What does "worship" mean?

[maddog]

I have a vague recollection that there may have been a thread earlier on this, but I am too lazy to go back and look it up. [ETA: Oh, yeah, and because we're supposed to keep the "thread numbers" sufficiently healthy to provide expansion room for smilies!] Nonetheless, I find myself often bothered by the use of the word, "worship." I can't even say I'm bothered by the "concept of 'worship,'" because I don't think I even HAVE a concept of "worship." At least not one that I can recognize by my contacts with people who claim to be "worshipping."

For example, I took my aunt to church a couple of weeks ago. I do this from time to time; she's elderly and is unable to go herself, and yet the church and the community there (including several members of our extended family -- our family is big in the history of this brand of church) are very important to her. As usual, there was a little program handed out that described what things would be done when. Someone lights some candles. The pastor says a few introductory words. There is a song. Everyone who wants to goes to the mike and talks about their "joys and concerns" and asks for prayers and some such. Then the pastor says a bit more. Then there's another song. Then the pastor says a bit more, and says, "let's prepare our hearts for worship." Then there's some music while the collection basket is passed. Then the pastor gives a talk or sermon on some topic or theme. Then there are a couple more songs. Then there are perhaps some closing remarks and another song, and that's it. Where was the worship? What does it mean, "worship"? I didn't see any, or if I did, I couldn't tell the difference between "worship" and "talking and singing songs." Or maybe between "talking and singing songs which ARE worship" and "talking and singing songs which AREN'T worship."

Is it something you DO? Is it something you FEEL? How do you determine when someone is "worshipping" and when they're not? How do you determine if you yourself are "worshipping" and when you're not?

When somebody says, "let's prepare our hearts for worship," what do they mean? How do you recognize "worship"? How do you know how to "prepare a heart" for "worship"? I don't get it.
#320

[godfry n. glad]

Hmmm.... I always thought the "worship" part was when the pastor cues everybody with, "Let us prey."

[maddog]

Hallo, godfry! I thought nobody was looking, and that this thread had been delivered stillborn.

Seriously, though, if what you say is true, what's the difference between "worship" and "prayer"? In addition, there WASN'T any particular part of this service that was, "Let us pray."

#364

[Goliath]

In my experience, worship is the act of praying and fearing a god.

And all prayers that I have encountered are either of the form "Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme GIMMAH!!" or of the form "Oh Lord, P...p...please don't hurt me! I'll do whatever you want!"

[godfry n. glad]

To be quite honest, MD, I'm a piss-poor source of information on this, 'cause I'm probably just as perplexed as are you.

My experience is that most theists consider the whole service to be "worship", and any time they pray is "worship", and any time they even think about their god is "worship". But that's an outsider's view. You need a theist to answer this definitively (which excludes Goliath as well, unless he's had a major change in outlook). The ones that bother me the most are those who not only "talk to their god", but it talks back. To me, that has all the markings of incipient schizophrenia.

Maybe if we say enough dopey stuff, one of the theists will come in and correct us?

[viscousmemories]

Odd, I don't recall ever seeing this thread. Sorry, Maddog!

I've always understood worship to mean (in short) praising and adoring God for being God. This could be done by praying quietly or aloud, in English or 'tongues', through song or dance, etc. I grew up a Catholic in an ecumenical Christian community so I'm not sure what (if any) specific variant of the Christian religion this is relevant to.

[godfry n. glad]

Odd, I don't recall ever seeing this thread. Sorry, Maddog!

I've always understood worship to mean (in short) praising and adoring God for being God.

Yeah... I've heard this, too, or versions of it.

I've kind of wondered why it is that it's percieved to be necessary. I mean, if it's as all-fired omniscient and omnipotent as is usually claimed, why would it need puny little humans praising and adoring it? Does it have a poor self-esteem? What purpose does worship serve?

[Dragar]

What purpose does worship serve?

I think the idea is that it benefits the worshipper more than the worshipped.

I'm not saying it does, just that's the idea. And probably more a recent justification of an old ritual which probably went pretty much how Goliath described it.

[copiae]

Keeping it succinct, I've always interally defined worship to be an act performed for a deity. The act can be based upon fear, love, adoration, tradition, and/or devotion.


Like with many things, a more concrete definition that is less open to misinterpretation may be quite difficult to come up with, especially considering that the definition has to be broad enough to accomodate the various types of worship that have existed over the ages.

[godfry n. glad]

Keeping it succinct, I've always interally defined worship to be an act performed for a deity. The act can be based upon fear, love, adoration, tradition, and/or devotion.


But to what end?

[maddog]

I'm trying to figure out if there's anything distinct in the concept of "worship," such that it's able to be identified separately from other religious behaviors. "Attending church," I understand. "Praying," I understand. Even "salaaming," I understand. Same with "sacrificing." I know it when I see it. I don't understand "worship," or how to identify it. Is it completely internal?

#365

[viscousmemories]

I'm trying to figure out if there's anything distinct in the concept of "worship," such that it's able to be identified separately from other religious behaviors. "Attending church," I understand. "Praying," I understand. Even "salaaming," I understand. Same with "sacrificing." I know it when I see it. I don't understand "worship," or how to identify it. Is it completely internal?

