On The Waterfront - Game Thread

[Crumb]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MG/196122~On-the-Waterfront-Posters.jpg


Starring:
Nightson
Widget
Raf
The Tick
JamesBannon
mrickaby
beyelzu
Dolores Manapat
Skydin
cappuccino
Adam
slimshady
Smilin
Ensign Steve


Notes:

- PMs are only allowed for you if so instructed in your role PM. (And always only at night)
- There is no time limit, but one may be imposed by me if there is no progress in a long day. (Always with at least 24 notice)
- Possible Roles: Cop, Traitor, Doc, Roleblocker, Framer, vigilante and possibly others.

Longshoreman (i.e. vanilla townies) received the following role PM:
<Name>
Longshoreman

You are <Name>, a longshoreman. You are a loyal member of the union, but are fed up with the corruption that is tearing it apart. You have decided to take the law into your own hands and do something about it by figuring out who the mafia are and finally ridding the union of their destructive influence.

Your only weapons are your wits and your vote. Use them wisely.




"A canary."
"Maybe he could sing but he couldn't fly!"

A young dockworker Joey Doyle, one of the informant union workers who was planning to cooperate with crime investigators by testifying against gangsters who tyrannically control the docks was hurled from an apartment rooftop.

In the street, a shocked crowd gathers around Joey's body. One of the neighbors, Mrs. Collins knows this was no accident: "Same thing happened to my Andy five years ago...[about Joey] He was the only longshoreman that had the guts to talk to them crime investigators ... Everybody knows that." Pop Doyle laments that his son didn't follow his advice: "Kept telling him. Don't say nothin'. Keep quiet. You'll live longer." Angered by the senseless murder of the brother she was close to, Edie screams: "I want to know who killed my brother!"

Father Barry offers the basement of his church for you to talk freely, away from the prying ears of the mafia. But you know that the mob are really among you and in the church basement you are ready to take action.


Day 1 begins now. (Feel free to post after you receive your role)

8 votes needed to lynch.

Remember: The waterfront is a rough place, you really can't trust anyone.

[Crumb]

All roles have been sent.

PMs are not allowed!

[JamesBannon]

:woohoo: First post.

[Nightson]

vote: jamesbannon :D

[Widget]

Why JamesBannon?

He lives in Paisley Scotland where my ex wife came from.




Come to think of it, you do have a legitimate argument.

I agree. Vote. JamesBannon.

[Adam]

Checking in.

Vote: Crumb

Er, sorry, I meant

Vote: Nightson

Always helps to have a couple of different bandwagons on day 1, rather than dogpiling one person, and Nightson posted after James.

[Nightson]

Your plan will never work, scum!

[Dolores Manapat]

checking in

[Crumb]

Votes should be in bold. :thankee:

I'll count yours this time, Widget. :)

JamesBannon [2] - Widget, Nightson
Nightson [1] - Adam

[JamesBannon]

Sheesh! Here I am unable to sleep and being assasinated already! Thanks a bunch Nightson & Widget. :offended:

Oh, since you two were the first on the bandwagon that means one of you is probably scum. Lesee vote Nightson.

:hello: Younger sibling!

[Nightson]

OMGUS revote: jamesbannon

[Dolores Manapat]

:hai: jb!

vote nightson because he's always been scum in games I played with him. Maybe that trend continues.

[Crumb]

JamesBannon [2] - Widget, Nightson
Nightson [3] - Adam, James, Dolores

[Skydin]

Why is everyone suddenly voting for nightson with little or no proof? Oh... right, day one. Alright.

Well, since we need an obscene number of votes for a lynch, I'll Vote Nightson because we would need 3 more people to suddenly and spontaneously decide to vote for him for my vote to matter anyway.

[Nightson]

Adam, James, Dolores and Skydin are all scum. All of them. Oddly enough not because the voted for me, but because they received role pms that identified them as belonging to the scum group.

[Ensign Steve]

vote: Adam

for not being adamesque. :eyeonyou:

[The Tick]

Checking in and...

vote Widget
for not bolding vote. http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/images/icons/judge.gif

[slimshady2357]

Ok, well here we go.

I'm going to vote ES since she thinks random lynching on day 1 is just gawd-awful.

[JamesBannon]

Adam, James, Dolores and Skydin are all scum. All of them. Oddly enough not because the voted for me, but because they received role pms that identified them as belonging to the scum group.
Care to elaborate? :D

[Raf]

Well, since we need an obscene number of votes for a lynch, I'll Vote Nightson because we would need 3 more people to suddenly and spontaneously decide to vote for him for my vote to matter anyway.

Hmm, explaining why joining a bandwagon in the middle isn't really bandwagonning. Scumdar says ding.

Vote Skydin

[cappuccino]

Checking in, lots of votes flying around already!

[slimshady2357]

Well, since we need an obscene number of votes for a lynch, I'll Vote Nightson because we would need 3 more people to suddenly and spontaneously decide to vote for him for my vote to matter anyway.

Hmm, explaining why joining a bandwagon in the middle isn't really bandwagonning. Scumdar says ding.

Vote Skydin

Not to mention poor math :giggle:, Skydin's vote was #4 on Nightson, meaning 4 more votes would be needed, not 3. Scum always have poor math skills, that's what leads them to a life of crime :yup:

[Adam]

vote: Adam

for not being adamesque. :eyeonyou:

It's been too long, I don't remember how to be me! :cry:

[JamesBannon]

Well, since we need an obscene number of votes for a lynch, I'll Vote Nightson because we would need 3 more people to suddenly and spontaneously decide to vote for him for my vote to matter anyway.

Hmm, explaining why joining a bandwagon in the middle isn't really bandwagonning. Scumdar says ding.

Vote Skydin

Not to mention poor math :giggle:, Skydin's vote was #4 on Nightson, meaning 4 more votes would be needed, not 3. Scum always have poor math skills, that's what leads them to a life of crime :yup:

Ooohh... that's nasty. :eek:

[Smilin]

Checking in and trying to wake up......

Will save my vote for later...

~Smilin's still trying to recover from an overnight hike this weekend....

[beyelzu]

vote smilin

for hesitancy in voting

[beyelzu]

vote: Adam

for not being adamesque. :eyeonyou:

he is being weird, normally that sets me off.

but for now its just an fos from me

[Crumb]

JamesBannon [2] - Widget, Nightson
Nightson [4] - Adam, James, Dolores, Skydin
Adam [1] - Ensign Steve
Widget [1] - The Tick
Ensign Steve [1] - slimshady
Skydin [1] - Raf
Smilin [1] - beyelzu

[The Tick]

~Smilin's still trying to recover from an overnight hike this weekend....
It's a scumtell to hike at night! Besides, it's Tuesday now - certainly you must be okay now!

[Smilin]

Vote: The Tick

Because I pulled one of the bloodsuckers off of me this morning who had been hitching a ride since my return from our overnight hike/camping trip.

All ticks are blood suckers and thus scum imo.

[Ensign Steve]

Besides, it's Tuesday now - certainly you must be okay now!

The Tick, are you outside the U.S.? We had a three-day weekend.

[beyelzu]

Vote: The Tick

Because I pulled one of the bloodsuckers off of me this morning who had been hitching a ride since my return from our overnight hike/camping trip.

All ticks are blood suckers and thus scum imo.

and there you go reserving your vote till i give the the bullshit vote.

now i am really suspicious of you, i would revote you if i could.

[Smilin]

~Smilin's still trying to recover from an overnight hike this weekend....
It's a scumtell to hike at night! Besides, it's Tuesday now - certainly you must be okay now!

Camped at night, hiked during the daylight hours. We didn't return until late yesterday afternoon...and although recharged, refreshed, and had an awesome time with my two boys...dude, I just turned 42 last Wednesday, plus I'm at work again today...

and for the record, I've NEVER been okay.....

Just ask my estranged wife that question....LOLOLOLOLOL

[JamesBannon]

OK, this is becoming ever so slightly silly! I order you to stop the silliness this instant!

Smilin, since you've been carrying a tick around, I would watch out for fever etc. Of course, you already knew this.

[The Tick]

The Tick, are you outside the U.S.? We had a three-day weekend.
Yes, I'm outside U.S. Now I see, you had Memorial Day, right? (Snif, I was at work yesterday and we have no 3-day-weekend here...)

[Adam]

Too many votes stacked on Nightson.

Unvote: Nightson

Do we know how many scum there are?

