Rise in 'rough' sex?

[Gawen]

I reckon first I have to backtrack a bit and clue you in where I'm coming from.

Up until the last year, for 7 years I've role played in fantasy/medieval and medieval role/playing rooms (non-sexual). Some of the websites I've gone to have upwards of 50+ rooms, but not just medieval or fantasy/medieval. A good portion of these rooms are for roleplaying of a different kind. Some of you may have heard of Gor. It's now a very popular and I might add, strong and violent, roleplaying idea. Developed out of several books under the same name, it deals with the Master/slave relationship in a fictional environment. Gorean and M/s players also talk in the way this sentence is used. Sentence wording always use upper case capitals for the dominant and lower case for the subserviant.
Example:
"i would like A/all persons to come to the party tonight." The lower case I denotes a slave or sub writing the sentence. A/all means the person is addressing both the dominants and the subserviants.


There seems to be a growing need? for bondage/discipline and BD/SM. Many of the people I've met throughout the years live this stuff, not just roleplay it. And I know several personally.
When I first started roleplaying, these types of rooms were few. But over the last several years, these rooms have flourished in R/P websites where regular roleplaying (no sex or some soft fluffy crap) has diminished substantially.

I wonder why this is? Are there that many people that really get into the Dom/sub relationships? Is it a fad for the most part? One must remember that the Dom/sub relationship is not always violent, whereas the BD/SM most assuredly is. And both have gained in popularity.
It makes me wonder what happened to enjoying just plain ole romantic sex? And before someone goes off on me for labeling "plain ole romantic sex" and yelling at me to define it...I think you all know what I mean, what within the context of the OP.

[LadyShea]

When I was dancing, I had several customers who were high powered CEO types with big pressure jobs. The wanted to be subservient for a few hours...even if it was just a stripper telling them to give her money. Now, I can ALMOST get it, but still not quite.

I wonder if people's lives are so out of their control and random and unpredictable, that they like to "play" where there are specific and set rules of engagement and responsibilites?

Just a thought

[Nil Desperandum]

Because people's lives are filled with the mundane, trivial, the inconsequential, they must find meaning.

I control every single aspect of my life, but I honestly would like a moment to be told exactly what to do, in bed, without any thought past 'Oh shit,I'm going to cum.'

That's my release, in more ways than one, because I drive myself insane with worry and anxiety. When someone controls me sexually, it is a freedom. :shrug;

Chris

[WinAce]

Analyzing it that deeply is entertaining, but I'm not sure if it's fruitful. Some people just get off on such fantasies, for the same reason as others get off on different ones altogether, I guess.

Also, neither of those need be violent at all. Just playfully fun. :D

[Gawen]

Not that I'm one to look down on anyone's sexual activity. Whatever floats your boat, I always say. No, what I wrote above seems more of a reflection of past observances.

But these, as one here said, fantasies, are become real, or so it looks like to me.
I wonder if people's lives are so out of their control and random and unpredictable, that they like to "play" where there are specific and set rules of engagement and responsibilites? I reckon so, just as much as
people's lives are filled with the mundane, trivial, the inconsequential, they must find meaning. This subject would fill volumes of a psycho-social book.

What brought it up was a couple days ago I went back to a few of the rooms I played in. Some of them no longer exist. But the BD/SM/Gor/Porn rooms are at capacity and there's more of them. Ironically, I found two old friends in one of the Gor rooms. Actually, they found me as I was using my old screen name. I was quite surprised, but asked no questions.

Twas just a thought only. Thought I'd share the question. Thanks for the responses.

[Goliath]

You know, I used to be a sadomasochistic necrophile into beastiality....

...but then I realized that I was just beating a dead horse.

:P

[Roland98]

*groan*





(That would be at Goliath's joke, not at anything involving sex, obviously)

[Goliath]

(That would be at Goliath's joke, not at anything involving sex, obviously)

*sob* But I keep trying!!! Isn't 3 minutes enough for you?!

