The Appeal of Drinking, etc.?

[The Lone Ranger]

This (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1521) thread got me to thinking. I must admit that I've never been able to understand the appeal of imbibing alcohol, marijuana, or any other mind-altering substance.

So, some background that may or may not be relevant. I've never had an alcoholic beverage in my life -- not a beer, not a glass of wine, nothing. I've never tried marijuana, much less any "harder" drug. I've never tried a mind-altering drug of any sort, unless chocolate counts. Heck, I've never even tried a cigarette.


This certainly isn't because of any religious scruples. And while I admit that I don't enjoy the company of those who're drunk or stoned for the most part, I don't think there's anything immoral to using drugs, so long as you don't do anything that endangers the life, health, or property of others while in an impaired state. Note that I'm just as "intolerant" of anyone's "right" to drive while too tired to be capable of operating a vehicle safely as I am of their "right" to drive while too intoxicated to operate a vehicle safely. Either way, it's the irresponsible endangerment of others that I object to, not the drinking or drug use.

In short, my philosophy is that you're free to do whatever the heck you want, so long as you don't endanger others in the process.



My father, whom my relatives universally insist was a kind and gentle man who'd never hurt a fly came back from Viet-Nam as a drunkard, and let's just say that he wasn't very much fun to be around when he was drunk. I have no happy memories of him, and I'm fairly sure that his drinking was a factor in his "accidental" death at the age of 22.

So, that probably explains why I was simply horrified by the thought of ever trying alcohol when young. By the time I was in my teens though, I'd realized that one beer or glass of wine or cigarette wasn't going to turn me into either a monster or an addict.

There were lots of occasions in high school and college where I was offered a smoke or a beer or some "weed." Every such occasion made me feel not offended (I'd thank the person in question, and politely refuse) but confused. I was (and, I suppose, still am) utterly unable to understand why anyone would want to be drunk, or to smoke a cigarette, or to indulge in any other such activity.

I had numerous conversations in high school and college that went something like this:
Friend: "Here, have a smoke/beer/whatever."
Me: "No thanks."
Friend: "Why not?"
Me: "That stuff's not good for you."
Friend: "So?"
Me: "What do you mean, 'So'? Isn't that sufficient reason?"
Friend: "But 'everybody' does it."
Me: "So?"


I understand that many people feel that a glass of wine or a beer, or even a cigarette is relaxing. I have no reason to think they're lying. So, I can understand why someone would want to drink or smoke for that reason, even if I never felt any need to seek chemical help in order to relax. Why on earth anyone would ever want to be drunk is something that I've never been able to fathom, though. Not once in my life have I seen someone who was clearly intoxicated and thought to myself, "boy, that looks like fun!".



Anyway, I hasten to remind everyone that I have no feelings of "superiority" because I've never indulged in such things, nor do I think there's anything at all immoral about such indulgence. Once you pick up the habit, I can certainly understand why it would be difficult to stop, but if it's not too obviously stupid a question on my part: What on Earth would make a person want to start smoking or drinking in the first place? I honestly don't know.

:eh?:

Michael

[wade-w]

One major reason many people drink or take other mind altering substances, Michael, is to escape from reality for a while. From what you said above I suspect this may have been your father's motivation, at least in part. If your life utterly sucks, and you can see no way out of it, getting drunk or stoned can make it bearable for a few hours. Of course, this solves nothing and brings it's own set of problems with it, on top of those already present.

Not that escapism is behind everyone's decision to indulge; it was a major factor in my own history of over indulging in alcohol and just about every other drug available at one time or other. I no longer do that, though when I can afford it (very rarely these days) I like a good beer or glass of wine occasionally with a meal. Never enough to get even tipsy though, and it's been over ten years now since I got drunk. Life still sucks though.

[The Lone Ranger]

Escapism makes as much sense as anything. I have little doubt that was what got my father started.

Cheers,

Michael

[Godless Wonder]

Drinking has different effects on different people. You mention your dad, and say you didn't like the effect that it had on him, without really saying just what that effect was.

I know some people can become belligerent assholes, itching for a fight when drunk. Other people (like me, and my dad, as it happens) seem to become sweeter and nicer. Once my mom told me that I should stay drunk all the time (she wasn't really serious, of course) because it makes me sweeter, nicer, and generally just more fun than my sober self. I generally have a better time if I'm a little bit drunk than if I'm sober in social situations. "In vino veritas," generally means people are more apt to say what they really mean under the influence of alcohol. But more than this, people (for example, me) are more apt to say something, anything at all, under the influence of alcohol, which is loads better than sitting there saying nothing, if your aim is to have a fun time.

