FF Reading Group

[livius drusus]

I thought NietzscheCat's idea of an FF reading group deserved its own thread so I'm just going to summarize some of the suggestions from the other thread and see what develops.

Ideas we've got so far:
create a subforum with multiple concurrent threads discussing different books/short stories/essays/poems.
make a sign-up sheet/usergroup so people could easily contact each other for further discussion
schedule chat sessions
use e-books for easier text access and distribution
buy or borrow hard copies for easier reading

Reading suggestions:
Voltaire, A Treatise on Toleration
Gutenberg Project classics
Letters to Penthouse XXI: When Wild Meets Raunchy*
anything vm owns but hasn't gotten around to reading yet*

My random, barely-crafted thoughts follow. I really like the idea of starting off with something manageable like the Voltaire wade recommended or an Edgar Allan Poe story or a poem. We could create public usergroups that people add themselves to at will in order to post on the threads; not to be exclusionary, mind you, but just to make a nice list of participants who could be contacted with ease. I've got a couple of other software notions rattling around in my head, but they're vague and I need to look into them.

Okey dokey. That's all I've got for now. Bring on the brainstorming. :firestrm:



* less actual suggestions than puerile mouthing off

[viscousmemories]

*Bump* I thought there would've been more interest in this. I'm still into it. :yup:

[D. Scarlatti]

My suggestion is Evidence: Teaching Materials For An Age Of Science And Statutes, 5th ed., by Carlson et al.

I made a similar suggestion elsewhere but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

[Ymir's blood]

I vote for Dostoevsky's Notes From the Underground. That way maybe I can be motivated enough to get past where he invites himself to the party for the old classmate he dislikes. It's beaten me twice now. :rock2:

[maddog]

My suggestion is Evidence: Teaching Materials For An Age Of Science And Statutes, 5th ed., by Carlson et al.

I made a similar suggestion elsewhere but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.Hmm. Can you give me a little more background on the book? I'm askeerd of tackling something that is huge and overwhelming, although I am generally interested in "what is evidence?" and why. I'm also VERY interested in understanding how science should be properly taught, given the siege it's under right now, especially since my own science education is so . . . well, "slender," shall we say. In fact, THAT might be something I would be interested in for myself -- filling in a better understanding of science, esp. the history of science, scientific method, etc.

liv, what kinds of things are on the Gutenberg Project list? Is it mostly classics? Are, e.g., the suggested Voltaire and/or the suggested Dostoevsky on their list?

I'm up for participating, but I can only read in small(ish) bites.

#212

[wade-w]

I guess I should admit that my Voltaire suggestion was meant to be tongue in cheek.

[livius drusus]

liv, what kinds of things are on the Gutenberg Project list? Is it mostly classics? Are, e.g., the suggested Voltaire and/or the suggested Dostoevsky on their list?

The GP catalogue (http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/) is almost entirely classics, maddog, or at least books that whose copyrights have long expired. The Voltaire essay is not on their list (it's available in several other places online, however, and is a good idea even if a tongue in cheek one ;)), but Notes from the Underground is.

I am concerned about us biting off more than we can chew, and I kind of think Notes is in that category even though it's quite short. Easing into things seems a better approach to me. :twocents:

[D. Scarlatti]

Can you give me a little more background on the book?

I was just kidding around. It's a law school text. I'd be very surprised if anyone other than a masochist or a law student (that may have been redundant) would be interested in ploughing through this sort of thing. Even so, although I'm only about 60 pages into it, it's good stuff. Either that or the onset of dementia on my part is so advanced I'm just irrationally believing it's interesting.

As law school texts go, my favorite so far has been Problems and Materials on Secured Transactions, and its companion volume, the Uniform Commercial Code. (I kid, but I'm no longer suffering from insomnia.)

[maddog]

D.Scarlatti: Wow, I totally misread the title of that book. I thought it was going to be about how to teach science. A law school text? I should've seen that one coming (my only excuse is that I never took Evidence in law school; I learned all I know about Evidence on the bar review!)

