the fact that working in a female dominated profession would result in being surrounded by females most of the time. I must confess that's a definite draw. :P

And yeah, all of my "professional" experience (8 years or so) is in the computer networking field, but I'm not really an IT guy anymore. I haven't had a real job in 3 or 4 years now, and I don't think I even want one. At least not if a cubicle is involved.

[Nex]

Okay thanks for the phlebotomist recommendations, but that's not gonna happen. I don't think the nursing thing is likely either. A little bird reminded me that I have an anxiety disorder that involves being fairly certain - on a regular basis - that I'm on the verge of sudden death. The last thing I need is to be in an environment that feeds that.
*nods* Understandable enough. Whatever your career choice turns out to be, I'm sure you'll do well. :yup:

<an eyebrow smilie and some discouraging words...>
I'm pretty sure that post came before the shake, but in any case I was being genuinely sarcastic. I never suspected that you really lack empathy. We get very few sociopaths around here; mostly just poseurs.
Yep, I'm a poseur sociopath, and I admit it. I do need to practice more, though... :wink:

(And incidentally I got the original post via e-mail 'cause of my thread subscription, so nyah-nyah and I'm sorry you've had to go through that.)
Thank you, I appreciate that, and it's been slowly getting better. :cool:

[viscousmemories]

Nex I didn't mean you with that poseur comment, it was a general observation. :)

And Lone Ranger that stupid quiz site wants me to pay for the answer! All they'd give me for free is that my weakest "career skill" is 'Traditional', and my strongest is 'Observational'.

I'll have to search around the 'net and see if I can form anything useful from that information.

[godfry n. glad]

Hmm... good questions. My primary likes are reading, writing, arguing, learning, computers, and psychology. My primary dislikes are corporations and repetition. I don't mind doing the most mundane tasks as long as they're varied.

Psychiatric nursing, eh? I've never even heard of that. As you implied, being insane I've naturally always wanted to work in the mental health field. What is involved with that? I honestly never even thought about the fact that working in a female dominated profession would result in being surrounded by females most of the time. I must confess that's a definite draw. :P

And yeah, all of my "professional" experience (8 years or so) is in the computer networking field, but I'm not really an IT guy anymore. I haven't had a real job in 3 or 4 years now, and I don't think I even want one. At least not if a cubicle is involved.

What's it take? Hmmm...Four year nursing degree with focus in mental health. The thing is, nursing demand is so high that the present nursing schools can't produce them fast enough. The once scorned two-year, community college programs and meeting practice exams is gaining. In a mid-sized city like Portland we have at least two 4 year nursing programs and probably four or five 2 year programs. In Houston, there are probably more considering the population base.

I did hear recently that there is a shortage in forensic scientists. This probably means the there are plans to beef up the number allowed into those programs. This takes a specific personality, whereas the nursing allows for a lot of latitude.

The course of study is heavy chemistry, biology, anatomy and physiology, and then modes and means of treatment and caring. I ride the bus every morning with a male psychiatric nurse who's worked his way 'round the world. He's originally Australian. He loves it, but says some days it's like you wish had a whip and a chair.

Gerontology is a growing field, too. Like ol' geezers like me and Socratoad? Well... there's a lot of us out there.

godfry

[The Lone Ranger]

My primary likes are reading, writing, arguing, learning, computers, and psychology. My primary dislikes are corporations and repetition. I don't mind doing the most mundane tasks as long as they're varied.
Would working in a library or some such venue be of interest? I used to work in the school library back in the day, and quite enjoyed it. Of course, shelving books can be quite a task if you're like me and can't pick up a book and not spend at least a few moments' time leafing through it.

Not that I know Thing One about the field, but if you're good with computers, are there openings for Technical Writers?

And Lone Ranger that stupid quiz site wants me to pay for the answer! All they'd give me for free is that my weakest "career skill" is 'Traditional', and my strongest is 'Observational'.


Oops! Sorry about that! I just Googled "Ideal Job" and linked to the first site I got. I'm sure there are plenty of such sites out there that're free though -- not that I'd put much faith in what they tell you though.

Cheers,

Michael

[ApostateAbe]

I have wondered about people, seebs for example, who post ten times as much as I do. How do they manage it and afford food, water and electricity at the same time? Can they really post intelligently at ten times the speed I can? Do they work only a few hours a week but are highly paid? Are they on welfare? Do they get alimony and child support checks? Do they not sleep? I want answers.

[Nex]

Nex I didn't mean you with that poseur comment, it was a general observation. :)...
You big silly-head, I was being facetious... :girltong:

...I really am a sociopath. Turnips are like that. Radishes are too, but most people don't think so because they're so cute.

Damned radish bastards.







And now that it's glaringly obvious to everyone that I need some sleep, I'll do that. 'Night! :D

[livius drusus]

My mom was a psychiatric nurse back in the late 50s, early 60s. She could tell you a thing or two about lobotomies, let me tell ya. She had a masters degree in psych nursing which she got after nursing school. I'm sure it's all different now, though.

Incidentally, even though she now has a doctorate in behavioral psych and works as student counsellor in a college, she has been offered nursing jobs based solely on her education and experience 40 years ago at 4 times her current salary. Nurses are very much in demand right now.

[JoeP]

Life, hmm. I felt I had more of a life when I had no regular job; no, make that I feel now that I had more of a life then - or alternatively, that I feel I have less of a life now (with so many waking hours consumed with frustrating stuff ... and being at beck and call of family half the time at home. Damn you're lucky).

Joe "I have more punctuation than you"

[JoeP]

...I really am a sociopath. Turnips are like that. Radishes are too, but most people don't think so because they're so cute.

Damned radish bastards.

At least you're not a cereal killer.

[JoeP]

Yeah... I nearly peed myself when I learned the ANSI character set. That includes little nifties like ™, ©, †, •, µ, etc. Whee.
I've memorized the code for ™, but I can't do it on this laptop without using charmap 'cause I don't have a numeric keypad. :madrant:

Don'tcha have one of those blue 'Fn' keys and a numeric keypad overlayed on the alpha keys? On my (still dead) HP laptop I hold down Fn+Alt and press 0-1-6-3 (actually the m-j-o-l keys) and get £. On this Mecer, I engage NumLock and hold Alt for the same effect.

(Incidentally I've been a whore for parentheticals my whole life, so the recent discovery of using hyphens to break up sentences is really exciting for me. I'm really pleased with it.)

Use those parentheticals, sir (and rejoice in m-dashes); and while you're about it, work in some semi-colons into your run-on sentences too.

I hope you're not offended by the lack of a point.
This would have been a more effective statement had it not immediately been followed by a point; you know, that period or full stop

[godfry n. glad]

Yeah... I nearly peed myself when I learned the ANSI character set. That includes little nifties like ™, ©, †, •, µ, etc. Whee.
I've memorized the code for ™, but I can't do it on this laptop without using charmap 'cause I don't have a numeric keypad. :madrant:

Don'tcha have one of those blue 'Fn' keys and a numeric keypad overlayed on the alpha keys? On my (still dead) HP laptop I hold down Fn+Alt and press 0-1-6-3 (actually the m-j-o-l keys) and get £. On this Mecer, I engage NumLock and hold Alt for the same effect.

Okay...okay...I have a standard keyboard with the numeric keypad off to the right side, as well as the top line on the alpha keypad; and above it all, the Fn keys.

So, how can I get these oh-so-neat ANSI characters?

(Incidentally I've been a whore for parentheticals my whole life, so the recent discovery of using hyphens to break up sentences is really exciting for me. I'm really pleased with it.)

