Battlestar Galactica Mafia - Game Thread

[Adam]

The Cylons were created by man...

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/files/1/7/Intro-CreatedByMan.jpg

They rebelled...

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/files/1/7/Intro-TheyRebelled.jpg

They evolved...

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/files/1/7/Intro-TheyEvolved_160977.jpg

And they have a plan.

Forty years since the Cylon War, and the people of the Twelve Colonies thought the peace would last. The Toasters had their own section of space, the humans theirs, and the Cylons never showed their shiny metal forms in Colonial space. That was last week. That was before twelve planets, countless orbital stations and starships, and every human being on them died in nuclear fire. In the chaos following the attack, it become horrifyingly clear that humanity had been betrayed. The Colonial defense network didn't even react. Someone had shut it down. All the mighty Battlestars, the first line of defense against Cylon incursions, were completely disabled, along with their retinues of Vipers and Raptors.

Only one military vessel made it into action. The Battlestar Galactica, a relic of the last war, off the network, and in the process of being decommissioned, with its Commander, William Adama, ready to retire. Although Adama initially sought to take his ship into battle, as the extent of the devastation became clear he, along with the newly appointed President Laura Roslin, instead gathered up those few civilian vessels that remained and began a desperate attempt to escape the pursuing Cylon fleet. 50,298 survivors, in a fugitive fleet composed of no more than a few dozen ships.

During an emergency resupply stop at Ragnar Anchorage, a Colonial armory, Adama and his troops encountered a man who called himself Leoben Conoy, and who eventually admitted to being as Cylon. Shocked by the apparent fact that Cylons could now mimic the human form, the crew returned to Galactica, only to discover another copy of Leoben, who openly mocked them after his capture, and refused to cooperate with interrogation, even after being brutally tortured. Finally, in what was quickly to become the traditional way of dealing with Cylon spies, President Rolsin snarled "Put this...thing...out the airlock."

The Cylon fleet is still in pursuit. The crew hasn't gotten any decent rest in days. Somehow, the Cylons are tracking you. Every time you jump, the frakking Toasters are right behind you. There have to be more spies on board, reporting on your location, and they could be anyone. This can't go on. One way or another, you're going to have to find the spies and put them out the airlock. Commander Adama has called you all, the crew and passengers of Galactica, to CIC to break the news. His voice is steady as he looks each of you, in turn, directly in the eye and reveals the news: "The Cylons look like us now."

Game Info:

Some of you are Cylon spies. Each day, someone gets airlocked. Each night, the Cylons attack, a Colonial dies, and the Fleet jumps. The cycle continues until either the spies are gone and the Cylons can't track the Fleet or there are no Colonial survivors.

Days will be approximately 48 real world hours long, 72 on weekends. Whenever I start a day, I'll post the time the day ends. At nightfall, whoever has the most votes gets airlocked. Please bold all votes. Days can end early if you use final votes. No communication outside the thread, or playing in the Peanut Gallery, unless your role specifically allows it. No quoting my PMs, on pain of godkill. I don't care if you want to go invisible. Non-players, and dead players, please no posting in the thread.

There are certainly one or more Cylon spies out there, and I wouldn't put it past the Toasters to use sleeper agents, who believe themselves to be human (no, I didn't put Boomer in the game as a sleeper). Rumor has it that Dr. Gaius Baltar is working on a Cylon detector. There are probably a number of special roles in this game, unless the mod is a really lazy bastard.

The PMs sent to vanilla townies have a name, flavor text, and:

You are Human, and aligned with the Colonials.

I plan to give it until tomorrow evening to see if anyone else wants to play, then I'll send out role PMs. Please don't post in the thread until I say go.

Wiki, for those of you who aren't familiar with the show: Main Page - Battlestar Wiki (http://en.battlestarwiki.org)

[Adam]

Day 1

Day ends at 7:00 pm EST on Friday.

1) Brinkenjob
2) Mickthinks
3) JamesBannon
4) Ensign Steve
5) The Tick
6) Joshua adams
7) Zero Angel
8) Smilin
9) Nightson
10) Sun Tzu
11) Cappuccino
12) Fragment
13) Crumb
14) Wei yau
15) Beyelzu

[The Tick]

(EDIT: question moved to peanut gallery (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16670))

[beyelzu]

vote adam


:tmtongue:

[Megatron]

Pffft we've not even started yet :P

[Adam]

Next time we nuke a planet, we'll be sure to hit you two!
:cylon:

[mickthinks]

vote beyelzu for being silly

[Adam]

PMs have been sent. Spool up FTL drives and let the game begin!
:cylon:

...and don't think I missed you, mickthinks...you're getting nuked the next time we kill off humanity too!
:cylon:

[Crumb]

Can we get a player list in thread? :please:

[Crumb]

Oh and Vote: Crumb

[Ensign Steve]

Can we get a player list in thread? :please:

Just vote for one of your scummy pals, Crumb. It makes you look innocent later.

[Ensign Steve]

Vote: Crumb

:flowerdance:

[Crumb]

First a jab and then a vote? :chin: I'll take it! :thumbup:

[Joshua Adams]

Are votes supposed to be in blue now, or do the scum merely have a strange posting restriction? I figure it's one or the other.

Well, until that's cleared up, this guy seems incredibly fishy, so:
vote: :cylon:

[Crumb]

Blue is a vote for the "mayor" or whatever Adam calls it. Black is a vote to lynch.

[fragment]

Checking in. Let's go get them toasters.

Anyone want to give me a reason to vote for them for mayor?

[Ensign Steve]

My experience (not much) with mayors is that it just kind of has to be arbitrary. If people have to start campaigning, it gets all wonky.

[mickthinks]

And if you're voting to airlock the mayor Chief, the colour you want is green.

vote crumb

[Joshua Adams]

Does anyone think it's important enough to track votes for the mayor Chief of Security (Yeah, I'm doing the usual format)?

[Ensign Steve]

Does anyone think it's important enough to track votes for the mayor Chief of Security (Yeah, I'm doing the usual format)?

What do you mean? Track for the purpose of deciding a winner? (Yes.) Or track for the purpose of figuring out motives and roles? (No.)

[fragment]

So no kissing babies (half-cylon hybrids or not), no promises of a better dawn, no promises to save supporters from lynching?

So Chief of Security is a tie-breaker and that's it? I guess that's not going to come up often enough to be a game-critical choice, so the arbitrary choice is probably OK. I'm wondering if Crumb's got the right idea with voting for himself, but I'm going to wait a bit to see what a few others say before I cast my vote.

[fragment]

What do you mean? Track for the purpose of deciding a winner? (Yes.) Or track for the purpose of figuring out motives and roles? (No.)
You don't want town to track motives? Vote Ensign Steve.

[Ensign Steve]

:shrug: Whatever. I was just going by how they do things at the other place. Everybody just votes for Tears as a matter of course.

[Joshua Adams]

Does anyone think it's important enough to track votes for the mayor Chief of Security (Yeah, I'm doing the usual format)?

What do you mean? Track for the purpose of deciding a winner? (Yes.) Or track for the purpose of figuring out motives and roles? (No.)I meant the latter... I will of course be tracking lynch votes. For those who forgot or never played with me, here's what it looks like:

beyelzu.........................
brikenjon.......................
cappuccino......................
Crumb...........................
Ensign Steve....................
fragment........................
JamesBannon.....................
Joshua Adams....................
mickthinks......................Crumb(1)
Nightson........................
Smilin..........................
Sun Tzu.........................
The Tick........................
wei yau.........................
Zero Angel......................


If I were to, say, vote for beyelzu (I'm choosing him simply because he's on top), I would put beyelzu(2) after my name. So this keeps track of the exact order of a day's votes, unlike the tally which simply records the current votes of each player.

[Ensign Steve]

So Chief of Security is a tie-breaker and that's it? I guess that's not going to come up often enough to be a game-critical choice, so the arbitrary choice is probably OK.
Exactly.

You don't want town to track motives?
When the fuck did I say anything about "town"?

[Nightson]

Vote for me for no real reason!

[Joshua Adams]

You don't want town to track motives?
When the fuck did I say anything about "town"?Ya rly. This looks more like a space ship to me.

[Ensign Steve]

Also, sorry, I meant to say Frak.

[Joshua Adams]

:shrug:

vote: Nightson

[Crumb]

preemptive retaliatory vote Smilin

And vote for me for mayor, because I am Crumb. :snoopy:

[Crumb]

Sorry, Chief of Security

[fragment]

You don't want town to track motives?
When the fuck did I say anything about "town"?Ya rly. This looks more like a space ship to me.
I was going by the gameplay in the On The Waterfront thread. I'll roleplay this thing more if that's the way it's going to be done.

Frakkin' toasters!

[Joshua Adams]

I'm sure everyone will slip into standard mafiaese. It happens in every theme game. I was just being a smartass, like pretty much everything else I say.

[brikenjon]

VOTE CRUMB

That means I'm voting for Crumb for Security Chief, right?

[cappuccino]

Vote, Vote or Vote? Oy my head is frakking hurting already.

Crumb was a good DM during the Waterfront game so I'll vote for him as Chief.

Vote: Crumb

[Sun Tzu]

I'm checking in. I don't know who to vote for for now so I'll wait.

[Crumb]

Thanks for the Chief votes. :wiggum:

How many do I need?

[Joshua Adams]

Adam never said when the day officially ends, did he? What the heck is that reserved post for anyway? God damn cylon-loving bastard.

vote: Crumb

[Sun Tzu]

vote Crumb

[Adam]

Can we get a player list in thread? :please:

Adam never said when the day officially ends, did he? What the heck is that reserved post for anyway? God damn cylon-loving bastard.