Joke's on me, guys, and it was a good one! (That's what I get for being fairly literal-minded!) Go ahead, folks, it's a fair cop, point-n-laugh time!!

OK, Voltaire was a joke, too. I must've had a target painted on my back that day!

Actually, I'm quite relieved, as I, like livius, would like to break in gently.
What about some poems? I read some Billy Collins poems for my office's holiday party "talent show"; those were fun.

liv: thanks for the GP link. Wow! SO MUCH to choose from!!
Anything appeal to anyone in particular? Robert or Elizabeth Browning? William Blake? or maybe beyond poetry to something with pieces like Bocaccio's Decameron? A Jane Austen novel, perhaps? Or Ursula LeGuin?
#214

[godfry n. glad]

D.Scarlatti: Wow, I totally misread the title of that book. I thought it was going to be about how to teach science. A law school text? I should've seen that one coming (my only excuse is that I never took Evidence in law school; I learned all I know about Evidence on the bar review!)

Joke's on me, guys, and it was a good one! (That's what I get for being fairly literal-minded!) Go ahead, folks, it's a fair cop, point-n-laugh time!!

OK, Voltaire was a joke, too. I must've had a target painted on my back that day!

Actually, I'm quite relieved, as I, like livius, would like to break in gently.
What about some poems? I read some Billy Collins poems for my office's holiday party "talent show"; those were fun.

liv: thanks for the GP link. Wow! SO MUCH to choose from!!
Anything appeal to anyone in particular? Robert or Elizabeth Browning? William Blake? or maybe beyond poetry to something with pieces like Bocaccio's Decameron? A Jane Austen novel, perhaps? Or Ursula LeGuin?
#214

Um... How about we select from a banned book list?

There's gotta be one or more online...Here, like this ALA one (http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/100mostfrequently.htm).

godfry

[maddog]

Another interesting list, godfry. Well, 100 most-banned books is a smaller initial pool. Easier to narrow down IMO. Out of that 100, ones that I KNOW I've wanted to read, but haven't done so are:
Caged Bird -Angelou
Chocolate War -Cormier
Color Purple - Walker
Handmaid's Tale -Atwood
Slaughterhouse 5 -Vonnegut
Summer of My German Soldier - Greene

Ones I've read but would like to read again:
Huck Finn -Twain
Catcher in the Rye -Salinger
Wrinkle in Time -L'Engle
Mockingbird -Lee
Flowers for Algernon -Keyes
Brave New World -Huxley
Lord of the Flies -Golding
Tom Sawyer -Twain

Ones I don't particularly want to read:
Sex -Madonna
Earth's Children -Auel
Bumps in the Night -Allard
Cujo -King
Anarchist Cookbook -Powell
Carrie -King
Dead Zone -King
Private Parts -Stern

The others I don't know too much about (though I've seen the movie adaptation of "Ordinary People" -- if it's the same work -- and liked it tremendously), but am perfectly willing to try if everyone else does too. Juvenile works and sex stuff I'm not terribly interested in. I think I could give Toni Morrison a much better try as a group read; the one time I started one of her books by myself, I found the dialect impenetrable, and felt as if I were beginning in the middle. Too difficult a read for me without support.

Anyway, that's my :twocents:
What say you-all? Any common ground that piques you?

#215

[viscousmemories]

The only two I've read from your list are Lord of the Flies and Catcher in the Rye. :blush:

I looked at that list when godfry posted it, and the one that jumped out that I've been wanting to read for a long time is I Know why the Caged Bird Sings, so I think you and I are on the same page. :yup:

[LadyShea]

All my books are packed away except my current reading (historical fiction is my new genre). Too bad too as I own the entire collected works of Poe.

[Clutch Munny]

Just wanted to say I love this idea, but probably won't get in on it. I "work through" the books I read for research; for pleasure I tend to read spastically, anarchically, several at once, and all depending on my mood. A couple times I've tried reading groups and the reading process came to resemble that of my work-reading; so then it came to feel like work.

