multiple usernames or sock puppets

[pescifish]

[This thread is in appreciation for :sadcheer: ]

Just curious...

Does this board have any policy or attitude about individuals signing up for more than one username/account? I know there is no stated rule against it, but I wondered if you have any strong feelings about it.

I can think of several scenarios in which a person might want to open a new account without sinister or malicious motives. I'm sure there are others I haven't listed here:
to discuss a really sensitive subject anonymously
to make a "fresh start" with the community
for personal IRL safety if a long standing account has been uncovered by family, friends or coworkers and the user wanted to continue under a new identity
For me, I considered it for the "fresh start" aspect of it. It was a last ditch thought; a possible option short of walking away totally. I wish very much that I could be a different person and interact the "right way" with this group of people. I thought if I came in with a new beginning and I was very disciplined about how I posted, I could build from a clean slate and find a way to make it work. I didn't get past "considering it" because I know I cannot change who I am, so it would never work.

But I did consider it and wondered if it would be ok with you guys and how you would want it handled. I knew I would not be able to do it without detection unless I went to the trouble of setting up a whole new ISP because I know vB gives you IP addresses. My attempt would be uncovered probably during registration. I considered perhaps a PM or email to both admins explaining the situation would make it a request and give you the option to refuse.

If it is allowed and it is assumed the admins have the ability to detect it, do you have a preference as to how a user should go about it?

I won't do such a thing simply because I know it will not solve my problem. But it could, if I were a different person who was capable of interacting with people differently from one venue to the next. Still, I am curious and hope you are willing to respond to this question publicly. Perhaps other users have comments and attitudes they wish to share as well.

[lisarea]

For me, I considered it for the "fresh start" aspect of it. It was a last ditch thought; a possible option short of walking away totally. I wish very much that I could be a different person and interact the "right way" with this group of people. I thought if I came in with a new beginning and I was very disciplined about how I posted, I could build from a clean slate and find a way to make it work. I didn't get past "considering it" because I know I cannot change who I am, so it would never work.

So, you say this sometimes, and I say "Hunh?"

Maybe it's just me. Maybe other people know what you're talking about, but for what it's worth, I have never ever thought you were even remotely jerklike.

In fact, it occurred to me that this was some kind of elaborate April Fools joke or something, but then I thought, "Nah. She'd never run the risk of offending someone like that" (which, of course, would make it all the more effective as a joke, so now I'm hedging...).

I just...seriously. Do you really think you're such a jerk? Because you're just so not, as near as I've ever noticed, anyway.

Just for what it's worth, and as far as I'm aware, and whatever. Because ME, now, I'm the spaz round here. Maybe you are the Total Nemesis of everyone else, but you're sunshine and rainbows in my book.

And I'm serious.

[Ensign Steve]

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

You are not alone in your "Hunh?" lisarea! I lurve pescifish. If she ever did try the sockpuppety thing, the jig would be up in a hurry because I'd fall in love with her all over again and demand that she join me for Mexican brunch and binge-drinking in Las Vegas. Then I'd meet her in person and be like, "You can't fool me! I recognize you from that other time!! HAHAHA!" Then I could blackmail her, but I wouldn't because that would be uncool.

It would be cool if it really was an elaborate April fool's joke. Very clever and sneaky!

Back in my olden days of virtual socialization (I just made that up), I had more than one persona that I would use. Also not for nefarious purposes, but just for convenience, mood swings, and just plain fun. I don't do it anymore, though, because I don't know why.

Maybe she has nemises, but I don't consider myself among them. Then again, I'm not huge on II, and that is where she was the Admin. Admins always get shit on.

[LadyShea]

I dunno what you're talking about either Pesci. I so wouldn't like you if you weren't who you are....because I like you as yourself. Or something.

At any rate, I like you and I see no reason why you would even consider coming on as someone other than you.

[godfry n. glad]

I won't do such a thing simply because I know it will not solve my problem. But it could, if I were a different person who was capable of interacting with people differently from one venue to the next. Still, I am curious and hope you are willing to respond to this question publicly. Perhaps other users have comments and attitudes they wish to share as well.