The requested information has been edited into the formerly reserved post 2. Humans, as my kind has always maintained, are a failed creation, and your slacker mod, who claims to have been in a hurry to meet his girlfriend for dinner, is no exception.
:cylon:

[Joshua Adams]

Thanks Adam. Just to be clear, it ends on Friday, right?

[fragment]

Vote Crumb

[Adam]

Thanks Adam. Just to be clear, it ends on Friday, right?

I see some of you humans are quick enough to have read post 2 before the idiot running this game edited the word "Friday" into it.
:cylon:

[Joshua Adams]

If only we had a robot moderator. Surely we didn't need that stupid exercise bike that y'all just had to have.

[wei yau]

Checking in and Vote Crumb

[Adam]

My superior electronic brain counts 8 votes for Crumb. Crumb is now the Chief of Security
:cylon:

Crumb is the new Mayor Chief of Security

His sole role as Chief is to break ties at nightfall. If he is on one bandwagon, that bandwagon wins. If he has abstained, I'll ask him to post and break the tie.

[Megatron]

Vote: Tears oh, wait. Wrong board.

Is Crumb the FF TitR?

[The Tick]

vote cappuccino
For pretending not knowing whether to use blue, green or black in voting - yet there's blue chief vote in the end of capp's post http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/images/icons/judge.gif

[Megatron]

I'm checking in. I don't know who to vote for for now so I'll wait.

Vote: Sun Tzu for not knowing who to vote for.

---Insert OMGUS Here---

[JamesBannon]

Well, I see we're off and running. I'm making breakfast, back soon.

[mickthinks]

Hmmm... are you any good at toast, James?

[JamesBannon]

Hmmm... are you any good at toast, James?

Nah, Mick. I always burn the toast :giggles:

Oh, yeah a vote: vote Nightson

Revenge votes FTW :muahaha:

[Nightson]

Oh My God Yuo Suck

vote: JamesBannon

Clearly scum. Might as well roleclaim now James. :popcorn:

[JamesBannon]

:ptht:

[The Tick]

Yeh James - how about roleclaiming a cop and then say how you get roleblocked & framed every night? And don't forget to claim insanity http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/images/smilies/_scotland__by_Gulivar.gif

:D

[cappuccino]

:laugh: yeah James, go ahead roleclaim, for old times' sake!

[beyelzu]

vote joshua adams

I'm just not getting a good vibe off of him.

[beyelzu]

Invisible bastards

[Smilin]

preemptive retaliatory vote Smilin

And vote for me for mayor, because I am Crumb. :snoopy:

First, you threw me under the bus when we were fellow scum SUPPOSED to be watching each other's backs...,,,,,now you're voting for me in retaliation?......:cryhome:

You're sounding like my employer....or in league with my estranged wife.....

Can we unvote the mayor Adam?

[Adam]

Can we unvote the mayor Adam?

No. If you want a new Chief, you'll have to throw this one out the airlock first.
:cylon:

[wei yau]

All this frakkin' banter is accomplishing nothing! We need to find the Toaster in our midst before the Cylons attack again. It's almost as this forced levity is being used to distract us from the task at hand.

Based on this, and, sadly, little else. I'm going to vote: Smilin

[Smilin]

Can we unvote the mayor Adam?

No. If you want a new Chief, you'll have to throw this one out the airlock first.
:cylon:

:plotting:.....:ffevil:

[Crumb]

Don't give him any ideas toaster! :shaketoaster: (We do now need a shake cylon smiley)

I voted for you because I assumed your first vote would be for me Smlin. I was proved wrong. :yup: unvote

I'll vote:Jamesbannon for not making me any breakfast.

[Smilin]

I'm with you on that, Crumb....

He's cookin' breakfast?

Probably using a toaster too...

Toaster's hang together...

vote James Bannon

Now is the point where he'll role claim...:roflmao:

[Ensign Steve]

What's up, dudes? Can I get a vote count?

Don't forget that in a timed game like this, there is no hammer. It's really easy to just vote (or not vote) and wait for the day to end. Vote wisely, is my point.

[JamesBannon]

:noway: :powerpoke:

ETA: Meant for Crumb, Smilin & Nightson

[Crumb]

You won't make me breakfast? :cry:

[Crumb]

Don't forget that in a timed game like this, there is no hammer. It's really easy to just vote (or not vote) and wait for the day to end. Vote wisely, is my point.
Ah, very good point ES. The timed game is really an advantage for the scum... er cylons, because it makes it easier to lay low and not vote for airlocking as many people.

It also means we need to accelerate into the info gathering stage of day 1, because we only have today and tomorrow to make a good day 1 decision.

So from ground zero, can you name your top two suspects right now? (granted there isn't :shit: to go on yet.)

[Ensign Steve]

So from ground zero, can you name your top two suspects right now? (granted there isn't :shit: to go on yet.)

Unfortunately not at the moment. I haven't had internet at home for the last 2 days :shakecode: so I'm only able to sneak on at work, which is not really conducive to in-depth analysis. I intend to go down to the t-mobile hotspot this evening, however, and catch up on lots of things, and I'll make this a priority.

[Smilin]

:noway: :powerpoke:

ETA: Meant for Crumb, Smilin & Nightson

you do realize there is a "copy" of you using the same exact avatar here don't yah?

Goes by the username of "Suds"

1. You're friends with a toaster
2. You have a "duplicate" model running around the forum
3. You didn't share your breakfast...

You...are seeming more and more like a cylon to me....:D

[Adam]

What's up, dudes? Can I get a vote count?

By your command.
:cylon:

1) Brinkenjon - 0 - ......
2) Mickthinks - 0 - ......
3) JamesBannon - 3 - ..... nightson, crumb, smilin
4) Ensign Steve - 1 - .... fragment
5) The Tick. - 0 - .......
6) Joshua adams - 1 - .... beyelzu
7) Zero Angel - 0 - ......
8) Smilin - 1 - .......... wei yau
9) Nightson - 2 - ........ joshua adams, jamesbannon
10) Sun Tzu - 1 - ........ zero angel
11) Cappuccino - 1 - ..... the tick
12) Fragment - 0 - .......
13) Crumb - 1 - .......... mickthinks
14) Wei yau - 0 - ........
15) Beyelzu - 0 - ........

Not voting: brikenjon, Ensign Steve, Sun Tzu, Cappuccino

[Megatron]

In timed games, it's not rare to see the scum lurk and/or hang in the shadows as much as possible. Everyone needs to get a good round of posts in at some point before the day starts winding down.

That being said, well, I agree with Crumb that we ain't got :shit:

Although, I have to say Smilin looks a bit fishy for throwing a 3rd vote on JB in random.

We got anyone that hasn't posted yet?

[beyelzu]

Smilin following you around in votes is pretty damn suspicious as well

[Smilin]

In timed games, it's not rare to see the scum lurk and/or hang in the shadows as much as possible. Everyone needs to get a good round of posts in at some point before the day starts winding down.

That being said, well, I agree with Crumb that we ain't got :shit:

Although, I have to say Smilin looks a bit fishy for throwing a 3rd vote on JB in random.
We got anyone that hasn't posted yet?

We pressure him...he'll role claim, you see?

I'm just enjoying the game at the moment...my vote will come off him and go on a "lurker" soon enough.....

[Crumb]

In timed games, it's not rare to see the scum lurk and/or hang in the shadows as much as possible.
Good point, ZA.

Here are the folks who haven't voted yet:
Brinkenjon
Ensign Steve
The Tick
Sun Tzu
Cappuccino

So this is my initial suspect list.

unvote; vote: Brinkenjon

[Smilin]

Smilin following you around in votes is pretty damn suspicious as well

Following me ANYWHERE would be a mistake, my friend.....in this make-believe game or in life.....

Following me will only result in:
1. Getting your ass lost
2. Getting your ass arrested/pulled over/searched/ticketed
3. Getting your ass canned at work....

:wave:

[JamesBannon]

you do realize there is a "copy" of you using the same exact avatar here don't yah?

Actually, I think suds had :animal: before me which would me a copy of suds. :wink:

[Ensign Steve]

In timed games, it's not rare to see the scum lurk and/or hang in the shadows as much as possible.
Good point, ZA.

Here are the folks who haven't voted yet:
Brinkenjon
Ensign Steve
The Tick
Sun Tzu
Cappuccino

So this is my initial suspect list.

unvote; vote: Brinkenjon

I'll vote this evening. Then y'all can have all day tomorrow to figure out what it all means!

[Smilin]

In timed games, it's not rare to see the scum lurk and/or hang in the shadows as much as possible.
Good point, ZA.

Here are the folks who haven't voted yet:
Brinkenjon
Ensign Steve
The Tick
Sun Tzu
Cappuccino

So this is my initial suspect list.

unvote; vote: Brinkenjon

Indeed....

Unvote
Vote Sun Tzu

Non-participators/lurkers are no. 1 toaster suspects...

:stwitch: @ ES

[Ensign Steve]

you do realize there is a "copy" of you using the same exact avatar here don't yah?

Actually, I think suds had :animal: before me which would me a copy of suds. :wink:

I think that's the point. Aren't the Cylons the copies?

[Smilin]

you do realize there is a "copy" of you using the same exact avatar here don't yah?

Actually, I think suds had :animal: before me which would me a copy of suds. :wink:

I think that's the point. Aren't the Cylons the copies?

yep....the "improved" versions are human copies...

