Drunks

[livius drusus]

I've never been much of a drinker. Oh, I've gotten drunk plenty, but my preferred substance to abuse has always been weed, mainly because I don't have the stomach to imbibe great quantities of liquor and because I prefer my altered states mellow. So given my own history, I'm not much of a judger. I always figured to each his own and it's none of my business.

Lately, though, I've been feeling an increasing discomfort with this position. Oddly enough, this is mainly due to people posting while intoxicated. It's kind of not funny anymore. It's kind of creepy, in fact, and if someone does it with any kind of regularity, it makes me feel all squirmy inside.

Now granted, I am a worrier of outlandish (dis)proportions, so my thoughts immediately turn to their safety: are they going to be driving, will they pass out on their stomachs just in case they vomit in their sleep, do they have any Advil in house -- that kind of thing. I just don't feel like I have the right to say anything like that because I ain't they mama and even if I were they wouldn't be listening to me anyway.

So I play along, mostly saying nothing, occasionally saying something noncommittal, but I can't help but wonder if I'm being all cool and non-judgemental or just allowing them to avoid thinking of the consequences -- even only stupid making liv worry consequences -- of their actions.

This disquiet is notable irl too, not just when it comes to lush friends of mine, but even hearing second or third hand about dangerous drunken circumstances. It makes me want to call people I don't even know and ask them to avoid dark corners in clubs, to stay off the road, to sleep on their stomachs, to just be careful.

On the other hand, I'm obviously getting old. I swear I didn't use to be such a fucking nanny. :deepsigh:

Am I alone in this?

[lady cop]

no you're NOT alone...drunks tend to play a big role in my career and it's not usually in a positive way. i'd rather see them posting while drunk than driving or smacking their loved ones around. :saddrunk: :drunk: :drunk3: :drunk2: it's not nanny-like to give a shit about your friends.

[Dingfod]

I have not been drinking at all, if that's what you're thinking. I haven't had more than a sip of Nyquil since that one night back in November.

[LadyShea]

I'll admit I have been drunk more times than I can count. However, I never drank alone, my friends and/or hubby or both were always with me. We all had a pact to watch out for each other and if Frankie was with us he nursed a beer or two and played babysitter.

I haven't drank much in the last 14 months, only overimbibing on New Years. Frankie joined in since we were taxicabbing for the night. Since I am no longer part of the club scene, I too have started worrying about people. Maybe we have become lil ole ladies, liv, but I know where you're coming from.

Sorry to put the "dark corner of clubs" into your head as some brand new worry, but I live in Vegas. People being slipped some GHB is a regular occurance, we have dozens of nightclubs, some of them enormous and all of them terribly dark and crowded, and unfortunately the "Vegas rule of nondisclosure" creates a sense of anything goes. Normal people of both genders here for a conference or bachelor(ette)who may be totally bland surbubanites at home can become out of control quite easily.

[Beth]

I can get drunk off of a single glass of wine sometimes, especially if I forgot to eat that day. I never drive after one sip and never drink if kids are home unless my husband is here. I cannot even drive after some medications(cough syrup, decongestants, and so on) because they cause intoxication in me. It is funny, though, after about four drinks, I automatically become aware and sober up; sucks when I am out at a concert and I want to be smashed.

I have posted smashed but if I was calm, no one would know, but if I was upset before drank, I am not likely going to be coherrant, mainly because my emotions are messing with me, though usually my drunkeness was caused by just a drink or so. Funny though, I can usually remain calm and normal at home.

I've never been so drunk that I vomit and I have never passed out.

[Ensign Steve]

Now granted, I am a worrier of outlandish (dis)proportions, so my thoughts immediately turn to their safety: are they going to be driving, will they pass out on their stomachs just in case they vomit in their sleep, do they have any Advil in house -- that kind of thing. I just don't feel like I have the right to say anything like that because I ain't they mama and even if I were they wouldn't be listening to me anyway.


