Five Years

[ChuckF]

Five years ago today (or tomorrow, depending on time zones) the US invaded Iraq. Setting aside, for the moment, the questions of legality and the breathtaking costs of the war, I think it's appropriate to take a look back at what some very serious men had to say around this time five years ago.

"It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
-Donald Rumsfeld, February 7, 2003

"We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators."
-Dick Cheney, March 16, 2003

"We will win this conflict. We will win it easily."
-John McCain, January 22, 2003

"But there’s no doubt in my mind that we will prevail and there’s no doubt in my mind, once these people are gone, that we will be welcomed as liberators."
-John McCain, March 24, 2003

[Uthgar the Brazen]

It's a good thing they were wrong, or some CEO's would be having to hold off on buying another jet for a week or two. Averting such a crisis is certainly worth the slaughter. Jesus agrees with me, too.

[Legs]

Wow, I was still in my 30's when this mess started. :longing:

[Naruto]

I was still in my teens :shakecane:

[Master Taran]

I hadn't turned 50 yet.

[Adam]

Technically, all the quotes in the OP are accurate. The US did roll over the Iraqi army in short order (and we damn well better have done so...we don't account for over half the world's military spending for nothing), and large segments of the Iraqi population did greet US troops as liberators. The war has been over since May of 2003 and we won it handily.

Too bad none of those guys bothered to think ahead past that point, huh?

[Watser?]

It's not like nobody did though. Any Middle East expert worth his salt could have told them what would happen next. In fact: they did.

Not that anyone was listening.

So far the US is pretty lucky in fact. The Shi'ites have not started a major revolt against them. If they had (and they still might) the US would have been in real trouble.

[Caligulette]

Wow, I was still in my 30's when this mess started. :longing:

As was I (well, wait, I still am, but just barely), and my son did not even exist yet. Unless you go by the fundie "from conception", or Mormon, "from pre-conception" standards.

Maybe by "these people", McCain meant All These Darned Iraqi's? That would explain his willingness to finish the job...:(

[Watser?]

Meanwhile, in another universe, George W Bush declared victory (again):
President George W Bush has delivered a speech to mark the fifth anniversary of the US-led invasion of Iraq.

Speaking at the Pentagon, Mr Bush said "removing Saddam Hussein from power was the right decision".

And he went on to say that the recent "surge" of US troops to Iraq has brought about "a major strategic victory in the broader war on terror".
BBC NEWS | Americas | Bush speech hails Iraq 'victory' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7305023.stm)

[Sauron]

Five years ago today (or tomorrow, depending on time zones) the US invaded Iraq. Setting aside, for the moment, the questions of legality and the breathtaking costs of the war, I think it's appropriate to take a look back at what some very serious men had to say around this time five years ago.

"It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
-Donald Rumsfeld, February 7, 2003

"We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators."
-Dick Cheney, March 16, 2003

"We will win this conflict. We will win it easily."
-John McCain, January 22, 2003

"But there’s no doubt in my mind that we will prevail and there’s no doubt in my mind, once these people are gone, that we will be welcomed as liberators."
-John McCain, March 24, 2003

And the war will only cost $50 to $60 billion dollars. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/washington/19cost.html?_r=1&ex=1363665600&en=516c4f57ae340cc1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin) Current costs?

Five years in, the Pentagon tags the cost of the Iraq war at roughly $600 billion and counting. Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel Prize-winning economist and critic of the war, pegs the long-term cost at more than $4 trillion. The Congressional Budget Office and other analysts say that $1 trillion to $2 trillion is more realistic, depending on troop levels and on how long the American occupation continues.

[Watser?]

This part especially was fun in that speech: He also made the case that by working with Sunni Arabs from so-called Awakening Councils to defeat al-Qaeda, the US was successfully driving a wedge between militants and the Arab mainstream.

"In Iraq," he said, "we are witnessing the first large-scale Arab uprising against Osama Bin Laden. And the significance of this development cannot be overstated."
In fact of course the US is paying former insurgents $10 a day not to fight them. And even that is unraveling, some of them have gone on strike.

[Adam]

Well, I, for one, am glad that there's a "large-scale Arab uprising against" some guy in a cave somewhere.

[ChuckF]

Golly, yeah. I wonder if any of those Arabs know where he is.

[godfry n. glad]

I seem to remember someone saying, before this whole whooptidoo happened that, sure...we would win the war, but we would lose the occupation.

General Shinseki, perhaps?

IIRC, George HW Bush advised his son on that basis and opposed the second invasion of Iraq.

[Caligulette]

Did Bush mention anything in his speech about not supporting future dictators and building-bombers even if it was expedient? No? Oh, well...

[InTheServiceOfZeke]

during those five years...Hummer released the H2 just previous to the war and has since launched the H3. what could be next?

zoom zoom zoom...

[Stephen Maturin]

Meanwhile, in another universe, George W Bush declared victory (again):

Huzzah! Five years in and we're STILL WINNING!

Forget all that flotsam about middle class people with jobs living in tent cities. Does that detract in any way from the FACT that we're still the greatest country on earth? Not just no, but fuck no!

God Bless America!

Let the eagle soar like she's never soared before!

YOO!!! ESS!!! AY!!!

YOO!!! ESS!!! AY!!!

YOO!!! ESS!!! AY!!!

[Uthgar the Brazen]

during those five years...Hummer released the H2 just previous to the war and has since launched the H3. what could be next?

zoom zoom zoom...

Tricking those bad fuckers out and putting 'em in NASCAR. Take out a couple of rows with an accident? Shit, take out a whole fucking section! Yeah, baby!

[Dingfod]

The Hummer Scoooter?
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/01/hummer__scooter_h2_by_obiboi_opt.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/30/hummer-h2-450-scooter-makes-our-head-hurt/)


Actually, the next one is the Hummer H4 (http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/28/hummer-h4-may-be-back-in-the-works/), a competitor for the Jeep Wrangler.

The H2's days are numbered. (http://www.hummerguy.net/hummer-news/hummer-h2-days-are-numbered)

[Stephen Maturin]

One should never pass on an opportunity to post a link to FUH2 (http://www.fuh2.com/), so here it is.

[InTheServiceOfZeke]

The Hummer Scoooter?
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/01/hummer__scooter_h2_by_obiboi_opt.jpg (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/30/hummer-h2-450-scooter-makes-our-head-hurt/)



damn...i hope Hollywood never remakes Quadrophenia.

[lisarea]

One should never pass on an opportunity to post a link to FUH2 (http://www.fuh2.com/), so here it is.

http://www.fuh2.com/images/5925-1.jpg

[Uthgar the Brazen]

* Uthgar the Brazen squints

Dude, is Superman flipping them off or throwing the goat?

[Watser?]

Meanwhile, in another universe, George W Bush declared victory (again):

Huzzah! Five years in and we're STILL WINNING!

Forget all that flotsam about middle class people with jobs living in tent cities. Does that detract in any way from the FACT that we're still the greatest country on earth? Not just no, but fuck no!

God Bless America!

Let the eagle soar like she's never soared before!

YOO!!! ESS!!! AY!!!

YOO!!! ESS!!! AY!!!

YOO!!! ESS!!! AY!!!
Oh yeah, about that...

The U.S. economy lost the title of "world's biggest" to the euro zone this week as the value of the dollar slumped in currency markets.

Taking the gross domestic product of both economies in 2007, the combined GDP of the 15 countries which use the euro overtook that of the United States when the European currency surged to a record high of more than $1.56 per euro.
http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSL1491971920080314?feedType=RSS&feedName=wtMostRead

[Uthgar the Brazen]

Meanwhile, in another universe, George W Bush declared victory (again):

Huzzah! Five years in and we're STILL WINNING!

Forget all that flotsam about middle class people with jobs living in tent cities. Does that detract in any way from the FACT that we're still the greatest country on earth? Not just no, but fuck no!

God Bless America!

Let the eagle soar like she's never soared before!

YOO!!! ESS!!! AY!!!

YOO!!! ESS!!! AY!!!

YOO!!! ESS!!! AY!!!
Oh yeah, about that...

The U.S. economy lost the title of "world's biggest" to the euro zone this week as the value of the dollar slumped in currency markets.

Taking the gross domestic product of both economies in 2007, the combined GDP of the 15 countries which use the euro overtook that of the United States when the European currency surged to a record high of more than $1.56 per euro.
http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSL1491971920080314?feedType=RSS&feedName=wtMostRead

STOP MOCKING AMERICA'S INADEQUATE PENIS! :glare:

[Veritas]

Did Bush mention anything in his speech about not supporting future dictators and building-bombers even if it was expedient? No? Oh, well...

I must have missed that bit, along with the part where he condemned China's human rights record.

What? Aw hell, the yellow-skinned squinty-eyed people look the same as the brown-skinned aaay-rabs to me.

[Uthgar the Brazen]

Did Bush mention anything in his speech about not supporting future dictators and building-bombers even if it was expedient? No? Oh, well...

I must have missed that bit, along with the part where he condemned China's human rights record.

What? Aw hell, the yellow-skinned squinty-eyed people look the same as the brown-skinned aaay-rabs to me.

It can be difficult sometimes, but I find that the towel-heads generally use more eyeliner, and that's worked out pretty well for me in saving myself some embarassment.

[ChuckF]

Did Bush mention anything in his speech about not supporting future dictators and building-bombers even if it was expedient? No? Oh, well...
What? Listen harder, I'm sure he did somewhere in there. Didn't he?

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/7711/bushsaudiprinceabdullahoh5.jpg

[Stephen Maturin]

Oh yeah, about that...

The U.S. economy lost the title of "world's biggest" to the euro zone this week as the value of the dollar slumped in currency markets.

Taking the gross domestic product of both economies in 2007, the combined GDP of the 15 countries which use the euro overtook that of the United States when the European currency surged to a record high of more than $1.56 per euro.
http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSL1491971920080314?feedType=RSS&feedName=wtMostRead

It's not as though we needed it or anything, but this is just further proof that the formation of the European Union heralds the beginning of the end, as described in the Book of Revelations. All the more reason for God's Chosen Nation to continue preparing the world for the Lord's return.

God Bless, eagle soar, YOO!!! ESS!!!, etc.

[ChuckF]

Oh yeah, about that...

The U.S. economy lost the title of "world's biggest" to the euro zone this week as the value of the dollar slumped in currency markets.

Taking the gross domestic product of both economies in 2007, the combined GDP of the 15 countries which use the euro overtook that of the United States when the European currency surged to a record high of more than $1.56 per euro.
http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSL1491971920080314?feedType=RSS&feedName=wtMostRead
STFU international community. Socialist Europe better watch out; the free market is gonna clean up this mess and fast!

[Sock Puppet]

It's not as though we needed it or anything, but this is just further proof that the formation of the European Union heralds the beginning of the end, as described in the Book of Revelations. All the more reason for God's Chosen Nation to continue preparing the world for the Lord's return.

God Bless, eagle soar, YOO!!! ESS!!!, etc.
http://www.mundosimpson.com.ar/imagenes/technical/1f03.jpg

[Nullifidian]

I'll tell you what's depressing: in America's [formerly] seventh [and currently eighth] largest city, the organization that has something planned for tonight didn't bother to notify the local newspaper, or weekly free newsmagazines, so there's not a hint of a reference to their vigil tonight outside of their own website. Moreover, they apparently have a maximum allowance for attendance, so they're asking people to RSVP!

What the fuck is wrong with the anti-war movement here? :no:

[Uthgar the Brazen]

Anti-war gestures in the 'States are a fucking laugh riot. As if death and destruction are moved to repentance by polite, well-ordered statements and giant fucking puppets.

[Caligulette]

Anti-war gestures in the 'States are a fucking laugh riot. As if death and destruction are moved to repentance by polite, well-ordered statements and giant fucking puppets.

Mmmmm, puppets! That'll show 'em! Here, it rained, hailed, and rained some more- rendering the enormous papier mache heads a bit blobbier than usual. There was a constant, desperate refrain of, "We'll force the Democrats back to the Left!". It'd be cute, if lives weren't riding on it.

[Nullifidian]

Mmmmm, puppets! That'll show 'em! Here, it rained, hailed, and rained some more- rendering the enormous papier mache heads a bit blobbier than usual. There was a constant, desperate refrain of, "We'll force the Democrats back to the Left!". It'd be cute, if lives weren't riding on it.

Back? Doesn't that presuppose that the Democrats have ever been on the Left?

[California Tanker]

"In Iraq," he said, "we are witnessing the first large-scale Arab uprising against Osama Bin Laden. And the significance of this development cannot be overstated."
In fact of course the US is paying former insurgents $10 a day not to fight them. And even that is unraveling, some of them have gone on strike.

If you don't focus only on the paid "CLCs", or whatever they're called these days, he's right. Former pro-AQ insurgents in Baquabah, for example, started helping US forces before being paid to do so.

NTM

[California Tanker]

I'll tell you what's depressing: in America's seventh largest city, the organization that has something planned for tonight didn't bother to notify the local newspaper, or weekly free newsmagazines, so there's not a hint of a reference to their vigil tonight outside of their own website. Moreover, they apparently have a maximum allowance for attendance, so they're asking people to RSVP!

San Antonio? I know there are some Blue parts of Texas, but I didn't think SanAn was one of them. Maybe they just want to keep a low profile?

NTM

[Uthgar the Brazen]

I'll tell you what's depressing: in America's seventh largest city, the organization that has something planned for tonight didn't bother to notify the local newspaper, or weekly free newsmagazines, so there's not a hint of a reference to their vigil tonight outside of their own website. Moreover, they apparently have a maximum allowance for attendance, so they're asking people to RSVP!

San Antonio? I know there are some Blue parts of Texas, but I didn't think SanAn was one of them. Maybe they just want to keep a low profile?

NTM

Low-profile protests of any kind are the caffeine-free Diet Coke of moral outrage.

[ChuckF]

Dick Cheney is feeling a little nostalgic (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/03/cheney_on_five_years_in_iraq_a.html):

This long-term struggle became urgent on the morning of September 11th, 2001. That day we saw clearly that dangers can gather far from our own shores and find us right there at home. So the United States made a decision: To hunt down the evil of terrorism and kill it where it grows, to hold the supporters of terror to account, and to confront regimes that harbor terrorists and threaten the peace.

Understanding all the dangers of this new era, we have no intention of abandoning our friends, or allowing this country of 170,000 square miles to become a staging area for further attacks against Americans.

[Watser?]

"In Iraq," he said, "we are witnessing the first large-scale Arab uprising against Osama Bin Laden. And the significance of this development cannot be overstated."
In fact of course the US is paying former insurgents $10 a day not to fight them. And even that is unraveling, some of them have gone on strike.

If you don't focus only on the paid "CLCs", or whatever they're called these days, he's right. Former pro-AQ insurgents in Baquabah, for example, started helping US forces before being paid to do so.

NTM

He is not right by a long shot:
1) It's hardly a 'large scale uprising'
2) Some of them have gone on strike or just went home already
3) There was no al Qaeda in Iraq 5 years ago. The standard of success is not: I fuck up, I make it a little better then it was after I just fucked up, but still a lot worse than before, and hey, I'm a success!
4) Obama bin Laden is still at large, remember him? Dead or alive?

[Clutch Munny]

Technically, all the quotes in the OP are accurate. The US did roll over the Iraqi army in short order (and we damn well better have done so...we don't account for over half the world's military spending for nothing), and large segments of the Iraqi population did greet US troops as liberators. The war has been over since May of 2003 and we won it handily.

It's a distinction worth considering, but I don't think the point holds up. Because there isn't really a single "technically" correct answer. On one hand, some totally expert and trustworthy authorities assure us that technically the USA never declared war on Iraq at all.

There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al Qaida or in Iraq. It was an authorization to use military force. I only want to clarify that, because there are implications. Obviously, when you talk about a war declaration, you're possibly talking about affecting treaties, diplomatic relations. And so there is a distinction in law and in practice. And we're not talking about a war declaration. This is an authorization only to use military force.

-- February 6, 2006, U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing on Wartime Executive Power and the National Security Agency's Surveillance Authority

But if we're going to go more by ordinary standards with our definition of 'war', then the military occupation of Iraq is as reasonably filed under the term as was, say, the Soviets' war in Afghanistan -- during which nobody was at pains to say, "There's no war in Afghanistan! The war was over long ago! There's just an occupation characterized by widespread violent attacks on Soviet troops."

Or the Hundred Years' War. And so forth.

So, I reckon that as long as the US is sending soldiers there to occupy the country, and they're killing and being killed by Iraqis, then it's perfectly natural to call it a war.

[godfry n. glad]

4) Obama bin Laden is still at large, remember him? Dead or alive?


It doesn't matter any more. Even if he's dead, we've helped more than replace him. Thanks to our promises to the ruling family of Saudi Arabia, we're even privileged to help pay for our own terrorization....which, handily, helps keep the fear-mongers at the controls.

[Qingdai]

I believe it was Kathleen Madigan, comedian, who said on her album "In Other Words" everyone who bought a hummer should be sent to Iraq.

[Watser?]

It never mattered, only as one more broken promise.

[Veritas]

Does anyone want to hear the Scottish definition of 'hummer'? :D

[Caligulette]

Mmmmm, puppets! That'll show 'em! Here, it rained, hailed, and rained some more- rendering the enormous papier mache heads a bit blobbier than usual. There was a constant, desperate refrain of, "We'll force the Democrats back to the Left!". It'd be cute, if lives weren't riding on it.

Back? Doesn't that presuppose that the Democrats have ever been on the Left?
Yes. Delusions know no bounds.

[Caligulette]

Technically, all the quotes in the OP are accurate. The US did roll over the Iraqi army in short order (and we damn well better have done so...we don't account for over half the world's military spending for nothing), and large segments of the Iraqi population did greet US troops as liberators. The war has been over since May of 2003 and we won it handily.

It's a distinction worth considering, but I don't think the point holds up. Because there isn't really a single "technically" correct answer. On one hand, some totally expert and trustworthy authorities assure us that technically the USA never declared war on Iraq at all.

There was not a war declaration, either in connection with Al Qaida or in Iraq. It was an authorization to use military force. I only want to clarify that, because there are implications. Obviously, when you talk about a war declaration, you're possibly talking about affecting treaties, diplomatic relations. And so there is a distinction in law and in practice. And we're not talking about a war declaration. This is an authorization only to use military force.

-- February 6, 2006, U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing on Wartime Executive Power and the National Security Agency's Surveillance Authority

But if we're going to go more by ordinary standards with our definition of 'war', then the military occupation of Iraq is as reasonably filed under the term as was, say, the Soviets' war in Afghanistan -- during which nobody was at pains to say, "There's no war in Afghanistan! The war was over long ago! There's just an occupation characterized by widespread violent attacks on Soviet troops."

Or the Hundred Years' War. And so forth.

So, I reckon that as long as the US is sending soldiers there to occupy the country, and they're killing and being killed by Iraqis, then it's perfectly natural to call it a war.

The "implications" also affect the pay rates of those at war, or, erm...rather, who are partaking in military actions, and what kind of benefits they might get after (medical care).

[Freddy]

For more than 4 years Bush and company used a failed strategy in Iraq which killed 3,500 Americans, most of whom died from the IEDs planted on or by a road. It was shear stupidity to let that useless slaughter go on. Then finally, someone found a new strategy that seemed to work. Why did that take over 4 years? None of Bush's and Cheney's families or friends suffered any casualties from Iraq! They both are just plain stupid! We are too for not ending it!

As for anti-war groups. In Vietnam over 500k troops were there, while 150k troops are in Iraq. Vietnam accounted for 58k dead while Iraq accounts for 4k. US population since 1973 has increased from 200-300 million, which makes the personal connection to a dead or wounded soldier much less likely. The US military controls/censors the media's access to report the ground war, unlike in Vietnam where the war was shown up close and personal every night on the TV news. The Tet Offensive was a media coup, while it was a military failure for the VC/NLF.

[Watser?]

This war will bankrupt you though.

And talking about that: that is what Osama bin Laden said he would do to the US.

[Veritas]

Don't worry about it. The towel-heads are after us now.

Linky (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7306002.stm).

[Stephen Maturin]

This war will bankrupt you though.

And talking about that: that is what Osama bin Laden said he would do to the US.

Yep. "Mission Accomplished" indeed.

[Watser?]

That's probably why he's moving on to a new target. :unnod:

But we can fight him with cartoons, much cheaper :D

[Veritas]

I'm going to wash my hair now. And after I have, I shall keep the towel on my head and slap on lots of eyeliner to look like an aaay-rab so they don't come for me.

Durka durka!

[godfry n. glad]

If it's five years since the invasion, it must be....what?...three years since "Mission Accomplished"?

Yeah, that's going well.

In Vietnam over 500k troops were there, while 150k troops are in Iraq. Vietnam accounted for 58k dead while Iraq accounts for 4k.

And how many additional Americans are there as "contractor employees"? And how many of those are gun-toting mercenaries?

[Watser?]

I'm going to wash my hair now. And after I have, I shall keep the towel on my head and slap on lots of eyeliner to look like an aaay-rab so they don't come for me.

Durka durka!

Predator drone will take you out.

[Veritas]

Durka durka, death to infidels! Durka.

[godfry n. glad]

This war will bankrupt you though.

And talking about that: that is what Osama bin Laden said he would do to the US.

Yep. "Mission Accomplished" indeed.

What do you expect? We trained him well and set him off on a well-provisioned start and then helped pay his way.

[ChuckF]

If it's five years since the invasion, it must be....what?...three years since "Mission Accomplished"?

Yeah, that's going well.

And four-and-a-half since "bring it on."

[Watser?]

This war will bankrupt you though.

And talking about that: that is what Osama bin Laden said he would do to the US.

Yep. "Mission Accomplished" indeed.

What do you expect? We trained him well and set him off on a well-provisioned start and then helped pay his way.

They grow up so fast :byecry:

[Veritas]

Durka durka! Long live Obama! Durka. I mean OSAMA! OSAMA!

Durka oh shit...I'm for it now. Viva la towelheads!

[ChuckF]

What do you expect? We trained him well and set him off on a well-provisioned start and then helped pay his way.

They grow up so fast :byecry:
Treason! Slander!
:tard:

[Angakuk]

4) Obama bin Laden is still at large, remember him? Dead or alive?
Obama?

[Veritas]

Your possible new president is Obama bin Saddam, or something. Infidels, beware!

[Stephen Maturin]

:laugh:

That "Obama is a whacked-out Black Muslim extremist" thing is really starting to grow legs, isn't it?

[California Tanker]

The "implications" also affect the pay rates of those at war, or, erm...rather, who are partaking in military actions.

Eh? I got all the appropriate financial benefits. What allowance are you suggesting I missed out on?

NTM

[Watser?]

4) Obama bin Laden is still at large, remember him? Dead or alive?
Obama?

:eek: :doh:

[Caligulette]

08/27/2003-
Within the first six months of the war. (http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/?page=article&id=1103)
Defense Department officials have characterized as “absurd” the notion that they support a pay reduction Oct. 1 for troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. The notion arose, however, within the department itself.

Despite a hurried press conference Aug. 14 to ease the impact on troop morale, Defense officials still couldn’t explain in detail how U.S. occupation forces would avoid a pay cut if Congress follows the Bush administration’s own advice and allows up to $225 a month in special pay raises to expire.

In July, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and staff corresponded with the chairmen of the armed services committees to give guidance to House-Senate conferees on resolving differences in separate versions of the 2004 defense bills. Among items Rumsfeld and staff opposed were “unrequested” increases in pays and allowances including a $150-a-month increase in Family Separation Allowance (FSA) and a $75-a-month boost in Imminent Danger Pay (IDP).
Bring 'em on. Fight with the army you have....

[ChuckF]

Ah, more fond memories. You stay classy, Abu Ghraib. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2008-03-18-abu-ghraib_N.htm?csp=34).

I guess after the picture came out the insurgency picked up and Iraqis attacked the Americans and the British and they attacked in return and they were just killing each other. I felt bad about it ... no, I felt pissed off. If the media hadn't exposed the pictures to that extent, then thousands of lives would have been saved

[Uthgar the Brazen]

Why wasn't the person who gave her access to firearms also tried and convicted?

:facepalm:

[Dingfod]

Ms. England must be a fan of the TV show 24.

[Sock Puppet]

Isn't 24 the documentary 9u11iani used as incontrovertible evidence in the Republican debates? Or was that Romney? I can't keep my blatherers straight anymore.

[California Tanker]

Bring 'em on. Fight with the army you have....

Seems to me that the DoD had a point.

One gets a combat patch and the various financial 'combat' benefits just sitting in an air conditioned office in Qatar, living in a hotel. They are probably correct in saying that instead of a general continuation of the package, a more tailored one should be used. Note also that the 'cuts' are not actually cuts, just a termination of the 'bonus' on the allowances which were not even in place when the war started, which temselves had an expiration date implemented by Congress when they were created.

NTM

[Sauron]

Durka durka! Long live Obama! Durka. I mean OSAMA! OSAMA!

Durka oh shit...I'm for it now. Viva la towelheads!

You're so inappropriate. The proper terms are:

sand nigger
raghead
dune coon

Don't make me correct you next time.

[ChuckF]

4000.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8679/0324georgebushgettyau6.jpg