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TomJoe
04-09-2005, 06:20 PM
So, I was thinking of writing a piece about the potential/possible/probable (eventual) canonization of Pope John Paul II, and why I think this is a good thing. So I was browsing the net and came across this article by American Atheists entitled Pope Running "Saint Factory" (http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/vatican4.htm).

This article perplexed me. Why exactly, should the American Atheists give a rats ass as to what the Vatican is doing? I'm also appalled by the lack of evidence in their article. They bandy around a few unsubstantiated rumors, these "free thinkers", and a critical eye is nowhere to be found.

Plus, so what if the Pope is running a "Saint Factory"? Pope John Paul II made no bones about canonizing almost 500 saints during his quarter of a century plus, as Pope. The Pope has constantly spoken about the need for Catholics, especially youth, to have role models that they can emulate. What better choice than people who led faithful lives? Especially those who have recently "walked the walk". The Church isn't claiming these people were perfect (for instance, one person who may eventually become a saint, Dorothy Day, co-founder of the Catholic Worker, had an abortion before she became a Catholic), and many of them had led very ugly lives prior to their conversion (St. Paul was a murderer, right?), but rather ... they tried their hardest to live the Catholic call, and were more often than not, successful if not because of their own holiness, because of the grace of God.

Now, I know very few people here will believe that (you know, the whole grace of God thing), but why would anyone want to obsess about it? Is the Pope canonizing a person here or there a reason for atheists to be upset? I wouldn't really think so ... so what am I missing here? Please enlighten me.

viscousmemories
04-09-2005, 07:35 PM
I only skimmed that article but I couldn't find any obvious relevance it has to atheism as an idea, worldview or movement. I'm only an atheist by literal definition and I think the worldview is ill-defined. American Atheists is a movement, and I can't speak to their interests or motivations.

Crumb
04-09-2005, 07:48 PM
According to the AA website (http://www.atheists.org/visitors.center/intro.html#primary) they have three "primary goals":


1. TO SECURE OUR FREEDOM FROM RELIGION.

2. TO LABOR FOR, IN ALL LAWFUL WAYS, THE COMPLETE AND ABSOLUTE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

3. TO DEFEND THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF ATHEISTS.


This doesn't seem to fall in line with any of them. This kind of stuff just lends fuel to the theists idea that atheists are anti religion, have something against god, or somehow feel threatened by religion. Internal church politics are almost entirely irrelevant to an atheist. I find it very unfortunate that an atheist organization has chosen to post things like this.

Shake
04-13-2005, 03:51 AM
But of course, the latest is that there is already pressure building for the next pope to begin the sainthood process for JPII.

livius drusus
04-13-2005, 12:52 PM
From what I can see, it's a rehashing of a Daily Telegraph article on the topic. That's the only source mentioned, at least. I couldn't find the original with a quick Google, but I'd be very curious to do a side by side comparison of the DT and AA versions.

Like Crumb, I don't see how sneering at internal Church matters advances AA's stated goals in the least.

wei yau
04-13-2005, 03:11 PM
As an American atheist, I have to agree with what everyone else is saying here, I don't see why this is relevant to being an atheist.

I guess this is what happens when issues become overly-polarized. Some people get to the point where *everything* done by the "opposition" is wrong. I fail to see what purpose this serves.

Crumb
04-13-2005, 05:34 PM
Maybe we should send the AA a link to this thread...

TomJoe
04-13-2005, 06:42 PM
This kind of stuff just lends fuel to the theists idea that atheists are anti religion, have something against god, or somehow feel threatened by religion.

I concur. For a group that so badly wants to be free and separate from religion, they sure do want to spend a fair amount of time bitching about the internal workings of one of the largest religious groups on the planet. Makes no sense to me.