We're Torchwood, these are my shiny teeth

[Novowels]

I guess I'm a bit late on this, but in my defense BBC America is just getting them over here now (about halfway through the season).

It takes a big dose of 'ok, let's not take this seriously at all' but all in all I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Anyone else?

The thread title is from the Dead Ringers spot-on parody of the show (http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ZoWt1WH3xc).

[curses]

Ya know, I liked the first few of them. I don't know what changed but they're not nearly as enjoyable to me.

[wildernesse]

I love Torchwood, mostly because it is just scary/creepy enough for me.

Plus, I learn important skills from the show. Like when you get out to examine what may be a body in the road, do not leave your keys in the car or the car door open. (Well, preferably do not stop or get out of your car, but if you must, then. . .) These are the kinds of things that I think, hmmm, note to self!

[BrotherMan]

I'm enjoying it a good deal. It feels a little hodge-podge right now but it's entertaining none-the-less. With Harkness in charge Torchwood seems a little scatterbrained in its abilities and scope. (Which of course it is seeing as it was destroyed by Daleks last season.) In a way I had hoped that it could keep the "no killing" sensibility of Doctor Who, but I guess its stark difference from its parent show is part of its draw.

[Novowels]

Ya know, I liked the first few of them. I don't know what changed but they're not nearly as enjoyable to me.

From what I understand, this is a common refrain. According to most of the other people that have said that it 'picks up again at the end' so hopefully that's so!
Plus, I learn important skills from the show. Like when you get out to examine what may be a body in the road, do not leave your keys in the car or the car door open. (Well, preferably do not stop or get out of your car, but if you must, then. . .) These are the kinds of things that I think, hmmm, note to self! :laugh: Indeed!

I'm enjoying it a good deal. It feels a little hodge-podge right now but it's entertaining none-the-less. With Harkness in charge Torchwood seems a little scatterbrained in its abilities and scope. (Which of course it is seeing as it was destroyed by Daleks last season.) In a way I had hoped that it could keep the "no killing" sensibility of Doctor Who, but I guess its stark difference from its parent show is part of its draw. Yeah, one thing I kind of wish they'd do is delve into the past, the political aspects, and the inner workings of Torchwood a bit more. What's left of Torchwood 1? How does their hierarchy work? etc... I'm a bit of a geek for political systems and such though, it would probably bore most people.

[BrotherMan]

Yeah, one thing I kind of wish they'd do is delve into the past, the political aspects, and the inner workings of Torchwood a bit more.

Maybe, maybe, if this first season is successful they'll back fill with the juicy juice of that. For now, I think we just have to live with the 'by the seat of their pants and skins of their teeth' way they're doing things.

What's left of Torchwood 1? How does their hierarchy work? etc... I'm a bit of a geek for political systems and such though, it would probably bore most people.

I thought Torchwood 1 was completely decimated if not totally destroyed, as in, Harkness is Torchwood now.

[Deadlokd]

Unmitigated crap. That is all.

[Novowels]

Unmitigated crap. That is all. But fun unmitigated crap!

About the only thing I could do without is the whole "Torchwood: beyond the government blah blah" opening.

Something a little less forced and cheesy could surely be found.... If not, silence is the answer.

[Adora]

I tried to watch them but all I could keep thinking is how unsexy Jack was compared to his incarnation in Dr Who (NEEDS MOAR DAVID TENNANT), and whether the chick who plays Gwen could shoot a peanut between her front teeth.

[BrotherMan]

I noticed all of that too. But I just shrugged my shoulders and said "It's very British," and kept on enjoying it.

[Adora]

Believe it or not, Britain has a very good dental health service.

[curses]

:dddp:

[curses]

(NEEDS MOAR DAVID TENNANT)Yes pls!

[Novowels]

Yeah, the gap shits me. I'm sure they think it adds CHARACTER or somesuch, though.

[California Tanker]

I watched them all some time ago on torrent. Certainly worth watching, though the series finale was a bit dodgy. I really could do without the whole "Everyone wants to sleep/is sleeping with everyone else" subplots.

I'm on a TW site run by a friend of mine, I'm the resident nitpicker. For example...

1) Two of you are armed and about to forcibly enter a house. Do you
a) Bash in the front door.
b) Climb in a window.
BZZZT.. Wrong answer.
2) You have decided to go in the front door. One of you is immortal, immune to gunfire, knives, aging, and anything else nasty, also has years of experience. One of you is a street bobby recently introduced to firearms and tactical maneuver. Do you
a) Send the immortal person in first
b) Send the mortal one in first.
BZZZT.. Wrong answer.

3) You are a secret organisation, non-existant to all, beyond the government (But answerable to the PM!), even with a secret base. Do you
a) Drive a huge black SUV with flashing lights, extra antennae, and "TORCHWOOD" plastered all over it
b) Drive an unmarked, dark green Land Rover.
BZZZT.. Wrong answer.

I've also got a long essay analysing Captain Harkness' military career and how his holding of that rank was impossible.

