Evolution of long term friendships

[LadyShea]

On a thread about gift giving on another board, I was told I must "not know <my friend of 20 years> well anymore" since I do not know what kind of music she is into these days. My last discussion with her was about the reported and predicted developmental delays of institutionalized infants, and the probability and possible methods of overcoming them. She was once a special ed teacher and so had some insights into the issue due to her learning disabilties studies. We spoke for several hours.

For the last few years our conversations have revolved around infertility treatments, divorce, reentering the workforce after being a stay at home mom, financial difficulties, custody battles, my deconversion at the same time she became a born again Christian and a host of other intense life issues. We haven't lived in the same state for over 10 years, so I don't see her day to day lifestyle.Talk of music and movies other than brief, "I saw such and such this weekend and really enjoyed it", seems terribly fluffy and unimportant at this juncture of our friendship and our lives.

Does anyone else have a long term friend? How has your friendship evolved over the years? Does anyone agree with the other poster that knowing current musical tastes is the benchmark for "knowing someone well"?

[wade-w]

I have no friends period, much less long term ones.

[LadyShea]

I have no friends period, much less long term ones.

You have online friends. Those count in my book.

[AspenMama]

I think that evolution is the hallmark of long term friendships. If you don't evolve, it's likely that as your lives change, you'll fall away from each other. I've several friends with whom this has happened-- our lives have changed so much, yet we tried to keep the same friendship. It didn't work. Now we rarely contact each other. I think it is the same for close love relationships as well-- without the ability to evolve and find one another interesting as your lives and interests change, then the relationship simply dies.

While I know in general my brothers' musical tastes, I would say what binds us together most deeply is respect and knowing that if one of us needed help-- one of us would be there. That is friendship.

[AspenMama]

oops

[Dingfod]

I have two friends that I have maintained contact with since we parted ways after high school some 30 years ago. One is a conservative Christian fundie who loves country music and rock oldies, so does his wife. He nor his wife can carry a tune in a bucket so they don't really sing in church or listen to religious music outside of church. We've corresponded by phone calls, Xmas cards, letters, and in more recent times emails. We visited each other almost annually, us dropping by their Texas home on our way down to visit family. That was the case until we had simultaneous problems with our eldest offsprings, his is in prison for manufacturing and selling meth, mine a recovering meth user and unwed mother in completely unrelated cases. Oddly enough, both of these children of ours are now within 25 or 30 miles of each other, mine with her grandparents and his in a Texas correctional institution, 450-600 miles away from their family homestead. Since his son's problems my friend has turned more religious and with few exceptions now only sends me those "FWD: FWD: FWD: Miracle Child Survives Tragic Accident, Please Read and Send to Everyone" emails.

My other friend lives in Tennessee and has tastes as eclectic as mine, not just in music, but in movies and books. We didn't maintain contact all through the years since high school. When I was 21, I took my newlywed bride up to meet him and they took an instant dislike for each other, bad chemistry. I don't know why. I found him online 15 years later via Prodigy internet service. We started regular communications via emails only at that time, his saucy tales of bachelorhood being not for polite company, and him being on the receiving end of my tales of marital woe and fatherhood. A year or so after I moved from Utah to Oklahoma 4-1/2 years ago, I made my way over to Tennessee to visit him. It was like we had never been apart, instant familiarity. His CD and movie collection is exactly what mine would be if I made six figures like he does and was single like he is, we have almost identical tastes, it was eerie. Since then, he has visited me several times, his parents retired to a town about 50 miles from me and he makes it over here a couple times a year.

Knowing current music tastes is only one aspect of knowing a person well, but I'd say if you really know them well you will probably know that part too. Some people's tastes change over time, some don't. My wife's music tastes were the same as mine in the 1970s, but mine changed with the times, hers have not for the most part. So, even if you knew what a person liked way back when, you may not know now.

[JoeP]

No, knowing current musical tastes is only one of many ways in which you could know about a person. If a friend is passionate about music (a particular genre or band) to the extent of travelling cross-country to concerts, seeking out rare recordings etc, I think it would be odd if I didn't know that. But for most people, it's by no means essential.

[Dingfod]

I have no friends period, much less long term ones.

You have online friends. Those count in my book.I would hope so.

[lisarea]

I just replied to that thread there, but crap I say always bears repeating. Or, you know, gets repeated, anyway. Because I'm old and I forget I already said it.

