What or who is your higher power respectively

[teasasue]

I was thinking with all the different back grounds and different parts of the world every one is from this might make a good topic.

I know that how we are raised is a big determining factor on how and what we believe or dont believe.

I thought it would be interesting to see were everyone on here is at with their, if they have one, a higher power. If its the Christian God, or some other deity.

I know there are several different religions out there and some people, I am sure dont even really consider what they believe to be a religion. I was raised as a Southern Baptist, how every I do not practice that. I have tried a few different denominations but have yet to really find one that fits. So I am non denominational.

If you worship a god or goddess or if you worship one of each, I will ask that you please list which one or ones and put were the come from, like example Greek Mythology. Also put what they represent like love, strength, and so on.

Also if you dont mind put the country you also reside in like I reside in the USA, I think that will be cool to see were the different religions are at.

[erimir]

US, atheist or agnostic, depending on how you define the terms. I believe that the Jewish/Christian/Muslim God does not exist, and generally that the gods of revealed religions don't exist.

I don't recognize any higher power in a spiritual sense. That doesn't mean there definitely isn't one, but it does mean that I haven't encountered any good reason to believe in one.

[Deadlokd]

I'm an atheist from Australia. I find the Universe, Earth and life wondrous enough without seeking a supernatural explanation. For example, did you know that you have proton pumps in most of your cells that use oxygen in a complex series of reactions to produce H+ ions which turn a pump to make a molecule called Adenosine Triphosphate? ATP is used all over your body as an energy source. If you sever one of the phosphate groups you release 7.6 × 10-23 kJ of energy. That doesn't sound like much but you have ten to twenty million of these reactions happening in your body every second powering everything from the movement of your eyes as you read this to the motility of your small intestine as you digest your last meal. Your whole life is a series of controlled chemical reactions and I find that fascinating.

We are here by random mutation, chance if you will, winnowed by natural selection. There is no point, no lofty goal, except that we set ourselves and to me that means to generally try to be a good person. A task I fail at occasionally.

ETA: I was raised a Roman Catholic and born in the Republic of Ireland. That had a lot to do with me becoming an atheist.

[LadyShea]

US, atheist

Raised secularly with a couple years of liberal Christianity, then New Age flavored Deism/Pantheism, then agnostic, finally gave up trying to believe because it's just not in me

[Leesifer]

England - Atheist. Raised secularly. Had compulsory Religious Education lessons in school but they were never taken seriously by any of us.

Became interested in the Bible when my Aunt gave me a children's illustrated bible - I loved the pictures and the stories. It didn't make me believe in god and, to be honest, when I read the stories, it didn't occur to me that I should.

However, I do take an interest in religion because I actually find it interesting. The origins and how the beliefs have changed through time.

Hope this is the sort of thing you wanted, teasasue.

[ChuckF]

For a long time I self-identified as an atheist, and while I don't use that term very often any more, it is probably the best informational shortcut to define my beliefs. I do not believe that there exist any gods, creators, deities, demigods, or otherwise divine beings. I do not believe in the supernatural or any manner of existence beyond the physical plane. I do not believe these things because I find no compelling evidence to support the contention that they exist.

I do not believe that human consciousness survives human life. I believe that death, unless reversed or forestalled by human (or, I suppose, non-human) intervention, is permanent and terminal. I do not believe that human life has any purpose except for those purposes assigned to it by humanity. I believe that humanity defines what is good and what is evil, and that these definitions can and do change with time and circumstance. I do not believe that humanity's place in the universe is in any way privileged, special, or unique, and I have no present reason to believe that it has been remarked upon by any intelligence other than our own. I believe that the universe, including humanity, arose through a series of events that may be discovered or modeled scientifically as part of a rational model of the universe. This model is not yet complete, and may never be completed. Humanity will end. The universe may or may not end.

I do not recognize the spiritual authority of any human (or non-human, for that matter) claiming to know of or to speak for any divine process or being. I am particularly suspicious of any person or persons claiming a direct, personal knowledge of some divine being, or such knowledge of processes attributed to that being, i.e. the creation of the world by an intelligent creator, or the intervention of a god in human affairs. I believe that religion is a human construct, and is, like other human constructs, a worthy subject of rational inquiry. Inquiry into human religion will reveal information about humans. Religious institutions are frequently destructive and divisive. Many religions espouse beliefs and/or encourage practices that conflict sharply with my personal concept of morality. I believe that religion is a source of comfort to many and a source of suffering to many.

I was not raised in any church, and religious practice is entirely absent from my immediate family. I could characterize the attitude towards religion present in my household when I was a child as irreverent, bordering on derisive.

[teasasue]

Hope this is the sort of thing you wanted, teasasue.

yes it is and thank you all for posting, I find it interesting to see other peoples back grounds and things. It helps you see why and how some think and feel they way they do.

[teasasue]

There is no point, no lofty goal, except that we set ourselves and to me that means to generally try to be a good person. A task I fail at occasionally.

ETA: I was raised a Roman Catholic and born in the Republic of Ireland. That had a lot to do with me becoming an atheist.



I think most everyone strives to be a good person on a normal basis, and we all fail at times, some more so than others, I think on most days I could probably try harder.


I want to ask but I think it may be rude so if it is tell me and you dont have to answer, but what happened to turn you to an Atheist from a Roman Catholic.

I had a friend that was a Catholic and she went to the Catholic school and tried to teach me some of their practices, it was pretty interesting most of it. some of it like normal Christians, for lack of a better word.


And yes I agree the way the human body works is truly amazing.

[ITSOZAZ]

God.

[Shelli]

What or who is your higher power respectively:tigger:

With sub-deities: :pooh: :eeyore: :piglet: :rabbit: :owl2: :kanga: :roo: :gopher: :kessie: & :lumpy: (my greatest apologies if I've forgotten any :beg:)



100% atheist :springfieldma::unitedstates:

[BracesForImpact]

Hi, my name is Ron, and I'm an atheist. (Why does this feel like an AA meeting?)

I was raised Christian Reformed, which is kinda like fundamentalist lite, and as I got older I embraced non-denominational, liberal Christianity. As I aged further still, I discovered the Internet around 1998 or so, which was instrumental in my discovery and adoption of critical thinking.

Once I accepted critical thought as the best tool to use to discovery reality, I had to admit that the evidence I thought I saw for God and the supernatural was insufficient to warrant it's existence. This was not something I wanted or planned for, it was just a logical conclusion of my acceptance of that way of thinking.

Once I was over a somewhat difficult transition, I felt liberated, and I still do. We live in a natural world of wonder and awe. A universe with rules that permit the existence of molecular machines like ourselves. How wonderful and exciting is that?

[beyelzu]

England - Atheist. Raised secularly. Had compulsory Religious Education lessons in school but they were never taken seriously by any of us.

Became interested in the Bible when my Aunt gave me a children's illustrated bible - I loved the pictures and the stories. It didn't make me believe in god and, to be honest, when I read the stories, it didn't occur to me that I should.

However, I do take an interest in religion because I actually find it interesting. The origins and how the beliefs have changed through time.

Hope this is the sort of thing you wanted, teasasue.

I heartily agree with how interesting religion is, which is why I am minoring in religion at university.

[ChuckF]

With sub-deities: :pooh:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/ChuckF/pooinfidel.jpg

[teasasue]

US, atheist

Raised secularly with a couple years of liberal Christianity, then New Age flavored Deism/Pantheism, then agnostic, finally gave up trying to believe because it's just not in me

all I am going to say is wow, I looked up Deism and Pantheism and can understand why you gave up, those are kind of confusing and it looks like there is still some controversy over how they actually worked. I checked a couple of sites on that and there was 1 that seemed to know and be able to answer how they work, they are like on either side of the spectrum, everything is god and the other is god made the earth basically then nothing after that and its pointless to worship, was my feeling on it. I could be wrong because like I said I have never studied or practiced those myself and the internet is now always a reliable source to find information for certain topics.

[Shelli]

With sub-deities: :pooh:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/ChuckF/pooinfidel.jpg:lol:

[wei yau]

The only higher power I submit myself before is my wife.

