Seizure Inducing Avatars

[Corona688]

I'm seeing seizure-inducing flashing animated once all over the place. I had to disable avatars(a feature I'm now grateful this board has.). What happened to the cool avatars they replaced? Did someone forget to pay the taste bill? :fuming:

[Crumb]

You can disable avatars for certain individuals instead of everyone all at once. Somehow.

[viscousmemories]

There's a fair amount of discussion on the subject in this thread (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1946).

FYI: You can disable an individual member's avatar by clicking on their username in a post, and selecting "Hide [username's] avatar". You can then see a list of hidden avatars if you go to Member Options --> Edit Custom Filters.

As for taste... I like animated avatars, personally. The only one I'd call seizure-inducing is xouper's, and fortunately I don't have to see that one anymore. :slide:

[Corona688]

FYI: You can disable an individual member's avatar by clicking on their username in a post, and selecting "Hide [username's] avatar". You can then see a list of hidden avatars if you go to Member Options --> Edit Custom Filters.

As for taste... I like animated avatars, personally. The only one I'd call seizure-inducing is xouper's, and fortunately I don't have to see that one anymore. :slide: Oh I agree, animated avatars can be nice. I especially liked that christmas one with the reindeer. It's the pointless rapid-full-frame-changing ones that bother me, of which I've found at least three here. And thanks for the tip.

[livius drusus]

Hey cool! You liked my Christmas avatar. I'm flattered. :)

[viscousmemories]

Oh I agree, animated avatars can be nice. I especially liked that christmas one with the reindeer. It's the pointless rapid-full-frame-changing ones that bother me, of which I've found at least three here.
Well pointless is obviously a subjective opinion, but I'm surprised to realize that 'rapid' appears to be somewhat subjective as well. I mean, I think Ex-Zombie's new avatar is the most rapidly changing avatar next to xouper's, and to me it doesn't even come close to being accurately described as "seizure-inducing". For example I can read one of his posts easily without a second thought to his avatar, whereas I was completely distracted by xouper's.

I'm not saying you're a freak or anything either. Xouper (and probably others) clearly feel the same as you do about certain animations. I wonder if there have been some studies around this subject...

And thanks for the tip.
Glad to help. :)

[Skep]

FYI: You can disable an individual member's avatar by clicking on their username in a post, and selecting "Hide [username's] avatar". You can then see a list of hidden avatars if you go to Member Options --> Edit Custom Filters.
Wouldn't it be easier on everyone to just, like, ban xouper?

[livius drusus]

Yeah! Or even easier: we could just ban everyone. End of problem.

[viscousmemories]

Now, now. Let's not get ban happy. At least give us some time to think up a rule we can charge him with breaking. Sheesh.

[Beth]

AW. Should I take my avatar and hide? :couch:

[Skep]

Yeah! Or even easier: we could just ban everyone. End of problem.
See how easy it is if we just work together?

[Skep]

Now, now. Let's not get ban happy. At least give us some time to think up a rule we can charge him with breaking. Sheesh.
JREF didn't need no rule to ban xouper. We don't need no steenkin' rules.

[viscousmemories]

JREF didn't need no rule to ban xouper. We don't need no steenkin' rules.
Yeah but if we're gonna be like JREF we'll have to wait until six months after he stops posting here to ban him. Kinda defeats the purpose, no?

[Skep]

JREF didn't need no rule to ban xouper. We don't need no steenkin' rules.
Yeah but if we're gonna be like JREF we'll have to wait until six months after he stops posting here to ban him. Kinda defeats the purpose, no?
Yeah, I forgot about that. Ban me instead.

[Ex-zombie]

Since I am one of the subjects of this hatred why don't you just ban me?

[viscousmemories]

Since I am one of the subjects of this hatred why don't you just ban me?
Okay, done. If anyone sees another post from Ex-zombie, it's an imposter.

[livius drusus]

I can't do that, Ex-zombie. You say nice things about me too often. If we start banning the people who so lovingly apply tongue and lip to our butts, then what's the point of running a forum at all?

[CARLA]

What happened to EX-ZOMBIES way cool AVATAR.. :sadcheer:

[Beth]

Dangit, I liked it alot.

[CARLA]

:bow: BETH,

Your's is very cool as well..good job.. :yup: :yup:

I can even get use to XOUPER'S :D

[Beth]

:bow: BETH,

Your's is very cool as well..good job.. :yup: :yup:

I can even get use to XOUPER'S :DThank you, this was Sonnet's handiwork. She kindly made this creation for me. :) I like it, specially because it was such a nice thing. EZ, hold out against the conspiracy of the avatar conformists!

Xoupers I have on ignore, it makes me very sick to look at, it is very funny, but triggers violent headaches.

[godfry n. glad]

Being a man of impeccable philistine taste, I think Beth's cycles a little too fast, but I like the included pieces. XZ's cycles way too fast and I find it a bit annoying because of that...and again, I like all the pieces included. Xouper's is positivily annoying. That's the avatart that induces seizures. It's not just the image change speed, it's the alternating from the neon pink to the black & white. The two together were inducing headaches. I was just scrolling the text up so that it was hidden in the browser frame when I read Xoup's stuff.

Then. I. Found. <Esc> Thank you Crumb!

I thought I was born again. I was at peace. I could still see Big Al's tongue, but it now amused, rather than annoyed, me.

I love the selective keys...it allows the reader to filter what they will.

Somebody mentioned an "annoying critic" filter. I missed that somewhere. That could come in handy.

:Calvin:

[Sonnet]

You do realize that these images cycle at the same rate of any television commercial - or in ex-zombie's case, music video? You're used to seeing pictures move this quickly all the time. If they give you seizures, you should see a doctor.

Try this: just think of moving avatars as tiny little television sets that tell you stories about that poster. Will that make you feel better? :pat:

It simply amazes me what people will actually take the time to complain about - much like Vonnegut's analogy about hostility toward novels being akin to donning full armor to attack a hot-fudge sundae. It always makes me wonder what else these people go around criticizing.

Many of these same people would be the first to tell someone from the Moral Majority to change the damn channel if they don't like what they're watching.

Two words: disable avatar. So ask yourself - is it about not seeing moving avatars, or making it so no one can HAVE moving avatars and making them feel bad about it if they do?

[Beth]

^^What Sonnet said^^

[Sonnet]

Did someone forget to pay the taste bill? :fuming:


I wouldn't be surprised; too many people have abused it, confusing their taste with other people's obligation and forgetting that taste varies with individuals, so not sharing yours doesn't mean not having any.

:fuming: indeed.

[Ensign Steve]

Did someone forget to pay the taste bill? :fuming:


I wouldn't be surprised; too many people have abused it, confusing their taste with other people's obligation and forgetting that taste varies with individuals, so not sharing yours doesn't mean not having any.

:fuming: indeed.

Sonnet, it looks like you are the one who is forgetting that taste varies with individuals. All xouper did was to express that he finds moving avatars annoying. He did so in a creative and funny way. What is making you so angry? That he expressed his opinion? That he did it in a creative and funny way? Or that his opinion differs from yours?

[Corona688]

Honestly, I wouldn't have made this thread if I had known I could disable individual avatars instead of just all of them. I figured I had to toss all of the ones I liked along with those I find distracting; that is what had me ticked, not the idea of someone having different preferences than me.

I also figured figured not mentioning anyone by name would prevent flames, but apparently the "offenders" all know who they are :P So, sorry.

If you're curious, it's not the animated-ness of the avatars that disturbs me, it's the abruptness. A smooth animation with a high frame rate is less bothersome than something that changes from black to white every 3 seconds. Ergo, whenever beth's av switches to a different frame my videogame-and-movies-trained conciousness spots it immediately and moves my eyes to it. A transition effect might alleviate this if anyone thinks it's a big enough deal to bother.

[Sonnet]

Sonnet, it looks like you are the one who is forgetting that taste varies with individuals. All xouper did was to express that he finds moving avatars annoying. He did so in a creative and funny way. What is making you so angry? That he expressed his opinion? That he did it in a creative and funny way? Or that his opinion differs from yours?

Actually, I just addressed that in the original thread.

It's not the opinion, it's the delivery. There's a big difference between letting me know that a smoother transition might be easier for those people with his particular visual conditioning and making a crack about taste. I assume you can see the difference. One is designed to help, the other is... not.

[Ensign Steve]

Was this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=47592&postcount=112) designed to help? Because it reads just downright bitchy to me. I reads like you are hurt that somebody didn't immediately fall in love with your work, so you have taken it upon yourself to psycho-analyze that person. If somebody doesn't immediately fall down and go ga-ga over your beee-you-tee-ful avatars, something must be wrong with them, right? Faced with that post, and all its baseless accusations and extreme overreaction to his joke, I do not fault xouper his reaction one bit.

I hope I'm wrong.

[Corona688]

Actually, I just addressed that in the original thread.

It's not the opinion, it's the delivery. There's a big difference between letting me know that a smoother transition might be easier for those people with his particular visual conditioning and making a crack about taste. I assume you can see the difference. One is designed to help, the other is... not. I have to say you're awful quick to take offense. Until my very last post I mentioned no names, and I don't object to all animated avatars, just the distracting ones.

[Sonnet]

Was this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=47592&postcount=112) designed to help? Because it reads just downright bitchy to me.

Fair enough.

I reads like you are hurt that somebody didn't immediately fall in love with your work, so you have taken it upon yourself to psycho-analyze that person. If somebody doesn't immediately fall down and go ga-ga over your beee-you-tee-ful avatars, something must be wrong with them, right?

Sorry it reads that way to you. I thought I was clear later on about what the problem really had been, but maybe you haven't incorporated that new information yet. If you have, then I don't know what to tell you.

Faced with that post, and all its baseless accusations and extreme overreaction to his joke, I do not fault xouper his reaction one bit.


Neither do I; far be it from me to deny people their right to strong opinions or reactions. You might have noticed that I took the time later to reply, addressing his points as if they were valid, for just that reason.

I hope I'm wrong.


Well, sometimes hope pays off, which is why people keep doing it.

[viscousmemories]

I reads like you are hurt that somebody didn't immediately fall in love with your work, so you have taken it upon yourself to psycho-analyze that person.
I honestly don't see where you're getting that at all, JD. Bitchy and psychoanalytical I'll give ya. But I understood it in the context of her being pissed about xouper's flashing avatar. I don't see where people's general opinion of her artwork comes in.

Xouper's reaction didn't surprise me a lot either, but then neither did Sonnet's post. And because I know better, I'm not passing judgement either way. I suspected it was primarily a misunderstanding of intent and that's been confirmed. I hope we can minimize the damage from it somehow.