[slimshady2357]

Too many votes stacked on Nightson.

Unvote: Nightson

Do we know how many scum there are?

I don't think so, no. We don't even know what roles there are for sure. I would guess that with 14 people, we would have 4 scum. Or maybe 3 scum and a traitor?

[beyelzu]

14 is 3 scum and probably no traitor

otherwise its slanted towards the mob

[JamesBannon]

4 scum would be a bit much for 14 players. I suggest 3 with perhaps a traitor or serial killer.

[The Tick]

- Possible Roles: Cop, Traitor, Doc, Roleblocker, Framer, vigilante and possibly others.
Also notice it says "and possibly others". 3 scums seems quite right, and then perhaps traitor/no-traitor depending on all roles...?

Too many votes stacked on Nightson.
Takes 8 to lynch... hmm, why "4 on Nightson" is "too many"?

Smilin, since you've been carrying a tick around, I would watch out for fever etc. Of course, you already knew this.
Off-topic: I was like whadda heck are you talking about since "The Tick" is a superhero name I found from the net... Bear in mind that English isn't my native language, so I went to google images and looked "tick". Just to find out it's the only one creature in the world that I'd wish to be extinct. Uh... and now I just learned a new English word... :D

[beyelzu]

3 and a traitor would be overpowered but lets not get bogged down in this

[Adam]

Takes 8 to lynch... hmm, why "4 on Nightson" is "too many"?

Without knowing how many scum are out there, I don't want to see anyone pushed too close to a lynching until we've had a chance to do the normal Day 1 round of accuse and deny. Like I said in my first post, multiple bandwagons on Day 1 are a good thing, so I tend to jump off of any bandwagon that looks liek it's heating up too fast.

[Nightson]

Setup discussions are not helpful. Moving on.

[The Tick]

Without knowing how many scum are out there, I don't want to see anyone pushed too close to a lynching until we've had a chance to do the normal Day 1 round of accuse and deny. Like I said in my first post, multiple bandwagons on Day 1 are a good thing, so I tend to jump off of any bandwagon that looks liek it's heating up too fast.

Fair enough. That "on Nightson" part just kind of got my eye...

[beyelzu]

well to be fair, adam is acting unusual and it would not be surprising for scum to go with a throwaway vote on day one

and it would espically not be surprising for adam to do it, then when votes started to pile on he backed off

so with that in mind

unvote, vote adam

you get your wish competing bandwagons.

fwiw, smilin still seems suspicious to me

[cappuccino]

This round of mafia is a little different from what I've played before, looks like we only have an absolute minimum of information to work with. :chin:

bey, is adam really suspicious looking to you or are you just throwing stuff into the mix? I dunno, adam seems to be acting like himself but then he's always been unusual.

[Adam]

adam...'s always been unusual.

:shaketea:

(That's the closest I can find to shaking capp!)

[beyelzu]

capp, adam's actions are kind of mobby

the whole, innocent vote thing is a tried and true method of mafia in early voting

the shift off the bandwagon that he started so early

way before the votes needed struck me as scummy

[Nightson]

This is how Day One works:


The purpose of Day One is twofold, to gather information and to lynch scum.

You gain information through the application of pressure. You put votes on a person, said person feels like they might get lynched, you evaluate their defense in terms of scuminess. If they behave like town then you back off and try and put the pressure on someone else. You try and lynch scum by accumulating enough data that you can make an educated guess at who is scum.

[beyelzu]

yknow nightson, whenever you get all preachy and shit about how to play mafia, i suspect you more and i want to get you lynched for being irritating.


of course my suspicion of adam requires you to be scum as well

[Nightson]

yknow nightson, whenever you get all preachy and shit about how to play mafia, i suspect you more and i want to get you lynched for being irritating.


of course my suspicion of adam requires you to be scum as well

Adam's unvote is actually what triggered it. I didn't see it as scummy, just as town who's not confident of pressuring.

[JamesBannon]

Come on, Nightson. The only reason you voted for me straight off the bat was revenge for the Lost game (did I mention we won that game? I'm sure I did!) :lol:

[Smilin]

Revenge....is a dish best served....ice cold!

[Adam]

Adam's unvote is actually what triggered it. I didn't see it as scummy, just as town who's not confident of pressuring.

More or less, especially given that I don't know how many scum are out there. I was unconsciously assuming 3 for some reason, but after reading slimshady's post about Skydin's scummy math skills, and verifying that he was correct, I realized that I didn't actually know that.

If there are more than three, Nightson was within range of a mob pile-on, and I didn't want anyone that close so early in the day.

[beyelzu]

yknow nightson, whenever you get all preachy and shit about how to play mafia, i suspect you more and i want to get you lynched for being irritating.


of course my suspicion of adam requires you to be scum as well

Adam's unvote is actually what triggered it. I didn't see it as scummy, just as town who's not confident of pressuring.

perhaps, but i dont buy it much.


and adam,

if 4 people swoop in and all vote for nightson we would have our list of targets.

i dont buy your excuse.

damn.

[beyelzu]

nightson, for the record, i totally agree with your gameplay post

votes without meaning and random votes are bullshit.

[beyelzu]

Adam's unvote is actually what triggered it. I didn't see it as scummy, just as town who's not confident of pressuring.

More or less, especially given that I don't know how many scum are out there. I was unconsciously assuming 3 for some reason, but after reading slimshady's post about Skydin's scummy math skills, and verifying that he was correct, I realized that I didn't actually know that.

If there are more than three, Nightson was within range of a mob pile-on, and I didn't want anyone that close so early in the day.

how many games have you seen with an actual mob pile on on day one?

[The Tick]

Hmm, now you beyelzu are putting more heat on Adam... Can you please tell what did you mean when you said that Adam is acting "unusual" way in this game? What unusual do you mean?

[JamesBannon]

yeah, I'd like to know too. I haven't played a game of Mafia with Adam before so I'm in the dark. It does seem to me, however, that Bey is being a bit more cautious than usual.

[Adam]

Point granted, bey...I probably pulled out too soon (huh huh huh). I saw the votes piling up and backed off.

[slimshady2357]

Setup discussions are not helpful. Moving on.

This seems silly and in fact counter helpful itself. Some people have played this game less than others, helping everyone understand the most likely scenario we are looking at would seem very helpful to the town.

The only people that I can see wanting to squelch discussion on how many scum we have is the scum themselves. In fact squelching discussion of any 'scenario possibilities' seems totally scummy to me.

unvote

vote Nightson

[beyelzu]

Hmm, now you beyelzu are putting more heat on Adam... Can you please tell what did you mean when you said that Adam is acting "unusual" way in this game? What unusual do you mean?

he was glib early, he has yet to produce a post that seemed thoughtful and weighing out options, his claim that he was worried about the mob piling on shows shoddy reasoning. something which is definitely not a hallmark of adam.

on the other hand, i have to point out that this particular theory only works cuz im highly suspicious of nightson and well, i am often highly suspicious of nightson.

take his the four people voting for me are scum comment, he, nightson, has been asked to clarify but has not deigned to do so.

so im going into this suspicious of nightson and here comes adam with a joking early vote on nightson followed by a quick jump off of the bandwagon at 4 votes.

claiming fear of a pile on then claiming that he wasnt sure of mob numbers, and then once it was pointed out that even if there were four mobs they havent voted yet, it still wouldnt matter cuz generally they arent all going to swoop down and deliver a coordinated killing blow on day one.

finally he admits that it was just a brain fart.

however, we could still lynch nightson, my suspicion only makes sense really if nightson is guilty.

[beyelzu]

yeah, I'd like to know too. I haven't played a game of Mafia with Adam before so I'm in the dark. It does seem to me, however, that Bey is being a bit more cautious than usual.

cautious?

hmmm.

alright how the fuck am i cautious??????


you setuping up a little wifom jb??

[slimshady2357]

Actually, I thought that was a strange comment too, bey. You've been anything but cautious in my mind. In fact, I was thinking that you were acting very beyesque since you were spouting off with "Adam's scummy!" and "Nightsons scummy!" and chasing after them pretty good. Which is basically the gung-ho cocksure attitude I'm used to seeing from you :D

So many dodgey statements already in this game. :hm:

[JamesBannon]

yeah, I'd like to know too. I haven't played a game of Mafia with Adam before so I'm in the dark. It does seem to me, however, that Bey is being a bit more cautious than usual.

cautious?

hmmm.

alright how the fuck am i cautious??????


you setuping up a little wifom jb??
Just not your usual confidence in the opening gambit, that's all. Nothing to FOS you on yet.

