What Articles Would You Like to Read?

[The Lone Ranger]

It occurs to me that there are plenty of smart, well-educated people here. I'm sure I'm not the only one who likes to learn new things from those who understand the subject matter well, and who can explain it in easy-to-understand language to those of us who don't know the subject well. Livius has set quite a high bar with her fascinating and informative article.

So, with that in mind, I think it would be an excellent idea if people made suggestions about articles they'd like to see. What sort of question keeps you awake at night? Do you lie awake at night wondering about the nature of black holes? Are you really dying to know all about how an internal combustion engine works?

My thinking was that if people made suggestions about topics they'd like to see written up, anyone who feels qualified could pick a topic or two and run with it. Also, if there's a field that you feel qualified to write about, mention it -- that way, people can gain a good idea of what sorts of questions might be good to ask.


So, I'll start.

I'm a biologist by training. I'm mostly trained in the fields of ecology, animal behavior (ethology), evolutionary theory, and physiology. Throw in a fair amount of physics and some chemistry, and some astronomy as well. Of course, given the time, I'll happily research and write about just-about anything.

So, what sorts of questions would you like to see addressed? And what sorts of questions do you think you'd be good at addressing?

Cheers,

Michael

[dave_a]

Personally I would like to see a political article examining the philosophies of the major and minor parties in the US. Coupling these political philosophies with the underlying general philosophies (all aspects of the philosophical system) would be nice.

[Petra]

Hello, Michael. :)

I'd love to read an article about the history and philosophy behind the martial arts you practice. :yup:

Cheers.

[viscousmemories]

And luna, you could write an article about NZ. :)

I'm not an expert in anything, really. I know a fair amount about computer networking and Internet technologies, but not nearly as much as others.

[Petra]

And luna, you could write an article about NZ. :)Ahh, hell, man. I already bored myself writing a couple of short entries in the journal thing. A whole article would be a real snore for all concerned.

I'm not an expert in anything, really. I know a fair amount...[]... but not nearly as much as others. That sums me up to a tee. I know a little of everything, and a whole lot of nothing.

[viscousmemories]

Ahh, hell, man. I already bored myself writing a couple of short entries in the journal thing. A whole article would be a real snore for all concerned.
But I liked your journal entries. I followed the links and everything, and I can honestly say I probably saw more of NZ than ever previously as a result. You don't have to write a novel or anything, but just a short article about NZ life with embedded pictures of the flora and fauna... I think it would be great. :yup:

[Goliath]

Well, I'm a mathematician, so if anyone has questions of mathematical interest, I can do my best to write an article to answer it.

[dave_a]

Well, I'm a mathematician, so if anyone has questions of mathematical interest, I can do my best to write an article to answer it.

OK, please prove or disprove the existence of god(s) in a mathmatical formula with explanations for dummies like me. :P

[Goliath]

Sorry, I'm a weak atheist. :D

[dave_a]

Sorry, I'm a weak atheist. :D

Well say that mathematically :cool:

[Goliath]

Ummm...well, I did. A weak atheist is defined as a person who does not believe that any gods exist. I am a weak atheist.

[dave_a]

Ummm...well, I did. A weak atheist is defined as a person who does not believe that any gods exist. I am a weak atheist.

Yeah, but that's not mathematical. I too am a weak atheist. But shouldn't that be expressed like 1+1=2(I think, but I could be wrong)? :D


editted to add: I am changing the thingy under my username from "what a pisser" which livius commanded me to adopt to "it's a fucking joke" so people better understand I am rarely, if ever, serious. Life is too short for that shit.

[Goliath]

lol..contrary to what you think, mathematics is not all numbers and formulae.

[dave_a]

lol..contrary to what you think, mathematics is not all numbers and formulae.

Well that strikes me as an excellent subject for an article because to my mind mathematics is *all* about numbers and formulas. I am confident I am not the only one with this impression so a corrective article would be welcome.

I mean seriously it would make me look really cool and smart if I could say "mathematics is not all numbers and formulae" and be able to back it up by plagurising your article.

Give a brotha a bone, homey!

[Goliath]

Hmmm, that's a good idea for an article, although it wouldn't be an easy thing to write... It'll take me some time, but I'll do it.

[Goliath]

Hmmm, can files be uploaded to articles? What are the size limits? I ask because I'll probably have to make and attach some pdf files, since there is no LaTeX support in this board software.

[livius drusus]

I can very honestly say that I love every single idea posted in this thread: from The Lone Ranger's black holes and combustion engines to dantonac's political history to luna's martial arts background to vm's NZ and computers to dantonac's math as other than numbers and forumulae. They all sound absolutely fascinating to me.

Goliath, articles do allow attachments using the same limits as the forum. Here's a list (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/faq.php?faq=faq_freethoughtforum#faq_vb_attachment_explain) of the current settings. If you think your pdf files might be larger than 20 K, I'm sure we can adjust that. We have plenty of room on the server, and I'm hardly concerned that people will start getting slaphappy with pdf attachments. ;)

Speaking of server room, if anyone would like to have pictures hosted so you can embed them in an article using [img] tags (like I did with the Slaves), just email them to admins@freethought-forum.com and we'll hook you right up.

Okay then, back to the brainstorming. Thank you for starting this exciting thread, Michael (and for your lovely compliments about my article). :)

[HelenM]

lol..contrary to what you think, mathematics is not all numbers and formulae.

Reminds me of when my husband was doing his math PhD and one of his great aunts wrote something to the effect "I hope your sums are going well".

Helen

[Roland98]

Well, my field is microbiology/infectious disease epidemiology, dabbling a bit in bioterrorism prevention, but I feel so many people already get too much of that just by watching the news.

Can't think of many ideas right now for articles I'd like to read, but I definitely will keep that in mind as I read around.

[JoeP]

Well, my field is microbiology/infectious disease epidemiology, dabbling a bit in bioterrorism prevention, but I feel so many people already get too much of that just by watching the news.

Can't think of many ideas right now for articles I'd like to read, but I definitely will keep that in mind as I read around.
How do virulent diseases like Ebola stay around? It would seem they'd kill their victims too quickly to spread (Outbreak notwithstanding) or to persist - if all the carriers & victims are dead there's no more infection?

[Roland98]

How do virulent diseases like Ebola stay around? It would seem they'd kill their victims too quickly to spread (Outbreak notwithstanding) or to persist - if all the carriers & victims are dead there's no more infection?

Humans aren't the natural host. They're infected accidentally and are a "dead end" for the virus, ecologically speaking.

[livius drusus]

Humans aren't the natural host. They're infected accidentally and are a "dead end" for the virus, ecologically speaking.
Dammit, Ro. How will we ever screw an article out of you if you keep answering questions so deftly and succinctly?

[Roland98]

Dammit, Ro. How will we ever screw an article out of you if you keep answering questions so deftly and succinctly?

Heh. Generally when I elaborate over on IIDB, I kill threads. :)

[viscousmemories]

Heh. Generally when I elaborate over on IIDB, I kill threads. :)
That's why you should write an article! Duh.

Seriously I'd be fascinated by something about ebola et. al. When I worked for Zingerman's they made us go through food handling safety training, and I learned all about salmonella and such. I've been terrified of chicken ever since, washing my hands repeatedly when I handle the stuff, washing everything it touches, etc. And especially so since I was infected with C. Jejuni in Germany. Plus I've heard things like using anti-bacterial soap is bad 'cause it lowers your immunity to germs. Is that a myth? Etc. See how ignorant some people are about this stuff? We need an article. :)

Edited to add that I do at least know there's a difference between viruses and bacteria, but the humans aren't ebola's natural host bit got me thinking of things that attack humans, etc.

[dave_a]

That's why you should write an article! Duh.

Plus I've heard things like using anti-bacterial soap is bad 'cause it lowers your immunity to germs. Is that a myth? Etc. See how ignorant some people are about this stuff? We need an article. :)



Perhaps instead of a lengthy article on one topic you could pen a series of short points to dispel common ignorance and misconceptions.

For example, I too have heard that anti bacterial soap is less effective than ordinary soap, which is by default, anti bacterial.

I also think people would be interested in the good bacteria that we couldn't live without. Is eating yogurt a good thing to do while or after taking antibiotics? What's the difference between virii and bacteria?

Seriously, there is no need to assume your readers are at all educated in these things because at least one of of us isn't. Not saying who that is though :D

So how about it? Perhaps a series of paragraphs on various topics that would read something like "microbiology for complete idiots" that covers stuff that would make us look intelligent at parties.

[livius drusus]

So how about it? Perhaps a series of paragraphs on various topics that would read something like "microbiology for complete idiots" that covers stuff that would make us look intelligent at parties.

Hot damn, dantonac, you are crazy good at this! I LOVE this idea. What do you think, Ro?

[viscousmemories]

:yeahthat:

Same goes for the math article, Goliath. I quit school before we got to algebra, and I've always been terrified of (and of course completely ignorant about) math. In fact when I see formulae in writings I'm like what's-his-name on the operating table at the end of Brazil. Lost in a world of my own making...

[Roland98]

All right, all right. If there's interest, I could do one on general antibiotic resistance--that could cover the soaps as well. I can do one on Ebola since I have an Ebola book in progress anyway; it could be a supremely condensed version of that (unless y'all really want to know in detail how the Ebola surface glycoproteins play a role in pathogenesis. No? Didn't think so).

The "good bacteria" one--hmm. I'd need to think of a way to frame that, I think, because right now it could either be about 3 sentences or I could go into a whole diatribe about pathogens versus commensals, evolution of virulence, etc.

Anyway, if there's interest in the first two, I can commit to doing those, since I've already done the legwork and they'll be fairly easy to write. Then I suppose we can play it by ear from there; if you're :yawn:, I won't force any more upon you.

While I'm talking to myself here, one of my other interests is the overlap between chronic and infectious diseases--for example, how Streptococcus pyogenes (group A strep) causes arthritis, heart and kidney disease; or how certain viruses cause cancer; or infections and autoimmune diseases, things like that. But again, generally when I say this, people's eyes glaze over...(yes, I can even see this on the net!! It's amazing...) Haven't written much on it except with regard to multiple sclerosis, but I'll just throw that out there too if anyone would be interested.


What's the difference between virii and bacteria?

That one I won't even justify with an answer. :itchyscratchy:

[Roland98]

Hot damn, dantonac, you are crazy good at this! I LOVE this idea. What do you think, Ro?

I could do that as an intro to everything--not exactly sure what I'd cover, though. Short articles I can do, but a few paragraphs on a topic...not sure I can be that consise! :) I will try to think of something that would work for that.

[Roland98]

:yeahthat:

Same goes for the math article, Goliath. I quit school before we got to algebra, and I've always been terrified of (and of course completely ignorant about) math. In fact when I see formulae in writings I'm like what's-his-name on the operating table at the end of Brazil. Lost in a world of my own making...

I've even had a decent amount of math, but just the routine calc-statistics stuff. So for me, I'd love maybe a "great unanswered questions in math" article. So many of us wonder just what the hell is there still to learn about it. :) I mean, we have addition, subtraction, multiplication...what else do we need? :P

[dave_a]

All right, all right. If there's interest, I could do one on ...




...That one I won't even justify with an answer. :itchyscratchy:

I'm interested in every topic you listed, but I am most interested in the topic you won't justify with an answer. I think you just won't tell us because you don't know. :bonk:

[dave_a]

I could do that as an intro to everything--not exactly sure what I'd cover, though. Short articles I can do, but a few paragraphs on a topic...not sure I can be that consise! :) I will try to think of something that would work for that.

Umm... HELLO!!! you were being painfully concise on page one of this thread. Just do more of that. :super:

[viscousmemories]

I've even had a decent amount of math, but just the routine calc-statistics stuff. So for me, I'd love maybe a "great unanswered questions in math" article. So many of us wonder just what the hell is there still to learn about it. :) I mean, we have addition, subtraction, multiplication...what else do we need? :P
Indeed! And it's so invasive. I'll be reading an essay about logic or something, and next thing you know there's all these pictures and numbers... it's insanity. What the hell does math have to do with logic? Enquiring minds wanna know. (Actually I do have something of a clue, thanks to Clutch's excellent Introduction to Logic (http://www.eblaforum.org/library/philosophy/intphi04.html), but still).

And put me on the list of people interested in your articles, Roland. :)

[livius drusus]

All right, all right. If there's interest, I could do one on general antibiotic resistance--that could cover the soaps as well.

Yes, please.

I can do one on Ebola since I have an Ebola book in progress anyway; it could be a supremely condensed version of that

Hell yes, please.

(unless y'all really want to know in detail how the Ebola surface glycoproteins play a role in pathogenesis. No? Didn't think so).

(Um... Yeah... No.)

The "good bacteria" one--hmm. I'd need to think of a way to frame that, I think, because right now it could either be about 3 sentences or I could go into a whole diatribe about pathogens versus commensals, evolution of virulence, etc.

Is there perhaps a happy medium in there somewhere? Otherwise you'll spend most of the diabtribe defining terms, and I doubt you'd find that in any way entertaining.

Anyway, if there's interest in the first two, I can commit to doing those, since I've already done the legwork and they'll be fairly easy to write. Then I suppose we can play it by ear from there; if you're :yawn:, I won't force any more upon you.

Woohoo! Sign us up, baby! Thank you so much, Roland. I'm really looking forward to seeing you shine in your field. The closest I've come is some of your killer posts in S&S and E/C, but this will be something really special. :)

While I'm talking to myself here, one of my other interests is the overlap between chronic and infectious diseases--for example, how Streptococcus pyogenes (group A strep) causes arthritis, heart and kidney disease; or how certain viruses cause cancer; or infections and autoimmune diseases, things like that. But again, generally when I say this, people's eyes glaze over...(yes, I can even see this on the net!! It's amazing...) Haven't written much on it except with regard to multiple sclerosis, but I'll just throw that out there too if anyone would be interested.

My eyes didn't glaze over at all. In fact, it's an entirely new subject to me and I would love to learn more about it.

[Roland98]

but I am most interested in the topic you won't justify with an answer. I think you just won't tell us because you don't know. :bonk:

/me points to avatar














Aargh, I can't help it. A virus is essentially just an infectious piece of DNA or RNA in a protein coat. On their own, they are incapable of any metabolism; they must enter into a cell and hijack the cell's machinery in order to replicate. This is the key difference. A bacterium is an independent, single-celled organism, generally much larger than a virus. They contain everything they need to grow and reproduce, and are present in essentially every niche on earth.

Some diseases caused by viruses: influenza, Ebola, herpes, AIDS.

Some diseases caused by bacteria: tuberculosis, Black plague, syphillis, strep throat.

[Roland98]

All right, all right. Flattery will get you everywhere. Consider me committed. (And I may well be committed shortly, considering all the things I'm supposed to be doing in the next few months! :) )

Is there perhaps a happy medium in there somewhere? Otherwise you'll spend most of the diabtribe defining terms, and I doubt you'd find that in any way entertaining.

Yeah, I'm sure there is; as I said, just have to think of a way to set it up. Anyway, it can be for later, as I said, if everyone isn't bored after the first ones.

[The Lone Ranger]

Lots of neat ideas! I'm definitely looking forward to reading some of those articles!

An article about the history and philosophy of kendo and/or kyokushin karate would be something I think I'd enjoy writing. Speaking of which, however, I'm heading out to a "Karate Kamp" retreat in just a few hours' time, so I won't be able to really sit down and think about what I might write for probably at least a week or so.

Carry on, everyone!

Cheers,

Michael

[livius drusus]

Thank you in advance for anything you are inspired to write, Michael. I know it'll be great reading. Meanwhile, have fun at the retreat. We'll try to keep dantonac from snatching all your arcade titles in your absence. ;)

[dave_a]

* Roland98 points to avatar

* dantonac does the same




Aargh, I can't help it. A virus is essentially...

Excellent, I appreciate that explanation and am overjoyed to have found a virus like way to get into your system and hijack your machinery. You are now fully under my control. You do realize you had no choice but to provide me with the requested information, right? Of course you do, you said so yourself "Aargh, I can't help it..." Be advised I am replicating like mad at this very moment. Bwahahahaha!

[JoeP]

So, how *do* viruses cause cancer?

And what about prions? Do you do them? Are they "alive" (in fact, are viruses alive)?

[Roland98]

So, how *do* viruses cause cancer?

Guess you'll have to wait for the article. ;) Long story short, they integrate into the chromosome in places that mess up controls for the cell replication machinery, allowing the cells to divide like crazy.

And what about prions? Do you do them? Are they "alive" (in fact, are viruses alive)?

I don't do anything with them currently, but the chair of the department I'll be working in and I are thinking of collaborating on a grant to do something with them (not sure what yet). Prions aren't alive in any sense of the word. They are simply a misfolded protein that, when present, messes up the folding of a normal host protein. They don't replicate on their own or carry any genetic material. (Again, I could probably write up something on this as well, but in many ways prions are almost more of a biochemist's area than a microbiologist's). Viruses could be considered "alive" when inside a cell, but other than that, they're just chemicals, basically.

[Adora]

Well don't I feel like the sore thumb...

Hmm, let's see. Human culture and society. This covers everything from anthropology to how marketers target specific groups of people, to textual analysis or pop culture, to the reflection of certain psychologies in culture etc etc. Yeah, I know the real scientists on this board are shaking their heads in shame but *shrugs*...

I'm currently studying this, and being mocked with such lovely phrases as "Why don't you do a real degree like psychology?" because no one respects Cultural Studies (not even cultural study-ists themselves) since it's the bastard-whore-child of the academic world. Which is probably why I love it so much.

[livius drusus]

Hell, people called my English and History BA the "Would you like fries with that?" degree. Why should we give a rat's ass, sister? We study what we love.

I think your field of study is fanfuckingtastic and would absolutely love to see you write an article. Do you have any favorite areas? Things you've looked at before and enjoyed telling other people about? Hook us up!

[Blake]

I love the field of discussion you're talking about, Adora. Forgive me if I'm wrong and making an insulting comparison, but would Frank Rich's current articles and some of Salon's overviews of American culture (like their old 9/11 and kitsch article) fall into this sort of category?

I might could volunteer for that political article, dantonac, but it would take me a little research to ensure it made a grade, never mind the grade.

[dave_a]

I might could volunteer for that political article, dantonac, but it would take me a little research to ensure it made a grade, never mind the grade.

Go for it, just don't get all socialist weenie on me or it'll raise my blood pressure :P

Honestly with an order like the political party/underlying philosophy idea it's a mighty tall order and in order to do it justice would require you to write a book far longer than I am ever likely to read.

A readers digest version would be perfect. It's one of those things I think I already know anyway so my motive in asking for someone else to do a write up is to have my notions challenged.

Anyway, if you are willing to do it, I would enjoy reading it.

I find it utterly amazing that I have yet to see a single idea for a topic that I don't consider boring yet. I want to read all of them and my only regret is that I don't know enough about anything to contribute.

[Roland98]

Well don't I feel like the sore thumb...

Hmm, let's see. Human culture and society. This covers everything from anthropology to how marketers target specific groups of people, to textual analysis or pop culture, to the reflection of certain psychologies in culture etc etc. Yeah, I know the real scientists on this board are shaking their heads in shame but *shrugs*...

Not at all. If my college would have had minors, I'd have done one in anthro. I took about 5 courses in it anyway, although more of them had a biology or medical focus. And there's a lot of information in cultural anthro that can be applied to infectious disease transmission, as well. (Hmm, can you see what my life revolves around? :) )

I'm currently studying this, and being mocked with such lovely phrases as "Why don't you do a real degree like psychology?" because no one respects Cultural Studies (not even cultural study-ists themselves) since it's the bastard-whore-child of the academic world. Which is probably why I love it so much.

Psychology a real degree??? Pshaw.
:P

Anyway, I'd love to read something--do you have any specific areas that are more interesting to you?

[viscousmemories]

I've never heard of Cultural Studies as a discipline in and of itself. Is that a parent of other disciplines? I'm fascinated by Social Psychology, Sociology and Cultural Anthropology. Particularly the dynamics of social interaction on Internet forums. :P

[dave_a]

I've never heard of Cultural Studies as a discipline in and of itself. Is that a parent of other disciplines? I'm fascinated by Social Psychology, Sociology and Cultural Anthropology. Particularly the dynamics of social interaction on Internet forums. :P

The most efficient way I know of to lose interest in a subject is to take an intro college course in it. I used to be fascinated with sociology and psychology, until my first year of college at which time those things which were once fascinating became utterly dry, boring and devoid of any and all merit.

Totally irrelevant, but I'm just sayin.

[freemonkey]

Well don't I feel like the sore thumb...

Hmm, let's see. Human culture and society. This covers everything from anthropology to how marketers target specific groups of people, to textual analysis or pop culture, to the reflection of certain psychologies in culture etc etc. Yeah, I know the real scientists on this board are shaking their heads in shame but *shrugs*...

I love this stuff, too, and would love to read your articles on it. I've always been fascinated by cultural anthropology, especially where the arts are concerned.

I'm currently studying this, and being mocked with such lovely phrases as "Why don't you do a real degree like psychology?" because no one respects Cultural Studies (not even cultural study-ists themselves) since it's the bastard-whore-child of the academic world. Which is probably why I love it so much.

But why is there so much disdain for it? I don't understand.

[viscousmemories]

The most efficient way I know of to lose interest in a subject is to take an intro college course in it. I used to be fascinated with sociology and psychology, until my first year of college at which time those things which were once fascinating became utterly dry, boring and devoid of any and all merit.
Really? I've taken about 6-8 college classes in my life and only completed a few. Among the few I completed was an Intro to Psychology and I was even more interested in the subject after that class than I had been previously. Of course not interested enough to keep going to school, but still.

Growing up in a college town and having mostly college student friends, I got something of a vicarious education in general studies. But it so happens that most of the people I hung out with in my early 20's were English or Sociology grad students, so I probably know a tiny bit more about that stuff than other things.

[Dingfod]

Psychology a real degree??? Pshaw.
:P No shit. One of my sisters has a Master's in Psychology. She says unless you want to go into social work or teach psychology, it's damn near a worthless degree.

My interests vary... a lot. I would at least be casually interested in all the previously mentioned subjects as long as the articles put it in layman's terms, or at least not in over the head technical lingo. This is not a scientist peer review journal here. I would also be interested in articles about history or about indigenous cultures around the world; or, the latest scientific developments and newest innovations in technology. Give me well-written travelogues or adventure stories any day.

I don't think anyone would be interested in any article I would write because nothing interesting ever happens to me and I know next to nothing anyway. Besides, even if I did know something, I wouldn't be able to communicate it well enough to make sense anyway.


Warren

[livius drusus]

I don't think anyone would be interested in any article I would write because nothing interesting ever happens to me and I know next to nothing anyway.

I'm sorry, Warren but I gotta call :bs2: You know a huge amount of stuff. You have a farm. You know animals, kids, plants, machines... You can restore motorcycles, for God's sake!

All my conscious life I've been fascinating by people who know how to make machines or models or systems work. Do you know how magical it looks to someone who can't do what you do? Like Leonardo's drawings of his inventions, that's what it looks like.

Besides, even if I did know something, I wouldn't be able to communicate it well enough to make sense anyway.

I caught up on your journal this morning so I know for a fact you're wrong about that. Like you, your entries are drily witty, sincere and articulate; I've no doubt any article you wrote would exhibit those same qualities.

[Dingfod]

Flattery will get you everywhere. OK, maybe I've got a little something to offer.

Calling my long skinny spaghetti farm a farm is giving it too much credit. I guess I could write articles about horses and how good they might taste... on a plate of spaghetti. Or, one on how to best mow a pile of rocks. Or, one on how to ruin three or four quarts of perfectly synthetic motor oil by pouring it straight through an engine because of forgetting to put the drain plug back in. Or, on the problems of raising stubborn independent women-children. Or, better yet, an article on how self-effacing humor can lead to low self-esteem.


Warren

[viscousmemories]

I guess I could write articles about horses and how good they might taste... on a plate of spaghetti.
Hmm... that would be odd. I tried horse in Belgium, but not on spaghetti. It tasted very much like beef, actually. Not very exciting.

[livius drusus]

I'm not flattering you, Warren. I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but you can't deflect my admiration of your abilities with a handwave and a chuckle. You are the droid I'm looking for. :yup:

[Dingfod]

Hmm... that would be odd. I tried horse in Belgium, but not on spaghetti. It tasted very much like beef, actually. Not very exciting.I imagined it would taste like beef, they eat pretty much the same thing, grass, mostly.


Warren

[Goliath]

Hmm, I've got a couple ideas for mathematical articles:

1. A basic exposition on factorization theory (the area of my research).

2. Famous problems in Mathematics (solved and unsolved).

Which would you folks like to see first?

Regardless of which one, I'll be writing it up in LaTeX, so the article itself will be a (probably somewhat large, as in a few hundred Kb) .pdf file...would that be an okay attachment size, liv?

[viscousmemories]

Hmm, I've got a couple ideas for mathematical articles:

1. A basic exposition on factorization theory (the area of my research).

2. Famous problems in Mathematics (solved and unsolved).

Which would you folks like to see first?
I'll vote for number two, since I at least have an idea of what it means.

Regardless of which one, I'll be writing it up in LaTeX, so the article itself will be a (probably somewhat large, as in a few hundred Kb) .pdf file...would that be an okay attachment size, liv?
Is that the stuff you pour on your body to look like you're wearing a catsuit?

[livius drusus]

Hmm, I've got a couple ideas for mathematical articles:

1. A basic exposition on factorization theory (the area of my research).

2. Famous problems in Mathematics (solved and unsolved).

Which would you folks like to see first?

I vote #2 first, because it's nice to start with a more general piece. Either way though, I think they're both incredibly cool sounding and I can't wait to see them.

Regardless of which one, I'll be writing it up in LaTeX, so the article itself will be a (probably somewhat large, as in a few hundred Kb) .pdf file...would that be an okay attachment size, liv?

Sure. Just tell me the final number and we'll set it.

Would it be possible for you to post a brief abstract in the article field itself? That way people could get an idea of the contents before they launch the attachement, and we'll have a something in the main article window. You might could screen cap some of the LaTex and embed it as an image for a visual aid.

This is really great. Thank you, Goliath. :)

[Goliath]

Is that the stuff you pour on your body to look like you're wearing a catsuit?

Of course! Didn't I tell you that I was a Halle Berry stunt double for Catwoman?

"Holy fucking shit! Why does Catwoman look like a bloated whale for 3 seconds!?"

:D

Seriously, though, back in the 80's, Donald Knuth (http://www-cs-staff.stanford.edu/~knuth/) wrote a typesetting package called TeX (pronounced "tech"). Sometime in the 90's (yeah, I'm too lazy to look it up...sue me), a more mathematics-friendly version of TeX was produced, called LaTeX (pronounced "law tech").

Basically, you can type up a bunch of code for mathematical symbols, and the compiler spits out a nicely formatted file (assuming that you entered the code in correctly, of course...).

[Goliath]

Okay, so that's two votes for #2. I'll wait for some more votes before deciding (this not only gives more people a chance to vote, but gives me a chance to be lazy and to mull over exactly what I want to say..).

And yes, I can certainly give an abstract in the article field.

[viscousmemories]

Seriously, though, back in the 80's, Donald Knuth (http://www-cs-staff.stanford.edu/~knuth/) wrote a typesetting package called TeX (pronounced "tech"). Sometime in the 90's (yeah, I'm too lazy to look it up...sue me), a more mathematics-friendly version of TeX was produced, called LaTeX (pronounced "law tech").

Basically, you can type up a bunch of code for mathematical symbols, and the compiler spits out a nicely formatted file (assuming that you entered the code in correctly, of course...).
Ahh. Very cool. Naturally being in the computer biz I've seen the acronym a zillion times, but I had no idea what it meant or how to pronounce it properly. So thanks, I've learned something already. :)

[Goliath]

No problem, vm. :)

[LadyShea]

Well I for one have at least a passing interest in every article proposed so far. I love to read new things. Looking forward to them!

[Adora]

Forgive me if I'm wrong and making an insulting comparison, but would Frank Rich's current articles and some of Salon's overviews of American culture (like their old 9/11 and kitsch article) fall into this sort of category?

Of course. I've never heard of him, but it definitely sounds like the right genre of academia.

Anyway, I'd love to read something--do you have any specific areas that are more interesting to you?

Um, not really. I mean, in my degree I've mostly been focusing on things like media and pop culture (because I'm also doing a Media Studies major, and technically the other one is a Film Studies major which is just cultural studies with a few film subjects thrown in) but I'll read anything from articles about fashion trends in different eras to changing views towards education to the social-psychological impact of the first moon landing etc etc.

I've never heard of Cultural Studies as a discipline in and of itself. Is that a parent of other disciplines?

Not really. Cultural studies is specifically a school of teaching and learning established after WWII in England, by teachers and professors who were suddenly faced with the prospect of having to teach middle and lower-class adults who were not susceptable to the regular methods of teaching hoisted upon younger middle to upper class students in their Universities. Theorists like Foucalt, Lacan (brainmelting PAIN), Baudrillard (*hearts*) , Bordieu, Heidegger, Gramsci, *racks her brains* Stuart Hall (I love this guy), Derrida, and others feature most prominently, since their work focuses on systems of communication, symbol exchange, interpretation, power, gender, identity, intertextuality yadda yadda yadda. There's others, but these are the ones I've come across most often in my degree.

Cultural Studies is the actual study of how discourses of culture (art, media, music, social groupings, language, fashion, technology, ideology) interact with, are produced by and received by the populace. The reason it's such a bastard subject is because the methodologies are all pilfered from other branches of study; anthropology, sociology, political sciences even, psychology of course, lots of borrowing from literature and English studies with an assload of textual analysis and stuff. Also, because it is still such a relatively new school, the theory isn't as well developed as others, and also tends not to be as definite with its results when it does present them in journals and paper as other social sciences either, because one of the great sticking points of CS is "It's all a big messy system that's really hard to work out, and we don't pretend we know how to or we really know what we're doing, we're just offering you some options to do it yourself and build upon".

It's all very... postmodern. Which is another reason it is looked down upon. No one likes the pomo. Oh, yeah, and the fact it doesn't differentiate between "High Culture" and "Low Culture" because of its roots in educating working-class adults. It's the kind of school of thought that places an episode of Neighbours on the same cultural value as a David Attenborough documentary or a Royal Shakespeare Company performance. So that pisses a lot of people off too, but also makes it compatible with things like Film & TV studies, and Media & new Technology studies. More established schools like Literature studies, English Studies, Social studies etc don't really like being told a Mills & Boon is worth the same amount of cultural capital as Austen's works though (personally I hate Austen anyway...).

But yeah. That's about it really. Just don't ever expect any definite answers from it, and you'll be fine :yup: I'll have to see if I can find some good articles that won't make some brains melt (Lacan is painwoeoHGODDONTMAKEMEREADHIMAGAIN *eye spasms* I still haven't recovered from his Seminar on the Purloined Letter I had to read last semester).

[Blake]

Cool! Thanks, Adora. Frank Rich is a weekly columnist for the New York Times. He used to be their theater critic, I believe (was enormously influential), but now writes a more idiosyncratic species of column, usually politico-cultural. He had a great own declaring that The Day After Tomorrow was a thinly masked retelling of government reaction to disaster a la 9/11, and he had a rather interesting one recently in which he essentially preferred Spider-Man 2 to Fahrenheit 9/11 as a political movie, suggesting that the former was a better indication of voters' minds and desires this year than the latter.

I like a lot of those authors you mention. I've never read Lacan, and I often found myself annoyed with Derrida, and I think Heidegger's a spineless opportunistic lazy Nazi whore; but Foucault, Bourdieu and Gramsci all get my admiration. ;) I think I like Baudrillard, but if I've actually read anything of his it's minimal.

[davidm]

As a *word* person, I'd like to gain a fuller understanding of math. When I was in school, I was pretty good at it. Then I drifted into wordworking, and now I'm not.

Goliath, may I suggest a more general article that summarizes the main branches of mathematics, from basic to advanced, along with, if possible, recommendations for books that provide self-study courses in each branch -- provided that there really are such books, of course. It could be that to learn math in depth, one has to take classes. Unfortunately, I haven't the time for that.

Everyone can find artistic beauty in words, music and painting. But I have read that mathematics also provides artistic beauty, perhaps even the highest kind, and that one is missing a lot of the beauty of the world by not having an in-depth knowledge of math. Anyway, I've read this enough times to think it is probably true. Otherwise, a lot of mathematicians are liars.

Also, people say stuff all the time. For instance, suppose a man says to me, "There is some mathematical structure that is what mathematicians call isomorphic (and hence equivalent) to our physical world, with each physical entity having a unique counterpart in the mathematical structure and vice versa." If a man says this to me, I would like to know how to evaluate such a comment, especially when he goes on to claim that every mathematical structure instantiates a real world. What, exactly, is a mathematical structure? How could real worlds be "isomorphic" to them? In the absence of a fuller understanding of math, I don't know whether this man is telling me something profound about reality, or whether he simply needs to switch to decaf. :kookoo:

These are but a subset of the thoughts that muddle the mind of the Degenerate Hieroglyph while in the maw of work on a Saturday night. If you could be of any help, Goliath, I'd appreciate it.


The Degenerate Hieroglyph

[Roland98]

Hmm, I've got a couple ideas for mathematical articles:

1. A basic exposition on factorization theory (the area of my research).

2. Famous problems in Mathematics (solved and unsolved).

Which would you folks like to see first?


I vote #2 as well, since that's somewhat like I suggested before. :D But I'd love to learn more about your area of research after that.

[viscousmemories]

I'm interested in all of it, Goliath, honestly. Including the overview Degenerate Hieroglyph suggested. :)

Oh and :welcome:, Degenerate. :didi:

[Goliath]

Goliath, may I suggest a more general article that summarizes the main branches of mathematics,


:eek:

:bigeyes:

:jawdrop:

Ummmm....no. Let me explain.

Part of the website of the American Mathematical Society (http://www.ams.org) (AMS) includes something called MathSciNet. MathSciNet is basically an online database consisting of practically every mathematical article and book review since 1940. There are almost 1.9 million items in MathSciNet. To help sort things out, the AMS has split mathematics into fields via the Mathematics Subject Classification (MSC) numbers which it attaches to every article or book review.

Here is the 2000 version of the MSC index. (http://www.ams.org/msc/) I hope you'll forgive me for not going into each branch in detail. :D


Also, people say stuff all the time. For instance, suppose a man says to me, "There is some mathematical structure that is what mathematicians call isomorphic (and hence equivalent) to our physical world, with each physical entity having a unique counterpart in the mathematical structure and vice versa."


Then this person is using a mathematical term in an imprecise fashion. The word "isomorphism" means different things in different contexts (ie there are different kinds of isomorphisms), but informally an isomorphism is a one to one correspondence that "preserves structure" (whatever that means...).

If a man says this to me, I would like to know how to evaluate such a comment, especially when he goes on to claim that every mathematical structure instantiates a real world.


Ummmm...I'd like to know, too, frankly.


What, exactly, is a mathematical structure?


Well..."structure" is a term that is very context dependent, and doesn't have a universal definition. Let me illustrate with an example.

Consider the integers (ie whole numbers). What was one of the first things that you learned to do with them? Add them (subtraction doesn't count...it's really just adding negatives). Now, there's an additive identity of 0 (in other words, x + 0 = x for all integers x), every integer has an additive inverse of -x (ie something that I can add to x to get 0), addition is commutative (ie x + y = y + x for all integers x and y) and associative (ie (x+y)+z=x+(y+z) for all integers x, y, and z).

Now, this addition has all the "nice" properties listed above. Or, in other words, the integers have a nice additive structure.

I hope that at least illustrated what is meant. If it doesn't, let me know.

[davidm]

:eek:

:bigeyes:

:jawdrop:

Ummmm....no. Let me explain.

Part of the website of the American Mathematical Society (http://www.ams.org) (AMS) includes something called MathSciNet. MathSciNet is basically an online database consisting of practically every mathematical article and book review since 1940. There are almost 1.9 million items in MathSciNet. To help sort things out, the AMS has split mathematics into fields via the Mathematics Subject Classification (MSC) numbers which it attaches to every article or book review.

Here is the 2000 version of the MSC index. (http://www.ams.org/msc/) I hope you'll forgive me for not going into each branch in detail. :D

:yikes:

Actually, I didn't say, "go into detail," but merely summarize. I had some kind of naive notion like, Algebra deals with (summary); followed by book recommendation. Same for geometry, trigonometry, calculus, etc. etc. Real basic, to give people some general idea of the main branches of math and what they entail, with reading recommendations for further study.

Then this person is using a mathematical term in an imprecise fashion. The word "isomorphism" means different things in different contexts (ie there are different kinds of isomorphisms), but informally an isomorphism is a one to one correspondence that "preserves structure" (whatever that means...).

The claim may be found on Page 13 of this physics paper (http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0302/0302131.pdf), under the subsection, "The possibility that the physical world is a mathematical structure." The whole paper is worth reading. He does explain what a mathematical structure is, but your illustration of one such structure makes it clearer. Even after reading the paper, though, I still can't figure out why mathematics should instantiate physical reality.


Well..."structure" is a term that is very context dependent, and doesn't have a universal definition. Let me illustrate with an example.

Consider the integers (ie whole numbers). What was one of the first things that you learned to do with them? Add them (subtraction doesn't count...it's really just adding negatives). Now, there's an additive identity of 0 (in other words, x + 0 = x for all integers x), every integer has an additive inverse of -x (ie something that I can add to x to get 0), addition is commutative (ie x + y = y + x for all integers x and y) and associative (ie (x+y)+z=x+(y+z) for all integers x, y, and z).

Now, this addition has all the "nice" properties listed above. Or, in other words, the integers have a nice additive structure.

I hope that at least illustrated what is meant. If it doesn't, let me know.

It's very clear, thanks. :yup:

[davidm]

I'm interested in all of it, Goliath, honestly. Including the overview Degenerate Hieroglyph suggested. :)

Oh and :welcome:, Degenerate. :didi:


Thanks, viscousmemories. :happywave:

I love these smilies ...

[livius drusus]

Hi, Degenerate Hieroglyph. :wave: Do you have any preferred short version of your handle?

Welcome to FF. :)

[davidm]

Hi, Degenerate Hieroglyph. :wave: Do you have any preferred short version of your handle?

My friends call me a "Degenerate." :bag:

Welcome to FF. :)

Thank you ! :D

[Goliath]

Actually, I didn't say, "go into detail," but merely summarize. I had some kind of naive notion like, Algebra deals with (summary); followed by book recommendation. Same for geometry, trigonometry, calculus, etc. etc.


Ummm...nope. It's not that simple. Here are some of the fields of study within ring theory (which is a sub-discipline of algebra) that I can think of (note that I'm not emitting the following shitstorm of buzzwords to try to confuse or intimidate you, but just so that you can see how big of a field "algebra" is):

Factorization theory (including the study of UFDs, HFDs, FFDs, BFDs, idf domains, ACCP domains, and atomic domains), polynomial extensions, power series extensions, theory of integrality, valuation domains, matrix rings, Noetherian rings, local rings, quasilocal rings, semilocal rings, quasisemilocal rings, Artinian rings, dimension theory of rings, Dedekind and Krull domains (and the class groups therein), GCD domains, groups of divisibility, complete integral closures; LO, GU, GD, and INC properties of ring extensions; flatness, localizations, ideals, prime ideals, maximal ideals, primary ideals, radical ideals, SFT domains, SSFT domains, Cohen-Macaulay rings, Gorenstein rings, affine rings, Bezout domains, Prufer domains, etc, etc, etc....

And for most of the topics that I listed above, there is at least one book at least partially devoted to them (and they are all mentioned in articles). By the way, the list above I typed out in about 4-5 min.

Keep in mind that we're still talking about algebra. Other branches of mathematics include real analysis, functional analysis, Ergodic theory, operator theory, numerical analysis, graph theory, combinatorics, and category theory, to name but a few.

I hope that you now realize how undoable your request is. Not to try to belittle you, but there's no way that I can summarize every branch of mathematics consicely and thoroughly.

As a further illustration, grab a piece of paper. Draw a big circle on it (make it fill most of the paper). Imagine that the inside of this circle represents all currently known mathematical knowledge as of this moment (we fix time so that the circle doesn't expand on us). Now, somewhere in the circle, make the tiniest dot that you can.

That dot represents all of high school mathematics, along with two years of calculus in college. And the dot is waaaaay bigger than the amount of knowledge that it represents.



The claim may be found on Page 13 of this physics paper (http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0302/0302131.pdf), under the subsection, "The possibility that the physical world is a mathematical structure."



Hmmm, okay, so he defines a structure as a formal system...a bit weird, and not normal usage amongst mathematicians that I'm aware of.

Glancing over it, I see one thing right away that I take major exception to:


[structures] are “out there” in the sense that mathematicians discover them rather than create them,


Unless the author of this paper has solved a quandary of mathematical philosophy about as old as time itself (namely, whether mathematics is discovered or created), then I don't think he can make this claim with any certainty whatsoever.

He also doesn't state exactly what he means by "isomorphism". If he's trying to write about mathematics, then it would behoove the author to rigorously define his terms (or state which terms are to be undefined).

Frankly, I'm not too impressed. The author of that article seems to be wielding mathematical buzzwords without knowing (or seemingly caring) what they mean.



Even after reading the paper, though, I still can't figure out why mathematics should instantiate physical reality.



That's because mathematics need not have a thing to do with physical reality.

[viscousmemories]

LadyShea was telling me about the results of yesterday's egg retrieval, and in response to the blank stare I gave her she gave me a very succinct but informative introduction to infertility treatments. So fascinated was I, that I beseeched her to take up a quill and pen an article for our humble (and as yet painfully bare) repository. She complied, and produced part one of an outstanding series for us which we'll have up in the articles section tomorrow.

Thanks LadyShea! :)

[livius drusus]

Factorization theory (including the study of UFDs, HFDs, FFDs, BFDs, idf domains, ACCP domains, and atomic domains), polynomial extensions, power series extensions, theory of integrality, valuation domains, matrix rings, Noetherian rings, local rings, quasilocal rings, semilocal rings, quasisemilocal rings, Artinian rings, dimension theory of rings, Dedekind and Krull domains (and the class groups therein), GCD domains, groups of divisibility, complete integral closures; LO, GU, GD, and INC properties of ring extensions; flatness, localizations, ideals, prime ideals, maximal ideals, primary ideals, radical ideals, SFT domains, SSFT domains, Cohen-Macaulay rings, Gorenstein rings, affine rings, Bezout domains, Prufer domains, etc, etc, etc....

Is it just me, or are there are a shitload of college band names to be found in that paragraph? :D

[livius drusus]

Thanks LadyShea! :)

Ditto. I can't believe she just wrote this great piece out in two shakes of a lamb's tail. We'll get it up and ready asap so y'all can see for yourselves how much it kicks ass.

[Roland98]

Ditto. I can't believe she just wrote this great piece out in two shakes of a lamb's tail. We'll get it up and ready asap so y'all can see for yourselves how much it kicks ass.

/me checks.

/me is disappointed.


Tease. :D

[viscousmemories]

Hey! What part of "tomorrow" didn't you understand? :didi:

[Roland98]

Hey! What part of "tomorrow" didn't you understand? :didi:

The part where liv said "asap." :)

[livius drusus]

The part where liv said "asap." :)
Hey! ASAP and tomorrow were perfectly congruent in this case. :hmph:

[Roland98]

Hey! ASAP and tomorrow were perfectly congruent in this case. :hmph:

Well, it's tomorrow...


/me taps her fingers...

[livius drusus]

Let the good Lady sleep an hour or two, at least. Sheesh...

/me pretends she's not tapping her fingers

[LadyShea]

I am on the West coast people and I just had egg retrieval surgery on Friday and I started my big ass shots and was writing this until after midnight

It's up, for what it's worth. Thank you Tom for the idea and thank you livius for the formatting that makes it look all professional!

[livius drusus]

Check out the new featured article, everyone! (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?)

Thank you, LadyShea, for writing such a great, informative piece so everyone who reads it can benefit from the immense of amount of research you've done. Brava!

[viscousmemories]

Thank you, LadyShea, for writing such a great, informative piece so everyone who reads it can benefit from the immense of amount of research you've done. Brava!
Hear, hear! :appl:

[Roland98]

I am on the West coast people and I just had egg retrieval surgery on Friday and I started my big ass shots and was writing this until after midnight

Sorry, I was under the impression I was waiting for liv and vm. Of course you are allowed to take as long as you like!

/me runs off to read

/me is probably abusing this function too much. :yup:

[davidm]

mathematics need not have a thing to do with physical reality[/b].

Goliath, thanks for your response. I'll respond more fully myself tomorrow (Monday) with some questions for you.

Your response fascinates me. I think as you do, but still the author of the paper is an accomplished physicist. Why, exacty, do you find his claim that mathematics = = physical reality to fail? He potentially gives strong evidence: "The unreasonable effectiveness" of math in describing reality.

What grounds do we have to prefer an Aristotelean conception of reality over a Platonic one?

[Goliath]

Goliath, thanks for your response. I'll respond more fully myself tomorrow (Monday) with some questions for you.


No problem.


Why, exacty, do you find his claim that mathematics = = physical reality to fail? He potentially gives strong evidence: "The unreasonable effectiveness" of math in describing reality.


Applied Mathematics describes physical reality in an "unreasonably effective" manner. Many branches of Pure Mathematics do not describe physical reality (at least, not in any way that we know of).


What grounds do we have to prefer an Aristotelean conception of reality over a Platonic one?

None that I'm aware of. However, why should we accept a Platonic conception of reality?

Hell, I'm a mathematician...when I'm doing research, it feels as though I'm working with objects that are "out there" in some immaterial realm. However, there is no evidence (let alone proof) that such a realm exists.

[viscousmemories]

Thanks to our newest article author, catalyst, for Training Without Equipment (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=7). :)

[livius drusus]

Thanks to our newest article author, catalyst, for Training Without Equipment (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=7). :)
It shouldn't come as a surprise to hear that I love catalyst's article and intend to harass him regularly for another. Thank you catalyst, for recreating my favorite post of yours and making it even better than I remembered. :yes!:

[catalyst]

<blush>

[livius drusus]

I can see Roland has yet to teach you the marvels of the /me hack. Hard to believe, really, considering she hits off it like it's the sweetest crack pipe of all time.

[Roland98]

I can see Roland has yet to teach you the marvels of the /me hack. Hard to believe, really, considering she hits off it like it's the sweetest crack pipe of all time.

/me flips liv the bird


:) Can't babysit him all the time, you know. Gotta get crackin' on some articles of my own.

[livius drusus]

* Roland98 flips liv the bird

/me can't hear it and would like Roland to turn it up.

:) Can't babysit him all the time, you know. Gotta get crackin' on some articles of my own.

Now that's the damned truth. Get on it, will ya! :whip:

[catalyst]

I can see Roland has yet to teach you the marvels of the /me hack. Hard to believe, really, considering she hits off it like it's the sweetest crack pipe of all time.

Bah. Cute little tricks with the keyboard are not really my thing.

[livius drusus]

Cute?! Whah ah nevah...

[livius drusus]

I swear we're the luckiest forum in the whole wide world. We've add two new articles since last posting; both of them very much in keeping with LadyShea and catalyst's tradition of excellence.

Clutch has written a fascination two-parter: Critical Thinking as Knowledge of Biases - I (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=8) and Critical Thinking as Knowledge of Biases - II (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=9). Keep an eye (ear?) out for the killer audio aides.

The Lone Ranger has written Some Thoughts on the Way of the Sword (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=10), his musings on the practice and philosophy of martial arts in general and his own art of Kendo in particular. It is both a fine overview and a fascinating personal perspective.

Next one coming down the pike is Roland's Microbiology for Dummies, and let me just tell you as a teaser that it too kicks royal ass.

Thanks to all the article writers for doing such incredible work (and so damn quickly!).

[catalyst]

I would like to see Michael write something that differentiates Kendo from Kenjutsu, or at least where/how the split came about, IIRC, as well as Iaido.

[livius drusus]

Check out your mind control powers at work, dantonac. Roland did it! (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=11) And so damn well, too. Thank you, Roland. :appl:

[Goliath]

[Jedi Mind Trick]

You aren't impatiently waiting for me to finish my articles. You can wait a bit longer.

[/Jedi Mind Trick]

(and in case that didn't work.....)

:peek: :couch: :hide: :hidecomp:

[livius drusus]

Awww... Those fraidycat smilies sucker me in every time. Just for that, I shall not whine "are we there yet?" for another week. After that, all bets are off. ;)

P.S. - Goliath, you could take a year to finish and I'd still be immensely grateful and thrilled to have your work on the site. I wouldn't demand that Faberge get his egg done fast or else, and I certainly wouldn't demand that you produce your art on cue. Take your time, m'dear.

[Goliath]

Awww... Those fraidycat smilies sucker me in every time. Just for that, I shall not whine "are we there yet?" for another week.


Phew...at least she isn't bringing out the whip... :P



P.S. - Goliath, you could take a year to finish and I'd still be immensely grateful and thrilled to have your work on the site. I wouldn't demand that Faberge get his egg done fast or else, and I certainly wouldn't demand that you produce your art on cue. Take your time, m'dear.



Awww, thanks. I was going to move crap into my office today, but when I saw my girlfriend on Friday and Saturday, we apparently shared a bit more than our company, and now both of us are sick (now in more than one way! :P).

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that I think I'll start on that article today.

[livius drusus]

Coolness. Writing an article beats the living hell out of moving crap, imo; particularly if you're a tad under the weather. Hell, that could be our slogan.

Write an article for the FF: it's beats the hell out of moving crap. :D

[viscousmemories]

Much thanks and praise to The Lone Ranger for another excellent article: Japanese Martial Arts Styles (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=12). :)

[livius drusus]

Echoing thanks and praise from me, too. Another great job, Michael. :)

[livius drusus]

I finally finished the formatting of LadyShea's latest article on infertility (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=13) and it's another great one. Thank you for your writing and your patience, Shea. :bow:

[wade-w]

When I first saw this thread today, I immediately thought of asking if Goliath would consider writing an article or two on Mathematics. After reading the thread, I am pleased to see that he has offered to do so. I look forward to reading the results. Famous unsolved problems is a good starting point for the layman.

I also eagerly await seeing an article on your own research, Goliath.

Another possible article topic has been indirectly addressed in this thread: Mathematical Philosophy. Does mathematics exist independent of our current thought and are simply awaiting discovery, or is it really a mind game played with marks on paper? Is mathematics just an extension of logic? Is it enough to merely show existence without showing construction?

[livius drusus]

Blake has written up the op of this thread (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=307) into our first opinion article: Why the United States Need a Constitutional Convention (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/article.php?a=14).* Thank you for clearing the dustbunnies out of that category with such a great piece. :)

Now, can I interest anyone in writing a fiery rebuttal?

*Choice to consider "United States" plural entirely his own. :P

[Goliath]

Well, those of you who have been chomping at the bit for my article on famous mathematical problems (yep...all three of ya!) will be happy to know that the article is about a third completed...I know which problems I want to showcase, and I know roughly how I'm going to do it.

The article should be done by next weekend at the absolute latest.

[JoeP]

Famous mathematical problems:
Exactly how complete is your article?
When will it be finished?
Is it possible to state with absolute certainty it'll be done by next weekend?

[Goliath]

Famous mathematical problems:
Exactly how complete is your article?


Impossible to say at this point, as I don't know what the final word count will be.



When will it be finished?



Hopefully sometime between now and next weekend.


Is it possible to state with absolute certainty it'll be done by next weekend?

I very much doubt it.

Until then, however, here's a brain teaser for ya:

I have a shoebox with infinite volume. I also have infinitely many ping-pong balls, with a different positive integer labeling each (so I have a ball with a "1" on it, a ball with a "2" on it, etc..).

At exactly one minute to mindight, I put balls #1-10 into the box, and I take ball #1 out.

At precisely one half of a minute to midnight, I put balls #11-20 into the box, and I take ball #2 out.

At precisely one third of a minute to midnight, I put balls #21-30 into the box, and I take ball #3 out.

.
.
etc.

Now, assuming that I have the reflexes to keep up with this pattern, at exactly midnight, how many balls are left in the box, and why?

:popcorn:

[viscousmemories]

The article should be done by next weekend at the absolute latest.
Take your time, Goliath. I'm looking forward to it but don't strain yourself on our account. :)

[livius drusus]

Well, those of you who have been chomping at the bit for my article on famous mathematical problems....

Present and accounted for. :)

[JoeP]

Well, obviously there are 9 more balls every time you move so the number of balls can never decrease ... so it must be infinite ... on the other hand, every single ball gets taken out at some point, so there are none left. Is this paradoxical? Is it even a well-defined problem?

[JoeP]

Take your time, Goliath. I'm looking forward to it but don't strain yourself on our account. :)
Since vm is too mean to let you use his account, check out www.strainyourself4free.com
:wtf:

[viscousmemories]

Well, obviously there are 9 more balls every time you move so the number of balls can never decrease ... so it must be infinite ... on the other hand, every single ball gets taken out at some point, so there are none left. Is this paradoxical? Is it even a well-defined problem?
At a glance I'd say you're wrong (but don't look at me for a right answer). The reason is that I see at least one limitation: time. You only have until midnight to accomplish this task, so the result can't be infinite... can it?

[viscousmemories]

Or wait a minute.... no, that's not right. It's infinite not because of the ball count, but because you'll never get to midnight! Am I right? Huh? Huh?

[JoeP]

The fact that you'll never get to midnight (which really means you can't get infinitely many actions in 60 seconds) is not the point: G told us to assume his reactions were fast enough. He also told us to assume an infinitely large shoebox and an infinite number of ping-pong balls. These assumptions conflict with current cosmology. And beg the question of there being an infinitely large pair of shoes requiring such a box. Who would need infinitely large shoes? And are his boots too big for him?

[viscousmemories]

The fact that you'll never get to midnight (which really means you can't get infinitely many actions in 60 seconds) is not the point: G told us to assume his reactions were fast enough.
No, no. I mean he said precisely one minute, then one half of a minute, then one third of a minute... won't that just go on forever? One bazillionth of a minute, one quatratillionth of a minute, etc.

He also told us to assume an infinitely large shoebox and an infinite number of ping-pong balls. These assumptions conflict with current cosmology. And beg the question of there being an infinitely large pair of shoes requiring such a box. Who would need infinitely large shoes? And are his boots too big for him?
Can we judge until we've walked a mile in them?

[wade-w]

Well, obviously there are 9 more balls every time you move so the number of balls can never decrease ... so it must be infinite ... on the other hand, every single ball gets taken out at some point, so there are none left. Is this paradoxical? Is it even a well-defined problem?

Things can get rather strange when you start talking about infinity. This is a well defined problem, and there is no paradox involved. You got it right the second time, there are no balls left and for exactly the reason you gave.

Here's a proof:

Suppose there are a non-zero number of balls left at midnight. Then we can remove a ball, say N. But the ball marked N must have been removed on the Nth iteration, a contradiction. Therefore there are 0 balls left in the box.

[wade-w]

Another way to look at it (and this is really JoeP's solution):

the set of all balls added:

A = {1, 2, 3... }

the set of all balls removed:

R = {1, 2, 3... }

Since A = R, all balls are eventually removed. This works out to 0 balls removed because we are removing the balls sequentially. Note that if we removed only every tenth ball, (ball #1 on the first iteration, ball #10 on the next and so forth) there would be an infinite number of balls left in the box. There would also be an infinite number of balls that we have removed from the box.

[viscousmemories]

Okay I follow ya. But on what iteration did we get to midnight?

[wade-w]

Okay I follow ya. But on what iteration did we get to midnight?

Your point is actually a good one. I could be flippant and say we get there on the aleph-null'th (should be the first letter of the hebrew alphabet, aleph, with a subscript of 0 but I don't know how to do that in vb) iteration, but then I'd have to explain transfinite numbers. I won't bore y'all with that unless someone asks (it's one of my favorite topics, so I tend to get carried away at times; I'm barely restraining myself as it is).

Anyway, as you say it would take an infinite number of iterations to actually reach midnight so we can never really get there. But as Joe mentioned, there can't really be an infinitely large shoebox nor a countably infinite number of ping pong balls.

If we were to stop at any time arbitrarily close to midnight and count the balls, we'd have 9*N balls in the box, where N is the actual number of iterations performed.

[viscousmemories]

Your point is actually a good one.
Ah okay thanks! At least I'm not completely retarded; that's a reassurance. :)

[Chiron]

There's something sorta similar I know of.

Say you have a bouncy magic ball, a floor, a watermelon, and a stopwatch. You also have a uniform gravitational field (g = 10m/s/s) and a magical hand that can raise the magic ball up so that the lowest point of the ball is at a height of one meter; the apex of every bounce is only 80% the height of the previous apex, so the first rebound will go 0.8m high, the second'll go 0.64m high, and so forth; additionally, rebounding off of the floor takes exactly 0 seconds (infinite forces are fun!) and the ball distorts not at all (dude, it's a magic ball). Now, there are several questions that I can ask, so I'll ask all of them!
How many times will the magic ball bounce? (What is nf?)
How long will it take to stop bouncing? (What is Tf?)
What will be the total distance the ball travels, from t=0 to t=Tf?
Is the sub-sonic air resistance of the watermelon proportional to its cross-sectional area?

'Cos I'm just supergreat, I'll even give you some kinematic equations for use with uniform acceleration. DO THEY WORK WHEN THE BALL BOUNCES YOU SCREAM IN ABJECT TERROR?!?!? WHO KNOWS!!!!1!!!!atsign!!@21!!!!!!!~!!!
v = v0 + at
x = vavgt
vavg = (v0 + v) / 2
x = v0t + 0.5at2
v2 = v02+ 2axWhere v = final velocity, v0 = initial velocity, a = acceleration, t = time, and x = position (though in this case it is in the y direction).
And you must show your work or else you must beat yourself about the head with a wet noodle. A large wet noodle.
K

post scriptum: It is unfortunate for most people that Google's calculator doesn't do summation... suckers!
Yarr!,
Xhiroeun

[squian]

Another way to look at it (and this is really JoeP's solution):

the set of all balls added:

A = {1, 2, 3... }

the set of all balls removed:

R = {1, 2, 3... }

Since A = R, all balls are eventually removed. This works out to 0 balls removed because we are removing the balls sequentially. Note that if we removed only every tenth ball, (ball #1 on the first iteration, ball #10 on the next and so forth) there would be an infinite number of balls left in the box. There would also be an infinite number of balls that we have removed from the box.

I thought the problem could be solved as the limit of 9/t as t approaches 0. In which case my answer was not 0, it was infinity. I'm still pondering why that did not come out right.

Suppose there are a non-zero number of balls left at midnight. Then we can remove a ball, say N. But the ball marked N must have been removed on the Nth iteration, a contradiction. Therefore there are 0 balls left in the box.

Is infinity a non-zero number?

Lastly, if we do not number the balls and pull a random one out of the box each time, does it change the answer?

[viscousmemories]

Y'all are of course free to keep talking about this here, but perhaps whomever responds to squian should do so by starting a new thread to keep this one on topic and attract more interest in the infinite balls issue.

Edited to add: And so it was done (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4300#post4300).

[Goliath]

There's something sorta similar I know of.


Well, I don't wanna ruin the fun for anyone else, but I don't think that you need any of the formulae to answer your questions about the ball (just a lil' knowledge of geometric series).

Oh, and as for the watermelon question...no idea. But if you wait in a prearranged, marked spot while I climb up to the top of a tall building with a watermelon...........


:D

[Chiron]

Well, I don't wanna ruin the fun for anyone else, but I don't think that you need any of the formulae to answer your questions about the ball (just a lil' knowledge of geometric series).Well, if you plan to find the total time required, then you need at least one kinematic equation for how to relate height and acceleration to time. If there's another way, I am unaware of it.
Oh, and as for the watermelon question...no idea. But if you wait in a prearranged, marked spot while I climb up to the top of a tall building with a watermelon...........


:D
Obi Wan has taught you well... but now can you tell me whether the supersonic air resistance of the watermelon is proportional to its cross-sectional area? HUH?!? What now, big man!?!?

Incidentally, the "sorta similar" part came of the fact that your original tiding-over problem had both infinities and tennis balls. Mine only has infinities and a single ball, but it's magic. Magic like the space pope!

K

[viscousmemories]

Incidentally, the "sorta similar" part came of the fact that your original tiding-over problem had both infinities and tennis balls.
I may not know squat about numerology, but I know my balls and those referenced were of the species pingus pongus, not tennisus.

[Chiron]

Xhiroeun chooses not to discriminate among tennis balls, ping pong balls, magic balls, ballet, and any such classes of objects that contain "ball" within their names, have ever been mistaken for being balls, or have ever been mistaken for containing "ball" within their names. Xhiroeun thusly demonstrates his evenhandedness in this controversial and politically-relevant issue, in sharp contrast with his prejudiced and hatemongering opponents. Vote Xhiroeun for space pope in the upcoming elections!

[xouper]

I've been leisurely going through some of the older threads on this forum and I just now found this:




Well, those of you who have been chomping at the bit for my article on famous mathematical problems (yep...all three of ya!) will be happy to know that the article is about a third completed...I know which problems I want to showcase, and I know roughly how I'm going to do it.

The article should be done by next weekend at the absolute latest.
Has there been any update since that was posted? I'm still catching up here.

As I understand it, Goliath is currently at some high-faloottin' mathenerdical convention in Atlanta, but when he gets back, I'm curious if my recent comments about the Riemann Hypothesis and the zeta function have overlapped his proposed article? :doh:

In fact, my proposed explanation of the zeta function for non-math people has almost become an article in its own right. I'm finding that as I write it, the more I write, there's yet more I want to say about it. At that rate, I'll never get done. :eek:

[livius drusus]

I think once school started the article idea ended up on the backest of burners. I have no idea if Goliath's vision included the Riemann Hypothesis, but he certainly wouldn't be focusing on it since his article was meant to be something of an overview.

I'd love to see your Riemann post as an article. We currently have a 5000 word limit on articles (built into the hack for some inexplicable reason), so you could either use that as a ceiling or just keep on talking and we'll divide it into parts like we did with Clutch's Critical Thinking article.

Maybe you could post an abstract in the thread and link to the full article. Or else you could just plain post it since you don't have to worry about word limits. Whatever you do is fabulously great with us. :bgirl:

[xouper]

Bump for Goliath, now that he's back from Atlanta.