Umm... I can only think that you are posing a "hypothetical question" for a mutual acquaintance, and I've decided against it. :heckled:

Seriously, though... If one has not been banned, then what difference would it make? I don't think anyone has violated the "rules" (such as they are) here enough to justify treatment that would deem it necessary to identify those attempting to create a sockpuppet.

[beyelzu's sockpuppet]

I dont really understand why anyone would want to have a sockpuppet.


and in my interactions, not that I beyelzu's sockpuppet have had any, with pescifish I do not understand why she would dislike how she is viewed by this community. maybe I should read her posts.

[Ensign Steve]

I like your hat.

[Dingfod]

pesci's got a hat?

[Crumb]

Hmm, I'm guessing pesci posted this under the wrong name. :wink:

[pescifish]

Oh dear. I really had posted this in this forum (not Watering Hole or Lifestyle) because I was interested in how livius and vm would respond to the hypothetical. But I guess this thread can join the ranks of my others as a possibly ok idea, but poorly executed!

I'm still hoping vm and livius will come along shortly and give their $.02 and I am interested in anyone's general comments about sock puppets. I especially appreciate the response from one in the turgid flesh and dapper cap of beyelzu's sock puppet! :tiphat:

I added that personal paragraph simply to explain why I have the question, not really as as a point of discussion. However, I really do appreciate the comments from you guys saying I'm "OK in your book" because I have recently had two situations on multiple bulletin boards that have flattened me. The support is greatly appreciated! My months-old hypothetical sock puppet idea simply bubbled back up while I was trying to work through my obvious incompetence in those situations. :examine:
I just...seriously. Do you really think you're such a jerk? Because you're just so not, as near as I've ever noticed, anyway.Heh! No, I don't think I've been a jerk. But, perhaps with a clean slate I could aspire to become one; a really smartass fun and super-cool one! :groucho:

To stave off discussion of my personal angst: no, really, it's just a matter of me not having the right skills to be effective in a social group, something that is true for me IRL as well as online. In my (rejected) sock puppet fantasy, I imagine I would lighten up and stay the f*ck out of those things that matter to me but I am too incompetent to handle without being squashed like a bug. During my initial problems with the retinal disease, I couldn't handle being myself, yet I didn't want to miss out on this group I enjoy.

But, for the kind comments :hugs: thank you very much.:fishie:

p.s. livius, vm :tigger2: yooohooo...? :wave:

[Ex-zombie]

Nevermind.

[beyelzu]

one thing to consider about reinvention of yourself. you throw out the good and the bad. the upside: you can be a whole new you the downside: the whole new you wont have the relationship with people here that the old you had.

[John Carter]

/me looks around, wonders where liv and vm are.

[Ensign Steve]

Oh dear. I really had posted this in this forum (not Watering Hole or Lifestyle) because I was interested in how livius and vm would respond to the hypothetical. But I guess this thread can join the ranks of my others as a possibly ok idea, but poorly executed!

no no no no no! I knew you were asking the admins (I mean, duh, look at what forum you're in) but since when do any of us ever keep our opinions to ourselves? :giggle:

I added that personal paragraph simply to explain why I have the question, not really as as a point of discussion.

I could totally tell you weren't fishing for compliments (pardon the pun). All the more reason you deserve to be lavished with them!

:jd:

[livius drusus]

I apologize for the delay in response, pesci.


Does this board have any policy or attitude about individuals signing up for more than one username/account? I know there is no stated rule against it, but I wondered if you have any strong feelings about it.

As you noted (and bey illustrated with such characteristic insouciance), there is no prohibition at all on having multiple username accounts. I personally have no strong feelings about it unless it is intended to intentionally misrepresent and deceive.

(An example of this I encountered on another forum, where a regular of longstanding created a sock who made a point of grinding ancient axes and nurturing grudges under the guise of dewey-eyed innocent gee whiz I'm new here "outsider observations".)

I can think of several scenarios in which a person might want to open a new account without sinister or malicious motives. I'm sure there are others I haven't listed here:
to discuss a really sensitive subject anonymously
to make a "fresh start" with the community
for personal IRL safety if a long standing account has been uncovered by family, friends or coworkers and the user wanted to continue under a new identity

These all seem perfectly reasonable to me. I'd add for fun as another non-sinister motive. In fact, I considered creating one this morning to play the April Fool, but I couldn't think of anything funny.

