I don't wanna have a regular Thanksgiving! [Archive]

LadyShea

11-12-2010, 05:38 PM

There are no volunteer opportunities in my are for T-Giving but I don't want to do the traditional dinner thing. Kiddo needs to understand gratitude and giving, but is mostly hearing the holiday "get" message and, because he's 4, that's what he is internalizing.

Last night, as a way to get him to prioritize so I could then prioritize for the umpteen family members that buy for him, I asked him what he wanted most for Christmas, if he could only have one thing...he busts out that he will just ask Santa Clause for whatever we aren't willing to get him. We have never set him up to think of Santa that way...as the go to gift giver...yet he has the concept! He got it from family members, I am sure, but when I mention to hubby that I am bothered he blows me off or calls me anti-social for wanting to minimize shit to our immediate family.

Anyway so now I am kind of pissed and even more determined to do something else for Thanksgiving. I am considering spending the whole day going around to family/friends and giving them a card and a goody (cookies or sweet potato bread or something) and having Kiddo personally thank them for all they do for him. Then I think I am punishing him rather than teaching him, but the fucking mixed messages the kid gets are driving me insane. I don't know what to do.

ceptimus

11-12-2010, 06:16 PM

You could go feed the ducks (or whatever wildlife you have in your area that it's appropriate to feed). Kiddo would enjoy that and he'd be giving for Thanksgiving instead of just receiving.

Qingdai

11-12-2010, 06:17 PM

You could do what we do, ignore it.

LadyShea

11-12-2010, 06:32 PM

You could do what we do, ignore it.

That is the one thing I find I really, really, really hate about living near family and having a kid...and what has been causing me a lot of stress for the last 5 years. For over a decade when we were childless and in Las Vegas we did whatever we wanted, no obligations or expectations for the holidays. Thanksgiving might find us in a casino or at Disneyland, drinking Irish coffees all day playing video games, or even cooking a turkey and trimmings with friends.

That doesn't seem to work with Kiddo in the picture and all family members in shouting distance.

Charmion

11-12-2010, 06:43 PM

Just pick up a copy of The New Doubleday Cookbook and you'll be fine.

The New Doubleday Cookbook - Freethought Forum (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23929)

SharonDee

11-12-2010, 07:11 PM

That is the one thing I find I really, really, really hate about living near family and having a kid...OMG, I feel for you here. Except I was in my early 20s when I had my young 'un. I had ju-u-u-ust gotten my parents to accept that I was an adult living her own life and to stop trying to hog all my time. Then BANG: husband. BANG: child. BANG: "Give that baby to her granny!"

Now I spend a lot of time with the fam because we're all getting old and I'm independent with no dependents again.

Did I have a point?

Oh, I love spending time with the fam and am amused to watch my daughter now juggling the "which family do I spend time with" ball. DO NOT MISS.

LadyShea

11-12-2010, 07:17 PM

I love spending time with the family, what I hate is the expectations and feelings of obligation. Just like when we were newlyweds and still called "the kids" and had the whole big bullshit over who got us for which holiday.

Now, if people invited us to join them rather than expected us to join them, I would probably feel a whole lot better. If that makes sense, which it prolly doesn't

Moving away for so many years spoiled me in that aspect.

SharonDee

11-12-2010, 07:20 PM

Now, if people invited us to join them rather than expected us to join them, I would probably feel a whole lot better. If that makes sense, which it prolly doesn't.No, it makes perfect sense. I know that if I called my mom and said, "Hey, I'm not coming down for Thanksgiving or Christmas," she'd be all "WHY NOT?! WHAT'S WRONG?!"

Because yeah, I'm not invited; I'm expected.

Sadly, that's Family Proximity 101.

Ensign Steve

11-12-2010, 07:23 PM

I love spending time with the family, what I hate is the expectations and feelings of obligation. Just like when we were newlyweds and still called "the kids" and had the whole big bullshit over who got us for which holiday.
It's bad enough that they are acting in ways that make you feel that way, but you don't need to allow them to make you feel that way. You can't help what they expect, but you are in 100% control of what you are obligated to do, on account of you are an adult and a parent of the kid. Please don't let family spoil your holidays in this way. Try to recapture your attitude of before. Do exactly what you and kiddo want to do, and if anybody else wants to participate, they can do it on your terms. Everybody that matters will have a better holiday that way.

Now, if people invited us to join them rather than expected us to join them, I would probably feel a whole lot better. If that makes sense, which it prolly doesn't
Makes perfect sense to me. I haven't seen either of my dads or one of my granddads in over 10 years because I adopted a policy of, "I will come over when you invite me, and no 'come over any time' doesn't count." It sucks to be estranged from people that I love because of this, but I figure if they really cared, they'd figure it out. I don't see that being a problem for you, because I imagine they care enough about Kiddo to make the effort.

