Save green and be green

[LadyShea]

Not sure if we've had this discussion, though we may have. Just wanting to know some things you are currently doing to save money and are environmentally friendly. I have a friend who spends way more money "being green" than is necessary if you renew, reuse, and recycle...but I don't want to drive all over the state to buy specific organic products or go to recycling centers because that wastes gas and defeats the purpose.

So, here are a few of my ideas.

Rather than paper towels we use cut up old bath towels, cheap dish towels you can buy by the dozen at dollar stores, and stained towels from the golf course hubby works at which would be thrown away. We used to go through a roll of paper towels every few days, now one roll lasts two weeks because we only use them for things I don't want in my washer like greasy food messes and dog vomit.

I use cloth diapers and baby washcloths with plain water rather than disposable baby wipes infused with a bunch of unnecessary chemicals. Water cleans his butt pretty nicely.

I use a rubber feminine cup rather than pads or tampons. It should last 10 years or so and possibly take me through to menopause.

I wash almost everything in cold water, and occasionally warm. I never use hot and haven't found it necessary at all.

Reset the thermostat to 77 rather than 75. The AC runs much, much less. Noticeably less.

I buy eco-friendly cleaning and personal care products from Melaleuca that are delivered to the house. Overall they seem to cost less than buying similar products in the store and they also last longer. It's technically a network marketing business, but Mom and I only use it for ourselves as we like the products.


Ideas I am looking for: How to reduce food packaging! Goddamn we throw away a lot of food boxes, bags, bottles, and cans! Also uses for plastic shopping bags...I use them a lot but still have way more. I don't think our supermarket has a recycling program for them, but I will check.

[TomJoe]

I don't have trash pickup where I live. I need to drive everything to the local dump (which is on my way to work). They have the recycling bins there, so it's all done in one stop.

If you have trash pickup, do they have a recycling option?

As for cutting down on gas ... I plan my routes carefully nowadays. If I need to go shopping, I'll find out when I'm in that area anyways and plan for shopping then. No going to work, going home, going back out shopping, going home, dropping off groceries, going back out to Home Deport, going home ...

[LadyShea]

We don't have curbside recycling unfortunately, and the nearest recycling center is in Pensacola, about 40 minutes away.

[godfry n. glad]

It ain't easy bein' green.

:kermit:

[TomJoe]

We don't have curbside recycling unfortunately, and the nearest recycling center is in Pensacola, about 40 minutes away.Wow. Perhaps an email to your local town council is in order ... that they consider joining the 21st century.

[Dingfod]

It almost isn't even worthwhile being green when you find out they throw almost all of the recycled stuff you take the trouble to separate in the bins at the recycling center into the same landfill as the regular trash because there's virtually no market for any of it except aluminum and newspaper. My employer has paper-recycling bins in every work area, but I've seen those bins being dumped into the regular trash dumpsters more than once because the recycled paper dumpster is completely full and nobody has come to pick it up for a week.

If I kept my thermostat at 77:degrees:F I would produce enough sweat that, once desalinated, could irrigate the olive crop of a several Middle Eastern nations. Doubleplus good.

[LadyShea]

We don't have curbside recycling unfortunately, and the nearest recycling center is in Pensacola, about 40 minutes away.Wow. Perhaps an email to your local town council is in order ... that they consider joining the 21st century.


LOL, I live in a semi-rural area, my neighborhood is unincorporated, and the county has something like 17 separate municipalities. I have no idea how to lobby my government in this type of environment. My particular actual city doesn't even have mail delivery. If I want my mail delivered to the house, I have to use a different city and ZIP code than I actually live in.

If I want an address of my (more desirable from a real estate standpoint) town, I have to use a PO box

[viscousmemories]

I stopped at Whole Foods the other day to pick up some bread*, and faced the usual "paper or plastic?" dilemma. When I said it didn't matter I felt a bit of a chill from the cashier, so I muttered "Kill a tree or pollute a landfill? I never know which way to go." To which she replied, "You can bring your own bags!"

After a bit of back and forth (consisting primarily of me trying to weasle my way out of it) she gave me a free bag as incentive. So that's what I'm doing now. In fact I bought four more bags at Central Market last night.


*Sorry Rev! I do most of my shopping at Central Market these days, but Whole Foods has a better selection of breads from Alvarado St. Bakery.

[The Lone Ranger]

I stopped at Whole Foods the other day to pick up some bread*, and faced the usual "paper or plastic?" dilemma. When I said it didn't matter I felt a bit of a chill from the cashier, so I muttered "Kill a tree or pollute a landfill? I never know which way to go." To which she replied, "You can bring your own bags!"

After a bit of back and forth (consisting primarily of me trying to weasle my way out of it) she gave me a free bag as incentive. So that's what I'm doing now. In fact I bought four more bags at Central Market last night.

I bought some string bags years ago, and I use those (at least, when I remember to bring them with me). They're much stronger than plastic bags anyway, and hold much more than most bags. A win/win situation as far as I'm concerned, though some people give me funny looks when I whip one out. There's a grocery store in Moscow, Idaho that actually gives you a small discount if you bring your own bags -- I wish more places did that.


By an odd coincidence, I just got back from a meeting about recycling. Several other professors/staff and myself have been lobbying to get a recycling program off the ground here, and we just had our first meeting about how to implement it.