There's a TW season 2 being made I'll download it when it's available I'm sure. Personally, I'm still waiting for Life on Mars season 2 to show up on BBC America.

NTM

[Dragar]

The season ending was apalling.

It's not a good show. Watchable (sort of) but not good. Dr Who is only just superior.

[BrotherMan]

I don't know. I find it at least mildly entertaining. That's what I get for watching telly on a Saturday night. If indeed there really is a for reals season 2, I'll hope it gets better - significantly. As bad as it is (and I don't disagree with anyone's complaints) it is still better than so called reality television.

[Novowels]

I watched them all some time ago on torrent. Certainly worth watching, though the series finale was a bit dodgy. I really could do without the whole "Everyone wants to sleep/is sleeping with everyone else" subplots. I find it to be a fairly humourous wink and nod towards the (ever burgeoning) slash community.

I've also got a long essay analysing Captain Harkness' military career and how his holding of that rank was impossible. I never thought he was a real captain, wasn't that just an identity he stole?

I like the rest of the nitpicking, though. :D

[California Tanker]

Aha.. Found my rant.

Something struck me as being a bit amiss in the good 'Captain's' attire: He still wears rank insignia on his greatcoat. Now, despite the issues of wearing military rank in civilian attire being... frowned upon...

According to the record listed in the pilot, Captain Harkness was an American Volunteer in one of the Eagle Squadrons, disappearing January 1941 (133 squadron did indeed exist, and was an Eagle Squadron.)

However, we have some problems.

Firstly, the rank of "Captain" does not exist in the Royal Air Force. It does exist, however, in both the British and the US Armies, considered today as "O-3." Assuming that Harkness managed to somehow 'leave behind' his Lahore Army time (At which point he did hold the British Army rank of Captain, three pips, and I'll leave out the time-travelling post-war steam locomotive hauling his 1909 train), and work his way back to the US, he either enlisted in the US military, then went to the RAF with his US rank, or he just enlisted straight into the RAF/RCAF as most volunteers did.

Now, looking at his coat, the rank insignia of four even bands is listed as "O-5" today, "Group Captain." The first catch is that in the US, this is equivalent to a "Lieutenant Colonel", two grades higher than "Captain." As a result, we can conclude then that his 'named' rank cannot be a transfer as a courtesy from prior US service. The RAF equivalent rank to Captain is Squadron Leader, with insignia of two full bars and one half-bar.

The next possibility is that he simply worked his way up the ranks. Unfortunately, from when the first Eagle Squadron was formed in 1940 until his disappearance in 1941, there is zero chance that he could have made it from Pilot Officer to Group Captain, for two very good reasons:

1) Time: It takes years to progress from one half-bar to four full bars.

2) The RAF used British officers as Squadron and Flight leaders. (Flight Lieutenants). This restricted any American volunteer to the ranks of Flying Officer and Pilot Officer. (US equivalent 2nd Lieutenant, and something in between that and 1st Lieutenant). Higher than a Squadron Leader is a Wing Commander, three full bars. (US Equivalent, Major). The senior officer in charge of all three Eagle Squadrons would have held this rank. A Group Captain would have commanded a number of Wings.

The upshot of this is that Harkness is wearing rank insignia far above that which RAF Need, Policy or Time Requirements could possibly allow. Impersonating an Officer is a court-martial offense.


Subsequently

QUOTE (Someone @ Nov 22 2006, 04:55 PM)
We for one don't know enough about Jack's missing 2 years ect. to say that he didn't get the rank anywhere else and kept it...


I considered that possibility, but discounted it as well.

Firstly, the rank is 'Group Captain', not 'Captain'. If you called a GC just 'Captain', you'd be hauled in for an interview without coffee. There is no chance that anyone who earned the rank would belittle it by using a 'shorthand' version. Just for confusion's sake, the Royal Navy's counterpart rank is 'Captain', with similar, but obviously different insignia.

Possibly more likely is that he kept the title from his Army service, which is a little presumptuous: Most early departees from His/Her Majesty's Service don't continue to refer to themselves by rank unless they're retired. In which case, the wearing of Group Captain insignia is wrong. This is especially problematic since he later re-entered the service: How he could possibly be a captain of any description whilst in an Eagle Squadron in 1940 (i.e. per his last official record) cannot, to my knowledge, be explained.

A third, and I'll wager the best, possibilty is that the title 'Captain' as used in the setting of Torchwood is simply an honorarium: The 'Captain' of Torchwood, much like the commander of any ship is called 'Captain', regardless of actual rank. This, however, still leaves us with the issue of explaining how or why the RAF granted a Queen's Commission of up to Group Captain to an American of apparently extremely young age without either updating any new records or deleting old ones. There's also the tradition problem: The Crabs wouldn't go with calling their senior man 'Captain', it's something that the Navy do. Besides, if he's going to stand on military formaility, he knows to wear the uniform correctly.

As a result, I surmise that he wears Group Captain insingia simply because it 'looks cool'.


A fourth option might be that "Captain" is his first name, and "Jack" is his middle name. But that still leaves the rank insignia problem.

NTM