Moving away for so many years spoiled me in that aspect.
If it makes you feel any better (in a "the grass is always greener" kind of way), I am super homesick this holiday. I love that I don't have to do anything for Thanksgiving, but I'm bummed that I don't get to do anything.

LadyShea

11-12-2010, 07:27 PM

Do exactly what you and kiddo want to do, and if anybody else wants to participate, they can do it on your terms.
Oh because hubby isn't on board. We came up with some ugly bastard of a compromise for Christmas but he still doesn't get it.

It sometimes takes me years to get him to the point of understanding my actual point, involving feelers and stuff, rather than the "problem to solve" he initially sees.

Ensign Steve

11-12-2010, 07:28 PM

Oh, in that case, I'm sorry. Then make him figure it all out! :P

LadyShea

11-12-2010, 07:31 PM

lol
I was mostly venting because I can't get my point across to the penised person

yguy

11-12-2010, 07:38 PM

I am considering spending the whole day going around to family/friends ... and having Kiddo personally thank them for all they do for him. Then I think I am punishing him rather than teaching him,I can hardly think of a better way to turn a child into an ingrate than to make him express gratitude he doesn't feel.

wei yau

11-12-2010, 08:16 PM

I can hardly think of a better way to turn a child into an ingrate ...

Oh maybe you're not trying hard enough.

1. Give birth in a manger and lavish the kid with all the myrrh he can handle

LadyShea

11-12-2010, 08:18 PM

It's not even developmentally appropriate for him to feel and express gratitude in a sophisticated way yet, yguy. It's one of those things we learn along with empathy.

ETA: Thanks for reminding me of that fact. I had unreasonable expectations of him for his age

Ensign Steve

11-12-2010, 08:20 PM

Most of us, anyway.

lisarea

11-12-2010, 08:23 PM

I can hardly think of a better way to turn a child into an ingrate ...

Oh maybe you're not trying hard enough.

1. Give birth in a manger and lavish the kid with all the myrrh he can handle

2. Get them one of these:

http://www.jacksonvillemag.com/blogs/media/blogs/Specktator/hummer-kids.jpg

yguy

11-12-2010, 10:21 PM

It's not even developmentally appropriate for him to feel and express gratitude in a sophisticated way yet, yguy. It's one of those things we learn along with empathy.Expressions thereof aside, gratitude is not learned, nor is there anything sophisticated about it. Children are naturally egotistical, but the capacity for gratitude germinates, so to speak, the first time they realize they've been given, with good intent, something they need or want - and of course that realization cannot occur when an expression of gratitude is required by an overbearing authority figure.

LadyShea

11-12-2010, 10:25 PM

Naru

11-12-2010, 10:37 PM

yguy is an everything expert.

Qingdai

11-12-2010, 10:46 PM

He's a constitutional child development expert.

Ask for his certifications next.

LadyShea

11-12-2010, 10:47 PM

Yeah, I guess I can disregard all the studies and literature on emotional development, I have yguy!

Ymir's blood

11-12-2010, 10:59 PM

You could do what we do, ignore it.
I've got to be in Raleigh for work on the Tuesday following T-Day. At first I was all pissed because it meant either staying down there for a long time between the holiday and the work thing, or else driving down and back and down and back. Then it came to me. I don't actually have to suffer Thanksgiving this year! I go down on Sunday and satisfy the parents with the big meal... but the stores and everything will be open so it means NOT being stuck with my relatives all day! Hell, the relatives may not even be there! :slide:

yguy

11-13-2010, 12:24 AM

You are a child development expert?I leave that for others to figure out.

Yeah, I guess I can disregard all the studies and literature on emotional developmentWouldn't hurt.

Ari

11-13-2010, 12:39 AM

You can have kiddo participate in the baking of the cookies you might hand out. Designate one batch the home batch and another the family batch because they should enjoy your cookies too.

Then you can be mean and tell him that he shouldn't give any to Auntie ____ (who pissed you off) because she doesn't need anymore and get him repeating that all night long at thanksgiving.
Afterall, what's the point of kids if you can't be passive aggressive through them?

lol
I was mostly venting because I can't get my point across to the penised person
I hear knives help with this problem.

erimir

11-13-2010, 01:22 AM

Some of my friends and I are doing Thanksgayving, the weekend before.

Some of my friends don't really get along with their parents/are estranged from them (for various reasons).

Not sure how this helps, but you don't have to do Thanksgiving with your family if you don't want to. I still enjoy the food tho, personally.

But I actually kinda agree with yguy that making him say thanks for things he doesn't feel might not be the best idea... But if you could get only the sincere expressions, it could be a good idea (something like, asking him who he'd like to thank).

viscousmemories

11-13-2010, 01:24 AM

Then I think I am punishing him
I swear to god I initially read this as "...then I'm thinking of punishing him" and I was all HOLY CRAP THAT'S COLD! Make him go around thanking people then punish him for it.

Anyway, the roomie is going back to Michigan for Thanksgiving so I'm going to volunteer for the first time this year.

