Educating Kiddo [Archive] - Freethought Forum

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 05:05 PM

Since my last thread was spread over 2 years and many tangents, I want to start a new thread specifically for our home preschool adventures.

Know why? Because all homeschool forums and groups kinda suck and I want to sorta blog/journal and get feedback.

Know why else? You people. We have professors and professionals and expert laypersons in all kinds of subjects here. So I will be picking your brains...I'll try to be gentle.

So, onto the show. I have started teaching Kiddo to read using word groupings for -at, -an, and -all. I ordered two reading programs that should arrive in a few days

Blumenfeld's Alpha-Phonics (http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Phonics-Beginning-Samuel-L-Blumenfeld/dp/0815969163/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260378163&sr=8-1)
and
The Reading Lesson (http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Lesson-Teach-Child-Lessons/dp/0913063029/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260378224&sr=1-1)

We have chosen Math U See (http://www.mathusee.com), but have not yet purchased it because I am trying to find a bargain. This program goes quick and goes high on eBay, so I may need to buy it new with the Christmas money from Fuck You Grandma

So there it is.

livius drusus

12-09-2009, 05:31 PM

This is so exciting. :hyper:

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 05:39 PM

LOL, is it? I did not expect that response....maybe mild interest at best.

Oh, an example of how homeschool group suckage can lead to good things. In response to stupid histrionics I researched free compilations of American historical documents and found Welcome to OurDocuments.gov (http://www.ourdocuments.gov)
I didn't know it existed and it is a cool resource. However, I would rather not have the stupid histrionics as a regular motivator.

livius drusus

12-09-2009, 05:46 PM

No way, man. It's a brain adventure!

Oh, and here's a bunch of smart comic books that you could probably start reading to him now. Larry Gonick's Cartoon Guides (http://www.amazon.com/Larry-Gonick/e/B000AQ75IY/ref=sr_tc_2_0) cover everything from world history to statistics and physics. They're funny, simply stated but not simplistic, and of course awesomely illustrated. You'll learn more from them than you probably learned in 10 high school classes.

Here (http://www.amazon.com/Asterix-Chronological-Goscinny-Uderzo-paperback/lm/RKT0SWM8R2C4O/ref=cm_lmt_srch_f_2_rsrsrs0) are all the good Asterixes in chronological order. After that, Goscinny died and Uderzo can't write for shit so they are but sad shadows of their former glory.

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 06:10 PM

LOL, is it? I did not expect that response....maybe mild interest at best.
No, dude. It's exciting as hell! :hyper:

Oh, an example of how homeschool group suckage can lead to good things. In response to stupid histrionics
I so want to know about homeschool group histrionics, but not enough to derail this thread over it.

However, I would rather not have the stupid histrionics as a regular motivator.
Welp, I'm out! :salute:

seebs

12-09-2009, 06:44 PM

"Fuck You Grandma"? Do I even want to know?

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 06:46 PM

Fuck you Grandma!: A vent - Freethought Forum (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15041&highlight=grandma)

256 colors

12-09-2009, 07:17 PM

Lady Shea, I am impressed by your homeschooling stories. My husband and I had thought about homeschooling when our kids were born, but we realized we did not possess the required skills. Sure enough, by the time they got to 4th grade, we were unable to help them with their math homework.

Now they're in 9th and 7th respectively, and I couldn't imagine myself being the one responsible for ensuring that they are getting the education they need. Bravo to you for your dedication and hard work.

Maybe you can teach me "lattice multiplication" one day...

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 07:18 PM

256 colors

12-09-2009, 07:26 PM

Or maybe someone can teach us why "lattice multiplication" is a necessary component of a complete education? I'm in computer science, and I've never heard of it.

Edit: Oh look. The first hit for "lattice multiplication" on google is a math website for kids. Cool math 4 kids .com - Lattice Multiplication (http://www.coolmath4kids.com/times-tables/times-tables-lesson-lattice-multiplication-1.html). Looks like it's just another way to multiply large numbers. Don't assume that the public school curriculum is the only correct one. That's just a way to scare yourself out of doing it yourself.
"Lattice multiplication" is some "new math" that our local public schools introduced to grades 4 and 5. I actually went in to talk to a teacher about it because I was so confused.

Perhaps I should let you know that I recently had a mental health evaluation in which I was asked to count backwards by 7, and I couldn't do it. Hilarity ensued.

If I need to multiply anything, I use a calculator. I am not qualified to teach anyone anything about math (new or old). Luckily, I knew that when the kids were babies.

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 07:38 PM

I chose Math U See based on their free demo DVD (I learned shit, myself, from the demo!). I felt if it made sense to me within a few minutes review, I could teach it. It is a complete curriculum through Pre-Calc that is divergent from the most commonly used public school curriculums.

Math U See uses manipulative blocks as a visual aid for the basics, though I can see where the lattices are another kind of graphic representation of numbers. Just different ways to show the material and hopefully hit a few more brain cells.

livius drusus

12-09-2009, 07:41 PM

That lattice multiplication is really just a pared down version of ye olde multiplication tables (http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/computer/multiplication-tables.htm). I'm still fond of a good multiplication table. It appeals to my sense of order.

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 07:48 PM

Perhaps I should let you know that I recently had a mental health evaluation in which I was asked to count backwards by 7, and I couldn't do it.

Count backwards by 7s? I couldn't do that either. I can't imagine why anyone would be expected to be able to do that as it certainly never comes up in life. What's that got to do with mental health?

Now some people just have certain things in their head, that they can do without effort...one of Kiddo's friends, also 3, can say the Alphabet backwards. She just did it one day. I can't do that very easily either, but that doesn't mean I can't teach my kid to read.

livius drusus

12-09-2009, 07:53 PM

The Lone Ranger

12-09-2009, 08:01 PM

I second the Larry Gonick recommendation. His books are really entertaining and easy to understand, but surprisingly accurate and comprehensive. Heck, I've used illustrations from them to help explain concepts like probability and genetics to college-level students.

For American History, I strongly recommend James W. Loewen's Lies My Teacher Told Me (http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-Told-Everything/dp/0743296281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260388748&sr=8-1) and Lies Across America: What American Historic Sites Get Wrong (http://www.amazon.com/Lies-Across-America-American-Historic/dp/B001O9CCZC/ref=pd_sim_b_2). His basic argument is that standard history texts (and historical markers) get a lot wrong and leave out a lot of important information. I'm sure there are more historically-informed people than me, who can give even better recommendations.

Cheers,

Michael

Ari

12-09-2009, 08:02 PM

Count backwards by 7s?
Minus 10 Plus 3. So 100 minus 10 is 90 plus 3 is 93. 93 minus 10 is 83 plus 3 is 86..... or did that just make it more complicated?

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 08:03 PM

Oh and FYI...currently this is just home preschool. He can't attend public school until 2011 even if we choose to put him in Kindergarten, and compulsory age is 7 (2013) if we decide to skip it.

I have him for another year and a half minimum, so we can certainly re-evaluate anytime. I am pretty sure we will just continue with home education, but this is life and shit happens, so nothing in stone.

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 08:06 PM

ceptimus

12-09-2009, 08:06 PM

You could just go 100, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 0 and tell them you're working in base 7.

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 08:10 PM

Perhaps I should let you know that I recently had a mental health evaluation in which I was asked to count backwards by 7, and I couldn't do it. Hilarity ensued.
At first I misunderstood that as "count backwards from 7" and I was like damn, that's pretty sad. :lol:

Count backwards by 7s? I couldn't do that either. I can't imagine why anyone would be expected to be able to do that as it certainly never comes up in life. What's that got to do with mental health?
I saw it on the teevee one time where they had the patient's brain hooked up to a monitor, and they had to count backwards by 7s to see what the brain looked when the person was thinking or concentrating very hard.

A good friend of mine can recite all the states in alphabetical order. I can barely scrape together 10 of them in random order. On the other hand, she couldn't understand Emily Dickinson to save her life. We spent hours getting her through her English exam.
:aww: You've never called me a "good friend" before. Srsly I can say all the states really fast, and I could care less about understanding Emily Dickinson.

People are weird.
No u.

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 08:11 PM

You could just go 100, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 0 and tell them you're working in base 7.

Everybody counts in base 10.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10 ... what's a 7?

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 08:11 PM

Ari

12-09-2009, 08:23 PM

Not at all, these are the kinds of tricks I personally need
I find similar tricks like that really useful, my brain works better by breaking things down into easy to do chunks. While I doubt I could quickly count backwards by 7s I can quickly subtract 10 and add 3. Same goes for multiplication. 15 X 63 becomes 10 x 63 = 630. 10 x 630/2 = 315. 630 + 315 =945 While long and drawn out I can do all of it in my head in a split second, while I would struggle with 15 x 63.

This is entertaining, especially the last bit where he talks out his thought process and certain numbers become words.
Mathemagic on TED (http://www.ted.com/talks/arthur_benjamin_does_mathemagic.html)

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 08:25 PM

Count backwards by 7s?
Minus 10 Plus 3. So 100 minus 10 is 90 plus 3 is 93. 93 minus 10 is 83 plus 3 is 86..... or did that just make it more complicated?