If I'm posting, I'm already home and not driving. I don't vomit drunk, but rather spend the morning enjoying the after-effects of all the alcohol I imbibed. I'm alergic to Advil, so, no, I don't keep it in my house. Yes, I drink alone, but that's because I don't want to go out to a bar/club and worry about how I'm going to get home, and I don't want people drinking in my house and worry about how they are going to get home (and whether they are of age and whether they're going to tell the cop who pulls them over where they got the alcohol, I learned that one the hard way! :eek: ). When I PWI, you can worry about how obnoxious I am going to get, but you don't have to worry about much else. I mean, that's more than enough, isn't it? But I know you worry because you care. It brings a tear to my eye. *sniff* I love you mama!!!

[viscousmemories]

I hate to say it, but I feel essentially the same as liv since I quit drinking. Watching people post drunk is like being sober at 2:00 am at a bar (which I've done once or twice... like if I was sick or already sobered up from the days drinking). I guess after 25ish years of trying to kill myself with excessive alcohol consumption it just doesn't amuse me to see someone else obviously damaging themselves. I know every rationalization and justification in the book, and there's a big part of me (the hedonist and the nihilist, to name two) that thinks "go for it". But at the same time I know how unhealthy (emotionally and intellectually) it often is and it does make me uncomfortable too.

I usually don't say anything to people because I know exactly how much effect it had on me when my friends all told me how much they hated watching me overconsume. None at all. In fact it had the opposite effect; I would just avoid those friends. Besides, the fact that I've quit drinking makes it appear that I'm an evangelist trying to sell people on some spiritual discovery I've made, and I'm no more interested in being thought of as a self-righteous reformed alcoholic than I am in watching people I like put themselves in dangerous situations.

Anyway, there's my ramble and it's probably the last I'll ever say on the subject. :wave:

[Ensign Steve]

I smoke, too. ;)

[RevDahlia]

This is only marginally relevant, but it does pertain to the potentially tragic and embarrassing PWI phenomenon.

At a forum I used to frequent there was a thread called "oh-drunk:30". It was basically a PWI thread -- "oh-drunk:30" being the time it is when you should have stopped drinking half an hour ago and didn't -- but the standing rule was if you posted in the thread, you were not allowed to correct any typos. You got one shot to post. Editing was strictly verboten. It all relied heavily on the honor system. Furthermore, drunken persons were not allowed to post anywhere else on the board.

The regulars on this board were serious partiers, and as far as I could tell they all drank to the point of intoxication at least two or three times a week. But there was a curious side effect of the infamous thread, which was that it made people slow down. Seeing our drunken posts, without benefit of editing or spellcheck, was kind of a sobering experience, emotionally and chemically. I remember going on an oh-drunk:30 binge once and posting up a storm on that thread, and looking at it the next day and realizing how much of an asshole I could be when I was wasted. Curiously, that one small thing contributed more than anything else to my decision to cut down on my drinking. My friends weren't going to say anything, but there was no denying that hard cold black-and-white evidence.

The oh-drunk:30 thread will never drop off the bottom of the screen at that forum, but since its inception its traffic has tapered off dramatically.

[Petra]

Hi, my name is Petra and I drink too much. I have an unhealthy love affair with benders.

I had to do a quick check to make sure this thread wasn't about any posting I did last night, as I was partying.

Hopefully, it's not about me - I can't see anything too obnoxious or obviously PWI'ed despite my vodka excesses yesterday.

:blush:

[lady cop]

well i got into the cuba libre habit living in the Keys. my self-imposed rule is not to have even one drink and drive, and i cannot by law have a drink within 8 hours of going on duty. reasonable as far as i am concerned. when i am off-duty and i think they are going to send a cruiser :policecar: to come get me and make me work, i simply say "i'll be right there, as soon as i finish this drink"...works every time, :D

[Sweetie]

I assume everyone that is posting while drunk is already at home for some reason, maybe because I figure they'd be pretty boring to party with if they're sitting on the computer the whole time. :P

I don't drink and drive, I don't drink often so I can't drink much. Wish I would've started on weed instead as my substance of choice but then it's probably good that I didn't, effects prevent causes sometimes. :P The effects of alcohol on me, dizziness, occasionally an upset stomach causes me to only imbibe occasionally and only in moderation.

The occasional drunk poster doesn't bother me all that much.