Ronin

11-13-2010, 03:41 AM

Here's an opportunity that we help out with as often as possible throughout the year:

Bay Area Food Bank (http://www.bayareafoodbank.org/uploadedFiles/File/VolunteerBrochureFinal2010.pdf)

Additionally, our family and humanist group will again be participating in the Harrison County Feed the Needy Thanksgiving Event, packaging and delivering meals to those who request them. As a result of having a good working knowledge of the community, we finish up the morning by bringing hot meals directly to the homeless.

Personally, I love the whole tradition and stay cloistered in the kitchen most of the rest of the day cooking up all the traditional dishes along with the vegetarian supplements I've come to know...for my bleeding heart, animal loving, tree hugging adorable daughter.

Ronin

11-13-2010, 03:58 AM

But I actually kinda agree with yguy that making him say thanks for things he doesn't feel might not be the best idea... But if you could get only the sincere expressions, it could be a good idea (something like, asking him who he'd like to thank).

Yeah, making anyone do something is, in my view, just wrong.

We enjoy Thanksgiving day by following our own family tradition and meal.

Ours is to have a combination of vegetarian offerings along with a small turkey and all of the fixings.

Before we eat, when everyone is gathered around the table for the feasting, we each then share what we are most thankful for that year...oh, and they don't know it yet, but this year we'll start the newest tradition...kids do the dishes, or KdtD, for those tweeting or updating their Facebook status.

Connor, the youngest, usually says "Oh, I don't know".

Mostly he likes to battle his friend Mikey while playing Jedi Warriors.

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/gallery/files/3/3/connor_and_mikey.jpg

Qingdai

11-13-2010, 04:07 AM

I still enjoy the holiday "avoiding the relatives game" see the trick is to make sure they don't talk to each other, then you tell them that this holiday you are going to the other's house for Thanksgiving. You'd invite them and all, but it's not your house and after the knifing penis incident, it's really best you spend time apart.

The down side is that eventually you have to see one of them.

chunksmediocrites

11-13-2010, 04:19 AM

We don't quite ignore Thanksgiving, as Qingdai wrote earlier. Instead we give thanks we have the day off and thanks that we don't have to:
Spend a dayoff building a massive meal if we don't want to, or;
Spend time with relations in a Thanksgiving where it feels forced and imposed and as soon as the angry cook is done yelling at everybody and her dogs and as soon as we eat pie at the end we ( and any others) can scramble for the door and drive home, or;
Spend time feeling guilty or obligated.
So instead we get Chinese take-out and watch movies, and relax; that's our tradition. Sometimes we do it with others; this year with my sister and brother-in-law, and we're going to watch Addam's Family Values I think, or at least one of the Addams movies with Christina Ricci as Wednesday.

Not to be knocking the familial get-together events that people actually enjoy.

Ronin

11-13-2010, 04:20 AM

Follow your bliss.

Thanks for sharing your tradition.

:wave:

LadyShea

11-13-2010, 05:04 AM

Well, we're having a regular Thanksgiving. And we are also making goodies to hand out...it's not a forced thing, more of a "Let's do something nice for all these people". Since presents aren't normally exchanged for this holiday, it can be all about the giving without expectation of receiving.

Gonzo

11-13-2010, 08:12 AM

lol
I was mostly venting because I can't get my point across to the penised person

Point taken. :blank:

Janet

11-13-2010, 05:55 PM

I had to fight my mother to have Thanksgiving my way this year. She was planning to go to one of my brothers' houses with one of my other brothers. So I make plans to cook dinner with my sister and a friend, like I did last year with just the friend when my sister drove her down. Then I hear my brother isn't driving down so she has invited him to my dinner along with herself.

See, she had just assumed that now that she was staying in town it had become her Thanksgiving and we were just satellites orbiting around her. Luckily my sister was wrong and I got to her before she talked to my brother and explained that my friend would feel uncomfortable suddenly being the odd-person out in a family gathering. So she and my brother's family are having a stuffed chicken at her house and I am still making turkey for the three of us. RESULT!

It was actually a lot easier than when I gave up Christmas years ago. Although that went in steps. First I stopped going to Christmas dinner at her house because she goes stress nuts and drives me crazy. Then a few years later I gave up celebrating Christmas altogether. She still fights that a bit and asks me to join them at my sister's place, but when they get home they always say I made the right decision to stay away.

lisarea

11-13-2010, 07:17 PM

I stopped going to my parents' for Thanksgiving and other holidays by default when LM was a toddler. In part because I figured that we were a family, and we'd do our own holidays, just like my family did when I was a kid; and in other part, because I didn't want holidays to become some big stressful social obligation. This later changed, after my dad died and my mother asked me to take over Thanksgiving, so for a while, I'd host really gigantic parties with my family and a bunch of friends. Those were always really fun, too; but there's a lot to be said for having a quiet little holiday with just immediate family.

I'd think that if your extended family is nearby, you can see them any time, so there should be less obligation, not more.