[viscousmemories]

I have to say you're awful quick to take offense. Until my very last post I mentioned no names, and I don't object to all animated avatars, just the distracting ones.
Sonnet created three new animated avatars for people here in the last 24 hours. It's not really surprising to me that she would interpret criticism of animated avatars in general at this point in time as referring to hers.

[Sonnet]

I have to say you're awful quick to take offense. Until my very last post I mentioned no names, and I don't object to all animated avatars, just the distracting ones.

It's always interesting to me, being someone who also considers myself to be a blunt, call-'em-like-I-see-'em sort, that occasionally people who think of themselves as truthful and unafraid to offend are surprised and upset when they actually do. What you said was essentially innocuous but certainly not meant kindly (one needs look no further than the title of the thread), and I countered with my own opinion. That's how it goes, isn't it?

To be genuinely blunt is to be unwaveringly willing to bear responsibility for the effect, both intended and unexpected, of the things one says.

[Corona688]

It's always interesting to me, being someone who also considers myself to be a blunt, call-'em-like-I-see-'em sort, that occasionally people who think of themselves as truthful and unafraid to offend are surprised and upset when they actually do. What you said was essentially innocuous but certainly not meant kindly (one needs look no further than the title of the thread), and I countered with my own opinion. That's how it goes, isn't it?
Which describes you perhaps but not me. Try a different insult please.

Besides which, I already apologized yet you still continue your tirade.

[Sonnet]

Which describes you perhaps but not me. Try a different insult please.

Well, if this is going to degenerate to exchanges like this, I don't see any reason to go on about it, do you?

I've offered to try to see your point, but if 'reply' and 'tirade' are synonymous to you I don't think you're quite up to reciprocating.

[Corona688]

I've offered to try to see your point, but if 'reply' and 'tirade' are synonymous to you I don't think you're quite up to reciprocating.

It's always interesting to me, being someone who also considers myself to be a blunt, call-'em-like-I-see-'em sort, that occasionally people who think of themselves as truthful and unafraid to offend are surprised and upset when they actually do. What you said was essentially innocuous but certainly not meant kindly (one needs look no further than the title of the thread), and I countered with my own opinion. That's how it goes, isn't it?

To be genuinely blunt is to be unwaveringly willing to bear responsibility for the effect, both intended and unexpected, of the things one says.
I wouldn't be surprised; too many people have abused it, confusing their taste with other people's obligation and forgetting that taste varies with individuals, so not sharing yours doesn't mean not having any.

:fuming: indeed.

I'm sorry, but I can't find anything about an offer to see things from my point of view in any of your posts to me. You've called me tasteless and irresponsible, but you haven't made any offer. How about you do so?

[Sonnet]

I'm sorry, but I can't find anything about an offer to see things from my point of view in any of your posts to me. You've called me tasteless and irresponsible, but you haven't made any offer. How about you do so?

Wait. I'm genuinely confused. I've called you tasteless? The only reference to taste here is in your original post, in which you intimated that somehow taste had gone out the window with the recent introduction of moving avatars, and my consequent exceptions to your statement. The only thing I took issue with was the fact that you could have told me what was bothering you without insulting my work, which is what you did. If there are still those who can't see the vast and glaring difference between not liking to have one's efforts insulted and being petulant when everyone doesn't go wild with admiration, I have no way of putting this in perspective for you.

Corona, what am I missing here?

[xouper]

I hadn't seen this thread until just now, in case anyone thought I might have been ignoring it.

For the record, I think Sonnet shows great skill and creativity in the avatars she's created. That was never an issue for me.

My personal tastes, however, do not include rapidly changing avatars. While that style may be appropriate for MTV, here on a forum where I am trying to read someone's post, they are a distraction (to me, anyway). I have all animated avatars turned off. It has nothing to do with not liking their avatars, and everything to do with removing an annoying distraction while I'm trying to read.

In any case, I have removed all traces of my flashing avatar from the forum, including the gallery.

[Corona688]

I'm sorry, but I can't find anything about an offer to see things from my point of view in any of your posts to me. You've called me tasteless and irresponsible, but you haven't made any offer. How about you do so?Wait. I'm genuinely confused. I've called you tasteless? The only reference to taste here is in your original post, in which you intimated that somehow taste had gone out the window with the recent introduction of moving avatars We've had moving avatars for ages and ages, it's the recent ones like xouper's experiment that I was objecting to. And your response to this was to assume that I was targeting you -- in fact I was not -- and go on a full-out defensive offensive in painting me as being tasteless for calling some avs tasteless.and my consequent exceptions to your statement. The only thing I took issue with was the fact that you could have told me what was bothering you without insulting my work I never insulted your work. I think Beth's av could use a graceful transition. That's the only place I ever mentioned your work. Get your hackles down, then maybye we can have a reasonable discussion.

[xouper]

There's no question that my flashing avatar was totally tasteless. :D

I created the most annoying one I could think of at the time and stay within the filesize limit. It was intended to be both funny and make a point, sort of a reductio ad absurdum, if you will.

[Dingfod]

There's no question that my flashing avatar was totally tasteless. :DAw geez, I missed it.

[xouper]

xouper: There's no question that my flashing avatar was totally tasteless. :D

warrenly: Aw geez, I missed it.
Peek if you must. :)

http://www.xoup.net/img/avatareinsteinflashingx.gif

Don't say I didn't warn ya. :)


(I strongly advise Beth not to click the button. Seriously. I don't want to get falsely accused again for deliberately trying to cause her any physical harm.)

[Ensign Steve]

:roflmao: Sue me, but I love it. It makes techno music play in my head.

:club:

[Dingfod]

xouper: There's no question that my flashing avatar was totally tasteless. :D

warrenly: Aw geez, I missed it.
Peek if you must. :)

http://www.xoup.net/img/avatareinsteinflashingx.gif

Don't say I didn't warn ya. :)Okay, that is bad, seizure inducing, even. Thanks for taking that down because I might have been induced to disable avatars.

[xouper]

warrenly: Okay, that is bad, seizure inducing, even. Thanks for taking that down because I might have been induced to disable avatars.
That was essentially my point. Once we agree that there is a line that can be crossed regarding what constitutes an annoying avatar, then the quibble becomes where to draw that line. My point is that each person draws the line differently. When does one person's "fun" interfere with another person's enjoyment of the forum? This is why we have the option to turn off individual avatars.

Another question that got raised is when is it acceptable to announce you have someone's avatar on ignore? For some, the answer appears to be never, that you should just keep your mouth shut to avoid offending anyone or raining on their fun. I confess I do not necessarily agree with that position. But hey, what do I know, I'm just some asshole who posts on a forum.

[xouper]

On a related note, have there been any complaints about certain seizure-inducing smileys on this forum? For example:

:shocking:

(I strongly advise Beth not to click the button. Seriously. I don't want to get falsely accused again for deliberately trying to cause her any physical harm.)

[Legs]

It's the pointless rapid-full-frame-changing ones that bother me, of which I've found at least three here. And thanks for the tip.

Do you like my legs? :P

[Beth]

Gosh, I'm sorry I mentioned the migrane. I'm not the only person who has this trigger. It was my fault for staring at the avatar, not xouper's. I know what triggers me. I even get triggered when I drive through the shadows of tree limbs. It'll be shady and then sunlight, shady then sunlight, and so on. The effect is a strobe effect and induces migrane and vomiting. So, honestly, it was my fault; I just thought the av was so funny that I stared.

[xouper]

Beth: Gosh, I'm sorry I mentioned the migrane. I'm not the only person who has this trigger.
No need to apologize. Really. In my opinion, you should be able to say how things make you feel on this forum. It seems not everyone agrees with that opinion, but I don't know what else I can say except thanks for letting me know. I removed my avatar from the gallery as a courtesy to you because I value your participation here.


I'm still waiting for Sonnet to retract her accusation that I deliberately tried to cause you physical harm by putting up that flashing avatar.

[Ensign Steve]

On a related note, have there been any complaints about certain seizure-inducing smileys on this forum? For example:

:shocking:

Actually, yes. Unfortunately, I can't locate my post with the search function, but I distinctly remember mentioning that that smiley was going to give me a seizure. I was kidding, but yeah... it has been brought up.

[Corona688]

It's the pointless rapid-full-frame-changing ones that bother me, of which I've found at least three here. And thanks for the tip.

Do you like my legs? :P The animation, like the legs, is smooth, so my brain interprets it as 'something over there is moving steadily' rather than 'beeep! beep! beep! Something just changed! Look now! Look now!'. Hence they don't bother me a bit.

[godfry n. glad]

So Xouper says it's all relative with the Big Al's flashing tongue. :P

For me, it was annoyingly distracting. So much so that I wanted to hurry on past it. It did give me a headache, but I don't get migraines or seizures, either one. I was glad to find that I had the power to make it stop. :mememe:

I don't think it matters when, or if, somebody announces that they have another poster's avatart on "hide". We're all mature adults...or at least adults... and this is not The Young and the Restofus. :glare:

I love Big Al's Tongue. It's such a cool pic. :cool:

godfry

(I loooooove Legs' legs. Can we get you to scan the graphics a bit higher up?)

[Sonnet]

And your response to this was to assume that I was targeting you -- in fact I was not -- and go on a full-out defensive offensive in painting me as being tasteless for calling some avs tasteless.

I'm sorry, but of all of the things I may or may not be responsible for here, unless I posted something of which I have absolutely no memory I have to assert that I have in no way implied anything at all about your taste. I think you may be misreading something, perhaps because your own hackles are up, which is understandable during exchanges like this one. If you can offer me an example of what you think I said, I'm pretty sure I can clear that particular misunderstanding up.

I assumed you were talking about my work because you specifically mentioned more than one in your examples of why you had assumed that someone had suddenly forgotten to pay the taste bill. xouper's is one example. The others were mine.

The only thing I took exception to at the beginning of this whole thing was the idea of going out of one's way to tell them that you don't like a thing they happen to be enjoying. I don't understand it, and can't think of a single reason to do a thing like that except to bring people down and make them less pleased with whatever it is they're doing. Is there another reason to make a point of telling someone you don't like something that makes them happy? It's not about avatars, or forums, or our right to say what we want; it's about not thinking it's very nice to do that, and saying so. And maybe the way I went about it was harsh, but at least I take responsibility for what I say and how people feel about it; I don't try to pretend that I meant something else, and it feels - when I say that it means that it's an OPINION, just the way it SEEMS - a little like that's happening here. It seems disingenuous to me.

[xouper]

Sonnet: The only thing I took exception to at the beginning of this whole thing was the idea of going out of one's way to tell them that you don't like a thing they happen to be enjoying. I don't understand it, and can't think of a single reason to do a thing like that except to bring people down and make them less pleased with whatever it is they're doing.
At least you admit that you still don't understand, even though I've already explained "why" more than once.