Use those parentheticals, sir (and rejoice in m-dashes); and while you're about it, work in some semi-colons into your run-on sentences too.

Ah, yes... run-on sentences. Through two stints at the institution of higher learning, I had professors commend my writing style repeatedly...with one caveat. In their opinion, I needed to get over my love affair with the comma, and learn how to use periods. Repeatedly upbraided, I resorted to more semi-colons. This tended to mollify many.

Only recently have I engaged in overindulgence of ellipses and multiple periods... Ah, the sins of the parenthetical thinker.

Get a life, use semi-colons and know that there is joy in dashes and brackets.

godfry

[LadyShea]

Okay thanks for the phlebotomist recommendations, but that's not gonna happen. I don't think the nursing thing is likely either. A little bird reminded me that I have an anxiety disorder that involves being fairly certain - on a regular basis - that I'm on the verge of sudden death. The last thing I need is to be in an environment that feeds that.

Perhaps being face to face with the reality of illness vs. health would actually lessen your anxiety? Just a thought.

The only reason we are all pushing it is because the medical field is begging for good, smart people, and your schooling might be paid for. Nursing has a whole host of specialties and types of clinics you can work at, many that wouldn't put you around sick people....like infertility ;), sports medicine, cosmetic surgery $$ (lots of silicone in Texas), psychiatry as was mentioned, and I have seen more and more of those "Ask a nurse" type websites where you can work from home.

If not nursing, perhaps a technician? There are lots of computers used in medcine these days....the ultrasound machine I had regular dates with during IVF was made by GE and had very specific programming to allow measurements to be taken and notes and arrows and such to be laid over the image. XRay techs, and other technical specialties also seem to be in high demand.

[Dingfod]

Try this site (http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/accents/codealt.html), godfry.

[godfry n. glad]

My primary likes are reading, writing, arguing, learning, computers, and psychology. My primary dislikes are corporations and repetition. I don't mind doing the most mundane tasks as long as they're varied.
Would working in a library or some such venue be of interest? I used to work in the school library back in the day, and quite enjoyed it. Of course, shelving books can be quite a task if you're like me and can't pick up a book and not spend at least a few moments' time leafing through it.

Not that I know Thing One about the field, but if you're good with computers, are there openings for Technical Writers?

Michael

Well... I'm a library worker. Paraprofessional (not a librarian). I'm a pump-jockey at the knowledge station. Repetition is very prevalent. Pay is low and jobs are scarce. There are more trained librarians out there than there are jobs as librarians. However, since much of library usage is increasingly oriented toward electronic databases, online resource access, electronic reserves, and scanning technologies, someone with a technical background as library in-house technological support does better paywise than many professional librarians in the library milieu. There is heavy reliance upon information technologies in almost any library situation....Employers: Colleges, universities, hospitals, school districts, private schools, public libraries, professional organizations, large law firms, insurance companies, research institutes and, yes, any decent sized corporation.

And if you can write in clear English and communicate with those who use technospeak, then a career in technical writing would indeed be worthwhile. I have friends who are engineers and they readily admit that the engineering field seems to be cursed with the inability to adequately and clearly communicate. When they find someone who can and can get along with the engineers and other technical personnel to produce RFPs and regular project progress reports and documents, they treat them like gold. This would also include dealing with a lot less crazy people than psychiatric nursing and have a lot more varied and interesting projects than library stuff. Go to your local phone book and look up engineering firms.

godfry

[godfry n. glad]

The only reason we are all pushing it is because the medical field is begging for good, smart people, and your schooling might be paid for. Nursing has a whole host of specialties and types of clinics you can work at, many that wouldn't put you around sick people....like infertility ;), sports medicine, cosmetic surgery $$ (lots of silicone in Texas), psychiatry as was mentioned, and I have seen more and more of those "Ask a nurse" type websites where you can work from home.

If not nursing, perhaps a technician? There are lots of computers used in medcine these days....the ultrasound machine I had regular dates with during IVF was made by GE and had very specific programming to allow measurements to be taken and notes and arrows and such to be laid over the image. XRay techs, and other technical specialties also seem to be in high demand.

A big second on this. Particularly the second. You don't even need to be an x-ray tech, working with all the patients. Just take it up the equipment line and think about all the technical support that the equipment takes. Boy, does that stuff pay well. And, it's something different twelve times a day.

Even something as mundane as photocopy machine maintenance.

godfry

[godfry n. glad]

Try this site (http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/accents/codealt.html), godfry.

Thanks, warren. Or, should I say, wårn?

[viscousmemories]

Man I can't keep up with all the excellent responses. Thanks for the thought-food, everyone. Incidentally I did work in the IT department of a hospital for a couple years so I'm somewhat familiar with working in that environment. I mostly managed the servers and the network administration, but also provided desktop support for the executives, since they preferred to have someone who knew what he was doing working on their PC's. I didn't do much work in the main hospital, but I'm aware of the level to which computer technology is integrated there.

[lisarea]

Not that I know Thing One about the field, but if you're good with computers, are there openings for Technical Writers?


...
And if you can write in clear English and communicate with those who use technospeak, then a career in technical writing would indeed be worthwhile. I have friends who are engineers and they readily admit that the engineering field seems to be cursed with the inability to adequately and clearly communicate. When they find someone who can and can get along with the engineers and other technical personnel to produce RFPs and regular project progress reports and documents, they treat them like gold.

Good god, people! Are you trying to KILL HIM?

I mean, yeah, there are people who enjoy technical writing, but there are also people who enjoy being hung up by little fishing hooks in their flesh and stuff.

Technical writing is a fucking nightmare. I did it for a while some time back, and I've seriously considered that the only way to escape my ignominious past is to somehow witness a mob killing and get into the witness protection program, so that nobody would ever find out that I once used to do that. I've tried to obfuscate it on my resume, I avoid discussing it in the workplace, and I never ever express any interest at all in the subject.* But eventually someone figures it out. Maybe because someone knew me then, maybe because it kind of is there on my resume or maybe they're just fucking stalkers, but it happens. Regardless of my job title and responsibilities, periodically, someone asks me to write a manual or something. I haven't written a fucking manual in a jillion years. And when I did, every single morning, I'd wake up, groan, and do that little pantomime where you pretend that you're literally weighing two abstract concepts. "Technical writing...sweet release of death. Hmmm. Technical writing..." my arms straining under the sheer gravity of the horror that awaits me... "Sweet release of death," but what about my family? Can I leave my child an orphan? Ahhh, but there's no technical writing... but WAIT! WAIT! What if I've been wrong all along? What if when you die, you have to write product manuals for all eternity? What if you can't even stop at 5:00 (and make no mistake, the stopping was always precisely at 5:00--none of that extra-mile 5:01 bullshit)?

I can't imagine a job more tedious, more repetitive, and more prone to office politics than technical writing. It's all fresh and new for about a week, and then, it's like filling in mad libs, but even less entertaining. DIP switch positions, default settings, flow diagrams, procedure, policy. It doesn't really matter. It's all fucking trivia. You do it once, and they change it. Or maybe they were wrong in the first place, and they try to frame you. (Oh, yeah. Best part: Never talk to someone casually. Keep a paper trail of all work-related discussions, because every time someone fucks up, they'll try to frame you.)