Not at all, these are the kinds of tricks I personally need, but wasn't taught, and don't come to me naturally for whatever reason. Hubby has this whole spatial thinking thing going on that seems like magic to me.

Everybody does and thinks math totally differently. I have a hard time adding up more than two or three numbers in my head, because I'm not good at keeping track of things in my head (like I can't memorize a shopping list or a handful of objects on a table). So when we add up our yahtzee scores, I always group them by 100s. If I see an 80 and a 20, that's one. A 60 and a 40, that's 2, etc. However the person I play with just adds them up down the line, he's all 80, 140, 160, 200 ... and I'm like how the hell do you do that so fast?

I suuuucked at memorizing the times tables (and I still don't know them all, especially the sevens, but even the sixes and eights, and I do nines on my fingers*). I struggled in third grade over it. I actually sucked at third grade math, and still do. And yet I rock at algebra and calculus.

My mom used to multiply weird when I was a kid, and it didn't make sense to me at the time, but now for no reason it's the way I do it. Like if I want to multiply 36 times 5, I do 30 times 5 plus 6 times 5. Which now I'm like "duh that's just regular multiplication" but at the time I thought it was weird that she went front to back, and even this day I know most people don't do it that way.

I don't really have a point. My point is, everyone maths differently. The only thing that matters is that you learn how to do it. Or in mine and ELGSs cases, that you don't, and you just learn to check your work with a calculator.

*YouTube- Magic of 9

livius drusus

12-09-2009, 08:28 PM

Not at all, these are the kinds of tricks I personally need
I find similar tricks that that really useful, my brain works better by breaking things down into easy to do chunks. While I doubt I could quickly count backwards by 7s I can quickly subtract 10 and add 3. Same goes for multiplication. 15 X 63 becomes 10 x 63 = 630. 10 x 630/2 = 315 630 + 315 =945 While long and drawn out I can do all of it in my head in a split second, while I would struggle with 15 x 63.
I do that too! It's how I calculate tips, in fact.

livius drusus

12-09-2009, 08:31 PM

256 colors

12-09-2009, 08:33 PM

I do that too! It's how I calculate tips, in fact.

I use the "Ez Tip Calculator" in my cell phone. :shy2:

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 08:35 PM

A good friend of mine can recite all the states in alphabetical order. I can barely scrape together 10 of them in random order. On the other hand, she couldn't understand Emily Dickinson to save her life. We spent hours getting her through her English exam.
:aww: You've never called me a "good friend" before. Srsly I can say all the states really fast, and I could care less about understanding Emily Dickinson.
Did you learn them in a song too? That's how "my good friend" does it. She just sings the song at the speed of light. (She didn't care about ED either, but her English prof did.)
Yes I did. The Fifty Nifty United States. It was from a musical play that we did. I bet she did the same play. I can still sing the song, but I don't sing it when I say them fast. The shitty part is I have to start at the beginning. So when Alex Trebek is all "This state, beginning with the letter M ..." I'm all "alabamaalaskaarizonaark..." and then the nerd on TV buzzes in before I get it.

YouTube- Fifty Nifty United States

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 08:39 PM

Tips? Mostly I just double the first number(s), and round up if necessary.

So an 80-84 bill gets a 16.00 tip, I add 1.00 for 85-89
100-109 gets a 20.00 tip, 110-119 gets 22.00 etc.

I sing the Preamble song from Schoolhouse Rocks in my head if I need to recite the Preamble for some reason.

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 08:40 PM

Tips? Mostly I just double the first number(s), and round up if necessary.

So an 80-84 bill gets a 16.00 tip, I add 1.00 for 85-89
100-109 gets a 20.00 tip, 110-119 gets 22.00 etc.

:yeahthat:

BDS

12-09-2009, 08:47 PM

I do that too! It's how I calculate tips, in fact.

At restaurants or the Race Track?

By the way, if I were kiddo, I'd say, "Mom, I don't WANT to be educated! I love you, and I know you like the idea, since you're always posting about it, but can I put the whole thing off for a couple of years, and just play? If you try to make me learn Attic Greek, I'm signing up for Public Kindergarten."

I'll admit that I'm projecting, and kiddo might think quite differently.

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 09:00 PM

He gets tons of playtime, I am not going to teach him 8 languages and advanced math like they did in the 80's...I am more formerly teaching him just some basics. No more than 30 minutes a day for the time being in the structured stuff.

Everything else, well, he is learning all the time. One can learn through play and life activities. But most normally can't learn to read without some kind of instruction.

ETA: Also, we play hard. This year alone he has been camping, hiking, boating, jet skiing, and visited Disneyworld, an alligator farm, the zoo, a fish hatchery, and three caves. He watched sea turtles hatch. He has a 23 ft long double decker pirate ship in the back yard and a room full of toys and games and costumes. We are going to the Smoky Mtns for his birthday in less than a month. He's getting a Wii for Christmas. Yeah, maybe I post about this a lot, but that's because I want the feedback and because it's something I feel is important, not because it's ALL I do with my kid.

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 09:06 PM

By the way, if I were kiddo, I'd say, "Mom, I don't WANT to be educated! I love you, and I know you like the idea, since you're always posting about it, but can I put the whole thing off for a couple of years, and just play? If you try to make me learn Attic Greek, I'm signing up for Public Kindergarten."

What is he going to be, 3 next month? Like you point out in this post (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=782600#post782600) he wouldn't be in school yet at this point anyway. A lot of parents choose to teach their kids reading and math before kindergarten starts. He's not even too young for piano at 3. :mischief:

Srsly, how goes drums?

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 09:06 PM

He'll be 4 next month. We have never had him in daycare or preschool, so I am choosing to do that at home. Most kids, I think, attend preschool before going to kindergarten.

Drums: He seems to have good rhythm naturally and plays with his Dad a lot. He likes to dance and sing too...much music love in this one.

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 09:10 PM

FOUR?! Damn, where does the time go?

Do you notice that the more expensive the pre-school is, the more similar it is to learning at home? The cheaper day cares seem just like glorified babysitters, where the expensive schools boast about their tiny teacher-to-student ratio, and how they start them early on reading, math, languages, music. Wow, it's almost like he gets as good or better at home. And for cheaper.

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 09:11 PM

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 09:12 PM

OMG Preschool is like 400/mo...even the shitty ones

LadyShea

12-09-2009, 09:27 PM

I think I'm too gushy and cheerleadery in this thread. I just wish I could do it. It seems so fun. How do I get on board without having my own kid? Maybe I should have been a teacher.

Maybe I should find a homeschool family that needs an algebra tutor. :chin:

You could offer to run a co-op "class" for local homeschool groups. You could write unit studies (and even sell them). You could volunteer at a daycare or group home or as a mentor for foster kids or something.

You could keep cheering me on, as this is scary, and naysayers abound, and you know how I get insecure when it's about my kid. You could help with my research and plans and stuff too. I am just trying shit and he's mastering it too quick.

erimir

12-09-2009, 09:42 PM

YouTube- Fifty Nifty United States (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_HeLofy7IE)I like the way Yakko sings the nations of the world better than the way they sing the 50 states in that song.

There's no rhyme or anything, it's just saying them alphabetically to a song.

Yakko does it with style. Although a couple of his facts are now outdated... He also includes a few non-nations to make the rhyme scheme work. And some alternate names (he uses Kampuchea for Cambodia, for example).

YouTube- Animaniacs - Nations Of The World

Ensign Steve

12-09-2009, 09:43 PM

Wakko's state capitals song is how I know the capital of Connecticut, but that's the only one, because I only remember the one line.

Hartford's in Connecticut, so pretty in the Fall...
:wakko:

lisarea

12-09-2009, 11:42 PM

The Little Muffin used to tutor kids in math, and one day, on the way home from school, he told me he'd figured out that, instead of trying to explain something to someone the same way over and over, you should stop and go back to the beginning and think about the problems in different ways until you found a way that made sense to them. Which is apparently something they weren't doing in his school.

Anyway, he was right. All too often, schools focus on one linear learning pattern, and just go through it step by step, which can lead not only to failure, but to seriously rigid thinking patterns even in the kids who do well. You get kids who have memorized different math formulas, but don't really understand how they work; or kids who can figure out the problems, but haven't been taught any shortcuts or formulas that could make them more efficient at solving problems. Similarly, I would think it might help with understanding to mix up different learning styles, too, even with kids who are strongly inclined to one style.

And just generally, I like the idea of being able to think about things in a lot of different ways. I know whenever I've had some really sticky problem at work or something, I get the best results when I stop and slap some whole new ontology around it, and just keep doing that and refining it until I figure out something that works.

Ensign Steve

12-10-2009, 02:28 AM

And just generally, I like the idea of being able to think about things in a lot of different ways. I know whenever I've had some really sticky problem at work or something, I get the best results when I stop and slap some whole new ontology around it, and just keep doing that and refining it until I figure out something that works.

