Parents & Parenting

[Cliche Guevara]

Are parents just jealous of their own lost youth - the youth that their kids have found for themselves (and don't fancy sharing with their no-longer-wildly-youthful parents - 'cos parents are of the establishment, man)?

Gimme yer experiences people. Every bit helps - the more positive "non-conformist" stories, the better. :-)



Thanks, man. Thanks, peops. I'm so old, I swear I'm a paranoid crinkly. Fo'shame, me. :hippie:

[LadyShea]

:scratch: kinda unsure the starting point here or exactly what you're looking for. Experiences as parents? As kids? As adult kids of non conformist parents? As non conformist parents?

[Qingdai]

Yes, I also need a starting point.

Although I could just ask, "for it or against it", parents and parenting that is,...


Old family joke.

[ITSOZAZ]

it's true...i really wish i could still shit and piss in my pants, have somebody change me and never think i was any less cute for soiling myself.

[Leesifer]

If it helps, Petra, I started getting on much better with my parents once I was out of my teens.

Also, there's no way I shared everything with them while in my teens (even pre-teen, after about age 11). Because obviously, they wouldn't understand. :wink:

From experience and from other anecdotes, girl teenagers are definitely worse than boy teenagers. And I doubt you're really jealous.

I hope this is what you were getting at. Otherwise, ignore me.

[Dingfod]

I've got nothing. I'm an utter dismal failure on the parenting thing. And, well, life in general too.

[LadyShea]

When I was 12 -14 I was terrible to my mom. I was going through puberty and thought I knew everything and she -a California 60's liberal activist type- was trying to find a place in a conservative small town in the 80's.

When I was about 15 I guess, she had kinda had it with the conservative (and very judgmental) moms in our new town...we had some honest talks about what the lives of those women were really like, and what their kids (and husbands) were really up to.

She felt better and realized she wasn't a horrible mom for going with her gut and not banning books and music and whatever was the parental vogue, and I felt better having my old mom back, and knowing I could be honest with her (to a point, we all need our own stuff).

We were friends after that, and my house was a haven for those kids of those other moms. I called my mom in the middle of the night more than once to pick me up, because I didn't have a sober ride home, or a situation was making me uncomfortable. Dad was a little slower in letting go, but followed moms lead.

By the time I was a junior in high school, I no longer had a curfew, I worked for my own spending money, was a good student etc. When I was in my late teens and early twenties I chose to spend time with my folks. I got married younger than any of my friends, and hubby and I even vacationed and spent New Year's Eve with my parents.

Mom lived with us for about a year after she and dad got done with their RVing sabbatical, and they were fixing to move cross country permanently. When we decided to live closer to family, we moved to my parents neighborhood.

Don't forget, not only is she growing up and finding her own identity and place in the world, YOU are trying to find your place in a post wild youth, post mother-of-small-child world. That's gotta be a bit scary...but it's also an opportunity. We can't recapture our youth, but we can make our present and future meaningful and fulfilling in their own right.

Be gentle to yourself. Be open to the new experiences, be honest with her, celebrate that you are both growing and are, from my vantage point, awesome people.

[lisarea]

What can she do that you can't, though?

She has more freedom in one way, because she doesn't have the responsibilities you do; but on the other hand, she's a minor and a dependent and you're not.

Is there any way you could get, say, a weekend off on your own to do whatever it is that you miss doing?

[livius drusus]

My parents had me when they were 35, so there was no recapturing of youth going on in their laying down the law. My parents were way too strict from my perspective -- you practically had to file a notarized application in triplicate to spend the night and I still had an 11:00 pm curfew my senior year in high school -- but they were kind and loving and my friends, who all had way younger parents, thought their old-fashioned ways were adorable.

My friend Silvia still reminisces fondly over my dad's raisin bread, and Mirta, who had a supercool friend kind of mom loved nothing more than to come over and bake cookies with my supernice mom kind of mom.

