Anyone dealt with panic disorders?

[Roland98]

'Cause I think I might have a really mild one that drives me crazy.

I've been doing quite a bit of reading on them today, because I had another freaking panic attack this morning. I know there are people who have this extremely bad, and mine (if it is indeed some kind of disorder) is nowhere near that--it's an aggravation, at most, but one that I hate and that makes me feel stupid.

A lot of you know I'm a scientist. I'm not squeamish in the least. I've killed and necropsied way too many mice for any kind of blood or gore to bother me. I used to volunteer in the ER during college, and have watched all kinds of medical procedures up close and personal. I taught a vertebrate zoology course where a major emphasis was comparative anatomy--lots of dissections. None of these are a problem for me.

Additionally, I have a fairly high pain tolerance. I am not a wimp. I didn't have any drugs for the birth of my kids--I can deal with pain.

And yet, this morning I met with some folks to learn how to draw blood. This would be very helpful to me since I do serological surveillance for some diseases as part of my research--and here in this state, you don't have to be licensed or anything to do blood draws. So, I get there this morning and the woman who was teaching us takes my arm and demonstrates how to tie the tourniquet correctly. Not more than a few seconds after it's on (just the freaking tourniquet!--she wasn't even going to draw blood), I'm dizzy and breaking out in a cold sweat. Embarrassed and pissed, I have to go outside and lie down until I feel better.

This happens to me almost every time I get bloodwork done. Normally I'm okay if I try to concentrate on something else, but even so, I have to lie down for awhile afterward before driving or anything, as I still get light-headed and turn white as a sheet. When donating blood, I have to squeeze so it's done as quick as possible, and still generally need a cold washcloth for my forehead so I can finish (and then still need to lie down for awhile afterward). I first remember this happening in 4th grade--I think when I got a penicillin shot or something. I went out to the waiting room and passed out; I remember the nurse waking me up with smelling salts. So it's been like this for almost 20 years, and nothing I do really helps it.

So--any advice? I don't even know who to discuss this with--a regular doctor? Therapist? Both? Shaddup and quit whining because it's not a big deal? :)

[LadyShea]

Have you noticed they are in any way cyclical? Our hormones change so much as we age, and it could be hormonally triggered.

Oh wait, is it ONLY related to blood draw? That's not a panic disorder, that's a phobia sweets.

[RevDahlia]

I really, really feel your pain, Roland.

I have been diagnosed with panic disorder, which is pretty much under control now. Panic attacks are horrible, made more horrible by the fact that they're kind of embarrassing. They're physically debilitating, but it makes me feel dumb to say "I'm lying here in the dark because I have this panic problem, and I'm trying not to lose it completely so please go away," much more so than if I could blame it on something "real" and "not all in my head" like, say, a migraine.

I was going to include lots of boring personal anecdotes here, but that isn't helpful, so here's what I've learned about anxiety management.

1. See a physician. Panic attacks make for weird, terrifying physical symptoms, and it helped me immensely to talk to a doctor who could explain what was going on. Also, an MD will be able to prescribe you tranquilizers, which leads me to point #2.

2. The best thing you can do here is break the cycle. If you're worried about having a panic attack and fretting about the last panic attack you had, you'll probably have another one in short order. The little fuckers come in flocks. I tried everything, but what really broke the anxiety's back for me was Xanax in microscopic doses. My doctor said to take three pills a day, as needed; I took a quarter of one pill whenever I started feeling hinky, and that did the trick. It's a great placebo to just have access to something that will make you feel better, even if you don't use it. I also had luck with Tension Tamer tea.

3. Learn how to breathe slowly. Yoga helps a lot. Panic attacks are aggravated by the inevitable hyperventilation, and slow breathing will usually head them off at the pass. If all else fails, breathe into a paper bag. This sounds lame but works like magic.

4. Get some support. If you've had this problem for 20 years, you might do well to find a support group; this helped me a lot. Also, things like yoga and acupuncture can work wonders.

5. Avoid stimulants! Especially caffeine! Coffee is a legendary anxiety trigger. If you can do without it, stop drinking it. Drinking alcohol is a pretty bad idea also.

That's all I got for now... hang in there, and good luck.

Oh wait, is it ONLY related to blood draw? That's not a panic disorder, that's a phobia sweets.
Blimey. Well, if this is the case maybe Roland should try being hypnotized?

[godfry n. glad]

Have you noticed they are in any way cyclical? Our hormones change so much as we age, and it could be hormonally triggered.