I guess I'm an atheist? I mean, I don't believe in God. Don't believe in the supernatural. But, also, I don't really care about it all that much. It's just simply not important to me in my life.

Oh and I'm in the US.

[Deadlokd]

I don't mind answering at all. It's one of my favourite subjects. :tmgrin:

Where to start. It's a few things. First, a bit of background. Where and when I was growing up "Protestant" was a dirty word. With a billion Catholics in the world I grew up believing that The Church was the true instrument of Jesus Christ. We left Ireland in 1983, leaving a country torn apart by religion, parochialism and hatred. My adopted parents, my two adopted sisters and myself flew halfway around the world and settled in sunny Australia. I left behind the mother I had never met. The woman who was left alone by my father after she told him she was pregnant and according to the traditions of the day, spent the last few months of her pregnancy in a Mothers and Babies Home in Dublin, on the other side of the country from her home. There, two weeks after I was born, the Sisters of Mercy took me from her arms and gave me to a respectable, middle class family. So, the first nail in the coffin was what religion had done to me and my country.

I always found Mass boring and a waste of a perfectly good Sunday morning. The priests were tedious, the service repetitious and the songs droning. So I tried to find some meaning in my religion. I read the Bible start to finish, Genesis to Revelation. What I found were contradictions, genocide, bigotry, a selfish and petty god and absolutely nothing that affirmed my faith. What I did have was a growing disbelief in this god fella. The gods mentioned in the Old Testament didn't seem to have much in common with the god described by Jesus. So then I went to my Parish Priest.

Father Brannigan was a crotchety cunt. He couldn't answer my questions and his final piece of advice was that I needed faith. No shit Father, that's why I'm here. That was pretty much it. The end of belief.

Everything I have learned since then has reinforced my suspicion that there is no god. And the more I look into it the more I discover the hand of man in every decision made in establishing the Christian faith.

I just did a subject at uni called Religious Traditions and Rituals which gave me an opportunity to investigate the early church and the main players back then and how they have affected the church today. And people today. There was a systematic campaign to disenfranchise women in the first century after Jesus died, a campaign which still affects you today. Christianity has done women no favours. Or homosexuals, or people from other faiths (until recently anyway).

[teasasue]

I can understand most of what you said but I have a small question on 2 of the things you said, I dont think I understood them completely. If you would help me that would be great thank you.



I believe that death, unless reversed or forestalled by human (or, I suppose, non-human) intervention, is permanent and terminal.

What are you refering to as non human in this one?


I was not raised in any church, and religious practice is entirely absent from my immediate family. I could characterize the attitude towards religion present in my household when I was a child as irreverent, bordering on derisive.


Why do you think that since your family didnt practice any form of religion that that didnt have an effect on how you decided not to have a religion or believe an anything.

I truly believe if I was not raised with a Christian family my believes would not be what they are.

[erimir]

Oh yeah... if you want background information...

I was raised in a culturally Christian household (i.e. we celebrate Christmas and Easter), but with non-religious parents. We never attended church. I was baptized for my grandmother's benefit. I think in a Catholic church, I'm not completely sure.

As a young child, my parents just didn't talk about religion much, probably because in the northern suburb and circle of friends my parents were in, there wasn't much reason for them to. So I didn't really know all that much about it or think about it, and I generally assumed I was a Christian, you know, that I believed the things that Christians believed. I heard the Christmas songs and the Raffi songs ("he's got the whole world, in his hands"), but they were just kinda there, and I think if someone had asked me to think about it, I would've said that I didn't believe in it. But nobody did.

I just mean, I didn't grow up thinking of myself as not a Christian, as an atheist, etc. even though I now do think of myself as those things, even though I never really knew what Christianity was about during my early years.

When we moved to NC, that changed. My father's derisive attitude towards religion became apparent as there were more reasons to talk about it, as we were interacting with a lot more religious people. My mother's attitude is a bit nicer, in that she thinks that religion can be a good thing, but that a lot of religious groups make into a bad thing (read: fundamentalists, homophobic or sexist religious sects, etc.).

When I discovered what Christian belief generally entails and did engage the ideas contained, I rejected them pretty much then and there. It took me a while longer to reject the notions of a soul and an afterlife, those finally biting the dust completely during my intro philosophy course in college.

My reasons for not believing in Christianity (and Judaism, and Islam) are independent of me being gay, but I will say that part of the reason I have such a distaste for them is because of their homophobia and sexism and so forth. I think that Wicca, for example, is just about as silly as Christianity is - there isn't any more reason to believe in it - but it doesn't bother me as much because it doesn't seem to also advocate moral beliefs that I find detestable.

And even if you're a liberal Christian, you're still holding up a sexist, almost certainly homophobic (I'm not sure whether the gay-friendly interpretations of scripture really hold up) book as sacred. You're just ignoring those parts. Or claiming that they don't apply anymore. Which just means that you believe God (who is unchanging) used to advocate sexist, homophobic things for ancient goatherders, but now he doesn't. And that seems like a very strange position to me.

Basically, as long as you're holding that book sacred, it leaves open the possibility of going back and reviving those parts, or of your kids (if you have some, and raise them as Christians) being riper targets for being converted to varieties of Christianity that are sexist and homophobic. But don't get me wrong, I do definitely have a more positive attitude towards liberal Christians.

[teasasue]

Hi, my name is Ron, and I'm an atheist. (Why does this feel like an AA meeting?)


probably because I used the words "higher power" sorry for choosing those words :)

[teasasue]

The only higher power I submit myself before is my wife.




:lol: the wife is a good higher power to have

[ChuckF]

I can understand most of what you said but I have a small question on 2 of the things you said, I dont think I understood them completely. If you would help me that would be great thank you.


I believe that death, unless reversed or forestalled by human (or, I suppose, non-human) intervention, is permanent and terminal.

What are you refering to as non human in this one?
Nothing really, merely speculating on the possible existence of non-human intelligence somewhere in the universe. Our present level of scientific knowledge and practice is sufficient to forestall and (occasionally) reverse death. There could well be other beings in the universe capable of the same thing. That is not to say that such hypothetical beings would be divine, merely that they would be non-human.
I was not raised in any church, and religious practice is entirely absent from my immediate family. I could characterize the attitude towards religion present in my household when I was a child as irreverent, bordering on derisive.
Why do you think that since your family didnt practice any form of religion that that didnt have an effect on how you decided not to have a religion or believe an anything.

Nothing in what I wrote indicates that I reject the possibility that my immediate family's beliefs on religion did not condition, or have some formative effect on, my present beliefs about religion. Your question, such as it is, is inapposite.

[teasasue]

I don't mind answering at all. It's one of my favourite subjects. :tmgrin:




Sorry I was not going to quote the whole thing but I wanted to thank you for explaining and I can understand a lot as to why you decided to not believe in a god.

[ceptimus]

:tigger:

With sub-deities: :pooh: :eeyore: :piglet: :rabbit: :owl2: :kanga: :roo: :gopher: :kessie: & :lumpy: (my greatest apologies if I've forgotten any :beg:)


Lottie the otter!

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Oct/Week1/15397189.jpg

[Adam]

US. Raised Catholic. Went through a period of unaffiliated pseudo-Christianity as a teenager. Currently agnostic and/or atheist, depending on how you define your terms. I agree with nearly everything Chuck said.

[Dingfod]

Ranking, though not all-inclusive:
The Laws of Physics
Gravity, it's always keeping me down
Government (Federal, State, County, Local)
Police Forces
My Supervisor
Wife
Me

[wildernesse]

US, I am an agnostic theist who believes and practices Christianity. I am a member of the United Methodist Church. I do not think that people can prove through the usual means of discovering facts the existence of God, or the truth claims of my beliefs--I think those things are outside our factual knowledge, which is why I say I am an agnostic. I don't think you can solve an equation and end up with God. :poof: But I still find great value in believing in the Christian God and the redemption offered there, and in seeing the world through those eyes.

ETA: I was raised by Christian parents in the Church of God, which is a conservative Pentacostal denom. My grandfather and uncle are preachers, and religion was an important part of my daily life growing up.

[Gonzo]

I know that how we are raised is a big determining factor on how and what we believe or dont believe.