I had a friend at my old job who I would turn to whenever I was stuck on a programming issue. I'd explain it to her and then tell her what I'd tried, and then babble for a little bit, and then come up with a solution. She goes, "I don't know why you need me here for this." Seriously, I tried to do it with a blank wall and it just doesn't work the same way.

Qingdai

12-10-2009, 04:49 AM

"Europe and a People without History" is a good history book.

Pre-school here is anywhere from $2,000 a month to $275 a month. We're taking out kid out of private preschool because we can't afford it anymore after this round of house repairs.

Shake

12-10-2009, 04:55 AM

I do that too! It's how I calculate tips, in fact.

I use the "Ez Tip Calculator" in my cell phone. :shy2:

I can figure out the tip quicker than I can even get to that function on my phone. 'Round these parts (yours too, I'd suppose), you could just double the sales tax to get a good, quick estimate.

Anyway, getting to 15% is pretty easy. You find 10% just by moving the decimal one place, then just add half that again. Bingo, 15%. Though, Mrs Shake typically leaves more like 20% for even decent service. It's rare that we'd leave a mere 15%.

For most practical matters, I've found that being able to get a decent estimate quickly, serves you very well. You can then work out the exact figures if necessary. I can't stand people who stop to figure out to the penny what their tip/share of the bill they should contribute.

LadyShea

12-10-2009, 05:09 AM

256 colors

12-10-2009, 12:01 PM

I don't want to detract from LadyShea's homeschool thread, but I gotta reply top Shake's comment. I usually tip in increments of $5 after checking to see what the "regular" 20% tip would be. I round my bill up before calculating the 20%, then round the result up to the next closest $5. We've had breakfast at a local diner that came out to $12 for the two of us and we've left a $5 tip minimum. I can't stand people who count it out to the penny, or leave change.

LadyShea

12-10-2009, 04:02 PM

:wtfsign: $5.00 is over 40%! On $12.00 I would leave $2.00 for adequate service and $3.00 for very good service.

Ensign Steve

12-10-2009, 04:05 PM

:wtfsign: $5.00 is over 40%!

What's wrong with that? On a tiny bill you can leave a 50% or more tip and it only makes a few bucks difference. bey tips 100% on his $10 haircut, because he feels like it's worth $20. :shrug:

I read in US Weekly how much celebrities tip. Drew Barrymore always tips 100% on her bar bill. (I bet that bill's not tiny, though. :giggles:)

256 colors

12-10-2009, 04:06 PM

:wtfsign: $5.00 is over 40%! On $12.00 I would leave $2.00 for adequate service and $3.00 for very good service.

Yeah, but I feel that the waitress worked just as hard to bring me my inexpensive breakfast as she would have to bring me my more costly lunch or dinner, and deserves at least $5 tip for serving me. Also, I have to go back to those diners and eat there again! I want to be remembered as "that lady who always leaves $5 for the breakfast bill" and not "that cheapskate who only left me $2 even though I refilled her coffee 3 times."

I don't tip that much in bars; only $1 per drink until I start running out of money.

Qingdai

12-10-2009, 04:07 PM

Pre-school here is anywhere from $2,000 a month to $275 a month. We're taking out kid out of private preschool because we can't afford it anymore after this round of house repairs.

What are you going to do instead?

Public preschool, it's only two hours a day. I figure it's a good way to check out the local public school before it's an all day event.
If we don't like it there are several choices of charter schools that we can apply to, a creative science school, Waldorf, Montessori and Reggio Emilia types schools available in our district.

LadyShea

12-10-2009, 04:11 PM

It's nice to have that alternative. I wanted to try our public schools Pre-K (to see if Kiddo was a good fit for PS), but is limited to 15 per school, and those who are at risk or below average or whatever they label it. They have to take a test and the bottom 15 get the slots. It's this state's version of Head Start I guess

Qingdai

12-10-2009, 04:15 PM

That does sound like head start, 15 preschoolers is a large class depending on the number of teachers, which should be at least two teachers for a class that large.

The schedule is terrible for us, but it's school, not daycare.

My students who have sent their child to Head Start were quite impressed with it here.

LadyShea

12-10-2009, 04:24 PM

Our Pre-K is a full school day, they do everything of the K-12 except ride the bus. Also, only a few schools have it, not all of them in the district. I think it was meant to be fully implemented state wide after going through tests schools, then they ran out of money.

Story of Alabama, no money

Qingdai

12-10-2009, 04:29 PM

Yeah, it's all over. We were supposed to have full day preschool and it got cut to about 2 hours a day. No money.
I think you'd like the Reggio type of preschool teaching. It seems like it would be a good fit with your parenting style, and I do mean as homeschooling, not finding one in your neck of the woods.

LadyShea

12-10-2009, 06:41 PM

I decided to use magnetic letters on a board last night instead of my construction paper cutouts. After a few minutes Kiddo was changing the subject and just being silly and saying he couldn't do it or whatever, so I walked away to do something else. Then he was all "But I want to do words!" so, from across the room, I said "Okay, spell mat...do it fast before I get there to check"...and he did. He did like 5 words that way, as long as I was not standing right there. Distance learning I guess.

LadyShea

12-11-2009, 07:35 PM

ELGS, it sounds like your kid's school might be using the Everyday Math (or similar) curriculum...you are far from the only person (students and parents) that doesn't get it

Math wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_wars)
Everyday Mathematics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everyday_Math)
Everyday Math (http://www.rationalamerican.com/rp.org/archives/everydaymath.html)
Reviews of UCSMP Everyday Mathematics (Chicago Math) (http://www.nychold.com/em.html)

So Jim might have seemed the veritable symbol for the new math curriculum installed over the last seven years in this ambitious, educated suburb of Rochester. Since seventh grade, he had been taking the "constructivist" or "inquiry" program, so named because it emphasizes pupils' constructing their own knowledge through a process of reasoning.

Jim, however, placed the credit elsewhere. His parents, an engineer and an educator, covertly tutored him in traditional math. Several teachers, in the privacy of their own classrooms, contravened the official curriculum to teach the problem-solving formulas that constructivist math denigrates as mindless memorization. source (http://www.kimberlyswygert.com/archives/003285.html)

Basically there are many curriculum to choose from, and one of the benefits I see in homeschooling is being able to choose the best one for us, both for my kid and for me as a teacher AND as a parent.

256 colors

12-11-2009, 10:15 PM

ELGS, it sounds like your kid's school might be using the Everyday Math (or similar) curriculum...you are far from the only person (students and parents) that doesn't get it

When our daughter was in 5th grade (2 years ago), I went to a parent-teacher conference and asked about this "new math" that was so foreign to us. The teacher, who had also taught my husband when he was in grade school, complained that it was part of the government's "No Child Left Behind" program. She didn't like it either but it was what our School Board had chosen for the grade school.

lisarea

12-11-2009, 10:58 PM

The term New Math (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math) is usually used to refer to a curriculum that was popular in the 60s, which was pretty significantly different from what they're doing now. (I just splain this because I was confused at first.)

As I understand it, though, the new "new math" is just an approach that emphasizes figuring problems out on your own, rather than memorizing pre-existing formulas. When I was in school, they took the opposite approach. Both my little brother and I were accused of cheating by the same teacher in the same 'advanced' math class for 1) solving problems using methods other than the specific formulas the teacher had memorized, and 2) failing to meticulously write out simple little arithmetic problems that we'd done in our heads.

So that, in a nutshell, is the old math. It's the kind of math where your algebra teacher thinks that formulas are like some kind of magical incantations you have to memorize, and is incapable of seeing the underlying logic.

It seems as though the criticisms of these techniques mostly center around them being taught exclusively, and the kids never really getting the benefit of learning more efficient ways to do things.

maddog

12-12-2009, 01:00 AM

cue Tom Lehrer:

:singing: New math! :music: New -hew -hew math

:notes: It won't do you a bit of good to re- view math!

It's so simple, :note2: so very simple, :music:

That only a child :swings: can do it! :pianist:

/Tom Lehrer

I got "New Math" in school, but I couldn't tell the difference between "New Math" and "Old Math." The arithmetic was the same no matter what. :whoosh: :confused:

#2317

Nullifidian

12-12-2009, 03:57 AM

Yakko does it with style. Although a couple of his facts are now outdated... He also includes a few non-nations to make the rhyme scheme work. And some alternate names (he uses Kampuchea for Cambodia, for example).

No kidding about the outdated material. Yakko sings that Germany is now one piece, but refers to "both Yemens" (the Yemen Arab Republic and the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen). The first treaty agreeing on a monetary, economic, and social union of West and East Germany was signed on May 18, 1990. On May 22, 1990, Yemen was reunified, thus there was only a four day window when both these things could be true.

And Animaniacs premiered in 1993, well after the information in this song was already out of date.

