Couples counseling: What to expect?

[SharonDee]

Yeah, see that thread title? That's my question up there.

The Hubster and I have issues, largely of communication. I managed to talk him into going to couples counseling with me, even though he was skeptical. But now that he's agreed and the appointment has been made, I don't know how it's supposed to work.

Does one of us speak first? Seems to me that would lead the counselor to work only from that person's point of view.

Do we let the counselor start it off by asking questions? My fear is her first question will be to Hubster: "Why were you so afraid you'd get a counselor who would advise you to become a Christian?" (He really did insist on my finding an atheist counselor, even when I tried to tell him it wouldn't be necessary to ensure a fair shake. Of course, he was drunk at the time.) I don't want the session to be about this particular weird idea of his when, IMO, he has so many weird ideas.

Anyway, I guess I'm just nervous and would like to know what to expect. Also, Hubster might like to know although he hasn't wondered aloud to me.

So... like... help?

(Oh, and if I was dumb enough to put this in the wrong forum I won't be offended when it's moved. Really.)

[HelenM]

Yeah, see that thread title? That's my question up there.

The Hubster and I have issues, largely of communication. I managed to talk him into going to couples counseling with me, even though he was skeptical. But now that he's agreed and the appointment has been made, I don't know how it's supposed to work.

Does one of us speak first? Seems to me that would lead the counselor to work only from that person's point of view.

Do we let the counselor start it off by asking questions? My fear is her first question will be to Hubster: "Why were you so afraid you'd get a counselor who would advise you to become a Christian?" (He really did insist on my finding an atheist counselor, even when I tried to tell him it wouldn't be necessary to ensure a fair shake. Of course, he was drunk at the time.) I don't want the session to be about this particular weird idea of his when, IMO, he has so many weird ideas.

Anyway, I guess I'm just nervous and would like to know what to expect. Also, Hubster might like to know although he hasn't wondered aloud to me.

So... like... help?

(Oh, and if I was dumb enough to put this in the wrong forum I won't be offended when it's moved. Really.)

A good counselor will try to put you at ease rather than jumping in with a "Why?" question early on. He/she will understand that both of you may well be a little uncomfortable and/or nervous. If he/she asks questions in early sessions, it will be to get to know you rather than to put either of you 'on the spot'.

If one of you is doing more talking, a good counselor will ask the other one what he/she thinks so that he/she understands both points of view. There should not be a sense that the counselor is favoring one partner's POV over the other's.

That's my experience, anyway.

Helen

[CARLA]

SharonDee,

I'm not married so I really can't speak to this issues. I will say that communication of any kind, even in counseling has to be a good thing. I hope it works for you and HUBSTER. :yup: Got give it a try... :crossed: :goodidea:

[SharonDee]

If one of you is doing more talking, a good counselor will ask the other one what he/she thinks so that he/she understands both points of view.Thank you for giving us the benefit of your experience, Helen. What you say makes sense given the little one-on-one counseling I have received in the past.

I just can't see how that works with two people; I guess I'll find out Thursday afternoon. What I'm most afraid of is that Hubster will give up on the experiment without giving it a fair shake.

I hope it works for you and HUBSTER. Thanks, Carla. I'm hopeful, too. :yup:

[HelenM]

Thank you for giving us the benefit of your experience, Helen. What you say makes sense given the little one-on-one counseling I have received in the past.

I just can't see how that works with two people; I guess I'll find out Thursday afternoon.

I'd say the point is that both partners are there and so there's no reason why the counselor should be getting only partner's perspective. A good counselor will be quietly observing whether one partner is getting to say a lot more than the other and will redress the balance by asking the other partner direct questions, if appropriate. Sometimes it can be very helpful for you to hear your partner's answers to the counselor, with whom he/she has not built up a pattern of defensiveness, or whatever disfunctional communication patterns may exist at home. So it's not necessarily unhelpful or unfair to the more outspoken spouse if the counselor tries to draw out the quieter one.

What I'm most afraid of is that Hubster will give up on the experiment without giving it a fair shake.

