The Arthurian Legend

[Barefoot Bree]

I'm a sucker for a King Arthur story, be it book or movie, fact-based or pure fantasy. At one point when I had a large book collection, nearly an entire shelf - at least 20 books - was devoted to Arthur and the gang. Unfortunately, I had to ruthlessly trim my collection at one point, and only have a couple of them left.

Herewith please find some ramblings on my favorites:

Mary Stewart, The Crystal Cave, The Hollow Hills, The Last Enchantment, and The Wicked Day. My first and hands-down favorites. Some magic throughout, but not too heavy-handed (compared to some others). The first three are told first-person by Merlin, while the last, which is mostly after his death, is told third-person about Mordred's life. Because it's such a long read, the series has time to be rich in detail and characterization, and no-one comes off as two-dimensional. I especially love the way Merlin rebuilds Stonehenge to be the resting place of his father, Ambrosius, and sees his role as preserving his father's dream of a united Britain, strong against the barbarian invaders.

(Funny personal note: I first read Crystal Cave as a freshman in high school, when my natural atheism was already coming through. One of my older sister's boyfriends, a pretentious young xtian, told her that "whenever he felt his faith flagging, he just had to read that book and feel his faith reborn." Uh-huh. At 17, you're such a jaded cynic, but a fantasy book that has one single line in it alluding to all gods being one - and not mentioning that one by name - is enough to reinforce your faith? Even at 13, I could smell the horseshit as it hit the ground.)

Rosemary Sutcliffe, Sword at Sunset. This one has no magic at all, no Merlin, no Lancelot - it's a very plausible, historical novelization of the story of a man fighting to save his people. I found a terrific review - far better than I could do - here. (http://www.greenmanreview.com/book/book_sutcliff_swordatsunset.html) I've lost my copy of this one - it literally fell apart - but it holds a special place in my memory.

Andre Norton, Merlin's Mirror. Yes, Andre Norton, the fantasy novelist of the Witch World series (anybody else here remember that?) Probably the most fantastical treatment of the legend of any I've read - but what else would you expect?

Molly Cochran and Warren Murphy, The Forever King trilogy. I've only read the first entry, The Broken Sword, (the curse of living an hour's drive away from the nearest decent bookstore), but it's fascinating. It is set in the modern day, with Arthur reincarnated, and trying to reclaim himself. I'll really have to get and read the other two to make a full judgement, but it has a very promising beginning.

(Sad confession: I was never able to get very far through the classic, EB White's The Once and Future King. Having started with a believable, human Merlin by Mary Stewart, I found White's Merlin to be just too far out there for my taste at the time. Perhaps I'll try it again now that I have a little perspective.)

****

On to some particular favorite movies:

Merlin with Sam Neill. I love this movie - probably because many - but by no means most or all - of the story elements are the same as Mary Stewart told. (Not to mention the star... mmmmm.) Because I started with Stewart, I tend to focus on Merlin more than Arthur, but I don't like him too crazy. The one thing I hate about this movie is the way Queen Mab (Miranda Richardson) was filmed - that ultra-quick-cut drives me nuts. And her voice!!!! Ugh.

King Arthur with Clive Owen. I quite like this one - I think it's historically plausible - and therefore believable. Movies never have the time needed to really explore characters, but I think they did a good job drawing and differentiating here. Each of Arthur's band is a distinct character, but not a charicature. Owen's Arthur is a little flat at times, but maybe that's just his voice.

Camelot What can I say, I'm also a sucker for musicals. Having grown up listening to Mom's original broadway cast album with Richard Burton and Julie Andrews, I was actually disappointed when I saw the movie version with Richard Harris and Vanessa Redgrave. I dunno, they may have been just as good, but just didn't do the songs exactly as I was used to.

(Reading back over these movie reviews, I seem to have a thing about voices, too, don't I? Yes, I definitely do. Whether male or female, a sexy, smooth, musical voice - not flat or nasal - will win me over every time.)

*****

There we go, those are my picks. Anybody else have any good ones to add?

[LadyShea]

Mists of Avalon is my favorite book, Mary Stewart's series is second.

