whats kentucky like?

[roastelk]

seems to be a lot of Americans on this forum, figured I'd ask

I'll be overseeing the installation of some machinery in a Louisville factory. its a couple week job, then its back home to Canada.

[Dingfod]

http://www.classiccarsproject.com/img-classic-cars/banjo-boy-billy-redden-in-deliverance-autograph-8x10_290357913094.jpg

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

Louisville is a lovely city. If you send me your email, I'll pass it on to a friend who's a native.

[Deadlokd]

There's horses, grass and fried chicken.

And yokels.

[roastelk]

dingfod, no problem in that aria. I'm not particularity fond of squealing like a pig, so I don't intend to take any canoe trips into remote rural arias.


dead, we have horses, grass, fried chicken, and yokels up here in Alberta too, so that really isn't saying much.

[Qingdai]

Kentucky is the butt of joks to many American East coast states, it's the poorest, most inbred, white trash state in the union. Something, which I've never heard of, being from the west coast of the US, until recently. I asked both people from the East Coast and Kentucky if the state was really "that bad" and they confirmed that yes, it's really that bad.

My stepmother is from Kentucky/Tennessee and I'd have to say her relatives who live in that area (and Oklahoma) are beyond belief for being the most under-educated, inbred, over-sexed and drugged out family I have ever suspected existed in the US. They've also been like that for decades, if not centuries.

I would say they'd be offended at that caricaturization, but in the words of Brett Butler, "they don't understand hyphenated words."

[Kyuss Apollo]

It's where lots of the anti-big-gov't folks went after losin' the Whiskey Rebellion.

:mshine:

It's also nice country to ride motorcycles and buy old tractors, according to an acquaintance of mine that once dwelt there.

[LadyShea]

Kentucky is a lovely state to look at, and I am sure that, like the rest of South, there are areas that are Hillbilly Hell and areas that are totally normal. I assume Louisville is no worse than any other similar size city.

[erimir]

“When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Kentucky, because it's always 20 years behind.” – Mark Twain

(not sure if that's actually the correct quote, or whether Mark Twain said it)

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

Exactly, Shea.

Louisville is actually Catholic Central, from my understanding.

[Gonzo]

Louisville is a great city filled with people from all over the states. No two people are alike. I wouldn't take the word of someone who's never been there that it's some sort of inbred atrocity because it isn't. The weather is nice and the people are friendly and very social. There are rednecks all over this country and not just in the South. Why the stereotyping? Overall I think it would be a better visit than a place to live long term, if only because it's crowded, but it's worth checking out and there is a lot to do in Louisville. It's mad nice.

Enjoy the visit.

[Ensign Steve]

What LadyShea and Gonzo said. I work with two people who did part of their education in Louisville (one is a young black woman from Boston and did her undergrad there, the other is an old white preacher from south Georgia and went to seminary there), and they both speak very fondly of their time there. It's cute during Derby time how wistful and nostalgic they get.

[Watser?]

“When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Kentucky, because it's always 20 years behind.” – Mark Twain

(not sure if that's actually the correct quote, or whether Mark Twain said it)

I think Heinrich Heine said that about the Netherlands.

[Pan Narrans]

Except it was Carl Friedrich Kief who said that, complete with attribution to Heine. Supposedly, Bismarck said the same about Mecklenburg; it seems to be a popular generic placeburn. :professor:

[BrotherMan]

I went to visit some friends who lived in Louisville. As part of the directions to their house, you had to drive along Man-o-War Boulevard. I remember thinking how odd it was that a landlocked state had a road named after a jellyfish.

:derp:

[Chris Porter]

:lolhog:

[Adam]

Louisville is a lovely city.

Kentucky does have inbred back country areas that the last couple of decades have passed by (true story: while visiting my then in-laws near the charming town of Viper, I was offered a borrowed shotgun in case I wanted to help the volunteer group who were going to "hunt down that nigger" who had recently escaped from a local prison).

But Louisville is more or less like any other decently sized midwestern city.

[Qingdai]

Let me just say, that I have absolutely no first hand knowledge of Kentucky, I'm more or less surprised that it has such a bad reputation, when there are so very many contenders for most hick state.
I blame coal.

[Adam]

I'm not sure why Kentucky has that reputation. I think maybe it's the fact that it's the only state that's both widely considered "hick" and is not a part of what people usually think of as The South. So, while there are hickier states out there, it's the hickiest state in the Midwest. We Hoosiers make ourselves feel better about our lot in life by referring to Indiana towns that are thought to be especially hickish with the "-tucky" suffix. So, Noblesville becomes "Noblestucky", etc.