Oh wait, is it ONLY related to blood draw? That's not a panic disorder, that's a phobia sweets.

A hypodermic needle phobia, perhaps?

I've got it. I react exactly as described. I can avoid it if I don't watch the injection/draw at all. Evidently it's fairly common, because my doctor's lab has an entire board of cartoons (lots of Larson) on the opposite side of the chair from where the draws are done.

[LadyShea]

Blood draw phobias appear to be quite common in my limited search, of course we need to hear back from Roland if this is the only cause of her panic attacks.

[HelenM]

So--any advice? I don't even know who to discuss this with--a regular doctor? Therapist? Both? Shaddup and quit whining because it's not a big deal? :)

Definitely not the last option - because it is a big deal to you - it's embarrassing and inconvenient if it interferes with you doing something that would be useful in your work.

You might have to talk to a few professionals to find those who can address your specific needs. I would say, start with your doctor, because there may be anxiety medications that could help; if he doesn't know much about psychiatric meds he'll refer you to a psychiatrist. The doctor or psychiatrist can refer you to a therapist who can work on non-medication approaches to lessening anxiety with you.

I think it would be helpful for you to read about treatments for anxiety so you can be as involved as possible in seeking out the right treatment for you. If you know what's out there, you can keep looking if a professional doesn't offer it and you can talk to the professionals specifically about "Do you think this would help me? Why or why not?"

One other reason for addressing it is that if you don't, it may get worse and worse and encroach more and more on your life. Anxiety has a way of doing that, because you start to get secondary anxiety when you know you might have to face a primary source of anxiety soon...and so on.

Keep us posted on what you decide to do and how it goes.

Helen

[viscousmemories]

I agree with the others that it probably isn't panic disorder if the anxiety is limited to a single event with predictable results. Whatever it is I can't give any better advice than has already been given, though. Good luck, Roland. :)

[The Lone Ranger]

I'm with the group on this one: it doesn't sound like panic disorder, just a squeamishness/phobia regarding needles. It's quite common, actually.

Even big, tough guys who can take all sorts of abuse can be simply terrified of needles. I taught a physiology lab once that involved doing surgeries on live rabbits. One of the people taking the class was on the school's football team -- a big, gruff guy who I'm sure would shrug off pain without even noticing that would leave most people incapacitated.

So, the day comes when I'm to demonstrate how to do the surgery. The rabbit was ready, and I pulled out a syringe that I'd previously filled with anesthetic. As I popped the cap off the syringe, I heard a loud *thump* behind me. I turned to see the football player lying on the floor, white as a sheet and completely unconscious.



Some people can give blood or whatever, so long as they can't see the needle go in. I'm just the opposite. By golly, if somebody's going to stick a needle in me, I'm going to supervise!

Cheers,

Michael

[Dingfod]

I never had a problem with needles. I've had blood drawn. I've given blood a number of times. I even stuck other people for blood tests when they couldn't do it themselves. I've even given my mother insulin shots. On me, there has almost always been trouble finding my blood vessels in my arms. One time, when, after poking and probing a dozen times, they still couldn't find one in my arm, they decided to go into the back of my hand, stuck me and started probing around with the needle around trying to stick the vein. I started feeling nauseous, sweating and breathing hard. The nurse asked me if I thought I was going to faint. I told her I didn't think so but I was feeling a bit nauseous. They brought me a pan to vomit in if necessary and made me lie down. That one incident about six or seven years ago gave me a phobia so that I have to look the other way when I'm stuck with a needle.

A mild anxiety attack would be having the same sort of symptoms as I was having just thinking about having it done. A severe anxiety attack would have you paralyzed with fear, feeling like you are unable to breathe, feeling like you're going to faint, and feeling pressure in the chest just anticipating getting poked with a needle or whatever it is that makes you anxious. In any event, it is entirely mental.

[Godless Dave]

I just wanted to point out that general squeamishness isn't really the factor here. Seeing the blood and gore of another person or animal is qualitatively different from seeing a needle going into you and drawing your blood.

I've never had a problem with needles going into my skin (I got weekly allergy shots for years when I was very young), but a needle stuck deep in my vein gives me the willies. :hide:

[xorbie]

I have a problem with needles too... mostly when they are giving me shots as drawing blood isn't quite as bad. But I tend to tense up and get very light headed (I've even fainted once). Not sure if this is the same thing you have.

[HelenM]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone else here about what it is and how common it is. My point is that - as best I know - most forms of anxiety which interferes with our life (whether specific or not) can be worked on with good results and so professional help may be worth pursuing if it is a significant enough interference.

Helen

[Godless Dave]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone else here about what it is and how common it is. My point is that - as best I know - most forms of anxiety which interferes with our life (whether specific or not) can be worked on with good results and so professional help may be worth pursuing if it is a significant enough interference.

I don't think anyone here disputes that, and I hope my post did not give the impression that Roland's phobia is trivial or should not be addressed.

[Shaguar]

Used to get them, whoever gave the paper bag tip is right, the best short term solution and it really doe swork like magic, what it actually does is rebalance your co2

[lady cop]

i had one once, when my mother was dying. it mimics a heart attack, at least when it happened to me...i went to the ER and had an EKG because i thought i was going to die. what i discovered later was that it was, at least for me, the loss of any control of what was happening.i could not bear it.

[livius drusus]

I found a site on needle phobia (http://home.columbus.rr.com/klamb/pages/needlephobia.htm#types) which is a little, erm, hopped up, but refers to a study (http://home.columbus.rr.com/klamb/hamilton-abstract.htm) that might be of use to you, Roland. I can't find the full study online, I'm afraid. Perhaps you can dig it up with your fancy microbiologist resources?

The etiology of needle phobia lies in an inherited vasovagal reflex of shock, triggered by needle puncture. Those who inherit this reflex often learn to fear needles through successive needle exposure. needle phobia is therefore both inherited and learned. In a family practice, needle phobia can be managed by reassurance and education, avoidance of needles, postural and muscle tension techniques, benzodiazepines, nitrous oxide gas, and topical anesthesia applied by iontophoresis.

[Roland98]

I have to run, but this is why I don't think it's just a phobia. I don't care about needles. I've used them all the time in my research; I've done blood draws straight from animal's hearts or tails. I can watch other people get blood drawn, no problemo. Hell, I was able to try it on my husband last night, again, no problem (for me anyway, heh--I didn't get any blood and he got a little tired of being stuck). So at least I think that will be okay--once I get the technique down, I think I'll be able to draw others.

liv, this mostly describes me:

Vaso-Vagal
Fainting, sweating, nausea, initially high blood pressure and heart rate, followed by a sudden precipitous plunge in blood pressure

but it's not at all due to the sight or thought of needles and certainly not blood. I don't really know why it is, which is one of the things that really bugs me. And this is why I didn't describe it as a phobia--I'm not scared of anything that I can pick out. Heck, when my mom was being treated with steroids when I was a kid I'd help give her shots. Nothing I've done with needles on anyone or anything else has ever bothered me.

The etiology of needle phobia lies in an inherited vasovagal reflex of shock, triggered by needle puncture. Those who inherit this reflex often learn to fear needles through successive needle exposure. needle phobia is therefore both inherited and learned.

And that doesn't really describe me either. Yes, I get classic shock reaction, but it's not at all triggered by needle puncture. Like I said yesterday, I knew she wasn't even going to draw me, but yet merely the presence of the tourniquet started the reaction. And I've had shots in my mouth before for dental procedures, and it doesn't bother me a bit. So I'm not even sure what exactly causes me to have this reaction. Which is another reason it ticks me off. ;)

Okay, back later--thanks for everyone's responses and I'll get to them in a bit!

[lisarea]

I wouldn't take those descriptions as gospel, of course, but they might be a good starting point in looking for ways to deal with it.

The Little Muffin has a needle phobia, brought on after traumatic exposure (he was attacked by a dog and had to have a million shots right into the wounds on his face in the ER), which would mean it's the associative type for him, although he also gets clammy and has panic-like symptoms, too, which would fall into the vaso-vagal type.

He can watch other people getting shots and such, but if he knows he's getting one, he'll freak out pretty much starting the minute he finds out, and the panic just escalates. He's a tough guy, though, much like it seems you are, so he just cowboys up when needles are unavoidable.

I think, though, that he was able to handle a novacain injection relatively well when they gave him laughing gas first. (I'd ask him, but he's out of town doing a job probably for a couple of days.) So at least in his case, I think that "I don't care" medicine could resolve the problem. YMMV, but it does seem like the simplest solution, and it's probably relatively harmless unless you really have to get a lot of shots.

[Roland98]

<good stuff>

Luckily mine aren't in any way that severe, and I do know the symptoms of mine--hell, I could draw you the whole cascade of chemical reactions if asked--but a few things you said apply to me:

If you're worried about having a panic attack and fretting about the last panic attack you had, you'll probably have another one in short order.

I wonder if that's why I had one yesterday. I know I get these when dealing with blood draws--I always warn the nurses at the Red Cross before they draw me, and like I mentioned, I'm armed with a cold washcloth and I always give lying down because if I'm sitting, I'll pass out. So this was kind of in the back of my mind, though again, it bugs me that it happened because I knew she wasn't even going to draw me! Aargh. But if my mind was preparing for that anyway...

Blimey. Well, if this is the case maybe Roland should try being hypnotized?

I looked into that as well but couldn't find any consensus on whether it's crap or not.

I've got it. I react exactly as described. I can avoid it if I don't watch the injection/draw at all. Evidently it's fairly common, because my doctor's lab has an entire board of cartoons (lots of Larson) on the opposite side of the chair from where the draws are done.

Yeah, I generally don't look, but it still doesn't help.

You might have to talk to a few professionals to find those who can address your specific needs. I would say, start with your doctor, because there may be anxiety medications that could help; if he doesn't know much about psychiatric meds he'll refer you to a psychiatrist. The doctor or psychiatrist can refer you to a therapist who can work on non-medication approaches to lessening anxiety with you.

I think it would be helpful for you to read about treatments for anxiety so you can be as involved as possible in seeking out the right treatment for you. If you know what's out there, you can keep looking if a professional doesn't offer it and you can talk to the professionals specifically about "Do you think this would help me? Why or why not?"

One other reason for addressing it is that if you don't, it may get worse and worse and encroach more and more on your life. Anxiety has a way of doing that, because you start to get secondary anxiety when you know you might have to face a primary source of anxiety soon...and so on.

Keep us posted on what you decide to do and how it goes.

Thanks Helen! I have investigated some treatments, and I really don't know where I fit in. I mean, it's not debilitating, and it's not common. I know when it's going to happen, and I mostly deal with it by just doing what I can to not pass out and warning the phlebotomist in advance. I've tried the things they typically suggest--not thinking about it, not looking, breathing exercises...doesn't help. It hasn't gotten worse yet, despite routine blood donation and a lot of extra bloodwork during my pregnancies, but I guess it theoretically could.

So, the day comes when I'm to demonstrate how to do the surgery. The rabbit was ready, and I pulled out a syringe that I'd previously filled with anesthetic. As I popped the cap off the syringe, I heard a loud *thump* behind me. I turned to see the football player lying on the floor, white as a sheet and completely unconscious.

Heh. Yeah, I've never gone that quick (and have really only *passed out* that one time, though I have to lie down every time). What really troubles me is that I don't know what triggers it. Reading through what liv linked on fear of needles, none of that (except the symptoms of shock) really fits me.

...I started feeling nauseous, sweating and breathing hard. The nurse asked me if I thought I was going to faint. I told her I didn't think so but I was feeling a bit nauseous. They brought me a pan to vomit in if necessary and made me lie down. That one incident about six or seven years ago gave me a phobia so that I have to look the other way when I'm stuck with a needle.

A mild anxiety attack would be having the same sort of symptoms as I was having just thinking about having it done.

And I've never really experienced that. I can sit here thinking about it and it doesn't bother me. But again, what freaks me out is that yesterday, that's all it was--just thinking about it, basically--sitting there with the tourniquet.

A severe anxiety attack would have you paralyzed with fear, feeling like you are unable to breathe, feeling like you're going to faint, and feeling pressure in the chest just anticipating getting poked with a needle or whatever it is that makes you anxious.

And that's what it was yesterday, except I never get "paralyzed with fear." I get the physical symptoms, but all I'm thinking in my head is "god, this is so stupid! Freaking stop it!"

In any event, it is entirely mental.

Yep. And damn annoying.

I just wanted to point out that general squeamishness isn't really the factor here. Seeing the blood and gore of another person or animal is qualitatively different from seeing a needle going into you and drawing your blood.

Yep. But I don't get why this particular thing does this to me. I never get like this when I just get a cut or an injury. Hell, a few years back I broke a glass in the sink washing dishes and sliced my hand up pretty good. That kind of thing doesn't cause this kind of reaction at all.

I have a problem with needles too... mostly when they are giving me shots as drawing blood isn't quite as bad. But I tend to tense up and get very light headed (I've even fainted once). Not sure if this is the same thing you have.

Yep. Mostly for me it's drawing blood though, since I can't even recall the last time I got a shot. (Actually, come to think of it, I think I got a tetanus shot when I broke that glass, since I was due for a booster--and I don't recall getting dizzy over that).