But I love the fact that it refers to Palestine as a state. I bet some people threw a shit fit when they saw that. :muahaha:

LadyShea

12-14-2009, 03:57 PM

Obviously NCLB did not mandate certain curriculum, but many schools scrambled to improve their scores and kinda bought into whatever was offering fast and dramatic results. Curriculum is big business...look at the history curriculum fight in Texas (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/21/texas-history-gingrich/).

Take a look at the "Math Wars" link in my previous post for the current set of issues. This seems to be a common argument against reform: Constructivist methods which are unfamiliar to many adults, and books which lack explanations of methods or solved examples make it difficult to help with homework. Compared to worksheets which can be completed in minutes, constructivist activities can be more time consuming.

LadyShea

12-16-2009, 06:19 PM

Um, so yeah, I sorta convinced my brother to consider pulling niece from public school. Because of his job, and being a single dad, he hadn't really looked at any alternatives....but when I opened my big mouth about some of the stuff I have researched he was all "You could help me"

WTF have I done? It may come down to me trying to formulate a plan for a 12yo.

Ensign Steve

12-16-2009, 06:20 PM

:lol: OMG that sucks. It's cool at the same time, but damn.

livius drusus

12-16-2009, 06:30 PM

Sweet! Now you can experiment on someone else's kid before you guinea pig yours.

Ensign Steve

12-16-2009, 06:31 PM

I hadn't thought of it that way! :plotting:

LadyShea

12-16-2009, 06:36 PM

She would need some srs de-schooling. One of the things that put him overboard was how loud the Cop In Her Head (in the form of "teacher") is.

He asked her about her thoughts, feelings, and/or opinions on a few topics (like "what do you like about school") and she got this deer in the headlights look. Basically, she knows what teachers want to hear and see, and does that. Doing that gets her labeled as gifted and a good student. She had no idea what her dad wanted to hear, so didn't know how to answer.

My rebel bro was ashamed that he hadn't seen that in her.

Qingdai

12-16-2009, 09:40 PM

At 12 years old, it might be part of a phase. Kids that age tend to be awfully conformist.

The petty :bullshit: is how you learn to rebel.

LadyShea

12-16-2009, 09:44 PM

Part of it is the age, yes, but not all of it. Also, that age sucks so hard at school. I would choose death over repeating middle school...srsly

lisarea

12-16-2009, 09:55 PM

I wish I could repeat middle school, because I can mostly beat middle schoolers up now.

Ensign Steve

12-16-2009, 09:57 PM

I played viola in chamber orchestra in middle school, but not in high school because we didn't have one. I'd go back just for that.

256 colors

12-16-2009, 10:03 PM

My daughter is 12, it would destroy her if we pulled her out of school. Then again, my kids love school. I am guessing that your niece is unhappy with her situation, that's a shame. I hope you are able to help her.

LadyShea

12-16-2009, 10:13 PM

She loves school (though was unable to articulate exactly why). She was upset that we even talked about pulling her.

256 colors

12-16-2009, 10:32 PM

She loves school (though was unable to articulate exactly why). She was upset that we even talked about pulling her.

That's where many of her friends are, presumably. My daughter is very active in her school, with basketball, choir, and art club. My son is at a tech school, majoring in culinary arts while taking college prep classes. He didn't make the basketball team this year (the first year he tried out) but his school has a swimming pool, and he loved swimming "instead of" gym.

A few years ago, we considered moving out of NJ to save money but our kids got upset just thinking that they would lose their school friends. We promised them we would not leave town until after the younger one graduates high school. They're very happy where they are.

Your mileage may vary... I don't know your niece, but I know a lot of 12-year-old girls and I would not dream of taking them away from their school unless they wanted to leave. I thought she was having a problem, and that was why you wanted your brother to pull her out.

LadyShea

12-16-2009, 10:44 PM

256 colors

12-16-2009, 10:58 PM

Yeah, I didn't go into detail or give any real context, sorry about that. She has a lot of problems, from my perspective (people pleasing, conformist, not a critical thinker, no initiative, no outside interests), some of them caused by her parents divorce and her mom subsequently leaving the state with no notice.

In short, I think she is at risk for victimization and/or poor decisions and/or negative socialization based on lack of independence and confidence.

I don't mean to intrude, and of course I don't know all the details, but after everything else she has lost, she may view being removed from her school as having the rug pulled out from under her, and may develop resentment toward you and her father for taking her away from a place where she seems to be doing well (she's placed in the Gifted class, that's certainly something to applaud).

I can imagine there are plenty of kids who are being bullied or who face other situations that would make them want to leave school, but if your niece is not actually suffering abuse at the hands of her teachers or classmates, taking her away from her cherished environment may do her more harm than good.

Just because she attends public school does not mean that you can't teach her critical thinking skills, self-esteem, and other positive behavioral and mental attitudes. School is not a substitute for parenting, of course. If she's having psychological problems, maybe she needs counseling. But taking her out of school against her wishes may not produce the effects you hope to achieve.

wildernesse

12-17-2009, 12:51 AM

OT/

I was whining to my mom about trying to figure out a different kind of case (fast). I asked for some general direction and was promptly told the wrong standard to use. So then after I figured out that it was wrong, I realized it was just easier to learn it all on my own. She said, "haha, remember when you used to ask to be homeschooled because you liked to learn on your own." !!

LadyShea

12-17-2009, 02:39 PM

No worries ELGS, her dad would never do something so drastic without lots of discussion and input, it was the first time anything like that was mentioned it's not like it's imminent.

256 colors

12-17-2009, 02:47 PM

No worries ELGS, her dad would never do something so drastic without lots of discussion and input, it was the first time anything like that was mentioned it's not like it's imminent.

That's cool, thanks for saying so. I'm really glad that your niece isn't having any major problems in her school! :)

LadyShea

12-17-2009, 04:34 PM

Well no, but if you read my previous thread on the subject, you will see that I personally find public education largely problematic in general. That's why I am wanting to homeschool.

Anyway, back on topic. Trientalis, the sweetheart, sent me some books she is no longer needing. A 3 (very large) book series of science, art, and literature activities for preschoolers, a book on using Montessori at home, and a book on development with a huge list of resources. I am going to incorporate many of the ideas in our "curriculum".

Also, I got the first of the two phonics books I ordered. It's very hardcore, so I will introduce that in tiny chunks.

Corona688

12-17-2009, 06:49 PM

I wish I could repeat middle school, because I can mostly beat middle schoolers up now. I'm halfway to volunteering to rebuild the quote system here. I have no idea where to start but damn, someone has to.

LadyShea

01-25-2010, 10:43 PM

We have been doing some kind of reading lesson for at least a few minutes every day, and Kiddo is doing very well. We are doing The Reading Lesson, then reinforcing those lessons at starfall.com, and via his regular books, and "spelling" words using letter cutouts, etc.

He can accurately decode pretty much any 3 letter word with short a and short e, though he still sometimes sounds out known words (and at other times just says them)...which is fine for his age.

Qingdai

01-26-2010, 12:31 AM

I noticed in starfall, they just memorize short words like "and" and "the."

My son has been playing with that and it's got him starting to sound out words.
He's having trouble with his fine motor skills though, he's discouraged from writing and drawing, somehow.

LadyShea

01-26-2010, 06:12 AM

Although I don't care for whole language, it's starting to make sense to me to treat certain words- like the, she, he, are, and of- as sight words.

Kiddo also doesn't write or draw or color, much, and is behind in that area on those checklists. I was really concerned at first, but I realized he uses utensils well, an he builds pretty intricate things with blocks and Tinkertoys and such, and he can use scissors. I even sort of tested him by having him sort dried beans and do some simple lacing (seems fine with those too)

I decided he just doesn't like sitting at a table drawing or whatever. Now that we have an easel, he is showing more interest in drawing shapes and even trying letters on it. He likes the large scale and standing up, it seems, and just recently he actually colored the page at a restaurant.

I set up some literature based lapbook units this week, and included cutting, gluing, and beadwork with them. I guess I'll just keep giving him opportunities for fine motor skill development and see what happens.

Does your son do okay with other types of motor skills activities?

Qingdai

01-26-2010, 06:22 AM

He likes to build things with blocks and glue things.
The writing and drawing, or painting part doesn't interest him. So it's hard to tell if it's because he's bored of it or frustrated because he can't do it easily. We have an easel he used to use, but he hasn't been interested in that either.
I bet he'd like knots though. The boy is (scary for me) always tying things up.

He also has some gross motor development issues. They test by throwing a ball, skipping and hopping on one foot. None of which we really do at home (don't throw that!) I've tried to get him to jump rope. I'm thinking of some kid's gymnastics class or trampoline class at the local parks & recreation center. Maybe get him interested.
Right now we are doing swimming classes and I don't want to over-tax him (or me).

LadyShea

01-26-2010, 06:37 AM

Knots sound like a cool idea! Hubby found this page when he was making a climbing net Animated Knots by Grog (http://www.animatedknots.com/)

I don't know what's available near you, but they do one one foot hopping and such in my son's TaeKwonDo class.

