Rosemary, you shall not defeat me!

[livius drusus]

I got a lovely little rosemary plant yesterday, and I'd really like it to actually survive, unlike its predecessors.

It's in a terracotta pot in full sun (8 hours at least), gravel on the bottom of the pot for drainage. I mixed some sand into the potting mixture to dry to duplicate its dry home environment. I've watered it and added some diluted fish/kelp emulsion.

Now what? In the past I think I killed them by either overwatering or letting it bake to death. I have a hard time figuring out when to water and how much full sun is too much full sun for a plant in a container. Advice on how to achieve happy rosemary medium would be very much appreciated. :beg:

[cappuccino]

I think most likely overwatering was what killed your earlier rosemary attempts.

The past weekend I went home to see my parents. Mom has three full rosemary bushes out in her garden. She gave me some snippings and told me to just stick them into a pot with potting soil, place it in a semi-shady location, then keep the soil moist while the snippings sprout new roots. Then after a few months, transplant the rosemary into the ground at a sunny location. So I'll see how they do in new soil far from Mom's garden.

A year ago I had a small rosemary potted in a window basket with other herbs using ordinary Miracle-gro soil and it did just fine. One time I left on vacation for a week and returned to find most of the herbs had died in a dry heat wave but left the rosemary unfazed and happy. What finally killed the rosemary was leaving the basket out during a frost snap.

[Leesifer]

I've got a rosemary bush in my garden liv - not in a pot though. I've never had to do anything with it except cut it back and obviously water it when we've had a dry spell.

I found This page (http://www.herbexpert.co.uk/GrowingRosemary.html) which may be helpful to you.

Good luck with your rosemary. It's my favourite herb for baked chicken.

[Sock Puppet]

Good luck. We got one of those potted rosemary plants trimmed to resemble a Christmas tree, and promptly killed it. In our case it was left in an otherwise plantless spot, forgotten and unwatered. Oops. And now I discover we have to watch out for overwatering as well? Fuhgeddaboutit.

[godfry n. glad]

Bring to Specific Nerdfest. Plant. Forget.

Given that it grows wild all about Jerusalem...like a weed...entirely unattended, I'm inclined to think that you are overpampering it.

Honest.

I checked my Botanica and they have the following for Rosmarinus officinalis cultivation:

"Rosmarinus prefers a sunny site and thrives in poor soil if it is well drained; it is salt tolerant. Prune regularly to keep it compact and promote new growth. It can be grown as a specimen shrub or a low hedge. Propigate from seed or cuttings in summer."

I've one I planted at the base of the front steps....it's in full bloom right now with scads of lavender blossoms....that, other than to originally plant and subsequently annually prune (heavily), for which I've not done a thing. I even forced it to share its space with a cistus. It's on the edge of an iris bed, so...on June 21 it'll get 16 hours of sun. It's six feet tall.

[Plant Woman]

Give it too much fertilizer and it won't give you its full flavor and aromatic qualities. Like many Mediterranean herbs it thrives on neglect.

Gravel for drainage is a myth. In fact, what you wind up doing is just decreasing the amount of root area. The moisture doesn't easily move from one medium to the next--soil to gravel--so it doesn't increase drainage, sorry to say. Best to put a screen (I use landscape fabric over the drainage hole) then fill with a good draining potting soil.

If outside in the baking sun you will need to water regularly to keep the soil from completely drying out. You do want the soil on the dry side but not bone dry. If the pot is exposed to hot baking sun that may mean it will need daily watering. Indoors you should only have to water it maybe once a month. Indoors it will not be in a full sun position unless you have sunroom.

I would keep it outside in the summer if you can see to its watering needs and bring it inside for winter. Be sure to slowly acclimate it to go outside and same in reverse when you bring it in during the fall. I usually like to do this when the outside temps are matching the indoor temps. Like you would your own skin slowly introduce it to full sun outdoors as it will burn the foliage much like we do with sunburn.

[Ymir's blood]

Kill it before it has a baby.

[livius drusus]

I've got a rosemary bush in my garden liv - not in a pot though. I've never had to do anything with it except cut it back and obviously water it when we've had a dry spell.

I found This page (http://www.herbexpert.co.uk/GrowingRosemary.html) which may be helpful to you.

