Commonly Misused Words

[viscousmemories]

adverse and averse

From dictionary.com:

ad·verse (ad-vûrs, advûrs) adj.

1. Acting or serving to oppose; antagonistic: adverse criticism.
2. Contrary to one's interests or welfare; harmful or unfavorable: adverse circumstances.
3. Moving in an opposite or opposing direction: adverse currents.

a·verse (a-vûrs) adj.

Having a feeling of opposition, distaste, or aversion; strongly disinclined: investors who are averse to taking risks.

Here's an example of a person conflating these terms on another forum:

If sheriffs were not adverse to framing innocent people, We would have to remove it, not only from this sheriff, but from all sheriffs.

In this case it seems that 'averse' would have been a more accurate word choice.

[wade-w]

Probably the most commonly misused words I see are affect and effect. The difference is subtle, but very real.

From dictionary.com:


Usage Note: Affect and effect have no senses in common. As a verb affect is most commonly used in the sense of “to influence” (how smoking affects health). Effect means “to bring about or execute”: layoffs designed to effect savings. Thus the sentence These measures may affect savings could imply that the measures may reduce savings that have already been realized, whereas These measures may effect savings implies that the measures will cause new savings to come about.

[maddog]

"lie" and "lay"

Ugh.
#176

[viscousmemories]

Excellent choices, both of you. There's a third (psychiatric) use of 'affect' too (albeit pronounced differently from affect and effect as commonly used) -- as in "isolation of affect" -- which dictionary.com defines as: "the conscious subjective aspect of an emotion considered apart from bodily changes."

Maddog could you elaborate? I always mix those two up. :blush:

[seebs]

comprise.

To comprise is to be composed of. The word-sequence "comprised of" is just plain wrong. It means "being composed of of".

[viscousmemories]

Ah, but the language she is evolving...

Usage Note: The traditional rule states that the whole comprises the parts and the parts compose the whole. In strict usage: The Union comprises 50 states. Fifty states compose (or constitute or make up) the Union. Even though careful writers often maintain this distinction, comprise is increasingly used in place of compose, especially in the passive: The Union is comprised of 50 states. Our surveys show that opposition to this usage is abating. In the 1960s, 53 percent of the Usage Panel found this usage unacceptable; in 1996, only 35 percent objected.

-dictionary.com

[Beth]

When I write essays and reports and edit for my children, I have a very good grasp on correct grammar, in fact, I had, a couple of times, perfect test scores in state exams in grammar(language, language comprehension, reading comprehension, and so on...). In conversation, I often use my own beth-isms or words that that are used in my area in the context of my message in what I am trying to convey. When I am upset or too relaxed is when I normally fall into the yokel grammar in my posts.

[seebs]

Ah, but the language she is evolving...

I'm all for evolving language when it doesn't entirely reverse the sense of a word. :)

[Darren]

Ah, but the language she is evolving...

I'm all for evolving language when it doesn't entirely reverse the sense of a word. :)

But it will evolve whether you like it or not, and sometimes a word meaning one thing will end up meaning the opposite over time: so "blac" in Old English actually meant "white", while its Modern English derivative is "black". Language is in constant motion, like a river, and for all those who lean heavily on dictionaries, remember that spoken language preceeds written language, and each follows a different set of "rules" anyway. Everything we know as "correct" today will be "archaic" tomorrow.

[JoeP]

"lie" and "lay"

Ugh.

Lie and lay are misused differently between the US and the UK (and other British-English speaking countries). The common American usage of lay (as in "Lay down here"; intransitive present tense) sounds odd to British ears.

[JoeP]

Mute and moot (a mute point :argh: ) have been raised somewhere recently.

This country she is filled with non-native speakers of English so I'm becoming desensitised to misuses.

[Beth]

I have never seen any of these misuses, except for affect and effect and lay and lie. And lay and lie often have different accepted usages down here than it does in propper grammar.

[ceptimus]

Further and farther.

Advise and advice.

While and Whilst.

Principle and principal.

The list is practically endless.

[livius drusus]

Capitol and capital.

[viscousmemories]

Okay you people aren't teaching us anything here! You're supposed to be providing examples and explaining the usage problems. Obviously nobody who misuses the word regularly is gonna look it up him/herself. We must stop the madness here!

Which reminds me:

Your (not mine) and you're (you are)

You're thought a fool if your fly is open in front of the class.

[Ymir's blood]

While and Whilst.
What is the difference between 'whilst' and 'while?' Every dictionary I check has 'while' listed as the definition for 'whilst.'

Whilst at Onelook Dictionary (http://www.onelook.com/?w=whilst&ls=a)

[maddog]

"lie" and "lay"

Ugh.

Lie and lay are misused differently between the US and the UK (and other British-English speaking countries). The common American usage of lay (as in "Lay down here"; intransitive present tense) sounds odd to British ears.
Sounds odd to these (and plenty of other) American ears, too.

One of the things that bothers me a lot is the inability to understand when the objective case should be used. American kids have been called out so often for saying, "John and me went to the store," (or worse, "Me and John went to the store,") that they think the mistake is using "me" whenever you talk about yourself and another person. So, even when it would be correct to do so, they refrain from using "John and me." Thus, "My parents gave my husband and I a beautiful vacation for our honeymoon." NO, NO, NO!!! When you are the object of a preposition, you use "me." [ETA: in this situation, the preposition is the "understood" word "to": They gave [to] me . . ."] You wouldn't say, "they gave I a gift." You would say, "they gave me a gift." You keep the same case when it's more than one recipient: "they gave John and me a gift." You can tell also, because you would never say, "they gave we a gift." No, you would say, "they gave us a gift." Drives me insane. This one is so bad and so pervasive that it's even crept into "period" movies about England. The writers have got supposedly educated British aristocrats of the 19th c. saying this. :qeek: :argh:
#179

[Beth]

I get told no alot when it should be yes :P Is that a good example?

[maddog]

I get told no alot when it should be yes :P Is that a good example?
:P :D

Although, you've just done another one that is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me: "alot." Nope. That expression is two words: "a lot."

