Why Are Spammers So Hot For Us?

[livius drusus]

We're a small board with few readers and even fewer posters. Our Google pagerank is negligible, so what it is about FF which makes us such a tasty morsel for spammers?

I PMd one of them once to alert him to the rule violation. He actually answered me, but it wasn't very illuminating. More of a veiled threat really.

Anyway, if somebody knows what makes spammers tick, I'd be seriously obliged to hear it.

[Seven of Nine]

They need attention badly but nly think to get it in a negative way by being as disruptive as possible, so we mustn't feed them no matter how tempted we are. If we don't, they'll move on!
That admin Ignore feature which causes only the poster to be able to see his posts is perfect for spammers like this, so that no one can possibly respond to their posts. Since this is an unmoderated forum, we members simply must have the self control to do that on our own.

A group of people raiding from another board is a somewhat different story. Do you want to know more about raiders, too?
(I'm Ms. Off-Topic, you know! ;)

I hape you can read this because I can't. :(

[slimshady2357]

They need attention badly but nly think to get it in a negative way by being as disruptive as possible, so we mustn't feed them no matter how tempted we are. If we don't, they'll move on!

AMEN! :yup: :yup: :yup:

More will come, I'm sure, but we'll treat them the same. Ignore the bastards.

I hape you can read this because I can't. :(

Did someone say something? :beady:

Adam

[livius drusus]

Ooh! Raiders! I'd like to hear about them too, but I'm afraid you can't see me saying so.

[Seven of Nine]

Ooh! Raiders! I'd like to hear about them too, but I'm afraid you can't see me saying so.

LOL! I can read finished post better than when I try to reply. They must be short, like this one for me to recall them verbatim--but I DON'T want anyone to shorten their posts so that most of the fun of reading them is lost for me, okay? :)

What i can't afford to do is try to reread my own posts to revise and correct my OWN replies, and it's a bad idea right now for me to use any smilies for which I haven't haven't memorised the codes, so, because I have a nerological disorder which gives me problems posting clearly, I'm a bit worried about whether my replies will be understandable.
eek. yikes.

A board called pointless waste of time dot com set up a scam to target LOTR boards by writing a a very negative and apparently ignaorant review of the Film Fellowship of the Ring. The board at which I worked had it\'s Tolkien news section on its front page and our "newself" was SO good that we had the best news section of any Tolkein board in English on the internet, plus other members could contribute articles, too, but we had it set up so that our "Newself" and any filling in for her could check them for fair usuage of articles and such before displaying them.
SO--being the fine researcher that she was, she found this bogus review right away and posted it, and there were many many comments from our members about it.
Using this, they somehow traced that we had it (she may very well have asked permission to use it!), and a number of them joined us from a friday evening to Sunday night one weekend, and guess what? You got it! I was the only mod on during that entire time. It was a relaxed PG-13 site because we have a very young membership whose parents might ban their internet use entirely if they caught them reading a site with very muchvulgar language, and these guys had a comand of English which enabled them to be incredibly crude in getting around the nanny program!
They didn't spam the whole board, but just posted on the News page because they mistakenly believed that because they couldn't start new threads on the News page that they couldn't start them anywhere, and this was a good thing because when I went to the mod's control panel to swith them over to the Universal Ignore option, it didn't function, and when I tried to ban them until the webmaster and owner got back from his weekend trip, that didn't work either.
When all of our younger girls who came online during this, I had to somehow PM them to explain and warn them to stay off the news page if their parents might looks over their shoulders, or if they found it difficult to have their supposed sexual habits discussed in great and inventive detail (what they had my imaginary husband doing to me was far worse than what my real one had ever tried on, which I found quite impressive).
While I was Pming, I also had to get and keep the attention of all of them, so that they would stay on the news page, because if they chnged pages and found they could spam threads there was no way I could keep up with them.
and then there was the worm they planted...
Am I boring you yet, liv? I don't want to do that and I can't afford to edit this story!! :(

You know, even though I can barely see that yawning smiley, he still makes me yawn in response. I'm SO GLAD that no one uses him much!

[livius drusus]

Not bored in the least. Quite fascinated, in fact. I've got to trot off to work now, but I think when I have a moment I'll start a thread asking about everyone's favorite discussion board anecdotes.

Take care of those eyes, Seven. :huggle:

[Seven of Nine]

Not bored in the least. Quite fascinated, in fact. I've got to trot off to work now, but I think when I have a moment I'll start a thread asking about everyone's favorite discussion board anecdotes.

Take care of those eyes, Seven. :huggle:

That would be way fun! Maybe I could post that link to the Happy Spammer there? That's so unusual! LOL

[Corona688]

I suspect we've been put on someone's list, and spammers who get said list are defecating on us in due course.

