Composting

[livius drusus]

I don't think I have enough plants to make it worth my while at this point, and they don't offer fancy curbside pickup arrangements (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=447134#post447134) in my neck of the woods like they do in godfry's, but someday soon I'd love to reduce my landfill contributions by making nourishing garbage gruel for a garden.

I've been coveting this guy (http://www.composters.com/compost-bins/naturemill-automatic-indoor-composter_19_1.php) for a while because unlike every other composter I knew about, it works on all kitchen waste, including meat, fish and dairy, an can be easily stored indoors. It costs an arm and a leg, though, and requires electricity (albeit very little) to run.

Today I discovered something new that is in wide use in Japan, England, and New Zealand: Bokashi (http://kitchengardenfoods.com/bokashi-efficient-microbes/). It's a composting system that basically pickles kitchen refuse of all kinds, turning into a highly bio-active compost. Here's how it works (http://kitchengardenfoods.com/2006/02/20/bokashi/).

Simply, Bokashi is wheat bran which has been inocculated with molasses, water and Efficient Microbes–a blend of yeasts and bacteria which are helpful rather than harmful. These microbes are both aerobic and anaerobic and can stimulate soil vitality and improve digestion in livestock.

This fermented wheat bran is then used in a composting bucket to pickle and preserve the organic matter you place inside. This differs from normal composting methods in that you don’t need to include paper and other fiberous matter, and that you can compost meats and fish, and other things you wouldn’t normally use due to vermin and odors.

So not only does it turn all your organic food waste into yummies for your soil, but it doubles as a healthy feed for chickens and other livestock. Oh, and it's superfast. Takes about 4 weeks to go from garbage to compost.

Do you compost? Would you do it if you could?

[curses]

That's cool, that Bokashi.

I did for awhile, but we got a bit lazy. I wanted to save up our organic waste and take it to DeKalb Farmer's Market as they have a place where you can dump your organic waste for compost, but we live too far away for it to be feasible.

[Qingdai]

We compost, we just have big black bins in the back. We can't do fats or meats though, mostly because of rats and their love of fatty meaty foods.

[livius drusus]

I wanted to save up our organic waste and take it to DeKalb Farmer's Market as they have a place where you can dump your organic waste for compost, but we live too far away for it to be feasible.
That's way cool. I didn't know they did that. I don't know if I could save it up long enough to make a trip worthwhile, but it's worth looking into, especially if they include meat/dairy scraps.

We compost, we just have big black bins in the back. We can't do fats or meats though, mostly because of rats and their love of fatty meaty foods.
That's the cool thing about Bokashi. It's airtight until the waste has fermented enough to no longer appeal to vermin.

[godfry n. glad]

I don't think I have enough plants to make it worth my while at this point, and they don't offer fancy curbside pickup arrangements (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=447134#post447134) in my neck of the woods like they do in godfry's, but someday soon I'd love to reduce my landfill contributions by making nourishing garbage gruel for a garden.

I've been coveting this guy (http://www.composters.com/compost-bins/naturemill-automatic-indoor-composter_19_1.php) for a while because unlike every other composter I knew about, it works on all kitchen waste, including meat, fish and dairy, an can be easily stored indoors. It costs an arm and a leg, though, and requires electricity (albeit very little) to run.

Interesting. Basically it's a little cooker/composter, which is why the meats and grains can go in. It says it "tells you when its done"...Now, I'm not sure how that works, but it sounds like once you've loaded it, it takes about four weeks to compost it down. Are there replaceable trays, or something? Or, does one complete loading it and then not load it for the requisite four weeks? In the latter case, you'd need two of them, at minimum.

$450 !!!! OUCH!

I paid $25 a bin for my "old style" composters. I think I'll stay with them.

Today I discovered something new that is in wide use in Japan, England, and New Zealand: Bokashi (http://kitchengardenfoods.com/bokashi-efficient-microbes/). It's a composting system that basically pickles kitchen refuse of all kinds, turning into a highly bio-active compost. Here's how it works (http://kitchengardenfoods.com/2006/02/20/bokashi/).

Simply, Bokashi is wheat bran which has been inocculated with molasses, water and Efficient Microbes–a blend of yeasts and bacteria which are helpful rather than harmful. These microbes are both aerobic and anaerobic and can stimulate soil vitality and improve digestion in livestock.