:sadeyes: :sobbing:

:D

[Adora]

I think with the creation of the internet, it's just become far more obvious. A lot of people dabble in it these days just to see what it's all about. *shrugs*

You wouldn't believe some of the stories I've heard (and witnessed) about geek sexuality. One of the most interesting and recent ones involves a love triangle... no, square, er, pentagon, oh fuckit, I can't remember, and a gentleman whose anti-depressant medication has caused him to ejaculate into his bladder everytime he comes (yeah, like Guru sex).

[Gawen]

I've talked with a lot of people who are into this. (My interest stems from college days and what I wanted to do with my life. I wanted to teach human sexuallity at the college/uni level...but that didn't work out) I will also say that many of the people who use these chat-R/P sites do it out of curiousity and would never think of doing it in real life. It's like Nil said, a freedom...a release of the mundane.

Many people, women mostly, need to be controlled, so they say. Some of them are not just subserviant in the bedroom but extend this to every day life. One woman I know has told me she dreams of meeting the right man so she can kneel obediantly at his feet...while watching TV together. She's what you'd think as an everyday normal happy-go-lucky person. But when it comes to men, well, I should say HER man, she completely submissive. I haven't seen her in quite some time. I wonder if she's happy now.

The men I've talked to, hetero and bisexual claim the same reasons with the varying intensities. Everyone, male and female I talked to makes the case for 'respect' and 'trust. On the other side of the coin, the men I've talked to mostly have the control issue. One of my best friends up north told me once he couldn't get a good erection unless his girl was tied up, which gave him complete control, but he had to untie her so they could 'do it'. I haven't seen him in quite some time either.

And one other woman I know very well said her sexual experiences were better fullfilled when she was restrained and pain involved. To submit to her partner totally in the bedroom with spanking (and I don't mean love taps) dripping candle wax, various pain instruments (nipple clamps and needles to name but a couple) while totally restrained gave her incredible orgasms. But she also takes the dominate roll as well depending on her mood at the time.

In all cases in my inquiries, it all comes down to the excitement of being in control or submissive and/or inflicting pain and/or receiving pain, yet extreme trust and respect factors heavily, with one exception. I have met one woman who told me she could care less who beat her or what he did to her as long as it hurt. She just loved it. Not to mention she was 22 years old and had a thing for older men, which I took as a come on and then I quickly changed the subject.

Just so you all know (as if any of you were interested), as for myself and this particular subject, I couldn't hurt a woman even if she asked me too. It would take a very special someone and some sort of external effect to get me to inflict pain on her. And I see no reason to tie up someone so totally in positions that would break MY back and inflict various amounts of pain. I reckon I have a different kind of respect.

Being in control or relequishing control is another matter. I think a lot of people switch back and forth depending on moods. To give up control is not the same as being submissive in this case. There's a fine line between complete 'slave' type submissiveness and allowing someone to dictate what tonights activity will be as it unfolds, whereas tomorrow nights activity could be 180 degrees different.

Still, Adora is right in that the internet created an outlet. Like the old 'swingers' magazines, the internet made easy conduits for all forms of sexual behaviour. Perhaps there was always such a need for this type of sex. Kinda like coming out of the closet, just don't use your real name.

[JoeP]

I used to be a necrophiliac, until some rotten cunt split on me

[Talulah]

I have lately begun to come to a different understanding of M/S issues. Most of it has to do with my own life and dabbling with pain, pleasure and humiliation. My first relationship was heavily infused with masochism. Funny thing was, we were both masochists, although she was more able to be the one dishing it out than I was. Then I started finding out more disturbing things. She wanted me to burn her and cut her and I just couldn't do it because I loved her, or thought I did at the time. Probably I did. At any rate, it lent me a new objective.

Then later on, searching for what I thought I needed I realized that it felt good and bad. That I hated myself afterwards so I called an end to that sort of "playing" and started working on overcoming what I felt was my perverse need for humiliation and pain. I have read many, many times that it is just an alternative lifestyle and "just the way you are" but I am not sure I believe that. I have no doubt it makes some happy but it was marking me in a way I didn't want to be marked. And it felt like an addiction I couldn't shake off. Each time I needed and wanted it more and I wanted it more intense. It is and was scary stuff.