Depending on the company, your pay range rivals the secretaries or junior programmers, but rarely approaches the "professional" level, and even then, only when you get into management and have ten years' experience. Your department is almost always a cost center, so you're first in line for layoffs, and every single time you start a new job or, in a large enough company, a new project, you get to start all over again explaining to new people that you're not the secretary, so you're not supposed to be typing their memos, taking their minutes, and getting their coffee. (Not quite as much a problem for men, but it still happens.) Oh, and contrary to popular belief, technical writing does get outsourced to India.

And just wait until you get to associate with technical writers. Endless discussions of the most pointless and inconsequential things you can imagine. Literally hours of 'debate' about shit like fonts, different kinds of paper, and whether to say "Press Enter," or "THEN press Enter." Technical writers display their dominance by memorizing arbitrary corporate style guides and clinging to the standards therein jealously. A company I worked for used to pay membership fees to the technical writers' professional society, and their quarterly (?) journal once featured a highly informative feature article discussing--and I quote--"Standard General Markup Language." To be fair, that was kind of close, and the mistake was fairly harmless. The same can't be said for the rest of the article.

Technical writing...sweet release of death...technical writing...sweet release of death...

Just avoid the question, vm.

* There is a long-story reason that I had to sort of maintain the appearance of being in a related field for a while, though, so it's a little bit my fault.

[JoeP]

those "Ask a nurse" type websites where you can work from home.

And www.askvm.com is free! This sounds like a perfect match!

[Desert Dweller]

Gosh VM I bet you wish you'd never typed your OP....now there are possibilites pouring everywhere over the page. A Nurse? A technician? A librarian? Oldies carer? Psych nurse?
Librarians are nice but it's not a growth industry like all the others. the others will take you everywhere in the English speaking world so go for one of those.
That is if you decide to forsake your true calling of helping to bring down the system and scurry back into the invisible realms of the rat race. (he he)

[godfry n. glad]

Good god, people! Are you trying to KILL HIM?

I mean, yeah, there are people who enjoy technical writing, but there are also people who enjoy being hung up by little fishing hooks in their flesh and stuff.

<big snip - to horrific to replicate>

Technical writing...sweet release of death...technical writing...sweet release of death...

* There is a long-story reason that I had to sort of maintain the appearance of being in a related field for a while, though, so it's a little bit my fault.

I guess.

I'd say you were mismatched, but honey, that input is good stuff.

Hoooooey....I'd never do that. But then, it's the office politics part that puts me off. I've been through so much of it. I was a lead steward with one of the unions at my university....I had to quit because of my blood pressure. I really wonder if there is ever an escape from "office politics".

Y'know, vm...

I'd say that you should check into the thing that you do that you like, or enjoy, or whatever, that a lot of other people don't like to do. To me, having to deal with the vagaries of my home computer are an annoyance. I don't know how to deal with software and/or hardware problems on my computer. You seem to be very adept at it. Could you, or have you, offered your services as an independent techie? Entrepenuerial and all?

I hated it, but I like a bit of structure.

The stuff that lisarea described sounded like typical corporate heirarchy bullshit...it happens almost everywhere. The trick is finding decent people to work with, really. I started out intent on being an attorney. Two years of college "pre-law", I bagged it. I would have been too conflicted. It demanded something I could not provide.

Library work is a dead end. Really. Everybody wants to work in a library. That's why the pay is so low. And everything's going electronic. Bookstores are the same way, only affected more by the profit motive. I have no profit motive, but a cost control and public accountability motive. My job is on the block every legislative session. So are our professional librarians' jobs.

godfry

[Desert Dweller]

While the efforts to make sensible suggestions of occupation are well intended and I guess caring in a way, they do miss a point. This point is starting to sneak through since Lisrea gave her spirited soliloquy on technical writing.

I also sense in the OP a question about meaning or purpose. So I also want to regard the positive aspects of the current 'useless seeming' lifestyle sans job, sans own home, sans the options money provides.

I can see some enormous benefit in this state. Most people define themselves by their job. It used to be until recvently that "what d' yer do?" was a standard question when you met someone. The two involved would define themselves to one another via the job they did. Oh you're a plumber...hey I've got this blocked dunny.....or, so you're a computer tech....hey I just got a computer from the supermarket.....will you come and teach me how to use it, and stick lots of free promgames on it for me?

In the last age, the industrial or machine age, what one did was relevant. That age is passing. The trouble was it ignored 'how do you be?"

So VM what about asking yourself if you value yourself for who you are and nothing else? Are you good enought to be allowed to exist without any justification whatsoever; to simply participate in your daily being?
Are you content being who you are? If not then what better time to look at how you be and move it to where you want to be. These are IMO far more important than being a psych nurse or whatever, just to earn money.
Someone becoming happy with their being is a tremendous contribution to modern life. It's a huge achievement, self acceptance! And then, oh horror,
self regard, esteem, love!
With these the question of what to do come automatically. It's just that 'doing' is so stressed in this culture that we;ve forgotten that we are beings first and foremost.

I wish you the willingness to find out how much you are happy being, just for its own sake, not conditional upon anything else at all. Just because you are you, and you're unique.

[godfry n. glad]

Yeah... ain't it the shits?

Do...Be...Do...Be...Do

It's exhausting shifting paradigms all the time.
So, just roll up a doobie and let it be.

....man.

godfry

[godfry n. glad]

Hey, vm...Do you want concrete suggestions or self-validation?

Let us know, 'cause I'll shut up if I'm off base.

godfry

[Desert Dweller]

Godfrey I'll shut up if I'm off base. you're stoned!

[seebs]

Technical writing is a fucking nightmare.

Oddly, I really enjoy it.

I can't imagine a job more tedious, more repetitive, and more prone to office politics than technical writing.

I think it depends a lot on the employer. Technical writing at Wind River was decent almost all the time, except the one time a product slipped by a week twice, and both times, we were given about two weeks' work to do in that week.

Depending on the company, your pay range rivals the secretaries or junior programmers, but rarely approaches the "professional" level, and even then, only when you get into management and have ten years' experience.

I don't know about other places. I was nominally an engineer, on the low end of the food chain, and they kept paying me that, but I understand that's because the company was doing layoffs left and right, and they actually wanted to give me a raise.

Technical writing...sweet release of death...technical writing...sweet release of death...

Just avoid the question, vm.

* There is a long-story reason that I had to sort of maintain the appearance of being in a related field for a while, though, so it's a little bit my fault.

Heh.

It depends a lot. One thing is, really good technical writers are moderately rare. In particular, there's a lot of good technicians who can write a little, and a lot of good writers who understand a little tech, but someone who can, say, write a real article about kernel debugging? Not so many of those.

I'm actually doing pretty much nothing but technical writing right now, and I really enjoy it. I would probably hate an office job of it, but... As piece work, it's excellent, especially if you're fast. My theoretical pay rate for actual time spent working is probably around $500/hour, although it's hard to get much work... I can get more if I'm willing to take less glorious work, such as editing. (And technical editing can be a very challenging job, believe me.)

[godfry n. glad]

I'm actually doing pretty much nothing but technical writing right now, and I really enjoy it. I would probably hate an office job of it, but... As piece work, it's excellent, especially if you're fast. My theoretical pay rate for actual time spent working is probably around $500/hour, although it's hard to get much work... I can get more if I'm willing to take less glorious work, such as editing. (And technical editing can be a very challenging job, believe me.)

Ah, yes, I had a friend who did indexing for books. Freelance. Similar challenge.