Now dangerous drunken circumstances are a big issue. Man, I went to a party this summer with longtime friends and my one friend was drunk and he was running through the living room, through the kitchen, out the patio doors, jump up on the railing or just clear over it which is over waist high, the patio itself at least seven feet off the ground, and into the pool, and it wasn't a big pool. I couldn't stand it, visions of him catching his foot on the railing, visions of concrete and ugh, it was terrible. A few of us were disturbed so we had a friend talk to him about it, but man, I was the most disturbed. I could just sit in the living room cringing with my eyes closed waiting for the worst to happen.

But I mean, I don't assume dangerous circumstances unless there is good reason so it's not a worry to me as far as that goes, not from out here in cyberspace at least.

[livius drusus]

I've split the (somewhat ironic) drinking advice segment to here (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1529).

[livius drusus]

i'd rather see them posting while drunk than driving or smacking their loved ones around.

Oh I'm totally with you on that. In fact, it's one of the reasons I don't whimper to PWIers because I'd much rather see them vegging in front of a computer than decide to go somewhere where the buzzkills aren't.

it's not nanny-like to give a shit about your friends.

Thank you, lady cop. It's not just my friends I worry about, though. If I ever read that thread RevDahlia described I'd be pretty seriously upset by it, and I wouldn't know any of those folks from Adam.

I have not been drinking at all, if that's what you're thinking. I haven't had more than a sip of Nyquil since that one night back in November.

You were definitely one of the people I worried about, Warren. Your drunk posts evinced such... I dunno... despair, maybe? Ugh, see what I mean about the whimpering? Anyway, I'm glad you're okay (and currently dry).

[Sweetie]

I have a question Liv. Does it bother you personally that people are discussing/recommending certain types of alcohol?

Just FYI, my post was not advice, just in case that wasn't clear. It can be broken down like this:

Fact: I drank alchol when I was young because I had access.

Fact: People around here do some crazy things like abuse solvents and drink mouthwash which I think is awful/crazy/stupid.

Fact: I have not and would not have consumed Listerine.

[livius drusus]

I have a question Liv. Does it bother you personally that people are discussing/recommending certain types of alcohol?

In this thread, yes. In general, not in the least.

Just FYI, my post was not advice, just in case that wasn't clear. It can be broken down like this:

Yes, I got that. It's still perfectly visible in the split thread. No need to reiterate it here.

[livius drusus]

Since I am no longer part of the club scene, I too have started worrying about people. Maybe we have become lil ole ladies, liv, but I know where you're coming from.

Maybe once you step outside a sec things on the inside look a lot more reckless than they did when you were doing them? I guess that's something of a truism, I guess, but I haven't gotten habitually drunk since college really and that was 10 years ago. My unease is a far more recent phenomenon.

Sorry to put the "dark corner of clubs" into your head as some brand new worry, but I live in Vegas.

No problem, Shea. As soon as you said that I remembered some of the maze-like clubs I used to hit in Rome, many of them had nookie couches set up intentionally and walls and corners blocking eyelines all over the place. Oh, and no drinking age.

I'm amazed, frankly, that nothing bad ever happened to me or any of my friends, and our alarm systems and coded signals were a big part of that, I think. Also, what happens in Rome is spread far and wide to everyone you know and a large number of people you don't. ;)

[livius drusus]

I can get drunk off of a single glass of wine sometimes, especially if I forgot to eat that day.

I've got a ridiculously low tolerance too. Two glasses of wine with dinner will easily get me buzzing. One if it's a full-bodied red. :blush:

I have posted smashed but if I was calm, no one would know, but if I was upset before drank, I am not likely going to be coherrant, mainly because my emotions are messing with me, though usually my drunkeness was caused by just a drink or so. Funny though, I can usually remain calm and normal at home.

Interesting. I always figure PWIers are more relaxed and goofy than they would be talking to people face to face. Then again, maybe it's just the typos that give that impression.

[pescifish]

I feel the same concern when I see people PWI as I do encountering someone IRL, so you can count me in as one of the ol' nannies. As with IRL, if the person online is in a safe place, not doing anything personally destructive or hurtful to someone else (due to an alcohol diminished capacity for impulse restraint), I don't worry about it too much. But sometimes I just cringe and think "ah geeze, that's gonna hurt in the morning!"