Good luck with your rosemary. It's my favourite herb for baked chicken.
And roasted root veggies. Thank you for the link. I have a great book with more details, but it's the rl experience of success I lack. I should just plant it in the ground now that I own a wee patch, but I have no idea what's going on in this soil.

Good luck. We got one of those potted rosemary plants trimmed to resemble a Christmas tree, and promptly killed it. In our case it was left in an otherwise plantless spot, forgotten and unwatered. Oops. And now I discover we have to watch out for overwatering as well? Fuhgeddaboutit.
Oh shit, I've done both and I was watching it like a hawk. No forgetting for me, man. For a plant that happily grows on cliff-faces, rosemary has been my greatest challenge.

Given that it grows wild all about Jerusalem...like a weed...entirely unattended, I'm inclined to think that you are overpampering it.

Honest.
I agree completely. I obsess about it and second guess myself constantly. It's just hard for me to tell what's wrong until it's too late.

My dad has a rosemary bush in a pot. It started out tiny like mine is then grew and grew until the roots grew through the pot. He just hefts it indoors when it gets cold, rootpot and all, pops it into a larger pot, and keeps it in the window all winter. Then he buries it outside again in the spring.

That plant can take anything! It doesn't even give a shit. Sometimes parts of it get brown and dry up so my dad cuts them back to a nub and the next year it's back in full coat. Meanwhile, I'm in an appropriately warm climate and I can't grow a rosemary plant to save my life.

I've one I planted at the base of the front steps....it's in full bloom right now with scads of lavender blossoms....that, other than to originally plant and subsequently annually prune (heavily), for which I've not done a thing. I even forced it to share its space with a cistus. It's on the edge of an iris bed, so...on June 21 it'll get 16 hours of sun. It's six feet tall.
Amazing. If I could afford it, I would have an entire hedge made of such rosemaries. Beautiful and fragrant and critter-repellent.

Give it too much fertilizer and it won't give you its full flavor and aromatic qualities. Like many Mediterranean herbs it thrives on neglect.

Gravel for drainage is a myth. In fact, what you wind up doing is just decreasing the amount of root area. The moisture doesn't easily move from one medium to the next--soil to gravel--so it doesn't increase drainage, sorry to say. Best to put a screen (I use landscape fabric over the drainage hole) then fill with a good draining potting soil.
Damn. Now that you've said that I remember you told me this before. I've knocked out some of the gravel now, but I can't remove it all unless I dig it up.

I got some landscape fabric for the other herbs, though, so thank you for the tip. :thankee:

If outside in the baking sun you will need to water regularly to keep the soil from completely drying out. You do want the soil on the dry side but not bone dry. If the pot is exposed to hot baking sun that may mean it will need daily watering. Indoors you should only have to water it maybe once a month. Indoors it will not be in a full sun position unless you have sunroom.
I don't really have any good plant windows inside. This guy is definitely staying outside. He is in the baking sun. I had to move my chives to the opposite end under the overhang where they only get afternoon sun because the full sun dried them right out.

How can I tell if the rosemary needs water? I've tried the stick your finger in the soil and see if it feels damp trick, but I've found my own perceptions less than reliable.

I would keep it outside in the summer if you can see to its watering needs and bring it inside for winter. Be sure to slowly acclimate it to go outside and same in reverse when you bring it in during the fall. I usually like to do this when the outside temps are matching the indoor temps. Like you would your own skin slowly introduce it to full sun outdoors as it will burn the foliage much like we do with sunburn.
That makes sense. I seriously don't have any windows I can use to give a plant direct sun, though. I have some bright rooms, but no real prime plant real estate.

[Plant Woman]

Remember that a plant that may be hardy in the ground may not have hardy enough roots to withstand cold temps in a pot. What zone are you in?

[godfry n. glad]

Unless that unresponsive lapse some time back included a domicile move, I believe she's in, or around, Atlanta, Georgia, PW.

[livius drusus]

Yup. It's hot, iow, except for some freakishly cold snaps now and again. But really my concern is keeping it alive over the summer. If I have to decide whether to bring it indoors at first frost, that will already be a major success for me.

[Plant Woman]

It's the cold snaps that could do it in, if you get it through to winter. Hey, I'm an optimist, I believe you can keep it going until then.

You could keep it outside then all winter and bring it in whenever you get the cold snaps then take it right back out so it doesn't get used to a warm room. That means however you will have to pay attention to the weather every day. I do that for a couple of plants and have a weather report for my area delivered daily in my email.

