What religion, if any, has Superman?

[Abdul Alhazred]

I've done this on other forums, but now that Ceptimus has turned me on to this forum, I'm doing it here.

I say that Superman is an atheist. He's a strange visitor from another planet, so he isn't a Catholic or Protestant or any human religion. Unless Clark Kent converted to something to marry Lois, but there's no evidence of that.

There's no evidence of the Kryptonians having any religion. Not from the movies or the TV show or any of the "universes" in the comics. Unless they retconned one lately.

OK he was brought up in rural Kansas, so he might be a Christian fundie, but he never tried to bring his pal Jimmy Olsen to Christ, so I say not.

But maybe he's Jewish:

Superman versus Hitler and Stalin:
http://superman.ws/tales2/endsthewar/

The Nazis reply:
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/superman.htm

Wonder Woman is certainly a Pagan.

Batman is what?

What about Lightening Lad, Lightening Lass (good guys), and Lightening Lord (bad guy)?

[livius drusus]

Maybe he's a deist? That would fit in with the whole American Way fetish he's got going on. Now Batman, there's an atheist for you.

[wei yau]

Maybe he's a deist? That would fit in with the whole American Way fetish he's got going on. Now Batman, there's an atheist for you.

:batman3:

Just look at him. He's one grim atheist.

As for the OP, a superhero's religious beliefs aren't ever really discussed in comics. If it is covered, then the character is obviously religious, such as Thor's villain "The Crusader" is obviously Christian. Or the character actually interacts with gods, like Wonder Woman. Actually, the existence of mythological gods in the comic book universe must make it difficult for anyone to be an atheist. Although, such gods are usually treated as incredibly powerful otherwordly beings, but not actual Creators.

Some characters have the default religion of whatever cultural identity they've been given. I'm fairly certain that Northstar and Aurora, being French Canadian are Catholics. Ramban of Israel is most certainly Orthodox Jewish. And any number of Arab supervillains are most likely Muslim.

For those characters who are give no hint to their religious beliefs, like Superman, it's hard to say. I don't recall if there was clergy at his wedding, although the presence of such a person could have been at the insistence of Lois Lane. That being said, I'd have to agree with livius that Superman is probably a deist. With strong leanings toward generic Christianity.

I suppose the heavy-hitters in any given comic book universe are deliberately written without hint to religious affiliation. This would avoid alienating or insulting anyone in the audience.

[Dingfod]

What about Lightening Lad, Lightening Lass (good guys), and Lightening Lord (bad guy)?What superpowers do they have, make you lighter with one glance? Bad guys would just float off into space.


Wait, you probably meant lightning.

[viscousmemories]

Spelling nazi. :laugh:

[Ensign Steve]

I hate when people spell "lightening" the way warren does.

How bizzare, though! We had a conversation at work today about what religions were the X-Men.

[livius drusus]

And what conclusions did you come to?

[Ensign Steve]

I assumed that Wolverine and Magneto were Jewish, because they were in the Nazi prison camps; it had never occurred to me that they could have been there because they were mutants. Long story short, I have no idea what they are.

[Abdul Alhazred]

There is a presumption of atheism for all superheroes, unless there is evidence to the contrary.

Wonder Woman is a Pagan, for sure. But what about the rest?

Can you picture the Flash going to church, for example? Or schule or mosque?

Now let's talk about sexual orientations.

Most superheroes are straight. Like most people are straight, no surprise. Clark and Lois, etcetera.

I could say something about skin-tight body suits, but that's just a uniform.

But what about Batman and his "ward"? And his butler? Hmmm.

The TV show threw in Aunt Harriet, a non-canonical character, to defuse the gay thing. :D

[viscousmemories]

I never suspected for a minute that Batman and Robin were straight.

[wei yau]

Can you picture the Flash going to church, for example? Or schule or mosque?


Curiously enough, in an alternate future, there is a religion worshipping The Flash.

[livius drusus]

That's pretty cool, eldar. Why do they worship him? Just cause he can run really fast?

:flash:
:bow2:

[wei yau]

That's pretty cool, eldar. Why do they worship him? Just cause he can run really fast?

:flash:
:bow2:

Oh. My. God.

Where did the smiley come from? Have I simply missed him all this time?

That is just too freakin' cool. The Flash is one of my most favoritest heroes ever!

Whether or not I missed him or you just added him, matters not.

All that matters is that you are praised for being the most wonderful, incredible, awesome and super-fantastic smiley gatherer ever.

Just when I thought I could not possibly be more impressed by you, you blow me away.