But I'll follow the discussion with pleasure, I'm sure.

[godfry n. glad]

I'd say I'd be interested in Caged Bird...hell, I nearly had to teach it, once. I inherited the Caine Munity instead...which I'd actually read.

I like the mention of Kurt Vonnegut. I'd recommend Sirens of Titan or Cat's Cradle over Slaughterhouse 5. I'm a big fan of Kurt's. Breakfast of Champions is one of my all-time favorite books, but you've really got to know his corpus before you read it. It's been a long time, and I'd reread it all again.

Also...I appreciate the mention of Ursula LeGuin (a hometown heroine). Even though I do not enjoy "fantasy", I've come to treasure her sociological science fiction Hainish Triology: The Lathe of Heaven, The Dispossessed, and Left Hand of Darkness. Of the last, I would love to hear what others think and I think it would make an excellent group read.

Lastly.... If somebody wants to teach me how to enjoy poetry, I'm interested. I don't want to write...but enjoy. I don't, currently. I've come to savor a bit of Gary Snyder and some Kenneth Rexroth....but I'm sort of a poseur even with them.

My name is godfry, and I am a poetry philistine.

Same way with classical music, sad to say.

[godfry n. glad]

Just wanted to say I love this idea, but probably won't get in on it. I "work through" the books I read for research; for pleasure I tend to read spastically, anarchically, several at once, and all depending on my mood. A couple times I've tried reading groups and the reading process came to resemble that of my work-reading; so then it came to feel like work.

But I'll follow the discussion with pleasure, I'm sure.

"...I tend to read spastically, anarchically, several at once, and all depending on my mood."

I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK! :D

I've never been in a reading group. What do we do? :blink: Make sure liv doesn't move her lips when she reads silently? :book: Will we get to apply peer pressure? :gossip: I won't have to gather any signatures will I? :blink: Or buy anything? :spend:

Where's the bathroom around here, anyway? :shifty:

godfry

[maddog]

It looks to me like we have a tentative consensus coalescing around beginning with the "Caged Bird," yes? If, after we start, nobody likes it, we could bail and try something else, but picking one to start with seems a good . . . well, . . . start, eh? Beyond that, I've never been in a reading group (not even Oprah's Book Club). Does anybody know what we should do/do next? Should all those that want to read commit to getting a copy/access to a copy of the book by a certain date? And then in the meantime those who know how book club things work could advise us how to go about it.
#218

[ceptimus]

I think once we agree on a book, we set a date, and then everyone can begin posting their discussion of the book once the date is reached. To make the date easy to remember, we could do one book per calendar month, and the obvious date to choose as the opening day for discussion, is the 1st day of each month.

I suggest we also have a thread where we can nominate future books, and then we can have a vote to decide between those nominated.

So in, say, March, we could be:

1. Reading the 'March' book (that will be discussed in April).
2. Discussing the book that we all read during February.
3. Voting on the book we will read during April.
4. Nominating books for May and beyond.

Someone needs to volunteer, or be elected, whatever, to be the book club coordinator - or we could take turns. The duties of the coordinator would just be to select a short list (5 ?) of the nominated books, and post the poll thread. The poll ought to conclude by the end of the first week of the month, then that gives us all at least three weeks to obtain next month's read.

We just need perhaps one sticky thread or announcement with a summary of what books are being discussed/read/obtained currently, and threads with titles like March 2005 discussion - Harry Potter and the blah blah blah and April 2005 poll, etc. A separate 'reading group' sub-forum (from Arts & Literature ?) would be the best place to keep them.

[godfry n. glad]

Sounds workable to me.

I will firmly resist taking on any organizational responsibilities.

godfry

[TomJoe]

Catch 22 - Joseph Heller

What's Wrong With the World - G. K. Chesterton (I don't know if many people would go for this one :P ).

The Moon is a Harsh Mistress - Robert Heinlein

[TomJoe]

Something manageable:

Classic Short Stories (http://www.bnl.com/shorts/bib.html#shootelp)

[Dingfod]

It would have to be something from this selection of books (http://www.bathroomreader.com/home.html) before I would be able to join.