But then, I am a certified spelling and grammar Nazi. :gestapo: Oh, rats, now I'm going to get in trouble on the Prince Harry thread for wearing a Gestapo costume!

#180

[Beth]

"lie" and "lay"

Ugh.

Lie and lay are misused differently between the US and the UK (and other British-English speaking countries). The common American usage of lay (as in "Lay down here"; intransitive present tense) sounds odd to British ears.
Sounds odd to these (and plenty of other) American ears, too.

One of the things that bothers me a lot is the inability to understand when the objective case should be used. American kids have been called out so often for saying, "John and me went to the store," (or worse, "Me and John went to the store,") that they think the mistake is using "me" whenever you talk about yourself and another person. So, even when it would be correct to do so, they refrain from using "John and me." Thus, "My parents gave my husband and I a beautiful vacation for our honeymoon." NO, NO, NO!!! When you are the object of a preposition, you use "me." [ETA: in this situation, the preposition is the "understood" word "to": They gave [to] me . . ."] You wouldn't say, "they gave I a gift." You would say, "they gave me a gift." You keep the same case when it's more than one recipient: "they gave John and me a gift." You can tell also, because you would never say, "they gave we a gift." No, you would say, "they gave us a gift." Drives me insane. This one is so bad and so pervasive that it's even crept into "period" movies about England. The writers have got supposedly educated British aristocrats of the 19th c. saying this. :qeek: :argh:
#179Well, there are times that I use the common Me and the kids, or JIm and me, althought I normally use the correct pronoun. There are times that fitting in with people simply comes before perfect grammar.

As far as the incorrect useage of the pronoun I instead of the correct usage of the pronoun me, I was always taught that the more genteel usage of the word was the way you described as the incorrect use. It is incorrect, but in some areas, it is actually seen as the correct usage. -well, as long as one is not in school.;)

[Beth]

I get told no alot when it should be yes :P Is that a good example?
:P :D

Although, you've just done another one that is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me: "alot." Nope. That expression is two words: "a lot."

But then, I am a certified spelling and grammar Nazi. :gestapo: Oh, rats, now I'm going to get in trouble on the Prince Harry thread for wearing a Gestapo costume!

#180Hehe. Well alot is used rather a lot now. :P Come on! Relax a little, take a walk on the wild side and use some bad grammar! :luna:

[ceptimus]

While and Whilst.
What is the difference between 'whilst' and 'while?' Every dictionary I check has 'while' listed as the definition for 'whilst.'

Whilst at Onelook Dictionary (http://www.onelook.com/?w=whilst&ls=a)
You can see straight away that the words aren't equivalent as some substitutions of whilst for while grate horribly:

I visited California for a whilst.

I would say that, in modern usage, you can always get away with substituting while in place of whilst, but not vice-versa. I suppose whilst is becoming obsolete and archaic, but I still prefer to use it in the sense of two or more things happening at the same time:

Whilst I was composing this post I was also drinking a Coke.

[viscousmemories]

Thanks for the "me and I" bit, maddog. And for catching Beth on 'alot'. I was gonna have to do it if you didn't. That one bugs me alot, to. :P

Yes, you guessed it. Next up is:

to (I go to the store) and too (also: I like frogs too)

Now ahem! About that lie/lay thing...

[viscousmemories]

I suppose whilst is becoming obsolete and archaic, but I still prefer to use it in the sense of two or more things happening at the same time:

Whilst I was composing this post I was also drinking a Coke.
Well if it's any consolation I never saw Americans using 'whilst' until the advent of the Internet, so it may in fact be spreading globally even if dying out locally. :)

[ceptimus]

...grate horribly...

Great and grate.

[Ymir's blood]

While and Whilst.
What is the difference between 'whilst' and 'while?' Every dictionary I check has 'while' listed as the definition for 'whilst.'

Whilst at Onelook Dictionary (http://www.onelook.com/?w=whilst&ls=a)
You can see straight away that the words aren't equivalent as some substitutions of whilst for while grate horribly:

I visited California for a whilst.

I would say that, in modern usage, you can always get away with substituting while in place of whilst, but not vice-versa. I suppose whilst is becoming obsolete and archaic, but I still prefer to use it in the sense of two or more things happening at the same time:

Whilst I was composing this post I was also drinking a Coke.
I agree with how you use the word in the above. However it seems that your complaint is aesthetic rather than grammatical. The usuage in 'for a whilst' is correct even if it sounds strange.

[viscousmemories]

Great and grate.
Now wait just a minute, buster. This is the "commonly misused words" thread, not the "spot a homonym" thread. Do you really see people confusing 'great' and 'grate' with any frequency?

[Ymir's blood]

I suppose whilst is becoming obsolete and archaic, but I still prefer to use it in the sense of two or more things happening at the same time:

Whilst I was composing this post I was also drinking a Coke.
Well if it's any consolation I never saw Americans using 'whilst' until the advent of the Internet, so it may in fact be spreading globally even if dying out locally. :)
I use it a lot in writing but rarely in speaking. In my case, it probably came from reading older literature and a general affection for rare or archaic words.

[ceptimus]

Great and grate.
Now wait just a minute, buster. This is the "commonly misused words" thread, not the "spot a homonym" thread. Do you really see people confusing 'great' and 'grate' with any frequency?

A Google search for "cheese greater" returns 690 hits, only a few of which turn out to be gramatically correct. I suppose that's not a grate [sic] frequency. :P

[Ensign Steve]

Great and grate.
Now wait just a minute, buster. This is the "commonly misused words" thread, not the "spot a homonym" thread. Do you really see people confusing 'great' and 'grate' with any frequency?

I mix those up all the time when I'm speaking, but never when I'm writing! ;)

[ceptimus]

I use [whilst] a lot in writing but rarely in speaking. In my case, it probably came from reading older literature and a general affection for rare or archaic words.

I tend to do the same with 'whom'. Does anyone use 'whom' in speech? How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?

To be honest I don't use it that much even in writing. It 'sounds' pompous to me, even when written...