And all the female "versions" are all hawt...

ES is female...

ES is hawt...

hmmmmmmmmmm.............:chin:

[Ensign Steve]

My character is hot, too, but it ain't a cylon. :nope:

Then again, most people on TV are hot, so that's not really saying much.

[cappuccino]

I don't have much. The quiet ones are my suspects so far, that's something to start with.

The only one that is really picking at my brain is Smilin. Smilin because he seems to be making a lot of noise and flashy posts. Is he trying to distract us or is he just being his usual glamorous self?

I'm curious to see how Joshua Adams turn out, his posts are rather adamesque and The Tick was adamesque too and he turned out to be scum. It seems like everytime somebody is adamesque, they turn out to be scum. But that's probably my cognitive bias talking.

[Ensign Steve]

:lol:

[beyelzu]

I don't have much. The quiet ones are my suspects so far, that's something to start with.

The only one that is really picking at my brain is Smilin. Smilin because he seems to be making a lot of noise and flashy posts. Is he trying to distract us or is he just being his usual glamorous self?

I'm curious to see how Joshua Adams turn out, his posts are rather adamesque and The Tick was adamesque too and he turned out to be scum. It seems like everytime somebody is adamesque, they turn out to be scum. But that's probably my cognitive bias talking.

Indeed, if someone isnt going to be active, we have to vote them off.

It is probably a little early yet, but lynch the silent ones is something that pretty much has to be done.

[Smilin]

The only one that is really picking at my brain is Smilin. Smilin because he seems to be making a lot of noise and flashy posts. Is he trying to distract us or is he just being his usual glamorous self?

I do tend to make a lot of noise at everything I do...

Me...glamorous? :roflmao::giggle:

You've actually made my day Capp...

and don't worry...my carrying on and noise rattling is getting ready to grind to a minimum...

I actually got give a job task today....:yup::D

[cappuccino]

cool :D

yeah bey, the quiet ones are frustrating, if they signed up to play the game, then show up dammit. I know I sometimes get carried away with work and don't come back till hours later but still...

I have to get back to work but I'll come back in the evening and try to make an informed vote.

[wei yau]

Great point about the timed game being an advantage, ES.

We still have a day, so we can afford to bide our time for a little while longer. Usually, I'm not a proponent of airlocking the quiet ones, but given that lurking is a good Cylon tactic in this timed game, I can see the merits.

Still, we've got little to go on...

I'm keeping my vote on Smilin...for now. Yeah, he posts a lot and it's either (a) his usual self or (b) an act to mimic his "usual self" to avoid suspicion. Maybe he's changed his first day behavior, but in my first game with him, he usually went pretty hard after someone, pretty early.

He did this with lot of attempts to encourage others to vote his way.

He's not doing that now, so either his gameplay has evolved or his attempts to mimic the manic ways of "Smilin" is focusing too heavily on the "mania" and less on the lynch-mob.

[Smilin]

...

I'm keeping my vote on Smilin...for now. Yeah, he posts a lot and it's either (a) his usual self or (b) an act to mimic his "usual self" to avoid suspicion.

(c) bored at work with very little to do and enjoy carrying on with the people here I've come to know as friends.

Just check my posting history and you'll see I've been just as active and "manic" in MANY other threads today, yesterday, and the day before.....

The people here amuse me....and that's a bad thing? It's either this or actually have to STUDY for my professional engineering license....

oh yeah...add procrastinator to your list of "Smilin" facts.....


Maybe he's changed his first day behavior, but in my first game with him, he usually went pretty hard after someone, pretty early.

:lecher: my strategy has been different in each game....


He did this with lot of attempts to encourage others to vote his way.

Yes. And I always wound up lynched as a result of that, now didn't I? With the exception of one game where that fucker crumb threw me under the bus, I've always turned up "town" too....

You forgot that point, now didn't you?

That's why in the last game I FULLY expected to get lynched after making my case against Nightson....

He's not doing that now, so either his gameplay has evolved or his attempts to mimic the manic ways of "Smilin" is focusing too heavily on the "mania" and less on the lynch-mob.

Actually, this is a quiet, useful diversion for me in life, like spending time with my boys and playing WoW is for me.

That's it in a nutshell, Wei. I'm here to distract myself while at work.....nothing more.

[Sun Tzu]

vote Smilin

All the noise with little substance seems like scum trying to hide in the crowd.

[Sun Tzu]

Why is someone invisible?

[Crumb]

Normally I think that would make sense, but this is really normal Smilin behavior. I don't think it is very telling. :dunno:

[Smilin]

The lurker emerges....

Unvote

Now it's simply a matter of who else is just lurking/not participating

[Sun Tzu]

Ok, well not babbling about toast etc. is how I play.

[Crumb]

Anti-toast babbling is a scum tell! :youmad:

[Smilin]

Normally I think that would make sense, but this is really normal Smilin behavior. I don't think it is very telling. :dunno:

Yes, I'm going through a manic phase if ya'll can't tell. That's the up side...the down side is when the depression will eventually set it....

OOOOHHHHH...LET'S LYNCH SMILIN' JUST CUZ HE'S POSTING SOO DAMMM much....

Makes about as much sense as Mick carrying on about VM, or that the wrath of god is about to strike us all because of all the lesbians, or the Liv isn't a real person initially made up by VM.....

:glare:

gimme a break!

[beyelzu]

4 invisible people right now.

Ive got my eye on you bastards, sort of.

[JamesBannon]

Why is someone invisible?
Probably because they're allowed to be in this game.

[Smilin]

Why is someone invisible?

Because I've busted scum in two seperate games watching for PM activity after nightfall was declared...YAYYYYY ME!

and everyone is apparantly paranoid at this point....

The first time it happened was with Adam (our GM) and Wei yau (one of my accusors)

Noone would listen, they both turned up scum, and I was lynched....

What little fact that wei DIDN'T point out to you is that in every single game I have almost always carried on like this and with the EXCEPTION of one game in which I was scum with Crumb, I have always turned up town.....

So....trying to lynch me for being "too talkative" is a definate scum tell in my play experience....

[Smilin]

4 invisible people right now.

Ive got my eye on you bastards, sort of.

Those x-ray glasses that let you either detect invisible people or see through peoples clothing advertised in comic books are just a cheap gimmick....yah know?

[The Tick]

In timed games, it's not rare to see the scum lurk and/or hang in the shadows as much as possible.
Good point, ZA.

Here are the folks who haven't voted yet:
Brinkenjon
Ensign Steve
The Tick
Sun Tzu
Cappuccino

So this is my initial suspect list.

unvote; vote: Brinkenjon
Actually, I had voted cappuccino - so you can take me off from your suspect list. :P


I don't have much. The quiet ones are my suspects so far, that's something to start with.

The only one that is really picking at my brain is Smilin. Smilin because he seems to be making a lot of noise and flashy posts. Is he trying to distract us or is he just being his usual glamorous self?


I'm curious to see how Joshua Adams turn out, his posts are rather adamesque and The Tick was adamesque too and he turned out to be scum. It seems like everytime somebody is adamesque, they turn out to be scum. But that's probably my cognitive bias talking.
Yeh, and don't forget how JamesBannon looked the scummiest people ever - and he turned out to be a cop!

:giggle:

Why is someone invisible?
The moment I catched Smilin using "Who's online" thingy watching me checking PMs (and basically catched me that way) I went invisible.

Will *never* be visible again. :D

Normally I think that would make sense, but this is really normal Smilin behavior. I don't think it is very telling. :dunno:

Yes, I'm going through a manic phase if ya'll can't tell. That's the up side...the down side is when the depression will eventually set it....

OOOOHHHHH...LET'S LYNCH SMILIN' JUST CUZ HE'S POSTING SOO DAMMM much....

Makes about as much sense as Mick carrying on about VM, or that the wrath of god is about to strike us all because of all the lesbians, or the Liv isn't a real person initially made up by VM.....

:glare:

gimme a break!
Smilin... now you are losing it :cool:

unvote
vote Smilin
Don't freak out :giggle:

[Joshua Adams]

4 invisible people right now.

Ive got my eye on you bastards, sort of.Several of us declared in the sign up thread that we'd go invisible, before PMs were sent out. And several people said they would remain visible. So either way, for these people at least, it literally can't mean anything about our roles. Unless someone went back on their word somewhere.


He did this with lot of attempts to encourage others to vote his way.
Yes. And I always wound up lynched as a result of that, now didn't I? With the exception of one game where that fucker crumb threw me under the bus, I've always turned up "town" too....

You forgot that point, now didn't you?

That's why in the last game I FULLY expected to get lynched after making my case against Nightson....

He's not doing that now
Uh, Smilin, he's saying that you are acting different than you do whenever you're town...

[Smilin]

Smilin... now you are losing it :cool:

unvote
vote Smilin
Don't freak out :giggle:

It's all gravy baby.....:D

[Crumb]

New List of people not voting:
Brinkenjon
Ensign Steve
Cappuccino
Smilin

[Sun Tzu]

In that case, I'm going invisible too.

[beyelzu]

unvote, vote sun tzu

cuz the only reason you would change your mind once the game started is if you intend to send pms.

[Sun Tzu]

No, I won't be sending any PMs.

[beyelzu]

Well, of course you have to deny it now. But deciding after your role is out to go invisible is alot different from declaring preemptively that you will be invisible.

[Sun Tzu]

If I was scum, I don't think I would switch to invisible.

[Smilin]

WHERE THE FRAK DID YOU YOU BASTAGES GO? :D

Vote Brikenjon

Who hasn't been active in the game

[beyelzu]

If I was scum, I don't think I would switch to invisible.