I doubt this is terribly relevant to whatever it is you're looking for, Pets, but I guess my point is that things can go a million different ways in families. Dynamics shift and we learn to adapt. As long as there's love and respect underpinning our attempts to deal, we get through it together.

[Cliche Guevara]

Sorry about my slow response - I forgot I even started this thread - too much wine at my sister's birthday dinner. :o

What happened at the time was that Zoe had told me that she and her friend hadn't gone out that night (she was staying at her friend's house, 'cos having dinner in a restaurant with us grown ups was too boring) and that they'd stayed in watching movies. Of course, I found out that she was actually at a boy racer protest rally having a blast. It pissed me off, because she doesn't need to lie to me - I'm really easy going - too easy going, maybe. Even when I'm worried out of my mind.

Also, I was somewhat pissed off that she didn't call me to let me know something exciting and totally photo worthy was going on. I'd have got my aged ass there in a flash and had some fun with my camera.

Thankfully, though, she tells Penny everything (my dad's daughter, who's 20 yrs old). I don't let Zoe know that Penny tells her mum everything and it [sometimes] gets back to me - because if I do, she might stop telling Penny everything and I'd rather have someone close know what she's up to than none of us knowing anything.

Teenagers are hard.

[Ernie Lundquist]

She's not keeping things from you because you're harsh or unreasonable. She's just keeping things from you because you're her mother, and that's what teenagers do. Pulling away from their parents is an integral part of becoming independent adults.

She'll still come to you if it's something big, or if she needs help. Keeping the Penny line open doesn't hurt, though.

Congratulations, Petra! Your daughter is blossoming into a perfectly normal, healthy, slightly obnoxious young woman!

[Cliche Guevara]

Obnoxious may well be the understatement of the year! lol


I can't be doing too badly, though. She told me that she is going to live with me forever.


Oh, god.... :rughide:

[Leesifer]

She's not keeping things from you because you're harsh or unreasonable. She's just keeping things from you because you're her mother, and that's what teenagers do. Pulling away from their parents is an integral part of becoming independent adults.

She'll still come to you if it's something big, or if she needs help. Keeping the Penny line open doesn't hurt, though.

Congratulations, Petra! Your daughter is blossoming into a perfectly normal, healthy, slightly obnoxious young woman!

This!

My Mum was (still is) pretty cool, and I'd come home from school or going out in my early teens to find a gang of my school friends at my house that had come to see my Mum - not me! She'd feed and water them and I'd be all like "omg, how embarrassing", because at the time I didn't think my Mum was cool at all.

I still wouldn't invite her out on a boy racer protest rally though. :wink:

[Cliche Guevara]

Yeah, her friends all call me "mum" or "aunty Petra". It's kinda cute.

[yguy]

It pissed me off, because she doesn't need to lie to meThat's not the reason. It made you angry because she failed to act in accordance with your will. IOW, you're a bit like the angry OT god you look on with such disdain.

[Cliche Guevara]

I am?


Good grief!

[yguy]

I am?Aren't we all? Weren't your parents ever like that?


Good grief!Don't get too bent out of shape over it. To look it in the face is to begin to overcome it.

[Cliche Guevara]

I'm not bent out of shape. I'm actually smiling, quite broadly.


The one thing I totally forgot to do wrt to Zoe's lie was to punish her severely. Or at all, actually. I suck.


And whacking her with the wooden spoon or the back of a hairbrush till it breaks is illegal here now, so I can't "teach her a lesson" in quite the same way my mum was able to teach me. Times have really changed!

[yguy]

I'm actually smiling, quite broadly.Then I'd say you missed the point.The one thing I totally forgot to do wrt to Zoe's lie was to punish her severely. Or at all, actually.If you had, she'd have known you were doing it for yourself rather than her, just as she knew you were angry on your own account rather than for her sake. Whatever action (or inaction) springs from that kind of anger will be wrong every time.

[Cliche Guevara]

...just as she knew you were angry on your own account rather than for her sake.

She still doesn't know that I know.

Whatever action (or inaction) springs from that kind of anger will be wrong every time.