Motivation for spam is greed, pure and simple. They get paid to abuse other people's boards and mailboxes, and think that the convenience of the job(for them) makes everything A-OK. When you actually moderate the forum, you're interfering with their livelihood, so out come the threats etc.

[Seven of Nine]

I suspect we've been put on someone's list, and spammers who get said list are defecating on us in due course.

Motivation for spam is greed, pure and simple. They get paid to abuse other people's boards and mailboxes, and think that the convenience of the job(for them) makes everything A-OK.

Corona, that's fascinating! I've never before heard of anyone being paid to spam.
I can see that if you were cartain kind of person, this job would be ideal; you'd be getting paid for what you love doing already: being one of life's shit disturbers, like my pals from pointless waste, but why would anyone pay people to spam boards, especially smaller ones? What motivates them?????

[LadyShea]

Unfortunately, some people respond to SPAM, they'll go buy the products being advertised and it doesn't cost the spammers a dime. If people weren't stupid, spammers wouldn't make money.

Unfortunately, people are what they are. Sad really.

Why they think FF is the place to go, I can't imagine. This isn't a stupid bunch likely to go buy whatever it is...however, we talk about everything, and whatever spiders they send out looking for specific words must get us on a hit list.

[Corona688]

Corona, that's fascinating! I've never before heard of anyone being paid to spam.
I can see that if you were cartain kind of person, this job would be ideal; you'd be getting paid for what you love doing already: being one of life's shit disturbers, like my pals from pointless waste, but why would anyone pay people to spam boards, especially smaller ones? What motivates them?????I mean spam as in unsolicited advertisements, not just plain shitstirrers. The latter, in my highly limited experience, tend to be bored adolescents with a common chip on their shoulder. I doubt those people even checked with the author to see if the article had been used without permission, their version of "vigilante justice" being more entertaining.

The former, people who're paid to distribute unwanted advertisements, are harder to pin down. I read an article which I'm unable to find right this moment but I found illuminating(if unhelpful in solving the problem).. they interviewed a few actual spammers(with guaranteed anonymity, of course) to find out why they do what they do.

What it comes down to is, spamming is actually not all that bad as jobs go. Pay is not staggering but way better than flipping burgers if you're good at it, startup is easy and costs are minimal, risks are low, hours are whatever the hell you want them to be, you can work from home, you can start and quit whenever you like, your creativity is constantly challenged to come up with brave new ways to penetrate spam filters...

Some students put themselves through college with it. Some parents find it extremely convenient to be able to work from home and raise their children instead of parking them at daycare all day everyday. Others make it a buffer between jobs. Some are combinations of the above -- one of the interviewees lost his source of income due to a work injury, took up spamming as a buffer and decided to become a stay-at-home dad. And of course there's probably many more reasons. You get the idea -- they're human.

I still call it greed, though. Just because it's easy and convenient doesn't make it the right thing to do.

What motivates people to pay them? That's simpler. They pay because it works. A one-in-ten-thousand response rate is acceptable when you're sending out millions of spams.

[Shake]

I don't know, but can't you close/lock threads here? Either instead of or in addition to putting "<spam>" in the thread title?

[TomJoe]

Spam and eggs.

w00t!

[MonCapitan2002]

We're a small board with few readers and even fewer posters. Our Google pagerank is negligible, so what it is about FF which makes us such a tasty morsel for spammers?

I PMd one of them once to alert him to the rule violation. He actually answered me, but it wasn't very illuminating. More of a veiled threat really.

Anyway, if somebody knows what makes spammers tick, I'd be seriously obliged to hear it.
I don't know what makes them tick, but why not ban them for spamming? Wouldn't that solve the problem? If you do not want to do that, you could create a New User Usergroup. Members of that group would not be able to create topics until reaching a certain number of posts. This is done on RPGamer and was done on RPGFan as well. While I understand and acknowledge that this forum is an unmoderated one, I do think this would be an equitable solution. At the very least, having such a requirement would deter most spammers since they wouldn't be able to create spam topics at the outset.

[viscousmemories]

I don't know, but can't you close/lock threads here? Either instead of or in addition to putting "<spam>" in the thread title?
We could, but we don't really see any reason to restrict anyone who might want to take a shot at the spammer or otherwise turn a useless thread into an interesting one. Since the real problem is with the link or product mention itself (whether in the title or thread body), we feel its a reasonable compromise to just remove that and leave the thread open.

I don't know what makes them tick, but why not ban them for spamming? Wouldn't that solve the problem?
Naturally with free expression being one of our founding principles we hate the idea of banning. However it is our policy to ban someone after three rule violations, so any member who posts SPAM three times (in addition to having the SPAM itself removed) will be banned.