I find that level of focus amazing, myself.

godfry

[seebs]

Mmm, freelance indexing would be an AWESOME job. I would love it to pieces. I really enjoy indexing. <-- sick

[Desert Dweller]

I really enjoy indexing.
Well the thread is titled, "No Life"

[seebs]

I really enjoy indexing.
Well the thread is titled, "No Life"

Hah!

Yeah, well, writing is sort of a pathetic job in some ways.

But hey, why am I wasting time interacting with people? I have a 2000 word column on building robot submarines that I could be editing!

[HelenM]

Someone becoming happy with their being is a tremendous contribution to modern life.

I don't see how one person becoming happy with their being contributes directly to 'modern life'. Indirectly it may lead to a tremendous contribution because happy people behave differently from unhappy ones.

It's a huge achievement, self acceptance! And then, oh horror,
self regard, esteem, love!
With these the question of what to do come automatically. It's just that 'doing' is so stressed in this culture that we;ve forgotten that we are beings first and foremost.

But realistically, I don't think people are happy just 'being'. Happy people are people who do things. Their value doesn't come from the doing and yet people feel happier when they have a sense of purpose and they can see they're making some sort of contribution. That's how I am and I know that's how other people are too.

I wish you the willingness to find out how much you are happy being, just for its own sake, not conditional upon anything else at all. Just because you are you, and you're unique.

I hope vm can find happiness and I agree that happiness which is conditioned on external things we can't control can be fleeting and unreliable. Nevertheless I don't think anyone finds happiness by just 'being'. I think they find it as they get involved in life, they take control of what they can and should control (themselves) and they let go of what they can't.

onthedole, I don't know how you support yourself; if you're financially independent then of course you don't need a job to provide for yourself. But if you needed money, I think you'd be happier providing for yourself than living off someone else's money. It doesn't feel good to be dependent on others when we don't have to be.

Helen

[Dingfod]

onthedole, I don't know how you support yourself; if you're financially independent then of course you don't need a job to provide for yourself. But if you needed money, I think you'd be happier providing for yourself than living off someone else's money. It doesn't feel good to be dependent on others when we don't have to be.

HelenHelen, onthedole is "on the dole", meaning:
3. Chiefly British. The distribution by the government of relief payments to the unemployed; welfare.

Warren

[JoeP]

But realistically, I don't think people are happy just 'being'. Happy people are people who do things. Their value doesn't come from the doing and yet people feel happier when they have a sense of purpose and they can see they're making some sort of contribution. That's how I am and I know that's how other people are too.
That's well said Helen. Especially the aspect of doing not just being. (There's some truth that people who only do and never take the time to just be end up not being happy through stress or loss of identity - but there must be some doing with personal value.)

I'm less sure that the personal value of the "doing" (doing doing :tigger: ) has to be "contribution" - implicitly, contribution to other individuals or to society as a whole. I get a lot of satisfaction from doing creative things, like developing software, writing, or taking photographs. In fact, art in general is a form of doing whose happiness value to the doer can be the same even if the work is never shown to anyone else. Another example might be gardening. You can see the results and maybe even eat them, but a herbaceous border in a private back garden isn't really any kind of contribution.

joe

[HelenM]

Helen, onthedole is "on the dole", meaning:
3. Chiefly British. The distribution by the government of relief payments to the unemployed; welfare.

Warren

Silly me - I even know what that means; I spent the first 22 years of my life in England.

For some reason I thought he (?) lived in Australia or Africa and that confused me out of applying "on the dole" in the way I normally would.

Helen

[HelenM]

I'm less sure that the personal value of the "doing" (doing doing :tigger: ) has to be "contribution" - implicitly, contribution to other individuals or to society as a whole. I get a lot of satisfaction from doing creative things, like developing software, writing, or taking photographs. In fact, art in general is a form of doing whose happiness value to the doer can be the same even if the work is never shown to anyone else. Another example might be gardening. You can see the results and maybe even eat them, but a herbaceous border in a private back garden isn't really any kind of contribution.

joe

Good point. I was using the word 'contribution' because onthedole did, but I hadn't thought it through to the point of considering the sense of fulfillment that comes from personal artistic expression.

Helen

[Sweetie]

My personal definition of "having a life" means the amount of vitality you have, and the amount the people you surround yourself with have. In that sense, kids are vital especially when they are older, their life experiences, them having children is all vitality, it's being alive, having life around you though you could have kids and have no vitality, so I find that having kids, having something to do, and having friends and the occasional outburst of fun and energy is having a life.

I do certaintly think though, that everybody needs something worthwhile to do and there is way more to life than offices and computers, I think many people totally disdain any sort of blue collar work these days. Go build a house or something, become an electrician, I've always wanted to be an electrician I just can't handle the heavy labour end of it with all the wires and the heights. Sitting around doing nothing is begging for depression in my eyes. My friend didn't work for a few years and had a son at home and was so worried about leaving her son, went day in and day out depression, her sleeping patterns were all off, she never worked enough during the day to get a good night's sleep, she had very little social interaction, was sitting around gaining weight, I said, go get a job. "No, no, no, it's too scary, or it won't work, or it's too hard," but she went to school for a year and went to work, she figured declaring bankrupcy meant that she might have to do something of the sort and the depression is gone and all that. People need something to do, that's just the way it is. Have kids, have a garden, help the poor, build a house, landscape, whatever it is. A friend of mine cleared $15,000 Canadian in one month just putting up Christmas lights for people who were too busy or too lazy to do it themselves. Do some renovations for your friends, whatever it takes.

[viscousmemories]

Hey, vm...Do you want concrete suggestions or self-validation?

Let us know, 'cause I'll shut up if I'm off base.

Actually I wasn't looking for either, I was just rambling. So far I've really enjoyed all the concrete suggestions and validation, though.

I hate to say it, but until yesterday it honestly never occurred to me to go into a traditional career (like nursing) because good nurses are needed. My career deliberations have always been purely about what I want and need as an individual, not what society needs. I'm glad onthedole is here to affirm that such a selfish view isn't an exclusively American phenomenon. :D

But like I said in my OP, sometimes I really want to help people and sometimes I don't give a shit. That wasn't meant to be as flippant as it sounds. I truly can't decide if I'm a sentimental nihilist or a cynical humanitarian. Or something else I can't define or describe. In other words I can't decide if I should care whether I contribute anything to humankind.

Eh... I'm just in a mood I guess. It was 70 here yesterday and we have sleet and gusting winds today.

Damn weird State, this Texas.

[Sweetie]

That's kinda funny though, a family I knew just picked up and moved to Texas a few years ago because the pay for nursing was so much better, they just bring in cash so they just picked up and moved.

I would say though, that whether or not you care about other humans this day or that day doesn't change the fact that it's healthy or necessary for human beings to be doing something. You don't have to feel like helping people to become a nurse, you get paid big money to do it, you might just have to have an interest in well, making good money.

Exercise is always good of course, just FYI. I find that a healthy mind is often dependent upon a healthy body. I remember I was so pissed at this girl in my class, was great at everything, diving, gymnastics, basketball and volley ball and had excellent grades and I bitched about it to my Mom, she said of course there is some connection between a healthier body and a healthier mind and your overall well being.

[Sweetie]

All I know is that anything I would want to do on the business end, finance, accounting, computers, secretarial work, maybe even a lawyer I could do without question, I'd just have to get some schooling in, but fuck that. It wouldn't be good for me to sit behind a fricken desk all day, I'd rather make less money and be healthier. I'm leaning toward psychology at present.

[Shake]

Awright, I got about two pages into this thread and I think I've seen all I need to put in my 2¢. (I'll probably go back and read the rest later.)