[livius drusus]

I'd gladly do that. I'm also considering devising some sort of collapsible lean-to I could cover them with when it's cold.

Okay but back to now! I've never had one survive the summer. It's out in full sun. I didn't water it this morning because the soil still looked dark and moist. Should I water it every morning along with the other plants even if it looks or feels damp? I water the others (lemon thyme, juniper thyme, basil, parsley, oregano, sage, chives) every day when it's hot and I have a solid record of success with them. I'm trying to gauge appropriate neglect for rosemary given the clay pot and the hot deck with full sun from 10 - 6.

[godfry n. glad]

I think you need to put it somewhere sunny, but out of the way...so it will get largely ignored.

[livius drusus]

But what if it's too hot and the next time I notice it it's brown and crispy? That has happened to me before. Container plants aren't as self-sufficient as plants in the ground.

[godfry n. glad]

Heh...Yeah, like you should be taking advice from me about container planting. (NOT.) The only thing I've really had any luck with have been the delphinia, which love inordinate pampering, and iris, which thrive on being ignored. Everything else has had a precarious existance, including the zonal geraniums, which I would not lose if I'd just take them in every fall.

[Crumb]

I had trouble with my Rosemary, too. I grow everything in pots. It didn't survive the winter, but it did do pretty good last summer. I watered it as much as the Basil when it was getting a lot of sun on a hot day. (I've rebooted with a new one this summer.)

[Watser?]

I think you need to put it somewhere sunny, but out of the way...so it will get largely ignored.

Spain?

[Leesifer]

:glare:

Hmm! My only thought here is with my potted plants, I tend to give them a really good soaking once the sun has gone down in the evening during the summer if they are outside. If they are in the conservatory then they get watered (just the soil, not the leaves) in the morning and evening.

[Plant Woman]

If the soil is still moist I wouldn't water it.

If you can shade the pot itself, that might help. Since you are in a hot climate you can put the plant in partial shade. If you can give it good morning sun and then shade during the hottest part of the day. Otherwise try to shade the pot from sun. Don't allow the roots to be in saturated or water-logged soil. I'm worried about your gravel in the pot hampering drainage and I would take the plant back out, mix your soil with more vermiculite to aid in drainage and replant the sucker. Don't transplant during the heat of day as that adds to the stress of the plant. Be sure the pot isn't too much bigger than the root system as too big of a pot will encourage root rot. Every year in spring repot it to the next size up in pots. Since you are using potting soil, check to see if there is lime in the mix, as it does best with sweet soils.

I am hoping I've covered all the bases for you, but if I think of anything else that might be the cause of your Rosemary demise, I will post it.

[livius drusus]

Oh wow, thank you for the all the tips. I shall implement promptly. :bow:

Right now the rosemary is in a pot considerably larger than the root system, so that gives me another reason besides the gravel to go ahead and repot. I thought the larger pot would help ensure the roots weren't wet because the clay wicks water.

Man, this stuff is hard. There's a lot of conflicting information out there for the inexperienced gardener to muddle through.

[Plant Woman]

I know it can seem daunting, but soon you will get a feel for it and it will become second nature for you. And even experienced gardeners have their failures. I figure if I haven't killed it three (sometimes more) times, I haven't trialed it enough.

ETA: If your rosemary outgrows the pot in a few months, go ahead and repot it up to the next size.

[godfry n. glad]

I know it can seem daunting, but soon you will get a feel for it and it will become second nature for you. And even experienced gardeners have their failures. I figure if I haven't killed it three (sometimes more) times, I haven't trialed it enough.



True enough.

That's what it took for me to establish a Daphne odora at my place. It wasn't until years after that I learned that I needed to make sure it was getting sun, while being out of the wind. It was the winds, winter & summer, that were dessicating them. With it adequately sheltered next to the back door, I've had to prune it back and tie it back, it's so happy.

It took me that many starts (at least) to figure out what I needed to do to assure that I'd have dephinium come back the following year. Fertilize, fertilize, fertilize.

[livius drusus]

Okay it rained like crazy last night so all the plantz0rz are currently looking very green and happy in moist, almost black soil. My plan is not to water the rosemary again until the soil is completely dry, which might take days so I'll doubtless be totally paranoid about it.