I read this book the other day called "Spare the Child." http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679733388/qid=1091890767/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-1566218-2485618?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

It talks about what the author believes are the origins of sadomasochism - corporal punishment and the inherent sexual elements involved that religious parents deny to their last breath. It is very interesting, perhaps a little over-simplistic but definitely rings true in my life.

[pescifish]

I would be very very disappointed and frustrated in my own sexuality if the statement "I can't get excited unless xxx" applied to me as in: One of my best friends up north told me once he couldn't get a good erection unless his girl was tied up, which gave him complete control, but he had to untie her so they could 'do it'.

I can't make any guesses as to why it is so, but I agree with the OP's general issue and the sentiment
It makes me wonder what happened to enjoying just plain ole romantic sex? And before someone goes off on me for labeling "plain ole romantic sex" and yelling at me to define it...I think you all know what I mean, what within the context of the OP.

I kinda feel sorry for all the young folks who are already at a spot in their personal sexuality that they have to dig so deeply into their psyches to get excited, or range to far and wide on the spectrum of sexuality in order to still be interested. I mean, how tough will it be to be saying "yeah, been there, done that, ho hum" at the ripe ol' age of 22? I consider myself lucky to have had many years of interesting, incredibly satisfying and high quantity "plain ol' romantic" sex and I look forward to doing so again when/if I find myself in a relationship.

I agree with those who feel that the Internet gives that broad spectrum of sexuality more visibility (and perhaps permissibility/legitimacy) to more people. I also have a pet theory that we are building a whole generation of young people who tend to expend their sexual energies via online/fantasy/cybersex than actually get involved in physical relationships. I don't know what that's going to mean down the line when these 20-somethings find themselves in a real physical relationship and they are back in Jr. High School relative to actual physical experience and social development yet somewhere in eXXXtreme sex in their heads.

[Gawen]

I agree with those who feel that the Internet gives that broad spectrum of sexuality more visibility (and perhaps permissibility/legitimacy) to more people.

and

I also have a pet theory that we are building a whole generation of young people who tend to expend their sexual energies via online/fantasy/cybersex than actually get involved in physical relationships.I have thought the very same things. Many young people are able to become a 'different' person through the internet. They can do and say things they normally couldn't...or wouldn't. Or they are able to acheive a more meaningful psuedo-sexual lifestyle. And those that start out on the internet, when finally in a real meaningful relationship I think find it's not exactly what it's cracked up to be or not what they thought they were going to get or get to do.

Adults that have had real physical relationships are usually free and clear to exercise more mature choices in matters in most cases. Permissibilty and legitimacy in sexual fetishes comes under a few circumstances. Something as innocuous as toe-sucking can be just as revulsive to one person as being totally bound and gagged is to someone else. And on the internet, one may find whatever pleases them.

The 22 year old I mentioned above allowed a man she met on the internet from (I believe) Belgium to 'visit' her for a week. They both walked away satisfied. But she showed me pictures and although I looked at them, I simply could not fathom why a person would such a thing to someone else and even more so why she would let him do it to her. She's a very pretty girl. But after viewing these pictures, she could have done a couple days at hospital. This kind of abuse, and yes, even though it's consented, I call it abuse is not permissible or legitimate to me.

Then later on, searching for what I thought I needed I realized that it felt good and bad. That I hated myself afterwards so I called an end to that sort of "playing" and started working on overcoming what I felt was my perverse need for humiliation and pain. I have read many, many times that it is just an alternative lifestyle and "just the way you are" but I am not sure I believe that. I have no doubt it makes some happy but it was marking me in a way I didn't want to be marked. And it felt like an addiction I couldn't shake off. Each time I needed and wanted it more and I wanted it more intense. It is and was scary stuff. I have heard this many times. But in a way it is just the way they are. But it is learned. There are so many reasons why people look for ways to be humiliated, especially behind closed doors, where as long as no one is killed, it is permissible. It is an alternative sexual lifestyle. But those "playing" have that need or desire to "play" it. And the playing, many times, goes outside the rules or bounds as Talulah found out. Most people it seems, cannot find that line of demarcation, always needing to be more and more fulfilled.

Sex is a drug. The vast majority of us are addicted. But a few like to do the hard stuff. And lesser still are teatotallers. Those that cannot find the ultimate in a real relationship can find it on the internet, whatever their fantasies or fetishes are. But to me, it seems like a placebo. And the internet is the syringe.