[Raf]

FOS?

/stupid noob

[Ensign Steve]

Finger of suspicion

[Raf]

Ah.. thanks.

[Smilin]

unvote

Vote Beyelzu

He's been all over the map slinging suspicions...first voting for me for being hungover and feeling like shit after just checking in and stating that I was reserving my vote for later.

Now he's spouting off about first about Adam and now Nightson and pursuing them relentlessly.

Same pattern of behavior I exhibited the last game when I was actually scum.
So, you're at the top of my list and I believe you to be scum trying to stir the pot.....

You, bey, are the one acting unusual in the game. I've seen no other unusual behavior from anyone else thus far.

[Nightson]

Setup discussions are not helpful. Moving on.

This seems silly and in fact counter helpful itself. Some people have played this game less than others, helping everyone understand the most likely scenario we are looking at would seem very helpful to the town.

The only people that I can see wanting to squelch discussion on how many scum we have is the scum themselves. In fact squelching discussion of any 'scenario possibilities' seems totally scummy to me.

unvote

vote Nightson

Scenario discussions hurt the town. Think long and hard about it and you'll realize why.

[slimshady2357]

Scenario discussions hurt the town. Think long and hard about it and you'll realize why.

Another very scum like answer, absolutely useless and of no help to anyone.

Certain scenario discussions could hurt the town, but discussing how many scum there might be isn't one of them. Unless you could explain how it might?

[JamesBannon]

Yeah, that one always gets me. I have no idea why discussing scenarios would hurt the town, unless we're speculating on which townie has a given role and no-one has done that. nevertheless, we still need info to go on if we've to identify scum.

[mrickaby]

While yes, I agree with the point Nightson is trying to make that spending too much time discussing scenarios does take away from attempting to discover scum, I also think that attempting to shut down discussion when it has not gone too far is pretty scummy.

vote Nightson for now.

[mrickaby]

ETA: Nightson always seems scummy to me, so take what I said with a grain of salt.

[Smilin]

Scenario discussions hurt the town. Think long and hard about it and you'll realize why.

I cannot think of one reason a discussion of scenarios can hurt the town? In my mind, they only serve to help the town.

Care to elaborate? I, for one, haven't a clue, except that only scum would want to suppress such discussions.

[Raf]

Too much of this is in mafia jargon and you guys seem to know each others styles too well for me to make much judgement.

This games going to be crap for me if it's all based on what you guys are normally like.

:(

[mrickaby]

Too much of this is in mafia jargon and you guys seem to know each others styles too well for me to make much judgement.

This games going to be crap for me if it's all based on what you guys are normally like.

:(

The first game is always a little tough, it is fun though. This is only my second game with most of the people here though, so I am not in much better shape than you are.

[JamesBannon]

Too much of this is in mafia jargon and you guys seem to know each others styles too well for me to make much judgement.

This games going to be crap for me if it's all based on what you guys are normally like.

:(

Hang in there, you get used to it after a little while. BTW I'm not an especially good player either, so don't give up. It's fun! :)

[Ensign Steve]

Yeah, also my comment about Adam not being like himself, was kind of just a play off of a running joke (albeit, not a very funny one). So, yeah, you need to play a few games to get the jokes, but not necessarily to do well at the game.

[Nightson]

Scenario discussions hurt the town. Think long and hard about it and you'll realize why.

I cannot think of one reason a discussion of scenarios can hurt the town? In my mind, they only serve to help the town.

Care to elaborate? I, for one, haven't a clue, except that only scum would want to suppress such discussions.

Did you get the number of scum in your role pm? No, neither did any other townsperson. How much information does it bring the town? None. This is the important part. Setup speculation gives no information to the town, neither in knowledge of the setup or in scumtells. So that sticks it right in the neutral category.

So the second question we must ask is does it help scum? And the answer is, yes. At least a little bit. When someone who is town speculates on the setup they do so knowing their own role and it's power. Like all information it is not exact or guaranteed but it is information that is given to the scum without any benefit to the town. That is why setup speculation is harmful to the town.

[Raf]

The first game is always a little tough, it is fun though. This is only my second game with most of the people here though, so I am not in much better shape than you are.



Hang in there, you get used to it after a little while. BTW I'm not an especially good player either, so don't give up. It's fun! :)

Yeah, I'm reading up on what I can find, but so far all this "you're not being your usual self", "No, you're not being your usual self" isn't helpful.

[Nightson]

*cough* that's because playstyle arguments are bullshit *cough*

[Raf]

I'm new to the game and the forum, so I didn't want to say it, but...

*cough* that's because playstyle arguments are bullshit *cough*

[JamesBannon]

The first game is always a little tough, it is fun though. This is only my second game with most of the people here though, so I am not in much better shape than you are.



Hang in there, you get used to it after a little while. BTW I'm not an especially good player either, so don't give up. It's fun! :)

Yeah, I'm reading up on what I can find, but so far all this "you're not being your usual self", "No, you're not being your usual self" isn't helpful.
A lot of that is just playing around (also called WIFOM). Some players have an identifiable style & some don't. E.g., Bey is usually quite an aggressive player - fingering people as scum, lots of accusations and such, while others are a lot quieter. Some, like me, usually play it pretty straight while others, like Nightson, like to "play games" & force people out.

Departures from "normal" game play is usually a sign that "something is up"; not necessarily that the player is a bad guy (usually called scum), but that he / she may have some special role in the game.

[Raf]

Departures from "normal" game play is usually a sign that "something is up"; not necessarily that the player is a bad guy (usually called scum), but that he / she may have some special role in the game.

Right, but there's not enough posted yet to make reliable conclusions about whether what someone has said is "normal" for them. You're throwing chaff up about how you all judge peoples play by pretending it's based on a logical assessment of their normal play compared to their current play.

Chaff doesn't help town. Play on any logic shown. Or maybe, at this stage, on any logic not shown. Don't play on a subjective judgement of normality.

[JamesBannon]

Departures from "normal" game play is usually a sign that "something is up"; not necessarily that the player is a bad guy (usually called scum), but that he / she may have some special role in the game.

Right, but there's not enough posted yet to make reliable conclusions about whether what someone has said is "normal" for them. You're throwing chaff up about how you all judge peoples play by pretending it's based on a logical assessment of their normal play compared to their current play.

Chaff doesn't help town. Play on any logic shown. Or maybe, at this stage, on any logic not shown. Don't play on a subjective judgement of normality.

There is no discernible logic on day 1 & suddenly you don't sound quite so new at this game. :wink:

[Raf]

suddenly you don't sound quite so new at this game. :wink:

laffs.

That's better :wink:

[Crumb]

JamesBannon [2] - Widget, Nightson
Nightson [5] - James, Dolores, Skydin, slimshady, mrickaby
Adam [2] - Ensign Steve, beyelzu
Widget [1] - The Tick
Skydin [1] - Raf
beyelzu [1] - Smilin

[Skydin]

wow... 4 pages people? I should just stop sleeping altogether...

On the charges of bad math, I misread the thread, is all. Wasnt paying a whole lot of attention and all that.

[Raf]

On the charges of bad math, I misread the thread, is all. Wasnt paying a whole lot of attention and all that.

What about the charge of justifying yourself for bandwagonning before anyone had accused you of it?? :whup:

My vote stands.

[Skydin]

I rationalized it so that noone would accuse me. Which is something I always do.

On another forum, WoodenMarble (www.woodenmarble.com) , I was lynched every time I played but one, and I was never town. That also just happened to be the first 3 games I ever played. So, I kinda got in the habit of explaining my reasons before they could accuse me of things just because, when I'm doing it I know the reason, but I dont always remember the reasoning afterward, and saying I dont know seems scummy when your being accused of being scum.

Its a bad habit, yes, but for now its how I work.

[JamesBannon]

On the charges of bad math, I misread the thread, is all. Wasnt paying a whole lot of attention and all that.

What about the charge of justifying yourself for bandwagonning before anyone had accused you of it?? :whup:

My vote stands.
I'll figure who you are yet :P

[Raf]

On another forum, WoodenMarble (www.woodenmarble.com) , I was lynched every time I played but one, and I was never town. That also just happened to be the first 3 games I ever played. So, I kinda got in the habit of explaining my reasons before they could accuse me of things just because, when I'm doing it I know the reason, but I dont always remember the reasoning afterward, and saying I dont know seems scummy when your being accused of being scum.