P.S. - The last time I had oregano it was a crawling varietal and not terribly lush. This vertical habit one I've got now grows like kudzu. It has to have put on at least two inches of height this week, if not more.

[godfry n. glad]

P.S. - The last time I had oregano it was a crawling varietal and not terribly lush. This vertical habit one I've got now grows like kudzu. It has to have put on at least two inches of height this week, if not more.

Get out the oregano recipes. Prune it. Use it. Bush it out.

(This has been an uninformed opinion. To be on the safe side, wait until somebody who knows about growing herbs can give you trustworthy information.)

[livius drusus]

The Bountiful Container (http://www.amazon.com/McGee-Stuckeys-Bountiful-Container-Vegetables/dp/0761116230/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241283654&sr=8-1) ladies agree with you. :yup:

[TheCat]

Have you tried using a non-porous pot? I've never had much success with plants in terracotta containers - I reckon it's because the moisture/heat can transfer in and out of the pot too easily

[livius drusus]

I believe the rosemary before this one was in a plastic pot. It died like all the others, but I don't think the pot was the problem so much as my hapless bumbling. All my other terracotta guys have done very well, though. Hopefully that porousness will help keep my rosemary's feet dry. :prayer:

[godfry n. glad]

The Bountiful Container (http://www.amazon.com/McGee-Stuckeys-Bountiful-Container-Vegetables/dp/0761116230/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241283654&sr=8-1) ladies agree with you. :yup:

Looks like a good source...it may be in my future.

I was guessing based upon knowing that an herb like rosemary, being a woody shrub, would respond like a tree to stub-cutting on the limbs: create four to eight new limbs off the stub. Normally, you'd need to cut down further to assure that all the new growth is not extended way out on a small weak limb, as it will bend, twist and possibly break. I have learned to do an annual prune down to just above the prior year's annual prune, always leaving a few leaves. Then when it starts producing and I want trimmings, I snip what I need, not really worrying about where once new growth is flourishing. To control my shape, I cut an entire limb back to the limb trunk it grows from...this will reduce the number new limbs produced, if not prevent any new in that area of the shrub.

Mine, of course, is planted in the ground, rather than a pot. But we're talking about once it is established....beyond one year. My rosemary at the base of the front steps is....twelve years old and has been moved once.

[livius drusus]

P-dub recommended that book to me. It has become my primary reference.

I don't think I'll have to worry about pruning for a while yet. Right now it's not even woodsy yet, just a handful of young branches growing out of the soil.

So it's been raining pretty much all weekend. Every day I've emptied out the saucers underneath the pots (yesterday I did it twice), but other than that, I've just let them soak it all in. It amazes how much these little container plants love rain. They just explode with greenness and new growth.

It's weird to me, because you have to be quite parsimonious when you're hand-watering. It's not like you're supposed to soak these Mediterranean herbs in water every day, twice a day. If I watered the rosemary as much as the rain has over the past 3 days, it would die an ignominious death, I'm sure. And yet, right now the rosemary is bursting with hearty good health, more so than when I got it. What is it about the rain that they love so much?

[ceptimus]

When you water them, is the water different from rainwater in some way? Harder? Colder? Chlorinated?

[livius drusus]

I use filtered water because the tap water is definitely chlorinated. It's neither hard nor particularly soft. Rain water is definitely soft and I'm sure there are all kinds of natural mineral goodies in there that aren't in the drinking water.

Still, even if I had a rain catchment system (which I will someday) and used only rain water in my watering can, I don't think my plants would react well to me dousing them with the same amount they've gotten over the past few days.

Maybe it's just the slow soak factor that makes it absorb gradually instead of flooding. I don't know, though, because it was seriously dumping buckets for a while there. :shrug:

[godfry n. glad]

Hand watering can be treacherous. If the waterer does a 'once over lightly' all the time, they could well do in a number of different plants come hot weather. The way it was described to me was that 'light watering' results in only the surface layer of soil being wetted. This means that the roots, over time, will focus themselves primarily in or near that surface layer, in order to uptake water. Then comes the summer heat and if the 'light watering' is forgotten, put off, or just not done, sometimes for just short periods, too, the plants die. Most of the plants roots are up close to the surface and can much more easily be dried out by a heat wave, killing the plant.

The recommendation I got was 'deep water less often'. I tried to water until I have standing water at the surface...then I don't water again for at least a week.