... at least I take responsibility for what I say and how people feel about it...
Yeah, right. I'm still waiting for you to retract your bogus accusation that I intentionally caused harm to Beth. Then maybe I'll listen. Until then, you can kiss my ass.

[Corona688]

And your response to this was to assume that I was targeting you -- in fact I was not -- and go on a full-out defensive offensive in painting me as being tasteless for calling some avs tasteless.

I'm sorry, but of all of the things I may or may not be responsible for here, unless I posted something of which I have absolutely no memory I have to assert that I have in no way implied anything at all about your taste. I think you may be misreading something, perhaps because your own hackles are up, which is understandable during exchanges like this one. If you can offer me an example of what you think I said, I'm pretty sure I can clear that particular misunderstanding up. Don't make me dredge up your own words on taking responsibility for what you said. You keep getting bogged down in details when what it works out to is I never attacked you, but you sure as hell attacked me.

I wouldn't be surprised; too many people have abused it, confusing their taste with other people's obligation and forgetting that taste varies with individuals, so not sharing yours doesn't mean not having any.

:fuming: indeed. I don't see how that can be interpreted as anything but an "oh yeah? You suck too! Bugger off." but if you meant differently I'll take your word for it.

Also, you said you made me an offer to see things from my point of view. Until your last two posts to me they've been unwarranted attacks of one form or another.I assumed you were talking about my work because you specifically mentioned more than one in your examples of why you had assumed that someone had suddenly forgotten to pay the taste bill. Right, like you've got the only animated avatars on the forum. Face it, there were lots before you started giving them away. You chose to take offense at something not directed at you in any way. Don't make me dredge up your own words on taking responsibility for what you said.xouper's is one example. The others were mine.Are you seriously claiming to have created every single animated avatar on this forum?The only thing I took exception to at the beginning of this whole thing was the idea of going out of one's way to tell them that you don't like a thing they happen to be enjoying. Something I never did. I never named anyone. I was pissed at xouper's avatar because I thought it meant I'd have to turn off all avatars. My post was supposed to be sufficiently vague so nobody'd take offense at it, instead you took it upon yourself to assume yourself the guilty party and take offense. So yes, there's at least one single reason to do that(which I already explained by the way) and yet you continue to take offense at something I've stated is not directed at you and continue to attack someone who didn't attack you. Is this your offer to see things my way?It's not about avatars, or forums, or our right to say what we want; it's about not thinking it's very nice to do that, and saying so. And maybe the way I went about it was harsh, but at least I take responsibility for what I say :roflmao: How about making me that mythical offer to see things my way then? Until now you've attacked me and acted puzzled and hurt about things that I've told you repeatedly weren't directed at you. A ceasefire would be nice, but isn't exactly possible until you stop shooting.

[pescifish]

Love the new av, Corona688! :2thumbsup:

[Ensign Steve]

Love the new av, Corona688! :2thumbsup:

Dang, who died?

[Corona688]

Actually, it's not any kind of statement. I got bored with mine and couldn't think of anything nice, but I still wanted one to fit in, so I made it black. Very different, is it not? :D

[godfry n. glad]

Sorta like "Watch This Space"?

[xouper]

Corona688: Actually, it's not any kind of statement. I got bored with mine and couldn't think of anything nice, but I still wanted one to fit in, so I made it black. Very different, is it not? :D
Here's one that's both black and a corona:

[Corona688]

Sorta like "Watch This Space"? Hell if I know. Maybye I can sell it as modern art.

[edit] Xoup, you're a genius. That's perfect.

[xouper]

Corona688: Xoup, you're a genius. That's perfect.
After I posted it, I decided I could crop it tighter before reducing it to 100x100, and so I changed it, but not before you snagged it apparently. So now you have a choice of sizes, small and not-quite-as-small. :)


BTW, here's the original:
http://www.allthesky.com/eclipses/big/corona-b.jpg

[Ex-zombie]

Actually, it's not any kind of statement. I got bored with mine and couldn't think of anything nice, but I still wanted one to fit in, so I made it black. Very different, is it not? :D

:rainshit: Whatever.

[viscousmemories]

Right, like you've got the only animated avatars on the forum. Face it, there were lots before you started giving them away. You chose to take offense at something not directed at you in any way. Don't make me dredge up your own words on taking responsibility for what you said.
I explained that she probably thought you were talking about her avatars because she happens to have created several in the last 24 hours in this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=47653#post47653) on the last page, Corona. Did you not see that?

[viscousmemories]

Glad to see your av back there, Ex-zombie. :yup:

[Ex-zombie]

Glad to see your av back there, Ex-zombie. :yup:

Thanks vm. I talked to liv ya know. She says only she has the power to ban people. :livcrop:

[Corona688]

Actually, it's not any kind of statement. I got bored with mine and couldn't think of anything nice, but I still wanted one to fit in, so I made it black. Very different, is it not? :D

:rainshit: Whatever. Pardon?

Come on, tell me what my feelings and thoughts were and what my av represented; I'm honestly curious, since apparently you know more about my thoughts and motivations than I do.

[Corona688]

I explained that she probably thought you were talking about her avatars because she happens to have created several in the last 24 hours in this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=47653#post47653) on the last page, Corona. Did you not see that? I see that. I just don't think it's relevant. Like I said, she's hardly the only one to create and/or deploy animated avatars on this forum(not even close!), and Xouper in particular's claimed responsibillity for his own av.

[Corona688]

Glad to see your av back there, Ex-zombie. :yup:

Thanks vm. I talked to liv ya know. She says only she has the power to ban people. :livcrop: What, I'm threatening to ban people now? Shouldn't I at least get some free jackboots and a riding crop?

[Ex-zombie]

Actually, it's not any kind of statement. I got bored with mine and couldn't think of anything nice, but I still wanted one to fit in, so I made it black. Very different, is it not? :D

:rainshit: Whatever. Pardon?

Come on, tell me what my feelings and thoughts were and what my av represented; I'm honestly curious, since apparently you know more about my thoughts and motivations than I do.

I have no idea what your feelings and thoughts are. If you want to play innocent about the fact that you posted an all black avatar EXACTLY like Sonnet's previous avatar and then make some asinine comment about it, fine. Other people may buy that BS, I do not.

[Ex-zombie]

Glad to see your av back there, Ex-zombie. :yup:

Thanks vm. I talked to liv ya know. She says only she has the power to ban people. :livcrop: What, I'm threatening to ban people now? Shouldn't I at least get some free jackboots and a riding crop?


Are you reading your own thread? This is in reference to an exchange between me and vm on page one.

[Corona688]

I have no idea what your feelings and thoughts are. If you want to play innocent about the fact that you posted an all black avatar EXACTLY like Sonnet's previous avatar and then make some asinine comment about it, fine. Other people may buy that BS, I do not. I did what?

Holy shit.

Sonnet, I'm sorry. I was not making any statement, I traded up as soon as I could find anything better, if that lends any credence to my statement at all.

Goddamit. I knew I should've picked white.

[viscousmemories]

Thanks vm. I talked to liv ya know. She says only she has the power to ban people. :livcrop:
Oh yeah? Well you just cross me and watch how fast I... I...

...I ask liv if she'll please consider maybe banning you!

[viscousmemories]

I explained that she probably thought you were talking about her avatars because she happens to have created several in the last 24 hours in this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=47653#post47653) on the last page, Corona. Did you not see that? I see that. I just don't think it's relevant. Like I said, she's hardly the only one to create and/or deploy animated avatars on this forum(not even close!), and Xouper in particular's claimed responsibillity for his own av.
The fact that she isn't the only one who has created or deployed animated avatars here has nothing to do with what I said. My point was that Sonnet had just created two or three new animated avatars in a 24 hour period, and there was already a fairly heated discussion going on about them in another thread when you started this thread. So it was reasonable (though apparently incorrect) for Sonnet to think you were talking about her avatars in your OP here. In any case she hasn't once suggested that every animated avatar ever made or deployed here was created by her, so at the very least there's no reason for you to keep implying that she has.

I think maybe everyone has been overreacting to each other to one degree or another over this issue. I don't think Sonnet, xouper, you, or anyone else involved in these discussions has any real hostile intentions toward anyone else. A little more assuming the best (or at least the neutral) about each other would probably go a long way for everyone. Not that giving the benefit of the doubt comes naturally to me either, I just think the absence of it (all around) has been pretty glaring in these avatar threads.

[JoeP]

Yeah! Or even easier: we could just ban everyone. End of problem.

Ban everyone!
/me cackles insanely and posts relevant scene from Blackadder:


In Putney.

E: Tell me Young crone, is this Putney?
C: That it be, that it be.
E: "Yes it is". Not "that it be". You don't have to talk in that stupid
voice to me. I'm not a tourist. I seek information about a
Wisewoman.
C: Ah, the Wisewoman.. the Wisewoman.
E: Yes, the Wisewoman.
C: Two things, my lord, must thee know of the Wisewoman. First, she is
... a woman, and second, she is ...
E: .. wise?
C: You do know her then?
E: No, just a wild stab in the dark which is incidentally what you'll
be getting if you don't start being a bit more helpful. Do you know
where she lives?
C: Of course.
E: Where?
C: Here. Do you have an appointment?
E: No.
C: Well, you can go in anyway.
E: Thank you Young crone. Here is a purse of moneys... which I'm not
going to give to you.

W: Hail Edmund, lord of Adders Black.
E: Hello.
W: Step no nearer, for already I see thy bloody purpose. Thou plot is,
Blackadder: thou wouldst be king and drown Middlesex in a butt of
wine. Ah, ah, ah, ah.
E: No, no, no, no. it is far worse than that. I'm in love with my man
servant.
W: Oh well, I'd sleep with him if I were you.
E: What?
W: When I fancy people, I sleep with them. Oh, I have to drug them
first of course! Being so old and watty.
E: But what about my position, my social life?
W: Very well then. Three other paths are open to you. Three cunning
plans to cure thy ailment.
E: Oh good.
W: The first is simple. Kill Bob!
E: Never.
W: Then try the second. Kill your self!
E: Neu. And the third?
W: The third is to ensure that no one else ever knows.
E: Ha, that sounds more like it. How?
W: Kill everybody in the whole world. Ah, ha, ha ...

More than was actually relevant, but less than necessary...

Sonnet, them moving pictures are the work of the devil.

