Adult paper dolls

[ApostateAbe]

A few years ago, there was a website called "Adult Paper Dolls" that let me dress up and strip various dubiously-aged girls in javascript. They would even simulate sex. That website turned into a subscription service, but I rediscovered the magic with freeware. All you need to do is download a KiSS viewer and files with ".lzh" extensions, and then you too can be a perv.

Good KiSS viewers can be downloaded here: http://otakuworld.com/index.html?/kiss/links.htm (http://otakuworld.com/index.html?/kiss/links.htm)
All the characters in Sailor Moon are exposed here: http://www.sailor-games.com/dolls.html (http://www.sailor-games.com/dolls.html)
And Otaku World has some amazing specimens, particularly Ribbon Fighter Death, but I haven't seen the others yet: http://otakuworld.com/index.html?/kiss/links.htm (http://otakuworld.com/index.html?/kiss/links.htm)

I'll try to see if I can download some more as torrents later on.

[Sweetie]

That's just sad.

[MooseIBe]

Define 'dubiously aged'.

[Beth]

He likes'm underaged.

[Beth]

I suppose this stuff is perfectly legal. But I won't bother trying to find out.

[MooseIBe]

underaged? yuck.

[D. Scarlatti]

I don't see how the word "adult" is applicable to the OP.

[ApostateAbe]

All of them are mere animations, not photographs. Perfectly legal stuff.

[ApostateAbe]

I don't see how the word "adult" is applicable to the OP.You wouldn't normally want your kids playing with them.

[Sweetie]

I don't see how the word "adult" is applicable to the OP.You wouldn't normally want your kids playing with them.
The fact that you are playing with things that children would be inclined to play with is disturbing excepting your adult exceptions which makes it even more disturbing.

Face it, there's something wrong and disturbing here.

[D. Scarlatti]

You wouldn't normally want your kids playing with them.

a) That isn't what I meant.
b) "Normal" is yet another word that doesn't apply to the OP.
c) Thankfully you're someone else's kid.

[PinkRose]

ya, this looks weird to me. adult paper dolls, i don't think so. not good.

[D. Scarlatti]

They're not adult paper dolls. They're Sailor Moon characters that the OP undresses and uses for simulated sex acts.

The "adult" component refers to the presumed "adults" that engage in the foregoing.

[PinkRose]

i have never felt aroused with paper of any kind, now a rubber toy, thats where the fun begins. :yup:

[ApostateAbe]

I knew this would go over well. The resemblance to a children's toy contains no significance except for the name. It is not so much different from normal hentai porn except that you get to take off the clothes with your cursor instead of watching them being stripped. Teenage girls are my taste (and I know I am alone in that), but there are plenty of adult-looking characters and themes to choose from, including males.

[Ensign Steve]

They're not adult paper dolls. They're Sailor Moon characters that the OP undresses and uses for simulated sex acts.

The "adult" component refers to the presumed "adults" that engage in the foregoing.

On the original Sailor Moon cartoon in Japan, when the Sailor Scouts would transform from mild-mannered teens into action-superheros, they were animated in such a way that their school clothes would violently shread and fly off their bodies before their super-hero uniforms would fall onto them somehow. The girls would fly through the air stark-raving naked for more than just a few seconds during this process. I used to rent Sailor Moon, and other R-equivalent amine, from the "Adult" section of the local video store that specialized in Asian films. Whether the cartoon is aimed at children or adults in Japan, I don't know, but a naked doll or toy of Sailor Moon does not shock or amaze me the way a naked Hermione or Powerpuff Girl would.

I remember when I first heard they were going to air Sailor Moon in the US on Cartoon Network or Fox Kids or whatever, I about died laughing. What's next, The Overfiend?

[Sweetie]

Bah, there's just a problem AA and you know it.

I mean come on:

"Since you're into underage teenage girls you could wack off to these drawings instead of photos. Most are clothed. "

There's that, there's been other things, it's just like dude, trying to find loopholes and covers for the fact that you have pedophilia like leanings is not impressive and I'm not fooled. The loophole doesn't change the idea or the intent of what you are into and it sure as hell doesn't make it any better. If you are trying to tiptoe around legalities involving the idea of underage girls at all, dude,

get some help!

[Sweetie]

Don't forget this:

"Which augmented my surprise when I sat down to eat it and I doscovered that each bite was like an orgasm while having sex with a petite teenage girl just out of puberty."

and this:

http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2986

It's lunacy.

[ApostateAbe]

Sweetie, I am unimpressed with the apparent lack of links in your posts leading to sexy pictures of teenaged hotties.

[Sweetie]

Sweetie, I am unimpressed with the apparent lack of links in your posts leading to sexy pictures of teenaged hotties.

I don't follow any of your links. The intent seems to be obvious enough but I could be wrong.

[ApostateAbe]

I don't follow any of your links. The intent seems to be obvious enough but I could be wrong.Let me help clear up your uncertainty. What do you suspect my intent is?

[Sweetie]

What is behind a pedophiles actions? A pedophiles thoughts and a pedophiles intents. A pedophile may not actually want to hurt anyone or may just simply find going to jail a much more powerful force in their life so they will tiptoe around legalities to get some payoff without suffering penalties.

I said, you very much sound like you are tiptoeing around technicalities and legalities which are put in place to protect children. I don't give a shit if they are drawings you are interested in, or if in China it's legal. I think what is in your head is just as bad as in what's in a regular ol' pedophiles head and I think if you were wise, you would instead of searching for loopholes, try to find a way to silence for the most part, what is in your head. At the very least, don't feed your thoughts and maybe one day you may have a woman who could tolerate you and have a meaningful adult relatioship that if you could mature, you could enjoy.

[ApostateAbe]

I see. That caught me by surprise. I didn't suspect that a suspicion of pedophilia was running through your head.