This fermented wheat bran is then used in a composting bucket to pickle and preserve the organic matter you place inside. This differs from normal composting methods in that you don’t need to include paper and other fiberous matter, and that you can compost meats and fish, and other things you wouldn’t normally use due to vermin and odors.

So not only does it turn all your organic food waste into yummies for your soil, but it doubles as a healthy feed for chickens and other livestock. Oh, and it's superfast. Takes about 4 weeks to go from garbage to compost.


Interesting. This sounds like punching up the amount of composting critters in the mix. I'm a bit confused about why you would want to "pickle" and "preserve" the organic matter....what you're trying to do is just the opposite. I'd check in to this just to see what the results are when one takes a bucket of this stuff and adds it to existing composters. Would the materials compost any faster? Or, more completely?

Note how blase' Qingdai is about composting. She's living in the same regime as am I. Low cost composters made available through government intrusion in the marketplace and curbside pickup of yard debris due to government mandate and franchising.

Oh...in addition to my stationary composters, I now have two mobile winged composters. They handle all the grain products (and some meats) that I don't throw in the compost bucket. Thass my chickie-babes.

[livius drusus]

Now, I'm not sure how that works, but it sounds like once you've loaded it, it takes about four weeks to compost it down. Are there replaceable trays, or something? Or, does one complete loading it and then not load it for the requisite four weeks? In the latter case, you'd need two of them, at minimum.
It's continuous. The completed compost drops into a removable lower bin as soon as its ready while you keep tossing the trash in the top bin.

I guess it all depends on how much waste you produce. A big family might need a second one if they fill up the first one in less time than it takes to finish the composting cycle, but I doubt it would be an issue with the amount of trash I generate.

$450 !!!! OUCH!

I paid $25 a bin for my "old style" composters. I think I'll stay with them.
Ya that kind of price tag puts it into a scary bracket, like the conspicuous consumer hippy bracket. :shudder:

Interesting. This sounds like punching up the amount of composting critters in the mix. I'm a bit confused about why you would want to "pickle" and "preserve" the organic matter....what you're trying to do is just the opposite.
I think that's just counterintuitive phrasing. Bokashi means "fermented organic matter" in Japanese, so the decomposition method is fermentation as opposed to putrefaction, which is why it doesn't reek and attract vermin.

The waste doesn't actually break down until after you bury it, though, so while it's still in the bin it looks pickled. This Aussie site (http://www.bokashi.com.au/How-Bokashi-works.htm) has some good pics and video.
I'd check in to this just to see what the results are when one takes a bucket of this stuff and adds it to existing composters. Would the materials compost any faster? Or, more completely?
This I don't know. It looks super rich and loamy once it's dug up, though, that's for sure.

Note how blase' Qingdai is about composting. She's living in thyaye same regime as am I. Low cost composters made available through government intrusion in the marketplace and curbside pickup of yard debris due to government mandate and franchising.
I'm quite jealous of y'all's blaséness. Lucky PNW commies. :shakefist:

Oh...in addition to my stationary composters, I now have two mobile winged composters. They handle all the grain products (and some meats) that I don't throw in the compost bucket. Thass my chickie-babes.
:lol: Cutest. Composters. Ever.

[freemonkey]

I have a couple medium sized black plastic bins in my yard for yard waste. Can't put food in because the rats would take whatever the dog didn't get. I would like to do more, but our yard is not really set up for it. I turn it a few times a year and get some great soil out of it.

I have vegetarian friends who compost almost everything. Beside the compost piles, they have a really nifty worm farm and another thing that is buried in the ground.

liv, didn't you post info about a small turning composter a few years ago?

[livius drusus]

I might have, freemonkey. I was definitely eyeing the tumblers back then, like this one (http://www.composters.com/compost-tumblers/eco-cycle-base-tumbler_27_2.php).

[godfry n. glad]

I've had a couple of friends who've had the tumbler type, a large plastic barrel on a pin it revolves around. They both decided to return to stationary bins...but I'm not sure why. Although, I've heard that the tumbler bins tend to be pricey.

I've also seen the oversized gerbil ball composter that one turns by pushing it about the yard. I've never known anyone who had one.