I have enjoyed these threads and the related apologies. It's good to be reminded of the "friendly" chats I've been missing thanks to the complete failure of Telkom SA to fix my line at home (STILL). :jerry:

[Beth]

I personally thought that xoupers post and av was directed at Sonnet and the people she had created them for, myself included. I can greatly understand why she may have felt she was being targeted. I know that I personally felt pressure into removing my avatar as EZ did, but I thought that would be disrespectful to Sonnet, especially considerring the time she went into the avatar. And dernit! I like it! I never had one of the new fangled custom doodads and I often feel very unconfortable about being too attention getting, but dernit! I got a avatar that is new fangled and screams "Look at me!" I think I like it. I even like my name more cuz it looks so purty in all those fonts.:)

[xouper]

Beth: I personally thought that xoupers post and av was directed at Sonnet and the people she had created them for, myself included.
That's correct.

Speaking in general terms now - If anyone's enjoyment of this forum is being infringed, regardless by who or how, one has a choice to either try to ignore it (for example, hiding certain avatars or threads), or speaking up about how one feels about it. Or both.

In this case, I chose both. I intended my flashing avatar to be a humorous (and sarcastic) response to the new flashing avatar trend. I extrapolated the trend to an absurd consequence. Certain people took offense. Far more than I anticipated. They had the same choice I mention above: keep your mouth shut and hide what you don't like, or express your opinion about it.

Is it legitimate to express your feelings about what you don't like on this forum if what you don't like is other people expressing their feelings about what they don't like? Does anyone see the irony here?

[Ensign Steve]

Does anyone see the irony here?

:hands1: :happywave:

Ooh! Ooh! I do!

(oh, and anybody that hid the flashy avatar I had over the weekend, feel free to unhide it. It doesn't flash anymore, but it's still sufficiently tarted up.)

[xouper]

Ensign Steve: (oh, and anybody [like xouper] that hid the flashy avatar I had over the weekend, feel free to unhide it. It doesn't flash anymore, but it's still sufficiently tarted up.)
Oooo!! Now that's an avatar I can look at all day. :bbed:

[Ensign Steve]

:blush:

[godfry n. glad]

:blush:

Excuse me, but I'm intrigued.

It is indeed a nice photo of you. To date myself, it looks very Marlo Thomas. Anyhoo... I'm interested in the costume. Am I correct in guessing that you are wearing some kind of pink angel wings?

Some kind of lurid lingerie ad, right?

You're a Victoria's Secret model, aren't you?

[Seven of Nine]

You do realize that these images cycle at the same rate of any television commercial - or in ex-zombie's case, music video? You're used to seeing pictures move this quickly all the time. If they give you seizures, you should see a doctor.

If only going to the doctor always worked. I went to several for four years before being given a med which insures me perfect seizure control. As far as animated avatars inducing them, they really can, and can give someone like myself a stupendous migraine before I'm aware that I need to set my filter to block it.
Nevertheless, not all animated avis produce this effect, since both high contrast and the rate at which they blink are involved, and I'm willing to risk the occasional migraine, rather that see our members limited in their choice of avi.
However, if I still suffered from an uncontrolled, or poorly controlled seizure disorder, I would not feel the same way, and I find it hard to believe that anyone I've had the pleasure of meeting here would expect other members to risk injury or death as a result of his/her freedom to use any avatar he/she wishes.
If Corona was employing hyperbole, I apologise for taking the post too seriously, but Sonnet's post, in which she appears to be asserting that TV commercials routinely produce seizure-causing stimuli alarmed me a bit; were this true I simply couldn't watch TV at all.

Try this: just think of moving avatars as tiny little television sets that tell you stories about that poster. Will that make you feel better? :pat:

Only if they don't cause me migraines lasting for hours, with attendant nausea and vomiting.

It simply amazes me what people will actually take the time to complain about - much like Vonnegut's analogy about hostility toward novels being akin to donning full armor to attack a hot-fudge sundae. It always makes me wonder what else these people go around criticizing.

Sonnet, have you ever had stimuli cause you to have a seizure? If not, please trust me when I tell you that it's not a pleasant experience.

Many of these same people would be the first to tell someone from the Moral Majority to change the damn channel if they don't like what they're watching.

This analogy would be more sucessful if it weren't equating moral/ethical repugnance with actual physical harm.

Two words: disable avatar. So ask yourself - is it about not seeing moving avatars, or making it so no one can HAVE moving avatars and making them feel bad about it if they do?

Should I find that any avatars here affect me physically, I will, but I'm more than willing to chance suffering a migraine in order to view our members' avatars; I doubt if I would feel the same way were I to have a seizure immediately upon viewing one, especialy since I might not remember what caused it afterward.
I do think that the chance that an avatar here will trigger a seizure is small for the simple reason that most internet stimuli would prevent the viewer from ever making it here. Nevertheless, I do have an acquaintance who regularly spent much time on the internet, yet had a seizure when I showed him the film Yellow Submarine, even though I had darkened my TV set's picture and lowered the contrast in order to safely view the film myself.

On an up note, I've racked up some 5,000 posts at another board while using the animated avatar below, and with no ill effects whatsoever, so avatars needn't have a negative physical effect on those with seizure disorders.

http://sevenofnine.cherrytaco.com/Miscellanea/Avatars/Avatars_CF/Seven_Animated_Kelly.gif

However, I do find that it's a mistake to stare at the banner below, and so I avert my eyes when viewing my own posts. Yes, it's mine lol, in this case it's a contrast problem, and it wasn't made by Sonnet.
Sonnet, please...nothing in this post is intended to be a negative assessment of your work: those examples which I've had the pleasure of seeing up until now, I've enjoyed very much indeed. :bow4:

http://sevenofnine.cherrytaco.com/Miscellanea/Banners/Seven_brown_Ani_Mel.gif

[Dingfod]

Sounds like the bionic implants need a tuneup, 7o9.

[Seven of Nine]

Sounds like the bionic implants need a tuneup, 7o9.

They do indeed, Warrenly! If only I had the Holographic Doctor to assist me!

I had to abandon an e-mail account (with unread e-mails) because they introduced a hideous dancing coffee cup, and I couldn't take a mod job at one board because some neon colored fonts affect me when in bold, and the staff didn't feel free to ask a member not to bold his posts.
Usually people are very kind about making their fonts less psychedelic at my request, but this man didn't see the need.

The acquaintance who had a seizure from watching Yellow Submarine later washed out of the Navy because he had a seizure disorder; the same kind I have. He was extremely disappointed. :(

[Seven of Nine]

Hey cool! You liked my Christmas avatar. I'm flattered. :)

liv, I'd love to see it! When you have time, could you put it in your gallery, or PM it to me, pretty please? :D

[xouper]

Sonnet: It simply amazes me what people will actually take the time to complain about - much like Vonnegut's analogy about hostility toward novels being akin to donning full armor to attack a hot-fudge sundae.
Question for the gallery: Does anyone here feel this describes any of my comments about flashing avatars? Does it really seem to anyone that I had donned full armor to attack a sundae?

[livius drusus]

Hey cool! You liked my Christmas avatar. I'm flattered. :)

liv, I'd love to see it! When you have time, could you put it in your gallery, or PM it to me, pretty please? :D

Sure. It was my first successful foray into picture modification/animation. I'm really quite proud of it. :pleased: Here it is (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/showimage.php?i=101&c=7).

I love your banner, btw, but you already knew that.

[Soubrette]

Question for the gallery: Does anyone here feel this describes any of my comments about flashing avatars? Does it really seem to anyone that I had donned full armor to attack a sundae?

Bearing in mind that each individual avatar can be disabled? Bearing in mind that you yourself get quite pissy when someone trashes something you enjoy (startrek and baseball - (or was it hockey or basket ball :P) come to mind)

Maybe you weren't aware of the first option - I dunno :) but instead of either dealing with it by disabling the annoying ones - or if you weren't aware then expressing dismay about disabling all of them - you have to make yourself an uber annoying avatar yourself.

This forum is great in that all these features mean that we shouldn't have to bitch about anyone else's stuff - heck even a quoted post of a poster on ignore is ignored also - how cool is that :)

So in a word....yes (imo ;)) Although I also think it was nice of you to apologise and I knew in no way would you do the avatar thing deliberately to inflict pain :)

Sou

[Seven of Nine]

Hey cool! You liked my Christmas avatar. I'm flattered. :)

liv, I'd love to see it! When you have time, could you put it in your gallery, or PM it to me, pretty please? :D

Sure. It was my first successful foray into picture modification/animation. I'm really quite proud of it. :pleased: Here it is (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/showimage.php?i=101&c=7).

erm...and I see it how?

I'm never going to get this image gallery figured out. :banghead:

I love your banner, btw, but you already knew that.

Thank you! I love it, too. When Mel found out it was causing me problems, she lowered the contrast, but the effect was not so impressive, so I elected to wear it as it is. I was well worth the migraine I got from it, and I now glance away, so that everyone else can enjoy the full, way cool effect.
I'll pass your kudos on to the maker! :D

Actually, I don't think I've inflicted, erm, shown you my banners yet, but I can, of course! :rolfmao:
I also found my very first avatars ever: I had put them on a floppy, which I then lost, and now have found, but I've been giving you a break from Show and Tell this week.

[Seven of Nine]

Sonnet: It simply amazes me what people will actually take the time to complain about - much like Vonnegut's analogy about hostility toward novels being akin to donning full armor to attack a hot-fudge sundae.
Question for the gallery: Does anyone here feel this describes any of my comments about flashing avatars? Does it really seem to anyone that I had donned full armor to attack a sundae?

erm...I don't. Maybe I'm missing something, but as someone who is used to belonging to boards which have no fewer than six different avatar makers (and usually a whole lot more), I prefer the use of irony when commenting on avi trends, and am not inclined to see such as an attack on one particular maker's work.

I was, however, shocked to see you accused of causing anyone physical pain on purpose. No one ever does, not even the man I mentioned who chose the Font From Hell, and the fact that he was unwilling to take his font out of bold (the color would have remained the same) once he knew that it caused myself and others to suffer pain for hours shows that there's merit in addressing this problem early on.

[Ensign Steve]

You're a Victoria's Secret model, aren't you?

The cat's out of the bag.

Seriously, I got a bunch of photos taken at Glamour Shots several years ago. In a couple of them I have on a set of pink fuzzy wings. In a couple others I have a black leather jacket. A friend asked if the accessories were mine or came from the shop. I answered, "The wings were theirs. The leather is mine." He said, "Good answer." hehe

Here's where I'm confused. If people expected xouper simply to put the annoying avatars on "ignore" and not make any further comment about it, why don't those same people just put him on "ignore" and shut the fuck up about it? hmmm?

[Soubrette]

Here's where I'm confused. If people expected xouper simply to put the annoying avatars on "ignore" and not make any further comment about it, why don't those same people just put him on "ignore" and shut the fuck up about it? hmmm?

Because he asked for opinions :P

Sou

[Ex-zombie]

Just for the record I do not have a problem with anyone expressing their opinion about my avatar or anyone else's for that matter. I did not get angry at Xouper. I thought his neon avatar was quite a statement. I took my avatar down initially because I got angry/hurt at Corona's statement about taste and I behaved like an impulsive child. I erroneously assumed Corona was speaking specifically about my avatar.

I think basically it comes down to hurt feelings on all sides. I hope that everyone concerned can put it behind them.

[Soubrette]

Oh, it just occurred to me that it might be pertinent (or maybe not :P) to state for the record that I know Xouper from other boards.

Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't :)

But I always love his einstein avatar :yup:

Sou

[Seven of Nine]

Just for the record I do not have a problem with anyone expressing their opinion about my avatar or anyone else's for that matter. I did not get angry at Xouper. I thought his neon avatar was quite a statement. I took my avatar down initially because I got angry/hurt at Corona's statement about taste and I behaved like an impulsive child. I erroneously assumed Corona was speaking specifically about my avatar.

When I joined my first board, I specifically asked for tacky avatars to match my tacky username and got them, too. IMO, yours is quite elegant, Ex-Zombie. :D

I think basically it comes down to hurt feelings on all sides. I hope that everyone concerned can put it behind them.

I hope so, too. :kickscan:

[xouper]

xouper: Question for the gallery: Does anyone here feel this describes any of my comments about flashing avatars? Does it really seem to anyone that I had donned full armor to attack a sundae?

Soubrette: So in a word....yes (imo ;)) AARRGGHH!! Damn you, Sou. :D That's what I get for asking, eh?

OK, so both Sonnet and Sou think I over-reacted initially. Compared to others who have told me otherwise. I don't know what conclusion to draw from that.


Soubrette: Bearing in mind that each individual avatar can be disabled? Yes, I knew about that feature from the beginning. Soon after I got here I put a couple of avatars on ignore without making any public comment. And yet how many people assumed I am incapable of ignoring avatars without comment? Ponder that one.


Soubrette: Bearing in mind that you yourself get quite pissy when someone trashes something you enjoy (startrek and baseball - (or was it hockey or basket ball :P) come to mind)It was hockey, yes. And yes, sometimes I have gotten pissy about people who trashmouth my hobbies. Most times I just let it go, but when they got aggressive about it, then sometimes I have gotten pissy, yes. So I plead guilty there.


Soubrette: ... but instead of either dealing with it by disabling the annoying ones - ... you have to make yourself an uber annoying avatar yourself.Well, yeah, making that avatar was part of the fun. As Sonnet says, why are you complaining and trying to ruin other people's fun? :D


Ensign Steve: Here's where I'm confused. If people expected xouper simply to put the annoying avatars on "ignore" and not make any further comment about it, why don't those same people just put him on "ignore" and shut the fuck up about it? hmmm?

Soubrette: Because he asked for opinions :PNot at first, I didn't. The initial complaints and personal attacks from Sonnet were very much unsolicited.

[Ensign Steve]

xouper you like Star Trek? I knew you were a damn cool guy!

:spock:

[xouper]

Ensign Steve: xouper you like Star Trek?
I like ALL the Star Treks -- TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise, the movies, and the paperback novelizations -- regardless what anyone says about them.

[Ensign Steve]

ES--> :chestram: <--x

Me too! Anyone who says Enterprise is no good must have missed the episode in season one where Hoshi takes her shirt off.

[Dingfod]

Who's Hoshi?

[xouper]

Ensign Steve: ES--> :chestram: <--x :woohoo:


Ensign Steve: Anyone who says Enterprise is no good must have missed the episode in season one where Hoshi takes her shirt off.Or the one where T'Pol takes her shirt off:

http://www.lowerdecks.com/images/xindi/xindi051.jpg

[xouper]

warrenly: Who's Hoshi?Biography of Ensign Hoshi Sato (http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/character/bio/1122654.html), Communications Officer, Enterprise NX-01.

[xouper]

It just occured to me that to avoid derailing this thread any further with nekkid star trek discussions, we could move it to a new thread I started.

[JoeP]

You're a Victoria's Secret model, aren't you?

The cat's out of the bag.

Seriously, I got a bunch of photos taken at Glamour Shots several years ago. In a couple of them I have on a set of pink fuzzy wings. In a couple others I have a black leather jacket. A friend asked if the accessories were mine or came from the shop. I answered, "The wings were theirs. The leather is mine." He said, "Good answer." hehe

Hmm. Now I'm thinking of a photo shot with leather wings. Now that would make an avatar. With horns and a tail, as you like (and even Victoria's Secret in red or black...)

[slimshady2357]

All quotes by xouper
AARRGGHH!! Damn you, Sou. :D That's what I get for asking, eh?

You get an opinion :P

OK, so both Sonnet and Sou think I over-reacted initially. Compared to others who have told me otherwise. I don't know what conclusion to draw from that.

I think it shows that this is not an objective matter. Is it important for you to feel that you have genuinely examined your behaviour and have insight into it? In that case (and if it were me) I would consider the possible biases of the people telling me their opinions :P I would also consider how I would feel if someone posted something similar about my avatars and did the same. And if someone posted something similar about someone elses avatars and I was reading it.

Would I think they were over reacting?

These are genuine things I would do - not rhetorical questions that are supposed to lead you to the conclusion that you did over react btw :)

Not at first, I didn't. The initial complaints and personal attacks from Sonnet were very much unsolicited.

I hope people realise that I was only answering for me. I can't answer for other posters - it's fun to conjecture sometimes but I think I would usually be a little more wishy washy in my answer if I didn't know for sure. I commented only because you asked. :yup:

So why didn't you just put these avatars on ignore then? :D

Sou

fuck - I haven't done this for a long time :(

[viscousmemories]

OK, so both Sonnet and Sou think I over-reacted initially. Compared to others who have told me otherwise. I don't know what conclusion to draw from that.
As a general rule I try to stay out of conflicts between the members here because I don't want to be seen as using my weighted social currency as an admin to defend or condemn people based on my own personal feelings about them or their opinions. That's why I haven't said much about this and when I have commented, I've attempted to be as diplomatic as possible. But since you asked...

I know and trust you from our interactions on other boards, and I never suspected that you intended to cause Beth any physical pain. However I admit that I did wonder whether you had seen her post about it and decided to keep your flashing avatar up anyway, just on principle. I'm sorry if it offends you that I thought you might do such a thing, but I'm just telling you what my initial thoughts were. However when you didn't respond to any of the allegations throughout the day, it occurred to me that the more likely case was that you hadn't seen Beth's post.

So at the time when Sonnet first posted saying that it seemed like you were more interested in making a statement with the flashing avatar than preventing anguish (but that she hoped she was wrong) I understood why she said it and I fully expected you to respond either that she could disable the avatar if it was hurting her or that you hadn't seen her post. I did not expect you to be furious with Sonnet and tell her repeatedly to go fuck herself and such.

But when you did, I re-read her post from your perspective and it made sense to me that you would feel as though she was accusing you of essentially sociopathic behavior and in that context your hostile response made sense. At that point, I think I might have even posted something to the effect of I understand why you responded the way you did. That wasn't meant to suggest that I thought the response was reasonable or justified, just that I understood it.

However, I did not understand why you continued to read her posts in the worst possible light and respond hostily to her in every post after that point. It seemed clear to me that she was making a concerted effort to find some compromise with you about the situation and you continued to shun her repeatedly, demanding that she retract her "accusation" that you had hurt Beth intentionally, while I disagree that she ever made such an accusation. (But I do think there's some grey area between speculation and accusation... it's confusing.)

Anyway so when you posted your apology I thought it was the right thing to do and I think I said as much in that thread. The bottom line being that I understand why you were offended and angry, I'm not surprised that you reacted as you did initially, but I do think it was an overreaction. All things considered in my personal opinion Sonnet took a lot more flak all around than she dished out here over this deal.

[xouper]

viscousmemories: ... since you asked...
Apparently there seems to be some confusion about which question I was asking. I was not asking whether I had subsequently over-reacted to Sonnet's hostility. Clearly I had and I apologized for it.

I was asking if I had over-reacted to Beth's and Zombie's flashing avatars (before Sonnet ever commented). That is what Sonnet accused me of over-reacting to, the avatars. Perhaps it would be helpful to review the chronology of my posts on the matter (all times are UTC):

03-05-2005, 03:35 AM xouper: In keeping with the latest trend towards animated flashing avatars, I have updated mine too.

03-05-2005, 03:37 AM livius drusus: :chuckle: Never have I been so grateful for the hide avatar feature.

03-05-2005, 03:48 AM xouper: Exactly my point. I too am grateful for the custom forum option that allows me to hide annoying flashing avatars. If this trend keeps up, if more people adopt flashing avatars like Beth's and zombie's, perhaps eventually I'll have everyone's avatar on ignore. :D But for those who like flashing avatars, well, here ya go.

03-05-2005, 11:41 AM Sonnet: Wow. Well, I guess I'd better put your posts on ignore, then, so I don't have to get a complex about loving graphics and liking to do nice things for people while I wait for that shoe to drop. I'm grateful for the custom forum option that allows me to hide annoying critics. :wave:

03-05-2005, 12:17 PM xouper: You made the right choice to put my posts on ignore. I'm sure your forum experience will be much improved by not having to read any of my nonsense.
From this point I was away from the forum for about 12 hours, which is why I had not taken my flashing avatar down sooner. Up to this point, does anyone maintain that I was over-reacting? It appears Sonnet thought so, as seen from her next reply. How on earth she came to the following conclusions based only on what I posted above is beyond me.

03-05-2005, 09:07 PM Sonnet: So, here's what I've gleaned about xouper, and I hope I'm wrong: he's so adamantly against the IDEA that ANYONE'S avatar moves at all that it causes him the kind of personal discomfort that some people have when they can't control what other people like or do. SO, to PUNISH other people for liking something HE DOESN'T, instead of simply ignoring the things he doesn't like quietly so everyone can have a nice time, he actually creates a flashing avatar that GENUINELY HURTS PEOPLE by giving them migraines, and somehow thinks ACTUAL PAIN is fair trade for enjoying something he doesn't. So, now Beth, who DARED to like her gently moving avatar - whose images change as frequently as, say a sitcom or a commercial, has to pay by avoiding an image gallery where xouper has placed his instrument of retribution.

Images move this fast on TV and in movies all the time without offending your delicate ocular sensibilities. This, I daresay, is about control.

:whup:

I guess you taught everybody a big lesson.

Nice. Are you the old guy that slows WAY DOWN in front of big lines of traffic so that YOU can ENFORCE the RULES?03-05-2005, 10:00 PM Sonnet: It simply amazes me what people will actually take the time to complain about - much like Vonnegut's analogy about hostility toward novels being akin to donning full armor to attack a hot-fudge sundae. It always makes me wonder what else these people go around criticizing.

Many of these same people would be the first to tell someone from the Moral Majority to change the damn channel if they don't like what they're watching.

Two words: disable avatar. So ask yourself - is it about not seeing moving avatars, or making it so no one can HAVE moving avatars and making them feel bad about it if they do?
My next post wasn't until almost three hours after that (03-06-2005, 12:47 AM). There is no question that I got hostile at that point. Sonnet was WAAAY out of line. But before Sonnet's complaint, had I over-reacted as she accused me of? Is that what people here think? Does anyone agree with Sonnet's complaint about me based only on what I had posted up to that point? That was the question I was asking, not whether I over-reacted to Sonnet's complaints.

[viscousmemories]

From this point I was away from the forum for about 12 hours, which is why I had not taken my flashing avatar down sooner. Up to this point, does anyone maintain that I was over-reacting? It appears Sonnet thought so, as seen from her next reply. How on earth she came to the following conclusions based only on what I posted above is beyond me.
You missed what I think is a very important post in your synopsis of the exchange (in blue):

03-05-2005, 03:35 AM xouper: In keeping with the latest trend towards animated flashing avatars, I have updated mine too.

03-05-2005, 03:37 AM livius drusus: :chuckle: Never have I been so grateful for the hide avatar feature.

03-05-2005, 03:48 AM xouper: Exactly my point. I too am grateful for the custom forum option that allows me to hide annoying flashing avatars. If this trend keeps up, if more people adopt flashing avatars like Beth's and zombie's, perhaps eventually I'll have everyone's avatar on ignore. :D But for those who like flashing avatars, well, here ya go.

03-05-2005, 03:50 AM Beth: Thanks, xoup, flashing lights is a migrane trigger for me. Guess what... looks like Imitrex and Advil coctail will be my best friends tonight. But i do like it, It made me laugh and stare, even though I knew it would doom me. I suppose it is the deer caught in headlights type thing.

03-05-2005, 11:41 AM Sonnet: Wow. Well, I guess I'd better put your posts on ignore, then, so I don't have to get a complex about loving graphics and liking to do nice things for people while I wait for that shoe to drop. I'm grateful for the custom forum option that allows me to hide annoying critics. :wave:

03-05-2005, 12:17 PM xouper: You made the right choice to put my posts on ignore. I'm sure your forum experience will be much improved by not having to read any of my nonsense.

So you posted in response to Sonnet 8 hours after Beth had posted that your flashing avatar gave her a migraine, yet you didn't remove it until that evening, after you returned to the forum and found Sonnet's speculations about your intent. I don't know if you didn't see Beth's post or if you did see it and left the flashing avatar up anyway to make sure you got your point across, but I admit I also thought it was the latter. So yeah, I guess it's fair to say I thought it was an overreaction. That's pretty much what I meant when I said:

I don't personally think animated is synonymous with flashing. Yours is the first avatar I've seen here that I would describe as flashing, and the first that has agitated me to the point that I've felt compelled to hide it. It's a shame, 'cause if you should change it and don't make a post (that I see) announcing the change, it's unlikely I'll ever un-hide it and I think avatars liven up a profile.

Anyway I'll say again that I honestly think I understand why you and Sonnet acted and reacted as you did, and I very sincerely believe that neither of you had any malicious intent. I really think it was just an ugly misunderstanding at various points all around.

[xouper]

viscousmemories: So you posted in response to Sonnet 8 hours after Beth had posted that your flashing avatar gave her a migraine, yet you didn't remove it until that evening, after you returned to the forum and found Sonnet's speculations about your intent. I don't know if you didn't see Beth's post or if you did see it and left the flashing avatar up anyway to make sure you got your point across, but I admit I also thought it was the latter. So yeah, I guess it's fair to say I thought it was an overreaction.
So are you saying it's reasonable to characterize my behavior as over-reacting because of something I didn't do? I confess, that's a new one on me.

[viscousmemories]

So are you saying it's reasonable to characterize my behavior as over-reacting because of something I didn't do? I confess, that's a new one on me.
No, I'm not saying it's reasonable to characterize your behavior as over-reacting because of something you didn't do. I'm saying that what you did do strikes me as an overreaction. Earlier you quoted a comment Sonnet made about some people's complaints being the equivalent of attacking a sundae with a full suit of armor on and asked if anyone feels that accurately describes any of your comments about flashing avatars.

I think responding to Sonnet's two new animated avatars by changing your avatar to an obnoxious flashing one, embedding it in a post, posting it in the avatar requests gallery alongside hers, stating "[...] if more people adopt flashing avatars like Beth's and zombie's, perhaps eventually I'll have everyone's avatar on ignore" - then leaving it in all three places for about 24 hours after Beth commented that it caused her a migraine (assuming you saw the post she made two minutes after yours) - does strike me as donning a suit of armor to attack a hot fudge sundae.

In particular because I have seen you vigorously condemn people on other forums for complaining about things they had the software tools to simply ignore, and arguing just as vigorously for the implementation of such tools when they didn't exist.

[xouper]

viscousmemories: I think responding to Sonnet's two new animated avatars by changing your avatar to an obnoxious flashing one, embedding it in a post, posting it in the avatar requests gallery alongside hers, stating "[...] if more people adopt flashing avatars like Beth's and zombie's, perhaps eventually I'll have everyone's avatar on ignore" - then leaving it in all three places for about 24 hours after Beth commented that it caused her a migraine (assuming you saw the post she made two minutes after yours) - does strike me as donning a suit of armor to attack a hot fudge sundae.
I accept that as an answer to my question. I am genuinely surprised that you see it that way, however.

viscousmemories: In particular because I have seen you vigorously condemn people on other forums for complaining about things they had the software tools to simply ignore, ...
I have indeed done that, condemned people who, instead of ignoring what they don't like, demanded that others stop doing those things. In this case here, however, I did not ask anyone to stop doing something I have the tools to ignore. I expressed my intent to ignore some avatars, and explained why. Perhap that is too subtle a distinction between my behavior here and the behavior I have vigorously condemned elsewhere. I see them as being sufficiently different as to not be hypocritical on my part. Seems you disagree. OK, whatever.

[justaman]

Would this be an inappropriate time to mention I don't like Sonnet or...? :popcorn:

Say "NO" to SonnetSonnet = ChowderheadNo one likes Sonnet
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

[slimshady2357]

I have indeed done that, condemned people who, instead of ignoring what they don't like, demanded that others stop doing those things. In this case here, however, I did not ask anyone to stop doing something I have the tools to ignore. I expressed my intent to ignore some avatars, and explained why. Perhap that is too subtle a distinction between my behavior here and the behavior I have vigorously condemned elsewhere. I see them as being sufficiently different as to not be hypocritical on my part. Seems you disagree. OK, whatever.

But you have, here and on other boards reacted quite strongly to people merely expressing their negative opinion of something you enjoy. For instance Star Trek and hockey come to mind. Yet you quite clearly expressed your negative opinion of something that other people were enjoying.

That's what I found to be hypocritical about your behaviour. You could have just put the avatars on ignore, but you felt you had to make a point. Yet you strongly dislike anyone making a negative point about something you enjoy.

Adam

[xouper]

slimshady2357: But you have, here and on other boards reacted quite strongly to people merely expressing their negative opinion of something you enjoy.True.


slimshady2357: For instance Star Trek and hockey come to mind.True.


slimshady2357: Yet you quite clearly expressed your negative opinion of something that other people were enjoying.True.


slimshady2357: That's what I found to be hypocritical about your behaviour.When you put it that way, it is difficult to argue against.


slimshady2357: You could have just put the avatars on ignore, but you felt you had to make a point.True.


slimshady2357: Yet you strongly dislike anyone making a negative point about something you enjoy.True.

I guess that IS hypocritical of me. I didn't realize. Now I feel like I should go crawl under a rock or something.

If I have to pick one or the other, I guess I would prefer to give up saying negative things about what others enjoy. That way I can be like Sonnet and jump in people's shit whenever they badmouth stuff others enjoy. I may still be an asshole, but at least I won't be a hypocritical asshole.

Maybe I need time away from forums for a while. This whole avatar episode hasn't been fun for me and I suspect it hasn't been any fun for others either.

[slimshady2357]

Well, I don't think you need to hide under any rocks. Wow, if I were to hide under a rock everytime I did something hypocritical, I'd need to live in a much more rocky terrain! :giggle:

I'd have to find a nice comfy rock to carry around with me!

Only you can tell if you need time away xoup, but I think most people aren't too worried about the whole episode anymore, if they ever were.

Adam

[Soubrette]

Maybe I need time away from forums for a while. This whole avatar episode hasn't been fun for me and I suspect it hasn't been any fun for others either.

Ohhhh so now you take away some of our enjoyment of the forums by stop posting :fuming: :P

It wasn't a big deal to me, I only posted because you asked for input, I wouldn't have bothered otherways.

Adam's right, he does need to carry....(no no just kidding sweety), we all need to carry a big rock around with us, people find it hard to act consistently (and yet we all think we do :P)

So don't go all drama queen on us - you said your bit, you apologised for the bits where you overstepped the mark in your opinion, end of story :yup:

I actually think that liv would be more grateful if, instead of taking a break, you start some more threads ;) I know I would :cool:

Sou

[viscousmemories]

That way I can be like Sonnet and jump in people's shit whenever they badmouth stuff others enjoy.
xouper, I'm really not interested in branding your actions as hypocritical or whatever. And I certainly don't want to see you leave over this. I was more than willing to let this issue rest after your apology to Sonnet and the subsequent tapering off of these threads. But you came back to this thread to specifically ask if anyone felt like you had overreacted so I wanted to give you my honest opinion, and I accept that you disagree with me about whether your response was over the top.

Nevertheless, I really don't understand why you continue to make digs at Sonnet (like the one above) as though she started all of this. Sonnet's initial 'offense' was asking if anyone wanted a custom avatar, and responding to those who said they did by making them animated avatars. Your reaction (IMHO) was to make a vocal mockery of her artwork.

First you post the seizure-inducing Einstein saying, "But for those who like flashing avatars, well, here ya go." (which I honestly interpreted as both dumping on Sonnet's work and a big "fuck you" to anyone who likes animated avatars) then you comment that if people keep adopting avatars like hers you'll soon have every avatar on ignore, and now you're calling her hostile response to your unsolicited crticism "jumping in people's shit"? That doesn't make sense to me.

Basically the sequence of events looked something like this to me:

Sonnet: Here are some new avatars I designed.
Xouper: Ew! Thank god for the ignore avatar feature. Here's an avatar that sucks even harder.
Beth: Ouch, that avatar not only sucks harder, it gave me a migraine.

The next day...
Sonnet (to xouper): Oh yeah? Thank god for the ignore critic feature.
Xouper: You're right to ignore me. I'm a bad, bad man.

Five hours later...
Beth: "[...] I still have that migrane, been very sick all night and morning"

Three hours later...
Sonnet: It looks to me like xouper is TRYING to HURT people to express his hatred of animated avatars.

Four hours later...
Xouper: "Fuck you, Sonnet!!"
I think you could've picked a more tactful way of expressing your distaste for animated avatars that would have been less directly critical of Sonnet's artwork. But no, I don't believe you intended to hurt anyone. Besides, Beth admitted that the migraine was her own fault; that it resulted from her staring at the avatar against her better judgement. So I don't personally even blame you for not removing it after she stated that it gave her a migraine. After all, she could just not look at it.

I also think Sonnet was wrong to speculate that you were inflicting pain intentionally, and that it's just a good idea in general not to try to guess at people's motivations or intentions. But it's no secret to anyone that I've done a fair share of it myself, so I'm not trying to sound righteous here. My point being I think you were both somewhat careless in this instance but I still don't think either of you was intentionally malicious and I don't think it's the end of the world.

To be clear my point in writing this is just to clarify why I don't think anyone deserves all the blame in this conflict, not to assign the blame to you or anyone else. I hope that makes sense. Sou is right that liv (and I, for what it's worth) would much rather see you more active here than less. I personally think you have added a lot to every forum we've both posted on, including this one.

[Sonnet]

Would this be an inappropriate time to mention I don't like Sonnet or...? :popcorn:

Say "NO" to SonnetSonnet = ChowderheadNo one likes Sonnet
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Have we met?

[viscousmemories]

I think justaman was being contentious for its own sake, Sonnet. Based on his other posts I'm almost positive it's a twisted sense of humor thing that has nothing to do with you.

[Sonnet]

You know, honestly, I went to stay with a friend for a couple days, intending to try to clean up whatever part I had in this mess when I came back. I see that viscous has made most of my points for me, and I have no intention of trying to reiterate the ones I've already made that were disregarded or discarded.

Making avatars for this forum (because I was glad to have a place to fit in and wanted to do something nice) is one of the first things I've done in the last three months that isn't directly connected in some way with pain or sorrow, and I probably reacted more strongly than I should have. That's not an excuse, just where I am right now. It just seems to me that simple, harmless pleasure and lightheartedness for its own sake is hard enough to find, and so important. What you did seemed a lot like stepping on a flower to me. Just my perception.

I didn't mean to imply that you MADE the flashing avatar to hurt Beth, xouper, just that it seemed to me that you couldn't have missed her post saying it gave her migraines. It bothered me to think that you saw that, and still felt so grimly adamant about your point that you left it up anyway. If I'm wrong and there's some way you missed that post, I'm sorry. Your attitude seemed mean-spirited - just in general, not only because the flashing triggered a migraine - and I reacted. If my worst mistake here is taking issue with what I perceived to be mean-spiritedness, then I'm ok with that.

BTW, this statement wasn't made toward you:

It simply amazes me what people will actually take the time to complain about - much like Vonnegut's analogy about hostility toward novels being akin to donning full armor to attack a hot-fudge sundae. It always makes me wonder what else these people go around criticizing.

Many of these same people would be the first to tell someone from the Moral Majority to change the damn channel if they don't like what they're watching.

Two words: disable avatar. So ask yourself - is it about not seeing moving avatars, or making it so no one can HAVE moving avatars and making them feel bad about it if they do?

I still think that's a valid question, one that reaches what I believe to be the heart of the matter. It has yet to be answered. And I still don't understand this one:

That way I can be like Sonnet and jump in people's shit whenever they badmouth stuff others enjoy.

Can you really see no difference between badmouthing something just for the sake of taking the enjoyment out of it for someone else, and taking issue with someone for doing that? You just said it yourself: you went out of your way to badmouth stuff others enjoyed, and yet you seem shocked and upset that someone might respond. Yes. I will continue to be a person who takes a little of the fun out of taking the fun out of things.

So: I readily acknowledge that I'm quite sure you didn't make your flashing avatar with the express purpose of causing anyone actual physical pain. I can't speak to how long it took you to take it down. If you say it's because you didn't realize, then fine.

Any chance of our collective panties getting unbunched here?

[justaman]

I'm not twisted :sadcheer:

[Dragar]

I'm not twisted :sadcheer:

Take it as a compliment. :)

[Corona688]

Hi Sonnet. Glad you're back, glad you've cooled down.

One point about Xoup's avatar. Does it really matter how long he left the avatar up? On a forum with an ignore avatar feature, it does not present a dilemma between callous or ignorant; I'd imagine people that reacted to it would either put it on ignore real quick or have disabled animated gifs in the first place. If the issue is making this forum safer for people with migraines/seizures, then we're treading down a dangerous road; hey liv, want to get rid of all your smilies? :D

[livius drusus]

Why no, Corona. Sure don't. ;)

Keep in mind, though, that xoup had embedded it in the post as well as made it his avatar, and even if that individual post was ignored, there was also a copy in the Gallery which could not be ignored at all unless you simply avoided the entire category, so it wasn't just in easy-to-hide av form. Anyhoo, it's ancient history now. xoup took all that stuff down when he realized its potential for eveel.

On a more present note, it's really good to see you Sonnet, and thanks to all the parties for being so damn classy with the apologies and acceptances. :appl:

[slimshady2357]

Hey liv, have you just given up on tetris, or what? :giggle: :muahaha: :giggle:

Adam

[livius drusus]

:slap: :slapface: :spank:

[pescifish]

Hey, after all this talk of hard to ignore flashing things, may I suggest you guys retire the "shocking" smiley? Surely it's on the dangerous side of possible triggers.

[livius drusus]

Good idea, pesci. He was hideous anyway.

[Crumb]

What is he to be replaced with?

[livius drusus]

We shall see. Keep an eye on the smiley alert thread.

[livius drusus]

:shocking:

[Ensign Steve]

But before Sonnet's complaint, had I over-reacted as she accused me of? Is that what people here think? Does anyone agree with Sonnet's complaint about me based only on what I had posted up to that point?

No you had not. No, that is not what I think. No I do not.

xouper, you must have noticed that I have agreed with you since the beginning, and I am not the only one. Please don't ignore those of us who think you reasonable, lest I start thinking you are one of those self-deprocating people that I cannot stand. You know the ones. The ones with selective hearing that only pay attention to the people who disagree with them and forget that there are people on their side. IOW: Don't leave the board over this shit. You would be too greatly missed. Especially for your contribution of certain topless Star Trek characters.

I also notice that xouper and Corona both offered up apology threads, and anybody can feel free to view the time stamps of how long it took said apologies to be acknowledged by certain key parties, and how hollow (or absent) the reciprocation. Just goes to show you something or other.

So you posted in response to Sonnet 8 hours after Beth had posted that your flashing avatar gave her a migraine, yet you didn't remove it until that evening, after you returned to the forum and found Sonnet's speculations about your intent.

Beth had the option of hiding the avatar in the meantime, and knowing how sensible she is, she most likely did. I mean, that's everyone's solution for xouper. "Hide the avatar and shut up! Hide the avatar and don't complain!" So what difference does it make at what time xouper took it down, or whether he did so at all? Nobody should care even if it was still up, as everybody has that same option of ignoring it.

Hey, after all this talk of hard to ignore flashing things, may I suggest you guys retire the "shocking" smiley? Surely it's on the dangerous side of possible triggers.

I totally said that twice already! :P

[Dingfod]

xouper, you must have noticed that I have agreed with you since the beginning, and I am not the only one. Please don't ignore those of us who think you reasonable, lest I start thinking you are one of those self-deprocating people that I cannot stand. You know the ones. The ones with selective hearing that only pay attention to the people who disagree with them and forget that there are people on their side.
/me looks sheepish

[Ensign Steve]

:doh: You know who you are!

ES--> :glomp: <--worn

[viscousmemories]

Beth had the option of hiding the avatar in the meantime, and knowing how sensible she is, she most likely did. I mean, that's everyone's solution for xouper. "Hide the avatar and shut up! Hide the avatar and don't complain!" So what difference does it make at what time xouper took it down, or whether he ever did so or not. Nobody should care even if it was still up, as everybody has that same option of ignoring it.
You're right, she could have easily hidden the avatar in his profile and she could have chosen to ignore the post where he embedded it. But she had no way of hiding it in the photo gallery. This has been mentioned numerous times throughout these threads. I don't think you'll be able to quote me or anyone else telling xouper to "hide the avatar and shut up!", or "hide the avatar and don't complain!".

Xouper has every right to have whatever avatar he wants and post whatever images. I have never requested that he remove an avatar or an image, nor have I ever suggested that he has no right to express his opinion or complaints. I don't know where you're getting the idea that I have. Why do you seem to think his right to express himself trumps our right to express our opinion of how he chose to go about it? Particularly since he asked for our input.

[Sonnet]

I also notice that xouper and Corona both offered up apology threads, and anybody can feel free to view the time stamps of how long it took said apologies to be acknowledged by certain key parties, and how hollow (or absent) the reciprocation. Just goes to show you something or other.

Yes: what it goes to show is that you didn't read my post very well, in which I clearly stated that I had gone to stay with a friend for a couple of days. That really does happen, in real life and everything. As soon as I had time, I took care to respond.

Just goes to show that you don't like me much, and view the things I say here with a jaundiced eye. You have a right to that opinion, but you happen to be wrong in your interpretation of the sincerity of my acceptances and reciprocations. You've got a right to be wrong, too, and to not know it.

I don't know what else to say to you, and don't see much point in caring about it, then.

[Ensign Steve]

Yes: what it goes to show is that you didn't read my post very well, in which I clearly stated that I had gone to stay with a friend for a couple of days.

This post? (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=48635&postcount=5) I've read it three times (not very time consuming considering how concise it is), and I still don't see anything about a friend.

Just goes to show that you don't like me much, and view the things I say here with a jaundiced eye.

Like you? I don't even know you. I view all your posts at face value.

[Sonnet]

You mean
This post? (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=48635&postcount=5) I've read it three times (not very time consuming considering how concise it is), and I still don't see anything about a friend.

No. I mean this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=48633#post48633).

Like you? I don't even know you. I view all your posts at face value.


Okey-doke.

Whoops. Meant to quote, not edit.

[Crumb]

But she had no way of hiding it in the photo gallery.

Hmm, there's an interesting idea...