There is a significant difference between pedophiles and men who are attracted to girls who are barely sexually mature. Scientifically speaking, pedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children. Once a child attains sexual reproductive capability, they are no longer attractive to pedophiles. In the United States, there is a tendency to lump those two groups of people together, which is misleading. See this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile

Now it is true that I look for "loopholes" in the law so that I can see images of post-pubescent girls under the age of 18, but it is misnomer to call them "loopholes" since such images harm no one, as opposed to actual child porn.

[ApostateAbe]

Clicking on some links in that Wikipedia article has led me to discover that I am an at least somewhat of an "ephebophile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia)." Check this out:Sexual desires including youths are common among adults with a heterosexual or homosexual orientation, though their attraction is not specifical to persons that young. Only a specific and exclusive attraction to adolescents is labeled ephebophilia as a sexual condition or orientation. It should also be noted that unlike pedophilia, attraction to adolescents has never been regarded by psychologists as pathological. In fact, it has often been considered normative in some societies, such as those in which adolescent girls have been married to adult men. Nonetheless, it is often illegal for adults to act on an attraction to adolescents below a certain age, and such activity is disapproved of in many societies.I don't have exclusive sexual attraction to adolescents. I also find many adult women attractive, though adolescents are my favorites. So I am not quite an ephebophile.

[Sweetie]

I see. That caught me by surprise. I didn't suspect that a suspicion of pedophilia was running through your head.

There is a significant difference between pedophiles and men who are attracted to girls who are barely sexually mature. Scientifically speaking, pedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children. Once a child attains sexual reproductive capability, they are no longer attractive to pedophiles. In the United States, there is a tendency to lump those two groups of people together, which is misleading. See this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile

Now it is true that I look for "loopholes" in the law so that I can see images of post-pubescent girls under the age of 18, but it is misnomer to call them "loopholes" since such images harm no one, as opposed to actual child porn.


Pedophilia is desire for those under fifteen generally speaking. I don't give a shit if a ten year old has breasts, you want her in any sort of motivating way, there's a problem, IMHO.

What's wrong with women AA? Why do they have to look so young for you? Why does even if they're of age, the idea of them in your head has to be that their younger? Why can't you just settle for eighteen, nineteen year olds and up? Why, why the idea?

[Sweetie]

Just, eww.

You're just trying to find more loopholes and technicalities that makes your desire for a ten, eleven, twelve year old with breasts acceptable. I don't give a shit about differing terms, my daughter is nine and the idea that you prefer younger girls to grown adult women at all is...........

[ApostateAbe]

I see. That caught me by surprise. I didn't suspect that a suspicion of pedophilia was running through your head.

There is a significant difference between pedophiles and men who are attracted to girls who are barely sexually mature. Scientifically speaking, pedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children. Once a child attains sexual reproductive capability, they are no longer attractive to pedophiles. In the United States, there is a tendency to lump those two groups of people together, which is misleading. See this Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophile)

Now it is true that I look for "loopholes" in the law so that I can see images of post-pubescent girls under the age of 18, but it is misnomer to call them "loopholes" since such images harm no one, as opposed to actual child porn.


Pedophilia is desire for those under fifteen generally speaking. I don't give a shit if a ten year old has breasts, you want her in any sort of motivating way, there's a problem, IMHO.

What's wrong with women AA? Why do they have to look so young for you? Why does even if they're of age, the idea of them in your head has to be that their younger? Why can't you just settle for eighteen, nineteen year olds and up? Why, why the idea?Sweetie, I hope that you will be a little more careful with your accusations of pedophilia. Please understand the distinction I have described for you. I have given you a new word for you to use that describes me accurately if you need a word that communicates effectively between us. I can put up with a lot of put-downs and name-calling on the web, but accusations of pedophilia can hurt me in my personal life if word gets around.

I figure that it is natural for me to be attracted to adolescent girls. As the Wikipedia article puts it, a lot of men are as I am. Females are at their sexual prime right as they mature into puberty.

[ApostateAbe]

Just, eww.

You're just trying to find more loopholes and technicalities that makes your desire for a ten, eleven, twelve year old with breasts acceptable. I don't give a shit about differing terms, my daughter is nine and the idea that you prefer younger girls to grown adult women at all is...........Sweetie, I strongly suggest that you start giving a shit about differing terms, because words spoken in public can hurt me in my personal life.

[Sweetie]

Sweetie, I hope that you will be a little more careful with your accusations of pedophilia. Please understand the distinction I have described for you. I understand your distinctions, they are however, essentially meaningless.

I have given you a new word for you to use to describes me accurately if you need a word that communicates effectively between us. I can put up with a lot of put-downs and name-calling on the web, but accusations of pedophilia can hurt me in my personal life if word gets around.

Dude. Duuuuude. You really think what you're doing and presenting makes you look even remotely good? Do you really think that a large amount of us aren't thinking the same think with or without "technical terms" and do you really think anybody who encountered it and you wouldn't most likely come to a similar idea?

It's not me who'd be harming your personal life, it's you. I don't care how justified and technicaled and loopeholed you're making it, doesn't change what I'm seeing. The intent is essentially the same and the desire is for essentially children. Maybe physically developed children, but children all the same. If one put two pictures in front of you of females looking the same age it sounds like you would be attracted to both of the age you like, and if you found out one was older, you'd most likely be more attracted to the younger one. That's what it sounds like.

If that's the case, I would imagine there would be an underlying reason for that and it would effectively mean there was something wrong with you, don't drop me any "it's natural" bullshit.

[ApostateAbe]

It has all to do with looks, Sweetie. I once fell hopelessly in love with a thirty year old Chinese woman. She looked young, but I knew she was old.

[Sweetie]

If one put two pictures in front of you of females looking the same age it sounds like you would be attracted to both of the age you like, and if you found out one was older, you'd most likely be more attracted to the younger one.