Cheers,

Michael

[TomJoe]

Thanks for mentioning the "bringing your own cloth bags" vm. It's certainly one way to cut down on the paper or plastic problem. I also read that some stores are going to start charging $0.05 per plastic bag, in order to get people to bring their own cloth bags shopping. IIRC, IKEA does something along those lines already.

[lisarea]

The funny looks are the only thing that keeps me from using cloth bags. I really don't like people staring at me. I need to get over that, I know. *

Anyways, in general, I guess we don't buy very much stuff in the first place, and we usually don't get much stuff with excess packaging. We also tend to reuse, recycle, or compost what we can before stuff makes it into the trash. We seem to put out about a third to a fourth as much garbage as most houses around here do, so we suck a little less than our neighbors in that respect.

We're also switching to compact fluorescents right now, and I've only used the dryer once since I got mad about that one article that mean man livius drusus posted in the Laundry thread. (It was an emergency. I'd offered to wash LM's work clothes, and it rained all day.)

My next big issue is beer. I feel guilty about the bottles. Giving it up is out of the question, as is beer that comes in cans. If I can't find a place that sells those 'party pig' things or something, I'm going to have to start making my own beer.

* Also, now that I think of it, I don't really do the grocery shopping much these days, so I blame the guy who does all the work.

[The Lone Ranger]

I'd like to second the vote for compact fluorescent lights; I love compact fluorescents! Every time a light bulb burns out, I replace it with a compact fluorescent. True, they're expensive, but I figure with what electricity prices are around here, they don't take all that long to pay for themselves.

I replaced all the bulbs in my kitchen with compact fluorescents, and not only do they consume much less electricity than the old bulbs did, they actually produce considerably more light.

Cheers,

Michael

[viscousmemories]

Thanks for mentioning the "bringing your own cloth bags" vm.
You're welcome!

They give a little discount for using your own bags at Whole Foods, not sure about Central Market.

[lisarea]

I'd like to second the vote for compact fluorescent lights; I love compact fluorescents! Every time a light bulb burns out, I replace it with a compact fluorescent. True, they're expensive, but I figure with what electricity prices are around here, they don't take all that long to pay for themselves.

At both of the Costcos near here, they have 8 packs of 60W equivalent CFLs for less than $11. They were different brands, too, so I'm suspecting it's some kind of corporate policy.

I love Costco.

[LadyShea]

What about the quality of light with the new compact fluorescents? Is it that cold, scary, look-like-a-corpse in it type bright white found in public restrooms and offices or have they managed to soften/warm it a bit?

I wish I could line dry, I really do, but it's just too humid here. As it is I have to run some things through the dryer twice or they are still damp, and if you have any dampness when you put something in the closet, it mildews.
And, I recently found out that contrary to popular belief the rainiest cities in the country are here, Mobile and Pensacola (I live between them) and not Seattle and other PNW as I thought.

Oh, that leads me to another question, mildew prevention. All we have been able to find is Damp Rid, which is expensive, messy and needs replacing frequently...is there a natural moisture absorber I can use in the closets instead?

[TomJoe]

I wish I could line dry, I really do, but it's just too humid here. As it is I have to run some things through the dryer twice or they are still damp, and if you have any dampness when you put something in the closet, it mildews.
Have you done a thorough inspection of your lint trap, all the way through the dryer vent hose?

As lint collects in the vent hose, it'll cut into the ability of your dryer to effectively dry your clothes. Eventually it could catch fire.

[LadyShea]

Have you done a thorough inspection of your lint trap, all the way through the dryer vent hose?

As lint collects in the vent hose, it'll cut into the ability of your dryer to effectively dry your clothes. Eventually it could catch fire.

Yes, I check it once a month and vacuum it out. But it's been this way since we installed it...brand new house, brand new dryer just 1 year ago...the 100% humidity seems to fuck things up. Wasn't too bad in the winter.

ETA: it's mostly the diapers (which are supposed to hold mositure) and bedding that has to go through twice.

[The Lone Ranger]

The newer compact fluorescents produce a very nice spectrum that's very similar to that of incandescent bulbs. Actually, the compact fluorescents I have in my kitchen produce light that looks more like sunlight than do the remaining incandescent bulbs in other rooms.

A much greater percentage of the light produced by standard incandescent bulbs is in the red part of the spectrum than is true of sunlight. The older, flickering fluorescent bulbs produce light that is excessively green. Either way, neither mimics sunlight very well.

The compact fluorescents I'm using don't flicker at all, light up "instantly" when you turn them on, just like incandescent bulbs (though if you watch carefully, you'll notice it takes a few seconds for them to reach full brightness), and produce light that's almost indistinguishable from that of incandescent lights -- except that, in my opinion, it looks more like natural sunlight.

Cheers,

Michael

[Dingfod]

I've even bought compact fluorescent replacements for the eight 250 watt outdoor spotlight bulbs we have around the outside of our house. I'm not extremely impressed with compact fluorescents as far as cost savings go, they've scarcely made a difference in my electric bills (not nearly as much as the extra foot of insulation in the attic and the storm windows did) and they burn out nearly as frequently as incandescents but cost a lot more to buy. The real way to go for energy savings and longevity is LED replacement bulbs (http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/led-lighting/index.aspx), however, they're currently quite expensive. They still should pay for themselves several times over.

[wildernesse]

Bringing your own bag does cut down a lot on the plastic bags--I have one large canvas shoulder tote that can hold almost an entire grocery trip for us, and it works out really well. Plus, half the time, if I am just buying one or two things I refuse a bag. It works best if you just have a couple of good bags and always have one in the car.