[viscousmemories]

I sound a lot more pompous in my posts than I really am. This is because there are so many really smart and ridiculously over-educated people in these forums that I bend over backward trying to hide the fact that I'm really an ignorant hillbilly who dropped out of junior high school. I don't do a very good job, though. :blush:

[livius drusus]

Does anyone use 'whom' in speech? I do.
How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?
I don't. I also say "This is she" when people call asking for me. :giggle:

[LadyShea]

Wow, you grammar Nazis are weird ;). I don't care too much which words people use as long as the meaning is clear.

I do care about bugging the shit outta others though (to an extent), so appreciate the explanations, especaiily affect/effect since I never understood the difference.


I tend to sometimes use slang in writing that I don't use whilst speaking, such as "outta" in the above sentence and "prolly" just because it amuses me. Scratch that, I started using prolly because I am lazy and consistently mistyped probably.

[LadyShea]

How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?
I don't. I also say "This is she" when people call asking for me. :giggle:

I used to do that because I know it is correct, but it bugged me. Now I say "This is Brandi" or "This is Mrs. Wittman" or whatever they used.

[viscousmemories]

I'm a grammar nazi 'cause I'm the youngest of 10 kids, and my siblings were ruthless critics. Misuse a word and be laughed outta the room. No exceptions.

I've lightened up a lot in the last year, though. Now I use gotta, wanna, gonna, hafta, prolly, and various other non-words that probably drive a lot of anal-retentives nuts. On the flip side there are those serious philosophical types over at IIDB and elsewhere who never even use contractions when they write. It's quite odd, really.

"I would like to go to that store because I enjoy buying a specific product that they have only at that particular store. Would you not also prefer that store if they carried a product you prefer?" :yuck:

No offense, of course, to anyone who writes that way. I am all about language precision generally, it's just that sometimes it comes across sounding very uptight. I know it's all relative, though, and that some people think I'm one of those people. :)

[LadyShea]

I'm a grammar nazi 'cause I'm the youngest of 10 kids, and my siblings were ruthless critics. Misuse a word and be laughed outta the room. No exceptions.

I've lightened up a lot in the last year, though. Now I use gotta, wanna, gonna, hafta, prolly, and various other non-words that probably drive a lot of anal-retentives nuts. On the flip side there are those serious philosophical types over at IIDB and elsewhere who never even use contractions when they write. It's quite odd, really.

"I would like to go to that store because I enjoy buying a specific product that they have only at that particular store. Would you not also prefer that store if they carried a product you prefer?" :yuck:


:yuck: is right!

I did think of something I can't stand though. People who use the passive voice in certain situations (usually exclusively when writing) because they think it sounds more formal or intelligent or something. It truly drives me nuts and I just wanna scream "Type like you talk! You would not talk like that if we were having a conversation!"

[livius drusus]

There's an Italian expression you might like, Shea, which translates to "Talk like you eat." :D

[viscousmemories]

:yuck: is right!

I did think of something I can't stand though. People who use the passive voice in certain situations (usually exclusively when writing) because they think it sounds more formal or intelligent or something. It truly drives me nuts and I just wanna scream "Type like you talk! You would not talk like that if we were having a conversation!"
Ah, but one must consider the impact on his image when one is articulating the specific pleasure he derives from watching the sporting event of his preference. Think of the damage to his ego that might result, should he be thought a blathering fanatic for his enthusiastic interests!

[LadyShea]

Ah, but one must consider the impact on his image when one is articulating the specific pleasure he derives from watching the sporting event of his preference. Think of the damage to his ego that might result, should he be thought a blathering fanatic for his enthusiastic interests!

Gah! :runaway:

I also hate when people completely obfuscate their meaning trying to use large words, again in an effort to come across as more formal or intelligent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a "big word" if that is, in fact, the most precise one to use. I guess gratuitous use for no apparent reason is what bugs me.

Oh and speaking of the UK, I noted a particular dialect (no idea where from, sorry) that switches around verbs "I were going to the store" and "We was going to the store". Seemed pretty consistent, anybody know the dialect and region of origin?

[livius drusus]

On the guys in The Full Monty did that, but I don't know if that's really a Sheffield (where the movie was set) thing or artistic license.

[Dingfod]

I hate it when they're using their "there, they're, and their" wrongly.

It is their car.

They're driving their car.

They're driving their car there.

~~~~~

break and brake

Since I frequent a few motorcycle and automotive sites, I see this one far too many times. People say things like "My breaks weren't stopping very good so I adjusted them until my wrench braked." Arrrrgh! My hart akes fur dem.

Break - To cause to separate into pieces suddenly or violently; to smash; or the act of making something broken.

Brake - To slow something down; or the device used to slow something down.

~~~~~~

I was thinking about adding in it's and its, but I have trouble getting that right myself.

[ceptimus]

How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?
I don't. I also say "This is she" when people call asking for me. :giggle:

I used to do that because I know it is correct, but it bugged me. Now I say "This is Brandi" or "This is Mrs. Wittman" or whatever they used.

I say "Speaking" or sometimes "Yeah - that's me."

I guess this is one of the reasons I've never been invited to a garden party at Buckingham Palace.

[Beth]

I'm a grammar nazi 'cause I'm the youngest of 10 kids, and my siblings were ruthless critics. Misuse a word and be laughed outta the room. No exceptions.

I've lightened up a lot in the last year, though. Now I use gotta, wanna, gonna, hafta, prolly, and various other non-words that probably drive a lot of anal-retentives nuts. On the flip side there are those serious philosophical types over at IIDB and elsewhere who never even use contractions when they write. It's quite odd, really.

"I would like to go to that store because I enjoy buying a specific product that they have only at that particular store. Would you not also prefer that store if they carried a product you prefer?" :yuck:


:yuck: is right!

I did think of something I can't stand though. People who use the passive voice in certain situations (usually exclusively when writing) because they think it sounds more formal or intelligent or something. It truly drives me nuts and I just wanna scream "Type like you talk! You would not talk like that if we were having a conversation!"
I use a passive voice in many of my arguments in real life. I have become attacked so much in certain things that I learned that if I argue passively, I am not attached and that am not attacked as often. It translates into some debates online. I automaticly detach and use a passive tone sometimes.

There are times that I also use no contractions. I do not speak with contractions much in real life. People always automatically assume intelligence from it. I often use them online just to shorten my typing or to sound nicer. Ah, I just noticed that I had not used any.