[Beth]

I am very sorry that I mentioned the migrane. Once again somehow I manage to bring attention to myself by mentioning the migrane. The result: xouper's character was brought into question. I should never have griped about the avatar. I hid it soon after I saw it and his post as well. I thought nothing of it if he decided to keep the avatar, it was his choice; I chose to keep mine, he had the choice to keep his. The migrane was solely my fault, not xouper's. My first post to him about it posed blame against him. I was wrong for that and I am very sorry. Instead of saying "Thanks, xoup, flashing lights is a migrane trigger for me. Guess what... looks like Imitrex and Advil coctail will be my best friends tonight." I should have said nothing. I am a major contributor to this discord in this big blowout with my complaining. Somehow I manage to manipulate once again without meaning to. I am very sorry.

[pescifish]

Hey, after all this talk of hard to ignore flashing things, may I suggest you guys retire the "shocking" smiley? Surely it's on the dangerous side of possible triggers.

I totally said that twice already! :PHeh! I know; my first draft of that included a blatant use of a link to one of your posts to reinforce the idea. But I didn't want to drag you any possible controversy.

Besides, I know you aren't the opportunistic prick that I am to exploit this unfortunate situation and get that thing ousted. :innocent:

[kensloft]

You can disable avatars for certain individuals instead of everyone all at once. Somehow.
Ah? Ha! You are taking me to the ultimate of my avatar disabling trip. They are so pretty.

[Sonnet]

I am very sorry that I mentioned the migrane. Once again somehow I manage to bring attention to myself by mentioning the migrane. The result: xouper's character was brought into question. I should never have griped about the avatar. I hid it soon after I saw it and his post as well. I thought nothing of it if he decided to keep the avatar, it was his choice; I chose to keep mine, he had the choice to keep his. The migrane was solely my fault, not xouper's. My first post to him about it posed blame against him. I was wrong for that and I am very sorry. Instead of saying "Thanks, xoup, flashing lights is a migrane trigger for me. Guess what... looks like Imitrex and Advil coctail will be my best friends tonight." I should have said nothing. I am a major contributor to this discord in this big blowout with my complaining. Somehow I manage to manipulate once again without meaning to. I am very sorry.

Beth, it sounds almost as if you feel that speaking your mind or having an effect is somehow wrong or dishonest of you. That's not the case at all. Sometimes things get out of hand, but of all of the people involved, YOU certainly are not culpable. You had every right to say what you said. The blowout wasn't your fault. If anything, I'm very sorry the idea of your migraine became a bone of contention between others, which was unfair to you.

[Sonnet]

I meant to ask something here, but frankly I've thought better of it. :yawn:

[Seven of Nine]

I am very sorry that I mentioned the migrane. Once again somehow I manage to bring attention to myself by mentioning the migrane. The result: xouper's character was brought into question. I should never have griped about the avatar. I hid it soon after I saw it and his post as well. I thought nothing of it if he decided to keep the avatar, it was his choice; I chose to keep mine, he had the choice to keep his. The migrane was solely my fault, not xouper's. My first post to him about it posed blame against him. I was wrong for that and I am very sorry. Instead of saying "Thanks, xoup, flashing lights is a migrane trigger for me. Guess what... looks like Imitrex and Advil coctail will be my best friends tonight." I should have said nothing. I am a major contributor to this discord in this big blowout with my complaining. Somehow I manage to manipulate once again without meaning to. I am very sorry.

Beth, I don't know why you're apologising. I have a very long, lecturing (and, no doubt, irritating) post on just this subject buried somewhere here in this thread, I don't intend to apologize for it.
I don't enjoy being barred from boards I love by seizure/migraine causing stimuli, and my experience has been that the vast majority of other members don't want to do so; they do it by accident.

[livius drusus]

You weren't manipulative in the least, Beth. Put that thought right out of your head.

[Seven of Nine]

You weren't manipulative in the least, Beth. Put that thought right out of your head.

Yes, please do. :)

[Crumb]

How could you be being manipulative unless you wanted people squabbling and then misrepresented your feelings and the truth in order to get people to squabble. You can't accuse yourself of manipulation if that's not what you did.

[Sonnet]

You mean
This post? (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=48635&postcount=5) I've read it three times (not very time consuming considering how concise it is), and I still don't see anything about a friend.

No. I mean this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=48633#post48633).

Like you? I don't even know you. I view all your posts at face value.


Okey-doke.

Now, then... I'm curious: what's the correlation again between the time stamps on posts and the length of time it takes to graciously acknowledge ones' errors? I mean, obviously it says VOLUMES about one's poise and character, right?

[pescifish]

Sonnet, I know you have gone through some really horrible times lately. I hope you are able to find the peace and happiness you are looking for. I think you said some important things this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=48633#post48633):Making avatars for this forum (because I was glad to have a place to fit in and wanted to do something nice) is one of the first things I've done in the last three months that isn't directly connected in some way with pain or sorrow, and I probably reacted more strongly than I should have. That's not an excuse, just where I am right now.
It's only my opinion, but from my own experience I can say that it can easily backfire to try and get something from a large group of people when I am very vulnerable. To me it seems this offer to make avatars was an attempt to something nice and light hearted, but right under the surface, it seems like it was more of a land mine. And it blew up when some few people expressed anything less than positive for the avatars or your defensive behavior. Is it really a good idea to continue to take offense ("react more strongly than [you] should have") and pick at the situation when you've already admitted you are in a vulnerable state?

I care about you and what you are going through, Sonnet. Please take care and I hope this very thing that you hoped would be nice won't actually be something that ends up generating ill will, pain and sorrow.

[Sonnet]

Sonnet, I know you have gone through some really horrible times lately. I hope you are able to find the peace and happiness you are looking for. I think you said some important things this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=48633#post48633):Making avatars for this forum (because I was glad to have a place to fit in and wanted to do something nice) is one of the first things I've done in the last three months that isn't directly connected in some way with pain or sorrow, and I probably reacted more strongly than I should have. That's not an excuse, just where I am right now.
It's only my opinion, but from my own experience I can say that it can easily backfire to try and get something from a large group of people when I am very vulnerable. To me it seems this offer to make avatars was an attempt to something nice and light hearted, but right under the surface, it seems like it was more of a land mine. And it blew up when some few people expressed anything less than positive for the avatars or your defensive behavior. Is it really a good idea to continue to take offense ("react more strongly than [you] should have") and pick at the situation when you've already admitted you are in a vulnerable state?

I care about you and what you are going through, Sonnet. Please take care and I hope this very thing that you hoped would be nice won't actually be something that ends up generating ill will, pain and sorrow.

I appreciate your concern, truly.

By mentioning the fact that I've been sad lately, I don't mean to say that I'm not in control of how I perceive or react to things. I just mean it makes it a little less tolerable to me when I think someone's not being kind. I tried very hard to point out that it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not anyone likes my particular work or not, but just with why they'd want to take the fun out of something for no reason. My original reaction was admittedly too harsh, but the sentiment was valid.

I offered avatars just to do it, nothing more. When I say that I wanted to do something nice and not concentrate on pain and sorrow, I mean that I wanted to have a fun activity, not that my offer was some way to solicit caring and nurture. The two things are unrelated. I have to be very clear about that. This wasn't a bid for love and attention from relative strangers that backfired and caused me to lash out when I didn't feel cared for. I'm not that far gone, really. I just have Photoshop, and when a couple of people liked my avatar, I thought it might be nice to offer to build some for them. I have plenty of grief support in my real life; this was really just about playing with graphics, and something I would have done anyway, regardless of what's going on in real life. I've done it many other times on other message boards.

As a longtime member of message-board culture I know that it's easy to get a big idea about someone through a relatively minor exchange, and it seems a shame for permanent ill-will to be generated. I am, however, pretty much the way I always am on a message board in terms of addressing things that are directly addressed to me. I mean, this whole thing went on because people feel the need to reply when their character or intention or action has been called into question. I've pretty much made my peace about the avatars, but I don't intend to ignore what has been directed at me, especially when the gist of it has been (I feel) erroneously negative.

My character was questioned, I offered missing information, nothing was acknowledged - by someone who based her theories about my disposition on exactly that - she felt that I had taken too long to respond, and that the brevity of the responses she saw indicated insincerity on my part. I've shown her the things she missed, and now I see nothing indicating that she's processed the new information, which means that her mischaracterization of my intention stands. It bothered her enough to mention it when she felt I took too long and didn't say enough - isn't it reasonable to think that I might feel the same, for obvious reasons?

Thanks for your kindness. I'm concerned, too. I have no desire to generate ill-will here, but this particular poster kind of came at me from the side anyway; I wasn't talking to her to begin with, and I feel that it's she, not I, who has done the picking. Aspersion was cast on me by this person based on the same behavior I see here, and turnabout is fair play. It's not grief or vulnerability that makes me want to address that, honestly. That's just my style. I'd just as soon be peaceful, I try to fix what I break, but I also don't stand for bullshit from people who've called me on what they believe is mine. Fair is fair.

p.s. It's a difficult choice in a situation like this to feel like you have to stand up for yourself when you're relatively untried somewhere. I prefer for people to have more positive experiences with me, of course; that helps when things like this come up. Those of us who like a good debate, feel compelled to address inaccuracies and aren't afraid to be blunt have to be careful about when and how we introduce that side of ourselves.

[xouper]

Sonnet: By mentioning the fact that I've been sad lately, I don't mean to say that I'm not in control of how I perceive or react to things. I just mean it makes it a little less tolerable to me when I think someone's not being kind. I tried very hard to point out that it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not anyone likes my particular work or not, but just with why they'd want to take the fun out of something for no reason. My original reaction was admittedly too harsh, but the sentiment was valid.
For the record: My comments about the flashing avatars were NOT for "no good reason". I had a very good reason, which I explained. Flashing avatars are an annoying distraction when I am trying to read someone's post. That is not a trivial complaint. A message forum is not MTV.

My intent in expressing my opinion was not to take away anyone's fun, but to point out that sometimes one person's "fun" is another person's major annoyance.

Example: I thought my flashing avatar was fun. So did some other people. Beth did not. She complained about it, which is her right on this forum. But according to your "logic", apparently, she should have kept her mouth shut and just put my avatar on ignore and not tried to take away anyone's fun.

However, I have no problem with Beth's complaint, which in essence was no different than mine - just different in degree of annoyance. I do still have a problem with your complaint. Not only did you NOT rebuke Beth for her complaint, but you used her complaint to make some serious allegations about my character.

[Sonnet]

Not only did you NOT rebuke Beth for her complaint, but you used her complaint to make some serious allegations about my character.

Fair enough. Again, you have my apology. I shouldn't have said those things. If I could do it over, I'd approach it a different way.

[Dingfod]

A message forum is not MTV.It's not??? Fuck! I guess I'll have to find another venue for my total lack of music videos.



Personally, I think any message board is either what it's owners make it or, left unchecked, what its members make it. If that is MTV-like, then that's what it is. There are quite a few other boards that may better suit any individual's taste than this one, that one, or another one.