True or false?

[ApostateAbe]

If one put two pictures in front of you of females looking the same age it sounds like you would be attracted to both of the age you like, and if you found out one was older, you'd most likely be more attracted to the younger one.

True or false?I wouldn't know for sure until I took the test, but I figure I would have slight tendency of greater attraction toward the younger one, since beauty is indeed closely associated with youth in my head. That is a reflection of the "Pavlov's dog" phenomenon, not necessarily an indicator of a problem.

[D. Scarlatti]

What do you suspect my intent is?

That's the question. Since you've already admitted this would[n't] go over well and that you are alone here in your taste for dubiously-aged girls, one can only conclude you're using this forum as a vehicle for parading your arrested perversions. What you intend to achieve by this is anyone's guess. Based on the admissions enumerated above I call it trolling.

[ApostateAbe]

D. Scarlatti, you may not believe this, but I was hoping for some stimulating and educating discussions on human nature, which I am getting. Would you like me to leave this forum? If I get enough opinions in that sentiment, I will do so.

[Sweetie]

I don't know Abe. If I ask anything else it would get a little too personal, that and I'm no pyschologist so.

At the very least man, my daughter is nine. Sex is so far removed from her world or her thoughts and she is so far from being tainted that I just can't even stand that you would even be sexually interested in anybody even close to her age.

I just.......what are we supposed to say or think or feel? I know you don't expect pats on the back, I know you know many of us are really uncomfortable with it, I know you know it's questionable and you and SkepticJ may whatever, but......

You may have a problem, I don't know. I know you believe that you are just being open about what all men are really thinking but, I'm not so sure that's really true or if that thought creeps up on them, they get rid of it because it's a bad thought and it should make one uncomfortable, like thoughts that one should steal for instance.

[ApostateAbe]

I don't know Abe. If I ask anything else it would get a little too personal, that and I'm no pyschologist so.

At the very least man, my daughter is nine. Sex is so far removed from her world or her thoughts and she is so far from being tainted that I just can't even stand that you would even be sexually interested in anybody even close to her age.

I just.......what are we supposed to say or think or feel? I know you don't expect pats on the back, I know you know many of us are really uncomfortable with it, I know you know it's questionable and you and SkepticJ may whatever, but......

You may have a problem, I don't know. I know you believe that you are just being open about what all men are really thinking but, I'm not so sure that's really true or if that thought creeps up on them, they get rid of it because it's a bad thought and it should make one uncomfortable, like thoughts that one should steal for instance.I know it is an extraordinary thing to believe, but it is my belief that an attraction to post-pubescent girls is natural in heterosexual men. I embrace that part of my nature, but I have learned through discussions in this forum that men are capable of effectively repressing it and diverting it for the sake of fitting in with society.

One board member (I can't remember his handle) said that he saw sexy looking females in a mall which triggered the appropraite emotional state, but when he realized that they were only 13 years old, the sexual thoughts in his mind immediately went away. That doesn't happen to me, but I can imagine it happening to a lot of men in today's society. For someone who doesn't let the rules of common society restrict his thoughts (such men are few), you might understand such attraction to adolescent girls. But then, it is hard for the normal man to understand the way I think, and it must be much harder for the normal woman and mother.

[Ari]

Freethought Includes thought. I don't care who is right or wrong but it seems like some arguments are being supported almost entirely with insult slinging.

Really this could be a very long discussion as society has set up some strange ideas. Teenage girls look and act sexy and are told it's in style, yet guys aren't supposed to be attracted to them. Of course there are limits, but exactly what they are is easily debatable.

Anyways, to add something to this thread, there are flash versions of these type of games, lacking the dubious ages,
http://www.newgrounds.com/collections/dress_hentai.html
(for those who lack more modern browsers, they do have pop ups).
I like the goth one. She has a knife and a pet rat.

[MooseIBe]

I know it is an extraordinary thing to believe, but it is my belief that an attraction to post-pubescent girls is natural in heterosexual men

No, i don't believe this in the slightest. All of the men i have dated or been close friends with have stated at some point or another that for a man out of his teenage years to be attracted to girls under 18 is simply wrong and very distasteful. You are trying to justify yourself in something that is simply not acceptable to the majority of the population, male or female, by using the age-old 'well most people feel the same.'

I have never met a grown man who thought that it was tasteful or acceptable to lust after barely post adolescent girls. I have no doubt that such men exist but they are not the majority.

[MooseIBe]

Really this could be a very long discussion as society has set up some strange ideas. Teenage girls look and act sexy and are told it's in style, yet guys aren't supposed to be attracted to them. Of course there are limits, but exactly what they are is easily debatable.

That is an interesting point and yes, is a good topic for discussion. Personally I do not like to see pre adolescent girls dressed as mature women, period. For post adolescent girls - 13 and 14 year olds, for instance - it is a little different. Yes, girls of that age may dress sexily - and I don't necessarily approve of that either - but that does NOT mean that they are doing so for the benefit of 45 year old perverts, whether the perv in question chooses to kid himself that they are or not. They are doing it to explore their sexuality and attract boys of their peer group and maybe a little older. The 'some young girls' dress sexy therefore they're fair game to old men' line of argument just doesn't cut it with me (I know you weren't using that personally, just saying in general).

[Beth]

See, though, Abe is 21, I think. He is still young and I suspect emotionally immature. If his attraction was to a sixteen year old, I could better understand it than an attraction to a thirteen year old.

Honestly, I have less of a problem with Abe having attraction to a pubescent girl than a girl who is prepubescent. I still think it is gross and wonder if one day he'll end up being a sex offender because of his tastes.

I'll just tell ya, stay outta Florida, Abe, cuz you could end up with a 25 year minimum sentence if you did decide to have sexual relations with a 13, 14, 15 year old. Since I think that your tastes may mature as you mature, I'll just tell ya, don't get stupid and actualize your fantasies.

