Pink shirts

[ApostateAbe]

So I was looking at beautifulpeople.net, and one of their new members was a man with a PINK SHIRT with his collar turned up. I was thinking, "OMGWTF, how did this chump with a pink shirt get voted in?" But then I remembered that the voting on male applicants is done by the women. And women seem to like men in pink shirts.

Why is this? I figure it has something to do with the fact that other men would like to kick the ever-loving shit out of guys wearing pink shirts, and that somehow impresses women. Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that it looks gay, and gayness turns women on. Or maybe women believe it is trendy and cool.

What are your explanations?

[John Carter]

Or maybe he's just confident enough that he doesn't give a fuck what you think about pink shirts.

[ApostateAbe]

Or maybe he's just confident enough that he doesn't give a fuck what you think about pink shirts.Yeah, I think that might be it.

[Godless Dave]

I figure it has something to do with the fact that other men would like to kick the ever-loving shit out of guys wearing pink shirts

What are you, 12 years old?

[ApostateAbe]

I figure it has something to do with the fact that other men would like to kick the ever-loving shit out of guys wearing pink shirts

What are you, 12 years old?21.

[Western]

Because beautiful women aren't going to look on the net for a sex partner (they're beautiful after all, they just need to go and get drunk at any real club for that), they want somebody to talk to and connect with, and hence they're looking for a fag- somebody who doesn't want to make out, just hold hands and discuss things.

[ApostateAbe]

Because beautiful women aren't going to look on the net for a sex partner (they're beautiful after all, they just need to go and get drunk at any real club for that), they want somebody to talk to and connect with, and hence they're looking for a fag- somebody who doesn't want to make out, just hold hands and discuss things.That seems unlikely, because it seems to me that women will actually want a man wearing a pink shirt to screw them. Though I may have been deceived.

[Western]

Maybe. The whole "Metro" thing flew/is still flying straight (no pun intended) over my head :shrug:.

[Adora]

Why is this?
To me it says he doesn't care about bullshit stereotypes, and is comfortable enough in himself to do such a thing that goes against social taboos of such fuckwits who, as you said, would kick the shit out of him. That impresses me. It also means he stands out in the crowd, which is always a bonus when you're trying to attract a fuck and all.

[Alex Bragi]

Oh, no, not the dreaded pink shirt!!!

Don’t be too shocked Abe, you’ve just been dazzled by a metrosexual, that’s all. :yup:

[Western]

LOL Hooray for non-conformity? Avoiding cliches is so cliche these days :P.

[justaman]

I wear a pink shirt. :indifferent: It's completely hawt, Abe, you just don't understand. You need to keep up with fashion.

[Dingfod]

I've been known to wear a pink shirt now and then. At first it was just because I liked the look, but when I realized that it irritated some guys that don't think heterosexual men should wear pink, that became the reason I would wear them. I had a textured pink tie that I would wear with those pink shirts and often with white or grey shirts.

Just recently, I've been told that purple is the new pink. I wear purple shirts a lot, but it wasn't for the same reason I wore the pink ones, it's because I like purple.

[Godless Dave]

I figure it has something to do with the fact that other men would like to kick the ever-loving shit out of guys wearing pink shirts

What are you, 12 years old?21.

And you still think that wearing a pink shirt is indicative of homosexuality, and would incite other men to violence?

[beyelzu]

well, it's what I look for when I go fagbashing.

/sarcasm

[Dingfod]

You look for your pink shirt to wear when you go fagbashing?

[livius drusus]

Pink shirts set off a tan very nicely. Of course, a tan is the second thing any man is going to look for when selecting his gay to bash.

[justaman]

Pink shirts set off a tan very nicely. Of course, a tan is the second thing any man is going to look for when selecting his gay to bash.
What about a relatively innocuous tattoo peeking below the sleeve of said pink shirt to create a tantalising juxtaposition of Sweet Boy/Bad Boy all on the one tricep?

See Abe needs to start learning about this stuff if he wants to pull the fraulines.

[D. Scarlatti]

I expect the existence of Fred Couples and the composition of his entourage would send Abe into cognitive dissonance Gamma 9.

[livius drusus]

What about a relatively innocuous tattoo peeking below the sleeve of said pink shirt to create a tantalising juxtaposition of Sweet Boy/Bad Boy all on the one tricep?

Now you're talking advanced classes, my friend, especially if the tat in question is a tribal armband or the Chinese symbol for water and fire.

[JoeP]

Pink shirts are not a new thing. You've been able to buy pink men's shirts in London, say, for decades. The kneejerk association of pink with homosexuality is new(er).

I had a pink sweatshirt at university and the girls loved it.

[ApostateAbe]

I figure it has something to do with the fact that other men would like to kick the ever-loving shit out of guys wearing pink shirts

What are you, 12 years old?21.