Indeed, I suppose it's possible, yet, you felt the need to go invisible once you realized that the option was available to you.


I just don't trust that.

[Smilin]

Frakken invisible toasters! :D

[Sun Tzu]

If I was scum, I don't think I would switch to invisible.

Indeed, I suppose it's possible, yet, you felt the need to go invisible once you realized that the option was available to you.


I just don't trust that.

Someone explained that they had gotten "caught" in a previous game by someone watching "Who's Online". Using something outside the game to influence the game seems like cheating to me and should be discouraged. Everyone going invisible is the simplest way to bypass that.

If a police officer knocks on my door and asks if he can look around, I'm going to tell him to go get a warrant. If you think that implies I have something to hide, that's your problem.

[Sun Tzu]

If I was scum, I probably would have stayed visible and continued to lay suspicion on the invisible people. It's easy enough to send PMs without being noticed. You just need to have another tab or window open and refresh it right after you send a PM.

In fact, this line of thinking makes me suspicious of you.

[fragment]

:yawn:

Coming on to my shift. I'm not seeing much to base any suspicions on yet. I'm thinking of going with the idea of putting pressure on the quiet ones, although lying low might indicate town specials as well as scum, mightn't it?

[Smilin]

Someone explained that they had gotten "caught" in a previous game by someone watching "Who's Online". Using something outside the game to influence the game seems like cheating to me and should be discouraged. Everyone going invisible is the simplest way to bypass that.

What you consider "cheating"...I considered both times to sneaky, underhanded, and since It's becoming more all about "me"....dare I say ingenious...:D

Bey brings up a good point...had you nothing to hide, and it was in the original rules published from the start...WHY would you go invisible? You didn't UNTIL I pointed out it was I who busted Wei, Adam, ES and The Tick using that method.

Bey is good at sniffing out scum...errrrrrr...toaster...:D

and then you conveniently pile on the bandwagon gaining momentum on me?

Unvote
Vote Sun Tzu

Back to shark mode....

Wei and the Ticks Vote I just count as a grudge frack...you know paybacks for busting their asses once before....

You're hopping on...AND going invisible AFTER I revealed that's how I've busted scum in two previous games has revealed who you are!

Remember..."Noone will hear you scream in space"...

Frakkin' toaster!

[fragment]

OK, I've decided that the non-voting list isn't the best indicator of silence, as there are a couple of people who have done little more than thrown a barely explained vote. I don't think lying low is suspicious in itself, but we need to get people to speak up and see if they let anything slip.

It's been nearly a full day since this started, and everyone's had a chance to post at least once. Here's my list of those who haven't done much of any substance in that time:

JamesBannon
mickthinks
Nightson
Brikenjon
Zero Angel

(no particular order, based on fairly arbitrary criteria of what seemed like substance to me when I was reading the thread)

Of those who have posted a bit more, well there's some stuff I could consider suspicious, but not very, and it's not really out of character for those people, so I'm not going to start throwing any accusations about just yet.

So, in keeping with the plan of getting the silent's talking, unvote; Vote Nightson, because all he's managed to do is a retaliatory vote against JamesBannon.

[Sun Tzu]

Someone explained that they had gotten "caught" in a previous game by someone watching "Who's Online". Using something outside the game to influence the game seems like cheating to me and should be discouraged. Everyone going invisible is the simplest way to bypass that.

What you consider "cheating"...I considered both times to sneaky, underhanded, and since It's becoming more all about "me"....dare I say ingenious...:D

Bey brings up a good point...had you nothing to hide, and it was in the original rules published from the start...WHY would you go invisible? You didn't UNTIL I pointed out it was I who busted Wei, Adam, ES and The Tick using that method.

Bey is good at sniffing out scum...errrrrrr...toaster...:D

and then you conveniently pile on the bandwagon gaining momentum on me?

Unvote
Vote Sun Tzu

Back to shark mode....

Wei and the Ticks Vote I just count as a grudge frack...you know paybacks for busting their asses once before....

You're hopping on...AND going invisible AFTER I revealed that's how I've busted scum in two previous games has revealed who you are!

Remember..."Noone will hear you scream in space"...

Frakkin' toaster!

This is stupid. I already told you that it's easy to get around PM-watching. I was going to change my vote to beyelzu, but I think it's good where it is. You are likely scum and if you're not, you think poorly enough and make enough noise to be a detriment to the colonials.

[Smilin]

This is stupid. I already told you that it's easy to get around PM-watching.

ohhhh young padewon....you really think there aren't other ways around that?


I was going to change my vote to beyelzu,

I realize you're new here. He's a dick, and I'm a balding, overweight, middle-aged guy who still likes to imagine he's in his twenties....

but I think it's good where it is. You are likely scum

Not according to the PM I got...you got a different memo? care to share that one?

and if you're not, you think poorly enough and make enough noise to be a detriment to the colonials.

1. WHEN they have work for me to do...I get paid to think...when our workload is down...I post like crazy on this forum...yes, I'm in a manic phase, but soon after depression will set in.
2. Making noise is what I do in life....I screw with people just to get there reactions....

You, my toaster friend are the one thinking poorly. Bey calls you out, and now you're turning your frustrations out on me...:tsktsk:

and apparantly you're in league with my estranged wife I see.....:glare::fuming:

[Ensign Steve]

bey and Smilin' are right. Sun Tzu is scummy as hell. First you call people out for being invisible. Then you go invisible yourself. Then you call bey and Smilin' out for calling you out on it. Whatever, dude!

vote: Sun Tzu

[Smilin]

AND my vote stays on you as well, Sun...

Et tu Brute?

[Ensign Steve]

Also, FYI, people on Smilin's bandwagon... he is acting always acts, regardless of role.

[Smilin]

Why has the "Thanks" function been disabled on this thread?

[Ensign Steve]

Sometimes the javascript eats the button. Navigate away from the thread and then come back.

[Smilin]

Also, FYI, people on Smilin's bandwagon... he is acting always acts, regardless of role.

:bubbles::kiss:

[Crumb]

You can't thank someone if you have cross posted with them.

I always hate to lynch the new people on day 1, but the invisible thing does make Sun Tzu look scummy.

I'd like to hear from Brik though. Is he aware of this thread?

[Smilin]

Also, FYI, people on Smilin's bandwagon... he is acting always acts, regardless of role.

Wei and The Tick are just being dicks and frakking with me...:D

They'll come around eventually....unless...they're toasters!:giggle:

[Joshua Adams]

He posted once, to vote you for Chief of Security mayor Chief of Security.

[Joshua Adams]

That was in regard to Crumb's post, btw.

[Smilin]

You can't thank someone if you have cross posted with them.

I always hate to lynch the new people on day 1, but the invisible thing does make Sun Tzu look scummy.

I'd like to hear from Brik though. Is he aware of this thread?

He's browsing it now.....

[Smilin]

You can't thank someone if you have cross posted with them.

What ES said...JavaScript was eating the button....back to normal now...whatever is normal....


I always hate to lynch the new people on day 1, but the invisible thing does make Sun Tzu look scummy.

I'd like to hear from Brik though. Is he aware of this thread?

:popcorn: I expect him to be posting any second now.....

[Crumb]

Ah, I see that. It may just be that noobs have no clue what to say. I understand that.

[brikenjon]

OK, Crumb... that's a little creepy. I'm here, and aware of this thread. I've just been at work since 5:30 this morning. I work twelve hour rotating shiftwork, without access to this forum, but didn't think it would be that big of a deal with two real life days being the equivalent of one game day.

vote Crumb for stalking me.

[brikenjon]

And now I'm going to go eat dinner... hopefully that's not too suspicious. Do toasters eat anything besides bread?

[Crumb]

Stalk you? :laugh:

Who are your top two suspects, Brik?

unvote; vote mickthinks

[Smilin]

OK, Crumb... that's a little creepy. I'm here, and aware of this thread. I've just been at work since 5:30 this morning. I work twelve hour rotating shiftwork, without access to this forum, but didn't think it would be that big of a deal with two real life days being the equivalent of one game day.

vote Crumb for stalking me.

There has been talk on the forum that he is gay....watch your back dude!

Don't drop the soap....you know the drill?

You people here REALLY crack me up....most of the time...

[Smilin]

And now I'm going to go eat dinner... hopefully that's not too suspicious. Do toasters eat anything besides bread?

I'm leaving for home now....

Gonna drink a 12 pack before I go, though....

Gotta fight through a 20-MILE line of traffic of almost 100,000 hippies waiting to get into an 80 acre corn field....

:sigh:

I'm gonna need some more valium before this week is out...

I'M LEAVIN' NOW....so there will be a LOT LESS noise around here....

Just so ya'll know....

:mutter:

Frakkin' stanky ass hippies!

:oldman:

[fragment]

I'm not sure about this Sun Tzu invisibility thing. Yeah, it can seem a bit scummy (although ineptly so), but his explanation seems reasonable too. Doesn't quite seem like a strong enough case for a lynch.

[Ensign Steve]

Ah, I see that. It may just be that noobs have no clue what to say. I understand that.

Don't worry, guys, we won't lynch you ... much.

[JamesBannon]

:wave:

Sorry, busy trying to save what remains of my ass in Dark Sun. i've still been reading the thread though. My vote stays where it is for the present.