Unfortunately for you it's entirely his decision whether he sticks at it or not. It may partly depend on whether he likes the counselor, but even the best counselor in the world can't keep a spouse there who decides he doesn't want to be there. Hopefully he will do it 'for you' for a little while even if he thinks it's a waste of time.

And even if he does quit there are things you can do. You could continue to see the counselor alone - who will by then have some idea of what your husband is like and can help you figure out what you can do to enhance communication between the two of you. There may be things you can do which will improve communications between you, as he sees differences and you avoid his 'triggers' and so he responds appreciatively and in ways which you prefer.

Also, after I posted to you last night I thought of a marriage book I often recommend, because I really like it, called "Love is Never Enough" by Aaron Beck (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060916044/qid=1113148657/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/102-3507451-0493751?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). It's mostly about communication in marriage and how to make it better. What I love about this marriage book is that it didn't do what I hate in some others i.e. talk down to me or focus on things like putting love notes under his pillow or in his briefcase, or make a huge deal of how men are soooooo different from women - etc. This book was straightforward and interesting and helpful. It's a secular book as I recall. My husband thought it was good too; we both read it.

Anyway, best wishes for Thursday. I hope your husband will stick at it, but don't despair if not, because it's quite possible that from what you learn, you can initiate changes that will result in him changing his communication style also.

Helen

[LadyShea]

In my couples counseling experiences, the counselor simply facilitated communication between us. He/she tries to set up a comfortable space where each spouse can say what's on their mind without getting blown up at, walked out on, not listened to, or whatever the situation is that prohibits good communication when the two are alone.

You may be asked to write down things in private to be shared at your next session. For example, one time hubby and I wrote down some life goals to compare to see how they could be melded (in our case they were identical). In another excercise, we were asked to write down the traits we felt our "perfect" fantasy partner would possess, then compare the list to the traits possessed by our partner (again, ours turned out that we each were close to "perfect").

What we learned overall, in just a few sessions, was that we could do these things on our own, if we simply set aside some time and laid out "ground rules" for the discussions. The counselor simply helped us form guidelines for our own communications. Problems still arise, of course, but maybe just getting both of you talking will allow you to address the problems.

[viscousmemories]

All the counselling I've been through has been one-on-one or group, never couples, so I don't have any advice for you. But it's nice to see you around and good luck, Sharon. :)

[kensloft]

I didn't realize that this was a for real thread and the jokes that I was formulating are out of place. Having been to counselling, though, I would say that a good counsellor will allow you to see each other without the defense mechanisms that you both have created. Listen, be up front and say what you want and need to say. Good luck and all the best to both of you.

[seebs]

I've had one counselor try to "witness" to me, but it's unusual.

We did a fair bit of counseling, for various reasons. Mostly, the counselor will act as an arbitrator, helping you get issues out, taking them down, and very occasionally saying "well, you say X, but your spouse said Y, do you think these are related". Lots of things where, say, you say something, and then counselor asks spouse "and how do you feel about that"...

If you get a good counselor, it's amazing.

YOU MAY NOT GET A GOOD COUNSELOR ON THE FIRST TRY.

Be willing to try again. Don't expect instant results.

[SharonDee]

Helen, thanks for elaborating on your earlier advice and for the book recommendation. I'd buy it but experience has shown that non-fiction books are always bought by me with the best of intentions, only to languish unread on the bookshelf or the end table. :deepsigh:

Thanks, ladyshea, for relating your experiences with couples counseling. What you're saying is pretty much what I was hoping would be the case. Weird thing is that since making the appointment Hubster has finally told me (communicated!) what his problem with me is. Now I wonder if seeing the counselor is still necessary.

And thanks, kensloft, for your advice. But now I'm wondering what possible jokes you could've had in that head of yours. :P

(Hi, vm! My drama queen side is happy my absence was noticed by someone. :wink:)

YOU MAY NOT GET A GOOD COUNSELOR ON THE FIRST TRY.