[maddog]

How do you make a poll? I've never done one.
#219

[livius drusus]

How do you make a poll? I've never done one.
#219
Here you go (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/faq.php?faq=faq_freethoughtforum#faq_vb_poll_explain). I have a more detailed version with screen caps and all that if the FAQ entry is unclear. :)

[maddog]

I have an infinite capacity for dithering. In the interests of starting, rather than just hemming and hawing and dancing around and avoiding commitment, can I just suggest beginning with Maya Angelou's "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings"?
I only say that b/c it's got 3 at-least-tentative votes already. I'll volunteer to be discussion coordinator (i.e., for this book; I'm not wanting either to take over/be pushy, or to volunteer for permanent duty; I just thought since I was the one mostly pushing this book, I should shoulder the responsibility for the discussion), with discussion to begin March 1 (following ceptimus's proposed structure). I'm proposing March 1, so we'll have time to read it. Feb 1 seems too close at this point, to me.
#220

[D. Scarlatti]

Go ahead, folks, it's a fair cop, point-n-laugh time!!

Or you can laugh at me for not realizing you're a lawyer.

[Sweetie]

Sounds interesting, it would help with motivation which I often lack when it comes to reading.

Ummm, don't shoot but I ran into this list the other day and it kinda blew me away, it's like whoa! Lots of books on that list I'd like to read which are available online, one of my friends has been telling me for months that I need to read this book:

Anna Kerenina - Leo Tolstoy

There are so many on this list that just catch my eye from skimming but here's the link as if you needed the suggestion of a couple hudred books. :wink: It's a valuable link though I think, I stored it.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/staff/magi/personal/books/Books_by_title.html

[maddog]

Go ahead, folks, it's a fair cop, point-n-laugh time!!

Or you can laugh at me for not realizing you're a lawyer.
:quiet: Don't tell! :shhh:
#221

[maddog]

I have an infinite capacity for dithering. In the interests of starting, rather than just hemming and hawing and dancing around and avoiding commitment, can I just suggest beginning with Maya Angelou's "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings"?
I only say that b/c it's got 3 at-least-tentative votes already. I'll volunteer to be discussion coordinator (i.e., for this book; I'm not wanting either to take over/be pushy, or to volunteer for permanent duty; I just thought since I was the one mostly pushing this book, I should shoulder the responsibility for the discussion), with discussion to begin March 1 (following ceptimus's proposed structure). I'm proposing March 1, so we'll have time to read it. Feb 1 seems too close at this point, to me.
#220
OK, THAT went over like a lead balloon. :sadcheer: :anvil:

Perhaps we should create a poll, with the books nominated so far? Or a different poll to see if we only want short stories and poems (manageable size works) or if novels should be included?
#232

[Beth]

I have that book(I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings) and have only gotten into the first chapter because of distractions. I thought it lovely so far. I would love to read it for discuission.

[livius drusus]

I think your proposal is a-okay for the first book we do and I'm totally on board with your chairwomanship, but I would still rather start with something shorter just as a warm-up session. We could read a poem or short story now, discuss it for a week or so, read IKWtCBS in February, discuss it in March, etc. That way we could try and de-brutify godfry before we started the book. :P

I also think a poll wrt book choice is in order just on general principle (and because cep's engineer flow appeals to my anality ;)). Just to toss a few more possibilities out there, I'd love to reread The Chocolate War, The Pillars of the Earth, Brave New World from the ALA list, The Picture of Dorian Gray, Northanger Abbey or Persuasion, The Prince, or even The Legend of Sleepy Hollow (which scared the living sheisse out of me when I was a kid just because of the very notion of a Headless Horseman totally freaked me out) from Project Guttenberg's top 100.

(Incidentally, how weird is that list of banned books? One thing is clear: there are many, many people out there with hangups about sex.)