Damned if you do, dammed if you don't.

[yguy]

...just as she knew you were angry on your own account rather than for her sake.

She still doesn't know that I know. It doesn't matter, because that anger will eventually betray itself. You'll get mad at her for something stupid and thus undermine your own parental authority - or you'll be "too easygoing" so as to avoid becoming an ogre, which will make that authority irrelevant.

Whatever action (or inaction) springs from that kind of anger will be wrong every time.

Damned if you do, dammed if you don't.But not just you. Zoe goes along for the ride, unless you break the cycle.

[Cliche Guevara]

So what do you prescribe? What cycle should I be breaking, and how do you suggest I break it?

[yguy]

So what do you prescribe? What cycle should I be breaking, The cycle of parents imposing their will on their children, who grow up to do the same to their children, and so on.and how do you suggest I break it?There is no point in me saying anything along those lines unless you agree that my assessment is in the ballpark...so do you?

[Cliche Guevara]

But I can't agree with you, yguy. I'm nothing like my own mother as a parent. So that 'cycle' is already broken (I believe) - in my home anyway.

I grew up with a mother more strict than liv's father (but thankfully not as strict as maddog's!) and I'd never ever talk to her about anything because she was all foaming at the mouth, and no ears.

I may be deluded, but I'm pretty sure I'm more ears, less mouth. I certainly try to not just hear her, but actively listen to her. Do I get pissed off and hurt when she lies to me? Hell yes! But I'm more likely to quietly say "please don't lie to me, Zoe, there's no need" rather go off on a rant. (I do, however, rant a bit when I've just spent a few hours cleaning the place and she wanders in and takes all of 5 minutes to trash it... :whup: )


But I really don't think I need to agree with you for you to tell me what you prescribe as good parenting.

[Dingfod]

She's not keeping things from you because you're harsh or unreasonable. She's just keeping things from you because you're her mother, and that's what teenagers do. Pulling away from their parents is an integral part of becoming independent adults.

She'll still come to you if it's something big, or if she needs help. Keeping the Penny line open doesn't hurt, though.

Congratulations, Petra! Your daughter is blossoming into a perfectly normal, healthy, slightly obnoxious young woman!:yeahthat:

Exactly what she said.

[yguy]

But I can't agree with you, yguy. I'm nothing like my own mother as a parent. So that 'cycle' is already broken (I believe) - in my home anyway.

I grew up with a mother more strict than liv's father (but thankfully not as strict as maddog's!) and I'd never ever talk to her about anything because she was all foaming at the mouth, and no ears.

I may be deluded, but I'm pretty sure I'm more ears, less mouth. I certainly try to not just hear her, but actively listen to her. I wish to God I could find the Jules Feiffer cartoon I saw decades ago that featured a woman reflecting on her mother's parenting vs her own. She starts out saying something like, "Mother was critical; I was supportive. Mother was cold and distant; I was affectionate." It goes on like that for several panels until she finally says, "Now my daughter is all grown up - and the spitting image of Mother."Do I get pissed off and hurt when she lies to me? Hell yes! So did your mother, and it's nothing but an ego problem on her part and yours. And no way can a child respect a parent who can be tweaked in such fashion, as much as he or she may want to.But I really don't think I need to agree with you for you to tell me what you prescribe as good parenting.I have no formulas to give you, Petra. If you see the problem clearly, the proper course of action will reveal itself in short order; and if there is no problem, I'm just wasting your time.

[Cliche Guevara]

...a woman reflecting on her mother's parenting vs her own. She starts out saying something like, "Mother was critical; I was supportive. Mother was cold and distant; I was affectionate." It goes on like that for several panels until she finally says, "Now my daughter is all grown up - and the spitting image of Mother."

:laugh: I like that.

Do I get pissed off and hurt when she lies to me? Hell yes! So did your mother, and it's nothing but an ego problem on her part and yours. And no way can a child respect a parent who can be tweaked in such fashion, as much as he or she may want to.

