"Baptisms" for atheists

[Bella]

Q (http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm222/bjatzo/may%202008/mothersday.jpg) is now three weeks old!

I have a question about baptisms. I grew up Baptist which meant that children weren't baptised at birth - it was encouraged for them to 'choose' when they were ready (usually at nine years of age or so) so I don't know anything about infant baptisms. Anyway. My best friend and her husband are the two people I want to name as guardians for Q should something happen to me. However, I was told that baptisms in churches are now all about "spiritual parentage" and that actual "you are the child's parents should something happen to me" is no longer part of it.

So instead of a church thing, could I just wrap up the legal bits and pieces with my friend and her husband and then have a small get-together in honour of it? Is that something that you need to have a lawyer for - the legal parts, I mean, not the get-together :P. Or is the naming of guardianship a religious thing mostly and not really relevant to non-Christians?

[Dingfod]

You mean like naming godparents and a christening? As far as I know, either are almost nonexistent outside Catholicism, certainly not a legal or civil ceremony.

[wildernesse]

Naming a guardian for your child if you die is a legal step, and you would need to speak to an attorney about creating documents that would do that successfully. It is relevant to all parents and has nothing to do with religion--if you don't do it, the state will decide who cares for your child. You can ask for a referral from the state bar association to an attorney in your state who practices in family law and estate planning--google "[state] attorney referral service" and that should give you a number to call.

Religious guardians/godparents, from what I can tell, simply name people that would train the child in the religion if you were no longer there. It's not part of my religious tradition, so I'm not sure if they have other duties.

[godfry n. glad]

Hmmm...I don't know. It probably depends upon the legal restrictions of your locality. It sounds like you want to select your child's legal guardians in the event of your incapacitation preventing you from caring for your child....

As for "godmother" and "godfather", once you've got your selected legal guardians all lined up and vetted by the local legal and political structure, you might want to throw a little party and announce it and present the godlessparents to friends and family.

Make your own customs and traditions.

[InTheServiceOfZeke]

ah, baptism for atheists. :)

(cute kid!!)

[InTheServiceOfZeke]

btw...i think John The Bastard performed the first one. he would take people and hold them under the water until they agreed to stop being stupid.

many died.

[Dingfod]

You are so full of shit.

[InTheServiceOfZeke]

it's true!!

[Angakuk]

Baptism and Christening are basically different names for the same thing and, if I am not mistaken, Christening refers, almost exclusively, to the practice of pedobaptism (child baptism). Christening is historically associated with the practice of giving the child its Christian name (usually the name of a Saint) at the time of baptism. It may (I don't know this for certain) also reflect the practice of annointing the baptized with oil (chrism). Churches that practice credobaptism (believer baptism) often have a rite of Dedication that fulfills some of the ritual functions of an infant baptism, without the baptism. Godparents (or sponsors) have, historically, filled a primarily spiritual function. Although, it is not uncommon for parents to select as sponsors the people they would most want to entrust their children to in the event that they were rendered unable to care for them themselves. In the US, to the best of my knowledge, the naming of Godparents has never established a legal relationship between the Godparents and the child. So yeah, Baptism and Godparents are mostly all about religion (that and making the grandparents happy).

If atheists do choose to have their child baptized they should probably use dehydrated water.

[Dingfod]

Of just water.

[Caligulette]

I have heard of a "naming ceremony" as done by some pagans I know. They chose a "goddess mother" for their kid (because it's sooo much different than a "godmother" :rolleyes: ). I have asked a few people I know to let Caligukid know about my beliefs if I die. Not to Raise Up a Good Socialist, but so that he'll know what I thought if he's interested. We have not had a Big Red Ceremony about it, though.

As has been stated- legal guardianship is a legal thing, which would do to have a lawyer. And I will recommend Catholic Charities for a referral, as they have a number of people who do pro-bono work. (You do not have to be Catholic.) In your case in particular, you might also check with a women's shelter as well to see if they have any programs in place. (I wish you lived in DC, because then I could say "go here (http://www.weaveincorp.org/)". They were wonderful.)

If you want a naming ceremony, or a "welcome to society at large" ceremony, or whatever other kind of celebration, go for it.

[LadyShea]

Naming the legal guardian in case of your death or incapacitation should be a part of your legal paperwork, including a will, last wishes, life insurance, and living will.

Have you even gotten custody and child support worked out with Q's father? First things, first, Bella.

[godfry n. glad]

I'm with Dingfod, here. Go with just water.

It may (I don't know this for certain) also reflect the practice of annointing the baptized with oil (chrism).

WHAT?

They want to make the kid a christ, right outta the womb?