I keep thinking I'll end up working in the computer field again, despite the fact that I'd rather not set foot inside a business office for the rest of my life.

Oddly I haven't been tremendously depressed or anxious overall for the last couple of months, despite having spent most of my life chronically depressed and most of the last few years having frequent panic attacks and generalized anxiety. Have you caught on yet that I'm just rambling pretty much stream of consciousness here? I hope you're not offended by the lack of a point. The title of the thread is "No Life", after all. What did you expect? Entertainment?

... <and then in a later post> ...

And yeah, all of my "professional" experience (8 years or so) is in the computer networking field, but I'm not really an IT guy anymore. I haven't had a real job in 3 or 4 years now, and I don't think I even want one. At least not if a cubicle is involved.
Two words: construction work. My motivation for those two words are another set: Office Space.

Besides, if you think about it, sure it can be repetitive, but there are lots of different things to learn in such a field. So, as go from project to project, you'll be doing different things and learning about them. Also, you get the satisfaction of doing something tangible that you can show others.

"See that?" you'll say. "I built that."

Your friends will be impressed. Well, I would anyways. Or, I always thought the opposite -- demolition, that is -- would be pretty cool!

[lisarea]

It depends a lot. One thing is, really good technical writers are moderately rare. In particular, there's a lot of good technicians who can write a little, and a lot of good writers who understand a little tech, but someone who can, say, write a real article about kernel debugging? Not so many of those.

I'm actually doing pretty much nothing but technical writing right now, and I really enjoy it. I would probably hate an office job of it, but... As piece work, it's excellent, especially if you're fast. My theoretical pay rate for actual time spent working is probably around $500/hour, although it's hard to get much work... I can get more if I'm willing to take less glorious work, such as editing. (And technical editing can be a very challenging job, believe me.)

So, my kneejerk reaction there was, "Yeah, but that's not technical writing!"

But, of course, it is. In fact, it sounds like what you're doing is at least passingly similar to what I do by choice (when I'm working, which isn't much lately).

The way I'm definining 'technical writing' is primarily in terms of job title. At least in these parts, and at least in the industries I mostly work in, jobs called "Technical Writer" are user manual-writing jobs, with forays into formatting technical documents. Technical writers don't write white papers, but maybe they edit them. They don't establish standards, but write down what someone else tells them.

So, I'm thinking, "When was doing wriring white papers and articles and stuff, what was I called?" and I can't remember. I don't usually have a title when I'm doing freelance or even contract work. I did that kind of thing, peripherally, as an Information Architect, but it was a sideline. I've been a "Systems Engineer" a couple of times, but the term was almost meaningless as it was applied in those cases. I was something like the "Lead Technical Marketing Director" or something once. I've had to make up my own titles at least twice. Sometimes, bigger companies will have a catchall term with "information development" in it, but that's just crazy sounding to me. I can't imagine what that's supposed to mean. I see it a lot, though. No wonder people think I'm evasive when they ask me what I do. I don't know what to call it. To find the jobs I look for, I have to look for about seventy bajillion different keywords and just eyeball them. If they're CALLED "technical writer," though, they get culled.

But you're right, goddammit. A lot of that stuff is technical writing.

So, my initial reaction was that maybe I just have the PTSD about the term 'technical writing,' but that's not entirely it. The jobs called "technical writer," again, at least in the industries I'm familiar with, and in my area, are pretty consistently just translating jobs. Translating system specs to user guides, translating requirements to marketing documents, looking at a prototype and writing down what it does, etc., and rewriting and reformatting information that other people have provided you. It's basically just taking something someone else in the company gives you and prettying it up.

The other kind, which I still do (again, when I'm working, which is not now) involves broader, more conceptual stuff, and more often than not, it's just a part of an overall job description, at least as a fulltime thing. It's more like you're creating the information yourself than you are just rewording something someone else has developed.

In short, you have an excellent point. Technical writing does not, in and of itself, suck. Some of it is fun and challenging and interesting, much of it pays well and can be done relatively autonomously. The job title "Technical Writer," though, usually just means "Everybody's Bitch."

As such, I still warn vm to avoid anything CALLED "Technical writing." But by all means, he should look into "technical marketing information systems architecture development engineering" related programs and activities.

And, of course, uh, indexing. (I rarely resort to emoticons, but in this case, I feel as though I have little choice.) :eek:

[JoeP]

sometimes I really want to help people and sometimes I don't give a shit.
True for many of us.

I often want to help people, until I find out how hard they make it. :yawn:

[Sweetie]

sometimes I really want to help people and sometimes I don't give a shit.
True for many of us.

I often want to help people, until I find out how hard they make it. :yawn:

No kidding, hey? There's that expression too, "No good deed goes unpunished."

That's why I don't think it's about helping others but about helping yourself which is usually of primary concern to most, an adequate if selfish motivation, but then they all are selfish motivations.

I knew this guy and he so needed a friend, but needing a friend meant long-term needing validation, hand-holding, motivating, doing his thinking and intellectual work/research for him and an unexhaustable amount of emotional energy from me. I just don't have alot of emotional energy to share and if I help someone, it is only as a hand up to get them to the point so that they can help themselves. I had to gently cut the cord before I let him drain me completely which is just self-protection, and a little cruel, but what else is one to do? It was a "look what I got myself into this time," kinda thing and I'm still not sure whether me in his life as a friend ended up being more productive than it was damaging, but I have to try and can only do what I think is right at any given time. Either way though, it is good for me to be a helpful and giving person and I know it, that experience didn't change that, I just know when the good part of it starts to become harmful and I try to stay within those limits though sometimes those limits aren't definable, it's a gamble.

[seebs]

Note that I don't really object to the prettying-stuff-up work, if I can get it. As long as people aren't asses about it. I was lucky; I did this with one of the best managers ever. Great guy. Doubled the productivity of an entire department, not by trying to push us to work, but by keeping the company off our backs so we could.

[Desert Dweller]

Hmm where to start...HelenM I enjoyed the contradictions in your post. e.g
Their value doesn't come from the doing or that happiness which is conditioned on external things we can't control can be fleeting and unreliable. Nevertheless I don't think anyone finds happiness by just 'being'.
But i don't want to knock what you've said. You spoke from the 'normal' 'commonsense' point of view. Also you spoke from within a culture which is governed by a 'Prodestant work - ethic' so it would be very difficult to know what's outside of that.
My point was that VM IS unemployed at present, for last 3 years. Now he can do what most do in this circumstance which is to yield to adictive tendencies and loose touch with ordinary life; or he can use the time to really check out how much he knows/likes/approves of/ himself. Let me assure you that no one on their deathbed says "I wish I'd spent more time working".
It's a unique opportunity to achieve what people who work all their life never have. The sheer incidence of depression in the west (UN claims it will soon be the second biggest medical problem) is an indicator that people do not know themselves deeply, do not approve of themselves deeply.

I want to respond to your statement I think you'd be happier providing for yourself than living off someone else's money. It doesn't feel good to be dependent on others when we don't have to be.
Firstly Helen I have absolutely no problem taking the dole and I don't see it as other peoples' money...it is my human right to have income. I have degrees in humanities and science plus some post grad certificates. I have a permanent grading in martial arts and taught them for a long time. I am not a lazy or stupid person. It is the fault of the economy that my efforts to gain a job were in vain. There are a lot of men like me...out of the workforce and no chance of getting back in. So I have no qualms about taking what is my right.
What these years have taught me is that identification with 'doing' is short-lived and identificatio with 'being' is far more valuable.