It's an age thing, IMO. Younger people often define their personalities, form their associations, and cement their friendships around their choice in entertainment. Video games, music, recreational drugs, things like that. It's perfectly normal. You can often tell what kind of music they listen to just by their outfits. When you're in your teens and twenties, even, most people don't exactly have careers that interest them, they haven't had much specialized education, and they just don't have the volume of life experience that you get after being around for a while. Think about how many high school cliques are formed around musical preferences, for example.

Rarely do you see adults forming alliances and rivalries around things like "Punks vs. Metalheads." Adults are much more mature and evolved than that, forging associations and rivalries such as "Marketing Fags vs. Beancounters" and "Pantywaist Liberals vs. Right Wingnuts."

Add to this the fact that many adults kind of abandon their musical interests, or allow them to stagnate, as they get on with their lives. I know I missed several years in music when the Little Muffin was actually a little muffin. Like the Guns n Roses thing, for example, for which I am eternally indebted to him. I only recently heard Sweet Child of Mine. Man, that is a stupid song!

[Shake]

I have one friend whom I've known since 2nd grade and several others I've known since the 7th grade (and I graduated HS in 1988 to give some perspective). The first one, K, and I started drifting apart in early HS -- due in part to his turning fundy -- but have always kept in touch, attended each others' weddings and exchanged Xmas cards. I'd imagine he still listens to mainly Xian music, but I don't know for sure, and I don't think it's important.

People change. They grow up, move away, get jobs, and have families. Even when they're not all that far away, we tend to get caught up in other details of our lives and are just happy to be able to get together with our friends from time to time. Now, I have one such friend who really helped influence where my taste in music is today, so what he or I are listening to would be more relevant to us. In general though, I agree with your standpoint: not necessarily knowing what particular music your friend likes right now is not making you any less of a good friend.

This is post no. CCLXXV

[LadyShea]

I appreciated your reply there lisa. What gets me is that the poster is talking about stupid shit like home decor. Our homes are decorated, my friend's was professionally decorated and she got to take all the designer shit with her after the divorce. I have been married for 13.5 years and have lived in my home for 11 years. I have a complete CD and DVD collection, I am planning to move cross country so am trying to get rid of stuff, not acquire it, I read several books per month. Neither of us needs that shit to be gifted from the other.

[viscousmemories]

I agree that musical taste is just one of the indications that you know someone well, and that it's more important to younger people (and of course people who are heavily vested, like as Joe said total fanatics or, I'd add, musicians). Actually you're my friend and I don't have the foggiest idea what kind of music you like. Maybe I should...

[lisarea]

I appreciated your reply there lisa. What gets me is that the poster is talking about stupid shit like home decor. Our homes are decorated, my friend's was professionally decorated and she got to take all the designer shit with her after the divorce. I have been married for 13.5 years and have lived in my home for 11 years. I have a complete CD and DVD collection, I am planning to move cross country so am trying to get rid of stuff, not acquire it, I read several books per month. Neither of us needs that shit to be gifted from the other.

Yeah. Actually, for all I rail against gift cards as a general concept, it's mostly because in my case, when I've gotten a gift card, it's been from someone I don't know (it's usually from some kind of corporate entity), for some store I'd never go to of my own volition, so it's just like a money gift with some particularly odious strings attached. (Anyone who knows me knows I hate shopping for shopping's sake.) And when I think about it, my best friend and I often take each other out for dinner as a gift-like thing, which is really not all that different, at least conceptually. "You can order whatever you want from this menu, and I'll pay for it." Same basic concept, really.

In your case, once you explained the logic behind it, it makes perfect sense to me. My beef with gift cards is that they're often fairly thoughtless, but in your case, it's just a practical application of a very thoughtful concept, so I think the criticism involves some misunderstanding the basic concept and seeing the situation from an entirely different perspective.

[freemonkey]

What gets me is that the poster is talking about stupid shit like home decor.

That poster is being kind of a jerk about it, and I wanted to say so, but had to run.

I love gift cards. I give them, I love to get them. I give cash, I love to get cash. I know I'm hard to buy for. I hate shopping for most other people, because I don't know what they really want, or what they already have. Why make this harder than it has to be?

I do agree that a $25 gift cerificate to a foofoo store that has only more expensive stuff really sucks though. But places like Target, Amazon, bookstores, or any other place someone likes to shop is great.