[ApostateAbe]

I know it is an extraordinary thing to believe, but it is my belief that an attraction to post-pubescent girls is natural in heterosexual men

No, i don't believe this in the slightest. All of the men i have dated or been close friends with have stated at some point or another that for a man out of his teenage years to be attracted to girls under 18 is simply wrong and very distasteful. You are trying to justify yourself in something that is simply not acceptable to the majority of the population, male or female, by using the age-old 'well most people feel the same.'

I have never met a grown man who thought that it was tasteful or acceptable to lust after barely post adolescent girls. I have no doubt that such men exist but they are not the majority.It doesn't matter what men have told you, Moose. It IS distasteful and wrong because it is against the morals of common society. That doesn't mean it isn't natural. As I said, the sexual nature of men can be repressed and diverted in order to fit in. Girls are at their sexual prime when they are out of puberty. Men of the ancient past wasted no time mating with such girls, and many cultures are still like that today. It seems awkward to think that, just because men tell you that it is wrong and distasteful, you conclude that isn't natural. What men tell you and even what they think depends on what society has taught, not how nature has fashioned them.

[ApostateAbe]

See, though, Abe is 21, I think. He is still young and I suspect emotionally immature. If his attraction was to a sixteen year old, I could better understand it than an attraction to a thirteen year old.

Honestly, I have less of a problem with Abe having attraction to a pubescent girl than a girl who is prepubescent. I still think it is gross and wonder if one day he'll end up being a sex offender because of his tastes.

I'll just tell ya, stay outta Florida, Abe, cuz you could end up with a 25 year minimum sentence if you did decide to have sexual relations with a 13, 14, 15 year old. Since I think that your tastes may mature as you mature, I'll just tell ya, don't get stupid and actualize your fantasies.Beth, whenever I think about shagging any young-looking woman, it is my habit to ask for the age, and then ask to see ID. I am not so stupid as to put myself in the blackmail threat of any broad.

[Dingfod]

We've been through all this before in another thread, Abe. Women are not in their sexual prime just out of puberty. They are capable of reproducing then, but they are not the most prolific in egg production nor are they in their "sexual prime" until later on in their twenties and thirties. Contrary to what your circle of friends think, most men do not find flat-chested, no-hipped "women" to be all that sexy.

[ApostateAbe]

Freethought Includes thought. I don't care who is right or wrong but it seems like some arguments are being supported almost entirely with insult slinging.

Really this could be a very long discussion as society has set up some strange ideas. Teenage girls look and act sexy and are told it's in style, yet guys aren't supposed to be attracted to them. Of course there are limits, but exactly what they are is easily debatable.

Anyways, to add something to this thread, there are flash versions of these type of games, lacking the dubious ages,
http://www.newgrounds.com/collections/dress_hentai.html (http://www.newgrounds.com/collections/dress_hentai.html)
(for those who lack more modern browsers, they do have pop ups).
I like the goth one. She has a knife and a pet rat.Ari, thanks for being a chum and showing us that. Be careful what you say in this forum. You are likely to get flamed, harangued, and belittled. If you can't take that shit, or if you have to return the flame with your own flame, then don't take my side in these discussions and stay out of it.

[Clutch Munny]

whenever I think about shagging any young-looking woman, it is my habit to ask for the age, and then ask to see ID. I am not so stupid as to put myself in the blackmail threat of any broad.


Excellent. Others might have thought the main issue was to not have sex with someone too young to be making informed decisions about it. But as long as your paranoid fear of women (or rather, females) leads to the right outcome, it might just be doing some good.

[D. Scarlatti]

Ari, thanks for being a chum and showing us that. Be careful what you say in this forum. You are likely to get flamed, harangued, and belittled.

Spare us the persecution complex please.

You started a thread the substance of which is: I'm an alleged adult that enjoys getting aroused by manipulating naked Sailor Moon characters to have sex with each with this computer program, I'm sure I'm the only one here that finds this enjoyable and I know this thread will go over like a pork chop at a Jewish wedding.

Now you're crying martyr? Give me a fucking break.

[Dragar]

Abe, I have to admit it doesn't do much for me.

And, I have to admit, this sort of thing does leave me a little disturbed.

But, so long as you restrict your enjoyment to Sailor Moon characters, I have no problem with you.

Though I really would suggest you take a look at older (like, around twenty years old) women. You may find them attractive too, you know? And the attraction to them carries much less stigma.

[ApostateAbe]

Scarlatti, I am giving Ari warning, not crying martyr.

[ApostateAbe]

We've been through all this before in another thread, Abe. Women are not in their sexual prime just out of puberty. They are capable of reproducing then, but they are not the most prolific in egg production nor are they in their "sexual prime" until later on in their twenties and thirties. Contrary to what your circle of friends think, most men do not find flat-chested, no-hipped "women" to be all that sexy.warrenly, thanks for correcting me on that point about sexual prime. I was deceived.

[MooseIBe]

Abe, why do you always refer to women in a derogatory fashion? ('broads' 'beasts' 'fatties'). Is there anything wrong with saying just 'women'?

[MooseIBe]

It doesn't matter what men have told you, Moose. It IS distasteful and wrong because it is against the morals of common society.

Now, why do you think it is against the morals of common society, Abe?

[viscousmemories]

All of the men i have dated or been close friends with have stated at some point or another that for a man out of his teenage years to be attracted to girls under 18 is simply wrong and very distasteful.
I think it depends on whether you're talking only about physical attraction or if you mean psychological/emotional too. I think it's absurd to say that a 20 yr. old being physically attracted to a 17 yr. old is wrong and very distasteful, though I'm slightly more sympathetic to the idea that a romantic relationship between the two could be wrong and distasteful (but really only slightly).