[California Tanker]

I've clocked up the better part of a year in Ft Knox, which is about 40 minutes South of Louisville.

I don't think I'd want to live in KY, but that's more a factor of the weather and that swarm of Cicadas every 13 years (You're good for the next decade, though). I'm not a huge fan of Louisville per se (though in fairness there are several fun night-life spots) but there's nothing actively wrong with the place. Get out of town, and it's a perfectly friendly rural part of the country. Plenty to see and do, from the Knob Creek Machinegun Shoot (Not to be co-mingled with the Knob Creek Bourbon) through Mammoth Caves and, of course, horsey things. Spend one weekend and drive the two hours South to Nashville, it seems to be a great place from what I experienced. You'll drive right by the Corvette factory, and museum. You can go two and a half hours the other way and end up in Indianapolis.

Really, there are worse places you could be sent.

NTM

[livius drusus]

I'm not sure why Kentucky has that reputation. I think maybe it's the fact that it's the only state that's both widely considered "hick" and is not a part of what people usually think of as The South.
Are you sure that's wide-widely instead of just Indiana-widely? Because I'm pretty sure it's considered The South in The South.

[Adam]

In the Midwest, it's considered the Midwest.

Do people in the South consider Kentucky to be exceptionally hickish?

ETA: If they do, it might just be that both regions consider Kentucky to be their own little piece of the other, obviously inferior, region.

ETA Also: I guess then next obvious question might be "What do Kentuckians consider themselves?" but, seriously, who cares what those fucking hicks think.

[Dingfod]

Any state with Big Beaver Lick and Knob Lick in it is alright by me.

I'm not sure why Kentucky has that reputation. I think maybe it's the fact that it's the only state that's both widely considered "hick" and is not a part of what people usually think of as The South. So, while there are hickier states out there, it's the hickiest state in the Midwest. We Hoosiers make ourselves feel better about our lot in life by referring to Indiana towns that are thought to be especially hickish with the "-tucky" suffix. So, Noblesville becomes "Noblestucky", etc.My niece, who lived in Redmond, Oregon at the time referred regularly to neighboring Prineville as "Prinetucky". I'm not sure why, because it could just as easily have been Prineklahoma or Prinekansaw or Prinesippi instead.

[Janet]

The 'tucky' suffix is particularly popular here. In Detroit we used to talk about Taylortucky and in Flint, Burton becomes Burtucky.

Also, Ohio has Big Bone Lick Park, which is awesome. In Michigan we have Big Beaver Road which is Exit #69 off I-75.

[Ymir's blood]

Round these hear pahrts, West (BY GOD) Virginia is the butt of most of the hick jokes.

[Qingdai]

As well it deserves to be. You guys are so cute with your itty bitty states and all. We have all of rural Oregon to avoid driving through late at night.

[Ymir's blood]

NC would be almost the size of Oregon if we hadn't given Tennessee back to the Federal Government. Even so we still have 2.5 times your population.

[Qingdai]

Really? Who got South Carolina then?

No one lives out here, except hicks who got thrown out of the East Coast.

[Ymir's blood]

Really? Who got South Carolina then?
SC was its own state, one of the 13. The original boundaries for a some of the states though extended out to the Pacific, theoretically. More realistically, they extended to the Mississippi River, though even that was disputable by the native inhabitants. NC 'gave back' the land that became Tennessee because they didn't want the trouble of administering it, given the lack of roads and generally unfriendly inhabitants.
No one lives out here, except hicks who got thrown out of the East Coast.Oh, we kept the choice ones for ourselves.

[Sauron]

Kentucky, like West Virginia, is a state with two unequal halves. The eastern part of Kentucky is very rural, mountainous, very poor, with some farming, but a lot of coal mining. Loretta Lynn, one of the First Ladies of classic country music, comes from an eastern Kentucky coal mining town called Butcher Holler (Hollow) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butcher_Hollow,_Kentucky). This was the placename mentioned in her Grammy Award winning song "Coal Miner's Daughter" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Miner%27s_Daughter), which was later made into a movie starring Sissy Spacek and Tommy Lee Jones. **

The central and western part of Kentucky is flatter, more agricultural (bluegrass and horses). Far more money there. Kentucky also has a border on the Ohio River (north border) which plays into the history and economy of that region. If you've ever flown into the Cincinnati Airport (a favorite hub of Delta Airlines), it's actually not in Cincinnati at all. It's in northern Kentucky. Of course, if you're in Louisville, you might as well be in Indiana. Cornfields as far as the eye can see.