I just finished Rosalind Miles', Guinevere, Queen of the Summer Country. Interesting take on it, as every other version I have read has Guinevere as sort of weak and passive, and this one has her as part of a line of warrior queens and she has backbone.

Sadly I have felt every movie version just misses the mark.

[Barefoot Bree]

Mists of Avalon! I knew I forgot one. Sadly, it was one of the ones I had to trim, and now it's been so long that I've forgotten how it went. I'll have to get another copy....

The problem with movies is that, as I said above, they dont have TIME to really explore the flavors and nuances the way a book can. The very nature of the medium (and the commercial goal) means moviemakers must concentrate on the bare bones of the story, which means action. The interior story suffers - or perhaps I'm simply not sophisticated enough to "see" it onscreen?

ETA: Hmm, I think I put this in the wrong forum. Liv, could you move it to "Arts and Literature", please? My bad.

[Blake]

I loved Howard Pyle's The Story of King Arthur and his Knights. Apparently he wrote three following volumes which I'd never heard of before searching around just now, The Story of the Champions of the Round Table, The Story of Lancelot and His Companions, and The Story of the Grail and the Passing of Arthur. His illustrations are superb.

My favorite video rendering was a British miniseries shown on PBS in the early 1980s. I've been unable to find any more information on it, aside from a wistful thread on another forum by another person trying to find information on it. I've never seen a (serious) movie of the Arthur legend that I've enjoyed.

I think one can't leave out books that aren't specifically Arthurian, but rely on the legend as indispensable backstory, such as Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising series and Alan Garner's pair The Weirdstone of Brisingamen and The Moon of Gomrath. (I can't believe I missed Rosemary Sutcliffe's treatment; I've read all kinds of her other books. The Eagle of the Ninth--that was a great one.)

If you found The Once and Future King hard to penetrate, Barefoot Bree, how about starting with The Sword in the Stone? Although it's essentially the first part of the former book, it's a bit more accessible (I found, anyway, lo those many years ago). And then there's the incomplete finale, The Book of Merlyn.

I confess I'm disappointed with advancing age in Mary Stewart's series; I experienced the same thing as with The Lord of the Rings--they were both some of my favorites when young, but now I'm unable to get past my objections to their deficiencies of style to reread them.

In poking around, I found all kinds of fantastic pages devoted to cataloguing the many versions of Arthur; this one (http://www.triviumpublishing.com/articles/arthuronyourbookshelf.html) strikes me as particularly noteworthy.

[Ymir's blood]

Sir Thomas Mallory's Le Morte D'Arthur is a personal favorite of mine. I've read White and liked it, but the perspective was too modern, IMO.

Excalibur is an excellent movie, as is Monty Python and the Holy Grail, though for a totally different reason.

:knight: :bundance:

[livius drusus]

I've loved Arthurian legend ever since I first came across Sir Thomas Malory's canonical Le Morte d'Arthur (http://www.luminarium.org/medlit/malorybib.htm) in my parents classics of leatherbound literature one book a month for years that nobody ever reads collection.

Written in the 1400s, it is the collection of all the elements now considered the standard of the story: Uther's impregnation of Igraine under cover of Merlin's magic, Arthur's humble beginnings, the sword in the stone, Camelot, the Knights of the Round Table, Nimue and Merlin's entombment, the Grail quest, Lancelot and Guinevere, the last battle with Mordred and Arthur's death.

It also covers huge swaths of lesser known ground -- including my favorite, the Tristan and Isolde subplot -- all of it collected from the Welsh legends, and most importantly, the stories of the French troubador poets (hence the title and strong French influence everywhere in the book) and redesigned into a coherent plot.

It reads a little like the Bible in language and themes, but I don't find that offputting at all. Quite the opposite, in fact; it provides a great deal of context and thematic insight, both looking backwards to the original tellings of the legends and looking forward to the many, many writers who have been inspired by Malory's grand vision.