Not true. I am practitioner of Pure Vision (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=782688&postcount=458) as well as a graduate of The Pure Vision Institute of Higher Learning having received honor scholarships in all fields of Unearthly Universal Ultraintraspectravision. Pure Vision is more of a existential philosophical point of view than a religous group or cult in which One seeking understanding and enlightenment of the Cosmic Universe and Life As We Know It is prompted by an intergalatic field of all knowing nothingness to detatch Oneself from all boxed in (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=787063&highlight=pure+vision#post787063) realms of human experience and "knowledge" as we know it through Unversal Intraspection and spirit journeys with the aim of better awareness of the self and others through interacting with all portals of possible human-orb out of body experiences as sponsered by Tim Brewer for a Better 2012 and Lobotatussin™ ("Wave Away Brain Waves") begun and understood by anyone who chooses to accept All That It Is and can both mentally and physically succeed trancendentalism within and away from all Time and Space.

As a member of The Universal Orb Party for Tim Brewer for a better 2012-2020 Era of Enlightment (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=787449&highlight=pure+vision#post787449), I am proud to say that my Eabrth based parental units raised me as a Christian orb, but I was converted by a young man by the name of Ezekial Popeil the door of my home last summer this time of year and was given the pamphlet which would forever shatter my world view and would enlist me forever and always as a practitioner of All That Is. It was then I was brought with a few friend of mine (including my brothers Fonzy and Cranman) to the local Pure Vision medicine woman who sells tobacco pipes out of her Treasure Chest nearby the beach and was brought to the understanding that One could elevate himself to a higher state of being in order to more narrowly and accurately vibrate as according to the tides of the beach and the wanning of the moon in what could produce within each of us molecular evidence that we are, as humans, descendants of All That Is, an empty encompassment of chaotically interchanging matter and energy, Pur Vision and Humanity for all time. Of course it was not until I arrived at this point, that I realise the tiny medicine woman, Sunny, was right in her world view and it was I who was flawed. It was with this that I was assurred Jesus Christ was a good novelty deity, someone I could pray to on holidays and Sundays, but Turbo 2020 was the real Savior of All That Is and it was He that I would converse interactivally during spiritual trips and Ultraintraspectravisions within my invisible thoughts and Hope for a better, Enlightened, tomorrow. So it was then I dedicated my life to that the life of Future President Tim Brewer (and his family in which I give special Secret Services to his wife and act as a body guard to his children (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=783709&highlight=pure+vision#post783709)whilst he is away at the pizza place) for a better fun 2012 in hopes that with his help I could hold down the fort for the United Universe of All That Is, that is at least until our Prophet returns and rushes in the restructering of society as we know in what would be a revolution in all invisible thought and action. A time when orbs were not Afterlife martyrs, but instead Everlasting Orblights of All That Is, if you will. It is in this time of alignment, the Humanity will revel in Brotherhood and Unity and Jesus will return to the Earth to pay favor to the totally new groovey outlook of Turbo 20/20. We are still working on the recipe to our kool-aid, however, but if you are interested in testing some substances for us be sure to talk to my secretary, and also friend as well, Future Vice President of All That Is Martin... let's say Shmartin.

I was thinking with all the different back grounds and different parts of the world every one is from this might make a good topic.


This is a very good point, but I must once again disagree with you. Deadlooks (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=785902&highlight=pure+vision#post785902), an Afterlife Orb, has shared with us his futile imaginings of a Scientology student seeking understanding through books and conversations and has come to the conclusion that we were put here by distorted versions of intelligent design which employ the idea that the Universe was created by something within it and not the other way around. Aliens did not create us, and neither did L Ron Hubbard Fully understand All That Is when he published his book and drove his children to suicide, but leave it to an Australian to distort what has been said. So of course I am justisfied in my hatred for the country, in going to war over his belligerance (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=785710&highlight=pure+vision#post785710), in making a retalitory (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=785719&highlight=pure+vision#post785719)attack by America on Australia (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=785722&highlight=war+australia#post785722)in defense of The Brain Gate, and all in all perpetuating a hate that shall bring about eventually a perpetual peace (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=799637&highlight=pure+vision#post799637)!

So, no, speaking about people of different backgrounds and ideals is not exactly an interesting topic here @ :ff:, it's a dark and traumatic rememberance that religious crusades made with no man enlightened.
We live in a world where the elite rule and common orbs should wait patiently for Time Brewer to wage with an iron fist in world politics.
It will take a decade of war for a year of everlasting peace.

Fix the problem be before it exists! A pre-emptive strike on probabilities.

My god is a man in a mask, a man rumored of deceit and lies, a prophet of an age to come, a man many say hides his face in shame and disgust of his praise and following, and for him I close my eyes and for all time shall lay witness to that which is Pure Vision.


Now please, if you could discontinue posting such offensive things, teasasue, it would be much appreciated. You can not go on interpreting what are in all actuality orbs, unearthly projections of all Time and space, as the paranormal! That would be silly. Rather than putting a spell on your house, order a pizza and ask your local practitioner for a pamphlet of All That Is. Everybody does there part and everybody's a winner! An orb is an orb is an orb!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3516/3806022781_5dd14d17e5.jpg

Your World View Will Be Shattered.

[teasasue]

.
My mother's attitude is a bit nicer, in that she thinks that religion can be a good thing, but that a lot of religious groups make into a bad thing (read: fundamentalists, homophobic or sexist religious sects, etc.).


I think that anything can be made good or bad depending on how people use it.


And even if you're a liberal Christian, you're still holding up a sexist, almost certainly homophobic (I'm not sure whether the gay-friendly interpretations of scripture really hold up) book as sacred. You're just ignoring those parts. Or claiming that they don't apply anymore. Which just means that you believe God (who is unchanging) used to advocate sexist, homophobic things for ancient goatherders, but now he doesn't. And that seems like a very strange position to me.

that is a whole other topic and one a lot of people have a hard time dealing with, what the bible says and how people choose to understand it can often times be totally different things. I am not above believing that people change the bible to suit them, and that is one of the reason I dont go to church. Me and God have our own relationship, and no matter what other people say I believe that he loves everyone regardless.

Basically, as long as you're holding that book sacred, it leaves open the possibility of going back and reviving those parts, or of your kids (if you have some, and raise them as Christians) being riper targets for being converted to varieties of Christianity that are sexist and homophobic. But
don't get me wrong, I do definitely have a more positive attitude towards liberal Christians.


I also have my own thoughts on this one as well and I dont really feel comfortable sharing those with the whole forum, but if you want to hear it I will be more than happy to pm you. I will just say that me and my boys dads feel very different on this topic.

[LadyShea]

I checked a couple of sites on that and there was 1 that seemed to know and be able to answer how they work, they are like on either side of the spectrum, everything is god and the other is god made the earth basically then nothing after that and its pointless to worship, was my feeling on it.

You got the gist.

Deism basically posits a non-personal god. A creator that does not interact with or interfere with its creation. Pantheism, as I understand it, posits that the Universe itself is Divine, and therefore all within it is also Divine and revered.

Oh, and I gave up trying to believe in any divinity, it wasn't due to any confusion to how various religious schools of thought work.

The Universe is, to me, mysterious and awesome and inspiring just as it is...though I don't feel any need to worship it. Pantheism was actually the closest thing I could find to describe my actual beliefs, then I realized that adding divinity was just unnecessary and extraneous.

[Dingfod]

@Gonzo: :tealdeer:

[Qingdai]

Atheist, raised by two atheists, one who was also raised by an atheist, the other who was raised Methodist Christian. All in the US.

I can't keep track of all the Christian sects. I have no idea what they mean, talk about confusing.

Religion is only interesting to me in an anthropological way.

[teasasue]

I was not raised in any church, and religious practice is entirely absent from my immediate family. I could characterize the attitude towards religion present in my household when I was a child as irreverent, bordering on derisive.
Why do you think that since your family didnt practice any form of religion that that didnt have an effect on how you decided not to have a religion or believe an anything.
[/QUOTE]
Nothing in what I wrote indicates that I reject the possibility that my immediate family's beliefs on religion did not condition, or have some formative effect on, my present beliefs about religion. Your question, such as it is, is inapposite.[/QUOTE]

ok I am sorry the words that are in red is what confused me, thank you for explaining.