And just a general FYI for anyone who doesn't know... a lot of people SPAM with no regard for the humans who will read it. They just want to spread their links around the Internet so search engines will pick it up and make whatever site lies at the root of the tree rank higher. Usually the only reason they write it to appear like they're actually engaging people is to prevent it from being immediately deleted.

[livius drusus]

I don't know what makes them tick, but why not ban them for spamming? Wouldn't that solve the problem?

I don't think it would, actually. The problem isn't the same person coming back and spamming again and again. As vm noted, we can in fact ban someone who repeatedly breaks a rule. The issue for me is all the new folks who've come along recently. We could ban every last one of them and it wouldn't stop the next one from registering.

If you do not want to do that, you could create a New User Usergroup. Members of that group would not be able to create topics until reaching a certain number of posts. This is done on RPGamer and was done on RPGFan as well. While I understand and acknowledge that this forum is an unmoderated one, I do think this would be an equitable solution. At the very least, having such a requirement would deter most spammers since they wouldn't be able to create spam topics at the outset.

It would also stop people from posting an intro thread or asking about hoisin sauce for a paper. It's an easy enough solution, but I'm uncomfortable with penalizing all newbies just because spammers are dicks. We've considered installing a hack which would disallow people with fewer than x posts from posting links, but the same problem of penalizing the innocent many because of the assholery of the guilty few arises.

Hmm... Just typing this I'm reminded of another hack we considered way back when the world was new which artificially ages a thread driving it off the front page. That might work as a spam buster. :chin:

[Seven of Nine]

[QUOTE=Seven of Nine]Corona, that's fascinating! I've never before heard of anyone being paid to spam.
I can see that if you were certain kind of person, this job would be ideal; you'd be getting paid for what you love doing already: being one of life's shit disturbers, like my pals from pointless waste, but why would anyone pay people to spam boards, especially smaller ones? What motivates them?????

I mean spam as in unsolicited advertisements, not just plain shitstirrers. The latter, in my highly limited experience, tend to be bored adolescents with a common chip on their shoulder.

Mine isn't as limited as I'd prefer and I agree with you!
I also think that some just enjoy spreading chaos, rather like teenagers who tee pee others' homes, only worse. Some hackers are definitely getting even, but I think that many of them are just like spammers who do it as their twisted idea of fun.

I doubt those people even checked with the author to see if the article had been used without permission, their version of "vigilante justice" being more entertaining.

I can't see well and so I think I messed up my post. Please allow me to clarify. I believe my friend alerted the writer of the article to our presence by asking him for permission to post his original review, since this PWOT is a board and not an informational site. Like all people love and are good at makng trouble for others, their victims are well-socialized people becuase, then their greatest weapon is to turn their victims' courtesy against them. Anyone stealing this article wasn't a member of a board likely to be an enjoyable target, but asking permission to use it is a dead giveaway, no?
For that matter, choosing Lord of the Rings boards to target is a pretty sure bet.
Of course I'm too new here to pat myself on the back[/i], but it's a backwards compliment to live, vm and all FF's members when shit disturbers choose FF to spam.

The former, people who're paid to distribute unwanted advertisements, are harder to pin down. I read an article which I'm unable to find right this moment but I found illuminating(if unhelpful in solving the problem).. they interviewed a few actual spammers(with guaranteed anonymity, of course) to find out why they do what they do.

What it comes down to is, spamming is actually not all that bad as jobs go. Pay is not staggering but way better than flipping burgers if you're good at it, startup is easy and costs are minimal, risks are low, hours are whatever the hell you want them to be, you can work from home, you can start and quit whenever you like, your creativity is constantly challenged to come up with brave new ways to penetrate spam filters...

Some students put themselves through college with it. Some parents find it extremely convenient to be able to work from home and raise their children instead of parking them at daycare all day everyday. Others make it a buffer between jobs. Some are combinations of the above -- one of the interviewees lost his source of income due to a work injury, took up spamming as a buffer and decided to become a stay-at-home dad. And of course there's probably many more reasons. You get the idea -- they're human.

I still call it greed, though. Just because it's easy and convenient doesn't make it the right thing to do.

What motivates people to pay them? That's simpler. They pay because it works. A one-in-ten-thousand response rate is acceptable when you're sending out millions of spams.

Well, that's interesting. Thank you! :)
I knew that this type is done for profit, but I knew no details of why people whould choose this "career".

I'm disabled, so I can hardly make ends meet, yet I feel no desire whatsoever to supplement my career in this particular manner. It's not as though I ordinarily occupy a lofty moral plane, but I've never in my life supported myself by knowingly hurting others and I don't intend to start now.
I'd take up panhandling first; playing on peoples' pity is only personally demeaning. Sadly, I don't have the talent or skills to busk.