[viscousmemories]

Oh yeah, I'd love to read Brave New World. I never have. That and 1984 are a couple of books I've always meant to read, but never got around to. :blush:

[Beth]

One book I am currently reading is Lady Chatterly's Lover. I love the book and am amazed that it was writen way back when because of the way femal sexual desires are addressed. I love reading formerly banned books.

[maddog]

All righty, then. livius, pick a poem or short story -- quickly! -- b/c there's so little of January left. Then we'll read "Caged Bird" during February for discussion in March. And in the meantime I'll cull the suggestions so far for the NEXT book and create a poll with from 5-8 choices. Sound OK?
#233

[Ymir's blood]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to choose something in the pubic domain and available online? That might be more convenient (not to mention less expensive) than everyone trying to buy the same book.

Here are a couple of sites offering stories and eBooks for free:
Online Literature Library (http://www.literature.org/)
Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/)
Blackmask (http://www.blackmask.com/page.php)

[livius drusus]

How about Tennyson's Ulysses (http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem2191.html)? It's pretty well known, long enough to sink your teeth into but not so long it's intimidating, and the speaker is an old coot so it seems like godfry should feel right at home. :beaugest:

[viscousmemories]

I'd love to be able to read that, but as of this moment I can't. :doh: It honestly reads like a mathematical proof to me. I can't understand a line of it. Here's what I see:

Fish cannot, lest the dog wander thust. For spake cats jiggler, and dot the mole
One noth the skent to biddle, tides are tides and mine is to smittle.

One canth tote the frank and weary, but join the castle set and parry
Walk the path abidth a wine, to join the kath and marry.

[livius drusus]

I feel like that when I'm reading physics. The discussion itself might help make things clearer -- I have buttloads of explanatory material squirreled away -- but please don't take my suggestion as anything but an idea. I couldn't think of any good short stories when I wrote that post and had poetry in mind on account of godfry. If the group would rather stick with prose or another poem, I'm totally down.

[godfry n. glad]

I have an infinite capacity for dithering. In the interests of starting, rather than just hemming and hawing and dancing around and avoiding commitment, can I just suggest beginning with Maya Angelou's "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings"?
I only say that b/c it's got 3 at-least-tentative votes already. I'll volunteer to be discussion coordinator (i.e., for this book; I'm not wanting either to take over/be pushy, or to volunteer for permanent duty; I just thought since I was the one mostly pushing this book, I should shoulder the responsibility for the discussion), with discussion to begin March 1 (following ceptimus's proposed structure). I'm proposing March 1, so we'll have time to read it. Feb 1 seems too close at this point, to me.
#220
OK, THAT went over like a lead balloon. :sadcheer: :anvil:

Hey! I thought it an excellent idea and a public-spirited offer. I accept.

Perhaps we should create a poll, with the books nominated so far? Or a different poll to see if we only want short stories and poems (manageable size works) or if novels should be included?
#232

I'm of the distinct opinion that novels should be included. But I'm willing to do short stories and poems as well. I think the poll is a great idea.

I think we can also do a "Poetry Corner".

godfry

[godfry n. glad]

I feel like that when I'm reading physics. The discussion itself might help make things clearer -- I have buttloads of explanatory material squirreled away -- but please don't take my suggestion as anything but an idea. I couldn't think of any good short stories when I wrote that post and had poetry in mind on account of godfry. If the group would rather stick with prose or another poem, I'm totally down.

Hmmm....From vm's response I thought I was going to get Middle English or something. I read it. It's got interesting word usage and most of it's comprehensible, but it's kinda like doing a mental walk where the walkway is uneven and broken, so one trips, stubs and has to watch one's balance. That's because of the unfamiliar usage or construction.

Now what?

Buttloads? You gonna let fly the feces?

godfry

[viscousmemories]

I finally figured out the first few sentences, after about 20 readings. There's just something about the construction that literally makes it read like gibberish to me unless I concentrate really hard on what each word means and keep referring back to the sentences prior to the one I'm reading. It's just a bit disconcerting, 'cause it feels like I suddenly forgot how to read in English. But I'm totally down with it. Let's do it. :)

[Beth]

Ulysses is ok by me. Just like 8th grade English lit!