/me is kinda lame.

For me, I considered it for the "fresh start" aspect of it. It was a last ditch thought; a possible option short of walking away totally. I wish very much that I could be a different person and interact the "right way" with this group of people. I thought if I came in with a new beginning and I was very disciplined about how I posted, I could build from a clean slate and find a way to make it work. I didn't get past "considering it" because I know I cannot change who I am, so it would never work.

I understand and I think like you, I'd have a hard time disguising myself. The whole thesaurus thing would hobble me, for one thing.

But I did consider it and wondered if it would be ok with you guys and how you would want it handled. I knew I would not be able to do it without detection unless I went to the trouble of setting up a whole new ISP because I know vB gives you IP addresses. My attempt would be uncovered probably during registration. I considered perhaps a PM or email to both admins explaining the situation would make it a request and give you the option to refuse.

Yes, it's likely that unless you made a concerted effort to anonymize your IP or used a very popular one we'd notice upon registration. Even if you used a standard web proxy we'd notice as soon as you posted on account of our nifty proxy detector hack (high anonymizers are unpenetrable, however).

I don't think either vm or myself would refuse any such request. I would personally like to be told, but in the same way that any of the people who have posted their support for you would want to know you were okay and around, not in some official capacity.


If it is allowed and it is assumed the admins have the ability to detect it, do you have a preference as to how a user should go about it?

It is allowed, and assuming their is no deceptive intent, my personal preference would be for you to tell me privately that you've decided you need a fresh start. I would obviously respect your privacy on the open board, but this confidence would untie my hands so I could still approach pesci via PM.

Does that answer everything? I'm a little befuddled tonight (hence the whole taking ages to write this thing) so if there's anything I've overlooked, please let me know.

[beyelzu]

Nevermind.
its a shame you edited your post. I thought it made a lot of sense, and I damn sure empathize with alot of your feelings.

[livius drusus]

I second that emotion.

[Beth]

I'm sorry that you feel that you need a fresh start, but I can empathise. I have considerred starting new id's that way no one knows about me and may have biases about me from posts. I often like seeing things you write and have respect for you and think you are very intelligent. I like you and hope if you did make a sock puppet, that Pesci would not dissapear altogether. :)

[viscousmemories]

Does this board have any policy or attitude about individuals signing up for more than one username/account? I know there is no stated rule against it, but I wondered if you have any strong feelings about it.
Well as usual liv already did a great job of articulating our ‘official’ opinion on the matter, but I’ll kick in my own personal opinion in case you or anyone else is interested…

I can think of several scenarios in which a person might want to open a new account without sinister or malicious motives. I'm sure there are others I haven't listed here:
I think the only problem with this argument is that there’s an underlying assumption that only sockpuppets created with sinister or malicious motives are potentially harmful or offensive. In other words I think it’s entirely possible for someone to create a sockpuppet with the purest of intentions, yet still have a negative impact on others. That said, I don’t personally think sockpuppets serve any useful purpose besides amusement.

[…]to discuss a really sensitive subject anonymously.
I don’t see it as particularly healthy or productive for people to discuss really sensitive subjects with a bunch of strangers on a public discussion board.

to make a "fresh start" with the community
I honestly don’t understand that rationale. If you make a “fresh start” acting exactly the way you did when you were “being yourself” (assuming you ever were) then you will probably have exactly the same results you had as yourself. However if you make a “fresh start” pretending to be someone you’re not, that’s not a “fresh start”, it’s acting. In a role-playing game that makes sense to me. On a discussion forum it doesn’t. I’m aware that not everyone feels the same way, though. For many people everything that happens online is clearly segregated from their “real life”. That’s just not my personal preference.

Also, I think there is something fundamentally deceptive about it whether or not that was the individual’s intention. When you post on a board for any length of time, people get to know a little about you and you get to know a little about them. When you change your name and style and don’t tell anyone, others are at an automatic disadvantage in any interaction. It’s like getting plastic surgery and a name change, then going to hang out at your old haunts and trying to work your way back into the social group with the advantage of knowing everyone else’s quirks and foibles while nobody knows yours.

for personal IRL safety if a long standing account has been uncovered by family, friends or coworkers and the user wanted to continue under a new identity
I have two problems with that idea. First, I’ll reiterate that I think the best way to avoid that scenario is to abstain from divulging deeply personal information on a public forum. But assuming the deed has already been done, how could you expect to shed your name and posting history without alienating everyone you’ve come to know while posting on that board and refraining from divulging anything of a personally identifying nature from that point on? And if you had to do all that, what would be the point?

For me, I considered it for the "fresh start" aspect of it. It was a last ditch thought; a possible option short of walking away totally. I wish very much that I could be a different person and interact the "right way" with this group of people. I thought if I came in with a new beginning and I was very disciplined about how I posted, I could build from a clean slate and find a way to make it work. I didn't get past "considering it" because I know I cannot change who I am, so it would never work.
This is pretty much what I meant, with the caveat that I don’t personally think there is now or has ever been anything wrong with the way you interact on this or any board.

But I did consider it and wondered if it would be ok with you guys and how you would want it handled. I knew I would not be able to do it without detection unless I went to the trouble of setting up a whole new ISP because I know vB gives you IP addresses. My attempt would be uncovered probably during registration. I considered perhaps a PM or email to both admins explaining the situation would make it a request and give you the option to refuse.

If it is allowed and it is assumed the admins have the ability to detect it, do you have a preference as to how a user should go about it?
Again, liv already explained our ‘official’ opinion on that. There is no requirement to inform us (since we’ll probably know anyway) and I don’t think we have any need to know unless you were previously banned. As for my personal preference, it would be for people to stick with one ‘persona’ (preferably their own) everywhere they interact with other people in a non-role playing capacity.

I won't do such a thing simply because I know it will not solve my problem. But it could, if I were a different person who was capable of interacting with people differently from one venue to the next.
I don’t think it’s just you. As I said I haven’t noticed any deficiencies in how you interact with people on these boards, but I really don’t think it solves anyone’s problems. People who are disliked for things they post as “themselves” aren’t going to be any more popular using a different name unless they stop posting as themselves. Didn’t everyone see some variation on the Cyrano De Bergerac story? Pretending to be someone you’re not always ends in failure, either for yourself or for the people who invested in you. Yeah I know it’s just a play, but I really do happen to agree with the moral of the story.

Still, I am curious and hope you are willing to respond to this question publicly. Perhaps other users have comments and attitudes they wish to share as well.
Put my two cents with the others and maybe you can get a gumball. :)

[pescifish]

Does that answer everything? I'm a little befuddled tonight (hence the whole taking ages to write this thing) so if there's anything I've overlooked, please let me know.Yes! Your answer covers all the bits perfectly.

Both your reply and viscousmemories' have answered all my technical and personal opinion questions. I am glad to know that my instinct was correct in thinking that a PM explaination would be the "FYI" courtesy you might appreciate.

vm, in my repeated consideration of the whole "fresh start" idea, I have always hit many of the same issues that you point out: it's not a fresh start unless I could be a different person
only a good actor can really embrace another persona
it is not fair to anyone (myself included) to not interact in an honest manner, even if none of my intentions or actions were malicious
my personal preference/reality is that there is no segregation between online and off in terms of how I interact with the world
Beyelzu's comments about up and down sides fall in line with my conclusions. And one thing vm pointed out that I got close to in my thinking but never put my finger on was well stated here: Also, I think there is something fundamentally deceptive about it whether or not that was the individual’s intention. When you post on a board for any length of time, people get to know a little about you and you get to know a little about them. When you change your name and style and don’t tell anyone, others are at an automatic disadvantage in any interaction. It’s like getting plastic surgery and a name change, then going to hang out at your old haunts and trying to work your way back into the social group with the advantage of knowing everyone else’s quirks and foibles while nobody knows yours.

As lisarea suggests, I'm not really the goof-off April's Fool's practical joke type, so I doubt I could even pull off a good sock puppet for amusement, though I enjoyed a few that were well done and hilarious (and not at all a deception, such as bey's beer-hatting buddy!)

The bottom line is, I yam what I yam. :turnip:
As with offline, if I think I need a change in my online existence, I'm gonna just have to knuckle down and make it. My other options are to accept my basic nature and the actions that result. If I do that, then the hope is that I stop "suffering" the consequences and learn to accept them!

[pescifish]

Nevermind.
its a shame you edited your post. I thought it made a lot of sense, and I damn sure empathize with alot of your feelings.Ditto for me (or is that tritto, since livius seconded?)

When I read your post, I thought "YES! Ex-zombie understands!" and I can fully sympathize with many of points you brought up and empathize with the rest.

Of course, after all that sensitive stuff, I went straight on to thinking what a next generation Ex-zombie would be. I mean, an actual zombie is already a bit "warmed over", so to speak. Your current state of ex-zombie-ness is sorta triple baked already. Would a sock puppet of an ex-zombie even have corporeal existence?! :otis:

:brains: :wmummy:

[pescifish]

I'm sorry that you feel that you need a fresh start, but I can empathise. I have considerred starting new id's that way no one knows about me and may have biases about me from posts. I often like seeing things you write and have respect for you and think you are very intelligent. I like you and hope if you did make a sock puppet, that Pesci would not dissapear altogether. :)Thank you for your kind comments, Beth. Yeah, no chance of that, my pesci-ness tends to bleed through even the toughest layers.

[viscousmemories]

vm, in my repeated consideration of the whole "fresh start" idea, I have always hit many of the same issues that you point out:
For what it's worth I've considered the whole fresh start angle myself. Believe it or not I have a reputation on some forums of being kind of an asshole, to the extent that various people (even forum admins!) have told me point blank that they won't even participate in any thread I post in. So I have definitely considered trying on a new username in cases like that. But in the end it just isn't worth it to me. If I'm uncomfortable being myself anywhere I just generally avoid the place.

And another thing I neglected to mention in my previous post is that when someone I've been interacting with over a significant period of time suddenly stops coming around, I have any number of reactions from wondering what happened to them and hoping they're alright to missing having them around. So it's (naturally, I think) insulting when I come to find out that they never really left at all, they just had plastic surgery and a name change and have been pretending we never met. It's kind of a big "fuck you", in my opinion.

My bottom line is that my reputation (online and off) is as much a part of me as any other aspect of who I am. I know there are people who will always see me as I was at 18, or 24, or 30... despite the fact that I've learned and changed a lot over the years. But I know who I am and what I'm about, and there's no way I'm going to be pretending to be someone else because some other people don't like me. Especially since some of the qualities people hate me for are qualities I've been praised a lot for.

Okay now I'm starting to sound way too much like Stuart Smalley*. Someone shoot me.

"I am fun to be with. Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and doggone it, people like me. Well, not everybody. But that's their problem. And your problem. Okay, I'm sorry, this is not my best show."

[viscousmemories]

Oh yeah, and I want to go on record as not having had a chance to see Ex-zombie's post, which pisses me off to no end. It has become nearly legendary in this thread.

[JoeP]

* livius drusus is kinda lame.
Nonsense, you have hunted down and created smilies, even (soon) :lame:, and built a great
... erm, you were fishing for compliments here weren't you?

[JoeP]

The bottom line is, I yam what I yam. :turnip:
That's a real turnip for the books.

Everyone else has already said it, at greater length and sounding more sincere than I could, but to the original post: :wtf: ? I see no need for you to create a new online persona to hide or erode the old one. It's done just fine as its fishy self.

[JoeP]

Oh yeah, and I want to go on record as not having had a chance to see Ex-zombie's post, which pisses me off to no end. It has become nearly legendary in this thread.
A legend in its own lunchtime. Who said that?

[John Carter]

I've been debating making this post almost from the day pescifish started this thread. I admit it. This username is what some might call a sock puppet. I had no malicious intent, nor have I made any attempt to disguise my posting style; I am what I am, and have never tried to be someone I'm not. I am quite sure that anyone who knows me and has been paying attention has long since figured out who I was in my previous incarnation here. The clues are numerous.

I initially stopped coming to FF for personal reasons: I felt that I was alienating people, even those I like, left and right and the rate at which it was happening was accelerating. So I left. But I couldn't stay away. At first, I just lurked, and didn't log in. But I soon found it is much easier to navigate the site while logged in, so I decided to register a sock puppet for that purpose. Please don't ask me why I felt that was necessary; I wasn't thinking very clearly at the time. As an aside, I knew from the beginning that liv and vm would know exactly who I was.

It wasn't long before the urge to post again became unbearable, and I immediately discovered that I felt a certain freedom in being able to post without all of the baggage from the past. And there is a shitload of baggage I'd just as soon leave behind. If I have offended anyone by my actions, I apologize, such was never my intention.

I do request that those of you who have figured it out keep it to yourself publicly.

[godfry n. glad]

Oh yeah, and I want to go on record as not having had a chance to see Ex-zombie's post, which pisses me off to no end. It has become nearly legendary in this thread.
A legend in its own lunchtime. Who said that?

Sounds very Bart Simpson. Or, perhaps South Park?

[JoeP]

I think it goes back much further than the Simpsons or South Park. My googling turned up only quotes of the phrase, not anything on its origin.

[beyelzu]

I've been debating making this post almost from the day pescifish started this thread. I admit it. This username is what some might call a sock puppet. I had no malicious intent, nor have I made any attempt to disguise my posting style; I am what I am, and have never tried to be someone I'm not. I am quite sure that anyone who knows me and has been paying attention has long since figured out who I was in my previous incarnation here. The clues are numerous.

I initially stopped coming to FF for personal reasons: I felt that I was alienating people, even those I like, left and right and the rate at which it was happening was accelerating. So I left. But I couldn't stay away. At first, I just lurked, and didn't log in. But I soon found it is much easier to navigate the site while logged in, so I decided to register a sock puppet for that purpose. Please don't ask me why I felt that was necessary; I wasn't thinking very clearly at the time. As an aside, I knew from the beginning that liv and vm would know exactly who I was.

It wasn't long before the urge to post again became unbearable, and I immediately discovered that I felt a certain freedom in being able to post without all of the baggage from the past. And there is a shitload of baggage I'd just as soon leave behind. If I have offended anyone by my actions, I apologize, such was never my intention.

I do request that those of you who have figured it out keep it to yourself publicly.


I have a theory, but regardless, if it was my assholery that helped make you go away I apologize.


if I am right, I am not offended at all.

[livius drusus]

Thank you for telling your story, John Carter. Not that you need to know this 'cause we've talked about it privately, but just for the record I have no problem with the choice you've made. Adding bey's caveat that I apologize if my assholery contributed to your unhappiness, you and I are totally cool. :thumbup:

[viscousmemories]

It wasn't long before the urge to post again became unbearable, and I immediately discovered that I felt a certain freedom in being able to post without all of the baggage from the past. And there is a shitload of baggage I'd just as soon leave behind. If I have offended anyone by my actions, I apologize, such was never my intention.

I do request that those of you who have figured it out keep it to yourself publicly.
I was offended, but I'm over it. Thanks for the apology anyway, and I'm genuinely glad you're more comfortable here now. :wave:

[John Carter]

Bey, liv, I hope I didn't give the wrong impression here. It wasn't anyone else's "assholery" that caused me to leave. It was me. I didn't think I was being an asshole. When you piss off one person, it's their problem, but when you seem to be getting on everyone's bad side, it's time to take a closer look at yourself. Or so what was passing for thought processes for me at the time went.

vm, let me apologize again. It didn't occur to me that people might get offended. But then again, I wasn't really thinking at all.

[pescifish]

Well, John Carter, I like you from your posts now, whoever you are. I'm guessing I liked you in your previous incarnation because the sorts of things I like about your posts aren't easy to playact. I'm glad you are back, in whatever form. :yup:

[lisarea]

Yay! I'm not the only clueless one here. I don't know who you were, either.

All the same: Welcome back, Kotter.


Welcome back to the same old place that we laughed about
Well the names have all changed since you hung around
But those dreams have remained and they've turned around
Who'd have thought they'd lead ya
Back here where we need ya?