Be willing to try again. Don't expect instant results.
Thanks, seebs. I know this and I have been lucky when going the one-on-one route. Both times I got a counselor I could relate to on the first go round. But then, I'm told that I get along well with people.

But if Hubster sees even one misstep (by his own definition of one; he somehow got the idea that the counselor will consider herself more intelligent than him) then he is out of there before the hour is up. Come to think of it, though, I think this first session will probably be his last no matter how it goes. He has no confidence in this whole seeking-help-through-an-outside-party thing.

[livius drusus]

(Hi, vm! My drama queen side is happy my absence was noticed by someone.:wink: )

Hey! It was totally noticed be more than one someone. It was in fact discussed with much regret by at least two someones. :bigglomp:

Best of luck to you and hubby on the counselling, Sharon. I hope he doesn't feel patronized or talked down to at all in that first session. Sometimes therapeutic detachment can come off like that, and I get the feeling he might see that as "she thinks she's smarter than me" and be totally turned off to the process.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. :crossed:

[HelenM]

Helen, thanks for elaborating on your earlier advice and for the book recommendation. I'd buy it but experience has shown that non-fiction books are always bought by me with the best of intentions, only to languish unread on the bookshelf or the end table. :deepsigh:

I understand to some extent, but - with all due respect - this is not any non-fiction book. This is a book about improving communication in marriage, which is precisely what you said your marriage problem is. If you knew it would help your marriage, you'd read it, wouldn't you? Of course I can't guarantee you that it will, but it did help us.

Perhaps you could try reading the first few pages online and see what you think; you can get to them as follows:

If you go to the link I gave, roll your mouse over the book picture and click on "read first page", it gives you a scan of the first page's text. Then you can go on and read the next four or five pages using the "next page" link just above or below the scan of the first page. That way you can get an idea of whether it's compelling enough/seems helpful enough to buy.

If your husband is reluctant to do much counseling and you like the sample pages of Love Is Never Enough, maybe you could ask whether he'd at least read the book with you instead of doing nothing at all.

Obviously these are only suggestions and I won't be offended if you don't like any of them. It's just...well, if I have a big problem, I'd like to think I'll try anything within reason to fix it. And I'd like to think that if the problem is serious enough I'd be somewhat open to trying things that haven't worked well for me before, or don't seem likely to work, just in case they do work this time. (Which I realize is exactly what you'd like to see re: your husband and counseling!)

Helen

[LadyShea]

Thanks, ladyshea, for relating your experiences with couples counseling. What you're saying is pretty much what I was hoping would be the case. Weird thing is that since making the appointment Hubster has finally told me (communicated!) what his problem with me is. Now I wonder if seeing the counselor is still necessary.

"What his problem is with you" isn't very encouraging. What about your problems with him? Why did it take this for him to communicate?

If you do not go to counseling I would at least read the book Helen suggested and have a long, long sit down.

[SharonDee]

(Hi, vm! My drama queen side is happy my absence was noticed by someone.:wink: )Hey! It was totally noticed be more than one someone. It was in fact discussed with much regret by at least two someones. :bigglomp:
Aw, I feel so loved now. :blush3: I was spending way too much time online and since this was where I spent the majority of it, I cut it out for a while. That's when I found myself lurking at IIDB again so the net result was that I was still spending too much time online. Now can you help me break the IIDB habit? :D

I hope he doesn't feel patronized or talked down to at all in that first session. Sometimes therapeutic detachment can come off like that, and I get the feeling he might see that as "she thinks she's smarter than me" and be totally turned off to the process.
Ah, that hadn't occurred to me, although it should have. Duh. I'll see if I can quell his fears with it.

Thanks, liv.

[SharonDee]

I'd buy it but experience has shown that non-fiction books are always bought by me with the best of intentions, only to languish unread on the bookshelf or the end table. :deepsigh:I understand to some extent, but - with all due respect - this is not any non-fiction book. This is a book about improving communication in marriage, which is precisely what you said your marriage problem is. If you knew it would help your marriage, you'd read it, wouldn't you? Of course I can't guarantee you that it will, but it did help us.Yeah, you'd think I would treat this differently from other nonfiction books. But I bought Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380810336/104-9463483-7579911?v=glance) years ago and I still haven't gotten through it, even though it came highly recommended from sufferers of depression. No matter how much good it'll do me, I lack the discipline to read unless it's fiction or online text (message boards, blogs, news, etc.). Anyway, I tried the read-sample-pages feature the first time I visited the link and it looked familiar. Maybe you've recommended this book before. :)

As for recommending it to the Hubster, I think he'll laugh it off. But I won't assume that (communicate, communicate!) and I'll suggest it to him.

Obviously these are only suggestions and I won't be offended if you don't like any of them. It's just...well, if I have a big problem, I'd like to think I'll try anything within reason to fix it. Yep, I get what you're saying and that is a big problem with me. I lack the stick-to-it-iveness to see things through, even with big issues like my marriage or my job. I start out working on the problem and fall into the "oh, what's the use" trap when it gets tough. It's a long habit that I have had difficulty breaking. You should have seen the tears I cried over simple household maintenance this weekend, all the times I threw the cleaning implement down and stalked off.

No, actually, I'm glad you weren't there to see that. It was embarrassing and pathetic. :sadcheer:

Anyway, thanks again for your advice, Helen.

[SharonDee]

Weird thing is that since making the appointment Hubster has finally told me (communicated!) what his problem with me is. Now I wonder if seeing the counselor is still necessary."What his problem is with you" isn't very encouraging. What about your problems with him? Why did it take this for him to communicate?Hmm... that did sound pretty bad, didn't it? I'll clarify: The whole reason I wanted couples counseling was because something was bugging him and he wasn't telling me. He'd just throw vague accusations and insults at me when drunk. What I wanted to know was, "What am I doing to piss you off? What is your problem with 'us'?" Now I know, so what's left for a counselor to do? :dunno: I'm not canceling the appointment, though. Getting him to go was a big concession and I doubt I'll get him to agree again. Must make hay while the sun shines, you know.

If you do not go to counseling I would at least read the book Helen suggested and have a long, long sit down.Yeah, I should probably do that. You're both right.

Thanks, LadyShea.

[HelenM]

Yeah, you'd think I would treat this differently from other nonfiction books. But I bought Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0380810336/104-9463483-7579911?v=glance) years ago and I still haven't gotten through it, even though it came highly recommended from sufferers of depression. No matter how much good it'll do me, I lack the discipline to read unless it's fiction or online text (message boards, blogs, news, etc.). Anyway, I tried the read-sample-pages feature the first time I visited the link and it looked familiar. Maybe you've recommended this book before. :)

Probably :)

Fwiw, I didn't really enjoy reading Feeling Good (even though it makes some good points); I found Love Is Never Enough to be much more interesting and 'at my level'. Just so you know. But I won't bug you about reading Love Is Never Enough anymore! :)

As for recommending it to the Hubster, I think he'll laugh it off. But I won't assume that (communicate, communicate!) and I'll suggest it to him.

It definitely is hard when your husband doesn't share your desire to work on the marriage (or agrees it could be better but believes that's all your fault) :(

Yep, I get what you're saying and that is a big problem with me. I lack the stick-to-it-iveness to see things through, even with big issues like my marriage or my job. I start out working on the problem and fall into the "oh, what's the use" trap when it gets tough. It's a long habit that I have had difficulty breaking. You should have seen the tears I cried over simple household maintenance this weekend, all the times I threw the cleaning implement down and stalked off.

I'm not surprised - it's very hard to do anything when you're seriously upset over something.

No, actually, I'm glad you weren't there to see that. It was embarrassing and pathetic. :sadcheer:

I hope I would have given you a hug and told you I'd been there too - well, to some extent.

Anyway, thanks again for your advice, Helen.

I hope I didn't come across as too pushy this morning. It's just that - I know I have to push myself hard sometimes to get the results I want. Sometimes I rise to the challenge and at other times it defeats me. I think that's part of being human.