So you've learnt to hide your scumminess by explaining it up front?

My vote stands.

[Raf]

I'll figure who you are yet :P

:popcorn:

Bet you don't before the end of the game :)

[Skydin]

Gah! Sorry, have mercy on me, I havent slept more than 7 hours in 2 days.

I meant I was never once scum, and that I was always town. The two got muddled.

Look on the site, if you want proof. Mafia is a subsection in posting games.

[JamesBannon]

I'll figure who you are yet :P

:popcorn:

Bet you don't before the end of the game :)

I like a challenge! :D My first guess is that ... never mind. That would be a derail.

[Dolores Manapat]

I rationalized it so that noone would accuse me. Which is something I always do.

On another forum, WoodenMarble (www.woodenmarble.com) , I was lynched every time I played but one, and I was never town. That also just happened to be the first 3 games I ever played. So, I kinda got in the habit of explaining my reasons before they could accuse me of things just because, when I'm doing it I know the reason, but I dont always remember the reasoning afterward, and saying I dont know seems scummy when your being accused of being scum.

Its a bad habit, yes, but for now its how I work.

:lol: that seems reasonable.

I still think nightson is scum. I don't really know why.

[mrickaby]

suddenly you don't sound quite so new at this game. :wink:

laffs.

That's better :wink:

Wow.

Suddenly the scumdar goes "woo woo woo"

unvote vote Raf

But still FOSing Nightson.

[The Tick]

he was glib early, he has yet to produce a post that seemed thoughtful and weighing out options, his claim that he was worried about the mob piling on shows shoddy reasoning. something which is definitely not a hallmark of adam.
ok.

however, we could still lynch nightson, my suspicion only makes sense really if nightson is guilty.
beyelzu: Umm, what? Isn't that usually the case?


Chaff doesn't help town. Play on any logic shown. Or maybe, at this stage, on any logic not shown. Don't play on a subjective judgement of normality.
Raf: That's interesting talk from a new guy who doesn't know the game...


Nightson:
*cough* that's because playstyle arguments are bullshit *cough*
I agree to some extent with this. I think the current game is what counts most, but nevertheless: it might be suspicious is somebody who always is always is active suddenly turns into passive player, or when somebody who waits a long before accuses suddenly becomes a vote machine. I think "bullshit" is a bit strong, but I do agree that making conclusions based mainly on "people playing differently" might not have much base.


ETA: Nightson always seems scummy to me, so take what I said with a grain of salt.
mrickaby: I find this statement very scummy. A scum could make "random vote" and then claim that he just always suspects X. You also add that "take what I said with a grain of salt" (by the way, could anybody who has played with mrickaby in other games confirm that this has been true?)

Then you continue:
unvote vote Raf

But still FOSing Nightson.
Now... you are voting Raf (I though that the 'laffs' part was a joke) AND you are also FOSsing (finger of suspicion) Nightson just because you always think he is suspicious AND that, based on your earlier comment, we should take your FOS as a grain of salt too?

Umm, that sounds scummy.

[Raf]

Can anyone explain to me what Nightson has done to deserve this "FOS"ing?

[slimshady2357]

Can anyone explain to me what Nightson has done to deserve this "FOS"ing?

Well, for me, the attempted suppression of scenario talk followed by the ever so weak (and scummy) 'just think about it, you'll get it' explanation.

He's offered up something a little more substantial now, which I'm just about to get to....

[slimshady2357]

Did you get the number of scum in your role pm? No, neither did any other townsperson. How much information does it bring the town? None. This is the important part. Setup speculation gives no information to the town, neither in knowledge of the setup or in scumtells. So that sticks it right in the neutral category.

I disagree. As was already pointed out, some people are fairly new to this game, they can benefit from having an idea of how many scum there are likely to be. For instance, I would have thought 4 with 14 people, but the more experienced players seem to think that would be too many. It doesn't mean there isn't 4, just that I will no longer be thinking with an assumption that there is 4 scum. I will now be more open to thinking about scenarios where there are only 3 scum. I assume this hold for other people as well. There is a benefit to the town.

So the second question we must ask is does it help scum? And the answer is, yes. At least a little bit. When someone who is town speculates on the setup they do so knowing their own role and it's power. Like all information it is not exact or guaranteed but it is information that is given to the scum without any benefit to the town.

This is why I agreed that some scenario discussion could hurt the town. However, a discussion of how many scum there might be isn't one of them.

That is why setup speculation is harmful to the town.

No, that is why some kinds of setup speculation is harmful to the town. The kind we were having wasn't one of them.

I can see that perhaps you were trying to just stop the setup speculation before it became of the harmful type...maybe.

[Dolores Manapat]

so....we're not lynching nightson then?:sadcheer:

[JamesBannon]

I find Rof's defence of Nightson slightly odd. Diversionary tactic?

[Raf]

Me? Where did I defend him?

[The Tick]

so....we're not lynching nightson then?:sadcheer:
Hmm... well, how about you tell us? Should we lynch him?

[JamesBannon]

Can anyone explain to me what Nightson has done to deserve this "FOS"ing?
This. That plus the fact you pretended to be a noobie @ the game when you're not. Right now that makes me suspicious of both yourself and Nightson.

Oh, and the reason I voted for Nightson? Well, he jumped on me right from the gun without the slightest shred of evidence.

[Raf]

Can anyone explain to me what Nightson has done to deserve this "FOS"ing?
This.


I'm less suspicious now of Skydin, because the mistake with the numbers strikes me as a townie kind of mistake (scum would pay more attention). So I'm looking for a new target to vote. This was me asking for the reasons people are voting Nightson, in case I've missed why people think he's a good target, not me defending him.


That plus the fact you pretended to be a noobie @ the game when you're not.

Yeah, I've played once or twice before, but some of the jargon is new to me and peoples styles here certainly are (cos I AM a noob here).

Right now that makes me suspicious of both yourself and Nightson.

Oh, and the reason I voted for Nightson? Well, he jumped on me right from the gun without the slightest shred of evidence.

Ok, but didn't you say

There is no discernible logic on day 1.

So if there isn't, why would you expect him to have some evidence for jumping on you?

[Dolores Manapat]

so....we're not lynching nightson then?:sadcheer:
Hmm... well, how about you tell us? Should we lynch him?

:yup:

[JamesBannon]

So if there isn't, why would you expect him to have some evidence for jumping on you?

I didn't. Other than that he attempted to start a bandwagon on me, I don't have any good evidence either.

Is that you Halii?

[Raf]

I didn't. Other than that he attempted to start a bandwagon on me, I don't have any good evidence either.


Ok. I'm not going to keep the bandwagon on him growing unless someone can give me a reason to.


Is that you Halii?

:lmao:

[Dolores Manapat]

:washdel: haha that is so cute.

[Adam]

That plus the fact you pretended to be a noobie @ the game when you're not.

I'm sort of interested in this as well. Why pretend to be new if you're not?

[mickthinks]

Interesting game. I was going to comment but it occurs to me that non-player's comments might be unwelcome and seen as spoiling the game, so I'll ask first. Is it okay for non-players to offer analysis here? - Mick

ETA: Thanks James - Is there a peanut gallery?

[JamesBannon]

There should be a peanut gallery Mick (if Crumb has created one).

[Raf]

That plus the fact you pretended to be a noobie @ the game when you're not.

I'm sort of interested in this as well. Why pretend to be new if you're not?


Yeah, I've played once or twice before, but some of the jargon is new to me and peoples styles here certainly are (cos I AM a noob here).


This.

[slimshady2357]

Peanut Gallery thread is :rarrow: On The Waterfront - interest/sign-up - Freethought Forum (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16505)

[The Tick]

Interesting game. I was going to comment but it occurs to me that non-player's comments might be unwelcome and seen as spoiling the game, so I'll ask first. Is it okay for non-players to offer analysis here? - Mick

ETA: Thanks James - Is there a peanut gallery?

Peanut Gallery thread is :rarrow: On The Waterfront - interest/sign-up - Freethought Forum (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16505)

I believe you still cannot make game analysis in the peanut gallery.... at least not before the game is finished...

[The Tick]

so....we're not lynching nightson then?:sadcheer:
Hmm... well, how about you tell us? Should we lynch him?

:yup:

:washdel: haha that is so cute.

Hmm... you are kind of avoiding to answer to my question. Or did that first "yup" icon indicate answering "yes"?