Back in the day when I was hauling trash, the coop I worked for was the one, and only, refuse collection outfit that picked up separated kitchen scraps at curbside. We had two of the large concrete mixers which had been unmounted from their truck chasis and modified for composting (an opening cover, mainly). Returning haulers added their collected wastes and the mixer drums turned twice a day. You never wanted to be downwind when they were being turned. We had reasonable luck and guaranteed regular providers of compostables half a cubic yard of compost each year, no cost but that they had to pick it up and haul it themselves. Our biggest problems were folks putting in meat products, which led to a worse stench at turning and bones in the product, and rubber bands like those used to bundle broccoli and asparagus, which also went all the way through the process and showed up in the final product. It was a funky process with a funky product, but we won kudos from environmental types for even doing it (it was 1984, though).

Kitchen scraps are one thing....the real challenge is composting toilets.

[Ymir's blood]

they have a really nifty worm farm and another thing that is buried in the ground.
I can't help but think of that out of context.

[Qingdai]

Godfrey, did you work for Sunshine recycling by chance?

One of the reasons I am rather blase about composting is I grew up on a farm and we had no garbage or anything pick up at all. Either we composted or hauled it out.

The tumblers work pretty well, I guess they could eventually, like anything with moving parts, break down.

Also I hear they have finally perfected composting toilets somewhere in Europe about 10 years ago! Biolet toilets, amusing titled "here you go," (http://www.biolet.com/) another toilet (http://www.sun-mar.com/).

[godfry n. glad]

Godfrey, did you work for Sunshine recycling by chance?

Sunflower, actually. Sunflower Recycling Co-operative, a worker-owned and operated refuse and recycling collection company.

One of the reasons I am rather blase about composting is I grew up on a farm and we had no garbage or anything pick up at all. Either we composted or hauled it out.

Yeah...I can see that. I'll bet you burned a fair portion, too. In my day, we had a burn barrel in the backyard...in the city. We'd load it with prunings and add junk mail and catalogs and let'r rip. Quite the carbon footprint, eh?

The tumblers work pretty well, I guess they could eventually, like anything with moving parts, break down.

"Everything put together sooner or later falls apart." ~ Paul Simon

Also I hear they have finally perfected composting toilets somewhere in Europe about 10 years ago! Biolet toilets, amusing titled "here you go," (http://www.biolet.com/) another toilet (http://www.sun-mar.com/).

There was a well-known developer/contractor around Puddle City (I believe he designed and built the Inn at Otter Crest) back about 30 years ago who was in to promoting composting toilets out of Scandinavia. It never seemed to go anywhere...

Being blasé about composting is not usual. There is a very high "Ick Factor" associated with it.

[Kyuss Apollo]

My semi-wasteland backyard, which we are planning to completely terraform next year, has become a vast composting zone--my wife has the kids just chucking whatever waste vegetable matter off the the deck back there.

So to try to bring some semblance of organization to the current composting program here in KA-land, I tried to buy one of the old-fashioned composting bins on Saturday--the RI Central Landfill was having a 1/2 sale, $25 bucks instead of fitty. Got there a little after 9 am--and the stupid line of cars was way over a mile long, wasted an hour and half waiting only to be told "We just sold the last one--sold over 2000 of them this morning."

At least I was able to leave off a bunch of "hazardous waste" products with the Resource Recovery--old motor oil, dried-up paint, plastic waste, old gasoline...it was an "amnesty day" so leaving all that there was free.

But no composting bin. If only I had the $ for teh one liv linked to on the OP, OMFG! The NatureMill Automatic Indoor Composter rockorz teh big one111!.

[godfry n. glad]

I looked at planetnatural.com (http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xdpy/sgc/Composting/Compost%20Bins?gclid=CNWI0PW4748CFQfuYAodRCGa1A)and composter.com (http://www.composters.com/) and found a couple of good sets of types of composters....including the indoor composting unit liv posted above (@ $450).

Frankly, I'm surprised at the price of this stuff. I got my four (originally five, actually) at $25 a pop, thanks to their subsidization by the local regional government (Metro). The downside was the we had to drive to a distant locale and wait in long lines. The second time, we took lawn chairs and books. Mine are basically the Earth Machine units in the composter.com site, selling at 85.50, plus shipping.