How does he like swimming? I want to put my son in swimming, but we don't have time or money to do both, and I don't want to pull him from TKD

Qingdai

01-26-2010, 06:42 AM

He loves swimming. He and his dad also once a week for informal stuff. So one half hour of lessons a week and an hour or so of goofing off in the water. It's better if they do swimming at least twice a week.

I'm thinking of alternating lessons in different things over the next year.
Although this summer he has no preschool so I might do two lesson things with him.

"The Dangerous Book for Boys" has a knot tying section, plus grandpa is a daft hand with the knots. His sister was filming him making knots.
I'll check out the animated site later.

Clutch Munny

01-26-2010, 02:29 PM

Thought this might be relevant to the thread:

Girls may learn math anxiety from female teachers (http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/01/26/tech-math-female-teachers.html)

If true, it's a good reminder for home-schooling moms to project confidence about arithmetic. (I wish they would call it arithmetic instead of math in the story, to make clear the absolutely basic levels that they're talking about. There's no excuse in terms of the difficulty of the concepts or operations for any elementary teacher not to own, and be seen to own, basic arithmetic.)

LadyShea

01-26-2010, 03:05 PM

Thanks Clutch. Actually, I am excited about math, mostly because the program I have chosen looks like it will teach me something as well, but I will be cognizant of my own anxiety.

One for Sorrow

03-09-2010, 01:48 PM

For LS, because I loved Pioneer Woman's humorous and positive affirmation of homeschooling:

The Pioneer Woman--Why I Homeschool and What My Approach Is (http://thepioneerwoman.com/homeschooling/2010/03/why-i-homeschool-and-what-my-approach-is/)

LadyShea

03-09-2010, 05:55 PM

Thanks Jess, love her humor and good nature

LadyShea

03-11-2010, 06:19 PM

So, reading and math are moving right along and I am considering formalizing science a bit, especially with Spring and Summer coming up and we will be outside and camping and such...this looks really, really good

Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding: A Science Curriculum for K-2 (http://bringinguplearners.com/2008/02/04/the-best-of-both-worlds-a-review-of-the-new-living-science-curriculum-building-foundations-of-scientific-understanding/)

Qingdai

03-12-2010, 03:59 AM

This program was recommended to me by my kid's new developmental delay therapists.
The Print Tool | Handwriting Without Tears (http://shopping.hwtears.com/category/theprinttool)

Oh look if you go to the educators' section you can down load samples
:caught:

LadyShea

03-12-2010, 05:36 AM

Qingdai

03-13-2010, 05:06 AM

I guess I'll have to order it, the local home school and teacher supply store (The Learning Palace) doesn't carry it.

The evaluators also gave me a huge packet of ways to encourage fine motor and writing skills with kids.
They also told me to just copy the booklets so we can practice a lot. Schools have to pay for each workbook it seems.

LadyShea

03-13-2010, 05:28 AM

Check Amazon, ebay as well as Home School Curriculum and Supplemental Material at Discounted Prices - Homeschool Buyers Co-op (http://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/). HWT is a popular it seems, so if you don't make any marks in the books (copy them off) you maybe can turn around and sell it.

LadyShea

04-01-2010, 08:40 PM

Hey Qing did you get the HWT? Hows it going?

So I am working on my official Kindergarten curriculum, and feel I must be missing something

I have math, reading/writing, science, and history covered. That seems too simple, therefore I probably skipped something enormous

Ensign Steve

04-01-2010, 08:43 PM

I think when I was that age, history was "social studies" and included civics and current events, etc.

How about music or foreign language? I know he's been helping dad play drums and counting in Spanish since he was like a zygote, but is that kind of stuff staying on more of an unofficial curriculum?

Edit: Oh, yeah, PE/karate probably falls in that second category as well.

LadyShea

04-01-2010, 08:49 PM

Yeah I am keeping that kinda stuff, as well as art, more informal. This is just for actual "lessons" I guess...some of which will be p. informal anyway

I want to do history kinda chronologically (time line livius!), rather than jump all over time and space as long as it is about white people like how I learned. That allows for a lot of crossover between science and social studies as well.

Ensign Steve

04-01-2010, 08:50 PM

Oh, yeah, I forgot about art. :dopey:

Interesting approach to history. I never thought about the crossover with science, except for maybe that one time I looked at this evolution timeline in biology class. I look forward to hearing more about it.

LadyShea

04-01-2010, 08:56 PM

Well before human history you have the Earth's history with non-human lifeforms to learn about, so there's that automatic crossover. Then, much of human history was affected by science, including religion (trying to answer why) .

I will be doing a "spine" method, where you take a period off the timeline and bring in various materials to flesh it out whether primary sources, documentaries, historical fiction, mythology etc

Angakuk

04-03-2010, 04:53 AM

You left out nap time (my best subject) and show & tell. Also, building things with wood blocks and then knocking them down.

Qingdai

04-03-2010, 05:03 AM

Fine and gross motor skills, which is the crafts, scissor skills, drawing, painting, as well as gross motor, co-operative play (taking turns, playing games with rules) seem to fill much of my child's day.

Rhyming, singing/music are also good for learning reading skills.
Which you may have already integrated these into the "reading and writing" portion of his day.

LadyShea

04-03-2010, 05:54 AM

You left out nap time (my best subject) and show & tell. Also, building things with wood blocks and then knocking them down.

He stopped napping by the time he was 2, unfortunately.

Structured "school" type stuff and scheduled activities (TaeKwonDo and for the next month swimming lessons twice a week) encompass 2 hours a day total. Adding a book or whatever about history and/or science might add another 1/2 hour. Thats way less than he would have at either pre-school or Kindergarten.

The rest of the day is playing and/or doing various activities with his caretakers (grandparents and honorary grandparents) which include gardening, baking, being read to by his 94 year old great grandma :) singing, dancing, story time at the library, trips to Bass Pro Shop which I don't get but he loves, etc.

.

Qingdai

04-03-2010, 06:48 AM

Yeah, mine didn't nap very long either. A lot of preschools have naps because they are tired, tired kids from the activity.
At this age, keeping them active is most important. It seems they are little learning vacuums and our job is to give them all that good dirt to suck up.

Ensign Steve

04-04-2010, 11:55 AM

trips to Bass Pro Shop which I don't get but he loves, etc.

Don't they have all kinds of cool kids stuff? I know about the Christmas stuff, but do they have something year-round? Cuz that would explain the appeal.

LadyShea

04-06-2010, 03:40 PM

Even the Christmas village wasn't all that cool, to me. He likes looking at the tents and taxidermy animals and stuff I guess. He does that with Granny and Buddy.

Hey Qing, I spent last night coming up with my sight word list. I went through some of the known ones, like Dolch, and took out the decodables -because it's silly to teach decodable words as sight words to me. Let me know if you want my list.

Qingdai

04-09-2010, 07:06 PM

I would like your list. I may be doing some "homeschooling" during summer time.

LadyShea

04-12-2010, 06:12 PM

Woohoo for dumpster diving in laws! My father and brother in law went to an auction this weekend, and bought a bunch of "surprise" boxes for $5.00 each. In one was 6 British books called Horrible Histories (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Horrible+Histories&x=5&y=22), which are wacky, wonderful, and gross historical facts, mixed with cartoons and such. So fun!

Also, they got a Meade Polaris telescope there!

One for Sorrow

04-12-2010, 08:04 PM

Those books look like they'd be very interesting for a kid. What a lucky find!

Ensign Steve

04-14-2010, 02:33 PM

Moar geek parenting...

Pandemonium!: Six Months Of Solar Paths Recorded On A Single Piece Of Film - Geekologie (http://www.geekologie.com/2010/04/pandemonium_six_months_of_sola.php)

Edit: Okay, when I read it yesterday, I thought it said it was a project he did with his kid, but now I can't see where it says that so maybe I made that part up. It's still cool, though.

wildernesse

04-15-2010, 06:52 PM

Pinhole cameras are fabulous. We did that in art class in middle school and learned how to develop our film, too. That was one of my favorite art projects.

LadyShea

04-15-2010, 08:28 PM

This conversation happened when hubby went to pick up kiddo from my MIL the other day

MIL at the door before saying hello: "Did you know he (Kiddo) can read?"
Hubby, sighing:"Yes, mom, he can do math too."

We have discussed all this with these people! Did they not believe us, or ignore us completely?

Ari

04-15-2010, 09:22 PM

Pinhole cameras are fabulous. We did that in art class in middle school and learned how to develop our film, too. That was one of my favorite art projects.
Not that I'm biased or anything but cameras in general are great toys and learning tools for kids. A couple of different companies have rubberized basic digital cameras for kids (although with the price of some digicams what you pay for the "blues clues" branding you could buy a simple digicam and a rubber case). Disposable cameras are still around and a great way to allow kids to experiment without worrying about the camera. They are also simple enough that you can take them apart to see how they work and use pieces from them for other projects (note, the flash capacitor can pack quite a jolt and should be drained before letting kids mess with it).

Ensign Steve

04-15-2010, 09:33 PM

(note, the flash capacitor can pack quite a jolt and should be drained before letting kids mess with it).