[Dolores Manapat]

yes.

btw, are we allowed to vote "no lynch"?

[Dolores Manapat]

or does that automatically happen if noone receives the required votes at the end of the day?

[JamesBannon]

I doubt it Dolores, we need to lynch someone for the day to end.

[Dolores Manapat]

Not Dolores...my name is Truck, and I load(and unload) ships.:D

[JamesBannon]

OK, Truck :D

[Dolores Manapat]

Raf, who do you think we should lynch?

[Raf]

I have no idea. Skydins pre-emptive explanation still looks odd, but I'm not sure. I can't see any reason to pile on Nightson, and I don't know enough to pick any other targets.

[Dolores Manapat]

Right now, I think nightson, Adam and you(Raf) are scum. Nightson only had 4 votes, that's miles away from the required 8 votes. There was really not that much reason to defend him right then(jb had 3, ES and skydin had 1) unless you didn't want the focus on one of yours this early in the game.

I say we lynch nightson today. If he's scum then we've figured them all out. If he's not then we lynch skydin.:fftongue:

[beyelzu]

unvote

Vote Beyelzu

He's been all over the map slinging suspicions...first voting for me for being hungover and feeling like shit after just checking in and stating that I was reserving my vote for later.

Now he's spouting off about first about Adam and now Nightson and pursuing them relentlessly.

Same pattern of behavior I exhibited the last game when I was actually scum.
So, you're at the top of my list and I believe you to be scum trying to stir the pot.....

You, bey, are the one acting unusual in the game. I've seen no other unusual behavior from anyone else thus far.
nope, i go after people pretty hard all the time its how i play.

fos smilin.

shit man this is natural cock right here

[Ensign Steve]

I don't think Nightson is scum. He is being incredibly town-friendly, which I have fallen for in the recent past, but he just always reads so damn sincere to me!

[Smilin]

Fair enough bey......

You are one true dick whether or not you're playing, I give you that...

Unvote Beyelzu

So, crumb, what is the official standings now?

[beyelzu]

*cough* that's because playstyle arguments are bullshit *cough*

and yet i nab people pretty steadily that way.

in lost it led me to matt frinstance.

the problem is that you are so fucking inconsistent by choice to make the playstyle argument bullshit as it applies to you.

[beyelzu]

I don't think Nightson is scum. He is being incredibly town-friendly, which I have fallen for in the recent past, but he just always reads so damn sincere to me!

and that is classic adamesque play.


:tmgrin:

which is probably why i try to lynch nightson all the time.


tick, my suspicion of adam only really makes since if nightson is scum was what i meant to say. sorry if i wasnt clear.

[Smilin]

Can anyone explain to me what Nightson has done to deserve this "FOS"ing?
This. That plus the fact you pretended to be a noobie @ the game when you're not. Right now that makes me suspicious of both yourself and Nightson.

Oh, and the reason I voted for Nightson? Well, he jumped on me right from the gun without the slightest shred of evidence.

My vote goes on Raf. Pretending to be a noob when actually you aren't.

While you may be new to the players in this game, we're all in that boat.

Vote Raf

Now work calls, but I will be checking in periodically....

[Smilin]

*cough* that's because playstyle arguments are bullshit *cough*

and yet i nab people pretty steadily that way.



You got lucky nabbing me in the last game cocksucker. That and that fucker Crumbles throwing me under the bus.....

Bastages! :wink::D

[Smilin]

And Nightson's argument that speculating on roles is bad for the town I find to be total Bullshit...so, he's number 2 on my suspect list for now.

[beyelzu]

raf,

have you played before and how much?

on the one hand you are going with the woe is me im a poor clueless noob style, on the other hand quite a few of your posts dont seem so newbish

???????

[beyelzu]

And Nightson's argument that speculating on roles is bad for the town I find to be total Bullshit...so, he's number 2 on my suspect list for now.

in retrospect its a fair argument i think. you dont want to get into too much speculation early.

on the other hand, his whole argument distracts from the fact that adam either thinks there are like a billion stupid scum or he got off the nightson bandwagon for some other reason.


your distrust of raf strikes me as reasonable.

[beyelzu]

so....we're not lynching nightson then?:sadcheer:
Hmm... well, how about you tell us? Should we lynch him?

:yup:

why do you feel we should lynch nightson???

[Dolores Manapat]

because Adam and Raf scrambled to turn our attention away from him before he was even in any real danger of getting lynched.

because he sold me out to the zombies in that last zombie mafia.

because he's been scum in all the games I've played with him.

I don't really have solid reasons. But this is day one.

[Crumb]

JamesBannon [2] - Widget, Nightson
Nightson [4] - James, Dolores, Skydin, slimshady
Adam [2] - Ensign Steve, beyelzu
Widget [1] - The Tick
Skydin [1] - Raf
Raf [2] - mrickaby, Smilin

[Crumb]

8 votes required for lynch. Day ends when there is a lynch. No lynch is not allowed.

[beyelzu]

because Adam and Raf scrambled to turn our attention away from him before he was even in any real danger of getting lynched.

because he sold me out to the zombies in that last zombie mafia.

because he's been scum in all the games I've played with him.

I don't really have solid reasons. But this is day one.

nightson is hard to read which is why i have an inherent suspicion of him, so i sympathize however, but the reverse gambler fallacy and then an appeal to oh well its just day one????

[Adam]

I don't think Nightson is scum. He is being incredibly town-friendly, which I have fallen for in the recent past, but he just always reads so damn sincere to me!

Although bey already said this, it's probably worth pointing out that apparently sincere town-friendliness, with plenty of meta-game analysis mixed in, is the behavior ya'll started calling adamesque way back when.

My current top suspect is raf, pending his answer to bey's question, followed by Skydin, because his preemptive explanation of why he really wasn't bandwagonning still sets me off.

ETA: Followed by all the scummy scum who've posted very little.

[beyelzu]

if only you had some way to designate officially who your top suspect is, yknow like a vote????


also, capp, get in here and vote man.


pretty please

[Dolores Manapat]

because Adam and Raf scrambled to turn our attention away from him before he was even in any real danger of getting lynched.

because he sold me out to the zombies in that last zombie mafia.

because he's been scum in all the games I've played with him.

I don't really have solid reasons. But this is day one.

nightson is hard to read which is why i have an inherent suspicion of him, so i sympathize however, but the reverse gambler fallacy and then an appeal to oh well its just day one????

what?:wha: I don't get it.

[beyelzu]

the gambler fallacy

that coin has done come up heads eight times in a fuckin row, im bettin everything i own on tails this motherfuckin time.


the reverse gamblers fallacy

that coin done come up heads 8 times in a row, hells yes it wouldnt come up tails no matter what. ma, get the deed to my house, im about to make a fortune.

[beyelzu]

oh and, the its only day one so we have nothing to go one argument that you seem to be making is weak. i want people voting for reasons as flimsy as they are and explaining their reasons as much as possible.

[slimshady2357]

what?:wha: I don't get it.

Oops, didn't mean to thank that post.

Anyway, the gambler's fallacy is 'hmmm it's been red 10 times in a row, it MUST be black this time!!'. So the reverse gambler's fallacy would be 'hmmm Nightson has been scum every time, he MUST be scum again!!'. Or something like that.

There are 14 people but only 12 votes, what's wrong with the other two people? Get your asses voting.

[Adam]

All right,

Vote: Raf

[Smilin]

Adam and Capp haven't voted yet......

Now why would that be?

Adam has been participating, yet to cast a single vote, Capp is MIA and participating very little.

Perhaps they're laying low, flying under the radar, when the odds are that we'll lynch a townie?

The only time I played mob, I sat back and done the exact same thing. We really need to watch Adam and Capp. NON-participation and NON-voting is what hurts the town....NOT speculation on numbers of mob/specials townies in my opinion.

A typical mob ploy is to simply sit back and participate as little as possible on day one.

[Smilin]

Correction:

Adam's cast his vote while I was typing my last post.

Now, all that remains is Capp to vote.

[Adam]

Adam has been participating, yet to cast a single vote

I cast the second vote in the game. Then I unvoted later on, and we spent half of yesterday discussing whether or not that means I'm the scummiest scum who ever scummed.

[Smilin]

7 pages of posts just on day one....

My apologies Adam....

Is this some kind of record for the first day or not?

[Ensign Steve]

Not.

[Nightson]

Did you get the number of scum in your role pm? No, neither did any other townsperson. How much information does it bring the town? None. This is the important part. Setup speculation gives no information to the town, neither in knowledge of the setup or in scumtells. So that sticks it right in the neutral category.

I disagree. As was already pointed out, some people are fairly new to this game, they can benefit from having an idea of how many scum there are likely to be. For instance, I would have thought 4 with 14 people, but the more experienced players seem to think that would be too many. It doesn't mean there isn't 4, just that I will no longer be thinking with an assumption that there is 4 scum. I will now be more open to thinking about scenarios where there are only 3 scum. I assume this hold for other people as well. There is a benefit to the town.

So the second question we must ask is does it help scum? And the answer is, yes. At least a little bit. When someone who is town speculates on the setup they do so knowing their own role and it's power. Like all information it is not exact or guaranteed but it is information that is given to the scum without any benefit to the town.

This is why I agreed that some scenario discussion could hurt the town. However, a discussion of how many scum there might be isn't one of them.

That is why setup speculation is harmful to the town.

No, that is why some kinds of setup speculation is harmful to the town. The kind we were having wasn't one of them.

I can see that perhaps you were trying to just stop the setup speculation before it became of the harmful type...maybe.

If all anybody had said was, "given numbers there's probably three to four scum" then there wouldn't have been any problem.

Of course that's not what happened which sort of makes you wrong.

we would have 4 scum. Or maybe 3 scum and a traitor?

14 is 3 scum and probably no traitor

otherwise its slanted towards the mob

4 scum would be a bit much for 14 players. I suggest 3 with perhaps a traitor or serial killer.

Also notice it says "and possibly others". 3 scums seems quite right, and then perhaps traitor/no-traitor depending on all roles...?

3 and a traitor would be overpowered but lets not get bogged down in this


What do I do if I'm scum reading this? I shift you up a bit in the power role category along with jamesbannon, I shift beyelzu down into the townie category. The Tick I leave where he is.

Harmful. To. The. Town.


We can head over to mafiascum and ask there whether speculation on the number of scum is harmful to the town or not but I already know what the response will be.

[Raf]

raf,

have you played before and how much?

on the one hand you are going with the woe is me im a poor clueless noob style, on the other hand quite a few of your posts dont seem so newbish

???????

I have played 3 games before elsewhere. I still think I'm new to the game, and the term "FOS" hadn't come up that I recall. I'm also new here, and don't recognise peoples styles of play, so when all the argument to that point had been "You're not being normal", what am I suppose to do? Either join a bandwagon or point out that "normality" arguments are not helpful to someone relatively new to the game and totally new to the board.

[Nightson]

7 pages of posts just on day one....

Is this some kind of record for the first day or not?


Highest on this site was about 12 pages iirc.

Highest I've ever seen was about 60 pages.

[Raf]

My vote goes on Raf. Pretending to be a noob when actually you aren't.

While you may be new to the players in this game, we're all in that boat.

Vote Raf

Now work calls, but I will be checking in periodically....

I didn't know that, and seeing as all the arguments had been "You're being odd" it seemed like you've all played each other lots.

[Raf]

Right now, I think nightson, Adam and you(Raf) are scum. Nightson only had 4 votes, that's miles away from the required 8 votes. There was really not that much reason to defend him right then(jb had 3, ES and skydin had 1) unless you didn't want the focus on one of yours this early in the game.

I say we lynch nightson today. If he's scum then we've figured them all out. If he's not then we lynch skydin.:fftongue:

I haven't defended Nightson. As I said, the post of mine about him that James highlighted was asking for a reason to vote for him, because I don't want to join a bandwagon for no reason.

[Nightson]

Can anyone explain to me what Nightson has done to deserve this "FOS"ing?
This. That plus the fact you pretended to be a noobie @ the game when you're not. Right now that makes me suspicious of both yourself and Nightson.

Oh, and the reason I voted for Nightson? Well, he jumped on me right from the gun without the slightest shred of evidence.

Hmm, deliberately miscontruing a random vote.

Scummy scummy scummy.

Vote just became nonrandom.

[slimshady2357]

[What do I do if I'm scum reading this? I shift you up a bit in the power role category along with jamesbannon, I shift beyelzu down into the townie category. The Tick I leave where he is.

If that is what you're basing your argument on, it's even more BS than I thought :lol:

Harmful. To. The. Town.

We can head over to mafiascum and ask there whether speculation on the number of scum is harmful to the town or not but I already know what the response will be.

Um, ya, if you do, make sure you quote the posts again. Those two speculations about a possible traitor are really wayyyy outside the realm of how many scum do we have. :lol:

[Smilin]

I'm new to the game and the forum, so I didn't want to say it, but...

*cough* that's because playstyle arguments are bullshit *cough*

You may be new to the forum...but you are CERTAINLY not new to the game...

Sorry dude...ain't buyin' it....

[beyelzu]

actually, i agree with nightson but i dont wish to add more speculation or ideas.

just a basic number of mafia is probably all that should be stated.

i think there are very good reasons for not discussing how many mafia there are.

[Ensign Steve]

Good catch, Smilin. I don't know that he's scum, but he's obviously full of shit. "Lynch all Liars."

unvote

vote: Raf

[beyelzu]

interestingly, es, you were about to go on my suspect list.

lynch all liars is a tried and true method no doubt.

unvote, vote raf

but im going with a disparate play style reason as well. the change in tone of his posts strikes me as odd.

[beyelzu]

and i just realized that this is the second time i have followed your vote.

fwiw, nightson and adam, i'm going to table teh nightson and adam are working together motif for now.

[beyelzu]

Can anyone explain to me what Nightson has done to deserve this "FOS"ing?
This. That plus the fact you pretended to be a noobie @ the game when you're not. Right now that makes me suspicious of both yourself and Nightson.

Oh, and the reason I voted for Nightson? Well, he jumped on me right from the gun without the slightest shred of evidence.

Hmm, deliberately miscontruing a random vote.

Scummy scummy scummy.

Vote just became nonrandom.

did he ever say that he was actually making a random vote for real?

i do see some post hoc rationalization though. he bitches about proof here something he didnt do in his initial vote.

[Ensign Steve]

You cannot resist my charms. :hypno2:

[beyelzu]

yeah sorry to admit it, town, but es adn i have been cheating she promised me some quality pics if and only if i would vote however she does for the game.

:tmgrin:

[Ensign Steve]

:strip:

[Nightson]

Can anyone explain to me what Nightson has done to deserve this "FOS"ing?
This. That plus the fact you pretended to be a noobie @ the game when you're not. Right now that makes me suspicious of both yourself and Nightson.

Oh, and the reason I voted for Nightson? Well, he jumped on me right from the gun without the slightest shred of evidence.

Hmm, deliberately miscontruing a random vote.

Scummy scummy scummy.

Vote just became nonrandom.

did he ever say that he was actually making a random vote for real?

i do see some post hoc rationalization though. he bitches about proof here something he didnt do in his initial vote.

Not his random vote, my vote at the very beginning of the game, he spun that as "jumped on me right from the gun without the slightest shred of evidence" when it was a random vote in the second post of the game. Scummy imo.

[cappuccino]

I'm here! Sorry, I got slammed at work today but I'm now on my lunch break.

I've finished reading through the new pages and I'm not comfortable with realization that Raf is more than what he says he is. At the beginning he deliberately cultivated an aura of total newbie only to grudgingly reveal that he's had experience when he was caught making a suspicious statement by James.

There's a lot of noise about scum setups suspicious I'm trying to screen and wade through. In my past experience, I was lynched for being too vocal, then next game, lynched for being too quiet, then next game, lynched because I crossed my eyes funny.

bey is being his usual self, aggressive and he's good at ferreting out the scums first day, I know, he caught me since when I made my first post when I was the scum in one of the old games.

I'm more apt to listen to what bey's saying, right now I think Raf is being more sneaky than the circumstances warrant.

Vote Raf

[Crumb]

JamesBannon [2] - Widget, Nightson
Nightson[4] - James, Dolores, Skydin, slimshady
Widget [1] - The Tick
Skydin [1] - Raf
Raf [6] - mrickaby, Smilin, Adam, Ensign Steve, beyelzu, Cappuccino

[JamesBannon]

:strip:

:faint:

FWIW I don't think Raf is scum, yet. I also still think "he" is a "she". I'm still working on guessing who you are though.

[Raf]

Anything I can say to defend myself at this point?

[Ensign Steve]

You tell us.

[beyelzu]

Can anyone explain to me what Nightson has done to deserve this "FOS"ing?
This. That plus the fact you pretended to be a noobie @ the game when you're not. Right now that makes me suspicious of both yourself and Nightson.

Oh, and the reason I voted for Nightson? Well, he jumped on me right from the gun without the slightest shred of evidence.

Hmm, deliberately miscontruing a random vote.

Scummy scummy scummy.

Vote just became nonrandom.

did he ever say that he was actually making a random vote for real?

i do see some post hoc rationalization though. he bitches about proof here something he didnt do in his initial vote.

Not his random vote, my vote at the very beginning of the game, he spun that as "jumped on me right from the gun without the slightest shred of evidence" when it was a random vote in the second post of the game. Scummy imo.

thanks for the clarification.

and if you wouldnt mind making another one, you said that you were sure that the 4 people voting for you were scum,

i assumed that you were joking but i would like a clarification

[beyelzu]

no doubt, raf now is the time to role claim at 6 votes


and now is also the obligatory no one pull the trigger just yet reminder

[Raf]

You tell us.

Nothing that I know of. I don't have any role to claim, and I don't know of anything else that would work.

[Adam]

Anything I can say to defend myself at this point?

A valid explanation of why you're being so sneaky? Sneaky just about never helps the town.

[Raf]

no doubt, raf now is the time to role claim at 6 votes


and now is also the obligatory no one pull the trigger just yet reminder

Ordinary town. I don't think that'll save me.

[beyelzu]

just about tis true

[Raf]

Anything I can say to defend myself at this point?

A valid explanation of why you're being so sneaky? Sneaky just about never helps the town.

I've explained everything, I think. I wasn't being sneaky, just inexperienced.

[JamesBannon]

Where's widget?

[Raf]

Will I get lynched if I ask what a widget is too?

[Ensign Steve]

Canada, I think.

[beyelzu]

well raf, how do you explain the apparent discrepancy?

also where else have you played and whats your handle there.

could save your life, cuz we can look and see how you played there

[beyelzu]

widget is a player in the game, i would think a townie on the lookout for scum would know that

now scum are generally lazy and may not pay much attention to who is actually in the game and just respond to the thread.

:tmgrin:

so yes raf you might get lynched for asking that question

[Raf]

*rolls eyes* you might as well lynch me then.

[Adam]

now scum are generally lazy and may not pay much attention to who is actually in the game and just respond to the thread.

I sort of twinged at the same thing from Smilin earlier. I have a hard time believing that someone on the lookout for scum would have missed the fact that we spent all of yesterday afternoon arguing over whether or not my initial vote meant I was guilty. On the other hand, when I've played with Smilin before, his actions have been (to my eyes) erratic and hard to understand, and he wasn't scum then, so that may not mean much.

ETA: "erratic and hard to understand" is sort of vague...I mean that he seems to not do the same detailed analysis of every word posted in the thread that most of us tend to do.

[slimshady2357]

Goodness me, if that's the best he's got as a repsonse, we might as well lynch him.

[Raf]

Someone get it over with, I've got nothing else to offer in defence.

[Adam]

Someone get it over with, I've got nothing else to offer in defence.

How about:

also where else have you played and whats your handle there.

could save your life, cuz we can look and see how you played there

We'd really rather not lynch a townie...if you think the info bey's asking for will help, please provide it.

[Smilin]

yeah sorry to admit it, town, but es adn i have been cheating she promised me some quality pics if and only if i would vote however she does for the game.

:tmgrin:

After seeing the last pic she posted of her and Julie, (what a nice set of tah-tah's ES is all I can say), I'm sorry I went along with that back-stabbing bastard Crumb and agreed to off her on the first night of the last game we just finished up here. Especially after that bastage threw me under the bus...

Sorry ES. I am a mutt-dawg and a sucker for a beautiful lady....

and bey...you dick..you'd BETTER share any pics, you cocksucker! LOL:wink:

[Smilin]

Where's widget?

Widget runs his own company and will probably only be online in the afternoon times....unless he's playing golf or going at it with Legs...lol

[JamesBannon]

Now you're making me jealous, smilin. :)

ETA: Oh yeah, I agree: ES is a good-looking lady!

[Smilin]

Now you're making me jealous, smilin. :)

ETA: Oh yeah, I agree: ES is a good-looking lady!

Dude, HOW could I be making you jealous? I just turned 42, drink too much beer, thus the beer gut, severely out of shape explainining my whole body screaming in pain at me from going on an overnight hiking/camping trip this weekend and my hair is thinning....

Oh yeah, my wife and I currently don't live together either...so....HOW can I POSSIBLY make you jealous?

Jealous OF WHAT? LMAO!!!!!

Unless of course you're into that sort of thing? LMAO...:D

[Ensign Steve]

I think you're making James jealous of Widget, not of you. :P

[Smilin]

:roflmao:

[JamesBannon]

I think you're making James jealous of Widget, not of you. :P
:yeahthat:

[Crumb]

Ok back to the game... :blank:

[Crumb]

JamesBannon [2] - Widget, Nightson
Nightson[4] - James, Dolores, Skydin, slimshady
Widget [1] - The Tick
Skydin [1] - Raf
Raf [6] - mrickaby, Smilin, Adam, Ensign Steve, beyelzu, Cappuccino

[JamesBannon]

I still want to hear more from Raf, The Tick & Widget before lynching Raf.

[Raf]

I've told you, I have no more defence to offer.

[mrickaby]

I just wanted to answer this:

ETA: Nightson always seems scummy to me, so take what I said with a grain of salt.
mrickaby: I find this statement very scummy. A scum could make "random vote" and then claim that he just always suspects X. You also add that "take what I said with a grain of salt" (by the way, could anybody who has played with mrickaby in other games confirm that this has been true?)

Did you miss the post above it giving my reason for the vote? I tend to think that trying to limit the information available in public is harmful to the town, and look negatively towards attempts to keep people in the dark. The scum already know how many of them there are, and who they are. The ETA second post was just to say that I was not 100% on my suspicion, but I still do not make votes unless I am very suspicious.

Then you continue:
unvote vote Raf

But still FOSing Nightson.
Now... you are voting Raf (I though that the 'laffs' part was a joke) AND you are also FOSsing (finger of suspicion) Nightson just because you always think he is suspicious AND that, based on your earlier comment, we should take your FOS as a grain of salt too?

Umm, that sounds scummy.

It had become apparent that Raf was withholding information/lying in earlier posts. This vote was for the same reason as my Nightson vote.

[Smilin]

Top two suspects by votes are Raf and Nightson and all who have voted have made there case on why.....

NOW...

I'm interested in Raf, The Tick, and Widgets reasoning for why they've voted the way they have.

[Raf]

Can I just point out that scum know I'm town. I can understand them not wanting to put the last vote on my, but vote number 7 should be an easy one, yet I'm stuck at 6.

Could they all be on me already?

[Raf]

Top two suspects by votes are Raf and Nightson and all who have voted have made there case on why.....

NOW...

I'm interested in Raf, The Tick, and Widgets reasoning for why they've voted the way they have.

I voted for Skydin because s/he felt the need to explain why what looked exactly like bandwagonning wasn't, and that looked odd.

[JamesBannon]

Can I just point out that scum know I'm town. I can understand them not wanting to put the last vote on my, but vote number 7 should be an easy one, yet I'm stuck at 6.

Could they all be on me already?
Not necessarily. It could be that they're holding off to avoid FOSing themselves as being the last on the band wagon.

[Nightson]

@bey

It was a joke

[Raf]

Not necessarily. It could be that they're holding off to avoid FOSing themselves as being the last on the band wagon.

That's my point. I'm stuck on 6.

Look, I'm the obvious lynch. I'll get lynched now, I know. I'm ordinary town, and when you see that you'll have to get what info you can from who voted when.

I'm just pointing out that this big pause at 6 is suspicious. You'd target the last on the bandwagon, as you said, so why can't they force another townie into that position by leaving me at 7?

[Smilin]

And Legs has confirmed that Widget is playing golf.........

Some people, eh?

[JamesBannon]

Yeah, but I don't want to lynch a townie. Numbers matter in this game. However, if you insist unvote; vote Raf. That makes 7.

[Smilin]

Can I just point out that scum know I'm town. I can understand them not wanting to put the last vote on my, but vote number 7 should be an easy one, yet I'm stuck at 6.

Could they all be on me already?

Or the scum know you'll probably be lynched, or Nightson, and don't want to draw attention to themselves by trying to defend you, if you indeed turn out to be scum.

[Legs]

:laugh:

Widget is actually English, but lives in Canada. He's golfing right now but will be back later tonight... when it gets too dark to see his balls.

[Raf]

Or the scum know you'll probably be lynched, or Nightson, and don't want to draw attention to themselves by trying to defend you, if you indeed turn out to be scum.

Look, I'm about to turn out town. I'm just trying to help by pointing out the oddities I can see in this vote pattern.

[Crumb]

Please only players in the game thread. :thankee:

[Ensign Steve]

Widget is actually English...

I did not know that.
:carson:

[Nightson]

Yeah, but I don't want to lynch a townie. Numbers matter in this game. However, if you insist unvote; vote Raf. That makes 7.



!


Are you serious?

[slimshady2357]

:laugh:
... when it gets too dark to see his balls.

I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole!

[Smilin]

Oddities?

What other oddities in the voting pattern have you noticed other than noone has cast the death blow against you yet? There are reasons for that, but I'm not going to elaborate on game strategy while the game is being played.

and if you are a special...now is the time to reveal...

[Raf]

I'm not, I've said, I'm normal town.

[Smilin]

Yeah, but I don't want to lynch a townie. Numbers matter in this game. However, if you insist unvote; vote Raf. That makes 7.



!


Are you serious?


JB states he doesn't want to lynch a townie...

Takes his vote off of you, Nightson, and then you become alarmed and question his motives?

Why?

[slimshady2357]

Yeah, but I don't want to lynch a townie. Numbers matter in this game. However, if you insist unvote; vote Raf. That makes 7.



!


Are you serious?


JB states he doesn't want to lynch a townie...

Takes his vote off of you, Nightson, and then you become alarmed and question his motives?

Why?

Well his 'however, if you insist' would seem to imply he believes Raf is a townie. And voting for someone you think is a townie is shear lunacy. Unless, of course, you're scum.

[Smilin]

JB, in your opinion based upon what has been said so far, do you believe Raf to be town or scum?

I still believe him to be scum for reasons I've already covered. I'm interested in your observations?

[Smilin]

Yeah, but I don't want to lynch a townie. Numbers matter in this game. However, if you insist unvote; vote Raf. That makes 7.



!


Are you serious?


JB states he doesn't want to lynch a townie...

Takes his vote off of you, Nightson, and then you become alarmed and question his motives?

Why?

Well his 'however, if you insist' would seem to imply he believes Raf is a townie. And voting for someone you think is a townie is shear lunacy. Unless, of course, you're scum.

I'm also still confused on WHY Nightson became alarmed over this? I just can't wrap my brain around that one....

Nightson...why did you become alarmed when JB took his vote off of you?

[Raf]

I'm not scum, I'm ordinary town. I'm about to die, and I know that, and that's fine, but first look at those who've outright accused me of lying. I haven't lied. I said I'm new to the game (which I am), that I'm totally new to the board (which I am), that a lot of mafia jargon goes over my head (which it does) and that voting for people based on abnormal behavious isn't helpful for those of us who don't know what peoples normal behaviour is (which it isn't).

[Smilin]

raf,

have you played before and how much?

on the one hand you are going with the woe is me im a poor clueless noob style, on the other hand quite a few of your posts dont seem so newbish

???????

Raf,,,,

You never answered this question posed by bey?
If you did, I've missed it....

so...care to answer it now or point out where you have?

[Smilin]

Be back on later tonight...time for me to pick up my youngest....

later on all....

[Raf]

raf,

have you played before and how much?

on the one hand you are going with the woe is me im a poor clueless noob style, on the other hand quite a few of your posts dont seem so newbish

???????

Raf,,,,

You never answered this question posed by bey?
If you did, I've missed it....

so...care to answer it now or point out where you have?

This one (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=542161&postcount=156)?

[Nightson]

I'm also still confused on WHY Nightson became alarmed over this? I just can't wrap my brain around that one....

Nightson...why did you become alarmed when JB took his vote off of you?

You're unable to get why I become alarmed when someone says they think someone is town and votes for them?

[Ensign Steve]

This one (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=542161&postcount=156)?

You're selectively quoting. bey asked where you played and under what name to get an idea of your playing style. "elsewhere" is somewhat of an evasion.

[JamesBannon]

JB, in your opinion based upon what has been said so far, do you believe Raf to be town or scum?

I still believe him to be scum for reasons I've already covered. I'm interested in your observations?
I think that Raf is town. OK, he / she slipped up with the "li'l ol' me" n00bie routine & suddenly switching to being a player with at least some experience, which ordinarily would be enough for a day 1 lynch (people have been lynched for less). However, that said, later replies seem to indicate town. Why not claim special or a lover role? That's the usual gambit for scum under pressure. Given that, I think Raf is town.

Be that as it may, we're stuck and need a lynch. I can't find any convincing reasons to vote for any of the other players as yet, so lynching Raf would at least give us some info and get the game moving.

[Raf]

This one (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=542161&postcount=156)?

You're selectively quoting. bey asked where you played and under what name to get an idea of your playing style. "elsewhere" is somewhat of an evasion.

I'm not, Bey asked "Have you played before and if so how much?". That was the post where I answered that.

He also asked where I'd played and under what name, in a different post. If I didn't answer that one, then sorry. Some of you know me, and frankly I wanted a fresh start here, so I'd rather not answer that one. I know that's going to get me lynched, but I'd rather people got the info from the voting patterns around my lynch than potentially spoil my future here.

Sorry.

Like I say, I'm the obvious lynch target, and I wish someone would just finish the job already.

[Nightson]

Everyone should vote Jamesbannon now.

[Ensign Steve]

How come?

[JamesBannon]

Again Nightson, that is stupid. Why? I have given good reasons to think that Raf is town and an argument for my vote. You, on the other hand, have contributed zero in terms of reasoning.

[Nightson]

Again Nightson, that is stupid. Why? I have given good reasons to think that Raf is town and an argument for my vote. You, on the other hand, have contributed zero in terms of reasoning.

You didn't find an argument you gave up looking for one. You said, "Oh well, we're going to lynch town, full steam ahead!"

That's the definition of anti-town.

What do you propose we do to people who deliberately try and kill townies?

[JamesBannon]

Again Nightson, that is stupid. Why? I have given good reasons to think that Raf is town and an argument for my vote. You, on the other hand, have contributed zero in terms of reasoning.

You didn't find an argument you gave up looking for one. You said, "Oh well, we're going to lynch town, full steam ahead!"

That's the definition of anti-town.

What do you propose we do to people who deliberately try and kill townies?
The only reason I gave was to gain info, not that I am in favour in lynching innocents. I switch my vote from you and you're complaining? I smell a rat! unvote; vote Nightson Oh yeah, and if you're trying to force me to out, forget it!

[Nightson]

There should be six other votes on Jamesbannon. Chop chop people.

[Ensign Steve]

Oh, please. Like the two of you aren't totally putting on an act for the rest of us.

:popcorn:

[Raf]

Also odd is why James didn't vote for me earlier, when he thought I was scum, and only voted later, once he thought I was town but also thought I'd cleared the 7th voter. unvote, vote JamesBannon

[JamesBannon]

I have absolutely no idea why Nightson is hounding me, ES.

[JamesBannon]

Also odd is why James didn't vote for me earlier, when he thought I was scum, and only voted later, once he thought I was town but also thought I'd cleared the 7th voter. unvote, vote JamesBannon
I didn't think you were scum then either!

[Ensign Steve]

You're right. It could just be one of you is playing the other as well as the rest of us. And knowing what I know about past games (sorry, Raf)...

unvote

vote: Nightson

[Crumb]

JamesBannon [3] - Widget, Nightson, Raf
Nightson [5] - James, Dolores, Skydin, slimshady, Ensign Steve
Widget [1] - The Tick
Raf [5] - mrickaby, Smilin, Adam, beyelzu, Cappuccino

[Raf]

And knowing what I know about past games

Gah, if you're going do that at least make it detailed and specific enough that I know what you're talking about and others can shred it if you're misrepresenting things, please?

[Ensign Steve]

In the last game Nightson played me like a fiddle, and I am still bitter.

[JamesBannon]

We still won, though ES. Maybe that's what eating him.

[mrickaby]

unvote, vote Nightson

At this point, I don't think Raf is scum, but rather a poor player. My initial reaction to Nightson stands.