(Oh and to answer your question, if I recall correctly, The Flash saved the life of some guy. Said guy was pretty delusional, but charismatic. Started a cult, which eventually developed into an established religion. I think...or was that Superman?)

(PS: Turns out that was Superman. Did some research on my favorite Flash site and this is the storyline (http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/future.html#c64) I was remembering. )

[livius drusus]

Oh he's been here ages. I uploaded him, the classic version and Firestorm all together a while back.

:flashcl: :firestrm: :flash:

[wei yau]

Oh he's been here ages. I uploaded him, the classic version and Firestorm all together a while back.

:flashcl: :firestrm: :flash:

Oh. Man.

You're killing me today, liv. Just plain killing me.

[livius drusus]

:qcool:
:ww:

[wei yau]

:rolldead:

[Sauron]

:batman3:

Just look at him. He's one grim atheist.

Huh?

You'er kidding, right? Dark clothes, a cape, black leather boots and only comes out at night? Batman is a goth. The original goth, from Gotham. :chuckle: So he's probably a wiccan, too.

Xavier and Magneto are brothers, and they're both Jewish. I seem to remember reading that in one of the comics.

Storm was found as a street kid in Cairo. So she's probably Muslim.

Thor is a god. So he's well, obviously, a pagan. Although in his case, it's a case of spirituality that is probably narcissism of some kind.

Spiderman is my vote for the freethinker-scientist type.

Seems that a couple of them are gay; I think Green Arrow and Northstar are gay.
http://www.answers.com/topic/northstar

[Abdul Alhazred]

We had a conversation at work today about what religions were the X-Men.

Good question about the X-Men. I'd be inclined to say atheist, but considering that they are 'Marvel', likely some New Age bull----.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Miracle Monday, the Supermanic Passover!

[Dingfod]

I hate when people spell "lightening" the way warren does.You hate it when people spell lightning right? How odd.


Can you picture the Flash going to church, for example? Or schule or mosque?


Curiously enough, in an alternate future, there is a religion worshipping The Flash.That doesn't sound that far-fetched, there's a religion right now worshipping The Partridge Family (http://www.partridgefamilytemple.com/keith.htm). What kind of superpowers did they have besides making people sick with their syrupy dialog and brain-dead music?

[Dingfod]

Homer Simpson:
I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me Superman.

[The Lone Ranger]

Frankly, I'd say the correct answer is: "It depends on who's writing the character at the moment."

Superman frequently says, "Great Rao!" in moments of surprise or distress. Rao is the chief Kryptonian deity. I've never gotten the impression that Supes was being too serious, though.

A few years ago, there was a Batman/Superman crossover in which Batman actually discovered the Holy Grail (and used it to heal himself after being critically wounded). He and Supes discussed what to do with it, and decided that it must be hidden, because if it was generally known that it existed, Holy Wars would break out over it. Both Batman and Superman clearly believed that it was the Cup of Christ, implying that they were both Christians of some sort.

On the other hand, in an issue of Justice League a few years ago, Batman was holding an artifact when Wonder Woman slapped it away from him, claiming that it was "unholy." Batman dryly replied, "Ah. That explains the near-severing of my atheistic hand."


From Superman II:
"What a nice man; of course he's Jewish!"




Good question about the X-Men. I'd be inclined to say atheist, but considering that they are 'Marvel', likely some New Age bull----.

Nightcrawler is an ordained Catholic priest. I've never gotten the impression that Wolverine takes religion seriously. Storm is literally worshipped as a goddess by some.

There was an interesting Thor story not too long ago, centering on the fact that there are apparently some in the Marvel Universe who worship Thor. A Catholic priest called one of them a blasphemer against the "One True God," and the Thor-worshiper pointed out that his god makes public appearances -- can the same be said of yours?

***

Edited to add:

For DC comics heroes, I suppose a good question is: "Do you consider the Vertigo Universe to be part of the 'Mainstream' DC Universe?"

There are numerous characters that frequently appear in both Vertigo and "Mainstream" DC titles, including The Phantom Stranger, John Constantine, Swamp Thing, and the Demon Etrigan.

"Mainstream" DC characters, including the Justice League, have been referenced in Vertigo titles. The Martian Manhunter appeared in an issue of Sandman, and actually met Morpheus, whom he regarded as a god. Similarly, Captain Marvel and Dr. Fate have appeared in at least one issue of The Books of Magic.

My point? In the Vertigo Universe, the existence of Heaven and Hell are brute facts. Morpheus has been to Hell, has met Lucifer, demons, and angels, and makes numerous references to Heaven. Lucifer himself in the Sandman series makes numerous references to He and Him, obviously referring to God.