I hope that you can get closer to the marriage you'd love to have, no matter how you get there.

Helen

[SharonDee]

So we went this afternoon and got counseled. It didn't hurt too much. At the end of it I asked Hubster if he'd learned anything. "Yeah. I didn't realize that I intimidated you. You know that I would never lay a hand on you." I was surprised at having to explain to him that intimidation isn't always about physical threats.

Anyway, we were both on our best behaviors today, calmly talking about us and answering the counselor's questions. And we were more attentive and loving to each other as we left her office. So it's been a success thus far.

When the counselor suggested I might need to go back on antidepressants and that I might possibly need medication for ADD, Hubster bristled. He's got a huge problem with the "better living through chemistry" mindset and I must admit I have reservations there, too. So even though she referred me to several psychiatrists, I'll probably hold off on that for a little while.

We have another appointment next week. Hubster says he's willing to go to that one, too, which surprised me. Today I learned that I don't have Hubster pigeon-holed as well as I'd thought.

And that's the report; at least as much as I'm willing to make public.

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice and/or moral support. :wave:

[viscousmemories]

Congratulations, Sharon. I'm glad it went well for you. :)

I understand the reluctance to use mind/mood altering drugs but if you're discontent without them, what've you got to lose? Just my 1 cent.

[pescifish]

And that's the report; at least as much as I'm willing to make public.Thanks for posting tonight, SharonDee! I was thinking about you this evening while driving home and hoped you would let us know tonight. Well, actually, I was hoping you might still be up and in the chatroom. I miss my chatroom buddy! :P

It sounds promising and that's great that your husband is willing to continue (at least for next week...). Even a few sessions could help build up communication skills/tricks for both of you.

I'm with vm about the meds, too, but I can understand your misgivings.

[livius drusus]

Congratulations, Sharon. It really sounds like y'all achieved as good as a result as anyone could hope for. :hug:

[HelenM]

So we went this afternoon and got counseled. It didn't hurt too much.

:D

Seriously, though - it is scary, because you don't know what you might hear from your spouse... :eek:

At the end of it I asked Hubster if he'd learned anything. "Yeah. I didn't realize that I intimidated you. You know that I would never lay a hand on you." I was surprised at having to explain to him that intimidation isn't always about physical threats.

Anyway, we were both on our best behaviors today, calmly talking about us and answering the counselor's questions. And we were more attentive and loving to each other as we left her office. So it's been a success thus far.

That's wonderful news, SharonDee :). I'm glad your husband was aware of learning something, too. Hopefully that will encourage him to believe counseling is not a waste of time!

When the counselor suggested I might need to go back on antidepressants and that I might possibly need medication for ADD, Hubster bristled. He's got a huge problem with the "better living through chemistry" mindset and I must admit I have reservations there, too. So even though she referred me to several psychiatrists, I'll probably hold off on that for a little while.

Actually, this isn't too bad a situation because whatever you decide, someone is on your side :P And it's best when it's your husband, which it seems to be at present.

From the counselor's point of view, it's not surprising that she'd mention meds; it would probably be remiss of her not to. However, I agree with you in having reservations; I see meds as one way of treating certain mental health issues; imo, they aren't the only way and they don't tend to work effectively anyway unless taken in conjunction with making other changes in your life. So, seeing if those other changes might be enough without meds seems reasonable to me. Especially since your husband supports your not taking them.

One thought: I'm not speaking as an expert, but I do know from experience that stress and depression make it hard to focus; so, perhaps if you feel better, the ADD problems might lessen?

We have another appointment next week. Hubster says he's willing to go to that one, too, which surprised me.

Great!

Today I learned that I don't have Hubster pigeon-holed as well as I'd thought.

Which probably gives you more hope :)

And that's the report; at least as much as I'm willing to make public.

Feel free to share only as much as you want - after all, this is really between you and your husband. We don't need to hear details to be supportive.

Thanks to everyone who gave me advice and/or moral support. :wave:

I'm so glad the first session went well :) I hope next week's does also!

Helen