Of course, pots dry out much more easily than in-ground plants. Most of mine are in-ground for exactly that reason. I am such a space cadet about pot watering. Like last year...I lost my potted penstamen.

[livius drusus]

More rain today, and that means more bushy, exuberant plantz0rz. :wriggle:

[Plant Woman]

:bliss:

[godfry n. glad]

More rain today, and that means more bushy, exuberant plantz0rz. :wriggle:

Youse guys were having an extended drought last year, weren't you? I take it that is over, but has the water situation returned to 'normal'?

[livius drusus]

Not quite normal, but closer than it's been in years. I believe the main resevoir is now 2" under its 2005 level, which is damn good considering that last year they were tapping the sludge. We're one soggy summer away from catching up. :crossed:

[cappuccino]

Due to the huge volume of rain the past few days, I'm sorry to report that my rosemary snipping has died :sadcheer:

But the vegetable garden is doing awesome.

[livius drusus]

I was guessing based upon knowing that an herb like rosemary, being a woody shrub, would respond like a tree to stub-cutting on the limbs: create four to eight new limbs off the stub. Normally, you'd need to cut down further to assure that all the new growth is not extended way out on a small weak limb, as it will bend, twist and possibly break.
I've been trimming the ends of the sprigs for kitchen use and I'm beginning to see this effect. I didn't expect it to happen when I just took a couple of inches off the top of each branchlet, but there are definitely two branches splitting off the from the ends I've trimmed.

The plant is still small, but it's bushing out wonderfully. I'm wondering if I should trim back closer to the trunk, though, to avoid long-term weakness in the branches.

[godfry n. glad]

I was guessing based upon knowing that an herb like rosemary, being a woody shrub, would respond like a tree to stub-cutting on the limbs: create four to eight new limbs off the stub. Normally, you'd need to cut down further to assure that all the new growth is not extended way out on a small weak limb, as it will bend, twist and possibly break.
I've been trimming the ends of the sprigs for kitchen use and I'm beginning to see this effect. I didn't expect it to happen when I just took a couple of inches off the top of each branchlet, but there are definitely two branches splitting off the from the ends I've trimmed.

The plant is still small, but it's bushing out wonderfully. I'm wondering if I should trim back closer to the trunk, though, to avoid long-term weakness in the branches.

Harder pruning at some point is in order...exactly to prevent weakening the lower limbs. I was told that when doing the major annual prune (which I'm still not quite sure when it is supposed to happen) to cut down to the point where only 2-4 of the needle-like leaves remain on each stem. That's actually quite far down the plant.

I did that one year and thought I'd killed it. It went moribund and looked dead. Thankfully, I didn't pull it up, and the following spring, it put out new limb buds and started all over again. Amazing stuff, actually.

[livius drusus]

Right, right, annual prune. Okay, I'll keep going as is for now, maybe feeling free to snip longer pieces for cooking. Then I'll do the drastic cut-back at a future time to be determined. :thankee:

[livius drusus]

Update: my rosemary is thriving. The plant is now at least 4 times the size it was when I planted it. The leaves are dense, dark green, firm in structure but still soft to the touch, as opposed to crispy, floppy, brown or yellow like my past attempts.

In hindsight, I think my mistake was to underestimate the amount of water they needed in a clay pot out in the full heat and sun. They just bake out there. It's not at all like rosemary in the ground. I've watered the rosemary just a shade less than the basil et al, but definitely every day, even twice a day when it's 90:degrees: plus.

I just look for any wilting or softening of the bottle brush branches. That's the canary in the coal mine. If it loses that happy martinet posture, it needs water.

[godfry n. glad]

By Jove....I think she's got it!

Gratz.

Now. Remember, an established plant and a struggling plant differ in their demands.

Mine...Still needs a prune. Now, more than ever.

[Plant Woman]

Update: my rosemary is thriving. The plant is now at least 4 times the size it was when I planted it. The leaves are dense, dark green, firm in structure but still soft to the touch, as opposed to crispy, floppy, brown or yellow like my past attempts.

:cheer:

It sounds like you have the formula for success down pat. Here in the NW the issues you face wouldn't be an issue here, we rarely reach those temps during the summer.

[livius drusus]

Shocking news from the plant sitter (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=728215#post728215): the rosemary is far thirstier than I imagined.