Trying to describe my experience with alcohol.... It's almost as if there's a subconscious censor in my brain that's shutting down thoughts before I'm even aware of them, and when I drink, that censor gets a little sleepy, and those thoughts get to bubble up and come to the front of my brain, and many more of them actually come out of my mouth. It makes me talk more, and normally, I don't talk nearly enough.

It also seems to make other people more interesting.

All the above is of course the good bits. Alcohol does have its downsides. Hangovers, lack of coordination, sleepiness, bad reflexes, vomiting, etc. being among them. (Of course if you're vomiting, you're way past the point of enhancing a good time.)

[RevDahlia]

MFK Fisher (who drank like a fish, if "The Gastronomical Me" is any indication) draws a distinction between drinking for pleasure and drinking "to drown a worm in the brain". Of course the worm-drowners usually claim they are doing no such thing, until they go into recovery.

Drinking is a skill, and if you're good at it can be quite enjoyable. Godless Wonder's description of the effects on one's mental output is spot-on. A moderate amount of booze can make you feel pretty wonderful, physically and mentally; you just gotta know why you're doing it and when to stop.

One can live a full and happy life without ever touching a drop. But putting aside the intoxicating effects for a minute, certain types of alcohol can be a really rewarding gustatory experience, even if you don't consume nearly enough to get drunk. A glass of really killer wine or cognac or Scotch simply tastes out of this world. That may seem a small thing if you've seen your friends staggering around and urinating in inappropriate places after too many Long Island iced teas, but there you have it -- a worthy reason to take a drink ocassionally. At least I think so, but I'm kind of obsessed with flavor in all forms and realize that others may not be.

[Godless Dave]

First off, I'd like to thank you for taking pains to phrase the question in a non-judgmental way. It sucks that other people would question why you don't drink, but teens and young adults tend to be like that.

The best way I can explain it is that it can be fun, just like riding a rollercoaster can be fun. Note I said "can be". It isn't always fun, and the closer you get to abuse or binge levels the less likely it is to be fun. And for some people it isn't fun at all - just as some people don't enjoy rollercoasters.

For me I enjoy the feeling of relaxation (I'm very tense by nature) and the loosening of the tongue that Godless Wonder mentioned. Naturally in larger doses these benefits can (and have, in my case) become problems.

Of course there are other issues besides fun involved. Abuse of alcohol can cause all kinds of health problems and the relaxing of inhibitions can result in people engaging in self-destructive, violent, and/or antisocial behavior.

[livius drusus]

The main appeal of marijuana for me is the giggles. I love being with friends laughing til we cry over something silly. Second is the relaxation that others have mentioned.

I love the audio-visual experience of a moderate level mushroom trip, the absolutely unique feeling of being able to unburden myself without having to force my jaw open when on MDMA, and once in a very, very great while, getting dizzy as hell and twice as obnoxious on alcohol.

I'm on the weed wagon right now -- I like it too much, if you know what I mean, and I can't live my life high -- and I done any other drugs (including alcohol to excess) in a long time, but I'm with RevDahlia on the gustatory magnificence of the perfect glass of wine with dinner or a fine Sambuca afterwards.

[LadyShea]

This will be sorta rambly, I have a long history with various mind alterers. I consider myself a recreational and experiential drug user in that I do it for fun and for the "why not alter my perception for a short time and see what it's like".

The first time I drank alcohol, I had just enough to get a nice buzz and I distinctly remember not wanting to go to sleep because I felt so good. Alcohol, for me, allowed me to let go of my uptight, socially restricted self (I really was a stick-up-my-ass princess for much of my life) and be me. It loosened the stick and I could let my hair down. Of course, alcohol is an imprecise thing and sometimes I overimbibed.

I have never much liked pot. It makes me paranoid. I like cocaine, especially mixed with alcohol. It sorta counteracts the booze and keeps you in the "nice buzz" place. I tried mushrooms once and acid once, and I don't really care for either of them. The visuals were fun for an hour or so, but with both of them the experience continued beyond the point where I was "done" with the trip yet I couldn't sleep. I didn't like that.

Speed is a nasty thing and I got to a point where I had to keep doing it to avoid a crash so I could work...I wasn't having fun anymore. So I took a week off work, slept it off and never touched the stuff again. That was 16 years ago or so.