[fragment]

Oh, and Brikenjon can come off my "hasn't done much yet" list, making it:

JamesBannon
mickthinks
Nightson
Zero Angel

[Ensign Steve]

I'm not sure about this Sun Tzu invisibility thing. Yeah, it can seem a bit scummy (although ineptly so), but his explanation seems reasonable too. Doesn't quite seem like a strong enough case for a lynch.

I agree that it's not incredibly strong. If we get a better suspect before nightfall, we can still move the votes around. But unlike in untimed games, somebody gonna die tomorrow. :whup:

I think it would behoove us, those of us who have the means, to check into the thread the few hours before nightfall tomorrow. That way there's no "oh, I wasn't online, I would have changed my vote if I had known..." etc., be it sincere or bullshit.

[Crumb]

Well, honestly he still hasn't done much.

[fragment]

I think it would behoove us, those of us who have the means, to check into the thread the few hours before nightfall tomorrow. That way there's no "oh, I wasn't online, I would have changed my vote if I had known..." etc., be it sincere or bullshit.
Agreed. No-one should be shoved out of the airlock just because we wanted to pressure them a bit. I think we should try to make our last votes of the day whoever we actually think is the scummiest.

Well, honestly he still hasn't done much.
Consider him on probation. :D

[Adam]

Sorry, busy trying to save what remains of my ass in Dark Sun.

If I godkill you hard enough over here, do you think it will carry over to there? :tmtongue:

[Sun Tzu]

OK, whatever. I'll see you guys next game then.

[Sun Tzu]

I'll be invisible next game too, by the way.

[Sun Tzu]

Anyone who thinks anything I've done is scummy is a shitty player.

I'm also somewhat suspicious of anyone defending me (fragment), since the scum know I am not scum and might want to look good that way.

[Sun Tzu]

Here's a tip: the way to catch scum is look at their posts and ask yourself if scum would say that and ask yourself if town would say that. It requires thought but you'll get better at it over time.

[fragment]

It's far from over yet, Sun Tzu.

And sheesh, seems like anyone who says anything about ya is in a damned if ya do, damned if ya don't situation. I'd rather focus attention on those who haven't spoken up much, is all.

[Ensign Steve]

Wow, Sun. Condescend much?

[Sun Tzu]

Wow, Sun. Condescend much?

You guys are the ones calling me a noob while you try to lynch me for doing something scum wouldn't do.

[Ensign Steve]

It's a game. You don't have to make it personal.

[JamesBannon]

Hey, I'm the only one allowed to fuck up in mafia games, OK! :tongueout:

[Ensign Steve]

James, isn't it about time for you to role claim?

[Crumb]

Sun Tzu have you played Mafia before?

I called you a noob as a reason not to lynch you because you are (wait for it...) new here. I didn't realize pointing that out would be insulting.

[Sun Tzu]

No, I'm not insulted and I'm not taking anything personally. I'm also not trying to offend anyone. I'm just asking people to think.

[Crumb]

Sun Tzu have you played Mafia before?

[Sun Tzu]

yes

[Crumb]

Cool. I hope you don't get lynched your first day playing at :ff:.

[brikenjon]

Stalk you? :laugh:

Who are your top two suspects, Brik?

unvote; vote mickthinks

My top two suspects are you, for not protesting too much when I voted to lynch you, and Ensign Steve, for hiding under a plausible plan for victory against the Cylons.

Even if I'm wrong about you, at least I won't get stalked anymore. :cool:

[JamesBannon]

James, isn't it about time for you to role claim?

:sadno: :ptht: :giggle:

[Crumb]

Retaliatory votes don't impress me much. how the hell was I stalking you?

[Ensign Steve]

Ensign Steve, for hiding under a plausible plan for victory against the Cylons.

huh?
:scratch:

[JamesBannon]

Yeah, that kind of confused me as well. :dunno:

[Ensign Steve]

Okay, kids, I'm off for the evening. I decided to get some real plans for tonight instead of going to t-mobile, so my email and banking will have to be put off again, as well as my in-depth analysis of Day 1, which I just know is breaking everybody's hearts.

I'll be back tomorrow, from work, unless by some miracle my internet at home gets turned back on.

:bai:

[JamesBannon]

Later ES. I'm out too. I can hardly keep my eyes open. :bai:

[Sun Tzu]

Ensign Steve seems pretty scummy to me. I'm less convinced of Smilin, so

unvote
vote Ensign Steve

[mickthinks]

beyelzu 106: vote sun tzu cuz the only reason you would change your mind once the game started is if you intend to send pms.
bey, that's bollox. I'm also going invisible now, because I think it's a good suggestion and makes for a better game. Gonna lynch me too?

Crumb 135: vote mickthinks
Was that OMGUS? OMG that's sooo lame LOL!

fragment 141: Brikenjon can come off my "hasn't done much yet" list, making it: JamesBannon, mickthinks, Nightson, Zero Angel
By the time I logged off this morning I had posted 6% of the thread. I come back a few hours later and, not surprisingly, the thread has grown and my share is looking thin, so you are right to put me on your list. But you take Brik off for a post which merely catches up with me. Interesting! Do you have a reason for shifting suspicion away from Brik so quickly?

[brikenjon]

Retaliatory votes don't impress me much. how the hell was I stalking you?

Because I'm an idiot. I was trying to read too fast before leaving for dinner. It was Smilin that was stalking me. He was quoting you while doing it, though. His shape-shifting, voice-throwing ways addled my mind. Obviously a Cylon!

I'd like to hear from Brik though. Is he aware of this thread?

He's browsing it now.....

UNVOTE CRUMB

VOTE SMILIN

Ensign Steve, for hiding under a plausible plan for victory against the Cylons.

huh?
:scratch:

Another slight misread. It was your suggestion, Crumb's plan. Now my suspicions are diluted. Is it more Cylon mind-trickery?


Don't forget that in a timed game like this, there is no hammer. It's really easy to just vote (or not vote) and wait for the day to end. Vote wisely, is my point.
Ah, very good point ES. The timed game is really an advantage for the scum... er cylons, because it makes it easier to lay low and not vote for airlocking as many people.

It also means we need to accelerate into the info gathering stage of day 1, because we only have today and tomorrow to make a good day 1 decision.

So from ground zero, can you name your top two suspects right now? (granted there isn't :shit: to go on yet.)

My new list!

1. Smilin
2. Crumb
3. Ensign Steve

[mickthinks]

Don't we need to put some pressure on someone soon? Who's nearest the airlock at the moment?

[fragment]

But you take Brik off for a post which merely catches up with me. Interesting! Do you have a reason for shifting suspicion away from Brik so quickly?
Brikenjon got off the list mostly by directly responding to his absence being noted (the same's about to happen to you) and giving a reason for his vote on Crumb helped too (you didn't). I'm basing it on whether people have done much worth adding to my notes as I read the thread. It's not a suspicion list. If anyone stays quiet after having that quietness discussed, I will probably get suspicious - although I might have better reasons to suspect others by then.

Current list of quiets:

JamesBannon
Nightson
Zero Angel

[fragment]

Don't we need to put some pressure on someone soon? Who's nearest the airlock at the moment?
I think that's still Sun Tzu, but a vote tally would be handy. Think I'll try to knock one together.

[wei yau]

We still have sometime, though I'm less convinced of Smilin's guilt. Although, I just might airlock the bastard if he brings up his whole "busting" me thing one more frakkin' time.

Still I see no great reason to move my vote. Still have until tomorrow evening and I can't see how shifting my vote is gonna pressure anyone who hasn't already felt pressure so far.

[Crumb]

unvote

vote: Nightson

[Nightson]

unvote

Random voting stage is over.

I'm thinking.

[Crumb]

unvote

[mickthinks]

It's not a suspicion list. If anyone stays quiet after having that quietness discussed, I will probably get suspicious
Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Nightson's third post is on its way even as we speak, I'm guessing. I'm looking forward to reading it. He had a lot of useful stuff to say in the Waterfront game before he was lynched.

[mickthinks]

(Okay, I guess it's his fourth or fifth post I'm looking forward to reading ...)

[fragment]

I haven't double-checked this:

Sun Tzu: 4 votes - Ensign Steve, Smilin, beyelzu, Zero Angel
Nightson: 4 votes - fragment, JamesBannon, Joshua Adams, Crumb
Smilin: 3 votes - Brikenjon, The Tick, wei yau
JamesBannon: 1 vote - Nightson
Crumb: 1 vote - mickthinks
Ensign Steve: 1 vote - Sun Tzu

Not voting - cappucino

[cappuccino]

Whoa, a few people's getting heated under their collars.

I know the feeling sun tzu, I've gotten pissed off and defensive when I felt like people were jumping on me for no reason.

For what it's worth, I don't think you're Cylon, yes you made a scummy post right there, but not a Toaster.

I haven't seen Zero Angel really make any contributions, I realize he's in Australia....but here's some pressure to see how he responds.

Vote: Zero Angel

[fragment]

And while I was doing that it became obsolete.

Sun Tzu: 4 votes - Ensign Steve, Smilin, beyelzu, Zero Angel
Nightson: 3 votes - fragment, JamesBannon, Joshua Adams
Smilin: 3 votes - Brikenjon, The Tick, wei yau
Crumb: 1 vote - mickthinks
Ensign Steve: 1 vote - Sun Tzu

Not voting - cappucino, Crumb, Nightson

[fragment]

:shakeshake:

Sun Tzu: 4 votes - Ensign Steve, Smilin, beyelzu, Zero Angel
Nightson: 3 votes - fragment, JamesBannon, Joshua Adams
Smilin: 3 votes - Brikenjon, The Tick, wei yau
Crumb: 1 vote - mickthinks
Ensign Steve: 1 vote - Sun Tzu
Zero Angel: 1 vote - cappuccino

Not voting - Crumb, Nightson

[Nightson]

My post is actually going to be typed out around 12 PST. Dinner now, raiding later, but I'm mulling it over.