[ceptimus]

All righty, then. livius, pick a poem or short story -- quickly! -- b/c there's so little of January left. Then we'll read "Caged Bird" during February for discussion in March. And in the meantime I'll cull the suggestions so far for the NEXT book and create a poll with from 5-8 choices. Sound OK?
#233
Sounds good to me maddog. I'm in. Have we decided on the poem or short story we're reading in what's left of January yet? I'm confused about that part.

[livius drusus]

So far Ulysses is the sole poem/short story submission. If nobody comes up with anything else by tomorrow night, I'll go ahead and dive in with a thread.

Oh, and do we keep it to individual threads right now, or do we go for the subforum?

[Beth]

I like the idea of a subforum unless you sticky the thread.

[godfry n. glad]

Okay...

As for obtaining a copy, I'd suggest that all those who have the luxury of an available public library use it. If you don't but have a choice of new or used, check the used first. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings has been on a humungous number of class syllabi; I would expect there to be sizeable numbers of copies of this title at decent prices in the used book stores. Also...You could ask around amongst your literate rl friends (you know who they are).

I need to reread the poem before I comment again.

godfry

perhaps we should use Ulysses to start a new poetry thread?

[godfry n. glad]

I finally figured out the first few sentences, after about 20 readings. There's just something about the construction that literally makes it read like gibberish to me unless I concentrate really hard on what each word means and keep referring back to the sentences prior to the one I'm reading. It's just a bit disconcerting, 'cause it feels like I suddenly forgot how to read in English. But I'm totally down with it. Let's do it. :)

Kewl.

I think I understand what you mean about the construction slowing you down. I found myself hunting for periods to know when I could stop. I think my Shakespeare exposure help me not be intimidated (not that I understand it any better). But I did note that the cadence is nothing like Shakespeare....so I assume the poetic structure is not iambic pentameter.

Is this correct, liv?

godfry

[viscousmemories]

This was a good excuse for me to find the local library. :)

[livius drusus]

You are indeed correct, godfry. There's barely an iamb to be found and any pentameter is strictly coincidental. You don't have to wait for a period to stop when you're reading, btw. A comma or semicolon indicate a pause as well.

Thank you for your enthusiasm, godfry. I'll start sifting through the afore-mentioned butload and get to work on an OP right now. :student:

[godfry n. glad]

You are indeed correct, godfry. There's barely an iamb to be found and any pentameter is strictly coincidental. You don't have to wait for a period to stop when you're reading, btw. A comma or semicolon indicate a pause as well.

Thank you for your enthusiasm, godfry. I'll start sifting through the afore-mentioned butload and get to work on an OP right now. :student:

Now, just to warn you, I'm not a total neophyte. During my last three years in university (lo, these many, many years ago - the early 70's) I cohabitated with a sexual minx who was a French major and aspiring poetess. She almost always carried about a little booklet of forms of poetry. I've seen that there are many, many types....but I don't know how a particular form becomes notable enough to be included in this rudimentary style book.

(I, of course, had my head in production curves, elasticity of demand, money supply and trade balances....I didn't pay much attention to aabbaa, bbcc,aabbaa, and so on.)

Buttloads? I'm still intrigued.

The reason: I've had literature students, graduate literature students, grouse to me about James Joyce's material. They've claimed that Joyce is nothing but an incomprehensible pile of excrement, fit only for the feeding of the flies of literature students and literary critics. I was inclined to agree....but then, I know I'm a philestine. I call it "shiploads"...but then, I live in a port city and the allusion is more obvious around here.

godfry

[livius drusus]

Oh, but this poem predates Joyce. Tennyson's Ulysses is a Victorian version of the Ulysses we encounter in Dante's Inferno. It's definitely not what one usually thinks of as neophyte study material, but honestly, I think it's eminently manageable. My goal is just to flesh it out a little, give some historical and literary background, a quick overview of what's going on in the poem itself, and then point to a few things I really like about it.