And there are times, both IRL and online, when it seems like people get drunk with the intention of having an excuse to act like a complete ass -- 'cuz doesn't everyone forgive the tipsy once the sun comes up and the breakfast eggs are runny on the toast? Or they simply say they are drunk, so they can act in ways they normally wouldn't.

However, when it's IRL, there is more exposure to physical evidence and it is easier to determine whether the person is actually what and who and in the state they are presenting themselves. I have found online, the playact drunk happens much more often than IRL.

I have not been drinking at all, if that's what you're thinking. I haven't had more than a sip of Nyquil since that one night back in November.

You were definitely one of the people I worried about, Warren. Your drunk posts evinced such... I dunno... despair, maybe? Ugh, see what I mean about the whimpering? Anyway, I'm glad you're okay (and currently dry).I felt the same way during that period of time (uh, in November maybe, after the elections?) when warren alluded or spoke directly of being under the influence the night of and horribly sick the next day. But then, I come to find out in the "Personal Quirks" (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32550&postcount=75) thread:I never really liked drinking alcohol to excess. I normally like to drink pretty fast up to the point where I'm feeling a bit tipsy, a little bit uninhibited, but then just drink enough after that to maintain that level of drunkenness. As a result, I haven't had a hangover in decades.Boy, what a fucking chump I was for being concerned in the first place! Overall though, it was a relief to hear the "real thing", of course!

The fact is, we really can't tell whether people are shittin' us ever online or IRL. But online, it seems harder to know who Post While under the Influence or just Post While Full of Shit and/or Post For Attention.

As with IRL, I don't intend to become callous or always skeptical. I'd rather be a chump and ol' nanny concerned about people I care about than to harden my heart. It's just my nature. Not long ago, on a board I frequent, one member did post quite a bit admitting to PWI. It concerned the beejeebus outta me and I was compelled to make some phone calls to see if things were alright. In that case they weren't and I was glad I reached out as a friend.

[livius drusus]

If I'm posting, I'm already home and not driving.

Check.

I don't vomit drunk, but rather spend the morning enjoying the after-effects of all the alcohol I imbibed.

Problem of induction, donchaknow: just because you never have vomitted drunk doesn't mean you never will, so that stays on the worry list. ;)

I'm alergic to Advil, so, no, I don't keep it in my house.

So you're left to cope with hangovers without Advil; a slight modification to the worry list.

Yes, I drink alone, but that's because I don't want to go out to a bar/club and worry about how I'm going to get home, and I don't want people drinking in my house and worry about how they are going to get home (and whether they are of age and whether they're going to tell the cop who pulls them over where they got the alcohol, I learned that one the hard way! :eek: ).

That's sensible enough, JD, but you realize that at some point the issue for me becomes the health of regularly drinking to get drunk period. It just doesn't sound at all good to me.

When I PWI, you can worry about how obnoxious I am going to get, but you don't have to worry about much else. I mean, that's more than enough, isn't it?

He he... Bah, it's not that bad. The only things I really don't like are bad thread derailments and someone talking shit about someone else and that almost never happens.

But I know you worry because you care. It brings a tear to my eye. *sniff* I love you mama!!!

That's my girl. You be careful now, y'hear?

[livius drusus]

I usually don't say anything to people because I know exactly how much effect it had on me when my friends all told me how much they hated watching me overconsume. None at all. In fact it had the opposite effect; I would just avoid those friends.

Right. That's the buzzkill fear I mentioned to lady cop above. "Give me shit, will you? I'll just pour myself into this here car and head off to the local poolhall where they don't judge."

Besides, the fact that I've quit drinking makes it appear that I'm an evangelist trying to sell people on some spiritual discovery I've made, and I'm no more interested in being thought of as a self-righteous reformed alcoholic than I am in watching people I like put themselves in dangerous situations.

I somehow doubt anyone would think you'd made spirtual discoveries, but I take your general point. I hate being thought of as a whining, cringing, pathetic, self-appointed mom.