Now MDMA. I love ecstasy. I love the tactileness. It feels amazing just to put chapstick on and rub your lips together or wash your hands. It feels amazing to pet a dog, stand in the rain, hug, kiss or touch pretty much anything. Then you also have this feeling of connectedness and enhanced intimacy and empathy with people and yourself (once through some misunderstanding of when we were going to take it, I rolled alone. I just laid there with my own thoughts and feelings and talked to my dog a bit and really enjoyed that too). You tell people how much you love and appreciate them. This can be inappropriate in a club atmosphere with strangers, but really wonderful with loved ones, which is why we usually rolled at home. It is also remembered the next day unlike alcohol where things become fuzzy.

Also, the drug itself works differently than other drugs...it releases all the stored seratonin, so the "high" is actually just the affects of the seratonin, not the affects of the drug. Other drugs act on the brain sort of continually while they are in the system. If everyone understood this, they wouldn't try to do X two days in a row or abuse it, because it doesn't work until your brain is able to rebuild the seratonin supply. This is why abusers can become depressed.

They have just okayed a study of using it with terminal patients, to facilitate them expressing their fears and feelings about their impending deaths with their families which could be a great and beneficial use of it. Prior to it's becoming illegal, it was used in marriage counseling and other psychotherapy. It definitely has beneficial aspects.

[viscousmemories]

I can't remember if I was turned on to pot or alcohol first, but I think it was pot. In either case I know I was doing both somewhat habitually (as much as possible given limited resources) at age 13.

The first time I remember getting drunk was from sharing a pint of Bacardi with a pot dealer. I remember he had a stack of one dollar bills from selling joints all day (yes they were $1.00 each back then, kiddos), so after we got loaded we went to a 24 hour restaurant and ate nachos, after which we went to an apartment building across the street and crashed out in the hallway.

I was awakened by the sound of cops entering the hallway of the building from the front and rear doors simultaneously. They hustled us out and asked us a bunch of questions, one of them making a point of asking me if I intended to model my life after Ozzy Ozbourne, indicating my Diary of a Madman t-shirt.

After they let us go we went to the arcade to play some video games, and another cop found me there and told me my Mother had called in a missing persons report. He was a motorcycle cop so he called a squad car to take me home. Once home I got into a fight with my older brother (typical) and threatened him with a butcher knife.

He disarmed me and threw me onto a chair, but my Mom's screaming got him off me before he could do any damage. I stormed out of the house, happy for the excuse to go back to the arcade. About a mile down the road I was stopped by more cops, and arrested on felonious assault charges. It seems my Mom had freaked and reported that I had pulled a knife on my brother.

I spent the weekend in juvenile detention, and so went my first experience with drunkeness.

Now, did that deter me from drinking? Not at all. On the contrary, what stood out about that entire experience was how incredibly good it felt to be drunk. I was a very gentle spirited kid (when I wasn't trying to carve up my brother), but poor, naive and from a highly dysfunctional family.

So for the first time ever I was able to find out what it feels like to replace all my fear, lonliness and guilt with warmth, confidence and giddy, euphoric happiness. I got the same from pot, and even more from LSD (which I'll probably talk at more length about elsewhere, since it really is in a league all its own). So anyway yeah, that's what I got from drinking and smoking pot.

But I never thought of it as escapism because I hardly valued life without it. Even now -- despite being much more emotionally stable and not having consumed any mind or mood altering substances for a couple years -- I can't imagine experiencing euphoric pleasure of the variety drugs and alcohol provide. But I can't safely imbibe, really. I'm just far too easily addicted and the consequences (social and economic) are just more than I can deal with anymore.

[RevDahlia]

Alcohol affects different people radically differently, and vm, you sound like one of those folks who has a physical problem metabolizing alcohol. All that after a half-pint of rum? Even for a 13-year-old, that's pretty heavy.

The first time I got drunk was when I was 17 and living in Italy. I'd been drinking, European-kid style, since I was about eleven -- glasses of wine with dinner, the occasional finger of whiskey, etc, and since I'd never been drunk I naively figured that I had some kind of superhuman tolerance (despite weighing a whole 105 pounds.) The first week I was in Milan I went out with some of the girls from my residence, and we all started knocking back capirinhas -- an extremely delicious, extremely potent cocktail made with Brazilian sugarcane liqueur. I had about three in quick succession, and remember thinking through a fog of cachaca fumes "Holy shit. I'm drunk." And I was. It was fun. Nothing bad happened. While I was over there I somehow managed to consume stupefying amounts of alcohol without ever getting the bedspins or the whoopsies, and I never had a hangover.

I only started running into trouble a couple years later, when I was cruelly depressed and lonely and embarked on a worm-drowning project which involved half a fifth of bourbon every night and hangovers that made me feel like I was pinned to my bed by centrifugal force. I am astounded that I managed to avoid destroying my liver. After I got help for my depression my drinking subsided to manageable levels. I still like getting wrecked occasionally, but it feels totally different; the obsessive fascination is gone. Depressed individuals should not drink.

Ah, Shea...
Now MDMA. I love ecstasy.
I'll spare y'all the fourteen paragraphs I could generate on this subject. It is enough to say me too. Ecstasy is a fantastic drug -- if you get good stuff, and I've only been beat a couple of times. I likes me the happy pills, once a year or so.

[viscousmemories]

Alcohol affects different people radically differently, and vm, you sound like one of those folks who has a physical problem metabolizing alcohol. All that after a half-pint of rum? Even for a 13-year-old, that's pretty heavy.
Well now that you mention it I was hanging out with a pot dealer. Odds are pretty good there was some smoking down involved too. My worst drug experiences have been with pot, actually, either because I mixed it with massive alcohol consumption or because it was laced. But yeah, I was worm drowning (nice expression, btw) most of my life. There was a stretch when I was 16 where I was crashed out at this girls apartment for about a week, just drinking liquor until I passed out then waking up and starting over... good times.

[Dragar]

Reading this thread, my suspicions I have lived a sheltered life are confirmed beyond my wildest dreams.

[Clutch Munny]

Don't care for weed, myself... like Lady Shea it makes me a bit paranoid, but it also feels a bit too, I dunno, uncontrolled. Did it a lot in high school, but then just realized I didn't like it. Sometimes smoked weed that had been touched up with this or that, but usually just plain 'jane.

Mushrooms, mostly thumbs up -- I just found the experience interesting and fun and usually very giggly. But I haven't done any for years, mostly for want of any context where it would be appropriate or desirable.

Stuff I've never tried: Cocaine. MDMA. Crystal meth. The former because I could never afford it in my youth (I suspect that young women get offered rather more expensive dope for free than do young (straight) guys), and I just haven't felt the urge to experiment with it as a non-youth. In fact, that's true of most drugs: Considering the known addictiveness of coke and crank, and knowing a fair bit about the neurological and emotional effects of heavy Ecstacy use, I've just judged it not to be worth trying.

For exactly the same reasons, I have never gambled in a casino. I've played poker for a few bucks with friends, but here's the thing: Some people are very susceptible to addiction -- to one illegal drug or another, to gambling, to alcohol. For all I know, I'm one of those people. If I could save someone's life or reduce poverty or improve public schools by trying any of these things, it would be worth the risk, but an evening of fun is not.

I began using alcohol at a young and unreflective age, and discovered (after some flirtation with a problem) that I can easily control my use of it. I do not know this about myself when it comes to gambling or other addictive drugs. So, since my life is already bursting with fun things I like to do -- including having a drink or three from time to time -- I don't see a payoff worth the potential risk of trying something that might get a real grip on me. This is particularly true because my family depends on my being even-keeled and employed; I wouldn't feel right about saying, as I might say if only my interests were at stake: Let's roll the dice, and if I get fucked up for a week or so, or if I get arrested, then so be it.

Hopefully folks here know me well enough to know that I'm not judging anyone whose habits differ from mine; if anything, I'm sketching how my behaviour traces from reasoning about my situation. Like Michael, I'm mostly happy to let others follow their own best judgement about their own situations, to the exclusion of harm to me or mine.

[Farren]

My drug reactions are mostly the same as Ladyshea's. Alcohol loosens me up. Grass makes me paranoid (socially paranoid, that is, not fearful of the police or anything). Coke just keeps me awake and I can't honestly see the appeal. In my youth hallucinagens like mushrooms and LSD felt like they were consciousness changing, now they make me terribly uncomfortable in my own skin. Ecstacy... well... I've had wayyy to much Ecstacy and enjoyed it wayyyy too much.

I've got an obsessive personality in the sense that I overdo anything I like a lot. Reviewing the progress of my life I realise that I would have been far better off in some ways if I'd never touched a drug. I was a nerdy, intense teenager who was obsessed with computers and was able to write entire computer games in three or four days because I would focus on nothing else, including eating and sleeping, at times. I once programmed for three consecutive days without either luxury then slept for 32 hours. Unfortunately many of my drug experiences reflected the same obsessive-compulsiveness.

I've overdone alcohol, grass and ecstacy at various times in my life. I can't say I've ever overdone hallucinagenics like shrooms and Acid, because of the nature of the substances. Neither did my brief dalliance with coke become a habit.

Why do it? I don't recall ever doing it because of peer pressure (aside from cigarettes, which I actually did start smoking to fit in with a girl). I had a romantic view of drugs and had read a lot of the drug inspired literature and non-fiction by my late teens. Growing up under Apartheid and learning to hate it and harbour massive doubts about all of the traditions and the moral authority behind it, I was full of doubt about all of the good life practices I'd been taught, because my view of authority figures was irreparably tainted. I honestly believed all the stuff about consciousness expansion and actually acquiring meaning from drugs.

In this role I do believe they actually did fulfil some of their potential and would have had a net beneficial effect had I not overindulged so damn much. I've often wondered how different it would have turned out had I been raised in a moral atmosphere where drugs were not taboo and there was plenty of open, honest, discussion of their uses and dangers instead of hysterical, factually unfounded and ludicrous messages equating marijuana, f'rinstance, to heroin.

My LSD experiences were without a doubt consciousness-expanding. I had the more than one extraordinary experience on LSD. The most vivid went as follows. One night, everyone in the commune I lived in was either out or in bed and I tripped alone. I had been struggling to learn guitar (due to a surfeit of enthusiasm but a deficit of discipline) for a year. I knew a lot of chord shapes and some theory but rhythm has never come easily to me and I couldn't play even a verse from any of the tunes I'd been shown

On the night in question I was hammering away with my normal grim determination out in the garden at "House of the Rising Sun" as the acid was kicking in. Something extraordinary happened. I was completely oblivious to the outside world. When the acid kicked in the actual awkwardness, self doubt and so on that normally attended guitar playing melted away. Every note sounded just fine. My normally ever-intefering forebrain just relinquished the control of my strumming hand to the lizard brain. An hour or two later I was strumming something I'd never heard before, muttering-singing nonsensical lyrics that were slowly evolving into something meaningful.

My intellect seemed at a distance to everything, quite rational and as this magical process was happening it tweaked the Ur-speech coming out of my mouth until I had a verse, then a bridge, then a chorus and finally a whole song, comfortably and rhythmically played. I played that song all night long.

When my girlfriend woke up I was still tripping and I excitedly played it to her and one of our fellow commune-dwellers (neither of whom had partaken of anything the previous night). They were as amazed as I. I couldn't hold a rhythm for a bar normally and here I was confidently strumming and singing a new song in perfect time.

When I finally went to sleep and woke up again I couldn't play the song. In hindsight, the sensation that night was of completely dissolving the conscious boundary that considered myself, the guitar and even the sound coming out of both as seperate entities. I experienced a sensation of complete oneness. The guitar and even the song were and extension of myself. Me/the guitar/the song were a single, complex waveform which had simply tuned itself by feedback then settled into the desired state.

That experience alone had an extraordinary effect on my thinking. When I became more exposed to Buddhist and Taoist ideas, their insights about the illusory nature of ego and our own boundaries, the fact that many of our boundaries are self imposed and that a beginners mind is a most adaptable thing, found fertile soil in a mind prepared by LSD experiences.

[Goliath]

I've never smoked (took a drag off of a cigarette once when I was 12 or 13 just to see what it was like and swore that I'd never do that again), although I was around a lot of second-hand smoke as a kid.

I'm also relatively boring in that my first time getting drunk was on my 21st birthday. Like for many others here, alcohol tends to make me loosen up and relax a bit. I usually only drink when I'm with friends (I think I've drank alone maybe 3 or 4 times), and almost never more than one or two drinks. In fact, when we're at restaraunts (which usually means that I've driven them there), I make a point of only drinking one, maybe two drinks (and If I drink 2, I make a point out of waiting for awhile after the 2nd drink is done).

Other than alcohol (and caffiene), the only other drug that I tried was cough syrup. One of my friends used to do cough syrup on a regular basis (but stopped years ago), and one night he talked me into it. About 25 minutes after taking the 'tussin (as it is referred to in the vernacular), I started feeling this...weird buzz...different from alcohol, but I'm not sure how te explain it (and I didn't have it for long enough to explain).

However, what I wasn't told was that Robitussin has castor oil in it, and....well...... :vomit:

As for pot, mushrooms, etc., my reasons for not trying those have prettymuch been covered by Clutch: I don't want to take too many chances and find myself addicted to something.

[Farren]

I don't think it's actually possible to get addicted to LSD, 'shrooms and the like. Hallucinagens generally aren't habit-forming. Pot and Ecstacy sure. I think the distinction between habit-forming and addictive should also be stressed, though.

While not, in my understanding, clearly medically delineated, most drug users will testify that there's a vast difference between drugs like pot and drugs like crack. Having known users of both and read a fair amount of the academic literature I can say this with confidence. The majority of users of the former won't completely screw up their lives for the substance, while the majority of regular users of the latter won't stop till everything, including health and intellect, are near obliterated.

And believe me, anyone who can moderate their drinking isn't gonna have a serious problem with pot. Alcohol is far and away the more risky proposition.

[The Lone Ranger]

Thank you for the replies! It’s a subject that has genuinely puzzled me for some time, but I’ve never seriously discussed it with anyone. In my experience, most people either find it incomprehensible that a “normal” person would choose not to imbibe and so want to “convert” me, or they get defensive because they assume that an abstainer must either be on some sort of moral crusade or has been “deeply scarred” in some way. Either way, it can make for difficult conversation.

Drinking has different effects on different people. You mention your dad, and say you didn't like the effect that it had on him, without really saying just what that effect was.
He was what they call a “mean drunk.” Sadly, I have few memories of him when he was not drunk, and he could be downright violent while under the influence. I’ve always figured that he had been using the alcohol as an escape from whatever happened to him during the war. I suppose I’ll never really know, though.

As you can imagine, though, that experience made me determined from a very young age never to find out what I’d be like drunk. As I grew older, I lost my fear of alcohol, but I’ve never had any urge to try it or any such other substances, either.

Trying to describe my experience with alcohol.... It's almost as if there's a subconscious censor in my brain that's shutting down thoughts before I'm even aware of them, and when I drink, that censor gets a little sleepy, and those thoughts get to bubble up and come to the front of my brain, and many more of them actually come out of my mouth. It makes me talk more, and normally, I don't talk nearly enough.
That’s quite interesting. I have an artistic friend who insists that she’s at her most creative while under the influence of marijuana. There might well be something to that.


MFK Fisher (who drank like a fish, if "The Gastronomical Me" is any indication) draws a distinction between drinking for pleasure and drinking "to drown a worm in the brain".
Good point. I’ve certainly attended several parties and other such events where people were drinking beer, wine, or whatever simply because they enjoyed it, and had no intention of getting more than buzzed, if that. It’s quite a different experience from being in the company of those who’re drinking for the express purpose of getting drunk.



The best way I can explain it is that it can be fun, just like riding a rollercoaster can be fun. Note I said "can be". It isn't always fun, and the closer you get to abuse or binge levels the less likely it is to be fun. And for some people it isn't fun at all - just as some people don't enjoy rollercoasters.
I think that’s me. It’s not that I have anything against drinking, smoking, or anything like that; it just doesn’t appeal to me in any way.



But I can't safely imbibe, really. I'm just far too easily addicted and the consequences (social and economic) are just more than I can deal with anymore.
Of course, I don’t know if that’d be true in my case, but given my memories of my father, I’m sure that I’ve always had a nagging fear that it might be the case. That’s probably one reason why I’ve never been tempted to try any sort of mind-altering substance.


Reading this thread, my suspicions I have lived a sheltered life are confirmed beyond my wildest dreams.
You and me both!



For exactly the same reasons, I have never gambled in a casino. I've played poker for a few bucks with friends, but here's the thing: Some people are very susceptible to addiction -- to one illegal drug or another, to gambling, to alcohol. For all I know, I'm one of those people. If I could save someone's life or reduce poverty or improve public schools by trying any of these things, it would be worth the risk, but an evening of fun is not.
I probably wouldn’t have thought to make that connection, but I think that you have a good point here. I’ve never been at all tempted to try gambling of any sort, and for the same reason perhaps – the nagging feeling that I might like it a little too much for my own good. A few years ago, I spent some time in Reno, and when I got back, my mother (who is a borderline gambling addict, in my opinion) asked me how many casinos I’d visited. I replied, “none.” She seemed genuinely surprised that I would go there and not gamble, but I was genuinely confused as to why she thought I would want to. It seemed so obvious to me: the chances of recouping your investment are so remote that it just wouldn’t be a worthwhile or wise thing to do.


So, since my life is already bursting with fun things I like to do -- including having a drink or three from time to time -- I don't see a payoff worth the potential risk of trying something that might get a real grip on me.
Perhaps a drink or two would help me “loosen up” at social gatherings, but then, I genuinely enjoy my life, and I’ve never felt the need to escape from it, nor do I feel any urge to seek chemical help in order to relax or “loosen up.” That’s probably a big reason why I’ve never been interested in trying any sort of mind-altering substances.

On the other hand, I enjoy the physical and mental results of a good workout -- and of meditation. Perhaps my enjoyment of the martial arts is similar to the enjoyment many people derive from a glass of wine.

I play the flute, and when I’m really “into it” I can almost “lose myself” in the music. I wonder if that’s not a related phenomenon?


And believe me, anyone who can moderate their drinking isn't gonna have a serious problem with pot. Alcohol is far and away the more risky proposition.
Everything I’ve ever read suggests that alcohol is far more dangerous than is marijuana. Yet marijuana is illegal and alcohol is not. One important difference, I suppose, is that the alcohol industry has lots of political influence while the marijuana “industry” does not. I’ve always seen that as an important indicator of the hypocritical nature of the “war on drugs.” That's one of the reasons that I've long suspected that the rational thing to do would be to simply legalize most "recreational" drugs and regulate their use in the same way that we regulate the use of alcohol.


Anyway, thanks for all the replies and insights!

Cheers,

Michael

[viscousmemories]

I’ve never been at all tempted to try gambling of any sort, and for the same reason perhaps – the nagging feeling that I might like it a little too much for my own good.
Y'know ironically (given my life story) I've never done cocaine or heroin for the same reason. But I've never had a problem with gambling. The trick is to decide how much you're willing to lose, and just look at it as the cost of the night out. If you've ever sprung a couple hundred bucks on a nice meal in a restaurant, why not in an evening (or an hour, as the case may be :D ) of gambling? I mean assuming you have any interest in it at all.

[The Lone Ranger]

Y'know ironically (given my life story) I've never done cocaine or heroin for the same reason. But I've never had a problem with gambling. The trick is to decide how much you're willing to lose, and just look at it as the cost of the night out. If you've ever sprung a couple hundred bucks on a nice meal in a restaurant, why not in an evening (or an hour, as the case may be :D ) of gambling? I mean assuming you have any interest in it at all.

When I was younger, I was very definitely fearful that I might find myself addicted to something -- alcohol, cigarettes, whatever -- if I ever tried it. I've learned enough of myself as I've gotten older to realize that I actually have very good self-control, so I'm not worried about that anymore, at least not consciously (who knows what leftover childhood fears might be lurking below the surface?).

So, I have no real doubt that I could and would set a limit and stick to it if I were to ever try gambling. It doesn't have any appeal to me whatsoever, though; it strikes me as a waste of time and money that I could be spending much more enjoyably in other pursuits.


Cheers,

Michael

[viscousmemories]

It doesn't have any appeal to me whatsoever, though; it strikes me as a waste of time and money that I could be spending much more enjoyably in other pursuits.
Well when you put it that way, I'm sure you're right. For me the thrill of possibly coming into "free" money is exciting enough to make it interesting. But yeah, I'm sure you get a similar and much more satisfying rush from your other interests. :yup:

[Godless Dave]

That’s quite interesting. I have an artistic friend who insists that she’s at her most creative while under the influence of marijuana. There might well be something to that.

In my experience, marijuana used sparingly can stimulate creativity, but moderate to heavy use has the opposite effect, it dulls cognition so much it's hard to come up with new ideas or even remember old ones.

[Kilted_Canuck]

For the record, I'm 18, in a province between the only two in Canada where 18 is the drinking age. ;) But i'm one of the few people of my generation that don't give a crap about alcohol. My friends never did either until a pre-grad party last year when they first tried alcohol, and since then they've drank almost every single weekend.

Now to me, who really is impartial to drinking, and way too cautious. I like drinking, but everytime i get mildly drunk i feel guilty after, because i really feel uncomfortable seeing myself start to act more and more inhibrated. I prefer having a few drinks to loosen up but thats it. My friend's say I'm too responsible and i just have to let the alcohol take over..but i hate not being in control and i know that I'm just as responsible for my actions drunk or not, so i'd prefer to be sober.

Any other drugs are a no-go for me, but I don't care if other people do...in fact, sometimes its just as amusing to see other people on them as it would be to do them.

[Ensign Steve]

Taste, taste, taste. When I drink a glass of Chardonnay, my drink of choice, I savor every sip. I hold the wine in my mouth and move the tip of my tongue through the liquid. The tip being the home of the 'sweet' sensors. It is feels erotic the way I move my tongue through the liquid enjoying the taste and the way it changes from cold to warm. I don't do that with Pepsi, I tell you what.

[Ensign Steve]

What I could really fucking use right now is a cigarette. I quit 4 days ago, yay me. GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lauri D]

Congrats in quitting, JD - may The Force be with you :yup2:

My experiences with consuming alcohol - or, shall we say, overconsuming :blush: - have almost exclusively revolved around periods of depression and/or anxiety, as others have already related. Before my marriage began to unravel a couple years ago, I drank so little that although I went out to bars and clubs with friends all the time, the local bartenders jokingly referred to me as the "Diet Coke Girl". My enjoyment of alcoholic beverages was, for me, "as it should be" - a nice glass or two of wine with a meal, ice-cold beer or margaritas poolside on a hot summer day; not drinking to get drunk. Before about the age of 29 I was probably only truly drunk less than a handful of times, primarily on account of those dangerous fruity-type drinks that end up having a much higher alcohol content than ya thought :colors:

But anyway, so... divorce. "Darkness falls, bad things happen" - John LaRoche, "Adaptation". (... can I add that to the quote thingie here?) That pretty much sums it up. The past few years have been something of a lather-rinse-repeat cycle, with relatively large chunks of time in between during which I've been happy and feeling good, during which drinking too much once again loses its appeal. Some habits die hard, though, even relatively-recently acquired ones, so (temporarily) alleviating high anxieties with alcohol is still a temptation. I'm finding new ways to relax, though, which don't involve waking up with fur-tongue the next morning, so I'm going to keep working on improving those skills until such a time as a glass of wine is just a glass of wine and not a means of numbing the pain.

RevDahlia's simple statement above summed it up quite well IMO. "Depressed people shouldn't drink".

[Weaselboots]

I probably drink too much at times. Its easy to open that extra bottle of wine with friends, or have a couple extra beers. I barely drunk when i was younger, so age doesn't make you smarter in some respects.

I'm not good with smoking pot, never seems to do anything exept make my lungs explode. On New Years went to friends house, Rob was sick so he was driver. I had 1 and a half hash cookies, and some red wine. I got pretty giggly and felt pretty good. Being stoned is still a novelty, part of me could sit back and be objective about what i was feeling, the rest of me laughed alot.
When we were leaving i was stuffing my face and the food table,
Rob says " come on i'm feeling ill can we go now"
"Ok give me a minute i'm hungry"
"Yeah that because you are stoned and have the munchies"
"Nah, just hungry"
"No you have the munchies"
"No hungry"
"Munchies"
" Ahhhh yeah i'm stoned and have the munchies" :popcorn:

Filled a napkin up with food and babbled about being stoned and having the munchies on the way home. It was a funny experience. Hash cookies the way to go.

[godfry n. glad]

I was weaned on alcohol in the bosom of my family before I came to legal age. I was 17 and drank too much vodka at a family party. I learned to control my intake and it has never again been a problem in my life. I can take or leave alcohol. It does best with a couple of stiff drinks to loosen my inhibitions at the beginning of social occasions. For me, it reduces my initial shyness in such social situations.

I took up smoking at 17, too. I actually started smoking pipe tobacco to cover up the smell of plain 'jane. From there I went to cigarettes by the time I entered college. I smoked tobacco cigarettes for 25 years...up to two packs a day when I quit eight years ago.

My intoxicant of choice is cannabis. Most of my life, it has cost me too much to enjoy it very often. It relaxes me; mellows me out. I used to get the giggles, but don't much anymore. I still get the munchies and my physique shows it. Too much coughing for my taste, though. I haven't had much luck with eating cannabis, brownies or whatever, though. It just doesn't do it for me. Inhalation therapy is the way to go.

During my much younger years, mescaline was the alteration of choice. I passed. LSD and other psychotropic drugs didn't really tempt me. I had a family history of mental instability; I wasn't taking any chances. I did have a connection to hospital grade cocaine, but after trying it twice, I couldn't believe people were paying that kind of money to anesthetize the back of their throat. That's all it did for me. Heroin never tempted me, either...fear of needles. I did get a chance to smoke some opium once, and I can tell you that's a waste of time...it's like being paralyzed for four hours. Once, I was convinced to try what were called 'shrooms. Those were fun. I got a distinct buzz and sat around a campfire most of the day, whittling, while my friends went off to film a raft trip in a stream with too little water (they, of course, had some, too).

I've never been near any kind of crank, crack, DMSO, MDMA, xquizit, LSMFT, JATO, speed, 'luudes, or any of that other stuff.

Alcohol can loosen inhibitions and stimulate me to start and continue conversations. It is a mood enhancer, though, so when I'm feeling down, it's no good drinking alcohol. It's not only a mood enhancer, it's a depressant and generally makes my mindset worse. Cannabis is a mood enhancer, too. It's not a depressant, though. Intoxicating with cannabis when one is depressed will bring almost all productive activity to a complete halt. Not worse....Complete stall will be induced.

godfry