[Joshua Adams]

brikenjon, it says right there at the bottom of the page who is reading the thread... there's no reason to imagine that anyone is "stalking you" if they know you are reading. Right now it's me, fragment, Nightson, and 4 other people (invisible), apparently.

I have the tally right here, so:

[removed since it's wrong and probably confusing]

[Joshua Adams]

Oh crap I think my page needed to be refreshed... sorry guys I missed like 6 or 7 posts there

[mickthinks]

Okay, it's early days and I've still nothing much to go on, but though I say bey's invisibility theory is cracked, I'm going to shove Sun nearer the airlock to see if he sweats chrome.

unvote: vote Sun Tzu

Sun Tzu: 5 votes - Ensign Steve, Smilin, beyelzu, Zero Angel, mickthinks
Nightson: 3 votes - fragment, JamesBannon, Joshua Adams
Smilin: 3 votes - Brikenjon, The Tick, wei yau
Ensign Steve: 1 vote - Sun Tzu
Zero Angel: 1 vote - cappuccino

Not voting - Crumb, Nightson

[Crumb]

What's the point in that? He already went off and defended himself. What more do you expect to get from him?

[cappuccino]

yeah mickthinks, Sun's already pretty much said his piece. One could think that you're really trying to push the bandwagon along due to hidden motives.

[mickthinks]

I don't expect anything from him. That's kind of what "I've still nothing much to go on" was supposed to mean. But 4 votes in a 15 player game isn't much of a threat, and who knows what may come out of the tube if we squeeze a bit harder?

[mickthinks]

I thought exploratory bandwagons were considered good for town?

[cappuccino]

well yeah up to a certain point, it just seems to me that we've gotten what we needed from Sun. You're of course welcome to try to squeeze the tube more but I'm wondering that perhaps you're trying to slip a vote in without looking too suspicious.

Alright I'm off to bed, I'll see you guys tomorrow morning from work.

[mickthinks]

LOL We are all trying not to look suspicious, aren't we? Jumping on a bandwagon is maybe not the strongest reason for casting a vote, but if it needs justification then I have Ensign Steve, Smilin, beyelzu and Zero Angel to help provide it.

well yeah up to a certain point ... and that point is 4 votes?

we've gotten what we needed from Sun. You mean there's nothing more Sun can give us to help us win? How in hyperspace do you know that?

[Crumb]

It just doesn't seem like one extra vote at this point means much. :shrug:

[mickthinks]

I agree, but there is no other way to increase the squeeze, and every little helps, I think. Are you guys through with the strange objections to Sun being pushed?

[Joshua Adams]

I agree with Crumb and capp, just increasing the number of votes isn't going to make him say anything new if there aren't any new accusations. If it were closer to nightfall, he might claim a role, but that's about it.

[Joshua Adams]

That said, it might be nice to hear what, specifically, he finds scummy about Ensign Steve. I'm not saying she looks especially innocent to me, but in the interests of "applying pressure"...

[Nightson]

So tired. But I promised a post.

I wasn't liking this defense of Sun Tzu without taking a stance on him thing. Seems scummy to me but there's far too many people doing it to have them all be scum so that pauses me. There was something that bugged me in the previous pages too, I'll go back and read over them again tomorrow. Right now I need to crash so I'll see you guys tomorrow.

[Megatron]

I'm not in Australia, I'm in Germany... and it's been less than 12 hours since my last post, so I'm not sure how that makes me all that quiet :P

Anyway, my vote on Sun Tzu was actually in the random phase. Unvote - enough of that.

More to come, I haven't finished my coffee yet.

[Megatron]

Oh man, this shit blew up. Looks like it's going to take a little longer than I expected to break everything down. I have an appointment at the evil dentist today, and I don't expect it to be much fun.

A few things:

The Sun Tzu bandwagon amuses me, but I can't say it came without reason, since all he's really done is yell at people for calling him a noob. He made a decent enough vote on Smilin but the ES vote came out of frakkin' nowhere.

Obviously, Smilin is making a lot of noise... for those of you who weren't in my game a while back, he does this a lot. Not so sure it's a scum tell, though - especially since he's started posting more content lately.

Crumb's not giving me much in the way of tells at all, but... well, that's Crumb. For that matter, I'm not getting much of JB, Nightson, brikenjon and Fragment (utter lack of content - posting a vote count isn't content, and neither is one long post that basically says "hey guys you're not active"... especially when that's your only substance to date). No idea what to make of Joshua Adams yet either.

ES seems pro-town, but I'm not quite sure yet. Same with capp and wei.

mickthinks asks who's the nearest to the airlock then stacks a 5th vote on Sun, calling it an "exploratory bandwagon". Hmm...

bey and The Tick haven't posted in a while, and I don't have much to go on there.

[The Tick]

I thought exploratory bandwagons were considered good for town?
Yep, they can be - your vote looked like seemed to come after we got responses.

The Sun Tzu bandwagon amuses me, but I can't say it came without reason, since all he's really done is yell at people for calling him a noob. He made a decent enough vote on Smilin but the ES vote came out of frakkin' nowhere.
I agree that this "people are invisible/visible - makes them scum/townies" is amusing talk (especially after seeing what happened in the last game: no wonder people go invisible - and it's freaking day-1). Reasoning that "you should have said it earlier if you go invisible" is crappy logic. It's day-1.

In fact, I think a scum could try pretend being pro-town by staying visible & watching "who is online" - and then blame others based on this reasoning.

I find Smilin scummy for doing this. He could have been townie in 2 other games (which he keeps reminding), so it could make a good excuse for him to act this way when he is a scum.


Don't forget that in a timed game like this, there is no hammer. It's really easy to just vote (or not vote) and wait for the day to end. Vote wisely, is my point.
Ah, very good point ES. The timed game is really an advantage for the scum... er cylons, because it makes it easier to lay low and not vote for airlocking as many people.

"Ah, very good point ES."? "Ah" as in "Ah, I didn't realize that"?

Crumb - you are experienced player. You are the freaking Chief. You've moderated games. :cool:

Certainly you know how timed games go.

You were also pursuing Sun Tzu based on that useless invisible bandwagon (going invisible on day-1 makes people scums? gimme a break.)

unvote
vote Crumb
- For pretending not knowing that in timed games lynches need to be faster
- Hunting Sun Tzu on crap "go invisible on day-1" reasoning

[Megatron]

Actually, with regard to Smilin (and others for that matter, but him especially), I should probably point out something:

I'm not a fan of metagaming. Believe it or not, it fails more often than it works. "So and so is such and such because he played like ____ in some other game" is a null tell at best, and I find extensive use of such reasoning to be an outright scum flare.

The fun bit here is not only are people attacking Smilin with meta, he's defending with meta. :ROFL:

Also, Tick, with regard to your last bit there, I get the impression that most of the Sun-wagon was based on the invisibility fiasco... bey's vote came from that as well (and is, in fact, all bey's done lately)

[brikenjon]

Alright, everybody seems to be saying in a timed game like this that lynching faster is better for the survival of humanity, and as ironic as it sounds, it seems to make sense to me. Since I'm going to be gone for at least twelve hours and I'm not sure when this first day ends, I'm going to change my vote to Sun Tzu in the interest of getting somebody out the airlock. He's not on my suspect list, which is still 1. Smilin 2. Crumb 3. Ensign Steve, but he does already have 5 votes compared to the nearest 3. My vote will put him two votes away from lynching, if I understand this correctly.

unvote

VOTE SUN TZU

[Megatron]

:alarm: Mafia newbie detected! :alarm:

brik, I think you've misunderstood. Lynching faster isn't better - what's going to happen is that whoever has the most votes at the end of the day WILL be lynched.

That's regardless of whether it's a majority of us or not.

Of course, it benefits the town the most and gives the most info if there's a conclusive lynch target than just a narrow vote margin between several "contestants"... but that's beside the point:

You could actually kill someone with your vote today if you're not going to be around toward the end to change it if need be (i.e. someone comes up not looking as scummy as people originally thought.)

Absolutely don't base a vote off "getting someone out the airlock" - that's going to happen either way.

[JamesBannon]

unvote for now. Fun with Nightson over.

[mickthinks]

Tick: your vote looked like seemed to come after we got responses.
I felt all we got was relatiatory suspicions. Maybe that's all we are going to get, but I don't see how anyone can know this unless their role PM told them more than mine told me.

Three points about building and sustaining real concensus pressure on Sun now:

1. He seems to have a small and shrinking playing window. Yesterday he was off for 16 hours and last night he went off two hours earlier. I'd like to know whether this is all he can manage, because I'm not sure it's enough.

2. If he's chromescum, then badly reasoned defences of him are a scumtell. I'd like to see what kind of defences come from other players while we hold him in front of the lockdoors.

3. There may not be a strong reason to think Sun is higher up the chrome scale than, say, Nightson or Smilin, but I haven't seen a single reason why he can't be. Right now, on what we've got he seems to be a perfectly good candidate if we don't find a better.

[fragment]

Unvote

Looks like everyone's engaged. I'm just checking in quickly before bedtime, and right now I'm really not sure who's been the most suspicious, but I should be able to make it online before day 1 ends.

[cappuccino]

unvote thanks to Zero Angel's contribution, sorry, for some reason I thought you lived in Australia.

[Smilin]

Checking in....