I mainly use contractions in real life when I want to sound dumbed down or am being friendly. In my home, I am most relaxed, so I will normally not use uppity airs with my immediate family. -I say uppity, but it is not done intentionally.

[livius drusus]

I guess this is one of the reasons I've never been invited to a garden party at Buckingham Palace.

A dearth of swastika arm bands, that's your problem.

[Darren]

...grate horribly...

Great and grate.

Bank, bank and bank. I kept diving off buildings, throwing my money in ariel curves and ruining my best suit sitting in rivers waiting for the manager until I realised the huge difference between bank, bank and bank. Thank goodness for grammar and orthography! :D

All you orthography and grammar nuts are trapped in a space-time bubble. :wink: Have a quick look at the history of English to see why!

Also, a prize for anyone who can tell me what a ghoti is!

[Ymir's blood]

I use [whilst] a lot in writing but rarely in speaking. In my case, it probably came from reading older literature and a general affection for rare or archaic words.

I tend to do the same with 'whom'. Does anyone use 'whom' in speech? How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?

To be honest I don't use it that much even in writing. It 'sounds' pompous to me, even when written...
I've used it as 'to whom' in writing but can't remember using it in speech.

This link (http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/errors/who.html) goes into the difference, btw.

[Ymir's blood]

How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?
I don't. I also say "This is she" when people call asking for me. :giggle:

I used to do that because I know it is correct, but it bugged me. Now I say "This is Brandi" or "This is Mrs. Wittman" or whatever they used.
I say, "This is he." :shrug:

[LadyShea]

My poor hubby is a brilliant guy, but can't for the life of him use "You're" and "They're" correctly. He just accepts this flaw and has me proofread anything others might read.

Beth, why don't you use contractions? Just something you were not brought up with or did you use a lot of fromal language in your schooling?

That reminds me, I noticed recently that "You're not, they're not, we're not" and "You aren't, they aren't, we aren't" mean exactly the same thing. Is one considered more correct than the other?

[viscousmemories]

All you orthography and grammar nuts are trapped in a space-time bubble. Have a quick look at the history of English to see why!
Humans evolve too, doesn't mean some aren't flawed! :D

Also, a prize for anyone who can tell me what a ghoti is!
An Indian mafia don?

[LadyShea]

How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?
I don't. I also say "This is she" when people call asking for me. :giggle:

I used to do that because I know it is correct, but it bugged me. Now I say "This is Brandi" or "This is Mrs. Wittman" or whatever they used.
I say, "This is he." :shrug:

You are using it correctly. Most people say "This is her/him", and many often consider the correct usage to sound pompous for some reason. It bugged me because I work directly with the public and always have, and found people would get an immediate attitude when I answered the phone that way. I don't wish to reduce myself to something I know is incorrect just so my customers feel comfortable, but their comfort is very important, so I started using my name.

[Ensign Steve]

Does anyone use 'whom' in speech? I do.
How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?
I don't. I also say "This is she" when people call asking for me. :giggle:

I do both, as well.

Darren: A ghoti is a fish. What do I win?

GH=F as in 'enough.'
O=I (short i sound) as in 'women.'
TI=SH as in 'function.'
GH-O-TI
F-I-SH
Yay!

[Beth]

My poor hubby is a brilliant guy, but can't for the life of him use "You're" and "They're" correctly. He just accepts this flaw and has me proofread anything others might read.

Beth, why don't you use contractions? Just something you were not brought up with or did you use a lot of fromal language in your schooling?


The most common contractions that I use are "don't", "won't", and "it's". When I did attend a public school, I was in the more advanced English. My teachers often discouraged the usage of contractions. I also tend to think before I speak, well, not always, but if I am trying to convey something, I will speak more deliberately ( I have a soft voice) and more slowly, sometimes pausing so that I can think of what exactly I am trying to express. When I am more relaxed and talk faster, I will use contractions more. I also use "ain't" to deliberately sound cute.

[Beth]

Anyway, I thought it was interesting VM brought this up. Most of my posts in here are not so uppity, but in another forum, someone sent me a PM for being hostile. I could not find and bit of hostility in what I had written. I was kinda stunned. Then after reading VM's words and rereading my posts, I noticed that my posts did sound formal and were contraction free and I gather that translated into some sort of hostility. Urk. It was never an intentional thing. I'ma gonna need to start a writin' less like that, Isa thinks.

[ceptimus]

I noted a particular dialect (no idea where from, sorry) that switches around verbs "I were going to the store" and "We was going to the store". Seemed pretty consistent, anybody know the dialect and region of origin?

I lived in an industrial area in the centre of England, when I was a kid. It was known as 'The Black Country' on account of the smoke and grime. Anyway, that area has a strong regional dialect - one I still use when talking to my parents and childhood friends. We use constructions a bit like the ones you refer to, and also use 'am' in place of 'are' though only in abbreviated form:

Yoam agooin down the shops? (You am going to the shops? i.e. Are you going to the shops?)

Weem gooin anyroad. (We am going anyway. i.e. We shall go whether you do or not.)

Theym norra gooin though. (They am not going though. i.e. They won't be coming with us, however.)

[LadyShea]

Woah Cept! That is a strong dialect, I would probably be unable to understand much of what was said in a conversation between natives. Theym norra gooin though I was able to decipher from reading, but would take me a second to register if it was spoken with any kind of speed.

I had a difficult time understanding those from Glasgow. Though my friends spoke slowly and clearly to me, I couldn't understand when they spoke to each other.

[LadyShea]

Anyway, I thought it was interesting VM brought this up. Most of my posts in here are not so uppity, but in another forum, someone sent me a PM for being hostile. I could not find and bit of hostility in what I had written. I was kinda stunned. Then after reading VM's words and rereading my posts, I noticed that my posts did sound formal and were contraction free and I gather that translated into some sort of hostility. Urk. It was never an intentional thing. I'ma gonna need to start a writin' less like that, Isa thinks.


Hmmm, maybe it seems cold which some people read as hostility or anger. I am kinda like that. If I am yelling and calling names I am probably agitated or irritated but not overly or lastingly angry. When I am super seriously pissed, I go all cold and correct.