You've got to take into consideration how much you are going to reduce the amount of materials into the waste stream, and usually, into a landfill somewhere. Are the savings you make worth the $450? Or, are you paying for the "coolness" of being an owner of a top-of-the-line, over-the-top, bit of gadgetry? I noted the cedar vented composter that sells for $149.50...That's outrageous. First, find two pallets; there are probably more than that on the loading dock where you work. Then some trash wood. A roll of baling wire, a pair of wire cutters, a pair of pliers, a hammer and some nails, and you're set. Using the trash wood as connectors, nail the two pallets facing each other as far as your trash wood will allow you...square is probably the minimum you want to do. Cobble it together in a location that's away from the house, within easy distance and out of the way (I personally failed on the last, as I have to walk past it all the time...buy, hey). Wiring together four pallets is even easier.

For kitchen scraps, obtain some rabbit wire fencing; 3 ft. high, ~6 ft. long. Clip one end to the other, set upright, cover with old trash can lid. A brick is usually good enough to keep the lid in place, particularly if the diameter of the top of the wire cage is close to that of the trash can lid. This can be easily multiplied to meet sudden demands (aka leaf fall).

Most of the stuff can be picked up at the nearby hardware store or the even the recycling center, if you're lucky (they recycle wooden pallets around here, too).

Obviously, you've got to have a place to do this. None of this is advised for apartment living....except maybe the $450 no smell unit.

I think people should get bonus points for reusing/recycling materials.

[Caligulette]

We compost most of the time.I would like to do it more, but the system my mother in law has developed attracted mice and fruit flies. (She would fill a wee bucket under the sink and then take it out maybe once a day. Not Good.)

[ITSOZAZ]

I don't think I have enough plants to make it worth my while at this point, and they don't offer fancy curbside pickup arrangements (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=447134#post447134)


we have that fancy curbside pickup where i now live. it drives me crazy because it is forced on me. if people want to compost- great, but for those that don't- stick it in a landfill. there's actually plenty of room for our garbage to be buried if we didn't consume and waste so much. i'm sure you'd never see an ant ashamed of its midden...but then you'd never see an ant consume more than it needed...

my wife loves the sacraments in the church of the environmental. she gives me shit for not separating my garbage into four different bins, based on what it is i am throwing out. styrofoam, it seems, is now recyclable. i think it is all bullshit. i think it just means more plastic bins get sold to hold the stuff, while more trucks are on the road, polluting the air- something we actually should do more about. recycling waste actually creates pollution and in my opinion- encourages consumption.

but nevermind...the bleeding hearts, un-religious religious, will just tell me i am totally clueless. i am sure somebody's automatic impulse just then, was to snip that for a quote.:) thing is, i am not. i am also not for ignoring the pollution problem and am all for alternative energy sources that don't poison the air.

i am a huge fan of reducing, something that would help the earth much more than recycling. i try my best to not pollute the earth around me, but i also realize that as a human, i produce waste, and i have no problem with burying it. the bad stuff will stick around, but many of those things that are compostable (is that a word?) will simply leach harmlessly back in the ground. hell...you can even produce methane gas from dumps!!

this action of keeping track of your garbage seems to distract people from the fact that we are making so much of it. there is no thought really given to reducing, except by intelligent people and hippies. we are inundated with ads that tell us to consume, and we feel ok about it because we get a kind of absolution through the act of recycling and personal garbage management.

i am not pointing my fingers at anybody here. i do not know what you do with your garbage. this is my opinion based on my own observations. we need to accept our garbage as a part of being human, not something we constantly feel guilty for. no amount of composting or recycling is going to assuage that feeling...it might work for a while, but until we reduce our consumption, a lot of the world will continue to suffer...because world is what humans eat.

remember- i am addressing people that compost and recycle only because the government tells them it is good for them. i am talking about people like my parents and even my wife- dollar store lovers and shopping channelettes, who devour the earth and then try to put it together again...they still love me...and i love them.

yes yes, d. scarlatti...


just a rant inspired by the topic...nothing about you, liv. maybe i am just mad because they refused one of our boxes because it wasn't packed properly. my wife felt like a criminal. i felt like punching somebody. :)


michael :)

[lisarea]

I stoled a compost bin idea from one of Dingfod's posts and just drilled some holes around a black plastic trashcan with a locking lid, and sometimes knock it over on its side and roll it around. Once it's full, we dump it in the garden (which has a separate fence to keep the dog out).

We had surprise pumpkins grow out of it last year, and I made compost pumpkin pies.

[xyza]

Someone in the blogosphere has a wormery (http://akelamalu.blogspot.com/2007/05/its-arrived.html), if I could compost I would, I don't even have a garden anymore though

[Plant Woman]

A worm bin is a great way to go for kitchen wastes. And what comes out is pretty awesome stuff!

An acre of good soil can have 2 to 3 million earthworms living there. What's more remarkable is they can move 18 tons of soil a year. Worm poop, or vermicastings is higher in organic matter then soil untouched by worms, as much as 50% higher. The nutrients in vermicastings are higher in phosphate, potash, nitrogen, magnesium and calcium.

For areas with vermin, a worm bin is a good answer when protected from rodents. What goes in as kitchen scraps comes out a rich compost without backbreaking turning. Just shovel the good stuff out and keep feeding the worms. In most areas just build it, add food and they will come.

[livius drusus]

My semi-wasteland backyard, which we are planning to completely terraform next year, has become a vast composting zone--my wife has the kids just chucking whatever waste vegetable matter off the the deck back there.
Isn't that a little, erm, stank? Also, does it actually become compost without compression and turning?

But no composting bin. If only I had the $ for teh one liv linked to on the OP, OMFG! The NatureMill Automatic Indoor Composter rockorz teh big one111!.
AINORITE?! Did you see the picture of it in an actual kitchen? It's so sleek and clean I can barely stand it. And since you can put paper in it as well as all kinds of food scraps and refuse, I seriously would have close to no garbage left.

http://www.freethought-forum.com/livius/composter.jpg

You've got to take into consideration how much you are going to reduce the amount of materials into the waste stream, and usually, into a landfill somewhere. Are the savings you make worth the $450? Or, are you paying for the "coolness" of being an owner of a top-of-the-line, over-the-top, bit of gadgetry?
Oh there's definitely the gadget factor for me (I'm a sucker for a cool toy), but I don't care about the top-of-the-lineness. Hell, I wish it were bottom of the line and cost 10 bucks so I could actually afford the sumbitch.

Personally, I don't produce a huge amount of landfill fodder as it is, so it wouldn't make a massive difference to the world or anything. I'd just really, really love to be able to close my own cycle and turn my food waste into food.

Gotta get the garden first, though.

Obviously, you've got to have a place to do this. None of this is advised for apartment living....except maybe the $450 no smell unit.
Bingo. Except I won't have use for all the compost I produce until I have a garden instead of 6 wee potted herbs. It's quite the O. Henry dilemma.

I think people should get bonus points for reusing/recycling materials.
I agree a hundred percent. I really like your pallets idea. :thumbup:

We compost most of the time.I would like to do it more, but the system my mother in law has developed attracted mice and fruit flies. (She would fill a wee bucket under the sink and then take it out maybe once a day. Not Good.)
:gross: Take it outside = make a pile? No containment of any kind?

We had surprise pumpkins grow out of it last year, and I made compost pumpkin pies.
Did you send one to Dingfod?

For areas with vermin, a worm bin is a good answer when protected from rodents. What goes in as kitchen scraps comes out a rich compost without backbreaking turning. Just shovel the good stuff out and keep feeding the worms. In most areas just build it, add food and they will come.
Really? You don't have to intentionally seek out worms to add to the bin?

[viscousmemories]

I'd just really, really love to be able to close my own cycle and turn my food waste into food.
At first glance I missed the first 'food' in that sentence. :vomit:

[freemonkey]

For areas with vermin, a worm bin is a good answer when protected from rodents. What goes in as kitchen scraps comes out a rich compost without backbreaking turning. Just shovel the good stuff out and keep feeding the worms. In most areas just build it, add food and they will come.

How would one protect it from rodents? Should I encase it in galvanized metal or chicken wire or something?

I like the idea of putting our shredded paper in our composter, but I'm having trouble convincing the husband that its much safer there than at the dump.

[xyza]

About worm composting (http://www.originalorganics.co.uk/inside.pdf) this PDF shows and explains the use of worms, they even produce liquid fertiliser and everything goes in !!!

And here (http://www.originalorganics.co.uk/) you can see you can buy sets including the worms ... Sorry it's a UK site but you get the idea.

[godfry n. glad]

For areas with vermin, a worm bin is a good answer when protected from rodents. What goes in as kitchen scraps comes out a rich compost without backbreaking turning. Just shovel the good stuff out and keep feeding the worms. In most areas just build it, add food and they will come.
Really? You don't have to intentionally seek out worms to add to the bin?

Not if you set it up outdoors, on cleared soil. If, however, you're doing indoor vermiculture, you'll have to obtain your own. They can be purchased in large numbers, or passed on from other vermiculturists, rather like sourdough starter.

[godfry n. glad]

For areas with vermin, a worm bin is a good answer when protected from rodents. What goes in as kitchen scraps comes out a rich compost without backbreaking turning. Just shovel the good stuff out and keep feeding the worms. In most areas just build it, add food and they will come.

How would one protect it from rodents? Should I encase it in galvanized metal or chicken wire or something?

I like the idea of putting our shredded paper in our composter, but I'm having trouble convincing the husband that its much safer there than at the dump.

If you set up an open system outdoors, you don't protect it from the rodents. Your best defense is a set of neighborhood cats who like to hunt.

This is why closed systems have become so popular, particularly in urban areas. The bins are enclosed in some way or another in order to keep out rodents and other vermin. But they need air circulation to stimulate the composting, so small rodents may well be present in any case.

Be careful about putting too much paper in your composter and, more important, what kind of paper. Glossy papers are glossy because they are either coated with plastic or clay. Stay with the papers with matte finishes, like newspaper or generic kraft paper grocery bags and corrugated cardboard.

[godfry n. glad]

this action of keeping track of your garbage seems to distract people from the fact that we are making so much of it. there is no thought really given to reducing, except by intelligent people and hippies. we are inundated with ads that tell us to consume, and we feel ok about it because we get a kind of absolution through the act of recycling and personal garbage management. michael :)

While I agree that "reducing" is the best overall approach, in the face of other factors, I think teaching people about "reusing" and "recycling" is the best way to go. I disagree strongly with the above statement. I think if you allow people to just dump everything into one container and the dustman comes once a week and hauls it all away, that doesn't stimulate any thought at all by the consumer/waste generator upon how much they are consuming and how much waste they are producing. It's just "out the door, into the can, and no longer my problem". It just magically becomes no problem. Howsomever, if you teach them that they are producing large amounts of waste, and tell them that large amounts of it could be recycled into valuable products and reduce the stress upon the harvesting of natural resources....THEN they are far more likely to be aware of their consumption and the problems it creates.

Sorry, but I'm still of the opinion that recycling generates more awareness of the need for reduction of consumption.

If you don't like the disposal system that "forces" you to use it, then why don't you just haul your trash yourself? They do allow you to do that, don't they?

And...do they actually mandate the separation of compostables? Mandated curbside pickup of separated compostables? I find that difficult to believe.

[Plant Woman]

Chicken wire would be too big, you want to use the small mesh screens that are big enough to let the worms in and small enough to keep the rodents out. You line the bottom to keep moles and voles from coming up through the bottom. There are lots of way to build them.

I've seen worm bins you keep indoors, but I am not sure I would like something like that. Gnats would seem to be a problem.

[freemonkey]

Be careful about putting too much paper in your composter and, more important, what kind of paper. Glossy papers are glossy because they are either coated with plastic or clay. Stay with the papers with matte finishes, like newspaper or generic kraft paper grocery bags and corrugated cardboard.

I was thinking about the stuff we shred, like CC and bank statements. We recycle all the other stuff.

[Dingfod]

I think if you allow people to just dump everything into one container and the dustman comes once a week and hauls it all away, that doesn't stimulate any thought at all by the consumer/waste generator upon how much they are consuming and how much waste they are producing.Even if you do separate the different items, plastic bottles, glass, cans, etc. it is no guarantee it doesn't all end up at the landfill. I'm pretty sure we've discussed this before, there were news articles a while back about how the plastic and glass were all being dumped in the landfill due to lack of demand. At this time the only real successful home recycling programs on a large scale are aluminum cans and newsprint, most especially aluminum. Plastic recycling is beginning to take off, but demand for the products made from them such as decking material, is still rather limited probably due to price, forcing some locales that do separate it, such as my own, dump it in the landfill with the rest of the trash, a waste, literally.