:alarm: WRONG! :alarm:

http://www.5min.com/Video/Make-A-Powerful-Tazer-from-a-Camera-4246

LadyShea

06-17-2010, 11:07 PM

This email newsletter has daily links to free, cool educational stuff. Today I ordered a free poster about the Presidents from CSpan and a free DVD copy of America: The Story of Us...yay now I can delete it from my DVR! (And just say you are homeschooling when ordering shit, so far I have not been asked to prove it)

ClickSchooling (http://clickschooling.com/)

Qingdai

06-18-2010, 12:27 AM

How could you prove it? Show your anti-establishment card?

LadyShea

06-18-2010, 05:29 AM

Once official in my state, I will have a Church School Enrollment form. Some areas have homeschool student IDs from the school districts, some cover schools and virtual schools offer IDs. Also, members of homeschool buyers co-op (free) can print and/or order a nice looking ID. I guess many businesses offer educator discounts, like bookstores, and will ask for some kind of proof to prevent everyone from claiming homeschool status.

Our state used to offer free Discovery Education Streaming through PBS, but when I called I was told I had to name my Church school and enrollment would be verified. They ended up canceling the program recently anyway, but that was one time I was asked to prove it.

LadyShea

06-22-2010, 05:53 PM

I recently heard about "Thomas Jefferson Education"

Seven Keys of Great Teaching:

Classics, not Textbooks
Mentors, not Professors
Inspire, not Require
Structure Time, not Content
Quality, not Conformity
Simplicity, not Complexity
You, not Them.

Interesting! I am going to see if I can get the book from the library

LadyShea

07-15-2010, 04:39 PM

Okay update:

Halfway through The Reading Lesson (http://www.readinglesson.com/), recognizes about a dozen sight words, doing well with reading blended letters ch, sh, th, st, ar, ee

Almost done with Math U See Primer, have gotten Alpha but am holding off a few months. Working on telling time with a learning clock I scored on clearance at Target

Ordered Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding and am eagerly awaiting arrival. I have been reading the authors Yahoo group and he specifically created it to help develop critical thinking skills, so I think it's going to be great

Printed some worksheets and connect the dot puzzles for writing practice, and he is doing more of this at his request

Today he told me he wants to expand his rock collection, as well as add other interesting things from nature like feathers.

naturalist.atheist

07-15-2010, 05:12 PM

Today he told me he wants to expand his rock collection, as well as add other interesting things from nature like feathers.

Does he have any good specimens of petrified wood or fossils. If he doesn't that may be something you may want to get him to add to his collection. There are also some wonderful mineral specimens and geodes you could get him. If you are heading out any time soon to the parts of the country where such things are plentiful you could make it a field trip. There are also meteors. If you are in the gulf area there are still many specimens hanging around from the impact that killed off the dinosaurs.

There are lots and lots and lots of learning moments for discovery and exploration in them there rocks.

LadyShea

07-15-2010, 05:22 PM

LOL, He was watching Dinosaur Train, and the episode was all about collections, so he got on fire for expanding his. I got him started rock collecting when my mom pulled out the old tackle box I used for mine when I was his age. I also have some gemology training so know about some of the minerals from that.

He bought a trilobite fossil at a museum store, and I am researching areas nearby where we are likely to find fossils ourselves. We got some garnets and amethyst and clear quartz points when we were in N. Carolina last year as well...that was through a place where you bought a big bucket of dirt and "panned" it, so it was a fun activity as well.

I also have a trip to the Univ. of S. Alabama natural history museum in the final planning stages. I would love to help him find some meteor bits! Any ideas on where to start looking?

:iseewhatyoudid: wei, after all the social damage with the homeschoolburns you are thanking me. Hmm, is this some plot to keep me imbalanced?

wei yau

07-15-2010, 05:59 PM

:iseewhatyoudid: wei, after all the social damage with the homeschoolburns you are thanking me. Hmm, is this some plot to keep me imbalanced?

tee hee hee
:inscrutable:

lisarea

07-15-2010, 06:58 PM

This is a p stupid and disjointed article, but the topic itself is kind of interesting.

The Creativity Crisis - Newsweek (http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/10/the-creativity-crisis.html)

naturalist.atheist

07-15-2010, 07:25 PM

I would love to help him find some meteor bits! Any ideas on where to start looking?

You'll need a metal detector and some advice from local geologists of where exposed areas from the time of the impact can be found. They will usually be very small and can be collected with a strong magnet.

LadyShea

07-15-2010, 07:51 PM

This is a p stupid and disjointed article, but the topic itself is kind of interesting.

The Creativity Crisis - Newsweek (http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/10/the-creativity-crisis.html)

Those who came up with more good ideas on Torrance’s tasks grew up to be entrepreneurs, inventors, college presidents, authors, doctors, diplomats, and software developers. Jonathan Plucker of Indiana University recently reanalyzed Torrance’s data. The correlation to lifetime creative accomplishment was more than three times stronger for childhood creativity than childhood IQ.

That goes with my gut, that current education models don't encourage, and maybe even discourage, creativity and innovation.

Adam

07-15-2010, 09:31 PM

So, I'm not going to read the article, because Pee said it was dumb, but is "creativity correlates with creativity" really some kind of astonishing revelation?

LadyShea

07-15-2010, 09:35 PM

So, I'm not going to read the article, because Pee said it was dumb, but is "creativity correlates with creativity" really some kind of astonishing revelation?

I think it was saying that early creativity correlates with accomplishment (yes subjective but whatever) more than IQ does

Adam

07-15-2010, 09:43 PM

It specifically said "creative accomplishment", though. I can't tell (yes, I went back and read it :brooding: ) whether that is supposed to exclude other sorts of accomplishment or not. If so, it seems weird that it would be seen as surprising that creativity was a better predictor of creative accomplishment than intelligence.

LadyShea

07-17-2010, 03:34 PM

Weird coinkydink, Charlie Rose (http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11125) had a panel on discussing that creativity crisis article. Worth a watch, especially forBruce Alberts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Alberts)..the bit starting at about 8:30 is most pertinent to our recent discussions on educational methods.

naturalist.atheist

07-17-2010, 08:54 PM

I was listening to an interesting episode on radiolab (http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2009/10/09) about numbers. What occurs to me is that there are some very useful ways of thinking that do not come naturally to us. Yet if you do manage to master it, it opens up a whole new world of creative possibilities. Yet there are people that are just not comfortable with numbers as we use them in the modern world.

LadyShea

07-20-2010, 09:11 PM

Building Foundations of Scientific Understanding (http://www.amazon.com/Building-Foundations-Scientific-Understanding-Curriculum/dp/1432706101/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_a) finally arrived and holy shit I :heart: it already.

It was written for kids ages 5-7, but seems to me it could be adapted all the way through middle school, as it's that thorough. It is more of a way of thinking about science, and building inquiry into everyday lives, than a fact memorization type thing.

The introduction contains a section they call "Baloney Detection" and it discusses some commonly encountered fallacious reasoning like unsupported assertions, correlation vs. causation, and whatever the formal term is for accepting the answer at hand because you can't think of a better one. I know, for a fact, they do not teach these in many public schools. My nephew informed me they didn't even begin science instruction until 3rd grade.

The book is like 20.00 and would make a great supplement for anyone, regardless of where their kids are being edumucated.

LadyShea

07-27-2010, 09:20 PM

I have been kinda envious of the creative names people have for their homeschools, especially Lagniappe Academy, which I think is brilliant on many levels. Also, I wanna make homeschoolburns harder by calling myself a small private school. So with Chuck's help, I decided to name our homeschool Bon Secour Academy.

We live in the town of Bon Secour, on the Bon Secour River, which flows into Bon Secour Bay. So, my first reason for choosing it is location.

On an antique map I have seen, the area was originally called Bon Secours, the literal translation of which is "good help" or "good aid". In this case it was meant to indicate a safe harbor for sailors looking for shelter in a storm (the final s was dropped sometime in the 1800's for some reason, most likely non French speaking mapmakers simply misspelled it and it stuck). All of the area literature uses the loose translation "safe harbor".

I think both the translations work well for us

Janet

07-28-2010, 01:21 AM

I was wondering what happened to the S. I was born at Bon Secours Hospital in Grosse Pointe. They keep the French spellings in and around Detroit, but mispronounce them dreadfully.

lisarea

07-28-2010, 03:48 PM

I am not sure which one of Mrs. Shea's boring educational thrads this goes in, so feel free to ban me permanently if this is deemed the wrong one:

YouTube- Boing Boing Founder Mark Frauenfelder on DIY, Mistakes, and Unschooling

LadyShea

07-28-2010, 04:12 PM

If you're so bored quit reading pea!

naturalist.atheist

07-28-2010, 09:04 PM

Here is an example of home schooling taken to an entirely new level. I think the name of their school is "The Flying Neutrinos".

Hulu - Random Lunacy - Watch the full feature film now. (http://www.hulu.com/watch/122393/random-lunacy)

LadyShea

08-05-2010, 07:48 PM

BFSU has made a "Baloney Detection" poster for the kids.