Perhaps it is an ego thing; I certainly see it as a [albeit minor] betrayal. But it's also a safety thing. If she has lied to me about where she is going, and then there's some trouble, would she call me to rescue her? I hope she would, and I think she would...but would she if it meant getting caught out? That has yet to be tested.

I have no formulas to give you, Petra. If you see the problem clearly, the proper course of action will reveal itself in short order; and if there is no problem, I'm just wasting your time.

You're not wasting my time. I asked for opinions and advice as others see it, and you offered yours. I may not entirely agree with you, but my time has not been wasted because you gave me cause to reflect a little more. :yup:

[Cliche Guevara]

If you see the problem clearly,...

btw, this is sometimes extremely difficult to do. A case in point is one of her good friend's - a 16 year old boy who's funeral we will sadly be attending tomorrow.

Barton was a star. He was a snowboarding champion, a water polo champion, a high academic achiever, and extremely popular. The kid had everything going for him - he was an awesome young man, always appearing to be happy and bright. He shot himself on Monday night and was taken off life support on Tuesday afternoon. He was the last person I would have pegged as a suicide candidate. :sadcheer:


Teens are complicated and you just never know. You can't know. And therein lies the fear.

[yguy]

Do I get pissed off and hurt when she lies to me? Hell yes! So did your mother, and it's nothing but an ego problem on her part and yours. And no way can a child respect a parent who can be tweaked in such fashion, as much as he or she may want to.

Perhaps it is an ego thing; I certainly see it as a [albeit minor] betrayal. I'm saying the ego problem is yours, not Zoe's. Not that she doesn't have one like anyone else, but you can't begin to address hers before you face your own.But it's also a safety thing... Sure, I get all that, but nothing will drive her away from you like your own impatience.

[Cliche Guevara]

I'm saying the ego problem is yours, not Zoe's. Not that she doesn't have one like anyone else, but you can't begin to address hers before you face your own.Oh, I got that you were saying it was my ego problem. I was just confirming that by saying that I see it as a betrayal (which can be an ego issue with the one who feels betrayed). Sure, I get all that, but nothing will drive her away from you like your own impatience.

lol, that's funny because I sometimes wonder if I'm too patient with her. (Except when she trashes the place in 5 minutes after I've just spent a few hours on the housework, of course.)

I'm pretty sure I'm not driving her away - she's just growing up and getting all teenagery, I guess. We're still very close - despite her occasional untruths about where she is.

[yguy]

If you see the problem clearly,...

btw, this is sometimes extremely difficult to do. A case in point is one of her good friend's - a 16 year old boy who's funeral we will sadly be attending tomorrow.

Barton was a star. He was a snowboarding champion, a water polo champion, a high academic achiever, and extremely popular. The kid had everything going for him - he was an awesome young man, always appearing to be happy and bright. He shot himself on Monday night and was taken off life support on Tuesday afternoon. He was the last person I would have pegged as a suicide candidate. :sadcheer:More than likely he was afraid to stop living up to others' expectations and hated himself for not being real. If his parents were selfish they would have had a vested interest in the maintenance of the illusion for their own sense of self-esteem.

[Cliche Guevara]

More than likely he was afraid to stop living up to others' expectations and hated himself for not being real. If his parents were selfish they would have had a vested interest in the maintenance of the illusion for their own sense of self-esteem.

It is possible. He was also recently rejected by a girl, so that may have been a catalyst also.

A terrible tragedy, whichever way the wind blows. Heartbreaking.

[yguy]

I sometimes wonder if I'm too patient with her. Impossible. Patience doesn't mean letting people walk all over you, it means you're not an extension of their emotions; i.e., whatever you do comes from a sense of what is right, whether you say nothing or split some child molester's head open with a baseball bat. :)

[Cliche Guevara]

Oh, shit! That's where I've been doing it all wrong! *epiphany moment*

I always thought patience was letting people walk all over me. :darn:


:)


Anyway, I'm going to wander off for a bit. I've gone and got myself a bit tearful. Shouldn't have mentioned Barton. And it was wrong of me to use him to make a point. I gotta go to the redwoods for a wee bit and feel the rain through the trees, smell the wet earth, and just breathe.