My hope is that once all that's set up, you and vm and anyone else who finds it a little perplexing will feel comfortable enough to find things of value from your own perspective, not that it'll covert you overnight into a big huge poetry fan or anything. I know my limits. ;)

[maddog]

Righty-ho. Tennyson's Ulysses. Check.
February novel: Angelou's I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. Check.
During February: Vote on March reading. In process (I'll create the poll).
Discuss Ulysses.

Have I got it right, so far?
#234

[livius drusus]

By George, I think you've got it. :yup:

[maddog]

Right, then. Roger and out. I'll be creating the March book poll.
#235

[godfry n. glad]

Oh, but this poem predates Joyce. Tennyson's Ulysses is a Victorian version of the Ulysses we encounter in Dante's Inferno. It's definitely not what one usually thinks of as neophyte study material, but honestly, I think it's eminently manageable. My goal is just to flesh it out a little, give some historical and literary background, a quick overview of what's going on in the poem itself, and then point to a few things I really like about it.

My hope is that once all that's set up, you and vm and anyone else who finds it a little perplexing will feel comfortable enough to find things of value from your own perspective, not that it'll covert you overnight into a big huge poetry fan or anything. I know my limits. ;)

That's fine. I'll learn to crawl before I haul myself up and totter on two brain cells.

Tennyson is mid-19th century England, right? "Victorian" is a long period, encompassing much of the 19th century.

What do I remember about Tennyson...oh, yeah. He's a mystic. He used to chant himself into an ecstatic trance, using his own name as the mantra.

That's it.

So... The narrator of the poem is Ulysses, or someone doing a eulogy about Ulysses?

Dante and Ulysses....both decended into the place of the afterlife; the warehouse of souls. Dante through the levels of hell, Ulysses to meet with the shade of his father. Is that right?

godfry

[Ymir's blood]

Queen Victoria reigned from 1837 to 1901.

[godfry n. glad]

Okay....Now this is really off-topic, but I'm having an overwhelming sense of deja-vu about this thread. So far as I know, I've never read or spoken with anyone about Tennyson's Ulysses, but all this is so familiar.

It's some kind of synaptic feedback in the brain that causes deja vu, isn't it?

Weird.

[livius drusus]

Tennyson is mid-19th century England, right? "Victorian" is a long period, encompassing much of the 19th century.

Tennyson was born in 1809 and died in 1892. He was enormously popular from 1842 until his death, basically.

What do I remember about Tennyson...oh, yeah. He's a mystic. He used to chant himself into an ecstatic trance, using his own name as the mantra.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Wordsworth? He was known for "meditation on self" to bring about trance-like states which he felt stimulated his creativity, but I've never heard that the meditation on self was actually using his name as a mantra.

So... The narrator of the poem is Ulysses, or someone doing a eulogy about Ulysses?

It's Ulysses. There'll be more about that in the new thread I'm working on.

Dante and Ulysses....both decended into the place of the afterlife; the warehouse of souls. Dante through the levels of hell, Ulysses to meet with the shade of his father. Is that right?

Right on Dante, who found Odysseus engulfed in eternal flame among the Counselors of Fraud way down in the 7th pouch of the 8th circle. Almost right on Ulysses who descended into Hades to hear his fate from the prophet Tiresias and got a chance to talk to him mom, Agamemnon, Achilles and a bunch of other Trojan War veterans while he was there, but not his father, Laertes.

P.S. - No deja vu feeling for me, I'm afraid, but I'll definitely get one in the new thread just because of this one. :wink:

[livius drusus]

As you might have noticed, I've gone ahead and set up the RG subforum as we discussed here. I couldn't think of anything clever for the name and description, so if anyone has any ideas they'd like to see implemented, please do pipe up. :)

[maddog]

Why you silly classicist, you. It's the Library of Alexandria, of course. Unless it's Socrates's Academy. Or unless you'd rather call it the "tablinum" (sp?), the "office" or "study" in a Roman house, where the master/mistress kept his/her scrolls.
#238

[godfry n. glad]

Why you silly classicist, you. It's the Library of Alexandria, of course. Unless it's Socrates's Academy. Or unless you'd rather call it the "tablinum" (sp?), the "office" or "study" in a Roman house, where the master/mistress kept his/her scrolls.
#238

Latinist! Latinist! We need a Latinist!