1. Forceful declarations do not substantiate facts or truth

2. Every effect has a rational cause

3. Two events occurring in sequence do not imply a causal relationship

4. The universe is governed by natural laws and principles

5. The inability to think of an alternative does not make the reason at hand right, nor does proving one idea wrong make another idea right

6. All the data and/or observations must be considered

7. Beware of generalizing from the Particular to the universal

8. Quantities must add up

erimir

08-06-2010, 12:05 AM

Is that the exact wording?

Or is it written in more simple language?

naturalist.atheist

08-06-2010, 01:49 AM

LadyShea

08-06-2010, 02:19 AM

Is that the exact wording?

Or is it written in more simple language?

That's a copypasta. It's up to the teacher to explain or rephrase as needed.

LadyShea

09-21-2010, 05:52 PM

I got a really cool dumpster dived mirror, and set it on the floor until I could get it hung. Kiddo saw it and was playing whatever mirror exploration games came to mind, and then he said "What if I fell through the mirror?" That led to us starting Alice Through the Looking Glass (luckily I have the collected works of Lewis Carrol at hand!) complete with reading the opening stanzas of Jabberwocky in the mirror, exploring our own "Looking Glass House", and explaining chess, which Kiddo now wants to learn.

This, apparently, is what unschoolers call a "rabbit hole adventure", from what I understand, which LOL at the Alice coincidence. I don't know...but it was a very cool evening and he never realized he was learning.

Ensign Steve

09-21-2010, 06:02 PM

I want to know more about the "Looking Glass House." :popcorn:

ETA: fucking freegans itt

LadyShea

09-21-2010, 06:05 PM

Oh it wasn't that exciting, we just looked at the room through the mirror to spot the differences, and see how the reflection limits line of sight and 2d vs 3d kinda thing.

LadyShea

09-21-2010, 06:12 PM

Hey, dumpster diving is a way to get cool shit for free. Frugality is not necessarily a political statement or whatever. The mirror came from my brothers house when he moved, and was in the charity pile. So it was more like reclaimed from the poors.

IOW, don't call me a freegan!

Ensign Steve

09-21-2010, 06:48 PM

Oh it wasn't that exciting, we just looked at the room through the mirror to spot the differences, and see how the reflection limits line of sight and 2d vs 3d kinda thing.

That's super interesting! Next time you go down a mirror-based rabbit hole, you should bust out the laser pointer. Or get some concave or convex mirrors, or a magnifying mirror. :eager:

LadyShea

09-21-2010, 07:03 PM

Ooh, I hadn't thought of the laser pointer, although we have one sitting right next to the mirror (actually it was a laser sight off a spring gun, but same thing)

Qingdai

09-22-2010, 07:50 AM

:freakout:

Some one gave me a copy of an early phonics system for teaching reading. It's highly scripted, but sort of interesting. I might try it with my son.
"Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons" by Siegfried Engelmann

LadyShea

09-22-2010, 03:51 PM

That one is really highly thought of Qing, constantly recommended on homeschool sites. It was on my short list. In fact it came down to that or the one I bought.

Pan Narrans

09-22-2010, 04:21 PM

http://www.pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF199-Missing_School.gif

lisarea

09-28-2010, 08:17 PM

This is pretty boring looking, so I thought you would probably like it:

DocsTeach (http://docsteach.org/)

LadyShea

09-28-2010, 08:45 PM

:ffstare:

And it isn't boring at all, and I do like it

LadyShea

03-22-2011, 04:27 PM

So I took a long break from teaching reading. Kiddo was making the correct letter sounds, combining them into words, and reading some sight words, but it wasn't all clicking together when we tried to read sentences or paragraphs. It was like he could identify an oak tree and a pine tree and see that there were many trees, but was not coming up with "forest" (crappy analogy but it's the best I can come up with)

Anyway, two days ago he busts out actually reading Fox in Socks with hubby and I was all WTF, when did that happen? We haven't been working on it at all. So then I wondered if he was reciting from mostly memory and throwing in "reading" a few words.

Last night I got out The Bob Books, which we haven't even looked at in 8 months or so. He read 5 of them. He had to sound out some of the words, but once he got them he could then read the whole sentence as a sentence, instead of just saying a series of words, ya know?

Fucking brains, how do they work?

The Lone Ranger

03-22-2011, 04:34 PM

I was a little like that. For years, people tried to get me to read. I learned to sound out the words okay, but had no interest in it, because all I was really doing was memorizing the words.

Then one day, I happened to pick up a book on my own, one that hadn't been "assigned" to me. Somewhat to my surprise, I discovered that I could read and understand it all on my own. From that moment onward, I was a voracious reader.

Cheers,

Michael

But

03-23-2011, 02:57 AM

I would recommend interesting and kind of naughty stories with lots of rhymes in them and a steady meter. If your focus is teaching to read, that is. I could read at age 3 and I think the reading material provided to me then always had a fair amount of rhymes in it. The one that really got me started was Max und Moritz by Wilhelm Busch, a 19th-century illustrated story about two kids that cause mayhem with all sorts of dangerous and life-threatening pranks until they are thrown into the grain mill. I know that I read it over and over again and it was part reading it and part memorized, so I knew the words, could read them and also do it by myself because I liked the story, the rhymes and the pictures.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Max_und_Moritz_%28Busch%29_021.png/341px-Max_und_Moritz_%28Busch%29_021.png

Chris Porter

03-31-2011, 07:42 PM

Qingdai

04-29-2011, 06:12 PM

This may be relevant to your interests.

Arvind Gupta: Turning trash into toys for learning | Video on TED.com (http://www.ted.com/talks/arvind_gupta_turning_trash_into_toys_for_learning.html)

Qingdai

05-03-2011, 06:28 PM

This also sort of seems to be about the objections I have with public education today.

I haven't seen it, has anyone else?

http://www.slate.com/id/2292408/

LadyShea

05-03-2011, 06:30 PM

I have not, though I really want to see it. I doubt it will be shown here in the Southern sticks. I am pretty sure you can get the same type of info/arguments from reading Gatto and Blumenfeld (though the latter is way too much pro-privatization for me to actually recommend)

Waiting for Superman is another film I am anxious to see.

One for Sorrow

05-16-2011, 02:55 AM

Qingdai

05-16-2011, 04:36 AM

Race to Nowhere is available on Netflix.

LadyShea

05-16-2011, 05:33 AM

Hey LS,

I don't know if you've already seen this, but you may find it interesting:

School teaches by ability, not grade level. (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/14/education.gradeless/index.html?hpt=C2)

From the link:

Children work at their own level in each subject and must demonstrate proficiency in various learning targets, achieving a score of 75% or higher before they're allowed to move on to the next level.

That makes so much more sense than trying to get 30 kids to learn the same material at the same speed all together, which almost guarantees someone is being held back and someone is being left behind.

Vivisectus

05-16-2011, 10:05 AM

Monstessori is a great type to choose if it is available in your area. They allow children to work at their own level and pace.

LadyShea

05-16-2011, 03:16 PM

Nope, closest Montessori is 40 minutes away and out of my price range

Ensign Steve

06-09-2011, 05:18 PM

Hey! I went dumpster diving at work today and found a huge pile of books for giveaway. Of course I work in the College of Education, so they're books about education. We're all about teaching teachers to teach and it's very academic and high-level and super dry, but some of it seems more practical than others. Plus I thought you might just be interested in seeing the field education from the "other side".

I picked through and pulled out a shitload of titles that I thought would be relevant to your interests. I was going to bring them all home and let you pick through, but I realized I could save myself a haul by asking in advance. Plus I was just too excited not to share.

Do you like any of these titles?

Changing Teaching, Changing Schools: Bringing Early Childhood Practice Into Public Education
What Works in Schools: Translating Research into Action
Bringing Out the Best in Teachers: What Effective Principals Do
Student Outcomes Assessment: A Historical Review and Guide to Program Development
Giving Up on School: Student Dropouts and Teacher Burnouts
Engaging Children: Community and Chaos in the Lives of Young Literacy Learners (this one might more focused on children from seriously troubled backgrounds, I'm not sure)
Redesigning Teaching: Professionalism or Bureaucracy?
Social Issues and Education: Challenge & Responsibility
Secondary School Examinations: International Perspectives on Policies and Practice
Teaching and Counseling Gifted and Talented Adolescents: An International Learning Style Perspective
Children's Emergent Literacy: From Research to Practice
Schools for a New Century: A Conservative Approach to Radical School Reform

If you're not sure and want to thumb through first, say yes. Anything you don't take will be donated to the library which was what was going to happen to them in the first place anyway.

LadyShea

06-09-2011, 06:03 PM

Oh wow. Yes please, I would like to look more closely at all of them if you don't mind. If they look too dry to be useful, you can haul them to the library for me :)

wei yau

06-09-2011, 06:14 PM

Maybe ES can take a photo of each page of each book and upload it here for Shea to review and comment?