[ceptimus]

I'm in England.

I was sent to a Methodist Sunday School as a child (Methodism is Christianity, but they also preach about the evils of alcohol and other drugs). At school there were also Christian assemblies every day - in these we had to sing hymns and listen to a sort of sermon.

My parents were not particularly religious and didn't go to church on any regular basis. They were nominally Christian and went through the motions - they did go to church occasionally; my sister and I were taught to pray each evening before going to bed.

As far back as I can remember, I was always questioning and sceptical about the religious teaching I was receiving. By about the age of twelve, I'd decided that there was no truth in it, and I've not changed my view much since then.

I'm agnostic about the universe having a designer, but I'm atheist in the sense that even if there was/is such a designer I don't believe he plays any active role in the running of the universe - he just set the rules and left it to run by itself ever after. I certainly don't think anyone is listening to our prayers, hymns, etc.

The history of religion is quite interesting to me, and I often ponder on whether civilization could have reached its present state without the influence of religion in the past. I also enjoy looking around old churches, cathedrals and the like. I'm mainly interested in the buildings themselves and the skills and methods of the craftsmen and artists that built them.

I hope and believe that, if humanity has a future, people will be better educated and more able to decide for themselves what to believe. I don't like the idea of children being indoctrinated into belief systems - they should be told about all the different religions that are out there, and told to make up their own minds what they wish to believe and/or study.

ETA: I didn't really answer the question. For me there is no 'higher power'. For good or ill, the highest power is the consensus view of humans around the world - not necessarily the leaders - the population at large can change those leaders when they become sufficiently outraged at them.

[Brimshack]

I don't believe in a higher power. Also, I don't believe in Beliefs. I was raised Spiritualist/Theosophist, and deconverted at around 18 or 19. I've lived in the western U.S. most of my life.

[teasasue]

Not true. I am practitioner of Pure Vision (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=782688&postcount=458) as well as a graduate of The Pure Vision Institute of Higher Learning having received honor scholarships in all fields of Unearthly Universal Ultraintraspectravision. Pure Vision is more of a existential philosophical point of view than a religous group or cult in which One seeking understanding and enlightenment of the Cosmic Universe and Life As We Know It is prompted by an intergalatic field of all knowing nothingness to detatch Oneself from all boxed in (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=787063&highlight=pure+vision#post787063) realms of human experience and "knowledge" as we know it through Unversal Intraspection and spirit journeys with the aim of better awareness of the self and others through interacting with all portals of possible human-orb out of body experiences as sponsered by Tim Brewer for a Better 2012 and Lobotatussin™ ("Wave Away Brain Waves") begun and understood by anyone who chooses to accept All That It Is and can both mentally and physically succeed trancendentalism within and away from all Time and Space.




I think all that you said was very interesting and thank you for posting it, I just wanted to let you know that I am actually going to check that out later because right now I am about out of time and have to leave.

[Dingfod]

Ignore my poor attempt at humor above.

I was raised in a family that went to the nearest Southern Baptist church any time there was anything happening at the church. Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Wednesday nights, revivals, church socials, RA meetings, GA meetings, Vacation Bible School, etc. I played the role of good Christian boy up until about age 16. Looking back on all of it now, I'm not sure I ever believed much of what I was taught, or even what I was saying, mostly by rote, but there was a turning point at age 16 when I discarded all of it.

Church and Sunday School bored me silly. I don't recall ever studying a Sunday School lesson or being in the class that I wouldn't be staring out the window, wishing I was out there instead of where I was. During church services I studied the construction of the exposed roof trusses and stained glass windows. I'm still in awe of church architecture. People have spent enormous amounts of time and money in tribute to something I don't think exists.

Mom would get us to church even when Dad couldn't because of his shift work. But, little did we know, and really never suspected, Mom was a closeted atheist all along, all her life, really. I didn't find out until I was about 27 years old. By then I had firmed my convictions that I didn't believe in any interventionist or interactive gods. I still hadn't let go of the supernatural by then, that took just a few years more. I think of myself as an atheist, but call myself agnostic with atheistic leanings. I don't believe in anything supernatural. I believe there are things we don't know... yet, but will someday.

[Miisa]

Atheist.

Was raised a cultural Evangelical Lutheran and expected to believe, but accidentally threw baby Jesus out with the bathwater of other things (Father Christmas, tooth fairy, etc) that I was "supposed" to discard, around age 7 or so. Always though of myself as being agnostic until I actually looked up the words, and realized atheist was closer.

That said, I do worship Joss Whedon.

[Dingfod]

That said, I do worship Joss Whedon.Weirdo, have a seat over there by Gonzo.

[Watser?]

I was raised a Catholic in the Netherlands, which is a country traditionally dominated by Calvinists, two main branches 'hervormd' and 'gereformeerd' (which both translates as reformed). Roughly speaking hervormd is more moderate than gereformeerd as far as I can tell.

But I was raised a Catholic and I guess I am still culturally Catholic. Dutch (former) Catholics are not as tight-butted as Dutch reformed. Even after deconversion the difference is notable (although part of it is probably regional, Catholics tend to dominate in the southern provinces and some other areas).

Other than the cultural I am atheist in the sense that I am sure the god(s) of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Mormonism, Rastafarianism and what else have you in Abrahamic religions, don't exist. Anthropomorphized gods in general. As for 'higher powers', I am agnostic about that in the sense that I realize we can't be sure but I don't believe in them.

[Miisa]

Ok, though I am nowhere near that weird.

:gonzo::penguin:

Now what?

[Dingfod]

I guess wait to burn in hell with the rest of us.

[Kael]

I'm in the US. I was raised LDS, Mormon to most everyone. My journey, in short summation, is that I was continually miffed at all and sundry in my immediate and extended family (with the exception of my brothers) and in my hometown and everywhere I went in Utah proclaiming every Sunday and at every other opportunity that they knew the doctrine of the church was absolutely and completely true. Try as I might, I could only believe, and never felt comfortable with anyone calling it knowledge. Around the time most Mormon boys are getting ready to go proclaim that 'knowledge' for a two-year mission, though it actually started some years earlier, I first decided that I couldn't go around and talk to other people about 'knowing' what I only believed. This was followed by a period of inquiry into other religions and, upon finding them so like my own despite being taught that my church was different, unique, and the true one, moved away from religion entirely as a personal factor in my life.

Since then I have as little to do with the church as a person living in Utah can. Though I still respect the many community and humanitarian projects that the church organizes, I no longer even try to believe any of it is true, and view their dogma with the same skepticism that I view any proclaimed Divine Truth. I would be most readily categorized as an atheist, and like ChuckF I am always immediately suspicious of anyone who claims to know about anything divine or spiritual. Though I had a brief backlash phase where I was extremely critical and condescending to anything and everything religious, I try to maintain a stance of agnosticism in most of my dealings with the religious these days. If someone tells me the 'know' something I say 'prove it', but so long as they're willing to acknowledge that they are personal beliefs I'm happy to discuss them in depth.

TL;DR: I was the kid who always thought to myself in church 'how can they possibly know that?' and never found any satisfactory answers. So, I'm an atheist.

Final addendum: Upon setting aside the dogma to which I was raised, imagine my surprise when I discovered that coffee is really good. I still haven't found an alcoholic drink that doesn't taste like ass, though. Beer is disgusting, and I never thought I'd think of anything as 'too sweet' until I tried rum. :bleh:

[Gonzo]

Not true. I am practitioner of Pure Vision (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=782688&postcount=458) as well as a graduate of The Pure Vision Institute of Higher Learning having received honor scholarships in all fields of Unearthly Universal Ultraintraspectravision. Pure Vision is more of a existential philosophical point of view than a religous group or cult in which One seeking understanding and enlightenment of the Cosmic Universe and Life As We Know It is prompted by an intergalatic field of all knowing nothingness to detatch Oneself from all boxed in (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=787063&highlight=pure+vision#post787063) realms of human experience and "knowledge" as we know it through Unversal Intraspection and spirit journeys with the aim of better awareness of the self and others through interacting with all portals of possible human-orb out of body experiences as sponsered by Tim Brewer for a Better 2012 and Lobotatussin™ ("Wave Away Brain Waves") begun and understood by anyone who chooses to accept All That It Is and can both mentally and physically succeed trancendentalism within and away from all Time and Space.