[godfry n. glad]

I'm about to prune...(yeah, you've heard that before...)

Here's those pix I promised of the 'before':

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj53/wellingtonkd/waterloopix/P1070168.jpg
from the public sidewalk

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj53/wellingtonkd/waterloopix/P1070164.jpg
from my front porch

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj53/wellingtonkd/waterloopix/P1070167.jpg
closer from above

[Corona688]

I was guessing based upon knowing that an herb like rosemary, being a woody shrub, would respond like a tree to stub-cutting on the limbs: create four to eight new limbs off the stub. Normally, you'd need to cut down further to assure that all the new growth is not extended way out on a small weak limb, as it will bend, twist and possibly break. So that's why my peppers kept doing that(long, weak limbs). Interesting.

[Ensign Steve]

Shocking news from the plant sitter (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=728215#post728215): the rosemary is far thirstier than I imagined.

So the babysitter is a better parent than the mom? :sadno:

[livius drusus]

:sadyup:

[godfry n. glad]

Pruned!

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj53/wellingtonkd/waterloopix/P1070244.jpg

[livius drusus]

An ominous flashback:

Yup. It's hot, iow, except for some freakishly cold snaps now and again. But really my concern is keeping it alive over the summer. If I have to decide whether to bring it indoors at first frost, that will already be a major success for me.

It's the cold snaps that could do it in, if you get it through to winter. Hey, I'm an optimist, I believe you can keep it going until then.

You could keep it outside then all winter and bring it in whenever you get the cold snaps then take it right back out so it doesn't get used to a warm room. That means however you will have to pay attention to the weather every day. I do that for a couple of plants and have a weather report for my area delivered daily in my email.

Welcome back to the present. For those of you not glued to the weather thread, this winter we had not just a first frost, but a full-on Arctic freeze that seemed to never end. I'm pleased to report that my rosemary did indeed survive the summer and fall. Did it survive the Narnia-like endless winter, you ask? The answer is a resounding yes.

When Jadis first cast her evil spell, the rosemary and all the other herbs came indoors. They stayed in the guest room where there is a nice big window, but no direct sun whatsoever. There they remained for 2 weeks while even during the day it was below freezing so they couldn't go outside to get a wee drappie of sunlight.

The tarragon died, the chives shriveled, the old oregano growth turned a sort of burgundy color, the sage stopped growing and all except the leaves at the very end of branches dried off. The parsley and rosemary, otoh, happily kept growing like it was no thing.

I expected the rosemary at least to go to sleep, but nope, it's still growing. Not as quickly as in the rainy summer, but enough so I could easily keep snipping for kitchen use.

Now that the long national frigid nightmare is over (inshallah), all the babies are back outside. I cut the tarragon back to the soil only to find 2 baby shoots. I pulled out the shriveled chive straw to reveal a small but happy cluster of shoots in the middle. I cut the oregano entirely back leaving only the 4 or 5 branches that had fresh green leaves. I'ma wait and see with the sage, but I suspect I'll cut it back all the way too because it's leggy and unattractive right now, so even if the leaves on the ends of branches do begin to grow again, it's probably best that they start again from lower down.

The rosemary is the shining star of the group. It survived an alternately baking hot and soaking wet summer plus a shockingly freezing winter without skipping a beat. It's full, fragrant and handsome and I couldn't be more delighted.

[Ensign Steve]

SHUT! UP!
:nowai:

Go babies go! :cheer:

[livius drusus]

AINORITE?! Who'da thunk it.

[Ensign Steve]

Head's up, I'm going to start a garden thread sometime this spring. I've got over 3/4 of an acre and no idea what to do with it. There will be a herb garden in there somewhere, which I'm less worried about than flowers because I have more experience with that. Do deer come and eat your herbs? Mom says I can't grow veggies until I get a fence or the deer will eat them.

[livius drusus]

There are no deer intown that I've seen. My herbs are in pots on the deck, though, so even if there were deerses around they probably wouldn't be quite that bold. From what I understand, they're not big fans of strong-scented herbs like sage, so maybe a border?

Before spring has sprung, you might want to get your soil analyzed. You can get a kit in the mail (http://aesl.ces.uga.edu/soil/Georgia.htm) or, since you guys loiter around UGA anyways, you can probably take it straight to the College of Agricultural & Environmental Sciences without needing to find an Extension Office.