[LadyShea]

Yeah. Actually, for all I rail against gift cards as a general concept, it's mostly because in my case, when I've gotten a gift card, it's been from someone I don't know (it's usually from some kind of corporate entity), for some store I'd never go to of my own volition, so it's just like a money gift with some particularly odious strings attached. (Anyone who knows me knows I hate shopping for shopping's sake.) And when I think about it, my best friend and I often take each other out for dinner as a gift-like thing, which is really not all that different, at least conceptually. "You can order whatever you want from this menu, and I'll pay for it." Same basic concept, really.

Totally understood, as you demonstrated in your Crate and Barrell story. Some thought should go into the GC as well, just like any gift.

I wasn't pissed off at the other poster for not liking gift cards, but for what I felt were ridiculous assumptions and unfair judgements about a relationship with a person who is more or less family to me now. I don't even know if that poster is male or female.

In your case, once you explained the logic behind it, it makes perfect sense to me. My beef with gift cards is that they're often fairly thoughtless, but in your case, it's just a practical application of a very thoughtful concept, so I think the criticism involves some misunderstanding the basic concept and seeing the situation from an entirely different perspective.

And I had no problem whatsoever with yours or anyone else's criticism of gift cards...only the assumptions that I am some kind of bad or clueless friend.

Oh, and wanna trade whore smelling bath shit for some stripper scented bath shit? There's a subtle difference ya know ;)

[livius drusus]

Just for anyone who may not be getting some of the references, the thread that prompted this one is here (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=109860). :)

[lisarea]

Oh, and wanna trade whore smelling bath shit for some stripper scented bath shit? There's a subtle difference ya know ;)

Ooh, stripper scented? CLASSY!

Of course, my favorite scent is actually dirt, so it's kind of funny that I'm complaining about the skankstink.

[LadyShea]

Just for anyone who may not be getting some of the references, the thread that prompted this one is here (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=109860). :)

Thanks, I kinda was just rambling on my thoughts about long term friendships...well relationships of any kind and didn't think to link to the discussion. I was kinda wondering if I AM clueless and weird or if this kind of shift of emphasis is normal after years and years.

[seebs]

When I give someone music, I generally do a mix CD of songs that I feel are interesting or relevant in some way... Which has nothing to do with their taste, in the sense of what they like, but a lot to do with their taste, as in what it is to sense them or know them.

But... I have a long-term friend. We only talk occasionally in email, but I betcha that if one of us was suddenly out of work, the other would say "hey, come stay with us, we'll put you up for a while". I only know one album she has or listens to, although I know she does musical performances, so I assume she likes show tunes. :)

I am more aware of the tastes of people I am physically closer to, in general, but that doesn't mean I'm closer to them emotionally.

[JoeP]

You're normal. Don't judge normality by what goes on on message boards. (Well, at least not individuals.)

[livius drusus]

I don't think there's any one thing that defines closeness in a relationship. I know what kind of music the Playmate of the month likes. Doesn't mean she's my friend.

Besides, conversations you have with long distance friendships tend to stick to the major issues. I agree with Joe that unless music is a big part of her life, your not knowing what bands she's into right know means diddleyshit about the quality of y'all's friendship.

[LadyShea]

I think that evolution is the hallmark of long term friendships. If you don't evolve, it's likely that as your lives change, you'll fall away from each other.

YES! My friend and I have had to work through changes and reevaluate things many times, and we both always felt it was worth the effort. I note the same thing in my marriage and even frequent shifts in my relationships with my parents.

[pescifish]

I have no friends period, much less long term ones....ouch...

[pescifish]

I agree with livius and others who say that if music is not a big part of a person's life, then it's not necessarily something that is discussed, even in a close relationship.

The person who made that accusation has a narrow view of the range of interests people have. Hell, I don't even know what music I like, half the time!

[wildernesse]

I have a friend from high school who I write on and off again--we tell each other about the big events in our lives: for me, it's school and RA; for her, it's her husband and her child (soon to be children!). We talk about our families, who know each other. We hear other news through our respective family grapevines. I think the last time I saw her in person was last Christmas. We live across the country from each other.

If there's time when we return to my hometown, and she's still visiting her parents', I'll probably drop in and see her. And it will be just like we see each other every day--hugs and talking. We have similar ties to our hometown and our close families, and similar values--which is what makes us friends, not that we like the same music or color or whatever.