Religious bumperstickers, etc.

[maddog]

Today as I was driving to my therapy appt., I was stopped behind a van/SUV. This car had a big "TRUTH" fish gobbling up a small "Darwin" fish. Now, I have always been amused by the "fish" plaques of all kinds. The three kinds of "Jesus" or Christian fish, the cute footed Darwin fish, the tool-holding "Evolve" fish, etc. I've also seen "Gefilte" fish, "lutefisk" fish, "CX & Chips" fish, a Scuba fish, an Alien fish, a Rocket fish, dead fish and all kinds. I always kind of liked the giant "TRUTH eating Darwin" fish because, while it's the Christians' response to the Darwin fish, and the Darwin fish is a response to the original Christian fish, the "TRUTH eating Darwin" fish EXEMPLIFIES the cardboard cartoon cut-out version of evolution -- i.e., the "survival of the fittest" by competition -- that they're claiming to overcome and destroy. So I've always seen that as ironic, and funny. I also like that it's a conversation in cartoons.

Well, this same car also had a license plate frame. This one wasn't funny; in fact, it was frightening if you ask me. It said:
TRUTH NOT tolerance This license plate frame looked manufactured, not homemade. Are there REALLY legions of people out there who are willing to express this sentiment out loud? WOW! gives me the willies. :shudder: :afraid: :fuming: What IS IT about religion, esp American Christian religion, anyway? The teacher's greatest command is "love thy neighbor." His greatest teaching is "EVERYONE is your neighbor." And yet these people preach and practice, "NO TOLERANCE!" for anyone who disagrees with them. Unbelievable.
#314

[seebs]

I think there's a certain amount of conflation to it; for instance, some people feel that "tolerance" requires a great deal more comfortable liking than they are willing to put into this...

[ApostateAbe]

TRUTH NOT tolerance I agree with the thrust of that sticker. Tolerance must yield to truth. I think the reason it is scary is because the person professing it disagrees with you about what constitutes truth.

[copiae]

I agree with the thrust of that sticker. Tolerance must yield to truth. I think the reason it is scary is because the person professing it disagrees with you about what constitutes truth.

So what exactly does constitute truth, in your opinion?

[Ari]

I think the reason it's scary is that this person is obviously easily manipulated enough to think that creationism is truth over evolution. Who knows what other "truth" they have been manipulated into believing.
I mean, which supremacists see truth (whites are a superior race) and don't like tolerance (giving blacks equal rights, and allowing them to intermix).

Although I do like the subtle irony that Abe has pointed out. If this slogan was on the car of a strong atheist, it could mean "Truth" (Christianity is a false belief, God doesn't exist) not "tolerance" (Tolerating the things people do in support of this false belief).

[ApostateAbe]

I agree with the thrust of that sticker. Tolerance must yield to truth. I think the reason it is scary is because the person professing it disagrees with you about what constitutes truth.

So what exactly does constitute truth, in your opinion?Mostly the revelations of observation and basic reason independent from the perpetrators of delusions such as emotion, pride, superstition, wishful thinking, etc.

[godfry n. glad]

I agree with the thrust of that sticker. Tolerance must yield to truth. I think the reason it is scary is because the person professing it disagrees with you about what constitutes truth.

So what exactly does constitute truth, in your opinion?Mostly the revelations of observation and basic reason independent from the perpetrators of delusions such as emotion, pride, superstition, wishful thinking, etc.


You mean like the sun revolving around the earth?

[ApostateAbe]

I agree with the thrust of that sticker. Tolerance must yield to truth. I think the reason it is scary is because the person professing it disagrees with you about what constitutes truth.

So what exactly does constitute truth, in your opinion?Mostly the revelations of observation and basic reason independent from the perpetrators of delusions such as emotion, pride, superstition, wishful thinking, etc.


You mean like the sun revolving around the earth?No, not like Sun revolving around Earth. If you want a challenge, then let me know first. You can start another thread and I will be a lot more careful with my rhetoric.

[maddog]

TRUTH NOT tolerance I agree with the thrust of that sticker. Tolerance must yield to truth. I think the reason it is scary is because the person professing it disagrees with you about what constitutes truth.
Well, objective truth is objective truth, I suppose. But why is it necessary to regard "truth" and "tolerance" as antagonistic? What about knowing the truth (whatever that means) implies that intolerance is a good thing? Shouldn't it be that "While knowing the truth" we "go ahead and treat others with tolerance"?
#315

[ApostateAbe]

TRUTH NOT tolerance I agree with the thrust of that sticker. Tolerance must yield to truth. I think the reason it is scary is because the person professing it disagrees with you about what constitutes truth.
Well, objective truth is objective truth, I suppose. But why is it necessary to regard "truth" and "tolerance" as antagonistic? What about knowing the truth (whatever that means) implies that intolerance is a good thing? Shouldn't it be that "While knowing the truth" we "go ahead and treat others with tolerance"?It is really my nature that compels me to agree with the statement, "truth not tolerance." Truth is my number one value, and everything must yield to truth, be it love, happiness, morality, unity, survival or tolerance. If you want a more meaningful discussion on the matter, then we will need a more specific definition of "tolerance." The broader the definition of "tolerance" becomes, the more disagreeable the bumper sticker becomes, perhaps even to the point where I would disagree with it.