[ceptimus]

There's information on the Black Country Dialect here from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blackcountry/features/2002/12/accents/black_country_dialect.shtml)

As usual when BBC types report on regional matters, they've not got it quite right, but it is a reasonable introduction for 'foreigners'.

[JoeP]

How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?
I don't. I also say "This is she" when people call asking for me. :giggle:

I used to do that because I know it is correct, but it bugged me. Now I say "This is Brandi" or "This is Mrs. Wittman" or whatever they used.

I say "Speaking" or sometimes "Yeah - that's me."

I guess this is one of the reasons I've never been invited to a garden party at Buckingham Palace.
You haven't missed much.

[JoeP]

...grate horribly...

Great and grate.

Bank, bank and bank. I kept diving off buildings, throwing my money in ariel curves and ruining my best suit sitting in rivers waiting for the manager until I realised the huge difference between bank, bank and bank. Thank goodness for grammar and orthography! :D

All you orthography and grammar nuts are trapped in a space-time bubble. :wink: Have a quick look at the history of English to see why!

Also, a prize for anyone who can tell me what a ghoti is!
Ariel curves?

I knew the ghoti fish as well, but the Ensign got there first.

[viscousmemories]

Ariel curves?
Yep, you heard the man.

[JoeP]

I'm much more interested in examples like moot/mute and affect/effect, which are clearly words pronounced differently, than principle/principal (which is nothing more than a confusion of spelling) and great/grate, you're/your etc, which are largely just spelling errors.

I'm vaguely annoyed, but not much, by the omission of 'd's in phrases like ice tea (it's not tea made using ice, it's iced tea!). But this too is a symptom of writing things the way they sound: not much different from a spelling mistake.

[JoeP]

Ariel curves?
Yep, you heard the man.
Is it ok to have the hots for a cartoon half-fish girl, still basically a child? :yowza:

[viscousmemories]

Is it ok to have the hots for a cartoon half-fish girl, still basically a child? :yowza:
As long as you don't admit it in public, I think you're okay.

[Beth]

Ariel curves?
Yep, you heard the man.
Is it ok to have the hots for a cartoon half-fish girl, still basically a child? :yowza:
She looks to be over 16; I saw the movie.;)

[wade-w]

It truly drives me nuts and I just wanna scream "Type like you talk! You would not talk like that if we were having a conversation!"


My father has been a professional writer and editor since he was in high school, and he had a column in a newspaper at 18. He was a legend in the wire services, and became the youngest bureau chief in UPI history at the age of 20. He once gave me this exact advice. As he put it: "Write like you talk."

As for the phone thing, I use "This is he" or "Speaking". I never knew that some consider it pompous.

[wade-w]

I also hate when people completely obfuscate their meaning trying to use large words, again in an effort to come across as more formal or intelligent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a "big word" if that is, in fact, the most precise one to use. I guess gratuitous use for no apparent reason is what bugs me.


This is another excellent point. What's amusing about it, to me, is that it almost always backfires.

[LadyShea]

My father has been a professional writer and editor since he was in high school, and he had a column in a newspaper at 18. He was a legend in the wire services, and became the youngest bureau chief in UPI history at the age of 20. He once gave me this exact advice. As he put it: "Write like you talk."

Wow, glad to know I am in good company with my feeling on the issue!

As for the phone thing, I use "This is he" or "Speaking". I never knew that some consider it pompous.

Yeah well, my experience may be less than normal. I truly work with the lowest end of the public.

[Blake]

My bugaboo, which I've posted about here and on at least one other board, is "reign" for "rein." Yes, they're homonyms, but we're talking about written communication here. You can't "seize the reigns," there are no "reigns of power," etc. etc.

[viscousmemories]

My bugaboo, which I've posted about here and on at least one other board, is "reign" for "rein." Yes, they're homonyms, but we're talking about written communication here. You can't "seize the reigns," there are no "reigns of power," etc. etc.
Oh, oops.

I knew horses had reins and that monarchs reign over their kingdoms, but probably because of the latter I did think one seized the reigns of power. :blush:

[maddog]

I mix those [i.e., 'great' and 'grate'] up all the time when I'm speaking, but never when I'm writing! ;)
:giggles: :haha:
#181

[maddog]

Does anyone use 'whom' in speech? I do.
How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?
I don't. I also say "This is she" when people call asking for me. :giggle:
Ditto.
#182

[maddog]

stupid double post. Oops!#183

[maddog]

. . .
Also, a prize for anyone who can tell me what a ghoti is!
An Indian mafia don? HAHAHAHA!!!!

Darren: "ghoti" is "fish"! I know ALL the third grade jokes! (Well, alot :D of them, anyway!)

ETA: Ooh, I see I wasn't first in line with the answer. Carry on!
#184

[Dingfod]

Joe, this guy wants a word with you...
http://movie-cast.com/icet.jpg

If I wrote like I talked there would be a lot more... uh... pauses... and uh... some occasional s-s-s-stuttering as I fumble about seeking the proper words. I am absolutely certain that I sound more intelligent in writing than in person (and that ain't saying much). I abuse the hell out of contractions, apostrophes run in terror when my mouth opens (the words, they burns's). I actually try to imitate how I'd like to talk when I write rather than how I actually talk, assisted by liberally sprinkling everything with lots and lots of punctuation like salt on fish and chips, very often ending up where it should not be. And don't even ask me about my dangling participles.

[Dingfod]

. . .
Also, a prize for anyone who can tell me what a ghoti is!
"ghoti" is "fish"! I know ALL the third grade jokes! (Well, alot :D of them, anyway!)
#183Goll,... you're a freakin' idiot - Napolean Dynamite. :wink:

[maddog]

Another pair of commonly misused words is "that" and "which." I confess that this is one which I don't have nailed down myself, grammar Nazi that I otherwise am.

One of my absolute pet peeves is "due to." Most people don't know how to use this correctly. "The office is closed due to a power outage," is wrong. The correct construction there would be to say, "because of." "Due to" is equivalent to "attributable to." If you can substitute "attributable to," then the construction is correct. If you can't, then it's not. The style experts advise, however, "OMIT this phrase from your vocabulary!!!"