I think all that you said was very interesting and thank you for posting it, I just wanted to let you know that I am actually going to check that out later because right now I am about out of time and have to leave.

Hello and thank you for those kind words, teasasue!

I really hope you're not just saying that! It's time you find out the truth for yourself.

[curses]

US, agnostic with buddhist leanings. Not so much in the way of reincarnation or higher power, but more of a focus on how to live life simply and kindly. Not so good on the part of practicing right speech, but working on it. I actually feel the same way Watser? does about higher powers and such.

I was brought up Methodist in the Southeast, did everything from singing in the choir to teaching VBS. I could never get over the fact that everything I read in the Bible (OT) was passed on from word of mouth until someone finally wrote it down. Something about the voice of God being written down by the hand of man didn't jive well. Man is never objective with anything. The NT to me was just a way for a Roman emperor to have control over his polytheistic subjects. A bit simplified but I don't want to take up 9 pages of what I think.

I have no problem with organized religion so long as the people are (to use an Eddie Izzard quote) relaxed and groovy. I like discussing religion as long as it stays civil and respectful of the other person.

[godfry n. glad]

I was raised by an agnostic skeptic father who assured I was never required to attend any religious function I did not wish to attend. My mother was a conservative protestant christian, raised in the Church of the Brethren, but far from her religious community in the western US, she took up with the United Methodists.

The only real exposure to religious training I had as a child was my spin as the in-house skeptic at regular Methodist youth group gatherings. It was basically a ploy to meet girls, as I attended an all-boys public school. It did give me a better overview of christian dogma, though, and an introduction to the varieties of mainstream christian experience in my community. I read the Bible cover-to-cover at that point.

Since, I've intellectually wandered through the peripheries of world religions, Buddhism and philosophical Taoism most intensively, and played at erecting my own neo-pagan traditions. I finally decided that my honest opinion was that of a militant agnostic..."I don't know, and neither do you." But, functionally, atheist would be just as adequate a label. I have a continuing interest in religious teachings and have read widely, even serving in extending the discussion of the historicity of Jesus in helping found a semi-academic online discussion group.

A higher power? "The Tao which can be named is not the Tao."

[ChuckF]

hello godfry

[Dingfod]

... militant agnostic..."I don't know, and neither do you." ...Consider that stolen.

Oh, and chuck says hello.

[teasasue]

I am practitioner of Pure Vision (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=782688&postcount=458) as well as a graduate of The Pure Vision Institute of Higher Learning

ok from what I have read on this link it sounds like it could be the alien religion, but I could be wrong I am going to read the rest as well.It also sounds like it has some of the christian beliefs with a twist.

[Adam]

Pro-tip: Gonzo is referring to the entertainingly offbeat spam of one Tim Brewer (see here (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20419)). Some of us, including him, claim to be followers of Tim's Afterlife Orb pseudo-religion as a joke.

[teasasue]

Pro-tip: Gonzo is referring to the entertainingly offbeat spam of one Tim Brewer (see here (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20419)). Some of us, including him, claim to be followers of Tim's Afterlife Orb pseudo-religion as a joke.

ok thank you I will stop reading now.

[Ymir's blood]

Death is my higher power. Everything that lives feeds on Death and Death feeds on everything that lives.

[Shelli]

"Everything is either dead or dying." ~ Raistlin

[roastelk]

i consider myself an ignorant apatheticist.... ie, i don't know any thing about religion, I and don't really care that I don't know nothing about any religion.

as far as religious activities go, As long the easter bunny shits out chocolate eggs all over my house once a year am happy. I do go along with the whole christmas thing though, its a good excuse to get together and be drunk with friends and family, that and its fun watching my kid open presents.

[viscousmemories]

Born and raised in the USA, served two years in the US Army in (then) W. Germany.

I was raised in a charismatic Christian cult, so I have experience with raising my arms in the air and babbling nonsensically under the pretense of praising the Christian God in his own tongue. I started doubting in my very early teens (if not pre-teens) and by about my early 20's gave up trying to believe altogether. Some of my family members have looked behind the curtain as well, but most are still blissfully ignorant. I love most of them anyway, but there's a reason I live 1500 miles away from them.

I don't begrudge people their beliefs except when said beliefs compel them to attack my rights or the rights of my fellow citizens.

I generally say I'm an atheist when asked, but weak or agnostic atheist is more accurate. I can't prove there is no God, gods, spirits or superheroes, I've just never heard a good reason to believe in them.

Also, what Chuck said.

[Adam]

I can't prove there is no God, gods, spirits or superheroes, I've just never heard a good reason to believe in them.

:sadno:

That's a real shame, vm. Remember, even though you don't believe in Him, Aquaman still believes in you.

[viscousmemories]

I want to believe, really I do. :(

[Clutch Munny]

Suck it, Jesus! livius is my god now!
:shakeliv:

[Shelli]

:rofl:

[Lauri D]

"Agnostatheist"

Strictly speaking, an a-theist; also agnostic.

[Chris Porter]

US. Atheist/Agnostic/Pantheist (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pantheism/). *
Existential (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/existentialism/) pragmatacist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmaticism). Raised Presbyterian. I've read the bible full through 3 times at least, it's no longer possible for me to believe the god depicted in that book is in any sense, "Real".

I attended a Catholic mass for the first time last Saturday. To me, it was like watching any other blood ritual performed to please a deity. Same concepts, different symbols. It was absolutely fascinating from an anthropological perspective, and deeply horrifying from an ethical perspective.

*I'm atheist about all "known" god descriptions (Baal, Ganesh, Yahweh, etc.). I'm agnostic on whether or not gods as more than an concept exist. I'm pantheistic because I suspect all things in this universe are inextricably entwined and related in a fashion that could be called a single thing, possibly with the nomenclature "god".

[teasasue]

thank you all for posting this has been very interesting and a learning experience for me, I also want to let you know that if there are any more post it may take me a little time to read since I have a wedding tomorrow that I think I will end up being at from the time I wake up till I come home and go to bed but I will get to them as soon as possible. :)

[chunksmediocrites]

United States, atheist. Raised very vaguely Christian by lapsed Catholics; I remember not knowing who Pontius Pilate was, when referenced in a conversation at age 15.

In my early 20's, dabbled with Zen Buddhism/ Alan Watts (interesting), meditation (difficult), read some J. Krishnamurti (good), read some Paramahansa Yogananda (meh). Mostly informal.

Later more formally looked into Zen Buddhism (okay), did more meditation (difficult), looked into Varjrayana (Tibetan) Buddhism (heavily ritualized), explored the teachings of Gangaji (kind of Advaita Vendanta with American Zen flavor? Good).

Some of this was very useful and interesting and challenging. Meditation and observing the mind, and activity of the mind. Clarifying the delusional quality of much of thought. Looking at self-identity. Moments when the mind and attention are still and quiet without effort or lack of effort, and what is to be seen in that.

Some portion of this involved stories which were meant to impress or awe with supernatural powers. I love supernatural stories, legends, and metaphors, especially exotic ones- but unsupported hooha rings false, no matter the venue. Some of it involved the idea of fully committing to a teacher, which to me is strangely compelling (like a vampire memerizing prey), but also a recipe for personality cults and abrogation of personal responsibility. Some of it involved talking a lot about enlightenment which can be interesting for relatively short periods when someone has something worth saying on the subject; usually instead it involved snags* droning on repetitively and ego stroking.

*sensitive new age guys

[Caligulette]

Raised by lapsed Catholic and occasional Christians. Converted to Conservative Judaism, which I liked mostly for the questions and intensive study. Food was better, too. Had a lot of trouble actually believing in god, decided I didn't have to, and feel much better now. Still don't eat pork. Shellfish, though....

At first I thought I'd best join some kind of atheist alliance or whatever and then decided that the factionalism within the Atheist Community was almost as annoying as dealing with the Israeli consulate in Salt Lake City. (Particularly the self-styled "brights". Oy.) So I just happily try to be a good person without that stuff'n'such.