[maddog]

For me, the hinge is not necessarily so much how broad or narrow the definition of "tolerance" is, but the necessarily squishy nature of the definition of "truth." Particularly in this context, where truth isn't simply truth, but it's "TRUTH," and it's a claimed "TRUTH" about things which are ultimately unknowable. It's about the alleged truth of human judgments about human problems. In my experience, when it comes to humanity and human problems, we need tolerance for one another a LOT more than we need one enforced brand of TRUTH. I could live with "tolerance" in the absence of any truth, far more than I can live in a world of TRUTH NOT tolerance. And I DO mean "live" literally. If the pounders of TRUTH had their way, I'd be killed. That's what "NOT tolerance" means.
#316

[ApostateAbe]

For me, the hinge is not necessarily so much how broad or narrow the definition of "tolerance" is, but the necessarily squishy nature of the definition of "truth." Particularly in this context, where truth isn't simply truth, but it's "TRUTH," and it's a claimed "TRUTH" about things which are ultimately unknowable. It's about the alleged truth of human judgments about human problems. In my experience, when it comes to humanity and human problems, we need tolerance for one another a LOT more than we need one enforced brand of TRUTH. I could live with "tolerance" in the absence of any truth, far more than I can live in a world of TRUTH NOT tolerance. And I DO mean "live" literally. If the pounders of TRUTH had their way, I'd be killed. That's what "NOT tolerance" means.OK, so there is at least one and I'd say two ambiguously-defined words on that license-plate frame. Misunderstanding is the disadvantage of ambiguity. I highly doubt that those people want you dead.

[godfry n. glad]

Since y'all included that "etc." in the title, I'll swerve off on a political tangent and pass on the most recent amusing bumpersticker I've seen:

Now we're all wearing
the blue dress

Only it was tastefully done in reverse; white letters on blue background.

[maddog]

I highly doubt that those people want you dead.
I'm a gay woman atheist. And a liberal. I'm not so sure.

ETA: Oh, and, godfry? I feel a complete fool. I take it that the "blue dress" bumpersticker is a ref to the Lewinsky/Clinton thing? (1) If so, can you 'splain to dense-in-the-head how it's supposed to be taken? (I purposely tuned out of and did not follow the entire impeachment debacle, so I know THAT there was a blue dress, but I don't know how "we're all wearing it" makes sense.) (2) If it isn't Monica Lewinsky, what does it refer to? :dunce: really pathetic, huh? Humor is ruined when you have to explain the jokes.
#319

[Weaselboots]

I take it that the "blue dress" bumpersticker is a ref to the Lewinsky/Clinton thing?

I could be totally wrong here, but i understood it as something like "now we ALL have been fuked over by the governement" maybe?

Not that anything could happen over here, have you seen our PM? about as attractive and charsimatic as damp lettuce.

[godfry n. glad]

I take it that the "blue dress" bumpersticker is a ref to the Lewinsky/Clinton thing?

I could be totally wrong here, but i understood it as something like "now we ALL have been fuked over by the governement" maybe?

Not that anything could happen over here, have you seen our PM? about as attractive and charsimatic as damp lettuce.

Yep... "We're all giving blow jobs to this president." The blue dress was where indisputable DNA evidence was found (semen).

I heard all about him last May. The Aussies on my trip all referred to him as "Bansai" Howard....a "little Bush".

As for attractive and charismatic, I'll pass. If the candidate can think straight and express themselves intelligently, then I think we're ahead of the game. I personally don't give a shit about their sex lives or what they do to try to hide it from their spousal units.....if they can keep our nation on a sane course, I'm for it.

Our President Lincoln (the guy on the US $5 bill) was neither attractive nor charismatic. His speaking voice has been described as "high and squeaky". He could never have been elected in electronic media America. Nor was the primary author of our constitution and fourth president, James Madison...he was barely five foot tall.

[godfry n. glad]

ETA: Oh, and, godfry? I feel a complete fool. I take it that the "blue dress" bumpersticker is a ref to the Lewinsky/Clinton thing? (1) If so, can you 'splain to dense-in-the-head how it's supposed to be taken? (I purposely tuned out of and did not follow the entire impeachment debacle, so I know THAT there was a blue dress, but I don't know how "we're all wearing it" makes sense.) (2) If it isn't Monica Lewinsky, what does it refer to? :dunce: really pathetic, huh? Humor is ruined when you have to explain the jokes.
#319

Hey, maddog...

Don't feel too bad, my sense of humor can be pretty obtuse at times. I read it to mean that with this president (Dumbya the chimpanzee) the entire nation is down on its knees (in a blue dress, just like Monica) giving the president a virtual hummer...and the best we can hope for is a load in the face and he'll feel reeeeeeal good.

I can see how you might not readily apprehend the humor of the quote.

[Götterdämmerung]

Best bumper sticker i've seen recently:

Religion prevents the poor from killing off the rich

[Ymir's blood]

There is also a vampire fish. One actually appeared in Boone a few years ago.

I'm rather paranoid about bumperstickers and such in general, since you never know what might annoy the cop that hasn't decided whether or not to pull you. Also, I'd hate for my bad behavior to get used as evidence against whatever position the sticker supported.