[viscousmemories]

Be careful what you say in this forum. You are likely to get flamed, harangued, and belittled.
Can you provide some quotes where you have been flamed, harangued and belittled for expressing your views here, Abe? Because maybe I've forgotten, but it seems to me that the majority of the people here have been exceedingly respectful in their interactions with you despite your prediliction for relatively frequent references to your atypical (and grossly offensive to some) sexual interests.

[MooseIBe]

I think it depends on whether you're talking only about physical attraction or if you mean psychological/emotional too. I think it's absurd to say that a 20 yr. old being physically attracted to a 17 yr. old is wrong and very distasteful, though I'm slightly more sympathetic to the idea that a romantic relationship between the two could be wrong and distasteful (but really only slightly

Sorry I should have been clearer.. I am thinking of men I have asked who are in their late 20s, 30s and 40s .. I don't have a problem with physical or emotional attachments between 20 year olds and 17 year olds (in any case, 17 is legal so although i would find it peculiar, I suppose it wouldn't be my business if an older man were attracted to a 17 year old girl). I'd have a big problem with a man of 35 who found 14 year olds either emotionally or physically attractive though..

[ApostateAbe]

Be careful what you say in this forum. You are likely to get flamed, harangued, and belittled.
Can you provide some quotes where you have been flamed, harangued and belittled for expressing your views here, Abe? Because maybe I've forgotten, but it seems to me that the majority of the people here have been exceedingly respectful in their interactions with you despite your prediliction for relatively frequent references to your atypical (and grossly offensive to some) sexual interests.viscous, we can save that discussion for another time. What I said is important only for those who wish to take my side in this discussion, not for anyone else.

[D. Scarlatti]

For the record I'm not offended by Abe's unseemly predilections. I simply object to their characterization as "adult" pursuits.

[Dingfod]

I'm not offended by his predilections either, but I am offended when he extrapolated his preferences to the entire male population.

[MooseIBe]

I AM offended by his predilections, just to be different :). I think there is the potential in the future for them to turn into offending behaviour, though i am not a psychologist.

[viscousmemories]

What I said is important only for those who wish to take my side in this discussion, not for anyone else.
And of course only if what you said is true, which is why I asked for you to support it with evidence.

[Ari]

They may consider it wrong but that doesn't mean they haven't thought an under 18 year old girl was sexy. With Britney Spears making her career as a 17 year old sexy school girl dancing around at school, I find it very hard to believe they don't find girls under 18 to be sexy.

I find it interesting that they say 18. You have to draw a line somewhere but what makes someone 17.9 distatefull and someone 18 acceptable? It would seem that they are basing their answer on what society and the law has told them to say and not what they feel.


I know it is an extraordinary thing to believe, but it is my belief that an attraction to post-pubescent girls is natural in heterosexual men

No, i don't believe this in the slightest. All of the men i have dated or been close friends with have stated at some point or another that for a man out of his teenage years to be attracted to girls under 18 is simply wrong and very distasteful. You are trying to justify yourself in something that is simply not acceptable to the majority of the population, male or female, by using the age-old 'well most people feel the same.'

I have never met a grown man who thought that it was tasteful or acceptable to lust after barely post adolescent girls. I have no doubt that such men exist but they are not the majority.

[ApostateAbe]

What I said is important only for those who wish to take my side in this discussion, not for anyone else.
And of course only if what you said is true, which is why I asked for you to support it with evidence.If you must have an answer, then I think you best start a thread in the admin section and get my attention when you do. I have a lot to say about the forum environment.

[viscousmemories]

What I said is important only for those who wish to take my side in this discussion, not for anyone else.And of course only if what you said is true, which is why I asked for you to support it with evidence.If you must have an answer, then I think you best start a thread in the admin section and get my attention when you do. I have a lot to say about the forum environment.
You said "Be careful what you say in this forum. You are likely to get flamed, harangued, and belittled." and I asked you if you could support that claim with some examples from your own experience. It doesn't much matter to me if you can't or don't want to provide those examples, that fact is enough to settle the issue for me and probably for anyone else reading this. But if you have a lot to say about the forum environment here, then by all means start a thread in the Forum Administration forum yourself. I'm not actually in the habit of starting threads in there to request input from specific members.

[ApostateAbe]

Works for me, viscous.

[Legs]

Teenage girls are my taste

How old are you? :fuming:

[ApostateAbe]

Teenage girls are my taste

How old are you? :fuming:21.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

[QUOTE=Sweetie]I know you know it's questionable and you and SkepticJ may whatever, but......QUOTE]


Woah now, I'm only 20. Is finding a 16 year old attractive gross for me? That's just four years. Lower than 15, not going there. I also do not look up real photos of 16 year olds. I rarely even look up drawings of 16. Lots of people older than me that I find more attractive. If you think I'm being gross I'll stop looking at them, I'll need to within a few years anyway.

We don't know how old AA is. My thread wasn't meant to give him smut as such. I was telling him he has a problem.

[edit] Hmmm, so he's 21. Is that gross of him? If so I'll need to change to not be like him.

[MooseIBe]

Whether it's gross of him or not depends to me on what age of girl he considers 'fair game.' Seems to me that on the Japan thread he was admitting to lusting after an 11 year old and no, I don't think that's acceptable at all, no matter how big her breasts are..

[MooseIBe]

BTW Abe, you ignored my question, accidentally I am sure. I asked: why do you suppose that society deems that lusting after young girls is wrong?

[Legs]

Hmmm, so he's 21. Is that gross of him? If so I'll need to change to not be like him.

Children should be nurtured and respected to grow and develop into young adults at their own pace. They're sexuality should be allowed to develop at they're own pace - yes I think men who find 15 year old girls hot are sick bastards and if they act on this sexual preference, engaging, luring, involving, persuading, befriending young girls to encourage sexual activity - they are doing so for their own selfish desires and don't give a shit about what path they may be setting this child on and how their actions will affect they're entire future.