Isn't that tradition now call "Ashcrofting" your kid?

And, are you sure it's not a practice of annoying the baptized, rather than annointing?

[Bella]

Naming the legal guardian in case of your death or incapacitation should be a part of your legal paperwork, including a will, last wishes, life insurance, and living will.

Have you even gotten custody and child support worked out with Q's father? First things, first, Bella.
Q's father signed the paper acknowledging paternity and relinquishing all custodial and visitation rights to me. Child support is a little more difficult - I have to go to the county courthouse to file those papers, and I intend on doing so this week.

I'm actually concerned about the legal guardianship thing in case something should go wrong with my psychiatric care and I would need to go back to the hospital. I do not want Q's father or my own parents to have anything to do with caring for him should I be out of commission for a while. My medical team doesn't think that I will get to the point of hospitalisation but I am being a little extra-cautious since I had to start anxiety meds this week.

[Caligulette]

:hug:

[LadyShea]

Call and ask a clerk at the courthouse if there is a form for naming temporary guardians in the case of your death or incapacitation that you can file. Also, have you named anyone your legal next of kin with your medical power of attorney who would take care of your affairs should you become incapacitated? Maybe they should be the same people to whom you'd entrust your son.

Found some helpful info with a simple for you can type up now https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=257B.04

The form itself

"I (insert name of designator) do hereby appoint (insert name, address, and telephone number
of standby or temporary custodian) as the standby or temporary custodian of (insert name(s) of
child(ren)) to take effect upon the occurrence of the following triggering event or events (insert
specific triggering events).
I am the (insert designator's relationship to child(ren)) of (insert name(s) of child(ren)).
(Insert name(s) of child(ren)'s other parent) is the other parent of (insert name(s) of child(ren)).
The other parent's address is:
(check all that apply):
.... The other parent died on (insert date of death).
.... The other parent's parental rights were terminated on (insert date of termination).
.... The other parent's whereabouts are unknown. I understand that all living parents whose
rights have not been terminated must be given notice of this designation pursuant to the Minnesota
Rules of Civil Procedure or a petition to approve this designation may not be granted by the court.
.... The other parent is unwilling and unable to make and carry out day-to-day child-care
decisions concerning the child(ren).
.... The other parent consents to this designation and has signed this form below.
By this designation I am granting (insert name of standby or temporary custodian) the
authority to act for 60 days following the occurrence of the triggering event as a co-custodian
with me, or in the event of my death, as custodian of my child(ren).
A temporary custodian appointment terminates upon the death of the designator.
(Optional) I hereby nominate (insert name, address, and telephone number of alternate
standby custodian) as the alternate standby custodian to assume the duties of the standby custodian
named above if the standby custodian is unable or unwilling to act as a standby custodian.
If I have indicated more than one triggering event, it is my intent that the triggering event
which occurs first shall take precedence. If I have indicated "my death" as the triggering event, it
is my intent that the person named in the designation to be standby custodian for my child(ren) in
the event of my death shall be appointed as guardian of my child(ren) under Minnesota Statutes,
sections 524.5-201 to 524.5-317, upon my death.
It is my intention to retain full parental rights to the extent consistent with my condition and to
retain the authority to revoke the appointment of a standby or temporary custodian if I so choose.
This designation is made after careful reflection, while I am of sound mind.
.....
.....
(Date)
(Designator's Signature)
.....
.....
(Witness' Signature)
(Witness' Signature)
.....
.....
(Number and Street)
(Number and Street)
.....
.....
(City, State, and Zip Code)
(City, State, and Zip Code)
IF APPLICABLE: I (insert name of other parent) hereby consent to this designation.
.....
.....
(Date)
(Signature of other parent)
.....
(Address of other parent)

I, (insert name of standby or temporary custodian), hereby accept my nomination as
standby or temporary custodian of (insert child(ren)'s name(s)). I understand that my rights and
responsibilities toward the child(ren) named above will become effective upon the occurrence
of the above-stated triggering event or events. I further understand that in order to continue
caring for the child(ren), I must file a petition with the court within 60 days of the occurrence of
the triggering event.
.....
.....
(Date)
(Signature of Standby or Temporary

[Prince Vegita]

I think you should sodomize a goat while eating kitten entrails in the kid's honor, as a symbol of the evil he/she will become.

[Bella]

The kid's already fascinated with WoW. That's bad enough.

[LadyShea]

I considered a baby welcome ceremony/celebration thing, and even contacted some secular celebrants. In the end though, I said fuck it.

If the legality aspect is your aim then just do the papers, if you want to celebrate your son's and your new life, with loved ones, go for it.