For cans--my grandmother used to crush aluminum cans and save them in their own metal garbage can (the metal garbage can is important to my memory, but I reckon other kinds could work), then when she had a full can she would take it to the recycling place as part of another trip to town. Either Mobile or Pensacola should have a place to take cans, and you'd only have to do it every other month or so.

For other food wrappers--my grandmother also used to save the bags that bread came in and use those (cut open so they are flat) to roll out biscuits or pie dough, any messy counter work, really. (Grandmother was from the Depression, can't you tell.)

For paperboard boxes--maybe you could use them in your garden under mulch to help your plants? Or if they are cereal box size, maybe you could cut them apart for Cade to draw on the blank insides?

[lisarea]

I hate tube fluorescents, and I didn't like the older CFLs, so I was pretty nervous about them, too. I'd decided to switch anyway, and if I still didn't like them, it would just be my tough luck and I'd have to deal.

But I was pleasantly surprised. They don't flicker, I don't get headaches, the light isn't all sickly and scary, and nobody looks any uglier than usual. In fact, I'm actually preferring them now. It's like the light is crisper or something. (I confess to bias, though. I want to like them better.)

Popular Mechanics reviewed a bunch of CFLs (http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/home_improvement/4215199.html) a couple of months ago, using both subjective and objective measures, if you want to look.

[The Lone Ranger]

I've even bought compact fluorescent replacements for the eight 250 watt outdoor spotlight bulbs we have around the outside of our house. I'm not extremely impressed with compact fluorescents as far as cost savings go, they've scarcely made a difference in my electric bills (not nearly as much as the extra foot of insulation in the attic and the storm windows did) and they burn out nearly as frequently as incandescents but cost a lot more to buy. The real way to go for energy savings and longevity is LED replacement bulbs (http://www.ccrane.com/lights/led-light-bulbs/led-lighting/index.aspx), however, they're currently quite expensive. They still should pay for themselves several times over.

The newer LEDs are really nice. They're too expensive for me to use them in the home as of yet, but I have an LED flashlight that I love. That sucker is bright, and it produces a much whiter light than even a krypton bulb.

I've noticed that some of the local townships are slowly replacing the old incandescent traffic lights with LED traffic lights, which strikes me as a splendid idea.

Cheers,

Michael

[ChuckF]

I walk to the locally owned market for probably 50% of my food purchases, mostly perishables, and take my own bag. I don't save any money, but the produce is better. And all the energy savings disappear in the winter through the shitty insulation in this house. However, energy consumption is very low in the summer because the house is very well-shaded and air conditioning is unnecessary.

Also I know the perfect bag for lisarea:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7831/137la3.jpg (http://store.theonion.com/canvas-tote-p-51.html)

[lisarea]

Also I know the perfect bag for lisarea:

Now that's just too direct an answer to be anything but a sign.

Don't hurt me, Shiva!

[Watser?]

I use those compact fluorescent lights everywhere. I have one or two bulbs left I think, where they don't fit.
Paper is collected separately here and so is any compostable waste (fruit and vegetable matter and garden stuff like leaves or branches). The rest goes in bags that you have to pay taxes on, they have a special color, usually green. So if you stuff other things in there you pay extra.
I always use a bag too, they only have plastic bags here and you have to pay for them. And a backpack is a lot more convenient anyway. Because I don't drive a car, I take everything on my (pedal) bike or on foot or ride the train or bus.

[LadyShea]

Wildy, excellent ideas, could you explain using cardboard with mulch? I am pretty clueless about such things, but would love to reuse all the damn cardboard!!

[LadyShea]

Also I know the perfect bag for lisarea:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7831/137la3.jpg (http://store.theonion.com/canvas-tote-p-51.html)

I think you should get some totes and paint them all bright and put like buttons and sequins and badges all over them. If people are gonna stare, let them have something interesting to look at. What the hell is stare worthy of a plain canvas tote?

Oh and something cool I saw was glass pebbles to use for landscaping and mulch. They tumble them so there are no sharp edges (like beach glass). I hate to buy the stuff and have it shipped, though. Too bad I can't afford a commercial tumbler, or I would make and sell the stuff myself.

[livius drusus]

Good point, Shea.

Here's (http://www.reusablebags.com/store/basura-bags-large-tote-grocery-p-648.html#) something for you to bedazzle, lisarea. It's made out of recycled juice boxes so automatic green points and weirdo Asian Mr. Sparkle pop culture points. On top of that, it's made my a coop of Philippine women, so development economics and sisters-are-doing-it-for-themselves points. Finally, unlike canvas, you never have to worry about having to wash it so convenience and more green points.

It's like a giant avalanche of points all for you, plus you'll know why people are staring for a change.

http://www.reusablebags.com/store/images/products_large/P-23_L.jpg

NOW YOU CAN NEVER CALL ME MEAN AGAIN

[lisarea]

WTF is with that bag site? They have, like, bags for carrying other bags, and A SPECIAL TOOL FOR TAKING BAGS OUT OF TREES. (http://www.reusablebags.com/store/activist-tools-snagger-c-5_14.html) It costs $230, and you can get a set of extension poles for another $55.

So, you know also, I guess if you iron together a few layers of grocery store bags with newspaper or something, you can make something about the consistency of Tyvek. So theoretically, anyway, you should be able to make disposable bags into reusable bags!

