Neither CoH nor CoV

[wei yau]

So, it's kinda hard to play CoX without being aware of the upcoming game, Champions Online (http://www.champions-online.com/). It will be the "other" superhero MMORPG, once it is released later this year.

It's being developed by Cryptic Studios, the original developers for CoH. And since both are based in the same source material (namely, comic book heroes), there will be a lot of similarities.

Now, for an altoholic like me, the ability to customize the appearance of your powers is very tempting. On the other hand, I doubt I'll ever play two MMORPGs at the same time (of course, I also said that I'd never play one).

Personally, I'm ambivalent about the cel-shading. It looks more comic booky (I guess), but there's something about it that doesn't quite work for me. In some of the screenshots, the backgrounds seem more "real" while the characters seem more "cartoony". This gives it a "Roger Rabbit" aesthetic, that I don't care for.

While I don't see myself leaving CoX for Champions, I am interested in what you all think.

[Sock Puppet]

I'm not gonna unzip the video files from work, but the screenshots don't show the background/character disparity. I'd have to see the way it looks in-game, but the screenshots look promising -- definitely a strong comic-book look. I'd be willing to download a trial version when it comes out.

[BrotherMan]

It's worth keeping an eye on I suppose. With the resurgence of support for City of I don't see it replacing that. I'm going to do something uncharacteristic of the geek community. I'm not going to try it when it comes out - or perhaps better stated as I'm going to try and resist testing it when it comes out.

I kind of like what costume options I've seen so far but I'm not crazy about how the characters look overall. The world and powers I don't have a comment on other than to approve of being able to customize how the powers look.

When City of Heroes was first being built there were a lot of ideas and wants that, for one reason or another, didn't make it into the final game. Right now Champions Online feels like it is still in that promise the moon stage.

And as a bit of sour grapes I still have a bitter taste in my mouth over some early changes made in City of Heroes forwarded by certain people still employed at Cryptic. Setting that aside I think competition in the realm of super MMOs is a good thing and I look forward to the one-ups NCSoft and Cryptic and ... SOE (or whomever is working on the DCUMMO).

[wei yau]

I kind of like what costume options I've seen so far but I'm not crazy about how the characters look overall. The world and powers I don't have a comment on other than to approve of being able to customize how the powers look.

That's more or less my take on it right now.

When City of Heroes was first being built there were a lot of ideas and wants that, for one reason or another, didn't make it into the final game.

What ideas and wants were those?

And as a bit of sour grapes I still have a bitter taste in my mouth over some early changes made in City of Heroes forwarded by certain people still employed at Cryptic.

At the risk of re-opening old wounds, what changes are you referring to?

Setting that aside I think competition in the realm of super MMOs is a good thing and I look forward to the one-ups NCSoft and Cryptic and ... SOE (or whomever is working on the DCUMMO).

The DCUMMO is the one I'm most worried about causing me to switch from CoX. The ability to interact within the DC Universe and to possibly have storylines from the comics manifested in the game is very tempting.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if they will make the DC licensed characters uber-strong, so as to prevent every Tom, Dick and Harry from trying to take out the Batman.

Still, I've invested so much time and creativity into CoX (despite having only played for three months), that I'm not yet willing to abandon the game for another. I can imagine that more veteran CoX players feel the same, though most probably don't have a self-imposed limitation of one MMORPG at a time.

[BrotherMan]

When City of Heroes was first being built there were a lot of ideas and wants that, for one reason or another, didn't make it into the final game.

What ideas and wants were those?

The biggest one was any power, any time. I don't know what technological limitations prevented that from happening. There were no archetypes in the beginning, only origins which defined what enhancements one could use. Champions seems to have overcome this hurdle.

Targeted damage. In an early demo of City of Heroes a developer showed how one could target specific body parts on an enemy to achieve certain effects in combat. I don't think Champions can do this either.

Those are the biggest ones that people will talk about. I haven't viewed the CO website in a while; but after a quick look-about they're further along that I thought. It looks like everything that will be in the game is present.