[godfry n. glad]

I hate being thought of as a whining, cringing, pathetic, self-appointed mom.

Then think of yourself as a righteous, caring and upstanding citizen and friend. That's what I do when I shake down my friends for their car keys.

As for PWI, I do it about half the time I'm here. Rarely, if ever, is it alcohol, though.

godfry

[pescifish]

I somehow doubt anyone would think you'd made spirtual discoveries, but I take your general point.:mememe: I bull-leave!
:peace3:

I hate being thought of as a whining, cringing, pathetic, self-appointed mom. Now, this one I somehow doubt!

[godfry n. glad]

The only things I really don't like are bad thread derailments and someone talking shit about someone else and that almost never happens.

Yeah, almost never.

godfry :innocent:

[Beth]

You know, I think it just dawned on me why alcohol hits me so hard now, I weigh about 25 pounds less than I did last year.

Anyway Liv, I appreciate your concern and you raise valid issues. If I PWI, I don't mind if someone questions me and I will appreciate it. I know it is much rarer now than I did in '03 when I was on the verge of just crumbling under too much pressure. Plus, I was taking a whacked set of meds.

[Dingfod]

I felt the same way during that period of time (uh, in November maybe, after the elections?) when warren alluded or spoke directly of being under the influence the night of and horribly sick the next day. But then, I come to find out in the "Personal Quirks" (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32550&postcount=75) thread:I never really liked drinking alcohol to excess. I normally like to drink pretty fast up to the point where I'm feeling a bit tipsy, a little bit uninhibited, but then just drink enough after that to maintain that level of drunkenness. As a result, I haven't had a hangover in decades.Boy, what a fucking chump I was for being concerned in the first place! Overall though, it was a relief to hear the "real thing", of course!No, you're not a chump. Thank you and liv both for your concern about me. I'm sorry to have burdened anyone with concern over my welfare. I maintain that the post of mine you quote above is exactly how I drink most of the time and even then, almost always in social settings and not alone. I admit I drank too much on election night. It was quite out of character for me to A) drink alone and/or B) drink to excess (particularly alone or that fast).

I had already stopped drinking by the time my wife got home from work about 11:00 PM that evening and told me she didn't even know I had been drinking let alone too much, I was that lucid and had already stopped drinking. Within an hour she thought she was going to have to take me to the ER, no doubt because I was finally and dramatically feeling the effects of drinking half a 750 ml bottle of Jack Daniels in about an hour just before she got home. I didn't realize how much I had consumed until I looked at what was left in the bottle the next day.

I didn't have much of a hangover, if any, the next day. I suppose I may have thrown enough of what I drank back up that it prevented a real hangover. I still haven't had a real hangover since that Cuervo 1800 Tequila incident in 1986. I dislike them enough to want to avoid them, and thus seldom ever drink past the point of just feeling a little bit loose. Sorry again to have caused concern.

[livius drusus]

This is only marginally relevant, but it does pertain to the potentially tragic and embarrassing PWI phenomenon.

I think it's more than marginally relevant. First of all, it's a pretty great idea to consolidate what is usually a dispersed phenomenon because as you note, you really can't hide from how creepy it is when it's all together (not that we need one here, mind you; it's not a forum problem I'm describing but a personal one)

Second, it makes me feel somewhat less like a shill for not saying anything. I guess I assume that PWIers read back on themselves with amusement, bashfulness, sometimes even pride. I don't recall seing anyone actually say "damn, I'm kind of a cock when I'm drunk" but that doesn't mean they haven't thought it.

Finally, it reminds me of a whole other angle which I've alluded to above: the horror of watching an approach you once found amusing, charming, even adorable, slowly transmute into relentless, vicious self-abuse.

I'll be specific. There's a guy on SC and JREF called pillory. From everything I've seen, he is a kind, gentle, decent person who posts the single most incomprehensible Confuciusisms I've ever seen. I laughed at his posts on JREF for a year straight, charmed to the core by their random and yet quite profound nature.

What I didn't realize until SC opened and I saw things I had never seen on JREF just because I wasn't really much of a part of that community is that his near constant drinking plays a large part in these posts, and there are times when it seems to me that he is literally killing himself before our very eyes.