[seebs]

I would point out that not all bottoms are subs. My wife likes to be tied to things, not because she's submissive, but so she can relax fully without being afraid of breaking fragile things, like, say, me. Your milage may vary. I know also some people who are just plain subs, and so on. Lots of variety.

[Goliath]

I also have a pet theory that we are building a whole generation of young people who tend to expend their sexual energies via online/fantasy/cybersex than actually get involved in physical relationships.


/me extends his hand..

Hello, I'm your first case study.


I don't know what that's going to mean down the line when these 20-somethings find themselves in a real physical relationship and they are back in Jr. High School relative to actual physical experience and social development yet somewhere in eXXXtreme sex in their heads.

In three words: it sucks ass.*

* - and no, not in a good way... :P

[Shake]

My observations and what I heard/read seem to imply that there is often some role-reversal going on. For instance, Shea talks about high-power business types liking the subservient role. I think it's because it's such a change. Here they are, all day making important decisions, setting direction, and giving commands. So, they enjoy a change where they are told what to do.

Likewise, you often hear about the quiet types, who really come out of their shells in the bedroom.

I can kind of see what the attraction would be, but it's not for me, though.

[Nil Desperandum]

With regards to the "quiet ones":

It is interesting to watch someone so invested in safe-guarding their intellect and emotions, only to turn around and to get backed up against a wall, hair-pulled, spanking, scratching, mild pain.

So secure about sex, yet so insecure about emotions and intellect.

Perhaps the invasiveness of sex in America's culture, and the onset of said invasion in the youth, is the reason people are more willing to talk about sex than what makes them happy.

I, of course, and more interested WHY someone wants to get tied up, as opposed to the actual tying. I get hornier knowing why they like it while I'm doing it.

Nerd talk?! Yeah, I recited pi to approximately 20 something digits during sex under a challenge, and my SO got horny. Really horny. *sigh* I didn't know quantum tunneling could be so erotic.

Chris

[Beth]

Nerd talk?! Yeah, I recited pi to approximately 20 something digits during sex under a challenge, and my SO got horny. Really horny. *sigh* I didn't know quantum tunneling could be so erotic.
Hehe, I think if my hubby did that, I would slap his face and tell him to shut up or mayhaps a gag...hmmmm

[Adora]

So secure about sex, yet so insecure about emotions and intellect.

Just because someone is guarded, doesn't mean they're insecure. Just because someone is unguarded, doesn't mean the same thing. The ritual of the pleasure/pain play could simply be a cover for a fear of true intimacy. It's impossible to tar these things with such a broad brush.

[LianaLi]

I agree with those who feel that the Internet gives that broad spectrum of sexuality more visibility (and perhaps permissibility/legitimacy) to more people. I also have a pet theory that we are building a whole generation of young people who tend to expend their sexual energies via online/fantasy/cybersex than actually get involved in physical relationships. I don't know what that's going to mean down the line when these 20-somethings find themselves in a real physical relationship and they are back in Jr. High School relative to actual physical experience and social development yet somewhere in eXXXtreme sex in their heads.

Yes, yes we are doing exactly that. Still, gotta go through the actual physical aspects of sexual relationships, before actually reaching the point where they are able to enact any of the more extremem fantasies. More often than not, they remain fantasies, and the internet remains just another source of information and venue to explore a topic that's been taboo for so long.

Although, an idea I ran across about the whole pain/pleasure issue intrigued me. Something I read suggested that the wiring between how pain and pleasure got cross wired. Like the classic pavlovian experiment, if you get both inputs at the same time (great orgasm, and oh, a nipple clamp) you begin to associate one with the other. However, trying to experience one without the other never contains the same intensity once the association's built. The extremities to which a person has this association however, can vary. Speaking from personal experience... damnit, it works. Still reeling from my first offical "just explosively good sex" relationship, and the fact that I'm sleeping with someone who's virtually a stranger to me. Damn hormones and libido.

Yes, I look at everything through a neural-psychological basis. I can't help it, I'm going to class in five minutes.

-Li