VM wrote My career deliberations have always been purely about what I want and need as an individual, not what society needs. I'm glad onthedole is here to affirm that such a selfish view isn't an exclusively American phenomenon. Firstly VM I don't understand how you separate yourself from society; if it's good for you then it's good for the society (talking legal activites here) Secondly,'selfish' is not just a negative state because if you can't learn to satisy yourself then you'll never satisfy anyone else. If you can't like/love yourself then you'll not love anyone else. In a sense unless we also learn to be 'selfish' we'll get nowhere because it all starts and ends with our self. I'm not saying don't think of others, rather realise while you have the opportunity, that you also have to please yourself or you'll live a false life trying to please others. Sweetie came close when she said That's why I don't think it's about helping others but about helping yourself which is usually of primary concern to most, an adequate if selfish motivation, but then they all are selfish motivations.

So we're not taliing about the greedy person who takes everything for him/her self..ie the normal meaning of selfish...we're talking about trully giving to yourself so that you are able to contribute to others. That's why you said
sometimes I really want to help people and sometimes I don't give a shit. I suggest you don't give at shit at those times, about yourself!

Conclusion: would I prefer to express myself in work. yes. Is it my doing that the system doesn't want people of my age? No. Is living without work and income easy...hell no, it is the most difficult thing I could imagine however the rewards ultimately are great because one either gives in or gains a self-knowledge which would never have been gained otherwise.
Do I think the system which wasted my working capacity is stupid? Yes.
So VM use the time wisely...you may not get it again.

[HelenM]

Hmm where to start...HelenM I enjoyed the contradictions in your post. e.g
Their value doesn't come from the doing or that happiness which is conditioned on external things we can't control can be fleeting and unreliable. Nevertheless I don't think anyone finds happiness by just 'being'.

Please explain what the contradictions are rather than simply asserting there are some.

But i don't want to knock what you've said. You spoke from the 'normal' 'commonsense' point of view. Also you spoke from within a culture which is governed by a 'Prodestant work - ethic' so it would be very difficult to know what's outside of that.

I spoke from my experience (and the experience of others), which is that people who do things feel more fulfilled. I wasn't simply repeating some dogma of my culture.

My point was that VM IS unemployed at present, for last 3 years. Now he can do what most do in this circumstance which is to yield to adictive tendencies and loose touch with ordinary life; or he can use the time to really check out how much he knows/likes/approves of/ himself. Let me assure you that no one on their deathbed says "I wish I'd spent more time working".

I'm sure a lot of people have regrets about how they spent their time; they may not say they wish they'd worked more, per se, but they may wish they had done certain things they didn't take time to do. Some of those may be considered 'work'.

It's a unique opportunity to achieve what people who work all their life never have. The sheer incidence of depression in the west (UN claims it will soon be the second biggest medical problem) is an indicator that people do not know themselves deeply, do not approve of themselves deeply.

See, I think that can lead people in the wrong direction. Depressed people can be helped by being distracted from thinking about themselves and one way of doing that is for them to get involved and busy doing things that they find fulfilling. More introspection doesn't achieve that; it merely postpones it.

I want to respond to your statement [QUOTE]I think you'd be happier providing for yourself than living off someone else's money. It doesn't feel good to be dependent on others when we don't have to be.
Firstly Helen I have absolutely no problem taking the dole and I don't see it as other peoples' money...it is my human right to have income. I have degrees in humanities and science plus some post grad certificates. I have a permanent grading in martial arts and taught them for a long time. I am not a lazy or stupid person. It is the fault of the economy that my efforts to gain a job were in vain. There are a lot of men like me...out of the workforce and no chance of getting back in. So I have no qualms about taking what is my right.

If you think it's your right then...so be it. You say you tried to look for work and couldn't find any and I have no basis for not believing you.

What these years have taught me is that identification with 'doing' is short-lived and identification with 'being' is far more valuable.

I don't think you understand me if you think I'm saying people should 'identify' with 'doing' as if their value is in the doing. I'm not; rather, I'm saying that doing helps people be happy - in my opinion and experience.

Helen

[godfry n. glad]

I'd say I do in order to be comfortably. If I didn't do in exchange for remuneration, then I'd be somebody else's burden. I'd rather do and become self-sufficient rather than rely on the kindness of friends and family. But that's just being me.

As for the dole, well...I dunno. I hated it. But I'm one of those who suffers from Protestant work ethic. I like to be busy. Involved.

Besides, who says that being and doing have to be mutually exclusive? Why can't one be while doing? Or do while being?

godfry


Hey! I ordered a cheeseburger! ~ Gary Larson

[Desert Dweller]

Hello Helen,
thank you for responding.
May I take your opening par I don't see how one person becoming happy with their being contributes directly to 'modern life'. Indirectly it may lead to a tremendous contribution because happy people behave differently from unhappy ones.
For me the contradiction lies: in the first sentence happiness doesn't contribure to moden life. Then in the second sentence it does contribure, althougth indirectly. (I don't think I intended any distinction between directly and indirectly)

first of all let me explain that I am not a 'normal' person. 14 years of unemploymrnt has seen to that. Right now I am home, 100 acres of rainforest, no other houses in sight. 3000' below is a little town of about 1000 people.
In short I am in isolation. I have lived 'in nature' for about a decade.

I agree with what you are saying. It is generally true that people DO TEND to be happier when they are occupied. The Devil and idle hands ....
I want to support your view for a moment. Your comments are kind, caring and sensible (ie fit the contemporary society).
Contemporary society has many invisible assumptions: defintion of 'work', what is praised and what is not (e.g. it appears that 'making it financially' is very valued in the USA and becoming unemployed is not.)

Now for a moment I ask you to step mentally out of that framework.
ViscousMemories and I ARE unemployed. I'll speak for myself, as I've had longer than VM to reflect on 'NO LIFE", the theme of our thread.

I went through the stages: stage one - new flash CV, expensively produced applications, delivered in plastic outer sheet....apply apply apply...
Stage 2 Deal with emotion effect of being ignored (most didn't even respond) or being rejected.
State 3 bounced...I gained a new impetus...retrained, got a masters degree...completed a commercial course in writing. Back to applications...more careful this time, further refinement of CV...better targeting.....
Stage 4 is like 2 but heavier this time. I accepted that the data produced by the relevant agencies was right. Men over 40 are not employed when a young person of 20 or, the job has been broken into P/T work (casual is cheaper for the employer, no sick leave, superannuation, or holiday pay) and thus it tends to go to women.
Stage 5 was despair for me. I couldn't have felt more useless if I tried. The reality than a male commits suicide ,in our nation of 20 m, almost everyday- it's about 6 a week for men and four times lower for women).
Stage 6 I was still alive...I couldn't just not be there....by now the idea of a conventional job is impossible. I was enemployable in the new system. For each position created there are a minimum of 30 applications. Anyway I wouldn't want to be engaged in a bank, or macdonalds, or a phone factory (call centre). I would not want to advance the cause of patriachy at all ... so all the male centres of power were out (church, law, military, government/administration, physics labs, ...)
Stage 7 I worked for 10 years as a volunteer...mostly mens business, getting to experience the emergence of a mens' movement...oh so fragile yet...then it wasn't possible to continue because it costs money to volunteer (transport, clothing, lunch)
stage 8....was for me all about reflection. one morning I remember waking up, going onto my little verandah viewing the trees and the mountain, and asking myself what would happen if I jsut sat there all day? (you need to understand that learning to live with nothing you have to do every day is quite a trip!) Suddenly it was evening and I felt so good in everything...it was a wonderful stage to unhabit. So I did that for quite a while. meanwhile my kids grew up and the rest of my former savings had gone on a decade's worth of kids cost (may daugher graduated and now is a arts editor for a big mag; and my son plays soccer, about to go to England for assesement, coaching...he's got one year to go in school)

I suspect I am about stage 9 now. I my twenties I wanted to change the world. I my thirtes i wanted to change society. In my 40s I became unemployed (my last job BTW was as State Manager of large Corp..new car, amex card for lunches, underground parking in the city, an office which is the original Men's Club in Sydney. Built in 1880-81 it is a three storey Italianate building, fire palaces in each room, 6 ' paintings, cavouisiere, cognac,cigars, polished sideboards, deep pile carpet) and during my 50s I realise how very difficult it is to change myself!
As I am time rich I get to at least take serious regard to that proposition- changing myself. This involves years of critical viewing of the assumptions I was accepting.