But I don't know him. I've never said more than 2 words to him, both of them in appreciation of something that struck me as incredibly wise foolishness. What right do I have to say anything, and to what possible end? There's nothing I can say to fix what's wrong, nothing I can say that will even help in the tiniest bit.

So I don't say anything and I avoid him instead. When I come across posts which a year ago would have made me laugh out loud, now I swallow the lump in my throat and move on to the next post.

[Dragar]

While we're talking all dark and morbid about drinking, allow me to present a little story from my time last year, in university halls. The single name has been replaced by a fictional one, so as not to incriminate anybody.

As I'm sure you know, students are infamous for their drinking habits. While I didn't partake in the standard amount of merry making (being of the quiet, nerdish, bookish sort) a great many did.

'Twas one such dark night, toward the end of term, when a great many people had decided to get drunk at the Hall party. I, meanwhile, had decided to enjoy a good book, and had gone to bed before the hour of eleven.

I awoke to hear a banging on my room door, and the rattling of the handle. A quick glance at the clock radio on the other side of my room showed the time of half past one in the morning, the letters glowing soft and red in the darkness.

"Hello?" I asked the presumed person rattling my door handle. I was suddenly thankful I had locked it before I went to sleep.

From behind the door came a voice that was one third terror chocked, one third sobs and one third frustration, in a tone that varied from whisper to a quiet yell. "Please let me in..."

"Er, no!" I said, my sense of humour never deserting me.

The door handle rattled some more. "Paul! Paul, please let me in...please let me in!" I recalled the student who lived next door to me was named Paul, and pondered if this was a friend of his. Friend or not, I was not letting him in.

"Go away," I said, somewhat forcefully, in the vague hope that this command might find a way through this person's foggy mind.

There was no reply. All fell silent.

I breathed out in relief.

And then there was a bang as the full weight of a human slammed itself against the door. The door handle rattled again, this time even more forcefully, but no longer speaking. There was, I think, some whimpering.

"Go away, or I will call the police," I said, quite serious. I didn't know how strong those hinges were, and I feel no shame admitting I was getting scared.

The door handle rattled some more, before one last thud of the trying to batter down the door. Then all fell silent once again.

A few minutes later, I heard the door next door opening, and a voice - it sounded like Paul's. There was some more faint whimpering, and then the sound of the door closing. I can only assume Paul heard his friend and let him in.

Now, I do not know if this person was drunk, or on a bad trip from some other intoxicant. What I do know is that it made me far more aware that unusual mental states in humans are not things to be laughed at. They can be dangerous, not only for those under the influence, but for those interacting with the intoxicated. While I have never been in such a state or behaved in such a manner (and neither have most of my friends) it certainly made it, for me, a far more serious matter.

[godfry n. glad]

It is most interesting how alcohol tends to release variant beasts from amongst the many locked in our dungeons. I take solace that I become a flirt when inebriated.

This is another reason to drink at home, among friends. I've never been threatened with a hefted billiards stick at home. I have in a tav.

godfry

(...and Paul should've apologized for his boorish friend the next day.)

[godfry n. glad]

So I don't say anything and I avoid him instead. When I come across posts which a year ago would have made me laugh out loud, now I swallow the lump in my throat and move on to the next post.

Y'know, liv, I'm not sure there is much you can do.

We've created a world where people can choose to be anonymous, specifically so they can express things they wouldn't normally to their friends and family. There is a certain safety in that anonymity.

Yet, the community is as broad as those who have access to the internet, so there are bound to be those who are suffering and asking for assistance the only way they know...online. Still, what can you do? You could actually engage the person and assess whether you think that person really needs help. And if you do, what then?

I'd say suggest that the person obtain professional advise and assistance. (Noting, however, that the last time I suggested this, for a person reputed to have the very problem we discuss here, I was banned for doing so. Evidently, it's not nice to suggest such things in public....at IIDB, at least.)

Engaging the person entails risks of various types. But if you're afraid of alienating the person....how's that differ from just walking away and ignoring them? then...don't try to be a savior, only they can save themselves.

It seems you're asking do we, or do we not, intervene? It's your choice.

godfry