Sick fucks IMO -no cure for this either, if you find 15 year old girls hot at 21.. you will at 41, & 71 too. If anything you may get bored and start looking for younger girls to give you the thrill you have lost.

on the flipside - imagine 21 year old women finding 15 year old boys hot, seeking out their photos to masterbate to on the web and/or engaging them in real life in sex... ewwwww.

Children should be allowed to be children and not rushed or pressured into anything... but you would need a conscience to permit that to happen.

[ApostateAbe]

BTW Abe, you ignored my question, accidentally I am sure. I asked: why do you suppose that society deems that lusting after young girls is wrong?Sorry about that, Moose. My answer is that society has extended the time period of childhood and raised the age of adulthood. In ancient times, adulthood likely arrived at an age younger than 16, and all the freedoms associated with adulthood were granted at that age. The lines in the sand are now at 16 and 18. This is for a practical reason, because society is much more complicated than it once was, and it takes much more education and wisdom to live independently of parents. So, today, people see sex with a 14/15-year-old much the same as they see sex with a 9-year old, since both ages are behind the same line in the sand.

Don't take this too seriously if you strongly disagree with me, because I am speaking out of mere conjecture.

[Crumb]

I think men who find 15 year old girls hot are sick bastards
I am a sick bastard if I find a 15 year old girl who is fully sexually mature to be attractive? I think maybe you overstated yourself here Legs. These are the sick bastards:they act on this sexual preference, engaging, luring, involving, persuading, befriending young girls to encourage sexual activity - they are doing so for their own selfish desires and don't give a shit about what path they may be setting this child on and how their actions will affect they're entire future.
So, today, people see sex with a 14/15-year-old much the same as they see sex with a 9-year old, since both ages are behind the same line in the sand.
This is true. Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating sex with 15 year olds here, but it is very different to be attracted to a prepubescent 9 year old than a sexually mature 15 year old.

[viscousmemories]

Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating sex with 15 year olds here, but it is very different to be attracted to a prepubescent 9 year old than a sexually mature 15 year old.
I agree, but I also think there's also an important difference between saying:

A. I find some girls age X physically/sexually appealing, and
B. I would have sex with girls age X if it wasn't illegal and/or I could get away with it.

I don't find it particularly bothersome for adult men to admit to A. even given a fairly young X (since I think there are a myriad factors that go into physical/sexual attraction that have nothing to do with moral consideration), but I find B. disturbing given an X under maybe 17-18 when the man in question is more than a few years older than that.

In other words I think it's wrong for adults to have sex with minors (particularly when there is an age difference beyond a few years), with or without cultural or legal sanction. From what I understand of Abe's position (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) the only reason he doesn't pursue sex with adolescents is that it's currently illegal.

[Crumb]

Agreed, vm.

[Ari]

I agree with Viscous there is a big difference between A and B.

[ApostateAbe]

In other words I think it's wrong for adults to have sex with minors (particularly when there is an age difference beyond a few years), with or without cultural or legal sanction. From what I understand of Abe's position (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) the only reason he doesn't pursue sex with adolescents is that it's currently illegal.Yes, although ostracism from society would be an equal deterrent. If it were socially acceptable to shag adolescents, I believe that many men, including some who have spoken strongly against me on the matter, would do it with hardly a second thought. Mating behaviors are determined largely by society and less by individuals.

[Ensign Steve]

They're not adult paper dolls. They're Sailor Moon characters that the OP undresses and uses for simulated sex acts.

The "adult" component refers to the presumed "adults" that engage in the foregoing.

Hi! Hello! :wave:

I am an adult, and I found them very fun. Some are well drawn and I am seriously impressed by the artistry. Some are just funny and cute. :shrug: I think AA's explanation of "it's not something you would want your kids to see" (paraphrased), is pretty much on point. When you replied "that's not what I meant." What did you mean?

(sorry, I realize this thread has moved far beyond this original topic, but I felt like replying to this post on the first page. That's also why my quotes are paraphrases, cuz the original posts are too many pages ago for me to view without expending extra effort.)

[Legs]

I am a sick bastard if I find a 15 year old girl who is fully sexually mature to be attractive? I think maybe you overstated yourself here Legs.

I know a 12 year old girl who has been wearing a bra for 2 years and looks 16.

Just because this child looks sexually mature - she is far from it.

If you realize the age of the girl - IMO, you should conciously/morally avoid thinking of her sexually.

[Ensign Steve]

I AM offended by his predilections, just to be different :). I think there is the potential in the future for them to turn into offending behaviour, though i am not a psychologist.

Potential to commit a crime is not a crime in itself.

I enjoy cartoons that show all kinds of nasty stuff that I would not want to see happen to a real person. That's part of the freedom and flexibility that comes from cartoons. How would PETA feel if warner brothers routinely blew up a real-life coyote every week with TNT? A cartoon is just ink and paper. Some 30-year-old artist's work goes from their mind to my thirty-year-old eyes, and nowhere in that process is there any actual teenaged japanese schoolgirl. I really don't understand why that is a problem.

Oh, and I like how every body (including Abe) assumes Abe is alone in his tastes. That's why these countless movies and cartoons and websites were created. For one man's tastes. Right.

[viscousmemories]

How would PETA feel if warner brothers routinely blew up a real-life coyote every week with TNT?
I don't think PETA's a very good example, 'cause they are probably opposed to cartoon violence against animals too. Not that I really know what PETA thinks, but from what I've heard I wouldn't be surprised.

Oh, and I like how every body (including Abe) assumes Abe is alone in his tastes.
I know! I hate it when people make unfounded generalizations like that. ;)

A cartoon is just ink and paper. Some 30-year-old artist's work goes from their mind to my thirty-year-old eyes, and nowhere in that process is there any actual teenaged japanese schoolgirl. I really don't understand why that is a problem.
I know some states consider illustrations of minors engaged in sexual acts child pornography. It seems unconstitutional to me, but there it is.