And I see this one all over the place:
"tenets" are "principles"
"tenants" are people who rent apartments


#185

[Godless Wonder]

How do you manage to do this [use "whom" verbally] without sounding pompous?

To whom the fuck it may concern:

Always follow "whom" by "the fuck" if you wish to avoid sounding pompous.

[JoeP]

Joe, this guy wants a word with you...
http://movie-cast.com/icet.jpg

If I wrote like I talked there would be a lot more... uh... pauses... and uh... some occasional s-s-s-stuttering as I fumble about seeking the proper words. I am absolutely certain that I sound more intelligent in writing than in person (and that ain't saying much). I abuse the hell out of contractions, apostrophes run in terror when my mouth opens (the words, they burns's). I actually try to imitate how I'd like to talk when I write rather than how I actually talk, assisted by liberally sprinkling everything with lots and lots of punctuation like salt on fish and chips, very often ending up where it should not be. And don't even ask me about my dangling participles.
No, Warren, we aren't going to ask about your dangly parts. Although the grammar-cop :livcop: smilie dragon does have a fetish for relevant smilies...

Say hi to ice-t for me.

[JoeP]

Ariel curves?
Yep, you heard the man.
Is it ok to have the hots for a cartoon half-fish girl, still basically a child? :yowza:
She looks to be over 16; I saw the movie.;)
But I saw the movie too, and her dad looks scary.

[xouper]

Mute and moot ...
Joey: "It's a moo point."
Monica: "What the heck is a moo point?"
Joey: "It's like the opinion of a cow, it doesn't matter."

[xouper]

metaphysician (http://www.xoup.net/peeves/metaphysician.php)


near miss (http://www.xoup.net/peeves/nearmiss.php)

[Beth]

Ariel curves?
Yep, you heard the man.
Is it ok to have the hots for a cartoon half-fish girl, still basically a child? :yowza:
She looks to be over 16; I saw the movie.;)
But I saw the movie too, and her dad looks scary.
Aw, Tritan's a man. A little wink, a little flattery, and a little sway of the hips and he would be putty. Nope. Not scary at all to me.;)

[viscousmemories]

metaphysician (http://www.xoup.net/peeves/metaphysician.php)

near miss (http://www.xoup.net/peeves/nearmiss.php)
Cool stuff, xouper.

I've never been a newspaper reader, but I guess the NY Times has/had a column by William Safire called "On Language" wherein he tackles/ed common usage myths, etymologies, etc. I have a book called What's the Good Word, which is a compliation of a bunch of these columns. It's really cool.

[Darren]

Does anyone use 'whom' in speech? I do.
How do you manage to do this without sounding pompous?
I don't. I also say "This is she" when people call asking for me. :giggle:

I do both, as well.

Darren: A ghoti is a fish. What do I win?

GH=F as in 'enough.'
O=I (short i sound) as in 'women.'
TI=SH as in 'function.'
GH-O-TI
F-I-SH
Yay!

The opportunity to show off!

[Ensign Steve]

Darren: A ghoti is a fish. What do I win?

GH=F as in 'enough.'
O=I (short i sound) as in 'women.'
TI=SH as in 'function.'
GH-O-TI
F-I-SH
Yay!

The opportunity to show off!

Wow, you sure know how to please a girl!

Yay me! :cheer: :woohoo:

[maddog]

One of the ones they pounded into our heads when I was in school was the confusion of "borrow" and "lend."
Correct: "Lend me a pencil."
Incorrect: "Borrow me a pencil."

Has anyone besides me noticed that the "borrow/lend" problem is no longer a problem? Nobody but nobody seems to say "lend" anymore. Everyone seems to say "loan." i.e., "loan me a pencil." For some reason this grates on my ears. I suppose I have a preference for "loan" as a noun. If you borrow money from someone (verb), and they agree to lend it to you (verb), then you have taken out a loan (noun). Does this bother anyone else?

The distinctions between "irony" and "satire" are somewhat fuzzy to me. I THINK I have the idea that something is "ironic" when it contains the opposite of itself, or is internally contradictory, or juxtaposes opposite things. My impression of "satiric" is more of a biting, exaggerated kind of humor, but without the sense of opposition that I have of "ironic."#189

[viscousmemories]

I don't remember ever hearing "borrow me _____".

Loan sounds naturaller to me than lend, though your reasoning is sensistic.

As I understand it satire is a parody (which makes me realize I probably don't know what either really means) and irony is when something is laughably contrarian. I think.

[Darren]

]...grate horribly...

Great and grate.

Bank, bank and bank. I kept diving off buildings, throwing my money in ariel curves and ruining my best suit sitting in rivers waiting for the manager until I realised the huge difference between bank, bank and bank. Thank goodness for grammar and orthography! :D

All you orthography and grammar nuts are trapped in a space-time bubble. :wink: Have a quick look at the history of English to see why!

Also, a prize for anyone who can tell me what a ghoti is!
Ariel curves?[/I]

I knew the ghoti fish as well, but the Ensign got there first.

:blush: :blush: :blush:

So I forgot the majuscule for the name "Ariel". Naturally, I was referring to a graceful aerial manoeuvre popularized by that fairy (sorry that should be faerie). You knew that, surely? :bag:

[viscousmemories]

:blush: :blush: :blush:

So I forgot the majuscule for the name "Ariel". Naturally, I was referring to a graceful aerial manoeuvre popularized by that fairy (sorry that should be faerie). You knew that, surely? :bag:
Hmm... well if it means what I think it means, it should be mermaid. :)

[Darren]

:blush: :blush: :blush:

So I forgot the majuscule for the name "Ariel". Naturally, I was referring to a graceful aerial manoeuvre popularized by that fairy (sorry that should be faerie). You knew that, surely? :bag:
Hmm... well if it means what I think it means, it should be mermaid. :)

Unless there's some hidden satire (or irony) here, Ariel was most definitely both male and aerial.

[viscousmemories]

Unless there's some hidden satire (or irony) here, Ariel was most definitely both male and aerial.
Ohhh... I see, you're gettin' all literary. I was referring to the Ariel I posted a picture of on the previous page, who, while young, is all mermaid. Sorry for the confusion.