Ensign Steve

06-09-2011, 06:15 PM

Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! One more!

Narrative Schooling: Experiential Learning and the Transformation of American Education

Check it:

The secondary schools in particular show in their instructional practices an almost total disregard for the experience of students. They are arenas of intense control and manipulation endured by an objectified, disembodied, and often alienated student population. For many students, even those who have learned how to work the system, attending school is an inauthentic experience to be endured until real life begins.

One serious consequence of this condition is that the student energy is wasted on making sense of or opposing the school itself. Adaptation is necessary in any social system, of course, and there are useful things to be learned from this, but it is an important premise of this book that too many students spend too much energy in coping with an arbitrary environment dedicated to the control of their natural developmental impulses, most significantly the impulse to define themselves through work and narrative action.

The thing that kills me is that the research is there, it just doesn't seem to get applied. There are literally piles of these books around the office that say the exact same stuff, but who is reading them? Why the disconnect between the research and the practice? Why even spend the resources on the research if you're not going to apply it?

These tenured professors have been in academia for so long, it's like they're writing in a vacuum. All that have to do is publish, they don't care if anybody reads what they put out. Okay, maybe they do care, but their cushy job doesn't depend on it. And it's certainly not in their best interests to buck the educational status quo considering they're at the top of the food chain.

I don't know, maybe this shit will just angry up the blood. The more you know about their field, the more incompetent and uneducated the local teachers and administrators are going to seem. I work with these guys, too. I swear to god some of them are learning disabled themselves. Maybe they jumped on the Doctor-Teacher-Firefighter train at a young age and are victims of the very same broken system they're now working in. Maybe it's lack of communication, lack of resources, lack of education (ha!).

Meh, it's probably all just policy bullshit anyway. Like the lunch ladies on Jamie Oliver's show know that chicken nuggets and hamburger buns are not health food, but rules is rules and you gotta do your job. It always comes down to food with me, doesn't it?

LadyShea

06-09-2011, 06:31 PM

Well, although a lot of my research and the discussions I have had regarding it does anger up my blood, it is also a practical exercise for me. My once vague and unexplored, and certainly unsupported and almost inarticulate, negative view of the school system is now an actual opinion with bases and citations and facts at hand and I can discuss it rationally.

From a practical standpoint I now have a better idea what to be on the lookout for, where I will likely stand firm and where I will be willing to compromise, some ideas of how to mitigate certain aspects, and our available options.

LadyShea

06-09-2011, 06:45 PM

You know, the above is kinda true for almost all of my opinions, and I have the Internet to thank for that. Before, I had to do research at the library and it was always limited, and then I could rarely find people interested or knowledgeable enough to argue or discuss with to help me refine or articulate anything.

Now I can find almost any information and have a plethora of people, :ff: being the bestest group, to talk to about it.

Qingdai

07-13-2011, 06:54 AM

:news:
I finally found out which school my child will be attending next year. It's fairly far from my house in time, but not distance.
He's going to be in an externalizing behavior class (in with a bunch of hitters and screamers, not my choice), but the plus side is he will be in an art focus magnet school. So when he transitions into regular classrooms he'll be in a school's whose philosophy is actually based on educational research. Multiple intelligence to be specific, which is explained HERE. (http://web.cortland.edu/andersmd/learning/MI%20Theory.htm)

I'm pretty excited about that aspect. I am sad I won't get to walk him to school any more. Also no uniforms!

LadyShea

07-13-2011, 02:26 PM

Keep us posted on how it all works out, Q!

LadyShea

01-13-2012, 11:55 PM

Okay, Kiddo has now finished his first semester of Kindergarten. As I have mentioned, because I have done all this homeschool research, and did some preschool, and have my own goals and benchmarks for him, I am pretty relaxed about his "official" progress.

So, I have something I was aware of, and was just reminded of by his report card. Kiddo doesn't really understand the concept of rhyming. Maybe he doesn't understand the word rhyme. I dunno.

He can come up with rhyming words if we play a game, like a round robin of rhymes, and he sometimes spontaneously rhymes and recognizes it- just playing with the language- but if you ask him "Do these two words rhyme, x and y" he always gets some wrong. He'll hear any similarities, and conclude that's a rhyme (same vowel sound, different ending sounds mostly)

SO, what value is understanding rhyming to his reading or learning at this point? I mean, do I give a shit and work on it with him because it's important to some cognitive function, or do I blow it off?

livius drusus

01-14-2012, 12:38 AM

He's right. Assonance is rhyming. It's just not an end rhyme. Skip him into middle school English.

maddog

01-14-2012, 12:39 AM

I think you blow it off. Old English epic poems have the poetic "form" of using the same first letter, not the same last-syllable-sound. (Beowulf, e.g.) It's kindergarten. It will click for him later, if it has to at all.

#2843

LadyShea

01-14-2012, 12:46 AM

I wonder what the school thinks the importance is, educationally, that it's on his Kindergarten report card?

Ensign Steve

01-14-2012, 12:48 AM

(Not being a parent or a teacher, it's super easy for me to say...)

I wouldn't think twice about it. Sing songs, read poems, make up songs and poems, play with the words and have fun. I do think it's cool that you got that report card with that particular arbitrary benchmark on it, though, if you needed an excuse to add more music and poetry to your curriculum. Gee, maybe if there were more arts in schools ... :chin:

Even if it were a real biological or cognitive thing, who cares? What are you going to do about it? How is it any more debilitating than color-blindness or some other crap? So he doesn't perceive everything exactly the same as everyone else. Big whoop. Nobody does.

random: Do you know there is ASL poetry? Things can "rhyme" depending on whether the hands are shaped the same way, or there's tons of other variables you can play with which make for really fascinating and beautiful poems on the hands and face. We composed poems that I would compare to a written acrostic, but you use the fingerspelling alphabet and incorporate it into the poem. It was great for practice and I felt like I was in elementary school all over again doing poems about the sun and the rain and basic elementary vocabulary to practice a new language.

lisarea

01-14-2012, 12:55 AM

He's right. Assonance is rhyming. It's just not an end rhyme. Skip him into middle school English.

Or MIDDLE ENGLISH SCHOOL!

Get it? Heeey!

Oh god, everybody hates me.

Anyways, yeah, it's not something I'd worry about unless it bothers him.

LadyShea

01-14-2012, 01:06 AM

Even if it were a real biological or cognitive thing, who cares? What are you going to do about it? How is it any more debilitating than color-blindness or some other crap? So he doesn't perceive everything exactly the same as everyone else. Big whoop. Nobody does.

Well I'd play with rhyming more, I guess. I don't give a shit because I don't write much. But if it's some important developmental deal, I'll add it some

Qingdai

01-14-2012, 04:49 AM

I think knowing that things can rhyme and that lots of young child books use rhyming to build vocabulary might be what they're checking for there.

If you know the word "boom" "broom" might make sense to you. So rhyming is a part of reading skills, but by no means the only or the most important. Continual reading and having books around the house seems to be the biggest factor.

BrotherMan

01-14-2012, 07:56 AM

You should let him learn from this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=NMexHe2I4fU).

LadyShea

01-14-2012, 01:31 PM

That kid is cool...he's funny and understands the rhymes

Ensign Steve

01-14-2012, 02:08 PM

I like how he rhymes syllables with flows. It works the way he says it. :thumbup:

LadyShea

01-14-2012, 03:17 PM

He is reading very well, I am quite happy with his progress. I am pretty sure that being a reading family with a house full of books is a contributing factor, as you mentioned, Q.

His writing and coloring and cutting have improved...though they'll probably never be, you know, excellent or anything.

Which is funny, his motor skills and coordination are fine for Lego building and video game controllers, but holding a writing implement or scissors, and even eating utensils is difficult and/or awkward. I wonder if that's partly due to building and video game controlling being two handed, while writing and cutting is only one? If he's mixed dominance as I suspect*, then tasks that allow both sides to be involved would be more easily mastered, don't you think?

*He seems to prefer his right hand for writing, utensil holding, but his left side for everything else like kicking, cartwheeling, throwing, golfing, and batting. He holds his Wii controller in his left and the nunchuck in his right, like a lefty

ceptimus

01-15-2012, 10:46 AM

Rhyming is overrated.

"Let us be lovers we'll marry our fortunes together"
"I've got some real estate here in my bag"
So we bought a pack of cigarettes and Mrs. Wagner pies
And we walked off to look for America

"Kathy," I said as we boarded a Greyhound in Pittsburgh
"Michigan seems like a dream to me now"
It took me four days to hitchhike from Saginaw
I've gone to look for America

Laughing on the bus
Playing games with the faces
She said the man in the gabardine suit was a spy
I said "Be careful his bowtie is really a camera"

"Toss me a cigarette, I think there's one in my raincoat"
"We smoked the last one an hour ago"
So I looked at the scenery, she read her magazine
And the moon rose over an open field

"Kathy, I'm lost," I said, though I knew she was sleeping
I'm empty and aching and I don't know why
Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
They've all gone to look for America
All gone to look for America
All gone to look for America