And as a bit of sour grapes I still have a bitter taste in my mouth over some early changes made in City of Heroes forwarded by certain people still employed at Cryptic.

At the risk of re-opening old wounds, what changes are you referring to?

Early issue releases never seemed to improve powers, rather always decreasing them. It's far enough in the past that you may never come across the acronyms, but two in particular had long reaching resonance for the community.


Global Defense Nerf (http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Global_Defense_Nerf), or GDN
Enhancement Diversification (http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Enhancement_Diversification), or ED


The second was considered more onerous than the first. The implementation of ED led to a not-insignificant loss of subscriptions.

On a more personal note, the scrapper secondary of regeneration was hit multiple times over the course of three issue releases. The biggest of which was the alteration of a certain power, Integration, from a toggle to a click power.

It was this combination of hits early on that caused me to cancel my subscription for a while. After a while I missed certain elements that could not be found anywhere else.

In hindsight the changes weren't so horrific. Integration was a superbly overpowered ability. This may not make sense to you as yet but when I could walk away from a fight with a Freakshow Tank Boss to get something to drink with full confidence that my character still be breathing balance for the sake of the game needed to assert itself.

ED I support grudgingly. And at the time the GDN didn't affect any of my characters.


]Setting that aside I think competition in the realm of super MMOs is a good thing and I look forward to the one-ups NCSoft and Cryptic and ... SOE (or whomever is working on the DCUMMO).

The DCUMMO is the one I'm most worried about causing me to switch from CoX. The ability to interact within the DC Universe and to possibly have storylines from the comics manifested in the game is very tempting.

I'm not following the DCUMMO. I've seen early screenshots and I am completely turned off by it. I think I likened it to a fancier Jimmy Neutron - something about the way the characters are lit makes them look plastic and fake.

[wei yau]

Heh, funny thing about ED. It wasn't until I read briefly about it that I realized I could slot the same enhancement type in different slots. Until then, I'd been combining enhancements of the same type into a single slot.

The returns on those were much worse than even ED's diminishing returns.

Still, you're right in that I'm recent enough to CoX that these two things really don't affect me since I never knew life before them.

While I've never met a Freakshow Tank Boss, I get the gist of what you're saying with GDN.

[wei yau]

Setting that aside I think competition in the realm of super MMOs is a good thing and I look forward to the one-ups NCSoft and Cryptic and ... SOE (or whomever is working on the DCUMMO).

Thinking on this point of yours, I'd wonder just how much one-upping can be done by NCSoft. Aside from the aforementioned power customization, another appealing aspect of both CO and DCUO (I believe) is destructible environments. I like the idea of ripping out a lamp-post and bashing someone with it or tossing a car in their general direction.

Given what little I know about game programming, I have to say that these things sound like major changes to a game that does not already have them in place.

I watched a piece on G4 about CO and there was something about the gameplay that didn't work for me. Maybe it was the angle of the camera or something, but it just felt more like "Diablo" than CoX. I'm not sure if that's accurate, since if I set my camera perspective to a near top-down position, I'd bet even CoX would look kinda "Diablo-ish".

Also, I believe both CO and DCUO are going to be cross-platform ready, meaning both PCs and consoles. I have to believe that such a thing would mean a simplification of controls, since the console has only a limited set of button options (as opposed to the keyboard and mouse).

I don't mind simpler controls necessarily, but if fighting devolves into button-mashing (like Marvel Ultimate Alliance), then I'm not really all that interested.

[BrotherMan]

Certainly there are things that City of simply cannot offer from their limited technology. However features such as the Mission Architect will be a draw for those who enjoy that kind of element. So, while they may not always be able to offer an equivalent surely keeping developers on their toes to offer something different (and worthwhile) is a good thing.


While I've never met a Freakshow Tank Boss, I get the gist of what you're saying with GDN.

Take the tram to Brickstown. Go down the walkway and turn right. You will not miss one (and in turn one won't miss you either).

[Nightson]

The one thing I've learned from MMOs and beta testing most of them, is that you know nothing about the game until you're sitting with a retail copy one month into the game.