Used to get them, whoever gave the paper bag tip is right, the best short term solution and it really doe swork like magic, what it actually does is rebalance your co2

Tried that--doesn't help me. For me, the best thing to do is lie down and have something cold to wipe the sweat off--which is why I ask for a cold washcloth when donating blood. Yesterday I went outside and laid down on the cement sidewalk.

i had one once, when my mother was dying. it mimics a heart attack, at least when it happened to me...i went to the ER and had an EKG because i thought i was going to die. what i discovered later was that it was, at least for me, the loss of any control of what was happening.i could not bear it.

My heart rate speeds up a lot (tries to compensate for the loss in blood pressure) but I've never really had any pain there. Mostly it's nausea, sweating, shortness of breath, and dizziness.

[Roland98]

Oh, and

What confuses me, was why I started to black out. I didn't feel afraid, but actually rather comfortable. I was watching the blood go out of my arm and thought, "That's my life's blood, cool." Then the lights started to dim and everything took on a yellowish brown hue. It was quite pleasant, until they stuck ammonia under my nose and then I felt really sick. That passed after fifteen minutes or so and then I was fine.

Yep, that's exactly how it is. There's no fear involved--just the reaction.

Has anyone else had this happen? Is it normal? (Probably not the 'life's blood' thing, which was pretty morbid, but normal for me.) I suppose what bothers me is that it felt like a personal failure.

Yep--exactly. And that's why it annoys me as well.

[LadyShea]

The whole sucky thing about phobias is that they are not rational so you can't really think your way out of them. You aren't consciously afraid, but for some reason your body goes into flight or fight response inappropriately. Though the umbrella term is needle phobia, I read several accounts of people who only react to blood draws, just like you.

I did hypnosis to help me learn to relax for my IVF procedures as I am tense all the damn time, it was awesome. Since it's your subconscious brain that's causing the wacky reaction, and your brain which chooses to "go under" during hypnosis, it might be worth a shot. Just try to find a hypnotherapist that knows it's not mystical or magical.

[HelenM]

Thanks Helen! I have investigated some treatments, and I really don't know where I fit in. I mean, it's not debilitating, and it's not common. I know when it's going to happen, and I mostly deal with it by just doing what I can to not pass out and warning the phlebotomist in advance. I've tried the things they typically suggest--not thinking about it, not looking, breathing exercises...doesn't help.

Perhaps some kind of systematic desensitization could help; have you read anything about that? I was thinking more along those lines.

It hasn't gotten worse yet, despite routine blood donation and a lot of extra bloodwork during my pregnancies, but I guess it theoretically could.

But in a small way, I would say yesterday was worse in that you had a reaction to the tourniquet, even though blood was not going to be drawn. It shows you're reacting to what is associated with blood drawing as well as the drawing itself.

However, I didn't mean to be unnecessarily alarmist in saying it could get worse. I would recommend reading about desensitization and seeing whether it seems like it could be applied to help you react less strongly to blood drawing.

Helen

[HelenM]

Roland, you could try asking your question on the Panic Center Online Support Group (http://www.paniccenter.net/support/index.cfm). It's moderated by health care professionals and no doubt populated by people who have first-hand experience with anxiety issues and treatment for them. Perhaps they could give you some helpful tips and suggestions, even if your own anxiety problem is not as severe as theirs.

(I haven't ever posted there, but it looks good.)

Helen

[Beth]

Roland, I have no problem when the needle goes in or blood comes out, but I panic and get hysterical if they leave the tourniquet on me for too long, I begin to panic, in fact, from the second I see it in the nurse's hand. When I give blood, I instruct them about this and they only leave it on me long enough to get a vein to pop and insert the needle otherwise, I have to practice the breathing techniques I used in childbirth. I also have a very high pain tolerance and pain has nothing to do with my reaction. Once in my first pregnancy, I started screaming because the nurse left it on me for five minutes while she walked away to do stuff. My arm was turning blue and pain was shooting through it. I was literally screaming hysterically. Rare for me back then because I was so meek and mild and I rarely ever said anything adverse to anyone, even if I was in pain. Since then, my body reacts react in a panicked way.

I also have panic and anxiety attacks that are triggered by various things.

[Dingfod]

All you need is a slap in the face, little lady.[/John Wayne]





Hey, it always worked in the movies, a slap to the face always snapped any hysterical woman or man right out of it.

[Beth]

Heh, if I got slapped in the face at that moment, I'm liable to jump the person and try my derndest to beat the stew out of them. Best to be firm and say "Calm down! I understand, but calm down!" and try to make direct eye contact.