So, if the Vertigo Universe is part of the Mainstream DC Universe, certain characters (notably Dr. Fate) would know beyond any doubt that Heaven and Hell exist.

With that in mind, The Spectre is supposed to be the living embodiment of the Wrath of God. Since Superman, Batman, et alia have met The Spectre on numerous occasions, they'd pretty-much have to believe in the existence of some sort of God, I'd think.

Cheers,

Michael

[Godless Dave]

Thanks for the info, Lone Ranger. I would add to it, though, that believing in is not the same as worshipping.

[seebs]

FWIW, there was a spinoff where he was raised Amish.

[Abdul Alhazred]

We know Perry White has a religion.

"Great Caesar's ghost!"

[Ensign Steve]

Xavier and Magneto are brothers, and they're both Jewish. I seem to remember reading that in one of the comics.

Yay! Vindicated am I!

(they're brothers?!)

[Abdul Alhazred]

OK, so I spelled it wrong.

I still say Superman is an athiest.

Him saying "Great Rao!" is like me saying "God damn it!"

[livius drusus]

Um, if you're talking about the word "atheist" you spelled it wrong now. You spelled it right in your OP.

[The Lone Ranger]

Xavier and Magneto are brothers, and they're both Jewish. I seem to remember reading that in one of the comics.

Yay! Vindicated am I!

(they're brothers?!)

Actually, Xavier and Magneto are unrelated, at least as far as has been revealed. Sometimes Magneto uses the term "brother" in the sense of "brother mutant" though, but not just with Xavier. Xavier and Magneto have known each other since childhood and are on-again/off-again friends, but apparently unrelated.

Juggernaut is Xavier's half-brother.

Cheers,

Michael

[wei yau]

Frankly, I'd say the correct answer is: "It depends on who's writing the character at the moment."

Superman frequently says, "Great Rao!" in moments of surprise or distress. Rao is the chief Kryptonian deity. I've never gotten the impression that Supes was being too serious, though.

You're absolutely right with regards to "It depends on who's writing the character." Case in point, the pre-Crisis Superman frequently exclaimed "Great Rao!", though I do not recall the post-Crisis (post-Byrne) Superman to have uttered such a phrase.


My point? In the Vertigo Universe, the existence of Heaven and Hell are brute facts. Morpheus has been to Hell, has met Lucifer, demons, and angels, and makes numerous references to Heaven. Lucifer himself in the Sandman series makes numerous references to He and Him, obviously referring to God.

So, if the Vertigo Universe is part of the Mainstream DC Universe, certain characters (notably Dr. Fate) would know beyond any doubt that Heaven and Hell exist.

Even when you exclude the Vertigo Universe, Heaven and Hell have been pretty well-established in the mainstream DCU. There was a horrible crossover a few years back, involving a "Devil" named Neron, making pacts with various characters to augment their powers in exchange for their soul.

With that in mind, The Spectre is supposed to be the living embodiment of the Wrath of God. Since Superman, Batman, et alia have met The Spectre on numerous occasions, they'd pretty-much have to believe in the existence of some sort of God, I'd think.

I'd have to say that a true, hardcore, militant atheist superhero would be a rarity, given their experiences with not only Earthly gods (including the entire mythological pantheons of Greece, Rome and Egypt), but several heroes have had experience with alien gods (especially Hawkman/Hawkwoman and the Hawk God of Thanagar).

So, given all of this experience, I'd figure that a rational hero would at least be agnostic with regards to the question of a monotheistic God. After all, for all they know, this god is simply a super-powered alien.

[The Lone Ranger]

OK, so I spelled it wrong.

I still say Superman is an athiest.

Him saying "Great Rao!" is like me saying "God damn it!"

Well, as Godless Dave pointed out, there's a difference between believing and worshipping. Superman and especially Batman don't seem too religious, for instance. On the other hand, the Martian Manhunter immediately got down on his knees upon encountering Morpheus. I can't imagine Batman doing that if he met God Himself.

On the other hand, it seems difficult to see how anyone could be an atheist in the DC Universe, given that it's stated as a fact that God, Heaven, Lucifer, Hell -- as well as a variety of lesser gods -- exist. The Justice League has encountered honest-to-goodness angels on occasion, not to mention The Spectre, who is the living embodiment of the Wrath of God.

***

This raises the question, though: what is a "god"?

Wonder Woman frequently interacts with deities from the Greek Pantheon, and she calls them gods. She clearly doesn't worship them, however -- at least, not all of them. She's quite openly antagonistic toward Ares, for instance. The point is that "gods" actually exist in the DC Universe (the Marvel Universe too, for that matter), and superheroes frequently encounter them.