What is the tally count so far?

Fun time last night I see.... :D

[Nightson]

I hate to do this. I might not make it back before the deadline to post at all. I'll leave my vote off for now, and I'll make up for it on day two.

[Smilin]

and before the next round starts on me, I'm hungover from pulling one hell of a drunk last night...

So, I'm not as chatty today.....

My boys went home to spend the weekend with their mother, I took off for Bonneroo.....

Wishing I'd had taken my digital camera along now.

Nothing better to make an :oldman: feel young again than a beautiful, young lady riding on the back of a 4-wheeler with half her ass showing who smiles back at you and blows you a kiss...

FRAK! That was a KODAK moment LOST forever....


So...what's the official tally count, Adam?

[beyelzu]

If I was scum, I probably would have stayed visible and continued to lay suspicion on the invisible people. It's easy enough to send PMs without being noticed. You just need to have another tab or window open and refresh it right after you send a PM.

In fact, this line of thinking makes me suspicious of you.

There is a word for this, I think it's........


wifom.

[beyelzu]

If I was scum, I don't think I would switch to invisible.

Indeed, I suppose it's possible, yet, you felt the need to go invisible once you realized that the option was available to you.


I just don't trust that.

Someone explained that they had gotten "caught" in a previous game by someone watching "Who's Online". Using something outside the game to influence the game seems like cheating to me and should be discouraged. Everyone going invisible is the simplest way to bypass that.

If a police officer knocks on my door and asks if he can look around, I'm going to tell him to go get a warrant. If you think that implies I have something to hide, that's your problem.

I looked at your post announcing your intention to go invisible and nowhere did I see this logic presented. Post hoc rationalizations just don't sit that well for me. Also, a few post later you have an omgus post; that post didn't engender confidence either.

[wei yau]

Alright, it's the start of a critical day. The Cylon attack is imminent, so we need to move now.

unvote

I'm taking my vote off of Smilin, as I am not convinced of his guilt. I am leaning towards Sun Tzu, although I feel bad for it. But, there was a series of rapid fire posts from him which scream desperation.

Hell, I'd be desperate too, if I were about to e airlocked. So, I'm not sure if his desperation is a scum tell or if he'd just got a little too emotional over the band wagon.

However, I'm not joining the band wagon as it probably won't elicit any more information from him. In fact, it might actually help the true Cylons, as it takes the heat off of them.

Still, just in case Sun is Cylon, then I'm going to have to review this thread and see if I can find any attempts to defend Sun Tzu, however neutral or half-hearted they might be (so as to allay any suspicion).

Things might get more heated as the day draws to an end.

[beyelzu]

No, I'm not insulted and I'm not taking anything personally. I'm also not trying to offend anyone. I'm just asking people to think.

I must have missed the question marks. At this point, with your resignation we can only assume you are a scummy acting, overly defensive vanilla townie or a scum who dropped the ball and then got overly defensive.

[beyelzu]

The Sun Tzu bandwagon amuses me, but I can't say it came without reason, since all he's really done is yell at people for calling him a noob. He made a decent enough vote on Smilin but the ES vote came out of frakkin' nowhere.
I agree that this "people are invisible/visible - makes them scum/townies" is amusing talk (especially after seeing what happened in the last game: no wonder people go invisible - and it's freaking day-1). Reasoning that "you should have said it earlier if you go invisible" is crappy logic. It's day-1.

In fact, I think a scum could try pretend being pro-town by staying visible & watching "who is online" - and then blame others based on this reasoning.


I started the sun tzu bandwagon and it is not because he is invisible, it is because he felt it necessary to go invisible once he realized it was an option. Something either a special or a cylon would do. I think we can rule out his being a special based on his oh well go ahead and lynch me rhetoric.


Interestingly though, Tick, that post of Crumb's also made me suspicious, but I wonder if he and Sun Tzu are both scum.

[wei yau]

I have to say that with each passing minute and each post by bey, I am becoming more and more convinced of Sun Tzu's guilt. Although, if we're wrong, then not only do I apologize for releasing the poor bastard into the cold embrace of space, but also for how shitty it feels to be accused when you are innocent.

Working on the assumption that he is guilty, some of the posts since the Sun Tzu bandwagon started are starting to look a little scummy. But, not enough of them. I don't see an active defense of him. I do see a lot of throwaway votes being tossed about and then removed. These votes don't mean anything because Sun already has so many votes piled on him. Hell, there might even be enough votes on him to allow the Cylons to not cast any votes at all.

The Cylons could easily be sitting back and letting us airlock Sun Tzu, knowing he's human.

Still, I might not be seeing things clearly enough. If Sun is guilty, then why don't we see more of an active Cylon defense of him? I would assume that losing a Cylon on Day One would actually hurt quite a bit, since odds are that first day airlockings (?) should result in a human getting tossed.

Given that, then wouldn't Cylons try some kind of defense? Or is the fear of getting caught sufficient to keep them quiet?

The truth is, no matter who we airlock, we're more likely to pick a human rather than a Cylon.

[cappuccino]

You make good points there, wei. I would think that the Cylons won't risk mounting a defense for Sun if he's a Cylon because if he's airlocked and we get confirmation that he's Cylon, we're going to take a hard look at previous posts and who defended him to ferry out any Cylons.

I still feel that Sun just got pissed off because people went after him as opposed to trying to cover up his Cyloness but I fully admit that his follow-up posts look guilty as hell.

I'm going back and look at anybody who posted about Sun, we may already had a defend post from a Cylon. They may have made a mistake of trying to protect their fellow scum early in Day 1 without thinking about long-term impact.

[wei yau]

Interestingly, capp, I felt that you were one of Sun's defenders, as you have done so again in this latest post. Which, by the way, doesn't really add anything to what I had posted, but it might be seen as an emphasized warning to Cylons to watch how they react to Sun Tzu's potential airlocking.

[Crumb]

bah I'm not convinced that Sun Tzu is cylon. His reaction to the invisible thing set off my alarms, but everyone going invisible is better for the game. I did not vote for him based on that. I don't think I voted for him at all, did I?

Nightson: Regarding the "Ah" really voting for me based on two characters? What I was trying to express was that I was pleased that ES brought it up and it reminded me of our time pressure. I am used to day 1s being longer and more relaxed.

Anyway, my suspect list at this point is:
beyelzu: Shows up and throws in a vote or a comment with little substance and then disappears.
mickthinks: Voting for sun tzu simply because he was the current bandwagon.

I don't have much reason to suspect anyone else. I don't believe sun tzu is scum, just not quite fitting in to the :ff: game style.

vote: mickthinks

[beyelzu]

Well, Crumbles, we all can't have posts loaded with content like you, sorry that I work 11 hours a day and sleep 4, I can try to cut back on the sleep so I am more available for you.
:kettle:
Want to bet whether or not I have more posts in this thread with content then you do?


:tmgrin:

[mickthinks]

wei yau 217: I have to say that with each passing minute and each post by bey, I am becoming more and more convinced of Sun Tzu's guilt.
LOL! Strange to say, bey's posts have precisely the opposite effect on me. It seems he has a tendency to play the intuitive hunter hitting on some apparently random choice of prey on day one. I wish he didn't 'cos I think it's scummy. This for instance:

bey 212: There is a word for this, I think it's........ wifom
... is a lame excuse for a FOS, I think.

[mickthinks]

Crumb 220: vote: mickthinks [for] Voting for sun tzu simply because he was the current bandwagon.
lol! You seem to be going to great lengths to portray the pressure on Sun as scummy. Can you explain how you are so sure of Sun's innocence at this early stage?

[Crumb]

I'm not. Only the scum are sure of anything but their own role, mickthinks.

[beyelzu]

wei yau 217: I have to say that with each passing minute and each post by bey, I am becoming more and more convinced of Sun Tzu's guilt.
LOL! Strange to say, bey's posts have precisely the opposite effect on me. It seems he has a tendency to play the intuitive hunter hitting on some apparently random choice of prey on day one. I wish he didn't 'cos I think it's scummy. This for instance:

bey 212: There is a word for this, I think it's........ wifom
... is a lame excuse for a FOS, I think.

You don't fos people you are voting for.

[mickthinks]

You don't fos people you are voting for.
:doh: My mistake! But a lame excuse is still a lame excuse even whether you're pointing or voting, I reckon.

[Megatron]

@ wei
What you just wrote, especially post 217, is basically a scummer's guide to WIFOM. In short, "Let's confuse the town as to motives of the scum" - this does nothing for town and is actually somewhat of a scum tell because it tends to confuse newbies.


mickthinks: Voting for sun tzu simply because he was the current bandwagon.

Yep, same thing I said.

vote: mickthinks

I'm off for a bit but I'm about 95% sure I'll be back before nightfall.

[cappuccino]

wei, I'm coming across as defending Sun instead of expressing my opinion? I don't think Sun's really Cylon because I remembered how flustered and pissed off I became in another game when people started coming after me for what I thought was lameass reason. It's more of a sympathy thing.

I'm considering all angles, including thinking about how Cylons would behave whether Sun's actually one or not. I see people going after him and creating a storm. I'm also thinking to myself; take a step back, is anybody using that shitstorm to maneuver themselves into favorable position? And I see mickthinks possibly doing that last night.

[mickthinks]

Zero Angel: Yep, same thing I said. vote: mickthinks
Someone else who want us to believe that putting pressure on Sun is obviously bad for the town. lol

[Joshua Adams]

unvote; vote: wei yau

Why? Because he seems too easily convinced that whoever is in the lead is genuinely scum. He seemed a lot more suspicious of Smilin back when there was a credible chance of him being airlocked. Now all of a sudden he's convinced Sun Tzu is scum. But he doesn't even have the balls to commit to voting for him: he just wants to stir up the suspicion without taking any of the blame for the lynch, me thinks.