[Roland98]

I don't know, but can't you close/lock threads here? Either instead of or in addition to putting "<spam>" in the thread title?
We could, but we don't really see any reason to restrict anyone who might want to take a shot at the spammer or otherwise turn a useless thread into an interesting one. Since the real problem is with the link or product mention itself (whether in the title or thread body), we feel its a reasonable compromise to just remove that and leave the thread open.

I actually would very much appreciate a "spam" or something in the title. Please remember that many of us are on crummy dial-up, and it takes forever to load a thread, only to find it advertising crap. I'd rather open a thread I know will be interesting rather than take the chance with one I know is spam, even if a discussion may be taking place after.

Edit: okay, huh, I see you have it in the one that's more obviously spam ("live camera sex show") but not in the other one. Me is confused...

[Sonnet]

I still call it greed, though. Just because it's easy and convenient doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Well, no, but it does make it entrepreneurialism in a pretty pure form. And honestly is it any more irritating than telemarketers? They make a living, we get vaguely annoyed for a minute. I understand that on a large scale the internet is FILLED with this bullshit, I know it can get out of hand and take up bandwidth, but I guess since my mother is disabled and works as a telemarketer sometimes I feel a little more sympathetic toward the actual person behind the irritation, just trying to make ends meet.

[viscousmemories]

I actually would very much appreciate a "spam" or something in the title. Please remember that many of us are on crummy dial-up, and it takes forever to load a thread, only to find it advertising crap. I'd rather open a thread I know will be interesting rather than take the chance with one I know is spam, even if a discussion may be taking place after.

Edit: okay, huh, I see you have it in the one that's more obviously spam ("live camera sex show") but not in the other one. Me is confused...
You're right, Roland. We have had so few spammers we really haven't solidified or procedures yet.

I've gone ahead and changed the titles of the recent spam threads to <spam>. :yup:

[Roland98]

You're right, Roland. We have had so few spammers we really haven't solidified or procedures yet.

I've gone ahead and changed the titles of the recent spam threads to <spam>. :yup:

Thanks muchly!

[Corona688]

I still call it greed, though. Just because it's easy and convenient doesn't make it the right thing to do.

[FONT=Georgia]Well, no, but it does make it entrepreneurialism in a pretty pure form. And honestly is it any more irritating than telemarketers? Yes, for two reasons.
You don't have to answer a telemarketer, but you get whatever spam you're sent whether you want it or not.
It costs telemarketing corporations money to make these calls and costs you nothing. Spam costs you money and costs the spammers (next to) nothing.

[viscousmemories]

[...] I guess since my mother is disabled and works as a telemarketer sometimes I feel a little more sympathetic toward the actual person behind the irritation, just trying to make ends meet.
I feel similarly, actually. I think spam, telemarketing, and other forms of invasive marketing are irritating, but I generally assume the perpetrator is just trying to make a living the best way they can within the limits of the law.

[BigBlue2]

We're a small board with few readers and even fewer posters. Our Google pagerank is negligible, so what it is about FF which makes us such a tasty morsel for spammers?
They want to draw out your fiery Italian temper. It turns them on.

[livius drusus]

More than the Live Camera Sex Show Horny Girls Who Want to Chat With You? Damn.

[Seven of Nine]

I still call it greed, though. Just because it's easy and convenient doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Well, no, but it does make it entrepreneurialism in a pretty pure form. And honestly is it any more irritating than telemarketers? They make a living, we get vaguely annoyed for a minute. I understand that on a large scale the internet is FILLED with this bullshit, I know it can get out of hand and take up bandwidth, but I guess since my mother is disabled and works as a telemarketer sometimes I feel a little more sympathetic toward the actual person behind the irritation, just trying to make ends meet.


I sometimes take telemarketers up on their offers, especially if they're willing to speak to my answering machine while I attempt to make it to the phone.
However, our Chamber of Commerce or another angency keeps us informed of the tiny proportion of phone scams, and I have yet to be flooded with phone calls from supposed Nigerians who wish me to help them defraud their lending institutions.
Your mother works for a company which offers legitimate goods or services, solicits for donations for charities, or conducts surveys, no?
IMO, telemarketing is an ethical career, one I would take up if I could. The only reason I can see to be vaguely annoyed with telemarketers is when they inadvertantly interrupt a family dinner hour. I, however, have no family dinner hour. ;)

I once role played for an entire evening with a friend who had just taken a telemarketing job and I was careful to be from different parts of the US so she could practice talking faster or slower in response to regional variations.
She could not finish the last year of her residency on schedule because she had just been subjected to two rounds of chemotherapy and during the year needed for ones system to clear itself of that crap, doctors can't be adequately drug tested: the presence of chemo drugs masks the existence of most everything else in your bloodstream.

I used to earn enough extra money to help me get through each month by selling my plasma and I sure wish I could still do that.