Magic clearly exists in the DC Universe, too, and that fact is recognized by all -- including Batman. On the one hand, you have alien beings like the Martian Manhunter and Superman who defy the laws of physics by their mere existence. These are beings who can ignore gravity and shoot beams of energy from their eyes -- their abilities could only be described as "magical." And the Green Lanterns' rings can only be described as "magical" devices. At the opposite extreme, you have perfectly ordinary humans like John Constantine who have learned to tap into "magical energies" and exploit them for their own purposes.

It would appear that "magic" is just another form of energy in the DC Universe. Some beings are born with innate magical abilities, while others have no such innate abilities but can nonetheless learn to manipulate magical energies.

With that in mind, "gods" may be regarded as merely beings who happen to have access to more magical abilities than do most. After all, Superman's abilities equal or exceed those of most "gods," but few consider Superman to be a god of any sort. By extension, even God Himself could be regarded as merely an ultra-powerful being, but not different in principle from any of the other immortal magic-users who populate the DC Universe.



In short, given that "gods" actually exist within the DC Universe, and Superman and company have met them on numerous occasions -- including representatives of the "One True God" -- it'd be awfully difficult for them to truly be atheists. On the other hand, they may regard the gods -- all of them -- as merely extra-powerful magic-users whose existence must be recognized, but who are not necessarily worthy of worship.

Cheers,

Michael

[The Lone Ranger]

There is a presumption of atheism for all superheroes, unless there is evidence to the contrary.
I don't think that follows. After all, the great majority of people (at least in this country) are religious believers of some sort. If the comics mimic reality at all, we'd have to accept that the most reasonable assumption is that most superheroes have some sort of religious beliefs "in real life."

Now let's talk about sexual orientations.

Most superheroes are straight. Like most people are straight, no surprise. Clark and Lois, etcetera.

I could say something about skin-tight body suits, but that's just a uniform.

But what about Batman and his "ward"? And his butler? Hmmm.

The TV show threw in Aunt Harriet, a non-canonical character, to defuse the gay thing. :D

I never got the impression that Batman and Robin are gay at all. If anything, Batman's nearly asexual. He's simply far too committed to his war on crime to take much time for such "trivial" matters as relationships.

Even so, it's been clearly established that he's heterosexual. He has had an on-again/off-again relationship with Catwoman for years. He actually had a son with Talia (Ra's al Ghul's daughter), though Talia hid that fact from him, so Batman doesn't know that he's a father.

Marvel's Northstar was openly gay, as is The Rawhide Kid.


Cheers,

Michael

[Abdul Alhazred]

Marvel's Northstar was openly gay, as is The Rawhide Kid.
Cheers,

Michael

The Rawhide Kid is gay?

Not surprised, but that must be something new.

I guess I'd better start reading the funnies again.

[beyelzu]

I assumed that Wolverine and Magneto were Jewish, because they were in the Nazi prison camps; it had never occurred to me that they could have been there because they were mutants. Long story short, I have no idea what they are.
wolverine was not in a nazi concenatration camp, magneto was jewish.

[viscousmemories]

Even so, it's been clearly established that he's heterosexual. He has had an on-again/off-again relationship with Catwoman for years.
Yeah but does homo/heterosexual apply to someone into anthrobestiality*?

* Yeah I made the word up. Is it accurate? Maybe anthropobestiality? Or something?

[Ronin]

Batman is an atheist:

http://photo5.matchnet.com/beta/2005/03/18/19/80180113.jpg

As for this...

If anything, Batman's nearly asexual. He's simply far too committed to his war on crime to take much time for such "trivial" matters as relationships.

Selina Kyle...the best of both worlds.

[xavierOnassis]

We know Perry White has a religion.

"Great Caesar's ghost!"

this superman fixation of yours... might want to see someone about it, could get out of hand you know... :innocent:

WAIT a minute... I just noticed you're posting the same over at FF...over and over again... that's it man... no more superheroes in tights for you...

[Abdul Alhazred]

We know Perry White has a religion.

"Great Caesar's ghost!"

this superman fixation of yours... might want to see someone about it, could get out of hand you know... :innocent:

WAIT a minute... I just noticed you're posting the same over at FF...over and over again... that's it man... no more superheroes in tights for you...

C'mon. Have fun.

Here is G.K.Chesterton's take on the Superman (1909)
http://www.dur.ac.uk/martin.ward/gkc/books/HIFTS.html

:D