[Megatron]

Zero Angel: Yep, same thing I said. vote: mickthinks
Someone else who want us to believe that putting pressure on Sun is obviously bad for the town. lol

Nope, but I certainly think jumping on a bandwagon "to see what happens" is never good for the town.

[JamesBannon]

At this particular juncture, having read the whole thread, Mick sets off my alarm bells more that Sun. You're pushing too hard, Mick & seem awfully sure of yourself. vote Mickthinks

[wei yau]

unvote; vote: wei yau

Why? Because he seems too easily convinced that whoever is in the lead is genuinely scum. He seemed a lot more suspicious of Smilin back when there was a credible chance of him being airlocked. Now all of a sudden he's convinced Sun Tzu is scum. But he doesn't even have the balls to commit to voting for him: he just wants to stir up the suspicion without taking any of the blame for the lynch, me thinks.

Yeah, even as I wrote in this thread, I knew that it could be interpreted as scummy. Still, it was a chance I'm willing to take in order to get some discussion going. Albeit, Day One's discussions usually don't suss out too much.

As for my voting history, yes I did vote for Smilin, but not because he was in the lead. First, with a timed game, I'm not convinced that early leads account for much. But, more importantly, when I cast my vote for Smilin, there was only one other vote on him. I'd hardly consider this to be a "credible chance of him being airlocked".

And as for Sun Tzu, with a timed game, my vote on him won't change much, as he was in the lead at the time.

At any rate, I'm not Cylon. Even as I wrote my posts, I realized that they could come across as suspicious looking.

But, if this allays suspicion, I'll vote: Sun Tzu.

He does look suspicious to me, I do feel sympathy for him, if he's innocent.

[wei yau]

@ wei
What you just wrote, especially post 217, is basically a scummer's guide to WIFOM. In short, "Let's confuse the town as to motives of the scum" - this does nothing for town and is actually somewhat of a scum tell because it tends to confuse newbies.


Yeah, I can see how you'd think that. But, I am human.

My goal was not to confuse, but to say that if we are so certain of Sun Tzu's scumminess, then let's explore how the Cylons would react to his airlocking.

That's one of the more interesting aspects of this game, how does one discussion suspicions and theories, without being accused of being scum.

I tried it here, and it didn't work. I assure you I am human.

[wei yau]

wei, I'm coming across as defending Sun instead of expressing my opinion? I don't think Sun's really Cylon because I remembered how flustered and pissed off I became in another game when people started coming after me for what I thought was lameass reason. It's more of a sympathy thing.

Believe me, I know what you mean. It's one of the reasons why I've stayed away from mafia games for so long.

I tend to get emotionally involved and it was messing with my head.

I'm trying to keep a more arm's length distance this time around.

[Ensign Steve]

Ensign Steve seems pretty scummy to me.
How so?
:therapy:

Also: Oh My God You Suck!

But 4 votes in a 15 player game isn't much of a threat...
4 votes in a 15 person game is a threat if that's the most votes anyone has on them. It doesn't take a majority to lynch.

I get the impression that most of the Sun-wagon was based on the invisibility fiasco...
I can only speak for my own vote, but I'm on that wagon not based upon his going invisible, but rather based upon his reaction to being called out on it by bey and Smilin.

:bandwagon:

[JamesBannon]

Boy, from what I've seen, FF games are tame in comparison to the shit that flies around in RnR games. :D

I still think mick is pushing too hard to lynch Sun.

[Joshua Adams]

Alright wei. I knew you were only the second person to vote for him, but you did make a couple of posts solidifying your suspicions of him, all the while he was complaining (if that's the right word) about how he'd be lynched. These were intermingled with other people voting for him, but on careful review, I think the chronology is on your side, for the most part.

I have to reconstruct the tally at any given time in the past, so it's hard to see who was in the lead when. But it seems that Sun Tzu had pretty much caught up with him and the tide was already turning by that time, and your posts usually came before the other votes.

At the time it happened, I felt you were "too sure" of Smilin's guilt at the time. In previous games I recall scum doing that on day one, so it had you in my sights. I did find your fingering of Sun, as well as anyone coming to his "defense", to be classic sowing of confusion behavior, but for now I'm satisified that it's not a pervasive pattern.




Of course, I'm just a naturally meek person and tend to back down very easily, so I might be letting you off the hook too quickly. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

[Ensign Steve]

FRAK YOU FRAKIN FRAKER!

edit: :giggles: sorry, that was for James

[cappuccino]

The first round of FF mafia games totally burned me out too. I'm trying to be a hard-nosed player now and not let things mess with my head too much either.

People were focusing too much on Sun just because he had the most votes and a few heated posts and missing out what others were doing in the shadows.

Based on mickthinks going on the bandwagon the way he did and then dropping one-line quips when people pressed him for answers, I'm voting for him.

vote mickthinks

Ensign Steve, anybody who curses that much got be a frakking Cylon :nyahnyah:

[Adam]

Guys, I had a really shitty night and morning. I haven't slept yet, and as soon as I get a call I'm waiting on, I'm taking a nap, so nightfall may be a bit delayed. If someone wanted to do a vote tally, I would give you enough http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/images/buttons/post_thanks.gif to keep ITSOZ merrily griping about it for decades. Hell, if you have an account at RnR, I'll rep you too.

[Joshua Adams]

Sun Tzu: 6 - beyelzu, brikenjon, Ensign Steve, mickthinks, Smilin, wei yau
mickthinks: 4 - cappuccino, Crumb, James Bannon, Zero Angel
Crumb: 1 - The Tick
Ensign Steve: 1 - Sun Tzu
wei yau: 1 - Joshua Adams

not voting: fragment, Nightson

[Joshua Adams]

beyelzu.........................Joshua Adams(9), Sun Tzu(18)
brikenjon.......................Crumb(23), Smilin(26), Sun Tzu(34)
cappuccino......................Zero Angel(30), unvote(37), mickthinks(44)
Crumb...........................Smilin(4), JamesBannon(11), brikenjon(13), mickthinks(24), Nightson(27), unvote(29), mickthinks(39)
Ensign Steve....................Sun Tzu(22)
fragment........................Ensign Steve(2), Nightson(21), unvote(36)
JamesBannon.....................Nightson(7), unvote(35), mickthinks(42)
Joshua Adams....................Nightson(3), wei yau(41)
mickthinks......................Crumb(1), Sun Tzu(31)
Nightson........................JamesBannon(8), unvote(28)
Smilin..........................JamesBannon(12), Sun Tzu(14), unvote(16), brikenjon(19), Sun Tzu(20)
Sun Tzu.........................Smilin(15), Ensign Steve(25)
The Tick........................cappuccino(5), Smilin(17), Crumb(33)
wei yau.........................Smilin(10), unvote(38), Sun Tzu(43)
Zero Angel......................Sun Tzu(6), unvote(32), mickthinks(40)

[JamesBannon]

FRAK YOU FRAKIN FRAKER!

edit: :giggles: sorry, that was for James

:sorry: But I still believe you're not a priority target in Dark Sun. Will you accept my apologies? :please:

[Ensign Steve]

No worries, my friend. :thankee:

[Sun Tzu]

I've changed my mind about Smilin. You guys say this is how he is every game, but if so his metagame is not pro-town.

unvote
vote Smilin

It's not a big deal if I get lynched. A townie usually gets lynched on day one. I think the info in the thread now is a fair price for my death.

The thing about ES that got my spider-sense going was her defense of Smilin. Twice she said, "hey everyone, this is how Smilin always acts". This could be scum defending scum, but it could also be scum defending town to look good.

However, I think it's more likely that Smilin is scum. If Smilin and I were both colonials, the scum would be more laid back instead of pushing my bandwagon.

Suspects:
Smilin
Ensign Steve
mickthinks
wei yau

I don't know what to make of beyelzu. He may just have a scummy play-style.

[Crumb]

If Smilin and I were both colonials, the scum would be more laid back instead of pushing my bandwagon.
How do you know the scum are pushing your bandwagon?

[mickthinks]

Sun, hello stranger! You've been away for nearly 18 hours, and the same yesterday. Is that going to be the pattern for the rest of the game, because in my view it would help town if you could pop by more often and shorten those big gaps.

[beyelzu]

I've changed my mind about Smilin. You guys say this is how he is every game, but if so his metagame is not pro-town.

unvote
vote Smilin

It's not a big deal if I get lynched. A townie usually gets lynched on day one. I think the info in the thread now is a fair price for my death.

The thing about ES that got my spider-sense going was her defense of Smilin. Twice she said, "hey everyone, this is how Smilin always acts". This could be scum defending scum, but it could also be scum defending town to look good.

However, I think it's more likely that Smilin is scum. If Smilin and I were both colonials, the scum would be more laid back instead of pushing my bandwagon.

Suspects:
Smilin
Ensign Steve
mickthinks
wei yau

I don't know what to make of beyelzu. He may just have a scummy play-style.

People tell me that I do indeed have a scum like play style.

Anyway, I am leaning towards laying off of this particular bandwagon.

unvote, vote crumbles

for wishy washing voting and what I think is a more telling post then sun tzu's anger.

[Joshua Adams]

Well bey, in case you're just going by my records to conclude he's wishy washy, I'd caution you that most of those were "poke the quiet people" votes.