Oh, man. I go to find instructions for doing that plastic thing, and I find this: Someone beat me to it. (http://modcottage.com/?p=109)

[RevDahlia]

*Sorry Rev! I do most of my shopping at Central Market these days, but Whole Foods has a better selection of breads from Alvarado St. Bakery.
Shit, man, me and C-Mart are like this. Metric tons of toilet paper and frozen salmon fillets from Costco, veg and cheese from C-Mart, and I'm set.

I am frantically scribbling down the nifty bag ideas. Around here people stare at you if you don't bring all your own bags.

[Plant Woman]

When buying produce put more than one kind in the produce bag. It's a pain for the cashier but it cuts out using a lot of bags. We use the plastic bags for garbage bags. We have a wire garbage bag holder that we fastened to the cupboard door under the sink and we line it with grocery bags from Central Market. We use canvas bags to put the groceries in.

Sometimes I just take the baskets used for shopper who are only buying a few items and put my produce in there and then have them put it in a canvas bag. I have to always ask for minimal bagging otherwise they bag everything too much.

We recycle everything we can and only have to go to the dump once a month with our recycles and two cans of trash. We save money because the garbage pick up costs almost triple what it costs us to go to the dump ourselves. We recycle our newspaper and cardboard into the garden using it to lay down over weeds and cover it with bark mulch for an instant weed free path. We have a chipper shedder that we put all our wood prunings through and add it to the compost pile along with our weed, grass and kitchen refuse. All waste in the garden is recycled back into the garden.

We set our thermostat to 65 in the winter.

[LadyShea]

Okay Plant Woman and Wildy, explain the cardboard under the mulch thing to me, step by step as if I was stupid. What does it do, how does it do it, and how do I do it for optimal doage?

On to the bags. I don't know if anyone here knows it, but I am a total bag lady. Some people like shoes, some jewelry, I like bags. Not just purses, but tote bags, duffell bags, book bags, gift bags, toy bags, storage bags, etc.

Now I have to go melt some plastic and make bags. That's totally my Christmas gifts this year. I had found one sight that had a pattern where you somehow made plastic bags into a thread and crocheted them together, but I don't know how to do that. I can melt stuff though!

[RevDahlia]

I couldn't resist. I made the modcottage bag bag. Mine has a mastodon on it, and yes, I did Bedazzle it.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/clandyone/IMG_1476.jpg

Closeup of mastodon and Bedazzlement:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/clandyone/IMG_1475.jpg

This melted-bag material, when it's all done and fused, is as tough as anything. I could barely get my needle through it to sew on the sequins. After the Revolution comes, I plan to have a small industry making galoshes out of it.

I did not put handles on the bag, because I got bored and also I'm using it as a wastebasket, but I'm happy with how it turned out. The whole process, including snack breaks and sequins, took about three hours.

[lisarea]

That is insane cool. Much nicer than the one on that site.

I've started making the yarn for those crocheted ones (http://www.marloscrochetcorner.com/Plastic%20Bag%20tote.html) LadyShea was talking about.

[Ymir's blood]

I'd buy the sickly light bulbs if I knew which ones they were.

I line dry my clothes inside. I'd do the sheets and towels as well but there isn't enough room.

I've noticed that some of the local townships are slowly replacing the old incandescent traffic lights with LED traffic lights, which strikes me as a splendid idea.

NC is switching to those as well. Supposed to save electricity, last longer and are a lot more visible.

[The Lone Ranger]

Cardboard mulching is really simple, and it kills weeds PDQ. Here's (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/02/25/greeng.DTL) some information on the subject.

Cheers,

Michael

[wildernesse]

Yeah, the link TLR has is probably pretty good (from skimming!). I think just lay down the cardboard where you don't want weeds to grow, then put a good layer of mulch over it. Weeds can't grow through it, and you improve your soil when all that stuff decays. Plant Woman has actually done this, so she may know all the trickses--I just know OF it. Totally different, but likely a Grandma idea as well.

[godfry n. glad]

It almost isn't even worthwhile being green when you find out they throw almost all of the recycled stuff you take the trouble to separate in the bins at the recycling center into the same landfill as the regular trash because there's virtually no market for any of it except aluminum and newspaper. My employer has paper-recycling bins in every work area, but I've seen those bins being dumped into the regular trash dumpsters more than once because the recycled paper dumpster is completely full and nobody has come to pick it up for a week.

If I kept my thermostat at 77:degrees:F I would produce enough sweat that, once desalinated, could irrigate the olive crop of a several Middle Eastern nations. Doubleplus good.

I hear you, Ding. My A/C is probably my worst sin against green. Any external temps above 75:degrees:F and I turn on the A/C. Of course, I'm hoping that my turning the household heating off when external temps reach 60:degrees:F make at least partial amends. Also, external temps above 75 are a fairly limited occurance around here.

As for the dumping of recycleables in the garbage, we had a recent event here, where a recycler was seen tossing separated recycling into the trash, and it went very public and the hauler was informed that their franchise to haul was endangered. The issue in these parts probably has more to do with reducing the amount of materials going into the landfill than it does with assuring that recycled materials are recycled. In fact, we have curbside pick-up of newspaper, kraft paper (cardboard and grocery type bags) and scrap paper....which are allowed to be co-mingled. The regulator of garbage and recycling locally wants to allow all recycled items to be co-mingled, and have it mechanically separated at a transfer station. This means that the paper portion will not be recycled, but reused, as boiler fuel.

The problem with recycled items is that the market prices fluctuate wildly. In our area, the bottom dropped out of the news and scrap paper market when the Asian buyers dropped out. The return on color-separated bottles disappeared when Owens-Illinois closed their regional bottle glass factory and, to be recycled, glass had to go to California. The hauling costs more than ate up any revenue from the glass itself. Steel cans had always had a similar problem locally, in that they had to be hauled to Tacoma in Washington for processing. The market for clean aluminium has always been strong because the energy requirements to transform bauxite ore to aluminium has always been huge and the energy to reform aluminium itself is, relatively, exceedingly low. Old motor oil is filtered and then sold to ship handlers locally for 'bunker oil', whatever that is. It's more 'reuse' than 'recycle', but then...Removal of all these items means that the new landfill (150 miles to the east in a desert canyon) lasts longer and has fewer toxic pollutants. That's where stuff being "recycled" has value.

The problem is twofold (at least): Inadequate processing for separated recycled items and inadeqate demand for recycled products. Few investors are willing to invest large sums in such volitile markets to build additional processing facilities.

The biggest problem in the past twenty years has been the massive increase in plastics used across the markets. Plastic as a coating on paper (to make it shiny) makes it unrecycleable. Plastics have replaced glass bottles in enormous numbers of products. When I was collecting recycleables, we couldn't accept them because there were so many types and very few buyers of any of the types. As already noted, film plastics have replaced paper as the primary choice for retailer's bags.

Locally, we've had great success with separated yard debris. Garden clippings, prunings and trimmings were once the second largest source of debris entering the waste stream (the first being construction debris). The regional government required local haulers to provide curbside pickup of separated bagged or binned organic yard debris, every other week, at no additional cost. Each additional can (35 gallon) is charged at $1. This material goes to one of two composting facilities, where it is mulched and composted and then resold as compost to any and all.

The same regional government also offered householders the opportunity to purchase spiffy recycled plastic compost bins (I have four of them) at annual sales for exceedingly inexpensive rates to encourage home composting. They also offer classes on all sorts of reduce/reuse/recycle information to the general public, upon demand....includes vermiculture, too.

Packaging continues to be a major source of irritation to me. Costco, although a really neat retail wholesaler, is one of the worst offenders in the category of products overpackaged in rigid plastic...which around here is something the householder has to clean, remove paper, and separate by plastic industry numbers, and then carry to one of only three or four drop-off centers in the entire metro area (and we have pay to recycle of styrofoam!!). Plastic screw-top bottles are picked up at curbside here in Puddle City.

So...we come back to 'reduce - reuse - recycle'. The best first step is to reduce the number of items that require disposal. Select for items that can be recycled, or, at a minimum, reused (burning paper is technically reusing it, but doesn't reduce the demand on forests for additional fiber). Along with this, supporting products that are verifiably 'green' is a step in the right direction, but there all too many frauds are out there claiming that they're something they really not. The idea of reuseable grocery bags is superb. The plastic film bags have generated their own 'in-house' recycling market in my local area, and most retailers offer to accept them back for recycling (they will not be picked up at curbside). I, like PW, use them for wet, non-compostable trash.

If we remove all these items from our two-person household waste stream, we could get by with an every-other-week pickup of a 25 gallon garbage can (35 gallon is a standard can). Every week, I put out more separated recycleables at the curb than I do garbage, most of it paper.

So...I agree that local government is probably the best place to start, but for us, it required the creation of state-wide legislation requiring communities of more than 20,000 residents to provide curbside pick-up of recycleables. Rural areas are still left out of curbside, but most have either had haulers who responded to demand or drop-off centers develop in the wake of the legislation. I would suggest that Lady Shea find out which level of government has the most immediate oversight of the landfill where they take their trash.

"Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without," is the phrase I grew up with (Depression-era parents again...poor ones). That seems to have been replaced by expanded expectations, planned obsolescence, packaging stimulated by health and theft paranoias, and an attitude that it really doesn't matter....outta sight, outta mind.

[godfry n. glad]

Yeah, the link TLR has is probably pretty good (from skimming!). I think just lay down the cardboard where you don't want weeds to grow, then put a good layer of mulch over it. Weeds can't grow through it, and you improve your soil when all that stuff decays. Plant Woman has actually done this, so she may know all the trickses--I just know OF it. Totally different, but likely a Grandma idea as well.

Y'know...I'm wondering; when they say "cardboard", do they mean corrugated kraft paper type cardboard only, or do they include what I was taught to call "paperboard", the stuff from which they make cereal boxes and the like?

I ask because I would prefer using the latter because there is very little in the way of recycling markets for it (the one I know is composition shingling, where it is used for fiber), whereas kraft paper has always had a fairly decent market around here...although that may have changed in the 20 years since I was part of the recycling vanguard.

[godfry n. glad]

I switched to the compact fluorescents shortly after they came out. I have since switched at least half of them back to typical incandescent bulbs. This is because with all the bulbs changed, we found we could not read in the resulting light. Living in a bungalow is living in the dark, unless you have decent illumination, and we found compacts to be indecent in terms of illumination and price.

Has that changed? I remain skeptical, but I'm willing to retry it, if the poor illumination has been improved.

[Plant Woman]

Use cardboard boxes, newspapers, and I suppose any cartons that carries food would be safe. Just make sure the ink used in newspaper is not toxic. Don't use the slick ad pages. For newspaper overlap by 6 inches and pile on about 8 papers thick. Cardboard unless it's real flimsy can be one thickness thick, but be sure to overlap so the weeds don't poke through. Put it down right over the weeds; however if the weeds are high you will need to cut them down. Pile your mulch on top. I use bark mulch for paths, but you can use cocoa hulls, or whatever is cheapest and nicest in your area.

[LadyShea]

We have bark mulch and pine straw in most of our landscaping and a little bit of gravel to make drainage "streams" look more attractive. I will definitely start putting cardboard down, immediately. Pizza boxes should work nicely as well as cereal boxes I assume. I have a lot of both!

Oh I also forgot to mention I am as paperless as can be as far as my home office, I don't even have a printer hooked up. I only use electronic faxing (faxes are sent to my email) and store stuff on the web, my harddrive, or CD. I have asked various places I shop on only to notify me via email of sales etc. rather than send catalogs. A few complied. Anyway, I don't use much paper.

[viscousmemories]

Well even Randall's is on the tote-bandwagon now. Granted the bag I just bought came wrapped in plastic and I had to stop the cashier from stuffing it in another plastic bag (along with the jar of salsa I was buying), but it's a start.

[The Lone Ranger]

I switched to the compact fluorescents shortly after they came out. I have since switched at least half of them back to typical incandescent bulbs. This is because with all the bulbs changed, we found we could not read in the resulting light. Living in a bungalow is living in the dark, unless you have decent illumination, and we found compacts to be indecent in terms of illumination and price.

Has that changed? I remain skeptical, but I'm willing to retry it, if the poor illumination has been improved.

The newer compact fluorescents are pretty bright. It's not unusual to find compact fluorescents that actually produce more light than the incandescents they're meant to replace. Because they use so much less electricity, you can also go up to high equivalent wattages. For instance, I was dissatisfied with how dark it was in my kitchen; the chandelier in the kitchen has warning stickers that tell you not to use bulbs of more than 60 Watts. So, I replaced the 60 W incandescents with compact fluorescents that are the equivalent of 100 Watt incandescents, and now my kitchen is just as bright as can be. And yet, these bulbs use less than half the energy the old incandescents did.

Cheers,

Michael

[lisarea]

Oh, HAI.

This is the bag I made out of bags:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/lisarea/bagbag.png

There are red potatoes in it, and the handle is uncentered because I counted all wrong, and was too lazy to unravel and redo it, so I decided to pretend I did it on purpose.

So, I did that on purpose.

[curses]

That is quite possibly the coolest thing I've seen today, lisarea!

[LadyShea]

lisa, that turned out cool as shit. Is it difficult?

[lisarea]

Thanks, guys!

No, it wasn't difficult. It took a LOT of bags, though--pretty close to a bag per row. I think I might do it on a larger hook next time and see if I can stretch the bags out a little longer.

It really is crazy strong, though.

[Julie]

I wish I had my camera....I've been making and using those crochet bags for years now....

I much perfer my market bags (http://www.bernat.com/pattern.php?PID=2330) which I either make out of cotton yarn or hemp yarn...I perfer the hemp yarn, its almost indestructible, the first bag i made is now 4 years old and still looks new.

As for what we do to be green...

We recycle everything, we have an amazing curbside program. Any food waste goes into the compost heap.

All the lights in the house are compact floresents...have been for many many years.

Both my kids were cloth diapered, I even made most of their diapers myself.

I use cloth pads not disposibles.

All the meat we eat is locally raised (its also organic but thats a side benifit)
We buy local produce, plus we grow a lot of our own when we can.

There is lots more we could be doing but we are better than the average family...

[LadyShea]

Wow, Julie, you're totally granola! I never learned to sew, or I would be way more green.

I did make a bunch of old pillowcases into drawstring bags for laundry and storage the other day. No sewing necessary and damned if they aren't handy and hold a lot of stuff.

Oh and I have 3 family-in-law members moving into our house today. The in-laws drink a lot of bottled water which is for the most part banned in my house (we keep some in case of hurricane). What is with people that drink bottle after bottle of water then throw the bottles away? I have lots of bottles saved from the trash when we have had visitors, I fill them up from the fridge to take on the boat or to the beach etc.

Apparently several cities have banned bottled water. Makes sense to me.

[viscousmemories]

Great, now I have to consider kicking my bottled water habit. Bitch. :brooding:

[LadyShea]

Great, now I have to consider kicking my bottled water habit. Bitch. :brooding:

Well, not necessarily. What are your most valid and justifiable reasons for drinking bottled water? Could you get the same benefits with a filter that hooks to your tap?

Do consider though that 3 bottles of water a day equals over 1000 bottlesd in the landfill a year JUST BY YOU. How many people have similar bottled water habits?

[The Lone Ranger]

Yeah, bottled water is largely a scam. In many cases, it's literally just tapwater in a plastic bottle.

In the long run, it's surely cheaper and more practical to filter your water. I have a filter on my kitchen tap, and I use the filtered water to fill a Nalgene bottle when I want to carry water with me.

A handy tip for traveling: most convenience stores will let you have icewater for little or nothing. So, on trips I'll stop at a convenience store when necessary to fill my Nalgene with icewater. In my experience, most places won't charge you at all (be sure to let them know beforehand that you're only getting water), or if they do, it's only a nomimal fee, like $0.25.

Cheers,

Michael

[viscousmemories]

The biggest reason I drink bottled water is because I'd drink much less water otherwise. I bring a couple liters to work and always have a liter next to my computer at home and when I'm in front of the TV. At least I put the bottles in the recycle bin, but yeah I could easily just get a filter for the kitchen and then fill a few bottles every morning. In fact I believe I'll start doing that.

[lisarea]

I totally understand, vm. I buy five gallon bottles in reusable bottles. I've tried switching to tap, but I just don't like it, so I drink about a tenth as much when I don't have my Special Princess Water.

[Uthgar the Brazen]

I have reusable water bottles (well, I've used them o'er and o'er in any event) that I fill with filtered water from home (Brita pitcher). Honestly, though, the tap water here isn't that awful.

[viscousmemories]

Alas I was unable to convince myself that indulging laziness is more important than reducing my environmental footprint, so I went out and bought a faucet-mounted water filter.

This one, in fact:

http://danielworthington.com/images/16

(incidentally the blogger hosting this image (http://danielworthington.com) amusingly points out that it looks just like a Cylon).

I also picked up some lamb shishkabob. Mmmm....

[LadyShea]

Yay! Lookie, a thread I started actually made a bit of difference. I am so proud of you vm :)

I am lazy, I need an ice dispenser in my fridge door because filling ice trays or opening the door is way too much work...so because of that automatically get filtered water too.

[Uthgar the Brazen]

VM's water filter has a plan.

:eep:

[Julie]

Hey vm is that the water filter you can get flavor inserts for? I think I just saw a commercial for that!

I'm not totally granola, but I do try my best to be as granola as I can (I even parent the "granola" way AKA Attachment parenting)

Living where I live its not hard to live green. Living green and leaving as small a foot print is very important in my area. The city makes the recyceling so incredible easy that everyone does it. We even have green waste pick-up that ends up in a huge community compost, and that gets used on city gardens and community gardens.

I'm very lucky to live where I live :)

[LadyShea]

I'm not totally granola, but I do try my best to be as granola as I can (I even parent the "granola" way AKA Attachment parenting)

I'm like a chewy granola bar...more granola flavored than granola...I try though.

Living where I live its not hard to live green. Living green and leaving as small a foot print is very important in my area. The city makes the recyceling so incredible easy that everyone does it. We even have green waste pick-up that ends up in a huge community compost, and that gets used on city gardens and community gardens.

I'm very lucky to live where I live :)

You are lucky, our area is one of the fastest growing in the country, yet we have the services of a rural cow town.

[Uthgar the Brazen]

I'm plastic shrink-wrapped aerosol cans having an unending ciggie break, myself. :sadcheer:

[viscousmemories]

Hey vm is that the water filter you can get flavor inserts for?Not that I'm aware of! :eek:

[Artemis Entreri]

Well I guess is my first step to "green" living.
I bought a 100% recycled toothbrush tonight.

http://www.recycline.com/catalog/images/P.jpg
It's from Recycline and i got it from the evil empire aka Walmart.:damn:
It also says that they'll send you a self address and postaged paid package
to send it back to be recycled when it's no longer of use.
However, I usually keep my old tooth brushes.
They're great for cleaning motorcycle parts.

[Julie]

It is the pur water filters that make the flavour add ons....just a different model...

pur filter thinigies (http://www.purwater.com/#/flavors)

[lisarea]

lol used toothbrush.

[Qingdai]

They have replaced the traffic lights here with LED lights and I noticed they burn out in weird patterns. Sometimes the lights look like they have pupils. I don't know if they burn out anymore or less than the old lights, at least they partially work when they start to go.

I like farmer's markets for local food without packaging. When it's available it's a nice option.
I also switched to using cloth menstrual pads about ten years ago. So I haven't had to buy any pads or tampons for 10 years. Those things are expensive. I'd make them myself if I had the skills.
I am jealous of those of you who can sew and crochet.

[Julie]

We have the coolest led traffic light near my house, the pattern on it is a skull....I'd kill for a picture of it but there is no way to get one :( My kids call it "the skulled light"


It's very fricken cool.



Qingdai, making cloth pads is stupid easy, even a compleat sewing noob can do it.

I have yards and yards of Burley knit terry ( the soaker on the inside material) if you want I could send you some to try and make your own with. I might even have some velour around too I'd have to look...velour makes for a very nice outter layer.

Or if you are interested the cup LS was talking about is called The keeper (http://www.keeper.com/)

Did I mention that most of my local busses are all either natural gas or ballard power cell operated, so even they are better for the environment? (All my electricity is hydro powered too...infact the company name is "hydro")


Oh and my garden? It's watered with "grey" water...water we collect ourselves...not that we are lacking in water where I live...but no sence in using processed water just t water veggies...I didn't even think of that as being a "green" thing untill today when I saw it on a show!

[Watser?]

Great, now I have to consider kicking my bottled water habit. Bitch. :brooding:

Maybe you should send your used bottles to Indonesia (http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=38509)?

Used plastic bottles and sun rays are all that the impoverished residents of Bintaro, South Jakarta, need for their families to have clean potable water.

The residents, mostly scavengers living near a dump site on Jalan Bintaro Permai in Pesanggrahan, simply make use of disposed plastic bottles and the scorching heat of the sun to purify water, which they pump up from underground.

...

To purify water, all that the residents have to do is clean out transparent plastic water bottles, fill them up with water, tighten their lids and leave them under the sun for six hours. The bottles should be full to the brim because air can deflect the sun’s ultraviolet rays and prevent them from killing bacteria in the water.