[Crumb]

Just because this child looks sexually mature - she is far from it.
I was referring specifically to physical maturity not mental, emotional or social.

If you realize the age of the girl - IMO, you should conciously/morally avoid thinking of her sexually.
Why? Thoughts harm no one. It is only the actions you described that are able to cause harm.

[Ensign Steve]

Oh, and I like how every body (including Abe) assumes Abe is alone in his tastes.
I know! I hate it when people make unfounded generalizations like that. ;)


Are you picking on me?

[viscousmemories]

Why? Thoughts harm no one. It is only the actions you described that are able to cause harm.
I think that's a questionable assertion. We had an interesting thread (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1285) on the subject back in December, wherein I thought there were some good arguments that some thoughts can be harmful.

[viscousmemories]

Are you picking on me?
Of course!

[viscousmemories]

Yes, although ostracism from society would be an equal deterrent. If it were socially acceptable to shag adolescents, I believe that many men, including some who have spoken strongly against me on the matter, would do it with hardly a second thought. Mating behaviors are determined largely by society and less by individuals.
I have no doubt that many men would rape and kill women if it were socially acceptable. There are men though, like myself, who wouldn't. I don't refrain from raping and killing women because society frowns on it but because I have empathy and compassion for women.

[Ensign Steve]

But there are those men, unlike yourself, who would rape and murder women, as you said. Those laws and societal rules are in place to protect against such a thing. So I guess what I'm wondering is, what is your point? Or for that matter, what is my point?

[viscousmemories]

My point is that the fact that there may be many men who would shag adolescent girls if it were socially acceptable says nothing about whether it's the right thing to do.

[Ensign Steve]

:yup: okay

[Ensign Steve]

okay, at the risk of remaining on topic...

Suppose there is a person who does not posess the same empathy that you posess, and really would rape and murdur women if it were allowed. The only thing stopping this person is that he would be socially ostracised and imprisoned if he acted on his natural urges. Would it be wrong for him to view or even create cartoons, literotica, pornography depicting the rape and murder of women, as a catharsis?

IMO, no. The use of such things doesn't make him any more or less sick than he already is, but if he can use those as an outlet, it might protect his would-be victims.

[viscousmemories]

If that solution were a proven method of facilitating a healthy catharsis then I'd probably support it. But it seems equally possible that it might actually fan the flames, so to speak. That's one for the psychologists, I think. :shrug:

And how is that on the topic? :P

[Ensign Steve]

And how is that on the topic? :P

Erm. Cuz of the cartoons. yeah.

[D. Scarlatti]

Oh, and I like how every body (including Abe) assumes Abe is alone in his tastes.

Abe said "here," which I took to mean these forums. Of course there may be members here who who share Abe's "adult" proclivity, but are too busy masturbating to naked Sailor Moon characters having sex to post.

[Ensign Steve]

If that solution were a proven method of facilitating a healthy catharsis then I'd probably support it. But it seems equally possible that it might actually fan the flames, so to speak. That's one for the psychologists, I think. :shrug:

Okay, psychologists and catharsis aside... Is there anything intrinsically immoral about creating and viewing cartoons, literotica, etc. depicting immoral acts, assuming there is no actual victim involved in the creation of such? IMO, still, no.

[Ensign Steve]

Oh, and I like how every body (including Abe) assumes Abe is alone in his tastes.

Abe said "here," which I took to mean these forums. Of course there may be members here who who share Abe's "adult" proclivity, but are too busy masturbating to naked Sailor Moon characters having sex to post.

It may be due to my four-day weekend, but I find I have plenty of time to both masturbate to Sailor Moon and post on the forums. But then again, I am seriously procrastinating on chores that I really need to get done.

[viscousmemories]

Okay, psychologists and catharsis aside... Is there anything intrinsically immoral about creating and viewing cartoons, literotica, etc. depicting immoral acts, assuming there is no actual victim involved in the creation of such? IMO, still, no.
I don't believe in objective morality, so I don't think anything's intrinsically immoral. But I think there are compelling reasons to believe that apparently victimless crimes might actually have victims. Like I said earlier check out that Thoughtcrime thread I linked to for some idea of what I mean. After you're done masturbating to Sailor Moon, natch.

[Ensign Steve]

Natch.

[Sweetie]

I agree, but I also think there's also an important difference between saying:

A. I find some girls age X physically/sexually appealing, and
B. I would have sex with girls age X if it wasn't illegal and/or I could get away with it.

I don't find it particularly bothersome for adult men to admit to A. even given a fairly young X (since I think there are a myriad factors that go into physical/sexual attraction that have nothing to do with moral consideration), but I find B. disturbing given an X under maybe 17-18 when the man in question is more than a few years older than that.

In other words I think it's wrong for adults to have sex with minors (particularly when there is an age difference beyond a few years), with or without cultural or legal sanction. From what I understand of Abe's position (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) the only reason he doesn't pursue sex with adolescents is that it's currently illegal.



This is basically how I see it too, B is completely unacceptable whether if in this country it's legal or not. If a country isn't protecting their children well enough there might be another reason for it as well as there being reason for the whole sex with thirteen year olds way back when.

I will say though that in alot of cases, betrothals happened perhaps at 13, consummation didn't happen until the girls were older.

Back then, women and children were considered property.

Child prostitution exists for monetary gain.

Back how many years ago, girls were developing later and even now at twelve and thirteen pregnancy is not only unfortunate but potentially harmful for girls of that age.

So if you want to discuss the act of sex with a young girl there are several reasons to recommend that it's not only not natural for her, but harmful and part of the reasons why it's done is not because these girls are ready, it's because they're things.

