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Zatarra
12-22-2004, 11:17 PM
Hi all. I'm David and I'm a relatively new freethinker and I would like to introduce myself.

I was born into and raised in a practicing Catholic family. I first began having serious doubts about the faith over seven years ago, but until recently they would be resolved by a combination of reading only pro-faith materials and fear of hell. In June of this year I became so sick of the mental acrobatics I had to perform to believe everything the Church teaches, for I was a rather devout Catholic, and suppress my desire to be intellectually honest and consider other possibilities, that I decided to read other points of view. Thanks to some enlightening books and sources on the web, particularly Internet Infidels, I completely lost my faith in a short time. I continued attending Mass, because the fear of hell was so deeply engrained in my psyche, until October when I finally decided that if there exists a deity that is going to punish me for rejecting something as absurd, implausible, and disgusting as Christianity, so be it.

My full deconversion story is rather long, but I haven't published it anywhere. I have recently been working on another document which details my old, defficient reasons for believing and my new reasons for disbelieving. I am more likely to publish that when I am done.

After some time consdering myself agnostic, I now call myself an atheist. I believe the problem of evil is an excellent argument against the existence of a personal deity, one worthy of worship anyway, and if there exists some non-personal force, I don't think it should be considered a deity but something else altogether.

I have looked into Humanism and Universism, but neither of them really suit my views. I am still pro-life because my reasons for opposing abortion are completely secular, though I do now support an exception in the case of the mother's life being threatened. Also, my sexual morality is mostly unchanged, even if I have not ever always lived up to my moral standards. I cannot accept Universism's five basic principles because they make claims to which I do not subscribe.

I simply consider myself a freethinker because I do not believe that any infallible authority can possibly be established, thus I must think for myself.

livius drusus
12-22-2004, 11:39 PM
Thank you for such a careful and detailed introductory post, David. Your process of self-discovery seems to have been a difficult one - thoughtfulness sure can suck sometimes - but I'm glad to see you continue on your voyage undeterred.

I must admit I have a rather large soft spot for Catholicism, but that's probably because I never was an actual Catholic and therefore never had to cope with a fear of hell. I just got all the bennies (Advent Calendars and midnight mass at St. Peter's and Gregorian chants) at the cheap price of a few bored hours of gratuitous masses at school.

I'd be very curious to hear more about your exploration of Humanism and your reasoning on abortion. Perhaps in new threads so as not to derail this one?

Welcome to FF, David. :welcome2:

godfry n. glad
12-22-2004, 11:43 PM
Ah....another lapsed Catholic to add to the brew.

Welcome aboard, David.

godfry n. glad

viscousmemories
12-22-2004, 11:50 PM
:welcome: to the FF, David.

I agree with liv on all points, thanks for the intro and I look forward to more.

I was raised a Catholic in an ecumenical, charismatic Christian community. Or something like that. I wasn't very attentive. :D

I quit believing in the existence of a God or gods and became instead a strong atheist when I was introduced to existentialism about 15 years ago. I got my start reading and babbling about these issues at IIDB about two years ago.

I don't call myself a strong atheist, weak agnostic, freethinker or anything else nowadays. But more because I have chosen to eschew simplified labels than because they are wholly inapt.

Dingfod
12-23-2004, 12:07 AM
I was raised a Catholic...Mother Mary and Joseph,... uh, nevermind.

I don't call myself a strong atheist, weak agnostic, freethinker or anything else nowadays. But more because I have chosen to eschew simplified labels than because they are wholly inapt.You, sir, are nothing, as am I.

Welcome, David.

Adora
12-23-2004, 12:41 AM
Yo.

Whilst I understand the whole Catholicism thing (I was raised one myself) I have to admit I missed out on the whole "fear of hell" gimmick. I think I got ripped off with my Catholic experience. I demand a refund!

ceptimus
12-23-2004, 01:00 AM
Hi. :wave:

Lapsed Catholics tend to have a 'God shaped hole' in their lives for a while, and naturally tend to search for something to fill it. The hole tends to mend itself though, given time, so there is no real need to plug it. There is a danger of pluging the hole with with something equally absurd, if you rush.

Good luck. I'm looking forward to hearing more about your journey.

Zatarra
12-23-2004, 01:54 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone! :wave:

I don't know why some people acquire a strong fear of hell while it hardly seems to make an impression on others, even among the fairly devout. I know that reading Hell & How to Avoid Hell from TAN Books didn't help, but it only reinforced something that was already there. From time to time I still worry about the possibility, though it helps to review my reasons for disbelieving. That's one of the reasons I'm writing the document I mentioned, so that it they're readily available when I need them.

I will write about my views on abortion and Humanism in another thread. Soon, I hope.

And, Adora, the fear of hell thing, it's frightening. I used to think about it all of the time, especially since I was rather scrupulous for a long time. It was mostly the eternal aspect and not the intensity of the pain that really got to me. I do think the absurdity and repulsiveness of the doctrine did help me in my deconversion, if I had to say one good thing about it.

:snowflake: Happy Belated Winter Solstice! :snowflake:

godfry n. glad
12-23-2004, 03:19 AM
It's getting brighter every day now, ain't it?

Happy solstice to you, too. We have a fair number of summer solsticians on this board.

Y'know, I sorta came to all that hell and brimstone from a ways off. My father was a doubter; he never went to church and never saw a need. My mother grew up on the Church of the Brethen in Indiana and sorta melded into the United Methodists. I didn't get a whole lot of indoctrination, especially since my father thought we should be old enough to reason before we were subjected to propaganda.

I never went to church until I was a teenager, and then I went to the local Methodist youth group with a friend. I entered as the friendly skeptic and left as one. I had a nice time and met a lot of nice coffee and donut christians....particularly girls my age.

I remember having long rambling discussions as a 12 and 13 year old about things like damnation. We had a Baptist friend who was always trying to recruit us into their youth programs. He and his family were big on hell. I could never understand why these nice folks found it necessary to scare themselves to hell. I thought it weird, to be frank. The whole soul thing was pretty imaginative, too.

I always thought it fun to discuss who they thought was and wasn't going to go to hell. Whoever they were that believed it. It seems to me it always varied.

godfry

livius drusus
12-23-2004, 01:37 PM
I checked out your homepage, David, and it's fascinating. I don't think I've ever known anyone with such a breadth of knowledge of constructed languages. I very much hope to see that come up in a thread or two as well.

Oh, and have you noticed our "Salute This" smiley category? :)

Zatarra
12-24-2004, 12:38 AM
Yes, I noticed the “Salute This” category earlier, and I like it, but unfortunately it's not often that they seem appropriate in posts. Flags make better avatars than smileys, but I am glad that they are available!

Sweetie
12-24-2004, 04:02 PM
Yes, I noticed the “Salute This” category earlier, and I like it, but unfortunately it's not often that they seem appropriate in posts. Flags make better avatars than smileys, but I am glad that they are available!

Awesome signature!

livius drusus
12-24-2004, 04:54 PM
Yes, I noticed the “Salute This” category earlier, and I like it, but unfortunately it's not often that they seem appropriate in posts. Flags make better avatars than smileys, but I am glad that they are available!

You're so right. We've had all kinds of problems trying to work the flags into 10 Random Smilies (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=536) stories, although some of our membership has proven more creative on that score than I ever thought possible.