Kentucky's shares a border with West Virginia, whose westernmost counties (abutting the Kentucky border) are also very rural, very poor and mostly mining. It was along this shared border that the famous Hatfield and McCoy feud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield%E2%80%93McCoy_feud) was waged. Whereas the wealthier parts of Kentucky can support the more rural areas and offset some of the poverty-related issues, West Virginia has no "wealthier region" to fall back on. Which is why WV is usually #49 or #50 in terms of state rankings for education, health care, etc.


** Let me tell you: Sissy Spacek was scarily accurate in her mannerisms and the accent. There is an particular American dialect which is not quite southern, not quite Carolina drawl, but something more Appalachian. It's common to West Virginia, eastern Kentucky and parts of Arkansas. It differs because the wave of Scotch-Irish settlers who came in the early and mid-1700s brought particular Elizabethan pronunciations and turns of phrase with them. Since I'm originally from Appalachia, one of the things I scrutinize a movie like "Coal Miner's Daughter" for is how authentic the language, the customs, the period/area artifacts are.

Edited to add: this is one thing you'll find along the American east coast - dialects change about every 30 miles or so. When I'm back home, I can often tell which town or county someone is from, just by their accent.

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

Where you from, Sauron? I didn't know you were Appalachian too. :)

And Roastelk, Louisville (lou-uh-vulle, with the "uh" barely pronounced) is out west.

[viscousmemories]

In Ann Arbor, Kentucky is absolutely considered part of the hick-south. Then again so is Ohio. And for that matter most Michigan cities that are not Ann Arbor. (Indiana is neither midwest or south to us, it's just that industrial wasteland you drive through on your way to Chicago.)

Last year I visited my niece who lives in a small town in Tennessee right near the Kentucky border and everything/everyone seemed a lot like everywhere else I've been in this country.

[erimir]

There is an particular American dialect which is not quite southern, not quite Carolina drawl, but something more Appalachian. It's common to West Virginia, eastern Kentucky and parts of Arkansas.That'd be generally speaking the Southern Midlands dialect area.

http://abagond.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/diausa.gif

Generally you can see the pattern is east-west. Stuff north of the North Midland area are all related varieties of Northern American English (although obviously there's a large difference between Minnesota and Maine English, they have the same roots but different subsequent influences and development). The Midland dialect area originated in Pennsylvania/New Jersey. As the Scotch-Irish settlers moved south down the Appalachian Mountains, the Midland dialect area extended further south, and so you have North and South Midlands. The areas south of South Midlands/Appalachian are varieties of Southern English.

And then obviously there are little islands of varieties with different influences and origins and development (i.e. the Ocracoke, Gullah, Cajun/Creole areas, New York City, etc.)

Basically, the areas labeled Rocky Mountain or western of some type can be considered generally North Midlands dialect areas - since when the immigrants mixed together in the West, the North Midlands dialect came out as the least marked. North Midlands's also the most similar to "standard" American English, or General American. But nowadays there are differences developing between California English and other areas, for example.
It differs because the wave of Scotch-Irish settlers who came in the early and mid-1700s brought particular Elizabethan pronunciations and turns of phrase with them.The notion that it represents Elizabethan English better than other American varieties is a myth.

Some of the features of Appalachian English that stick out to people are in fact archaic features rather than innovations, but it does have its own innovations too.

Some features that are archaic are the a-prefix (a-hootin' and a-hollerin'), pronouncing it as hit (the original form of the pronoun, h dropped off in other varieties, and of course it's only maintained in certain positions in Appalachian English) and some of the irregular conjugations such as say, clumb instead of climbed.

[Janet]

In Ann Arbor, Kentucky is absolutely considered part of the hick-south. Then again so is Ohio. And for that matter most Michigan cities that are not Ann Arbor.

I'm not sure I needed another reason to hate Ann Arbor, but thanks for giving me one anyway.

I find that accent thing interesting, Sauron. It's like that in Britain, only more so in that my friends can tell accents from 5 miles away. I figure it doesn't happen here much because we're such a mobile society, but I guess there are places where it's true.

[Sauron]

Where you from, Sauron? I didn't know you were Appalachian too. :)

And Roastelk, Louisville (lou-uh-vulle, with the "uh" barely pronounced) is out west.

My father's family is from Monroe County, WV, by way of Giles and Bland County, VA.

[Sauron]

The notion that it represents Elizabethan English better than other American varieties is a myth.