So if it's not in a girls best interests to have intercourse at that age, why would it be natural for men to have interest in a girl that age?

Now Abe, you talk about them like they are things and as far as I'm concerned, they are too young to be treated like sex objects. There are enough women out there volunteering for the position, why do you need young girls who aren't voluteering and if they are, they most likely don't know what they are getting into.

[Sweetie]

For me personally, absolutely there is dividing line between 10-13 year olds, 14-15 year olds, 16-18 year olds.

10-13 year olds, just forget about it.

14-15 year olds, understandable, but just forget about it or wait.

16-18 year olds, fine however, they are young and naive, for that reason primarily I think they aren't allowed to be presented in porn, so that they're not being used without consent or having real and true understanding of what they are consenting to and how it can effect their lives.



Me and my cousin's husband used to banter when I was fourteen maybe. My body was a woman's body, he was most definately attracted but I mean, in front of everybody it just became a light-hearted thing of play but if it was anything more than that, I would have been really upset. He used to try and get me to flip over when I was on my stomach sunbathing without a top, or steal my top or whatever but, I caught up with him last year and he looks at me like, you haven't changed he said. I saw something pretty tender in his eyes, it wasn't disturbing.

At the very least I knew that he was interested then at least, but he would never do or have ever done anything to really hurt me and that was pretty sweet.

There's attraction and then there's reality. Some people can deal with both, other people are pushing limits and other people are just taking it all in their stride.


Seriously though, I've had enough experiences on that score. I have my cousin's husband for instance, a family friend's old father, the husband of a couple I babysat for, there's a distant relation and his attraction to me at twelve or thirteen but his offer of marriage was for when I was eighteen, we have a pedophile who was foiled, another guy that freaked the shit out of me, a family friend, I always wondered if he was screwing with his kids, he was weird and then another boy when I was seven I think. :chin: Certainly alot of older boy's/men attraction when I was sixteen or seventeen.

It's just, I understand that men are attracted to female bodies but I just........

Is there nothing in your brain that says look, she's too young, she's a babe? That she might have a hard time even dealing with the fact that you are wanting so intensely? That's she/they may not know what to do with it? That she most likely can't deal with the consequences?

That you are wanting something you can't have and even if you find a loophole that you shouldn't have even then? What's the point of dwelling or continually tempting yourself with things you can't have?

[Beth]

It may be due to my four-day weekend, but I find I have plenty of time to both masturbate to Sailor Moon and post on the forums. But then again, I am seriously procrastinating on chores that I really need to get done.Doncha just hate the way chores try to seep in on life's pleasures.


I think I'll just try to hunt up my old Sailor Moon Halloween costume since she is such a turn-on. But I don't think I'll let my daughter have hers back till she's 17.

[ApostateAbe]

Now Abe, you talk about them like they are things and as far as I'm concerned, they are too young to be treated like sex objects. There are enough women out there volunteering for the position, why do you need young girls who aren't voluteering and if they are, they most likely don't know what they are getting into.Those realities don't really influence the amount of attraction I feel for such girls. My sexuality is independent of all of that.

I have sexual thoughts about young post-pubescent girls, but I can't say I ever treated any such girl I have met as a sex object. I don't pursue sex with them. It is unlikely that I ever will.

[ApostateAbe]

It's just, I understand that men are attracted to female bodies but I just........

Is there nothing in your brain that says look, she's too young, she's a babe? That she might have a hard time even dealing with the fact that you are wanting so intensely? That's she/they may not know what to do with it? That she most likely can't deal with the consequences?I sometimes have fantasies about being raped by women carrying HIV. Certainly I know better than to get in a situation like that, but that isn't much of a reason to withhold the fantasies. That you are wanting something you can't have and even if you find a loophole that you shouldn't have even then? What's the point of dwelling or continually tempting yourself with things you can't have?I think it is human nature to want what we can't have.

[Sweetie]

I sometimes have fantasies about being raped by women carrying HIV. Certainly I know better than to get in a situation like that, but that isn't much of a reason to withhold the fantasies.

I would imagine there was some reason for those fantasies too.

On a comic relief note, lol, my friend told this joke yesterday:

Why should Mennonites wear condoms?





To stop the spread of Abes. :giggles: :wink:

[ApostateAbe]

On a comic relief note, lol, my friend told this joke yesterday:

Why should Mennonites wear condoms?





To stop the spread of Abes. :giggles: :wink:I'll have to think about that one.

[MooseIBe]

Abe, am I right that you're not attracted at all to pre adolescent girls?

[viscousmemories]

I'll have to think about that one.
I think it's a play on the fact that there are a lot of Mennonites named 'Abe'.

[ApostateAbe]

Abe, am I right that you're not attracted at all to pre adolescent girls?Yes.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Hmmm, so he's 21. Is that gross of him? If so I'll need to change to not be like him.

Sick fucks IMO -no cure for this either, if you find 15 year old girls hot at 21.. you will at 41, & 71 too. If anything you may get bored and start looking for younger girls to give you the thrill you have lost.

By that logic, Amy, a girl I loved back when I was in Fourth Grade would be sexually attractive to me now. She wouldn't be, she'd be cute in the way a baby, little kid, puppy, kitten ect. is but nothing more. She's 19 or 20 now, grown up just like I have. I haven't seen her in real life in about eight or nine years. I saw a new photo of her maybe two, three years ago, very hot.
If I were 25 I wouldn't date a 17 year old. It seems really stupid and unfair that a female the same age as one of my quite socially and physically mature (male)friends is off limits. The posters on here that say it's wrong must not remember how sexual 16-18 year olds are. These are the people who go to Spring Break and flash people. What's the reasonable difference between 16 and 18 for someone my age? Sure there needs to be a cut-off so 40 year old pervs can't date them legaly, but four years doesn't matter. If I were still 16 I'd date a 20 year old if she liked me.