Punctuation mavens, to me!

[JoeP]

A debate is raging in the office (with all the force of a misplaced comma). I need to be able to trump them all with "Internet experts said so".

You are writing or editing a business document that contains a bulleted list (because business documents are pale wraiths without bulleted lists). After every item except for the last, you should place:

A semicolon, because each item is part of a very long sentence;
A full stop ("period"), because each item ends a sentence.
No punctuation at all , because it's unnecessary
Other, please specify.

[BrotherMan]

A full stop if you are using complete sentences.


This is a complete sentence on a bulleted list.
This too is a complete sentence on a bulleted list.
Why are you reading this sentence?



No punctuation at all if you are using incomplete sentences or simply listing items.


Gallon of milk
Loaf of Bread
Stick of Butter

[erimir]

I would follow the style BrotherMan said.

But I don't really know what is considered "proper" according to style guides. I'm not too concerned about that either.

[viscousmemories]

I answered "Nothing", because that's how I do it. Actually I pretty much follow Brotherman's style, but it always feels awkward to me. That said, here is what one "authority" on the subject has to say. This is from The Plain English Approach to Business Writing, by Edward P. Bailey, Jr. (1997):

When you're using bulleted paragraphs, you don't have to worry about using special punctuation--just punctuate normally.

However, when you're using bulleted lists, you may wonder whether to start with a capital letter and whether to put a period at the end. After all, some lists are only words or phrases.

There are two common methods: the traditional method and the contemporary method (which I learned from Dr. Ginny Redish).

The traditional method--still quite popular--simply keeps the punctuation the list would have if it were part of a normal paragraph. Here's a list that's part of a normal paragraph--it's not bulleted yet:
The order was late on April 15, late on April 16, and on time on April 17.
The traditional method would keep that same punctuation, pretending the list is still part of a regular sentence:
The order was:
late on April 15,
late on April 16, and
on time on April 17.
The contemporary method--gaining popularity--stops the pretense that there's a sentence and gets rid of the commas, the period, and the word and:
The order was:
late on April 15
late on April 16
on time on April 17
Where's the period to end the sentence? I don't know. There simply isn't one. But readers are more likely to notice a period there than a period missing. The contemporary method places more importance on each item in the list having the same appearance than on pretending the list is still a "sentence."

So here's how the contemporary method handles punctuation and capitalization:
[list] If the bulleted item is a sentence, make it look like one (that is, start with a capital letter and put a period at the end).
If the bulleted item is [i]not a sentence, don't. That is, don't start with a capital letter and don't put any punctuation at the end.

Let's look at several examples. You've seen the next one before. Notice that the items in it are not sentences, so they don't begin with capital letters or end with periods:

The order was:
late on April 15
late on April 16
on time on April 17

Now let's rewrite that example to make the items into sentences. Notice that they now look like sentences--with capital letters and periods:

Here's what happened to the orders:
They were late on April 15.
They were late on April 16.
They were on time on April 17.


Phew, I think that might have taken a lot longer to type than it was worth.

[mickthinks]

It's the kind of thing only middle-managers and wouldbe middle-managers worry about. So to answer the question most productively, seek out the most senior of the managers in your operation who give a shit, and do it their way.

But Brotherman nailed it, I reckon.

[Watser?]

This is one of the things I've never been completely sure how to do in English, I'm glad I'm not the only one. But in Dutch it should be semicolons, like so:

The order was:

* late on April 15;
* late on April 16;
* on time on April 17.

[Stormlight]

That's also how it's down in French. Commas after sub-categories, though.

[Sock Puppet]

I'm pretty much in agreement with BrotherMan as well. However, to me the most important thing is that the punctuation remain consistent within the entire damned list at minimum, and throughout the entire presentation/document if possible.

When I was a proofreader, that was my priority. I don't think a single presentation I proofread was the slightest bit consistent, even when there was only one short bulleted list in the whole fucking presentation. Rather than imposing the same scheme every time (just try doing that as a lowly peon to a self-important, middle-management little fuckpuddle's PowerPoint and see how far you get), I usually picked whatever occurred most frequently. If 5 bullet points had periods and 2 didn't, I added periods to the rebellious bullet points, and vice-versa. This had the advantage of keeping the presentation from looking like crap, while rarely being noticed by the author.

[Watser?]

Yeah, consistency is more important than anything on this.

[JoeP]

+infinity for consistency.


A full stop if you are using complete sentences.

No punctuation at all if you are using incomplete sentences or simply listing items.



No disagreement there - when each item is a sentence in its own right (and especially if it's a multiple sentence paragraph), it should end with a full stop. And when items are just few words, punctuation becomes too heavy (and distracts from the meaning).

I'm more concerned about lists where each item is a continuation of a partial sentence above the list.

E.g. when
The administrator must ensure that threads are kept on topic.
The administrator must ensure that trolls are banned.
The administrator must ensure that the board has sufficient smilies.
becomes
The administrator must ensure that:

threads are kept on topic
trolls are banned
the board has sufficient smilies.

[viscousmemories]

I wouldn't put a full stop after "smilies" in your second example and I would falter when deciding whether to capitalize the list items.

[livius drusus]

The administrator must ensure that:

threads are kept on topic
trolls are banned
the board has sufficient smilies.

My solution would be to get rid of the first two bullet points and just make it one complete sentence.

[JoeP]

livius arrivius! Thanks, liv

[JoeP]

I wouldn't put a full stop after "smilies" in your second example and I would falter when deciding whether to capitalize the list items.

I'm moderately keen on a final full stop. It can definitely help readability when the list, and the items, are a bit longer.

Capitalisation is another fun debate.

[Demimonde]

BroMan's style is my rule of thumb. Typically I capitalize the beginings of sentences and phrases, or a list of proper nouns. Otherwise I don't bother. But I am anti-bullet personally.

[Sock Puppet]

But I am anti-bullet personally.Damned liberals.

[beyelzu]

But I am anti-bullet personally.Damned liberals.

Yeah, I bet she loves parentheses because they are like little hugs for the words between them.

[JoeP]

But I am anti-bullet personally.Damned liberals.

Yeah, I bet she loves parentheses because they are like little hugs for the words between them.

(lol)

[SharonDee]

Management doesn't argue with me but Word 2007 does. Like I'd take style advice from a Microsoft product! :hmph:

[BrotherMan]

(:lolhog:)

[godfry n. glad]

I was taught the "traditional" manner, as outlined in vm's insert...

As though it were a sentence, with listed items separated by commas and a full stop at the end.

But Brotherman's will do.

If each bulleted item were a complete sentence, then either full stops, or semi-colons each bulleted item until the last, with a full stop there, would be correct, IIRC.

I don't think too many people get agitated about this any more. Email and text messaging have degraded the expectations of readers.

Ask the New Yorker.



ETA: I never, never, never punctuate my grocery list!

[Ymir's blood]

Management doesn't argue with me but Word 2007 does. Like I'd take style advice from a Microsoft product! :hmph:

6401

[ChuckF]

The traditional method--still quite popular--simply keeps the punctuation the list would have if it were part of a normal paragraph. Here's a list that's part of a normal paragraph--it's not bulleted yet:
The order was late on April 15, late on April 16, and on time on April 17.
The traditional method would keep that same punctuation, pretending the list is still part of a regular sentence:
The order was:
late on April 15,
late on April 16, and
on time on April 17.


I does it likes this when it counts. When it's not important I just do whatever.

[Plant Woman]

A full stop if you are using complete sentences.


This is a complete sentence on a bulleted list.
This too is a complete sentence on a bulleted list.
Why are you reading this sentence?



No punctuation at all if you are using incomplete sentences or simply listing items.


Gallon of milk
Loaf of Bread
Stick of Butter



That's it in a nutshell.

ETA: I am looking it up in several of my books and get back with what they say.

[lisarea]

This is a thing that doesn't matter even a little bit, but if you care for some reason anyway, the Chicago manual says that you should treat each bulleted item that grammatically completes the sentence as the end of the sentence (but you capitalize it anyway for some reason that makes about as much sense as anything else, I suppose). Non-grammatically sentence things, not.

So,

We have seven stupid reasons for this, including:

*Feature one.
*Feature two.
*Feature three.

vs.

List of stupid things:

*Stupid thing 1
*Stupid thing 2
*Stupid thing 3

If you're using a different style manual, find out what that one says. If you're not using a specific style manual, make something up. It doesn't matter.

[Plant Woman]

In the Associated Press stylebook they say after enumerations use a period. Period.

Everything has changed so much that it is hard to keep up with acceptable usage. My copy editor always says, if you use one style stick with it. When I write for others I use the style they prefer, if I can discern which one.

[Doctor X]

There are a lot of colons in this thread.

--J.D.

[ceptimus]

But it looks horrible if some of the items have periods after them and some don't - whether they are complete sentences or not.

I think the best convention is just to invent a rule that says 'bullet list items don't require terminating punctuation'. It's just as (in)sensible as any other grammar rule, so why not?

[godfry n. glad]

From a 2003 ediction of The Chicago Manual of Style, 6.127-6.130...(pp. 272-275)

6.127

Vertical lists: punctuation and format. A vertical list is best introduced by a complete grammatical sentence, followed by a colon (but see 6.128). Items carry no closing punctuation unless they consist of complete sentences. If the items are numbered, a period follows the numeral and each item begins with a capital letter....Bullets (heavy dots, as in the fifth example below and elsewhere in this manual, e.g., 2.38) make good visual signposts in unnumbered list but can lose their force if used too frequently....

6.128

Vertical lists in paragraph style. When items in a numbered list consist of very long sentences, or of several sentences, and the list does not require typographic prominence, the items may be set in regular text stle as numbered paragraphs, wiht on the first line indented, punctuated as normal prose.

6.129

Vertical lists punctuated as a sentence. In a numbered vertical list that completes a sentence begun in an introductory element and consists of phrases or sentences with internal punctuation, semicolons may be used between the items, and a period should follow the final item. Each item begins with lowercase letters. Such lists, often better run into the text, should be set vertically only if the context demands that the be highlighted....

6.130

Vertical lists with subdivided items. Where items in a numbered list are subdivided, both numerals and letters may be used. Any runover lines should be aligned with the first word following the numeral....

[JoeP]

This is a thing that doesn't matter even a little bit,
...
It doesn't matter.

The truth doesn't matter. Winning matters.

[Pinecone]

After each item in a bulleted list, there should be:

an obvious way to sway the reader.

Take for instance this neutral list.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These are your options for dinner dear:

*BBQ Ribs
*Chicken & Bisquits
*Take Out Pizza
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This list implies all things are equal. BUT, the BBQ ribs - 3 or 4 hours prep, Chicken & Bisquits - ok, crock pot but still, Take Out Pizza - Now you're getting somewhere, especially if you can talk 'dear' into going to get it!

What should come after a bullet list is:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These are your options for dinner dear:

*BBQ Ribs :nojustno:
*Chicken & Bisquits :nope:
*Take Out Pizza :yup:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~