[ceptimus]

Ariel always hung around with Umbriel, for some unknown reason.

For, that sad moment, when the Sylphs withdrew,
And Ariel weeping from Belinda flew,
Umbriel, a dusky, melancholy Sprite,
As ever sully'd the fair Face of Light,
Down to the Central Earth, his proper Scene,
Repair'd to search the gloomy Cave of Spleen.

From The Rape of the Lock by Alexander Pope.

Two of Uranus' moons are named Ariel and Umbriel. Belinda is another one.

[Darren]

Unless there's some hidden satire (or irony) here, Ariel was most definitely both male and aerial.
Ohhh... I see, you're gettin' all literary. I was referring to the Ariel I posted a picture of on the previous page, who, while young, is all mermaid. Sorry for the confusion.

Well I had to wriggle out of it somehow. :D

[Ensign Steve]

Ariel always hung around with Umbriel, for some unknown reason.

For, that sad moment, when the Sylphs withdrew,
And Ariel weeping from Belinda flew,
Umbriel, a dusky, melancholy Sprite,
As ever sully'd the fair Face of Light,
Down to the Central Earth, his proper Scene,
Repair'd to search the gloomy Cave of Spleen.

From The Rape of the Lock by Alexander Pope.

Two of Uranus' moons are named Ariel and Umbriel. Belinda is another one.

I was not aware of that. The mermaid on Futurama was named Umbriel, and now I know why. vm: did you know she was voiced by Parker Posey? ;)

[Dingfod]

I did not even know there was a mermaid on Futurama. Jeez, make me buy the DVDs.

[Ensign Steve]

I did not even know there was a mermaid on Futurama. Jeez, make me buy the DVDs.

It's the episode where they go under the sea and discover the lost city of Atlanta. Sorry I can't help you with the title or the season. Well, I could, but I'm lazy.

Fun Futurama Trivia: In a later episode, where Leela meets Hank Aaron's ancestor and he plays for the Braves, there is a trident on his jersey instead of an Indian face, on accounta Atlanta being underwater and all. Neat!

[viscousmemories]

vm: did you know she was voiced by Parker Posey? ;)
Oh wow, I had no idea! Huh, so it wasn't just the fins that turned me on.

[maddog]

"lead" and "led"
Nobody but nobody seems to remember that "lead," as an element (Pb) or the graphite in a pencil, is NOT the same, and is NOT SPELLED the same as the past tense of "to lead" (opposite of "to follow").
#203

[Adora]

"Affect" and "effect". I still don't fucking know which is when, since there seems to be one law for English, and then one law for Americanese.

[ceptimus]

Nah. It's the same rule for everyone. It's just that some people aren't effective at using the rule, or maybe it's just an affectation on their part.

[ceptimus]

Double post.

[Shake]

Oh man, I'd better get ready for this one:

/me laces up his running shoes

inconceivable

You keep using that word. I do no' think it means what you think it does.

[maddog]

"flout" and "flaunt"

"flout" is to defy
"flaunt" is to show off ostentatiously

One who egregiously violates the law "flouts" the law; he/she does not "flaunt" the law, which would be a great pic if you could do it.

Oh man, I'd better get ready for this one:

* Shake laces up his running shoes


inconceivable

You keep using that word. I do no' think it means what you think it does.
I don't get it, Shake. Can you 'splain?
#223

[Ymir's blood]

Oh man, I'd better get ready for this one:

* Shake laces up his running shoes


inconceivable

You keep using that word. I do no' think it means what you think it does.
I don't get it, Shake. Can you 'splain?
#223
Oh me me me! :mememe:

It's a line from The Princess Bride.

[Ensign Steve]

Oh I remember the other one my mom says that drives me crazy. She says 'in a sense' instead of 'in essence.' Deanna Troi says it too. *gag!*

I read an entire chapter of my job book where the author haphazardly used 'effect' and 'affect' interchangeably. Today my supervisor asked me if I had any problems with the material. When I pointed it out, he said, "oh, you're one of those?" ugh!

[Rosencrantz]

The one that makes my teeth ache is "lose" and "loose." Usually the latter in place of the former, as in "I think I will loose the game" or even worse, "I am a looser."

I find it helps to treat "affect" as a verb and "effect" as a noun. Yes, "effect" can be a verb too, but in most cases you affect something, and that is an effect.

Here's another one: "alternative" and "alternate." An alternate is usually the other one in a group of two where you switch off, as can be seen when used as a verb: "I alternate routes when driving to work; that's my alternate route." I've often heard "I have an alternate lifestyle," which is amusing because it implies the speaker switches back and forth.

"Imply" and "infer," another nice set. "The message is implied" means that whoever wrote the message put additional meaning in it. "The message is inferred" means that the reader puts additional meaning into it.

Ever since I read all the Nero Wolfe books by Rex Stout, I have avoided "contact" as a verb, preferring "make contact" instead. (Nero Wolf is an eccentric American private investigator from the '40s-'60s who often refuses clients for reasons like this.) If I remember correctly, he became furious and burned a dictionary in one story because it authorized this aberration.

I dislike adjectives used as adverbs, too, like "he runs quick." He runs quickly. We must endeavor to think differently. I also say "I am well" rather than "I am good," though I don't know what rule that is exactly. :)

I smile whenever I go grocery shopping because the store I favor has a sign that says "Ten items or fewer." Less refers to unquantifiable amounts, like "less water" or "less work." Fewer is when there is a numerical discrepancy, as in "fewer water bottles" or "fewer tasks."

That's all I can think of right now, but I'm enjoying the others that all of you have so amusingly addressed.

[Ensign Steve]

I've often heard "I have an alternate lifestyle," which is amusing because it implies the speaker switches back and forth.

I like it! :twisted:

Ever since I read all the Nero Wolfe books by Rex Stout, I have avoided "contact" as a verb, preferring "make contact" instead. (Nero Wolf is an eccentric American private investigator from the '40s-'60s who often refuses clients for reasons like this.) If I remember correctly, he became furious and burned a dictionary in one story because it authorized this aberration.