Well, I would take issue with that. One of the many projects I was involved with during the national bicentennial in 1976 was research into the settlement of WV and the language/music/traditions that were unique to the area.

There's also a large bibliography of research supporting this claim here, (http://www.cas.sc.edu/engl/dictionary/bibliography.html) although not without its detractors as well.

What remains undeniable, though, is that this dialect is markedly different from the rest of the south. Moreover, the presence of micro-dialects within a small geographical area suggests that the terrain (and slow transportation) played a significant role.

[Sonoma Bear]

My father's family is from Monroe County, WV, by way of Giles and Bland County, VA.

That's scary - I grew up in Giles County, Virginia, way back in the woods. :eek:

[viscousmemories]

I'm not sure I needed another reason to hate Ann Arbor, but thanks for giving me one anyway.
Don't feel bad, you'll always have Michael Moore. :P

[livius drusus]

:iceburn:

[Janet]

I'm not from Flint, I only live here. Insult it all you want. I hate the damn place.

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

That's scary - I grew up in Giles County, Virginia, way back in the woods. :eek:
I spent my first year of life in Wise County, VA.

[erimir]

The notion that it represents Elizabethan English better than other American varieties is a myth.
Well, I would take issue with that.Well, take issue with it if you like, but all American English varieties are descended from Elizabethan English. While some varieties may be more conservative than other varieties, they're all quite different from the language you see in Shakespeare.

I'm in a university in North Carolina under a professor who's done a lot of work with Appalachian English in NC, and he'll be among the first to say it's a myth.

It's sort of an attempt to raise the stature of Appalachian English amongst people who are either unable to articulate an argument against linguistic discrimination or who don't believe it themselves. Instead of saying "Appalachians aren't stupid because of the way they speak because linguistic varieties have nothing to do with superiority or inferiority, tell you nothing about intelligence etc." they go "Well, Appalachian English is more similar to Elizabethan English than yours is, so ours is MORE correct than yours in some ways!" which just promotes the type of thinking that leads to the linguistic discrimination.

Appalachian English has plenty of innovations in it (and it shares plenty of features with other American varieties) and it has archaic features as well. The same is true of American English in general as compared to British English. Using a modern British RP accent in a Shakespearean play isn't really more accurate than using an American accent, since the language of Shakespeare's time is just as much the ancestor of American English as it is of British English (for example, they only started dropping R's as in "pahk the caah" after Elizabeth was dead).

[beyelzu]

dingfod, no problem in that aria. I'm not particularity fond of squealing like a pig, so I don't intend to take any canoe trips into remote rural arias.




I will have you know that while I am sure that Kentucky does indeed have its fair share of inbreds, deliverance was set in the great state of GA and mostly filmed there as well.

[beyelzu]

There's horses, grass and fried chicken.

And yokels.

You forgot the most important thing that Kentucky added to civilization.

bourbon

[mulebear]

...deliverance was set in the great state of GA and mostly filmed there as well.

As I'm sure you know, the movie was partially filmed on the Chattooga River. I've rafted down it many times.

[Sonoma Bear]

That's scary - I grew up in Giles County, Virginia, way back in the woods. :eek:
I spent my first year of life in Wise County, VA.

So by what route did you end up in Australia? Inquiring minds want to know... :D

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

I shacked up with a :ff: member. :D

I obviously don't remember living in VA; I lived in Knoxvegas from ages 3-25.

[Sonoma Bear]

I shacked up with a :ff: member. :D

I obviously don't remember living in VA; I lived in Knoxvegas from ages 3-25.

That's a good reason! :D That's sort of how I came to live in Georgia, after living 30 some years in California. :yup:

[Ensign Steve]

Whoops! Posted from the wrong account!

[Crumb]

:chin:

[Sauron]

My father's family is from Monroe County, WV, by way of Giles and Bland County, VA.

That's scary - I grew up in Giles County, Virginia, way back in the woods. :eek:

Well, before moving to WV my dad's family lived in Ripplemead. Their old homeplace is still there.

[godfry n. glad]

I ran across this bit of current events (http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/julieingersoll/3880/will_answers_in_genesis%E2%80%99_new_%E2%80%98ark_park%E2%80%99_comply_with_anti-discrimination_laws/) from Kentucky and thought it might enlighten.

,

[Sonoma Bear]

My father's family is from Monroe County, WV, by way of Giles and Bland County, VA.

That's scary - I grew up in Giles County, Virginia, way back in the woods. :eek:

Well, before moving to WV my dad's family lived in Ripplemead. Their old homeplace is still there.