[Uthgar the Brazen]

lol used toothbrush.

Ewww, ewww, ewww...

[viscousmemories]

I bought a couple Rubbermaid drinking containers today that I can refill using my new Pur faucet filter, so now I can get all the same benefits I was getting from bottled water with a little more effort but less expense and more environmental friendliness.

[Ymir's blood]

I tried buying an electric lawn mower today but it turned out to be corded. That totally wouldn't have worked and seems dangerous as well. They didn't seem to have any with batteries - though they are being made - so I exchanged it for a gas powered monstrosity. :sigh:

[Dingfod]

The bestest earth-friendly lawnmower:

http://greenfield.fortunecity.com/garden/156/sheep.jpg

Second best:
Pops
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/cleanairgardening_1959_7651546border=1 (http://www.cleanairgardening.com/corelbrilac3.html)

[LadyShea]

We have a push mower as well, but because hubby was told by the greens keeper at the golf course that they are better for a nice lawn....not because he has a burning desire to be green.

[Dingfod]

The reel-type mowers are better for the grass because they actually pinch the blades of grass off rather than whacking it.

[LadyShea]

The reel-type mowers are better for the grass because they actually pinch the blades of grass off rather than whacking it.


Yeah there was some explanation given. I only allowed a few small patches of actual lawn and hubby is obsesed with them :rolleyes:. We do have a big riding mower to keep the native grasses, etc. trimmed down in the "non-lawn" parts of our lot....we would live in a jungle otherwise.

[Ymir's blood]

We looked at the reel mowers but decided against them. The yard isn't that big but it has a lot of sloped areas. I'd heard that they weren't as good on uneven ground.

[viscousmemories]

I remember mowing the lawn with a human-powered mower when I was very little.

[Watser?]

I tried buying an electric lawn mower today but it turned out to be corded. That totally wouldn't have worked and seems dangerous as well. They didn't seem to have any with batteries - though they are being made - so I exchanged it for a gas powered monstrosity. :sigh:

When I was growing up we had a push mower and a lot of lawn, so my father installed a motor on it, I think it was from an old tumble dryer or washing machine. It worked very well for years until my brother ran over the power cable with the mower. He didn't feel anything though.

[Ymir's blood]

I tried buying an electric lawn mower today but it turned out to be corded. That totally wouldn't have worked and seems dangerous as well. They didn't seem to have any with batteries - though they are being made - so I exchanged it for a gas powered monstrosity. :sigh:

When I was growing up we had a push mower and a lot of lawn, so my father installed a motor on it, I think it was from an old tumble dryer or washing machine. It worked very well for years until my brother ran over the power cable with the mower. He didn't feel anything though.I assume by 'didn't feel anything' you mean he wasn't harmed? That phrase mostly implies that someone had a painless death, at least in the US.

It wasn't just my distrust of a cord that made the electric mower unusable. It was also the lack of any external outlets. There was no way I was going to try and link a bunch of extension cords together and trail them from the outlet in the garage.

[viscousmemories]

:laugh:

I didn't even think of the painless death connotation.

[Watser?]

Heh, yeah, I guess you could read it like that.

It was a hassle to work with extension cords, but it sure beat having to push it to cut the grass.

[seebs]

I can't handle heat at all, so I don't do the AC one.

We switched to nearly-all compact flourescents (and some non-compact) when we got this house. No regrets. Yes, they have some mercury; coal plants release mercury, too, and more of it powering conventional incandescents.

I have a small low-power fan in front of the A/C vent by my bed, keeping my bed cooler than pretty much the rest of the house, and reducing the impact of my cold-sensitivity.

I run a Mac Mini as my main desktop computer; I may be moving to a couple more of them for applications where a 450W computer is simply unnecessary.

I tend to reuse ziploc baggies, although I doubt this is very unusual.

I buy as many books as I can as ebooks rather than physical books. Cheaper media and less of it -- and they're usually a buck or two less per book.

I've switched nearly everything that used to be CRT to LCD displays. I even bought a new KVM switch just so that power-save mode would work properly on the big display.

I tend to recycle bags-from-stores as trash bags, rather than throwing them away in purpose-bought trash bags.

[livius drusus]

Eat your heart out, lisa pea (http://www.myrecycledbags.com/).

[viscousmemories]

I implemented another way to save green and be green yesterday: I changed the ceiling fan switch in my bathroom to a countdown timer; an idea I got from my Mom. Although I confess that I only did it so I could leave the loud, obnoxious ceiling fan on for a few minutes after I use the bathroom without having to worry about remembering/bothering to turn it off 10 minutes later.

[wildernesse]

I finally bought cloth napkins this past week. Four for about $11, I'm sure I could have gotten them cheaper, but eh. Having real napkins makes dinner more real, somehow, like it is an event. We are trying to cut out paper towels and napkins and just use cloth. They won't add anything to our laundry, and we should get most of our money back on them in a couple of months.

I also have started reusing produce bags--rinsing (if needed) and drying them, and then folding them back up to put in my canvas bag for the grocery store. Not really saving any green there, but still. Less plastic!

[LadyShea]

Yay Wildy! I buy cloth napkins whenever I see them on sale. They are all shades of beige even if they don't match exactly, and I keep them in a flat basket on the serving bar so they're handy. I have over a dozen now and just wash them with my towels. It's worked out great.