Yays new garden thread! :hyper:

[Ensign Steve]

Yeah I've spent the winter looking on line for how to grow shit in red clay. :lol:

[Qingdai]

Herbs do well in poor soil with a bit of amending, they will do very well. They also over winter well, and it's true deer avoid them.

My rosemary, sage did very well through the freezing we had. The rosemary is still growing. Tarragon usually dies back in the winter and comes shooting back taking over large clumps of land, that's how I came to understand why the French put tarragon in everything.

Oregano and mint are also known for dying off in the winter only to come back revived in the spring.

My Italian parsley and cabbage also made it through the killing freezing. They look sad, but I suspect they will recover in early spring.

[godfry n. glad]

My herb pot looks a lot worse for wear right now. The chooks have not resisted their urges to snip at it....

[livius drusus]

Yeah I've spent the winter looking on line for how to grow shit in red clay. :lol:
Oh growing shit is the easy part. First you have to figure out how to actually budge that clay. Have you tried to take a shovel to it? I swear to god you need one of those wires with the wooden handles like in elementary school ashtray-making art class to cut out chunks of it.

It is completely immovable until it rains. For real real. Not for play play.

The soil analysis is also to be sure there's nothing shady in there, like metals or poisons from construction. If you're growing food, that stuff matters a lot.

[Qingdai]

We have heavy clay soil too, it takes a lot of compost and some sand to make it more workable. I used a heavy pick this last summer when it was dry. Still was a bitch to dig.

[viscousmemories]

One of my co-workers told me he has a rosemary bush growing in front of his house, and that I could too! Apparently it lives year round and requires no maintenance. Huzzah!

[Ymir's blood]

How did the cilantro plant fare in the cold weather?

[BrotherMan]

Sadly, the cilantro didn't survive after a malicious throwing in the garbage incident. Tragic, really.

[Plant Woman]

Head's up, I'm going to start a garden thread sometime this spring. I've got over 3/4 of an acre and no idea what to do with it. There will be a herb garden in there somewhere, which I'm less worried about than flowers because I have more experience with that. Do deer come and eat your herbs? Mom says I can't grow veggies until I get a fence or the deer will eat them.

Most herbs are deer proof, their aromatic qualities make deer turn up their noses to them.

You could try to turn your cats into deer hunters!

[Plant Woman]

One of my co-workers told me he has a rosemary bush growing in front of his house, and that I could too! Apparently it lives year round and requires no maintenance. Huzzah!

You will want to keep it well watered while it establishes itself for the first year.

[Plant Woman]

We have heavy clay soil too, it takes a lot of compost and some sand to make it more workable. I used a heavy pick this last summer when it was dry. Still was a bitch to dig.

I refuse to dig anymore, my back is just not up to the challenge. I like to remove sod, than pile oncompost, manure, leaves and any other amendments I can get my hands on and let the earthworms do the work of tilling the soil. Keep working the amendments in and you will find the soil becomes a wonderful crumbly loam in a few year. Do this now and by spring you should have some great soil to work with.

[Ensign Steve]

Head's up, I'm going to start a garden thread sometime this spring. I've got over 3/4 of an acre and no idea what to do with it. There will be a herb garden in there somewhere, which I'm less worried about than flowers because I have more experience with that. Do deer come and eat your herbs? Mom says I can't grow veggies until I get a fence or the deer will eat them.

Most herbs are deer proof, their aromatic qualities make deer turn up their noses to them.

You could try to turn your cats into deer hunters!

My coworker grows vegetables and she got a dog to keep the deer away, but it didn't take long before the deer and the dog made friends. Now the dog thinks it's a great game to play in the yard with the deer while it eats up all the veggies, and the lady is like, "I still have deer and now I'm strapped with this fucking dog!" :aww:

I think my retarded scaredy cats would just be frightened. :qcat:

[Plant Woman]

Head's up, I'm going to start a garden thread sometime this spring. I've got over 3/4 of an acre and no idea what to do with it. There will be a herb garden in there somewhere, which I'm less worried about than flowers because I have more experience with that. Do deer come and eat your herbs? Mom says I can't grow veggies until I get a fence or the deer will eat them.

Most herbs are deer proof, their aromatic qualities make deer turn up their noses to them.

You could try to turn your cats into deer hunters!