[godfry n. glad]

I think if you allow people to just dump everything into one container and the dustman comes once a week and hauls it all away, that doesn't stimulate any thought at all by the consumer/waste generator upon how much they are consuming and how much waste they are producing.Even if you do separate the different items, plastic bottles, glass, cans, etc. it is no guarantee it doesn't all end up at the landfill.

Maybe where you're at; around here there is considerable motivation to keep it out of the waste stream headed to the landfill. I suspect it may depend upon what processing facilities are within economically viable distance that transporting to the facilities does not consume more than the value of the recycleable items.

In these parts, we have no shortage of paper processors and all of the recycled paper used by the processors in the region only fills 11% of the need for paperstock in the paper industry. The remaining portions of the recycleable paper used to make new paper products must be trucked in from out of the region. (I will note here that paper producers typically do not produce 100% recycled paper. They tend to prefer a significant portion (25 - 33%) in virgin fiber, because recycled fibers tend to be too short for most paper products.

We also have more glass recyclers locally than I expected.

Plastics is growing, for sure. Ages ago, when we started plastic recycling locally, it was a commodity that was cursed with a plethora of confusing types, each with variant chemistries and, subsequently, with various applications for recycling. It was very, very difficult to maintain markets. That seems to have changed considerably, particularly with some types of plastic. First, the plastics industry was finagled into labelling their products as per type, making it much easier to source separate. Then, products were developed which created a demand for recycled plastic, with polar fleece being the most visible and successful. Yes, polar fleece is made from recycled plastic bottles.

Around here, historically the biggest problem from a recycling point of view has has been recycled steel cans (aka "tin cans"). Because the nearest recycling processor for this item is in Seattle, they have to be shipped there. Thus, it is the most likely to not be recycled, but I'm betting that with the regional government guiding recycling in the area, the losses in steel can recycling is probably subsidized by revenue surpluses from other commodities (if any) or user fees (aka garbage fees collected by franchised haulers).

I'm pretty sure we've discussed this before, there were news articles a while back about how the plastic and glass were all being dumped in the landfill due to lack of demand.

As I understand it, the issue in these parts is landfill space. Of course, now that we haul it 200 miles upriver, transport costs have soared with the increase in fuel costs. That is being addressed in current negotiations between the regional government and the contractor. These negotiations will probably result in an increase in the cost to the source generators, the garbage customers. Around here, this should be an added incentive for the generators to remove recycleable items from their trash cans and put them in the recycle stream, as charges are based upon how much garbage is put out, not recycleables. More recycleables can be placed out at the curb without increasing the perceptible end cost to the consumer. It has been only recently that the idea of allowing franchised haulers to offer every-other-week-pickup service has been floated, because so many locals have reduced their landfill-bound trash to less than a 25-gallon trash can each week with recycling.

Despite ITSOZ' claims that there is some kind of surfeit of landfill sites, I can't help but wonder, if that's the case, why we're shipping all our garbage 200 miles upstream (or, for that matter, why we have irregular news about garbage scows which end up having no port to unload and wander the seas until somebody does something illegal, illicit and immoral with the load). I was under the impression that most folks don't particularly like to live near a landfill. Not only due to the stench, but the heavy truck traffic. Then there's the whole site preparation thing, too. They have to assure that the leachates from the accumulated garbage does not filter into the natural systems. Plus, it creates a desert for indigineous wildlife and a cornicopia for unwanted symbiotic species like rats, seagulls and other vermin.

At this time the only real successful home recycling programs on a large scale are aluminum cans and newsprint, most especially aluminum. Plastic recycling is beginning to take off, but demand for the products made from them such as decking material, is still rather limited probably due to price, forcing some locales that do separate it, such as my own, dump it in the landfill with the rest of the trash, a waste, literally.

There, maybe. Here, as noted, the value of removing from the wastestream, and thus the landfill, is such that if it doesn't get recycled, then it probably is sent to Oklahoma to be buried in their landfills, 'cause they won't let them do it at ours.

Hey...our regional government is successfully recycling leftover house paint, for cryin' out loud.

(And, ITSOZ? If an individual is caught placing their personal trash in the dumpster of a local business [and "caught" includes being identified with an addressed envelope in the trash so disposed] it is a $250.00 fine for the first offense ['theft of services'], increasing thereafter.)