Now granted, I'm a Medieval literature nerd. I embrace that fully. I think the lyrical quality of the early Arthur stories is special, and they underscore the vibrancy and richness of medieval culture, something frequently lost in all stereotyping of the "Dark Ages".

Yvain (http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Yvain/part1.html), a masterpiece by Chretien de Troyes (http://www.princeton.edu/~lancelot/romance.html), an outstanding and unique 12th century court poet, is a prime example of that. It's full of love and intrigue and bravery and foolish, plot-advancing oversights at Arthur's court and out on the road. It's also a hard-hitting satire of gender and society.

Check out all of de Troyes' Arthurian Romances (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140445218/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/102-8611658-6521763?v=glance&s=books&st=*) to see the full picture of his brilliance. You won't even have to "watch the disney movie first for some background" as one of the blithering idiot Amazon reviewers suggested.

One more medieval suggestion and then I swear I'll stop. Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/sggk.htm) is not only a great tale of adventure and heroism, but is also a biting commentary on the prescriptive nature of chivalry vs. the truth of our humanity. If I may name drop, Tolkien edited the best-known Middle English version.

On the more modern scale, I'll add another vote for MZB's Mists of Avalon. I clung to that book with all the fervor of my adolscent proto-feminism and loved it dearly. I'm afraid to reread it just in case I'll now think it sucks.

As for movies, it's all about Monty Python and the Holy Grail for me. Not only is it hilarious in inimitable MP style, but it's also packed with Malory references. Everything from the phrasing to castles full of hot but dangerous women. Plus, it's a musical. Of sorts. :wink:

[Bella]

On the more modern scale, I'll add another vote for MZB's Mists of Avalon. I clung to that book with all the fervor of my adolscent proto-feminism and loved it dearly. I'm afraid to reread it just in case I'll now think it sucks.
Don't re-read it, liv - adulthood lends something to the experience :(.

[Dingfod]

I liked Walt Disney's The Sword in the Stone version.

[Godless Dave]

Mary Stewart's is my favorite. My second favorite hasn't been mentioned yet: Bernard Cornwall's "Warlord Chronicles":

The Winter King (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312156960/qid=1108384761/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1717336-4705648?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), Enemy of God (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312187149/ref=sid_dp_dp/002-1717336-4705648?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance), and Excalibur (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312206488/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/002-1717336-4705648?v=glance&s=books).

They are very "realistic", with no real magic (although the characters believe in it and act accordingly) and an attention to detail you'd expect from a historical novelist like Cornwell. He addresses the coming of Christianity to Britain but in no way sugarcoats pre-Christian British paganism - far from it! The novels are full of slaughter, rape, war, and injustice, which is probably historically accurate.

"The Sword in the Stone" is far superior to "The Once and Future King". "The Once and Future King" is a compilation of all four of White's Arthur novels with lots of the good stuff cut out; you're better off reading each one individually.

Blake, I remember that BBC series from the 80s, but only vaguely.

[Barefoot Bree]

Bernard Cornwall did a series???!!!??? I am so ON IT! I dearly love his Sharpe's Rifles series - it's one of the few that survived the book massacre.

One of the things I love about the Stewart books is the Legend Author's Note at the end of each one - a brief intro to how the "standard" legend goes, and her own research notes on various pieces. It gives those of us not of a scholarly bent a glimpse into the history of the legend, and the major players and writings thereof.

[Celsus]

Has anyone tried Tennyson's poems on the Arthurian legend? I think he single-handedly resurrected the myth for England. His Guinevere is pretty good, and I remember The Coming of King Arthur vaguely, but I know he wrote a lot more than that.

Joel

[Barefoot Bree]

Maybe we should do them down in the Reading Group! I'd certainly be interested.

[The Lone Ranger]

Oh I do love the Arthurian legends!

Tennyson's The Idylls of the King, T. H. White's The Once and Future King (by the way, if you haven't read it yet, you simply must read The Book of Merlyn). It'll break your heart. It's that good. Really. What are you waiting for? Go out and find a copy!

The best movie version I've seen is Excalibur, in my opinion, though I'm quite partial to Camelot. Though I kinda liked King Arthur (especially the little nods to the Arthurian Legend -- like him pulling Excalibur out of the ground as a boy), overall I wasn't too impressed.