We need a pretentious name for a place to gather and learn. A school.

Please.

Thank you.

godfry

[Ymir's blood]

Some suggestions:

The Athenaeum
The Salon
The Study
Elsewhere (forget that, I've used it already. :p )

[godfry n. glad]

Some suggestions:

The Athenaeum
The Salon
The Study
Elsewhere (forget that, I've used it already. :p )

Under the pergola?

That tho? Athenaeum. How do you thay that?

Yeah? Well YOU TOO!

godfry

[livius drusus]

:chuckle: Y'all are goofy. I'm down with the classical angle, but I'd really like people to have some idea of what the hell is going down in that forum at a glance, so I don't think we should go too obscure.

[godfry n. glad]

Tennyson is mid-19th century England, right? "Victorian" is a long period, encompassing much of the 19th century.

Tennyson was born in 1809 and died in 1892. He was enormously popular from 1842 until his death, basically.

What do I remember about Tennyson...oh, yeah. He's a mystic. He used to chant himself into an ecstatic trance, using his own name as the mantra.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Wordsworth? He was known for "meditation on self" to bring about trance-like states which he felt stimulated his creativity, but I've never heard that the meditation on self was actually using his name as a mantra.



Well, I remember it being Tennyson, because I piped up and said something snotty like, "So...did he repeat "Alfred, Lord Tennyson" over and over?" Which brought about much disapprobation and corretion as to it having occurred during his youth, before he came to the peerage.

Varieties of Religious Experience, by William James. It's contained in a footnote on page 374 in my 1936 Modern Library edition as, "The Two Voices. In a letter to Mr. B.P. Blood, Tennyson reports of himself as follows:-
'I have never had any revelations through anaesthetics, but a kind of waking trance--this for lack of a better word--I have frequently had, quite up from boyhood, when I have been all alone. This has come upon me through repeating my own name to myself silently, till all at once, as it were out of the intensity of the consciousness of individuality, individuality itself seemed to dissolve and fade away into boundless being, and this is not a confused state but the clearest, the surest of the surest, utterly beyond words--where death was an almost laughable impossibility--the loss of personality (if so it were) seeming no extinction, but only the true life. I am ashamed of my feeble description. Have I not said the state is utterly beyond words?'"

Heavy, huh?

Sounds to me like he's hooked on ecstatic tripping on his own name.

godfry

Damn, I love it when I can go right to my source!

[livius drusus]

Hooboy, ain't it though? I have to admit, though, I kinda know what he's talking about (when I was a kid, I used to like looking at myself in the mirror until I couldn't recognize myself anymore), but it wasn't clear or sure or creative oneness or anything like that. It was freaky and I shook it off as soon as possible.

Thank you for the quote, godfry. They don't have stuff like that in the author intros in my Norton Anthologies. :)

[godfry n. glad]

My college sweetheart (the vixen poetess) was into Victorian eccentrics. Lady Sackville-West and the like (IIRC). I was exposed to a lot of esoteric stuff. :krishna: :buddha: :mama: :gandalf: :nazgul: :bravehrt: :kermit: :alien: :shakespeare:

And, of course, I've an interest in the variety of religious experience, so it's natural I'd read the actual cite. It was having had it told me and then finding it later in a reputable source that fixed it in my memory.:einstein:

And the index, of course. :D

godfry

[livius drusus]

I see you, NietzscheCat! What do you think of what we've scared up so far? Oh, and don't forget to vote on next month's book. :)

[NietzscheCat]

livius drusus-- I see you, NietzscheCat! What do you think of what we've scared up so far? Oh, and don't forget to vote on next month's book.


It looks like it's coming along great.