My higher power might be Carl Sagan. His writings, any way. I like that he was tolerant, patient, and deeply thinky. But I do not venerate him, depend on him to Get Things Done, etc. That would be wacky and useless, since he's dead.

[The Man]

I was raised Lutheran. All things told it was a pretty liberal church; I don't remember any demonising of gays or anything, and there was a pretty strong emphasis on helping the poor. I had nagging doubts about why there were so many miracles back in Biblical times when there were none in evidence in modern times, but on the whole I still believed until I was... eh... nineteen or so. Then something in me snapped. Maybe I just saw the world as it is and finally realised that it could not be the product of a loving, omnipotent, omniscient creator. Maybe I'd done enough research to convince me fully that the Bible was in fact purely the product of mankind. Whatever it was, I became firmly convinced that the Christian God was a logical impossibility. I am agnostic about the existence of other deities, although I have no reason to believe they exist, which probably qualifies me as an atheist. I've been using the phrase "militantly agnostic atheism" to describe my beliefs for about a month; it's interesting that godfry used a similar term.

Religion is a tricky issue for me. I am opposed to all forms of hierarchical authority because my observation of human nature leads me to suspect that it will almost always be abused. This is borne out by many psychological experiments - for example, the Stanford Prison Experiment took a bunch of ordinary college students and revealed that, placed in the rôle of a jailer, most of them would behave like monsters, and the Milgram experiment revealed that the vast majority of humans unquestioningly obey authority, even at the expense of others' lives. So for this reason I'm suspicious of organised religion, just like I'm suspicious of government, of the military, of corporations, and of pretty much anything else that follows a top-down structure. But on the whole, I don't really care what people believe, as long as they don't try to impose those beliefs on others. I also think there is quite a bit of wisdom to be found in many religious traditions, even though I don't subscribe to any of their supernatural beliefs - in particular, I think Zen and Taoism have given the world much more good than they have harm. However, at the end of the day, religion is a force like any other - it's essentially neutral; how it affects the world depends entirely upon the intentions of the people using it. It's just unfortunate that so many of them seem to have only their own interests at heart. If I were to convert to a religion it would probably be either Tolstoyism or Discordianism given the virulently anti-authoritarian nature of each, although I have also been studying Zen and Taoism lately and do find appealing features in each.

Oh, and I live in the southeastern United States, despite having written in the Queen's English for at least eight years. The first five years of my life I spent in Atlanta; most of the rest of it was spent in Florida, southeast for some of it, but I've spent most of my formative years in Sarasota. And I, too, agree with pretty much everything Chuck said.

[Dingfod]

Pro-tip: Gonzo is referring to the entertainingly offbeat spam of one Tim Brewer (see here (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20419)). Some of us, including him, claim to be followers of Tim's Afterlife Orb pseudo-religion as a joke.I'm sorry, I cannot go along, I'm sure all truth can be found here (http://www.timecube.com).

[godfry n. glad]

... militant agnostic..."I don't know, and neither do you." ...Consider that stolen.



It's already a bumpersticker...so I stole it. It's descriptive; it's useful.

[Gonzo]

I can only imagine one of those militant agnostic folks talking to a christian fundamentalist, you know, all the rage. Would Bill Mahr count as a militant?

[godfry n. glad]

I can only imagine one of those militant agnostic folks talking to a christian fundamentalist, you know, all the rage. Would Bill Mahr count as a militant?

Sorry...I don't know. I'm fairly sure that the militant agnostics wouldn't be talking much to the christian fundamentalist types, 'cause I suspect they'd be too busy talking with their god. They do that, I'm told.

Sometimes in some very peculiar manners, too.

[Watser?]

snags* droning on repetitively and ego stroking.

*sensitive new age guys

:snicker:

[Gonzo]

Lesbian seagulls...
http://www.madatoms.com/uploads/content/images/home/DavidVanDriessen.jpg

[Ari]

Agnostic atheist philosophical taoist (that sounds less like a belief and more like a multi-class character in some bad religious RPG).

Raised Christian, we went to a methodist church mostly because we had friends there and I remember doing some sunday school but otherwise we were pretty non practicing.

I'm not sure I ever really believed or if I just repeated it back to the grown-ups because that's what they wanted to hear. Eitherway by middle school I was questioning why it was only a male God and so assumed there must be a male and a female God. That quickly slipped into a deistic view that God built the universe and then set it into motion. Then I quickly realized that with such a distant God, there really isn't any reason for him to have thought, personality, or self awareness. A non aware force/event would work equally fine.

I found taoism through reading the tao of pooh and now have multiple translations of the tao te ching and IChing. Although they have been collecting dust for awhile now. The idea of a 'flow' to the universe was interesting and much more compatible, in my mind, with science than many other religions. Compatibility with science is important to me as science is what keeps me wondering about the philosophical unknown. Science shows time and time again that the universe is far stranger than anyone has yet to imagine. The creation stories of most organized religions sound like the musings of nomadic goat herders compared to the 13 billion year history that science has uncovered so far. This is also why I hold an "I don't know" view when it comes to other paranormal. I am a skeptic and question most/all of the psychic and other paranormal phenomena I have seen. However just because many people have gotten it wrong doesn't mean it can't exist.

My Totem animal is :stitch:

[roastelk]

United States, atheist. Raised very vaguely Christian by lapsed Catholics; I remember not knowing who Pontius Pilate was, when referenced in a conversation at age 15.


who? :scratch: I assume this isn't the same Pilate that the Pilates fitness system was named after

[The Lone Ranger]

I was raised a Southern Baptist, but it didn't take. For two main reasons: first, I had a nasty habit of asking questions and refusing to take "because I/the Bible said so" as an answer, and second, because I went to the trouble of actually reading the Bible.


Lots of the things my Sunday School teachers told me just plain didn't make sense. Like why a supposedly all-powerful God would need to go to the trouble of creating a global flood and wiping out virtually all life on Earth when he could simply have snapped his fingers and fixed everything. So I'd ask my Sunday School teachers about it. Sooner or later, they'd fall back on "You must take it on faith."

At that point, they lost me. "Believing something is true doesn't make it true," as I replied out to one of them. Needless to say, this didn't exactly make me their favorite.


By the time I was 12 or so, I had read the Bible for myself, looking for the answers. This only made things worse. First was the problem that the Bible contains all sorts of contradictions, outright falsehoods, terrible moral advice, and bad logic -- hardly what you'd expect from a divinely-inspired text. Even worse, the Bible clearly and unapologetically depicts God as an utter monster. If the God of the Bible exists, he's a fiend. Certainly, the Biblical God is unworthy of any honorable and self-respecting person's respect, much less worship. Reading the Bible pretty-much destroyed my belief in Christianity, since the Biblical God is not omnipotent, is certainly not omniscient, and is anything but benevolent. So, pretty-much everything they wanted me to believe about God in the church was flatly contradicted by what the Bible said.


There was never any "aha" moment or anything, as far as I was concerned. But by the time I was in my early teens, I had come to regard the stories of the Bible as just that -- quaint, sometimes interesting stories. And I could see no reason to take the stories taken by other religions any more seriously.



My general attitude now is that life is far too short to spend worrying about a purely hypothetical afterlife and purely hypothetical gods. The probability that any sort of god(s) exist is right up there with the probability that werewolves, leprechauns and pixies exist, so I no more worry about god(s) than I do about leprechauns.


If some sort of god(s) exist and if one's consciousness can somehow persist after death (both of these proposals, as far as I can tell, have probabilities so low as to be, for all practical purposes, zero), then it's really very simple, as I see it. Either the god(s) are just or they aren't.

Since we have no verifiable evidence regarding the existence of gods or the afterlife and a whole lot of very good reasons to think that such things don't exist, it's more than reasonable to provisionally reject such notions as mere wishful thinking. Someday, someone may come up with some actual evidence in favor of the existence of gods and/or the afterlife, but I'm not going to hold my breath while I wait.

What's more, given that we have no verifiable evidence regarding what these entirely hypothetical gods might want us to do with our lives, the only thing any of us can do is try to live the best life possible. [Your definition of the "best life" may vary.] If gods exist, we mortals have no way of knowing what (if anything) they expect of us, since they have neglected to clearly inform us.