Perhaps you see the predicament. Many things change. I once had a house and the whole catastrope... I had lots to defend. So competitive...the business I was in.
Now I own nothing and I have nothing to defend. I can't be manipulated by threat of loss of..... I can say and be how I choose because there is nothing anyone can take away from me.

For me this is reality. I won't tell you the stats of unemployment...it's much deeper than anyone would imagine, and I haven't got the emotional energy to have all the employed people reading this post go through the predicable refutations (anyone can get work if they try hard enought....)
I have to deal with it. ViscousMemories is having to deal with it.

What would you suggest? I found that personal liberation is the most important thing to me. I seek to know myself so that there are no more surprises...I know all the little, dark, long-rooted neuroses within myself...

I am like a primitive person. They spend up to 90% of the day in ritual. For me being here online is like that. A ritual I can participate in because I am time rich. I suspect I see a lot of things more clearly, simply because I've clambered out of the valleys of work and achievement, to the slopes with a wider, more embrasing view. I have no vested interests left...(not true as there are emotional ones) ...in the outside world. It does what it does.

Let me know if you now get that I wasn't picking on you (contradictions etc)
and was addressing VM, who right now is unemployed and I have the impressioin is in his late 20s, still young. This time for him can be terrible or liberating so I wante to speak for the less spoken of perspective.

[HelenM]

Hello Helen,
thank you for responding.
May I take your opening par I don't see how one person becoming happy with their being contributes directly to 'modern life'. Indirectly it may lead to a tremendous contribution because happy people behave differently from unhappy ones.
For me the contradiction lies: in the first sentence happiness doesn't contribure to moden life. Then in the second sentence it does contribure, althougth indirectly.

There's no contradiction: I said, it doesn't contribute directly; it may contribute indirectly. You seem to have missed the word 'directly' in my first sentence.

(I don't think I intended any distinction between directly and indirectly)

Perhaps not. To me it's an important distinction.

first of all let me explain that I am not a 'normal' person. 14 years of unemploymrnt has seen to that. Right now I am home, 100 acres of rainforest, no other houses in sight. 3000' below is a little town of about 1000 people.
In short I am in isolation. I have lived 'in nature' for about a decade.

I agree with what you are saying. It is generally true that people DO TEND to be happier when they are occupied. The Devil and idle hands ....
I want to support your view for a moment. Your comments are kind, caring and sensible (ie fit the contemporary society).
Contemporary society has many invisible assumptions: defintion of 'work', what is praised and what is not (e.g. it appears that 'making it financially' is very valued in the USA and becoming unemployed is not.)

Now for a moment I ask you to step mentally out of that framework.
ViscousMemories and I ARE unemployed. I'll speak for myself, as I've had longer than VM to reflect on 'NO LIFE", the theme of our thread.

I went through the stages: stage one - new flash CV, expensively produced applications, delivered in plastic outer sheet....apply apply apply...
Stage 2 Deal with emotion effect of being ignored (most didn't even respond) or being rejected.
State 3 bounced...I gained a new impetus...retrained, got a masters degree...completed a commercial course in writing. Back to applications...more careful this time, further refinement of CV...better targeting.....
Stage 4 is like 2 but heavier this time. I accepted that the data produced by the relevant agencies was right. Men over 40 are not employed when a young person of 20 or, the job has been broken into P/T work (casual is cheaper for the employer, no sick leave, superannuation, or holiday pay) and thus it tends to go to women.
Stage 5 was despair for me. I couldn't have felt more useless if I tried. The reality than a male commits suicide ,in our nation of 20 m, almost everyday- it's about 6 a week for men and four times lower for women).
Stage 6 I was still alive...I couldn't just not be there....by now the idea of a conventional job is impossible. I was enemployable in the new system. For each position created there are a minimum of 30 applications. Anyway I wouldn't want to be engaged in a bank, or macdonalds, or a phone factory (call centre). I would not want to advance the cause of patriachy at all ... so all the male centres of power were out (church, law, military, government/administration, physics labs, ...)
Stage 7 I worked for 10 years as a volunteer...mostly mens business, getting to experience the emergence of a mens' movement...oh so fragile yet...then it wasn't possible to continue because it costs money to volunteer (transport, clothing, lunch)
stage 8....was for me all about reflection. one morning I remember waking up, going onto my little verandah viewing the trees and the mountain, and asking myself what would happen if I jsut sat there all day? (you need to understand that learning to live with nothing you have to do every day is quite a trip!) Suddenly it was evening and I felt so good in everything...it was a wonderful stage to unhabit. So I did that for quite a while. meanwhile my kids grew up and the rest of my former savings had gone on a decade's worth of kids cost (may daugher graduated and now is a arts editor for a big mag; and my son plays soccer, about to go to England for assesement, coaching...he's got one year to go in school)

I suspect I am about stage 9 now. I my twenties I wanted to change the world. I my thirtes i wanted to change society. In my 40s I became unemployed (my last job BTW was as State Manager of large Corp..new car, amex card for lunches, underground parking in the city, an office which is the original Men's Club in Sydney. Built in 1880-81 it is a three storey Italianate building, fire palaces in each room, 6 ' paintings, cavouisiere, cognac,cigars, polished sideboards, deep pile carpet) and during my 50s I realise how very difficult it is to change myself!
As I am time rich I get to at least take serious regard to that proposition- changing myself. This involves years of critical viewing of the assumptions I was accepting.

Perhaps you see the predicament. Many things change. I once had a house and the whole catastrope... I had lots to defend. So competitive...the business I was in.
Now I own nothing and I have nothing to defend. I can't be manipulated by threat of loss of..... I can say and be how I choose because there is nothing anyone can take away from me.

For me this is reality. I won't tell you the stats of unemployment...it's much deeper than anyone would imagine, and I haven't got the emotional energy to have all the employed people reading this post go through the predicable refutations (anyone can get work if they try hard enought....)
I have to deal with it. ViscousMemories is having to deal with it.

What would you suggest?

I couldn't live the way you live so I don't feel that I can relate to you enough to know what to suggest.

(I did read what you shared about your life, but I didn't have any particular comments; that's why I left it as one big quote)

I found that personal liberation is the most important thing to me. I seek to know myself so that there are no more surprises...I know all the little, dark, long-rooted neuroses within myself...

I've come to the conclusion that a quest to 'know myself' is not helpful to me; that it's better for me to live my life and deal with the aspects of myself that surface as I am doing that. A quest to know myself seems too artificial; if I look at myself out of the contexts in which I live I will get a distorted view anyway. And such a quest is largely doomed because I'd be pursuing a moving target; one day I'd decide I was confident, the next, I'd be the opposite. Etc.

I am like a primitive person. They spend up to 90% of the day in ritual. For me being here online is like that. A ritual I can participate in because I am time rich. I suspect I see a lot of things more clearly, simply because I've clambered out of the valleys of work and achievement, to the slopes with a wider, more embrasing view. I have no vested interests left...(not true as there are emotional ones) ...in the outside world. It does what it does.

I think there are many people with jobs who have the ability not to let their self-worth be tied to their job. I think it's possible to gain a better perspective on life and learn about oneself while having a job. I don't think one has to be in your situation to be able to do those things.

Let me know if you now get that I wasn't picking on you (contradictions etc) [/quote]

Ok, I get that you weren't picking on me, but I don't agree that what you quoted as an example of a contradiction actually is a contradiction.

Helen

[Desert Dweller]

Ok you're right...you cannot see any contradiction. Regardless of direct or indirect we were talking about the result which frankly doesn't care a jot.
I don't agree that what you quoted as an example of a contradiction actually is a contradiction. I'm happy to let others decide.

I couldn't live the way you live
You could if you had to.

I really don't understand why you bothered to repeat my post. A simple reference to it would have sufficed.

A quest to know myself seems too artificial; You miossed the entire point. One doesn't CHOOSE!

if I look at myself out of the contexts in which I live I will get a distorted view anyway So deny your own humanity and define yourself by the way you live, and good luck.

I think This phrase occurs often in your post.
Well I think: pigs can fly; goldfish are made of gold; and nuclear waste is not harmful.

It would help the dialoge if you gave some reasons now and again.

I don't think one has to be in your situation to be able to do those things. Again yo missed the point...my situation as you put it is not by choice! Once here however I've gone through enough nonsense to start to appreciate the benefits of my way of being. I have nothing to defend, I cannot be manipulated, I am beyond ambition/competition/rat racing....I have an opportunity to discover what the real 'I" wants to express. Being in the rat race prevents all these things from being able to emerge.

Since you ended repeating the same defence I don't agree that what you quoted as an example of a contradiction actually is a contradiction. all I can say is why are you so defensive of your position? What mkes you attatched to being right? What might happen if you said; oh yes, I was a bit contradictory...and learned a bit more about yourself.

[HelenM]

Ok you're right...you cannot see any contradiction. Regardless of direct or indirect we were talking about the result which frankly doesn't care a jot.

You accused me of being defensive later in your post but aren't you being a little defensive here?

I don't agree that what you quoted as an example of a contradiction actually is a contradiction. I'm happy to let others decide.

Fine.

I couldn't live the way you live
You could if you had to.

I can't see a situation where I'd have to isolate myself as much as you seem to; that's what I meant.

I really don't understand why you bothered to repeat my post. A simple reference to it would have sufficed.

I didn't know that at the time. I thought you might think me rude if I didn't post it, like I was ignoring what you wrote. Maybe you thought that anyway.

A quest to know myself seems too artificial; You miossed the entire point. One doesn't CHOOSE!

I think one does choose that. One can take time for it, or not, even if one doesn't have a paid job.

if I look at myself out of the contexts in which I live I will get a distorted view anyway So deny your own humanity and define yourself by the way you live, and good luck.

Where did I deny my own humanity? Where did I define myself by the way I live? Please explain.

I think This phrase occurs often in your post.
Well I think: pigs can fly; goldfish are made of gold; and nuclear waste is not harmful.

What's wrong with "I think"? I prefer it to asserting things which may only be my opinion. If you think pigs can fly, goldfish are made of gold and nuclear waste is not harmful then I suggest you do some more research into those matters.

It would help the dialoge if you gave some reasons now and again.

I know I'm happier when I'm involved in things and with people. Is that a reason? What did I not give reasons for that you're looking for reasons for? I'm not sure what you're referring to.

I don't think one has to be in your situation to be able to do those things. Again yo missed the point...my situation as you put it is not by choice!

Your isolating yourself is a choice.

Once here however I've gone through enough nonsense to start to appreciate the benefits of my way of being. I have nothing to defend,

Then why are you so defensive?

I cannot be manipulated, I am beyond ambition/competition/rat racing....I have an opportunity to discover what the real 'I" wants to express. Being in the rat race prevents all these things from being able to emerge.

Not necessarily.

Since you ended repeating the same defence I don't agree that what you quoted as an example of a contradiction actually is a contradiction. all I can say is why are you so defensive of your position? What mkes you attatched to being right? What might happen if you said; oh yes, I was a bit contradictory...and learned a bit more about yourself.

What is the point of me saying, yes, I was a bit contradictory, if I don't see that I was? If you showed me a contradiction then I'd admit it. But you didn't. Despite your claim, I'm not so attached to being right that I refuse to admit when I'm wrong.

Helen

[Desert Dweller]

I can't see a situation where I'd have to isolate myself as much as you seem to; that's what I meant.
Yes Helen I understand that. This discussion has a lot to do with perception.
IN many ways I suspect we are in mutually exclusion; like an optical illusion, when you can see one thing you can't see the other.
While I can imagine living conventionally (cosI'v ebeen there) I can see that you have no basis upon which to imagine what my life is like. Nothing wrong with that,it's the way perception is.

You see it as isolation. I see it as living in the bush because that's where I'm most happy; with the birds, the reptiles and warm blooded creatures.

I think one does choose that. One can take time for it, or not, even if one doesn't have a paid job. Well philosophically I suppose there is an element of choice. To me it's like the choice between drowning and swimming to shore.
In hte event that, say VM's situation goes on into the long term then unless he is wacked out on substances, he won't really have a choice because that's what the mind does.

Where did I deny my own humanity? That was my error- reread and saw how I misinterpreted if I look at myself out of the contexts in which I live I will get a distorted view anyway Excuse me.

I made this post in the light of VM's Opening Post. It is a situation poorly understood and much discriminated against.
I chose to share my situation with VM to demonstrate that 1) Life does go on albeit a rather different one and 2) it can be a very rich time to get to know oneself and find out if one has a sense of happiness with just 'being who they are'. I also suspect that in today's world only a minority of people totally accept themselves. So if VM were to gain ground here he would make a great contribution to his own life and to those he comes into contact with.

Also as a general question it is useful to find out how much we identify with who we findamentally are or with what we do and where we live. It's a subtle excercise, hard inner work with the reward of self-knowledge.

Thanks for your feedback.

[HelenM]

Sorry, I just realized you replied to me - I didn't see it earlier.

I also suspect that in today's world only a minority of people totally accept themselves. So if VM were to gain ground here he would make a great contribution to his own life and to those he comes into contact with.

I think I agree with you conceptually although to me self-acceptance is a confusing term because people with a balanced view of themselves probably have things about themself that they are working to change - i.e. that they don't accept. I think it's the balanced view which is important to aim at more than total acceptance, because total acceptance seems to imply that having goals we haven't attained yet is inappropriate. Yet I think it's very appropriate.

Anyway, thanks for your comments.

Helen

[viscousmemories]

This has been a lively and interesting thread. :yup:

I'll say again just for the record that I really wasn't looking for advice or affirmation. I've done almost nothing but self-exploration for a large part of my life and I know myself quite well. I go through emotional ups and downs but for the most part I'm content with who I am today and I don't fear the future. If there's one thing I know how to do, it's survive.

This really has been an enlightening thread though, on many levels. Thanks folks.