[godfry n. glad]

Take note, warn: Never slap anybody around after having stew.

godfry

This is only my opinion.

[Gurdur]

This all sounds far more like a classical conditioned reflex rather than what's normally described as a panic attack.
If that's so, then it may be worth trying to switch the trigger to something else, if that's possible.
At the moment, the operant trigger (stimulus) is being injected (or having blood drawn);
the reaction is a vasovagal fainting/near-fainting reflex.


Therefore:
what might be tried as is worth a try is organizing another trigger, one with a very distinctive smell (the reason for this is below).
And then running through a combined desensitization program (i.e all the things you do not to faint, plus autogenous relaxation training, etc.), then while being injected/phlebotomized (sp?) at the same time holding a distinctive and consistant source of odour at each and every time, doing this quite a few times over a period of time to build up the conditioning.

Make sure it is not an odour you would ever meet in real life (*); in one trial program (for patients on chemotherapy and radiotherapy), we used a drink made from a mixture of garlic, blackcurrents etc.; it was palatable but very distinctive, and the program worked well; all patients who actually did develop conditioned reflexs (e.g. uncontrollable vomiting etc.) did so in reaction to the drink, not to the sight of a doctor's white coat, the sight of a needle or whatever
(to explain, that is a recurrent problem among chemotherapy / radiotherapy patients; they sometimes develop uncontrollable conditioned reflexs to the sight of a needle or white coat, which can be really bad for life, if you vomit uncontrollably every time you see a doctor's white coat, for example. Thus switching the trigger to somethning else not usually occuring in life is a very good thing for the patients, since it stops them developing such reactions to just needles or coats).

The reason why it should be an odour (as in a smell or drink) is that if working with operant conditioning, then appealing to the archecortex (sp ?) i.e. smell/taste is a really good idea; the archecortex is primitive and dumb, but it hooks straight into much of the rest of the brain's emotional+ circuitry, and has a great deal of power over the rest of the brain's emotional+ circuitry and immediate reactions; conditoned reflexs most often work far better with olfactory cues rather than say visual cues for that reason.
___________

(*) Indonesian jackfruit work well for that too.
Mind you, it means you should never tour rural Indonesia or Malaysia afterwards.

[lisarea]

Hey, it always worked in the movies, a slap to the face always snapped any hysterical woman or man right out of it.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to call bullshit on you, Warren.

In The Maniac, when Phyllis Diller but not THAT Phyllis Diller, maybe her mom, but anyway, when that other Phyllis Diller brought her husband to the vaudeville guy who was dressed up as the scientist he'd murdered, and the guy was all bugging out because he thought he was the orangutan from Murders in the Rue Morgue, slapping DID NOT HELP. Which is why the fake scientist went to reach for the needle with the sedative in it, which he accidentally mixed up with the needle with the superadrenaline in it instead, causing the guy to become EVEN MORE like the orangutan from Murders in the Rue Morgue and kidnap that naked lady and carry her all around the place like that.

I guess you probably just forgot about THAT.

[Dingfod]

I think you made that up. I've never even heard of such an absurd thing.

[lisarea]

I think you made that up. I've never even heard of such an absurd thing.

You're right. I misspoke. It's called just Maniac, (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0025465/) not THE Maniac like I said.

(Oh. Also. I went and looked it up: That Phyllis Diller is not the other Phyllis Diller's mother. She is just some coincidental Phyllis Diller, which is TOTALLY my new band name: Coincidental Phyllis Diller. So don't be stealing.)

EDIT FLASH! FLASH EDIT!

(Oh. And OH. MY. FUCKING. GOD. I was totally going to send you to this page (http://www.missinglink.free-online.co.uk/maniac.htm) for a more detailed plot description, but FOR ONE THING, the syringe contained superadrenaline, not WATER like that dumb page says, and FOR ANOTHER, I am pretty fucking sure the movie the interspersed devilley scenes are from Haxan: Witchcraft Through the Ages, and not Dante's Inferno. FOOLS! FOOLS!)

I feel sort of bad about screwing around in the unrelated thread, but I am enraged. Just enraged. I feel almost like I'm that orangutan from Murders in the Rue Morgue or something!

[Roland98]

Thanks Gurdur and Helen! I'll check out that site and I'm printing out your suggestion, Gurdur. I'll keep the jackfruit in mind. ;)


Random Phyllis Diller trivia (the real Phyllis Diller, not Coincidental Phillys Diller): she's the most famous alum of my mom's college alma mater. Probably the only reason I know who she is.