Hybrid cars

[Shake]

In this thread (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2102), liv mentions owning a Prius -- which just for the record, is probably the type I'd get. I was wondering if anyone else owns a hybrid fuel vehicle, or knows someone who does. For any non-owners, have you ridden in one?

How do you like it, liv? How's maintenance so far? I imagine you'd have to go back to the dealer for most problems.

I pulled onto an uphill on ramp behind one last summer and was impressed with how well it accelerated -- not as well as my Jeep with the 4.0L engine, but not bad! I'd imagine they're pretty darn quiet too. Anyway, can't beat the mileage! Especially since I saw this photo on Yahoo! news today of a sign showing $3+/gal somewhere in CA, IIRC. :eek:

The wife and I plan on building a house within the next couple of years and it's going to add about 30 min. to each of our commutes, so I was thinking of getting a hybrid for one of us (we gotta keep the minivan, though), to keep the gas costs minimized.

[Goliath]

My next vehicle (which I'll probably get in about 4-6 years or so) will be a hybrid SUV. IMO, gas prices are too ridiculous to not consider buying a hybrid, and by the time I'll be ready to trade my car in, hybrids will probably become more common and (hopefully) cheaper.

[Blake]

As the primary owner-operator of the Blako-livian Prius, lemme field those questions. She's a lovely, lovely car. Maintenance is almost nonexistent; we bought her with a deal for free regular maintenance at the dealership, and that's all that's been needed except for some owner-generated stuff (I never rotated the tires, so they had to be replaced 20,000 miles earlier than necessary and rebalanced). It does worry me slightly that I'm not aware of anyplace besides the dealership that might be able to deal with any issues. Still, hybrids are becoming more common, and through an unfortunate series of events I am aware that for body work, anyway, other people can handle it.

Yes, they're real quiet. The best part is when you come to a stop without the air running, and the engine turns itself off. :) Filling up every two to three weeks is absolutely peachy, of course, and ours is actually on the low end of import hybrid efficiency. (I don't know what kind of mileage Ford hybrids & whatnot get; ours, the 2002 model, gets about 45 mpg; the 2003s and up are advertised at 60 mpg, and the Honda Insight gets something insane like 85! The Insight was just too small for us, though; had to have a four-door.)

[Dingfod]

I've gotten as high as 99 mpg on my Chevy Trailblazer instantaneous mpg on a long downhill stretch.

Honda Insight does not test nearly that high, 60 city, 69 highway. I've visited some of those Insight message boards and you'd think they were bragging about quarter mile times. I'd bet if I babied one on my 11 mile, 40 mph, 6 stoplight commute I could get it up over 80 mpg too. That's not real world driving for most people.

Toyota Prius, more powerful than the Insight, is also rated at 60 city, but only 51 on the highway (10 mpg better than a Toyota Echo) and it seats four instead of just two. Of course, you could almost buy 2 ECHOs for the price of one Prius.

Honda Civic Hybrid sedan is EPA rated at 48. Civic HX hatchback is rated at 44 and costs more than $6000 less. With that price premium, it means that even at $3 a gallon, that's 2000 gallons, or about 88000 miles of driving before the Hybrid has moved an inch.

Ford Escape Hybrid front wheel drive is quite a bit better than it's non-hybrid counterpart, rated at 36 city, 31 highway, compared to 24 city, 29 highway. The 4WD model hybrid is rated 33 city, 29 highway, still quite efficient by comparison. The best part of the Ford is the hybrid model is only about $2000 more than the regular one. That means it most likely will pay you the difference in a very short time where the others with a higher price premium won't for a couple hundred thousand miles.

But, to me the neatest hybrid on the market right now is the Honda Accord Hybrid with acceleration a half-second faster than their fastest non-hybrid model, 0-60 mph in 7.5 seconds (which matches my Chevy Trailblazer) but gets 29 mpg city and 37 mpg highway, which closely matches the 1995 Ford Taurus V-6 I owned which got 30 mpg in the city (real life) and 36 mpg on highway trips (wish I had kept that one).

[seebs]

I have an Insight. Love it to pieces. The electric motor gives it substantial punch on the low end. It's a little sluggish at freeway speeds, but something most people don't realize is how insanely broad the gear ranges are. 2nd gear can start the car on a level surface easily enough, and can get you up to about 60mph if you want.

I have been very happy with it, since I got it nearly 4 years ago, and will probably get another if/when it dies.

[Corona688]

Pardon me if this sounds like a silly question, but given most of the transmission system's been more or less ripped out and replaced with an electric motor it seems relevant to me. What's gearshifting like on a hybrid? Do they have less gears, no gears, are they all stick shift or are there automatics, etc.

[Dingfod]

I have an Insight. [...] The electric motor gives it substantial punch on the low end.The extra 79 lbs/ft of torque between 0-1500 rpm do make a difference, especially since the gas motor only has 66 lbs/ft. The Toyota Prius has a lot more oomph, it's electric motor provides a very V-8-like 285 lbs/ft of torque 0-1500 rpm.

It's a little sluggish at freeway speeds, ...Any car with only 66 horsepower on tap is going to be a little sluggish at highway speeds. My parents used to have a Renault Encore that routinely got over 50 mpg on the highway (a few long trips averaged 55 mpg) and over 40 in town. Then again, with my dad driving, my Toyota Corolla got over 40 mpg when I never got more than 37 out of it. The Encore had a wide-ratio four speed transmission; first gear was geared insanely low for rapid acceleration from a standing start to about 15 mph, then it was a long stretch to second gear and it's top two gears were overdrives. And with only about 60 horsepower it was very sluggish at highway speeds.

... but something most people don't realize is how insanely broad the gear ranges are.I've been pretty amazed by the Ford Focus we bought in that regard, it will take off in second gear on level ground and you can take it down to 15 mph in 5th gear then accelerate without lugging the engine at all. It has the most tractable motor I've ever had in a car.

... 2nd gear can start the car on a level surface easily enough, and can get you up to about 60mph if you want.And the CVT model will accelerate from standstill to top speed without shifting even one gear.

I have been very happy with it, since I got it nearly 4 years ago, and will probably get another if/when it dies.Good. What is the average mpg since you got it? Many people are complaining they are unable to achieve the EPA ratings on it, so I'm just curious.



So what is GM doing for innovative vehicles besides destroying all the EV-1 electic cars? A hybrid Silverado pickup truck that gets 18 mpg instead of 16 mpg city mileage but the same highway mileage, 21 mpg. The cool things about it are the 120 volt power outlets in the cab and in the bed and it's ability to serve as a power station in remote areas.

[Shake]

Those Escape Hybrid numbers are good for an SUV, but I remember getting nearly 40mpg (highway, mind you) in our 4-door Saturn SL1 that we had when we were first married.

Yeah, I'd also like a 4-door.

[Ymir's blood]

Hybrid cars and other miscegenations are an offense unto Nature!

:mob: :protest: :mob: :protest:

[Clutch Munny]

... Blako-livian ...

O/T

You kill me. Am I too easily amused?

[Dingfod]

Those Escape Hybrid numbers are good for an SUV, but I remember getting nearly 40mpg (highway, mind you) in our 4-door Saturn SL1 that we had when we were first married.

Yeah, I'd also like a 4-door.I remember when an American built "economy" car was luck to get 27 mpg. *cough* Chevy Vega *cough* Ford Pinto *cough*

I also remember trading a 1979 Chevy Monte Carlo 3.3L V-6 that got 28-29 mpg on the highway for a supposed economical 1981 Chevy Chevette. The best we ever got in the Chevette was 30 mpg. After just four months I traded that Crapheap for a 1981 Pontiac Bonneville 4.3L V-8 that got 25 mpg highway, five mpg wasn't enough of a premium to be worth being stuffed into a sardine tin.

[Blake]

Pardon me if this sounds like a silly question, but given most of the transmission system's been more or less ripped out and replaced with an electric motor it seems relevant to me. What's gearshifting like on a hybrid? Do they have less gears, no gears, are they all stick shift or are there automatics, etc.
I can't speak to all hybrids, not being nearly so well-informed as Warren (nice info, and especially nice analysis, Warren!), but the Prius has what they call a continuous transmission, i.e. no gears. Functionally, there's almost no difference from an automatic.

I think it is important to remember that hybrids are hardly the be-all and end-all of gas efficiency. I was shocked to discover that there was virtually no difference between our Prius and our friend's Jetta, for example.

(O/T--I'd rather think that I'm just terribly brilliant, Clutch. ;) After all, these things don't just pop into my mind unsolicited; I actually thought of that adjective for an OP I haven't written yet, on the evolution of the Blako-livian gastronomie.)

[ceptimus]

Fuel in the UK is well over five dollars a gallon. :eek:

Even so, not many people find it economical to run hybrid cars here right now - the initial cost is just too high, and the payback period is too long.

However, most people run small (by American standards) cars with stick-shift transmission, 45 mpg is common. Also, small turbo diesel engines are now quite popular here. A typical moderate-sized turbo diesel will do about 110 mph, around 10 seconds 0-60 time, and return over 50mpg.

I've not replaced my car since it was written off in an accident at the end of last year. I've been getting to and from work walking, cycling and using the bus. So I'm greener than you. :P

[seebs]

What is the average mpg since you got it? Many people are complaining they are unable to achieve the EPA ratings on it, so I'm just curious.

I'm getting around 53. It may actually be 51, I think the readout is about 5% high, based on gas purchased. But I live in MN, so about 6 months of the year, it's too cold for the engine to shut down, and about 6 months, it's too hot to drive without AC.

If I pay attention, I can get better milage, but I don't care that much; 50+ is fine by me.

We went to Seattle and back (around 3000 miles) on 55 gallons of gas.

[Dingfod]

Hybrids are no miracle cure for sure, but they are a step in the right direction. Someone has to be more economical to offset people like me buying big-ole Vee-ATE poward ESSUEVEES.