If there is actually such a thing as an afterlife, then either the god(s) are just or they aren't. No just god would punish someone who tried to live a good life but failed to obey arbitrary rules that were never clearly laid out and communicated. And if the gods are unjust, you're screwed anyway.




So, I try to lead the best life that I can. I'm far from perfect in this sense, but I regard myself as a work in process, and always hope to better myself. [Anyone who actually manages to live up to his or her standards has standards that are too low.] As for gods and the afterlife, I consider the existence of such things as so unlikely as to be unworthy of serious consideration and a waste of time. I've much better things to worry about.

(That said, I regard the existence of religion as an interesting thing. It's a fascinating insight into how the human mind works.)


Cheers,

Michael

[Adam]

Agnostic atheist philosophical taoist (that sounds less like a belief and more like a multi-class character in some bad religious RPG).

Can I preorder this game you are developing, Mr. Ari?

[maddog]

I'm in the U.S. Born atheist and stayed that way.

I don't believe in a higher power. ...

I don't "believe" in a higher power, either, but maybe not in the way it's generally meant. I don't have to "believe," because I experience directly. Also, it's not a "higher" power, it's only a power greater than myself. The power greater than myself that I experience is the help and kindness of friends and strangers. Human beings working together can often accomplish what is much more difficult to do alone.

#2475

[Shelli]

All :tigger: jokes aside.. that there are (so many) people who are convinced that there "must" be a "higher power" just makes me... :stwitch: :blankstare: :rolleyes: :brooding:

I'm not pinpointing anyone or any belief in particular. It's just my take on it in general. Until something concrete proves/presents itself to me as undeniable proof.. the whole notion is.. well.. just a notion, IMO.

[livius drusus]

This is a really interesting thread. Thank you for starting it, teasasue. :thankee:

I was born in the US but raised in Italy from infancy until college. Catholic girls school all the way. Since my parents were both sort of vague Protestants (Mom Episcopalian, Dad Congregationalist, but in practice those labels meant nothing) church wasn't really an issue. My parents considered it a cultural experience, and since we were living in the seat of Catholicism, I went to mass at school whenever they threw one, and every Sunday we went to St. Peter's square at noon to see the Pope bless the city, hear the thousand bells ring, then hit the German restaurant nearby for brats, schnitzels and Lowenbrau. Damn those schnitzels were good.

I considered myself a non-denominational, non-Biblical Christian until after college when I suddenly realized I didn't actually believe in the Christian God after reading Gore Vidal's Julian. So far I haven't encountered any other claimed physical deities that I found plausible, although I do enjoy a good metaphoric one, especially the oldest Roman gods who are amorphous and a little scary. They also had separate gods for every possible body of water, disease and house. I dig that richness and variety.

I'm a huge fan of religious literature and arts, and a beautiful church still gives me chills. I always light a candle for the souls of departed loved ones, even though I don't think they actually exist in an afterlife of any kind. It's a ritual of memory and the moment is valuable to me. I'm also fascinated by hagiography (lives of saints) and holy relics. I used to climb up the Scala Sancta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scala_Sancta) on my knees with the best of them, until one day my parents pointed out that it's not actually a race and in fact you're kind of supposed to stop and pray on each step.

Oh, and I LOVE Satan/demons/Hell movies, particularly the first two Omens which rule. I even :heart: Constantine even though I understand it does bad things to the original comic, but I haven't read that shit and I'm crazy about Tilda Swinton's Gabriel and Peter Stormare's scenery-chewing Lucifer.

[Adam]

Constantine is a p decent flick, provided you can convince yourself that the similarity of the main character's name to the star of a certain DC comicbook is just an amazing coincidence.

[teasasue]

This is a really interesting thread. Thank you for starting it, teasasue. :thankee:



your welcome I have enjoyed reading this one myself and learning about everyone and how or what they believe. I even enjoyed the little ride that I took following Gonzos links for a while. :)

[livius drusus]

Constantine is a p decent flick, provided you can convince yourself that the similarity of the main character's name to the star of a certain DC comicbook is just an amazing coincidence.
Done. Hey that was easy.

[Crumb]

Tally another US atheist. :shrug: I enjoy reading folks stories, but I don't have much of one myself. Was raised in a less religious wing of a religious family. (Various flavors of protestant.) I just kind of grew out of religion at around 14. I'm sure my interest in science, fantasy and science fiction made such an eventuality inevitable.

[Ymir's blood]

amorphous and a little scary.
:ghost2:

[Deadlokd]

Oh, and I LOVE Satan/demons/Hell movies, particularly the first two Omens which rule. I even :heart: Constantine even though I understand it does bad things to the original comic, but I haven't read that shit and I'm crazy about Tilda Swinton's Gabriel and Peter Stormare's scenery-chewing Lucifer.

Totally this. There is something so....Pagan about Catholic mythology that it can't help but grasp the imagination. Too bad about the boring Jesus bits. I keep waiting for a decent Armageddon movie (without Bruce Willis) where there are angels (wings and all) wiping out humans and then the humans are all "Oh no you d'int" and the angels are "yarly" and the humans are "fuck you buddeh" and start killing the angels back and then god goes "Oh noes!" and comes down in person, so to speak, and someone fires an RPG into his head and he dies.

Instead all I get are glimpses of what angels could be without truly seeing the Choirs. But Constantine rocked.

[Ymir's blood]

Yeah, I could mention how much I like all the stuff inspired by Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost and gothic architecture but you wouldn't believe me.

[Deadlokd]

Not with such a pretty rainbow in your avatar I wouldn't, no.

[Ymir's blood]

Don't be hatin.

[Deadlokd]

:yup:

[Dingfod]

I'm in the U.S. Born atheist and stayed that way.

I don't believe in a higher power. ...

I don't "believe" in a higher power, either, but maybe not in the way it's generally meant. I don't have to "believe," because I experience directly. Also, it's not a "higher" power, it's only a power greater than myself. The power greater than myself that I experience is the help and kindness of friends and strangers. Human beings working together can often accomplish what is much more difficult to do alone.Bumper sticker philosophy: Two hands working accomplish more than a thousand hands folded in prayer.

[erimir]

Agnostic atheist philosophical taoist (that sounds less like a belief and more like a multi-class character in some bad religious RPG).

Can I preorder this game you are developing, Mr. Ari?I just imagined it as a JRPG type thing, where Christians have immunity to snake venom, you have summon spells (for example, the Muslim character can summon Mohammed riding his human-headed flying horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Miraj_by_Sultan_Muhammad.jpg)), and atheist-scientist-type characters are immune to magic (don't worry, you can just beat the unbelievers to death with clubs).
I keep waiting for a decent Armageddon movie (without Bruce Willis) where there are angels (wings and all) wiping out humans and then the humans are all "Oh no you d'int" and the angels are "yarly" and the humans are "fuck you buddeh" and start killing the angels back and then god goes "Oh noes!" and comes down in person, so to speak, and someone fires an RPG into his head and he dies.Spoilery:

Too bad they're probably not going to make movies out of the latter two His Dark Materials books, because the end of the series is pretty similar to what you're describing.

[Qingdai]

I like the cut of your gibberish.
I would also like to subscribe to your gaming manuals.

Especially if there is a rogue Taoist priest, who knows all the feng shui spells to get rid of soul sucking ancestors.
I really have a lot of stuff to work out about my mom, it seems.

[Iacchus]

What or who is your higher power respectivelyIt all comes from the same place. And no, intelligence doesn't just arise out of nothing. In fact it's very much like a recipe with its list of ingredients. The recipe had to come first, as well as a means to establish and maintain the ingredients, despite the fact that we may not understand what all it entails.

I consider myself a believer, but no, I don't belong to any established church.

[Deadlokd]

I read the Dark Materials and saw the first movie and then I wondered why the hell they made it.

[Ari]

I just imagined it as a JRPG type thing, where Christians have immunity to snake venom, you have summon spells (for example, the Muslim character can summon Mohammed riding his human-headed flying horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Miraj_by_Sultan_Muhammad.jpg)), and atheist-scientist-type characters are immune to magic (don't worry, you can just beat the unbelievers to death with clubs).

An interesting idea, enough about the story, you have written enough for two JRPGs! The real question, what kind of oversized and invincibly strong weapon is the main character going to be carrying around?

[teasasue]

What or who is your higher power respectivelyIt all comes from the same place. And no, intelligence doesn't just arise out of nothing. In fact it's very much like a recipe with its list of ingredients. The recipe had to come first, as well as a means to establish and maintain the ingredients, despite the fact that we may not understand what all it entails.

I consider myself a believer, but no, I don't belong to any established church.

I dont belong to a church either I cant find one I like, or is not full of people that will not judge me and mine. 1 of the things I do miss about going is the singing however.

[Adam]

(for example, the Muslim character can summon Mohammed riding his human-headed flying horse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Miraj_by_Sultan_Muhammad.jpg))

Weird coincidence time! I was just reading about Al-Buraq in the Book of Imaginary Beings the other day! On my way to San Jose! At 11:11!

[Caligulette]

I'm in the U.S. Born atheist and stayed that way.

I don't believe in a higher power. ...

I don't "believe" in a higher power, either, but maybe not in the way it's generally meant. I don't have to "believe," because I experience directly. Also, it's not a "higher" power, it's only a power greater than myself. The power greater than myself that I experience is the help and kindness of friends and strangers. Human beings working together can often accomplish what is much more difficult to do alone.

#2475
This is pretty damned gorgeous, and very very true. Thank you.

[wildernesse]

What or who is your higher power respectivelyIt all comes from the same place. And no, intelligence doesn't just arise out of nothing. In fact it's very much like a recipe with its list of ingredients. The recipe had to come first, as well as a means to establish and maintain the ingredients, despite the fact that we may not understand what all it entails.

I consider myself a believer, but no, I don't belong to any established church.

I dont belong to a church either I cant find one I like, or is not full of people that will not judge me and mine. 1 of the things I do miss about going is the singing however.

Singing is one of my favorite things about church, too. The church I'm attending now sings really formal songs, which are hard to sing. One church I used to go to sang camp meeting songs all summer long, and that was wonderful. Maybe you can find a place near you that has good singing to visit every once in a while. I'm not a good singer, but I love to sing, and I know I would miss it, too.

Despite what some people think, it is really hard to find a church where you feel comfortable. :sadcheer:

[teasasue]

What or who is your higher power respectivelyIt all comes from the same place. And no, intelligence doesn't just arise out of nothing. In fact it's very much like a recipe with its list of ingredients. The recipe had to come first, as well as a means to establish and maintain the ingredients, despite the fact that we may not understand what all it entails.

I consider myself a believer, but no, I don't belong to any established church.

I dont belong to a church either I cant find one I like, or is not full of people that will not judge me and mine. 1 of the things I do miss about going is the singing however.

Singing is one of my favorite things about church, too. The church I'm attending now sings really formal songs, which are hard to sing. One church I used to go to sang camp meeting songs all summer long, and that was wonderful. Maybe you can find a place near you that has good singing to visit every once in a while. I'm not a good singer, but I love to sing, and I know I would miss it, too.

Despite what some people think, it is really hard to find a church where you feel comfortable. :sadcheer:

yes it is, I have tried several churches around here the Baptist that I went to as a kid were most of my family goes, I went to a methodist church, and a non denomination church, and a handful of others but none that I want to stick with. All of them have such different music it amazes me at the differences. The baptist church is what I am used to from a child the other churches is music I have never heard but still beautiful.

[Gonzo]

1 of the things I do miss about going is the singing however.

A good friend of mine used to go to Wednesday church meetings and would usually bring me and another friend of ours along. Though we mostly just passed a pen and delinquinted post it notes messages between us while the pastor went on about bible stories, the singing and especially the pianist were always my favorite part. It annoyed me when they all droned verses in unison, but the people in that small community were all very kind to eachother and to me. Otherwise I've only been in church upon the death of a family member. Those I hate. The whole ritual. I could't believe the amount of bullshit that was spewed at my grandmother's funeral by the preist.

[teasasue]

1 of the things I do miss about going is the singing however.

A good friend of mine used to go to Wednesday church meetings and would usually bring me and another friend of ours along. Though we mostly just passed a pen and delinquinted post it notes messages between us while the pastor went on about bible stories, the singing and especially the pianist were always my favorite part. It annoyed me when they all droned verses in unison, but the people in that small community were all very kind to eachother and to me. Otherwise I've only been in church upon the death of a family member. Those I hate. The whole ritual. I could't believe the amount of bullshit that was spewed at my grandmother's funeral by the preist.

sorry about your grandmother no one should do that at a funeral,

[wildernesse]

yes it is, I have tried several churches around here the Baptist that I went to as a kid were most of my family goes, I went to a methodist church, and a non denomination church, and a handful of others but none that I want to stick with. All of them have such different music it amazes me at the differences. The baptist church is what I am used to from a child the other churches is music I have never heard but still beautiful.

The church I go to now is a large, urban UMC and has a full, amazing choir every Sunday with a pipe organ, and it is really incredibly beautiful and majestic. But not-so-secretly, I like the songs my uncle wrote and sang with a string band even better.

[teasasue]

I bet that is cool. Up here the only choirs you will find are in the baptist churches, the rest have bands, or so I have found so far.

[livius drusus]

The Simpsons In The Garden of Eden

[Watser?]

Why is it a mirror-image?

[teasasue]

The Simpsons In The Garden of Eden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4QnVoH8omw)

I wish I had sound on this computer

[livius drusus]

Why is it a mirror-image?
I was wondering that myself. It's the only complete version I could find, though, so I went with it. Fox is a bastard about YouTube clips.

[viscousmemories]

I reckon that's why it's flipped - to keep it from being detected.

[Shake]

wildernesse, I think you're the first person I've heard admit to being an agnostic theist.

Anyway, chalk up another US atheist here. Had no church goings or experience until 4th grade, when the folks started sending my sister and I to a local Lutheran church for Sunday School, in preparation of our first communion (which that church does in 5th grade). From the start, I felt out of place not knowing the Bible stories like all the other kids, but I ate up what I got and once they gave me a Bible, I started trying to read it, but got bogged down in all the begats and gave it up.

After my first communion, the folks actually started attending from time to time. They later got more and more involved until they were helping run the place. Dad was teaching 8th grade confirmation class, which he really enjoyed. I was going along fine in my deluded beliefs until one day after class, I got into a long discussion with Dad about belief. I was in 7th grade and I recall him saying something to the effect that if I wasn't sure about belief that I could wait it out and perhaps finish confirmation later than my classmates. Well, you just don't tell a young teen to make such a stand ... peer pressure kept me going through the following year.

Other discussions we had centered around those who just showed up every week, expecting that alone to be their salvation. Dad said how those folks were just going through the motions and had probably not considered what it really meant to believe and all that goes along with it. Between those talks, something sparked in me and I began to question such hypocrisy among people. I also thought about how religion is a deeply personal thing and wondered how folks could associate themselves in a church. I realized there was a spectrum of views about religion even within our own congregation. This all started me moving away from organized religion, though I continued to come and hang out with the post-confirmation youth group, even attending a national convention in Denver around 1985. Of course, it didn't hurt things that I was majorly crushing on this hot blonde, but I was too shy to ask her out or anything.

Anyway, as high school wore on, I found myself trying to get out of going to church more and more. Even though mom and dad said we could stop going whenever we liked, it was clearly preferred for us to go. Getting a job senior year was a good way to avoid it, and in college I pretty much stopped going altogether. Couple that with taking some philosophy classes, religion in general was on its way out for me.

Some years later, I sought out the term atheist and came to accept it as my worldview. Reading Russell's Why I Am Not a Christian moved me a good ways along that path. Still later with more reading and eventually finding the Secular Web sealed things for me. The Lone Ranger's excellent story some pages back in this thread really struck true with me. I have seen no evidence for the supernatural, and I am a believer in the saying that supernatural claims require supernatural evidence, and the only "evidence" which has been provided me thus far has been anecdotal at best. So, I'm still waiting for some real evidence.

Til then, science, nature, and mathematics are my higher powers. Oh, and chocolate, of course.