Ripplemead is fairly near to Newport, Virginia - the nearest "big" town to where I grew up. We lived so far back in the woods that there was no electricity and most of the floors were dirt. A long time and a lot of changes ago. I had an aunt who lived in Ripplemead.

[roastelk]

Where you from, Sauron? I didn't know you were Appalachian too. :)

And Roastelk, Louisville (lou-uh-vulle, with the "uh" barely pronounced) is out west.

I recently became aware of that by talking to a guy on the phone from down there. when I pronounced Louisville like ( lew wheeze vill ), I swear the guy giggled. it sounds more like loy o vull to me



godfry, up here in Canada, such a park would laughed out of existence before it could be built. so I'm not going any where near that place.

strangely however, Canadian towns do have a thing for giant statues of weird things. take the giant sausage in Mundare, and the Glendon perogi for example

[Ensign Steve]

Did you take your trip yet? I'm dying to know whether we have properly set up your expectations.

[Qingdai]

Man, I'm just wondering if I can get a hold of that giant Perogi.
:hungry:

[Anastasia Beaverhausen]

From my friend in Quebec; this is copied from a couple different posts:

It's up in Peribonka, at the Louis Hémon Museum.

"A freshly plowed field" is the artist's explanation


http://www.revolution-saglac.com/revolution_saglac/villes%5Cperibonka/images/2002juillet23_peribonka_hymen.jpg

[Sauron]

My father's family is from Monroe County, WV, by way of Giles and Bland County, VA.

That's scary - I grew up in Giles County, Virginia, way back in the woods. :eek:

Well, before moving to WV my dad's family lived in Ripplemead. Their old homeplace is still there.

Ripplemead is fairly near to Newport, Virginia - the nearest "big" town to where I grew up. We lived so far back in the woods that there was no electricity and most of the floors were dirt. A long time and a lot of changes ago. I had an aunt who lived in Ripplemead.

Yep. My mother and my uncle both live in Pembroke, which is the town next to Newport.

You may be interested in this photo set (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarverr62/sets/72157625265626293/show/), then. It includes Monroe County and Giles County, with some shots of Ripplemead and Pembroke as well.

[Sauron]

Man, I'm just wondering if I can get a hold of that giant Perogi.
:hungry:

In Soviet Russia, pirogi gets ahold of YOU.

[Qingdai]

Or Canada
:psst:

[erimir]

Apparently the pronunciation of Louisville has a number of variations.

Loo-uh-vull, Luh-vull, Loo-uh-ville, Loo-ee-ville. The important thing is not to pronounce the 's', since it's French. But if you were going to, it would be like Lewis, not Louise (Louise is the feminine form of Louis), which is probably the reason for the giggling. They're used to hearing Lewisville from outsiders, but I doubt they hear Louiseville very often.

[Sonoma Bear]

My father's family is from Monroe County, WV, by way of Giles and Bland County, VA.

That's scary - I grew up in Giles County, Virginia, way back in the woods. :eek:

Well, before moving to WV my dad's family lived in Ripplemead. Their old homeplace is still there.

Ripplemead is fairly near to Newport, Virginia - the nearest "big" town to where I grew up. We lived so far back in the woods that there was no electricity and most of the floors were dirt. A long time and a lot of changes ago. I had an aunt who lived in Ripplemead.

Yep. My mother and my uncle both live in Pembroke, which is the town next to Newport.

You may be interested in this photo set (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarverr62/sets/72157625265626293/show/), then. It includes Monroe County and Giles County, with some shots of Ripplemead and Pembroke as well.

Amazing - it looks as if the town has grown considerably in the many decades since I was there last. Thanks for the link! :wave:

[godfry n. glad]

godfry, up here in Canada, such a park would laughed out of existence before it could be built. so I'm not going any where near that place.

strangely however, Canadian towns do have a thing for giant statues of weird things. take the giant sausage in Mundare, and the Glendon perogi for example

Heh...Thanks for the 'Roadside Attractions of Alberta' set. Those are great.

We used to have a whole lot more of them down here in the states. Here in Puddle City, we've still got a Paul Bunyan (and very near Qingdai, too). The numbers of kitschy ones have been dwindling, though, over the years. Evidently, they are to be replaced by Judeo-Christian religious icons, like giant arks, ten commandment tablets, and Jebus riding triceratops.

I provided the link so that you would know that the people of Kentucky elected a governor who thinks it is just peachy for the public to subsidize the religious delusions of theogogues of one particular persuasion..."to create jobs."

It's Kent Hovind all over again. It's just more road apples for Kentuckians.