:deepsigh:

[LadyShea]

What's a boy racer protest rally?

Look Pets, I would advise you have a very general talk with her. Let her know that your main concern is her well being and that she needs to be honest with you, to a point. Ask her thoughts on how an honest relationship, with plenty of room for independence, might look and how best to facilitate that.

Maybe it's nothing more than getting her a phone (if she doesn't have one), and that she promises to answer when you call. Call randomly for a while "just testing -I love you", no interrogation, to build up trust between you. Maybe you could promise her, as my mom did me, that middle of the night pick ups are free...no questions asked other than for triage (do you need medical attention, legal assistance, or police protection?).

Definitely, definitely talk about this suicide. Obviously that poor kid's life was not so great from the inside and/or he had undiagnosed and undetected mental health issues. Appearances of perfection are often nothing more than elaborate sets. Talk to her about the weirdness of teenagerness, ask her about the pressures of school and her social circle. Ask her if she has any ideas or thoughts about why he did it. It will help you both.

[Cliche Guevara]

What's a boy racer protest rally?

Boy racers to face court - Newstalk ZB (http://www.newstalk.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyID=163402)

Look Pets, I would advise you have a very general talk with her. Let her know that your main concern is her well being and that she needs to be honest with you, to a point. Ask her thoughts on how an honest relationship, with plenty of room for independence, might look and how best to facilitate that.

I will do that. Thanks.

Maybe it's nothing more than getting her a phone (if she doesn't have one), and that she promises to answer when you call. Call randomly for a while "just testing -I love you", no interrogation, to build up trust between you. Maybe you could promise her, as my mom did me, that middle of the night pick ups are free...no questions asked other than for triage (do you need medical attention, legal assistance, or police protection?).

She has a phone, which is a prepaid one. But I have it set up with Telecom so that, even if she has no money left on it, she can still call home for free. I've made sure her friends know that they call me any time of the day or night, too, and I will get them or talk to them or whatever it is they need to stay out of trouble.

She has 600 contacts on that thing! When I asked her about how she has so many contacts, she replied "mum, my name is not "Nigel no-mates" y'know!". But then she explained that she is still in touch with old school friends from Hamilton and Auckland, has friends in Tauranga and Mt. Maunganui that she does Air & Sea Cadets with, and of course everyone she knows in Rotorua. Crikey, I can't drive around town with without her spotting friends in cars everywhere. "Oh, there's <insert friend>! Hi, <friend>! Give him/her a toot, mummy!"

When I let her go to parties, she is quite sensible, so I'm grateful for that. I'll get some of her friends to meet here, take them to the party, let them know that they must call me if there is any trouble or they start to feel uncomfortable, and I will get them. Otherwise I will pick them up at midnight. On one occasion, she and her friends did call me at around 10.30 to tell me that some people they thought were a bit scary had shown up and so I went and got her.

I also let her friends take in a bottle of something alcoholic to drink, so that they don't get hassled to "have a drink". This seems to work quite well, so far. She's never drunk when I pick her up, and is aware of things like "rape drugs" getting slipped into drinks. So far so good. :crossed:

Definitely, definitely talk about this suicide. Obviously that poor kid's life was not so great from the inside and/or he had undiagnosed and undetected mental health issues. Appearances of perfection are often nothing more than elaborate sets. Talk to her about the weirdness of teenagerness, ask her about the pressures of school and her social circle. Ask her if she has any ideas or thoughts about why he did it. It will help you both.

I think he couldn't handle rejection, starting drinking some spirits, and in one crazy moment - with the help of some alcohol - he did it. Perhaps if he had waited maybe only another 10 minutes, that crazy moment might have passed and while he'd still feel the pain of unrequited love, he would have perhaps started the road to "getting over it". But he never gave himself that chance. :sadcheer: