O! To be In England,….

[BDS]

O.K. Unlike the England of Browning’s famous poem, it isn’t April. Nonetheless, I’m off to England in a week and a half.

My itinerary is pretty well set: Bath, North Wales, The Lake District, Edinburgh, York, Oxford. Sort of an interior circuit (16 days, rush tour).

Any suggestions about “can’t miss” but lesser-known sights along the way? We’ll see some literary stuff – Tintern Abbey – sight of Wordsworth’s famous poem, and his cottage in the Lake District. We get to stay in Brasenose College (Oxford U.) at the end of the trip, because my girlfriend is lecturing there (I’m flying home before I have to hear any lectures). We’ll hit the Edinburgh Festival in Scotland.

Any other suggestions? We're renting a car, so we have flexibility.

[Leesifer]

My sister-in-law lives very near to Oxford, BDS. I'll ask her if she has any recommendations.

If you have the time, you should walk the wall (http://www.britainexpress.com/cities/york/wall.htm) around York.

Arthur's Seat (http://www.scottishsport.co.uk/walking/arthurseat.htm) in Edinburgh is a nice walk, with spectacular views and a ruin to explore.

[Watser?]

O! To be In England,….

Under water?

[BDS]

Thanks, Leesifer. Those spots look great.

I know England is flooded -- but I imagine they'll clean things up by the time I get there.

I'm going on a side-trip from Bath to Glastonbery -- where Joseph of Aramathea (sp?) supposedly borught the Holy Grail to England. If Galahad can see it, I don't see why I can't.

[ceptimus]

The Great Orme (http://www.llandudno.com/orme.html) at Llandudno in North Wales is worth a visit. It has some interesting archaeology, history, botany and scenery.

(O! To be in Wales, not England... ;) )

[maddog]

YORK
In York, I really enjoyed the Minster, and be sure to visit the undercroft. They discovered an Anglo Saxon stone coffin down there when they were reinforcing the foundation. If it's available to do so, you should walk the old City Wall. (That was my three-star favorite!) Just outside the wall, near the gate by the Minster, and also near the Ouse River, is/was a ruined abbey founded by William Rufus (William II). An excavation nearby showed various levels of walls, from Roman, Norman, medieval, on up. Inside the town, "the Shambles" are some nice timbered buildings -- I think they were the meat market/slaughterhouse district. I enjoyed the Clifford Tower, a Norman motte which at one time had a wooden defensive structure on it. IIRC, a community of Jews who took refuge there were burned alive. There's a stone tower there now (at least there was 30 years ago!). There's also a farm-life or folk museum (recommended) and a Disney-esque reenactment of Viking life in Jorvik (or something like that, the old Viking name; "Eboracum" was the Latin/Roman name for the city) to which I haven't been and therefore can neither recommend nor discommend.

EDINBURGH
In Edinburgh, I recommend the Castle complex, at one end of the Royal Mile, and Holyrood Palace, at the other. In between are St. Giles cathedral, where the Knights of the Thistle have assigned pews, John Knox's house, a camera obscura, and in one of the closes is a house called "Gladstone's Land," which shows what it was like to live there in the 17th C. The Royal Mile is in the "Old Town" -- across the moat in the "New Town," where the gentry moved in the 1800's, they also have a model Georgian house, in Charlotte Square.

For views of the city, if you have some time, you can't do better than a hike up Arthur's Seat -- there's a path on the back side which even non-hikers like me can accomplish. Arthur's Seat and the Salisbury Crags are down at the Holyrood Palace end of town. Of course, the view from the Castle Esplanade is also pretty nice. Other outdoorsy things include a nice walk through the Dean Village, or a visit to Cramond, right on the Forth. At South Queensferry or Portobello on the Firth of Forth, you can see the Forth Road Bridge and the Forth Rail Bridge. On the way out of the city to the southeast is Craigmillar Castle, which was a favorite of Mary Queen of Scots. It's mostly ruined now. Golf is everywhere, and I think there is a links at Meadow Park, off Melville Place, in the heart of the city. I saw kids carrying golf bags on the bus commonly in Edinburgh. Dalkeith Park, on the grounds of an estate of the Duke of Buccleuch (pronounced "Buh-KLEW" as far as I can tell), is open for visiting at some times of the year. On the north side of town is Fettes College (I think Tony Blair went there). There's a botanical garden on the north end of town as well, and I forget where the zoo is. The zoo is famous for its variety of penguins, and the penguin parade at 4 p.m. every day. The AB Dick Veterinary School used to operate some pony treks in the Pentland Hills; I don't know if they still do, esp. if it's not term time.

For museums, the Royal Scottish Academy is near Waverly Station, and the science museum (I forget the exact name) is near the Old College. The Old College is off the High Street where you cross from North Bridge to South Bridge, and the science museum is behind the Old College quad. In the New Town there's an archaeological museum. There's also a "museum of childhood" I never visited somewhere in town.

Off the High Street over the George IV Bridge (the "Cowgate" street passes below) is Greyfriars' Kirk, made famous by "Greyfriars Bobby," a Skye terrier so loyal to his master that after the master died and was buried in the kirkyard, the dog would visit the grave every day. A small statue of the dog is in the street outside the kirk.

For literary connections, IIRC, there is a pub on the High Street called "Brodie's" supposedly frequented by Deacon Brodie, an upstanding pillar of the community by day, and a cat-burglar at night, whose real-life story inspired Dr.Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. There are several Burns associations in town. On the Grassmarket, far below the Castle wall, there is a pub frequented by Burns, and in the Old Town off the High Street is a close where there is a house he once stayed in. "Lady Stair's House" has been turned into a museum to the memory of Burns, Stevenson and Scott. The Scott monument is on Princes Street, and Burns has a monument on Calton Hill.

I know there's more, but that's all I can remember off the top of my head.

#1194

[Leesifer]

The Great Orme (http://www.llandudno.com/orme.html) at Llandudno in North Wales is worth a visit. It has some interesting archaeology, history, botany and scenery.

(O! To be in Wales, not England... ;) )

Heh! Funny you should say that, cep. Someone I work with came back to work today from his holiday with family in Wales. He's totally sun burned. They had absolutely brilliant weather. Bastards!

[livius drusus]

I've never been to Edinburgh, but I'd definitely put the South Bridge Vaults (http://www.mercattours.com/the-vaults-vigil.asp) on my itinerary.

[BDS]

Thanks, everyone. We're staying in Conwy for a couple of nights, so we'll doubtless see Great Orme, cept. Your tips on Edinburgh and York sound great, maddog, and livius turned me on to a tour that not only sounds great, but at 30 pounds per person is the cheapest thing you can actually do anywhere in Great Britain.

[livius drusus]

Cool! Be sure to report back so I can live vicariously through you. :hyper:

[godfry n. glad]

Hmmm...I'll second all maddog's recommendations regarding York. Despite it's 'cheeziness', I do recommend the 'Disney-esque' Yorvik Viking Centre attraction, as it is built in the hole made by the archeological dig and recreates a Viking community - complete with smells. Don't miss the 'scratch and sniff' postcards, either, complete with the pig wallow and latrine pit. The wall walk is a MUST. When we were there, the city provided trained wall-walk guides at no cost. I took in everything maddog did about 17 years back, so who knows what has changed in the interim.

I'm a fan of standing stones, so if you're doing the Lake District, don't miss the Castlerigg Stone Circle, just a short walk from Keswick. We were bussing and the bus dropped us there and we walked into town. If either of you is a Beatrix Potter fan, her farm home, now a National Heritage site, is near Sawry. We enjoyed the Windemere Lake area and the nearby towns, like Ambleside, Grasmere and Hawkshead. Picturesque, it is. We stayed in Kendal, which has a decent rural life museum and the ruins of an ancient castle. Of course, if you're a Wordsworth fan, he walked all over the area and wrote a great deal about his ramblings, I'm told. Here's a decent site for Cumbria (http://www.golakes.co.uk/map/), but if you have the chance, you might want to pump MooseIBe, as she lives in the Lake District.

I heartily recommend the side trip to Glastonbury, but be prepared for a large gathering of throwbacks, as the town is filled with hippy-dippy types selling crystals, doing tarot readings and all sorts of New Age woo-woo. Be sure to climb the Tor, as the view is great. At the base of the Tor is the Chalice Garden, which is a really decent little escape from the hubbub of all the tourists and a very nice garden (reputedly the Chalice is buried underneath and the spring which wells up there is supposed to have curative powers for those who drink the spring water. The fees were nominal. We did not enter the Glastonbury Abbey, as we thought it hideously overpriced.

Bath is an incredibly boring town, so far as I was concerned, but a visit to the Roman baths is a must.

Edinburgh has been more than adequately covered by maddog. I'd say it's too bad you're not going further north, particularly if you happen to be a Scotch whiskey fan. The Whiskey Road runs across Scotland north of Aberdeen and many of the distilleries along the way offer tours, complete with free samples. I visited the Justerini & Brooks (J&B) distillery in the little town of Keith, on the Whiskey Road, which is on the British Rail line from Aberdeen to Inverness. Inverness is one of my favorite cities in the world and Loch Ness, complete with castle ruins is very nearby. There is also the West Highland Line train from Inverness to Kyle-on-Lochalsh, where one can cross to the Isle of Skye.

If you're in Oxford, I'd recommend trying a tour of the Cotwolds, which are quite nearby. Avebury is not too far away, either, if you go in for standing stone circles. It is reputedly the grandpappy of them all, originally being larger than Stonehenge.

[Uthgar the Brazen]

If Galahad can see it, I don't see why I can't.