Has anyone read a graphic novel version of the King Arthur legend called Camelot 3000? Though it's a bit too "comic-bookish" for my taste at times, I enjoyed it nonetheless.

I have to admit that I read The Mists of Avalon when I was about 20 or so and didn't particularly like it. Maybe I was too young to appreciate it at the time, but I've never gotten around to re-reading it to find out.


One of the things I've always found amusing/interesting about reading Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur is how the author fails to notice his own prejudices even as he mocks the characters'.

Malory lived in an age when the innate "superiority" of those of "noble" birth was taken for granted. So, he mocks those who fail to notice Arthur's "clearly noble" heritage until he proves it by pulling Excalibur from the stone. After Arthur demonstrates that he's the son of Uther, everyone falls all over themselves to say how they "knew all along he had to be of noble birth -- just look at him."

Somehow, I find it amusing that Malory mocks those who failed to recognize Arthur's (and later, Gareth's) "obvious nobility," all the while taking it as an article of faith that you can recognize "nobility of birth" at a glace.


As an aside, I find Gilbert and Sullivan's H.M.S. Pinafore amusing for the same reason, since G&S never appear to recognize the clear contradictions (obvious to everyone in the audience) in their work.

*Here there be spoilers -- read no further if ye don't want to know -- *

For instance, though the major "surprise" of the story is that Captain Corcoran and Ralph Rackstraw were switched at birth, and Corcoran is "really" Ralph and Ralph is "really" Corcoran -- that can't possibly be true, because Corcoran had a daughter who's Ralph's age. The dialog clearly establishes that Corcoran is older, and in every production I've seen, Corcoran is portrayed by a much older man or is made up to appear older.

Moreover, Corcoran is repeatedly portrayed as an exceptionally capable ship's captain who is (unusually) beloved by his crew. When it is discovered that Ralph is "really" Corcoran and vice versa, they switch places, and everyone (even Captain Corcoran, who is demoted to the position of a lowly sailor) seems just fine with this. To a modern audience, it appears that G&S are making a not-so-subtle point that one's worthiness is not determined by birth, yet they denied that this was the case, or so I've read.

(Of course, I suppose it's possible that they really did mean for audiences to come away with this impression, but put out "official denials," lest they stir up trouble.)

Cheers,

Michael

[Ymir's blood]

Has anyone read a graphic novel version of the King Arthur legend called Camelot 3000? Though it's a bit too "comic-bookish" for my taste at times, I enjoyed it nonetheless.
Many many cycles ago. I remember it as being pretty good, but nothing else.

[Godless Dave]

One of the things I love about the Stewart books is the Legend Author's Note at the end of each one - a brief intro to how the "standard" legend goes, and her own research notes on various pieces. It gives those of us not of a scholarly bent a glimpse into the history of the legend, and the major players and writings thereof.

In that case you'll love the historical notes at the end of Cornwell's Arthur novels.

[Celsus]

Since we've moved into historical Arthur territory... :D

The Historicity and Historicisation of Arthur (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~tomgreen/arthur.htm/)

An excellent, scholarly survey on the search for King Arthur.

An Archeological Quest for the 'real' King Arthur (http://www.uidaho.edu/student_orgs/arthurian_legend/england/arch/)

Not as well referenced, but much easier read, and has a nice overview on archaeological sites in Britain that have been arguably related to Arthur's time.

The recent Clive Owen movie, interestingly, pretends to have the "real" history of what happened, but its history leaves a lot to be desired. Based on the 2nd century pre-Christian Roman Lucius Artorius Castus, whose tomb has been found and carbon-dated to no later than 200 CE, it then proceeds to put him in the 5th century, by which time Britain was becoming Christianised, and by which point the Saxons had arrived. Real history my arse.

More on Lucius Artorius Castus (http://www.mun.ca/mst/heroicage/issues/1/halac.htm)

Joel

[livius drusus]

Sweeeet... :drool: Thanks for the links, Celsus.