#365
I don't think worship is a behavior as much as a state of mind. It seems to be roughly synonymous with love and adoration, and expressed through various mental and physical behaviors such as praying, singing, etc. So I doubt you could identify it separate from other behaviors anymore than you could separate the act of loving your dog from how you think about it and treat it.

[Shake]

Slightly o.t.:
For example, I took my aunt to church a couple of weeks ago. I do this from time to time; she's elderly and is unable to go herself, and yet the church and the community there (including several members of our extended family -- our family is big in the history of this brand of church) are very important to her.
Interesting that the task of getting her there falls on you, as I assume you wouldn't otherwise attend.

Yes, the phrasing can seem to give it different meanings. "Come join us for worship," is something you'll see around. In this sense it does seem more like merely "attending church services." Other times, it seems to be -- as in the case at your aunt's church -- just one aspect of the service. It seems to me to be more of the praying and praising aspect of the service. Not that it even needs to be formal, of course.

Dictionary.com has several definitions:
The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
To honor and love as a deity.
To participate in religious rites of worship.

These seem to encompass both behavior and state of mind.

[maddog]

Thank you, Shake, vm.

"Worship" is just such a strange word, to me. It's used, almost exclusively in my experience, in connection with religion, but I just don't see that it adds anything to other words describing religious practice or experience. It's like a bit of jargon, added on to make what's ordinary seem mysterious, or something. You could just as easily say, "attend church," or "pray," or "sing hymns," or even "praise," or "salaam," or "meditate," or "think." Emotionally, you could say you "love" or "adore." So I just don't see what the word "worship" adds, and therefore, why anyone uses that word. It seems to obfuscate rather than clarify anything. A fairly useless word.

I get confused when thinking of typical Christian doctrine and the concept of God. In deciding the question of the existence of God, and the problem of evil in connection with the tri-omni God, if God is not all-good, then he is not worthy of worship. So people decide whether the God they have in mind is "worthy of worship." And the Christian God described in the Bible seems to be all about "worship me!" ("or else!") So, just exactly what is this God asking for? I can't really figure it out.

#367

[copiae]

But to what end?


The superficial answer here is to the end of satisfying a deity. However, as you have pointed out in an earlier post, this answer is somewhat contradictory when faced with a transcendental,omnipotent, omniscient & omnibenevolent deity. So, I am tempted to say that it is the assurance of precedence (the force of habit).

That answer may explain part of it, but it doesnt answer why it is so persistent, and why practically every culture in the world has some form of god belief + associated worship. Perhaps another reason is that it is beneficial to some of the worshippers. Maybe they view praying as being cathartic in nature, a passing on of thier worries to a higher power.

[Sweetie]

Maddog,

I don't know that I'd describe it as an act though it might be for some people.

I would say it is the adoration, devotion and tradition that is born out of the love for the deity based on "fear of the Lord" = awe of Him and recognition (or belief if you will) of who and what He is, the source, centre and object of all existence.

But that's just the way I would put it in this moment, not really well thought out but to me it's not an act in the same way that love is not just an act but it's not necessarily not an action either.

Can you say you love someone if you don't act on that love? ie: is there real love without action?

If you act in a loving way is it possible that you don't actually love that someone? You could be motivated by solely selfish reasons.

So, it's more of a both/and concept to me lol, another one but "to worship" to me is very similar to the idea of "to love."

For instance, the sentences and ideas of:

I love you, I have made love to you, I am loving you.

I worship you, I have worshipped you (by that action), I am worshipping you.

[Sweetie]

"You could just as easily say, "attend church,"

Catholics say "go to Church" or "go to Mass." Mass though is a sacrifice, "the sacrifice of the Mass" which is the offering of the Eucharist which is the highest "act of" worship to us and we partipate in it so we are a part of that worship but we don't generally call it a worship service.

"pray," or "sing hymns," or even "praise," or "salaam," or "meditate," or "think."

It's mostly Evangelicals who exchange the normal terms "pray" or "offer praise," "sing hymns," for the term "worship." We just pray and sing hymns, not even necessarily "offer praise."

Emotionally, you could say you "love" or "adore."

Yes, you could to an extent except you can't "make love" to God, so we "worship" him instead, there is a different language when speaking from human to human or about human to human and human to deity because of the interaction. I think the word "love" though even, has lost it's special meaning to a certain extent. "I love my dog", "I love the colour green," "I love my husband," "I love my children," "I love God."

So I just don't see what the word "worship" adds, and therefore, why anyone uses that word. It seems to obfuscate rather than clarify anything. A fairly useless word.

I think it adds context.


I get confused when thinking of typical Christian doctrine and the concept of God. In deciding the question of the existence of God, and the problem of evil in connection with the tri-omni God, if God is not all-good, then he is not worthy of worship.

Right.

So people decide whether the God they have in mind is "worthy of worship."

Right.

And the Christian God described in the Bible seems to be all about "worship me!" ("or else!") So, just exactly what is this God asking for? I can't really figure it out.

#367

That's another subject. If you're up to putting up with me we could discuss it. :P

I apologize for my previous impatience, FYI.

[maddog]

Thank you, Sweetie, for your detailed responses. This is helpful. Big discussion not necessary. Thanks, tho'!
#373