Ooooh, I have never heard of that, but now that you point it out, I will endeavor to make it one of my peeves. In a similar vein, I still can't let go of the archaic difference between 'drapes' (verb) and 'draperies' (noun). As in, "He drapes the draperies in front of the window." I watch a lot of home decorating shows and I will base my entire opinion of a show on whether they say 'drapes' or 'draperies' when referring to the window dressing.

I dislike adjectives used as adverbs, too, like "I'm good" or "He runs quick." I am well, and he runs quickly. We must endeavor to think differently.

Ugh, you remember that Apple ad campaign that implored us to "think different"? I wanted to puke every time. I learned in junior high that southerners have it correct in saying "I surely will" where northerners say "I sure will."

:welcome4: to the board, btw. :)

Elsinore is close to Oceanside, non?

[ceptimus]

All nouns can be verbed. Verbs can also be used as nouns in a writing.

All usefully adverbs can be nice adjectivised and vice-versa.

It is only by the daring use of expressions of the above form that the language can advance!

[Ensign Steve]

I can't tell if you're kidding. :chin:

All nouns can be verbed. Verbs can also be used as nouns in a writing.

In that example, 'writing' is a participle, which is quite correctly used as a noun. Participles can also be used as adjectives. :wink:

All usefully adverbs can be nice adjectivised and vice-versa.

If you are going to verb your nouns, why didn't you just say 'adjectived' instead of 'adjectivised'?

It is only by the daring use of expressions of the above form that the language can advance!

"Verbing weirds language." -- Calvin, of Calvin and Hobbes.

[livius drusus]

Incorrect use of imply and infer sets my teeth on edge too, Rosencrantz, and Nero Wolfe is one of my favorite characters: he's rich, anal, and a gourmet chef. What's not to love?

:welcome2:

P.S. - Don't listen to cep. He's just jealous.

[Rosencrantz]

In a similar vein, I still can't let go of the archaic difference between 'drapes' (verb) and 'draperies' (noun). As in, "He drapes the draperies in front of the window." I watch a lot of home decorating shows and I will base my entire opinion of a show on whether they say 'drapes' or 'draperies' when referring to the window dressing.
I love it. I find I have no choice but to join you in that peeve.

Elsinore is close to Oceanside, non?
I wish. I'm closer to Sacramento, actually.

All nouns can be verbed. Verbs can also be used as nouns in a writing.
"Verbing weirds language." Edited to add: Aw, man, Ensign Steve beat me to it.

I thought of some more.

"To" for "too." It's "I'm going to the store" and "I'm going, too."

I refuse to use "they" and "their" as singular pronouns. I use "he" and "him" and "she" and "her" when I know the sex of the subject, "he" and "him" when I don't, I switch back and forth with hypotheticals, and I often find a way to make the topic plural, as in "How often should people wash their towels?" instead of "How often should a person wash his towels?"

Hey, there's another set, "sex" and "gender." Words have gender. People have sex. (Ba-dump bump!)

"Then" and "Than." I see that occasionally.

And I'll only sing this one more time: "Oh, if it's supposed to be a possessive, it's just I-T-S, but if it's supposed to be a contraction then it's I-T-apostrophe-S. Scalawag."

[Ensign Steve]

I wish. I'm closer to Sacramento, actually.

My bad. I probably had you mixed up with Escondido. I'm from Los Angeles area, and my husband still lives in Oceanside, so I get a little excited when I see that ,CA in people's locations.

I refuse to use "they" and "their" as singular pronouns. I use "he" and "him" and "she" and "her" when I know the sex of the subject, "he" and "him" when I don't, I switch back and forth with hypotheticals, and I often find a way to make the topic plural, as in "How often should people wash their towels?" instead of "How often should a person wash his towels?"

I use 'one' a lot, even if it sounds pretentious. I'll use 'he' in place of 'they' but I'll use 'one' in place of 'you.' Who am I to tell you what you do? But I can say what one does, ya know?

[Rosencrantz]

Nero Wolfe is one of my favorite characters: he's rich, anal, and a gourmet chef. What's not to love?
Brilliant, too. Of course, Archie's so much fun it's hard to choose between them. (I highly recommend that series to anyone who's reading this. Many stories were adapted surprisingly well for A&E and can still be seen on the Biography channel for very little investment of time or money.)

I use 'one' a lot, even if it sounds pretentious. I'll use 'he' in place of 'they' but I'll use 'one' in place of 'you.' Who am I to tell you what you do? But I can say what one does, ya know?
One must concur.

Actually, though, "you" works surprisingly well sometimes. I often find that when I'm struggling to write something where I want to refer to a single person I don't know with a pronoun, it's often instructional, and second person is great for that. It's also extremely cool that it can double as plural too, though I also admire the South for spreading "you all" for that.

[maddog]

Elsinore is close to Oceanside, non?
I wish. I'm closer to Sacramento, actually.
My bad. I probably had you mixed up with Escondido. I'm from Los Angeles area, and my husband still lives in Oceanside, so I get a little excited when I see that ,CA in people's locations.
Nah, Steve, you're remembering Lake Elsinore, which is inland So Cal, in western Riverside County, north of Temecula on Rte 15. There's a highway that goes down to Oceanside not far from there.
#226

[Ensign Steve]

Oh, md, what would I do without you? You are so correct. I remember now because we were driving to San Diego and everybody was really fucked up except Dorian, cuz he was driving and the car broke down when we were at Lake Elsinore and he was so pissed off! LOL thanks, babe.

[ceptimus]

I goofed on the adverb / adjective thing. I was trying to kid, but I was a bit drunk. :drunk3:

Is 'blond / blonde' the only English word that takes different spellings when applied to the different sexes?

How does the possessive apostrophe work when applied to a group of people, or shouldn't we even try? The car belongs to them. It's their car. The car is theirs. Should that last sentence have an apostrophe, or is theirs like his and hers and doesn't need one?

[livius drusus]

theirs like his and hers and doesn't need one

:yup:

[Ensign Steve]

And its, ours and yours.

Blond and blonde? I thought blond was for beer, and blonde was for hair. :tapbeer: :cheers: