OMFG... Obama is an ELITIST!!!!1!11!!

[Crumb]

So there's some shit in the news where Obama said something that made everyone think that he thought that he was better and above all the American people that he would like to vote for him.

So the reporters do their job and go dig up some other shit he said a while ago on a TV show that also made it obvious that he thought he was a little smarter than a large number of people.

For some reason the reporters all freaking out about how "elitist" Obama is, now. And McCain and Clinton are foaming at the mouth and shaking their heads in mock disappointment in how horrible it is that Obama believes himself to be smarter then some other people. :eek:

What the hell is wrong with these people? Do they want a president that is not smarter than the average American? Or do they just want a president who doesn't know they are smarter than most Americans? Do they think that McCain and Clinton believe themselves to be just average chuckle heads who happen to be running for president? :shrug: I don't get it.

[Legs]

:laugh:

[wei yau]

Absolutely right, Crumb.

Remember how so many people loved Bush because he was a guy you could have a beer with, clearly indicating that Gore was too much of a snob.

Being slapped with the "elitist" label was a tactic used against Gore and Kerry to great effect.

I'm just surprised it took this long.

[Adam]

The pretense that anyone running a serious presidential campaign can possibly not be a member of the nation's elite would be funny if it weren't taken so fucking seriously by the media.

[yguy]

What the hell is wrong with these people? Do they want a president that is not smarter than the average American?I don't know, but the question has no meaning as far as the empty suit in question is concerned.

[Kevlar]

That why people liked Bill Clinton so much. He was clearly intelligent but also seemed like the guy who runs the keg at a frat party.

I'm wondering if people are really buying this line about Obama. Has his approval rating gone down?

[Adam]

According to the PA primary polling, no.

[Sauron]

What the hell is wrong with these people? Do they want a president that is not smarter than the average American?I don't know, but the question has no meaning as far as the empty suit in question is concerned.

Since there is no empty suit in question, your comment is a non sequitir.

[Watser?]

I thought after 7 years of a president who is clearly not more intelligent than any American, people would have figured out by now that is not a good thing.

[California Tanker]

Latest poll I saw had Clinton open up a bit of a gap again, from 6% minimum to 9%. (Some other polls have her up a lot further).
The whole line about Pennsylvanians turning to guns and religion because they're bitter hasn't done him any wonders the last week

In what is pretty much the most gun-friendly State in the Union (On both sides of the aisle: About half of all voters own a gun, and the State constitution is pretty explicit on the issue), and one which also has a reasonably religious population, that didn't go down too well. He's already facing lots of flak over the gun issue: He's been trying to claim a more moderate position in PA, but the locals aren't buying it.

NTM

[freemonkey]

If the news shows would show what Obama said in context, I think it would less of a big deal. But then, that wouldn't be "politics", now, would it?

As for Hillary, how much lower can she sink?

[TomJoe]

As for Hillary, how much lower can she sink?
Obviously not far enough, otherwise Bill would never have turned to Monica.

:rimshot:

[Uthgar the Brazen]

Latest poll I saw had Clinton open up a bit of a gap again, from 6% minimum to 9%. (Some other polls have her up a lot further).
The whole line about Pennsylvanians turning to guns and religion because they're bitter hasn't done him any wonders the last week

In what is pretty much the most gun-friendly State in the Union (On both sides of the aisle: About half of all voters own a gun, and the State constitution is pretty explicit on the issue), and one which also has a reasonably religious population, that didn't go down too well. He's already facing lots of flak over the gun issue: He's been trying to claim a more moderate position in PA, but the locals aren't buying it.

NTM

Yeah, but best I can tell he's not taking any from people that otherwise were going to vote for him. Political non-issue.

[California Tanker]

Yeah, but best I can tell he's not taking any from people that otherwise were going to vote for him. Political non-issue.

In many states where the line is more clearly drawn (i.e. where gun owners tend to be nearly exclusively Republican), I'd agree with you. Pennsylvania is not one of those States, and many Democratic PA Legislature representatives (Whose voters Obama is fighting for) side with their Republican counterparts on those issues, and where some D-PA Congressmen are rated "A" by the NRA. There are a few other States like that, but outside of Vermont and, to an extent Virginia, PA is the only Eastern one, and certainly the biggest.

If the news shows would show what Obama said in context, I think it would less of a big deal.

The whole transcript is available.

So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.

Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

Now, I'm a simple lad, but if you can explain to me why I cling to guns as a way to explain my frustrations (in any context at all), I'll be interested to hear it.

NTM

[Adam]

Not that I can read minds or anything, but it sounds like a clumsily spoken version of what's been common wisdom on the left for some time now. It's not that a shitty economy leads to religion, gun ownership, racism, etc. It's more that the Democrats have done such a piss poor job responding to the economic concerns of working people, who should really be their bread and butter demographic, that the Republicans, whose economic policies generally favor the wealthy rather than the working class, have been able to sell them on God, Guns, & Gays wedge issues. If neither party is going to do a damn thing for me economically, I may as well vote on other issues, right?

I don't know for a fact that 's what he was trying to say, but it's certainly a common opinion among the target audience of his San Francisco speech, and the dig at Clinton makes sense in that context.

[Adam]

In many states where the line is more clearly drawn (i.e. where gun owners tend to be nearly exclusively Republican), I'd agree with you. Pennsylvania is not one of those States, and many Democratic PA Legislature representatives (Whose voters Obama is fighting for) side with their Republican counterparts on those issues, and where some D-PA Congressmen are rated "A" by the NRA. There are a few other States like that, but outside of Vermont and, to an extent Virginia, PA is the only Eastern one, and certainly the biggest.

Just among PA Democratic primary voters, I've seen three polls since the "bitter" comment. One has Obama up 2 points since last week, one has HRC up 2 points since last week, and one shows no change from last week. It's possible that Democratic primary voters in PA aren't a good barometer for the voters you're talking about, but I don't see any evidence that this has hurt him significantly, despite the media tempest around it.

[Stephen Maturin]

OMFG... Obama is an ELITIST!!!!1!11!!

Not just an elitist but a COMMIE elitist (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/14/opinion/14kristol.html?_r=3&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin), according to ubergenius Bill Kristol.

[freemonkey]

Not that I can read minds or anything, but it sounds like a clumsily spoken version of what's been common wisdom on the left for some time now. It's not that a shitty economy leads to religion, gun ownership, racism, etc. It's more that the Democrats have done such a piss poor job responding to the economic concerns of working people, who should really be their bread and butter demographic, that the Republicans, whose economic policies generally favor the wealthy rather than the working class, have been able to sell them on God, Guns, & Gays wedge issues. If neither party is going to do a damn thing for me economically, I may as well vote on other issues, right?

I don't know for a fact that 's what he was trying to say, but it's certainly a common opinion among the target audience of his San Francisco speech, and the dig at Clinton makes sense in that context.

I can't remember where exactly I read it last night, but I read part of an interview he gave yesterday where he said essentially that.

[Brimshack]

I'm always amazed at the ease to which those actively promoting the interests of the narrowest elites manage to find elitism in others. Most notably, they tend to find it in anyone who calls them on their own shit.

[Caligulette]

I rather liked the "bitter" thing, it made some sense. But of course, he's making a rapid retreat from that line, eh?

Phildelphians are happy. HAPPY! Not bitter. HAPPY!! Happy with their godly guns! Happy!

[godfry n. glad]

The chucklehead who is currently in office is one of the most glaring elitists in the country....he's part of an elitist monied American political dynasty and has decided to repeatedly ignore the needs and demands of the US public to advance his own family and social class agendas.

Americans need to stop judging on the basis of what somebody looks like.

It was my understanding that Obama made the comment about "small town Americans" being "bitter"....well, shit...sure...small town America has suffered a huge depopulation and economic marginalization in the face of the massive urbanization which has taken place, and continues to take place, on the American scene. Big whoop. So Obama has pointed out the obvious.

Should he begin campaigning as "Obama...Dumber than a bag of hammers, but a decent fun guy"?

Obama...The Kelso of American politics?

I'm with Watser? here...You'd think that the voting public in the US would be heartily tired of that "guy with whom you could have a beer", who then plied them with Mickey Finns, and with the assistance of his coterie, stole their wallets and jewelry, fraudulantly charged up their charge cards, installed illegal listening devices on them, and abused their sons upon false premises.

[Artemis Entreri]

-I just love how Hillary immediately pulled a "I-grew-up-in-a-working-class,-Christian-family-and-shot-guns-with-my-grandpappy-out-behind-the-barn" speech out of her ass. I bet if it had been McCain making a pro-gun statement she could have had a " i met a family in Crapkicker, AR who's son accidently killed himself with his father's pistol" story made up just as quickly.
Obama's got them running scared and grasping at straws.

[Angakuk]

The one bright spot in this whole pile of nonsense is that it is now possible to accuse a black man in America of being elitist. We've come a long way baby!

[godfry n. glad]

Isn't that what we were aiming for...to judge a man upon the content of his character, not on the color of his skin?

I hadn't thought of that, but thanks for raising it, Ang.

[Farren]

The one bright spot in this whole pile of nonsense is that it is now possible to accuse a black man in America of being elitist. We've come a long way baby!


Some in the left blogosphere are claiming "elitist" is code for "uppity". I'm not convinced.

[davidm]

I'm with Watser? here...You'd think that the voting public in the US would be heartily tired of that "guy with whom you could have a beer."

Long-Awaited Beer with Bush Really Awkward, Voter Reports. (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/42590)

[Adam]

Some in the left blogosphere are claiming "elitist" is code for "uppity". I'm not convinced.

I'd be more apt to buy that had the "elitist" label not been attached to virtually every Democrat to run for public office in the last 20 years.

[Angakuk]

I think that the meaning of "elitist" is an open question. It is practically axiomatic that serious contenders for the office of President of the United States are members of some elite group. Whether they are members of a social elite, a financial elite or an educated elite is somewhat beside the point. The more relevant question is whether or not the individual has an "elitist" attitude. In other words, do they believe, or act as if they believe, that they are better than others who are not part of their particular elite group, simply by reason of the fact that they belong and the others do not?

I am not sure how I would rate Obama in terms of attitude. I do think that one of the possible benefits of an Obama presidency is that it could provide a different kind of high-profile role model for black youths, particulary young black men.

[godfry n. glad]

I am not sure how I would rate Obama in terms of attitude. I do think that one of the possible benefits of an Obama presidency is that it could provide a different kind of high-profile role model for black youths, particulary young black men.

Different? As in better?

Does a professional politician have higher status than an MC? Should they?

[Angakuk]

No, different as in different. If I had meant 'better' I would have written 'better'. It was not intended as a reference to Obama's being a professional politician. That particular role model is already reasonably well represented in the black community. Black man as POTUS is not.

[godfry n. glad]

That's my point. Of late, the POTUS is not held in particular high esteem.

Maybe that's just me.

[Angakuk]

That is an attitude I would expect from a treasonous Cascadian partisan.

[godfry n. glad]

:boogerflick:
That is an attitude I would expect from a treasonous Cascadian partisan.

[Angakuk]

Obviously, I have no hope of defeating such a forceful and compelling argument as that.

[godfry n. glad]

What?

Your assertion got the attention it deserved.

[Qingdai]

I'm with Watser? here...You'd think that the voting public in the US would be heartily tired of that "guy with whom you could have a beer."

Long-Awaited Beer with Bush Really Awkward, Voter Reports. (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/42590)

That's just how I think it would go too.

"Overall, it was okay, I suppose," Reinard said. " One thing's for sure, though—I still wouldn't want to have a beer with that stuck-up Kerry."

Oddly my dad took Kerry out on a boat in the 1960s when he was came to Seattle to speak against the Vietnam War. My dad said it wasn't awkward.

I'm thinking Godfrey, Angakuk could be complimenting you.

[California Tanker]

Not that I can read minds or anything, but it sounds like a clumsily spoken version of what's been common wisdom on the left for some time now.

Your logic makes some sense, but as good an orator as Obama is, it's an extremely unusual whoopsie to 'clumsy' of that extent.

Still, Hillary's getting more pathetic by the day. Gone from "I shot a duck once" to "Look! I can drink alcohol! I'm human!"

NTM

[godfry n. glad]

Not that I can read minds or anything, but it sounds like a clumsily spoken version of what's been common wisdom on the left for some time now.

Your logic makes some sense, but as good an orator as Obama is, it's an extremely unusual whoopsie to 'clumsy' of that extent.

I don't think it was clumsy at all. I actually read the blogger's transcript of his comments. If you read that, you'll get an entirely different picture than what the press, and the leaker, has been spinning in the media. When you see that he skewers both actual and prospective opponents by drawing attention to their malignant neglect for small town America by their political predecessors. No wonder all the opponents are spinning their inadequate interpretations.

Still, Hillary's getting more pathetic by the day. Gone from "I shot a duck once" to "Look! I can drink alcohol! I'm human!"

NTM

That I'll agree with. She might have gotten some traction if she'd claimed she shot an attorney....no, wait...she IS an attorney, that'd be a violation of professional courtesy.

Ah, well, that accomplishment will have to go to the grave with Dickhead Cheney....soon, hopefully.

[erimir]

The problem is that a lot of blue-collar Republicans have been duped. But pointing out that they've been duped will only make them defensive.

"Are you saying I'm a chump?! In that case I will vote against my own interests again! Ha, I sure showed you!"

/élitist (spelled the élite way)

[Adam]

Still, Hillary's getting more pathetic by the day. Gone from "I shot a duck once" to "Look! I can drink alcohol! I'm human!"

Hee. Her "look at me, I can drink!" event happened in Crown Point, Indiana, very close to the town where I grew up. OMG, HRC has done a shot of Crown in close proximity to bars where I've done shots of Crown! She has my vote!!!111ONE!

[Adam]

Krugman's column today deals with the theory I described above:

Clinging to a Stereotype (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/opinion/18krugman.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

In his Op-Ed, Mr. Bartels cited data showing that small-town, working-class Americans are actually less likely than affluent metropolitan residents to vote on the basis of religion and social values. Nor have working-class voters trended Republican over time; on the contrary, Democrats do better with these voters now than they did in the 1960s.

It’s true that Americans who attend church regularly are more likely to vote Republican. But contrary to the stereotype, this relationship is weak at low incomes but strong among high-income voters. That is, to the extent that religion helps the G.O.P., it’s not by convincing the working class to vote against its own interests, but by producing supermajorities among the evangelical affluent.

So why have Republicans won so many elections? In his book, “Unequal Democracy,” Mr. Bartels shows that “the shift of the Solid South from Democratic to Republican control in the wake of the civil rights movement” explains all — literally all — of the Republican success story.

Interesting. I dug up a paper where Mr. bartels describes his findings: PDF (http://www.princeton.edu/~bartels/kansas.pdf)

[godfry n. glad]

I ran across this in another locale, and thought it succinctly stated some of my opinions on the matter:

Slacktivist (http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2008/04/who-do-we-shoot.html)