My coworker grows vegetables and she got a dog to keep the deer away, but it didn't take long before the deer and the dog made friends. Now the dog thinks it's a great game to play in the yard with the deer while it eats up all the veggies, and the lady is like, "I still have deer and now I'm strapped with this fucking dog!" :aww:

I think my retarded scaredy cats would just be frightened. :qcat:

:lol:

I thought of deer hunting cats because of this video, around 59 seconds is where it happens.

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[Qingdai]

The filbert growers used a few non-toxic, non-lethal methods of deer discouragement. Electric fence (not too expensive), deer cannon (I bet that'd be fun! :piecannon:) and my personal cheap favorite, putting permeable bags of human hair on the young trees.

[Ymir's blood]

Shooting a deer out of a cannon is non-lethal?

Step away from the pie!
:police:

[Qingdai]

It's just a cannon that makes a lot of noise to scare off the deer. Probably not anything you want to try in a non-agricultural setting. Unless you really hate your neighbors. Say! You should put one near the nosy neighbor!

[Plant Woman]

The scarecrow sprinkler is pretty effective. It's hooked up to a hose and has a motion sensor. When the deer steps in front of it, it blasts out water at its victim. However, you have to be careful and not step within range or you will find yourself soaked. It costs about 80 dollars or so, but it is worth the investment.

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[Ymir's blood]

It's just a cannon that makes a lot of noise to scare off the deer. Probably not anything you want to try in a non-agricultural setting. Unless you really hate your neighbors. Say! You should put one near the nosy neighbor!
Oh, ok. :sadcheer:

Back in the early Nineties, there was an ad for a product called the 'ratapult'. Apparently it was a mousetrap type device that instead of using the spring to break the rodent's back, catapulted them through the air into a collection device (bucket or somesuch). I can't remember where I saw it, but the write up included the phrase, 'vaulting vermin' which provided us with many laughs.

[viscousmemories]

That's awesome.

[Dingfod]

The filbert growers used a few non-toxic, non-lethal methods of deer discouragement. Electric fence (not too expensive), deer cannon (I bet that'd be fun! :piecannon:) and my personal cheap favorite, putting permeable bags of human hair on the young trees.Zoos are selling zoo manure for to raise some funds, it functions as pest deterrent and fertilizer.

[Corona688]

Back in the early Nineties, there was an ad for a product called the 'ratapult'. Apparently it was a mousetrap type device that instead of using the spring to break the rodent's back, catapulted them through the air into a collection device (bucket or somesuch). I can't remember where I saw it, but the write up included the phrase, 'vaulting vermin' which provided us with many laughs. Google strikes again. The actual article is first for "vaulting vermin" but :ffshake: is a solid third.

[Ymir's blood]

:ff: seems to be first now. Here's a link (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=886&dat=19920228&id=xCcOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vX0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=5169,5776387) to image of the article.

[Cliche Guevara]

It's my favourite herb for baked chicken.

And roast lamb!

Good luck with growing the rosemary, liv. I don't need to grow any, because so many people have overgrown rosemary bushes (even council land has rosemary bushes) that I just grab a few sweet new branches when I need them. No one seems to mind, and whenever I see someone in their yard with rosemary as their hedge and I ask them if I can have some, they're all like "go for it! saves me trimming the damned thing!" :yum:

[godfry n. glad]

You should see the outskirts of west Jeruslam...It is a literal weed in the dry highlands around the city.

My rosemary gets pruned back each year. It's battling for light space with a cistus I planted too close years back. I'm content with that...my problem is the damned grass, not the relatively contained rosemary.

[viscousmemories]

I just discovered a couple rosemary bushes in my backyard.

[livius drusus]

Yes, yes, everybody brag about your easy-does-it, self-tending, there-whenever-you-need-it rosemary. I had to work for mine, dammit. :glare:

[Ymir's blood]

OMG, there's a giant rosemary staring in my window, scratching on the glass! :rughide:

[Pinecone]

So there you go liv! You make teeny tiny catapults and flick your aphids off onto others smug self-tending rosemarys. :muahaha:

We being a treasure trove of helpful advice have solved all your hortycultchy problems. :pleased:

[godfry n. glad]

:glare:

You keep your rosemary's crabs in it's own branch crotches. It probably picked them up hanging around some indoor plant, most likely when it was 'hiking the Appalachian Trail', or somesuch.