Galahad sported a totally fantastic ass. If your ass is totally fantastic, too, then you should.

/theory

[BDS]

I don’t know about the “fantastic ass” bit – but Sir Galahad and I share certain qualities. For example:

"MY good blade carves the casques of men,
My tough lance thrusteth sure,
My strength is as the strength of ten,
Because my heart is pure.
The shattering trumpet shrilleth high,
The hard brands shiver on the steel,
The splinter'd spear-shafts crack and fly,
The horse and rider reel:
They reel, they roll in clanging lists,
And when the tide of combat stands,
Perfume and flowers fall in showers,
That lightly rain from ladies' hands."

My travel companion (by the way) may be disappointed to learn that…

”I never felt the kiss of love,
Nor maiden's hand in mine.
More bounteous aspects on me beam,
Me mightier transports move and thrill;
So keep I fair thro' faith and prayer
A virgin heart in work and will.”

The whole poem is here:

Sir Galahad by Alfred Lord Tennyson (http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/sir-galahad/)

[Uthgar the Brazen]

:love: Tennyson! :)

And, uh, how you doin'? :eyes:

[curses]

I keep reading this thread title as Oi to be in England.

I don't have much to add other than Stratford upon Avon was very nice but extremely tourist-trap. Imagine a Williamsburg, VA-type town dedicated to Shakespeare. Well, minus the people wandering around the street in period clothing.

[Pendaric]

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-vh/w-visits.htm

More places to see than you will have time to do.

Particular shout out for Fountains Abbey, which is a world heritage site and is well worth the visit.

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-vh/w-visits/w-findaplace/w-fountainsabbeyandstudleyroyalwatergarden/

http://home2.btconnect.com/Crusader-Product/Fountains-Abbey/Fountains-Abbey-LS.jpg

York is possibly my favourite city in the entire world, and I second the recommendations you have. I've worked on the Minster, and at various historical sites around there taking asbestos out.

[godfry n. glad]

Good point, bb...

Hey, I hear there is a real studley park right there at the abbey.

In case you haven't found your way there yet, here (http://whc.unesco.org/) is the UNESCO World Heritage site. Once in, go to the sitefinder map in the upper left and zoom in on the UK. It will highlight those sites approved as World Heritage Sites. I check it before I go anywhere overseas.

[JoeP]

We're renting a car, so we have flexibility.

A boat might be more flexible ... take waterproofs, wellies (boots), umbrella ...


Bath is beautiful. We used to live in Weston Park West, but I'm sure you'll stick to the main central sights. Watch out for crusties, though.

[godfry n. glad]

A lot of these, eh?

http://www.paintball.com.pt/fotos/util/Krusty/krusty-psy.GIF

[livius drusus]

:giggle:

[California Tanker]

Bath is beautiful.

I wouldn't drink the water though. Took me most of a day to get rid of the taste.

(The 'healthy mineral water', not the tap water)

Bovington has an excellent tank museum, if you're interested. I'm told Duxford's pretty on the ball these days if you like airplanes, but I've not been in a decade.

NTM

[JoeP]

Bath is beautiful.

I wouldn't drink the water though. Took me most of a day to get rid of the taste.

(The 'healthy mineral water', not the tap water)

"Not for internal consumption"

It is a bit pongy.

[Shake]

"To be In England,
in the summertime
with my love
close to the edit"

[BDS]

Thanks to everyone who made recommendations – many of which I took.

In Edinburgh, I saw the Racine play “Phaedra” in Craigmillar Castle (which Maddog recommended visiting.) Phaedra is a play about Theseus, his wife Phaedra (sister of Ariadne who helped him defeat the Minotaur and escape the Labyrinth), and his son. Phaedra develops an unholy lust for her step-son, which leads to complications.

The play was set in Medieval Scotland (instead of Athens), and Theseus and his son were English conquerors, rather than Greeks. The audience moved from battlement, to hall, to battlement as the scenes changed.

Other highlights of the trip: Dove Cottage and Tintern Abbey– Wordsworth’s home in the Lakes, and the Welsh subject of one of his most famous poems, respectively. Hiking in Wales and in the Lakes was excellent. I got to stay in luxurious digs at Brasenose College, Oxford. I assume they’re a “Fellow’s” or “Professor’s” (or whatever they call them these days) quarters during the school year. We also ate at “The Eagle and Child” in Oxford, the Pub where Inklings (the literary group including Tolkien, Lewis and Williams) met every Tuesday for 15 years.

I did not go on the subterranean and supernatural tour of Edinburgh, livius, as I ran out of time. However, I did notice that every city in England and Scotland has a similar supernatural tour on which the credulous (or the amused) can spend their money.

Despite daily assurances in the press that a breakthrough in the case was imminent, Madeleine McCann is still missing.

[livius drusus]

Sounds like a great time, BDS. Welcome back. :)