And you still think that wearing a pink shirt is indicative of homosexuality, and would incite other men to violence?Dave, the assumptions in your question don't fit. Pink is closely associated with femininity, and, as an extension, pink on men indicates homosexuality among many men, but I don't count myself as one of them. For me, pink is what a straight guy would wear who doesn't care about his masculine pride or would much rather sacrifice it to have a greater chance at getting tail. And I can understand that. So can you just tell me your reason for why you believe women like pink shirts on men? I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

[ApostateAbe]

Let me share with you all a thread that was posted in a bodybuilding forum I go to: Man the last weekend I was standing infront of my fav bar in Dublin spending some time to talk to a friend who was smoking a cigarette and beside stands this dumb asshole with a

PINK POLOSHIRT with the Collar UP

As soon as i saw him I was like ... WHAT A ****ing TOOL

All of a sudden a girl (not to good looking but not bad neither) walks by and just by walking by says to the dude...

NICE SHIRT

I was like... OMFG you just gave him a bigger head that he has already, and he was all... thanks baby and all, I was so pissed off, so I head back in.

Inside I see this nice girl, so since I was pissed off I walked up on her and started chatting with her, we have a nice conversation and all, and all of a sudden the same guy walks at me and says:

Can I just interrupt you there for a sec... (and than to the girl)
I was dying to talk to you before... want to have a drink with me?

He was obviously all hyped up about the ****ing comment he got from this girl... I swear I COULD NOT believe it.

I said to the girl: You know that guy?
She was: Nope (kinda laughs)

Now I'm fairly tall and pack some muscle since I have been working out 2 years now (nithing crazy I have lost over 30 kilos so i have lost a lot od muscles too) , so I guess you can see it a bit, plus I shaved my hair off and to complete the basdass look have both of my arms tattooed with black tribal.

He was in a PINK shirt with the collar UP and a skinny ****er...you know the type with the spicky hair and blong color in it.

So for the first time in Ireland and since 6 years living here I completely lost it, grabbed him friendly around the neck and pointed at the wall behind him:

You see that wall my friend ?
He was like: Yeah what about it (slightly worried voice)
If you don't get the **** away from me in exactly 5 sec I will burry your face in that ****ing wall buddy...

He was all, dude I'm sorry and all lol pisser... problem the girl was not impressed and I could not fix it even after telling her that he was out of order and all, i could not explain to her that I hate his shirt and all... so after 5 min worthless conversation I gave up and moved on

I did not get laid that night and I was still pissed of when i came home.There is a good chance that the ballsy guy in the pink shirt with his collar up got laid that night.

[D. Scarlatti]

Chicks must really go for dumb bodybuilders in pink shirts then. Time to start pushing iron and getting a lobotomy.

[ApostateAbe]

Chicks must really go for dumb bodybuilders in pink shirts then.Yeah, that must really send chicks into orgasms on the first sight, but I don't know if such men exist.

[Beth]

Oh gosh, this is one of the most juvenile things I've read in ages. Pink just looks good on some guys. No biggie. Hubby wears pink every now and again, it is a cooler color in the intense summer sun. The right shades are flattering to him, and since I buy most of his clothes... I personally like that he does not give a shit about stupid stereotypes and knows he can kick the shit out of anyone that decides to run his mouth about it.

[ApostateAbe]

Oh gosh, this is one of the most juvenile things I've read in ages. Pink just looks good on some guys. No biggie. Hubby wears pink every now and again, it is a cooler color in the intense summer sun. The right shades are flattering to him, and since I buy most of his clothes... I personally like that he does not give a shit about stupid stereotypes and knows he can kick the shit out of anyone that decides to run his mouth about it.There has to be more to it than that. A man putting on a pink shirt, flipping up the collar, and walking out in public is like a man taking a knife to his scrotum and lopping his balls off. Maybe you don't buy that analogy, but it can't be that pink just "looks good."

EDIT: It's that part about not giving a shit that I think hits closer to the mark.

[Godless Dave]

Dave, the assumptions in your question don't fit. Pink is closely associated with femininity, and, as an extension, pink on men indicates homosexuality among many men

How many? And by "men", do you mean actual men, or boys in junior high school?

For me, pink is what a straight guy would wear who doesn't care about his masculine pride or would much rather sacrifice it to have a greater chance at getting tail.

Well that's a much more mature attitude, such as you might find in a 14-year-old boy.

So can you just tell me your reason for why you believe women like pink shirts on men?

I don't think they do, particularly.

[wei yau]

There has to be more to it than that. A man putting on a pink shirt, flipping up the collar, and walking out in public is like a man taking a knife to his scrotum and lopping his balls off. Maybe you don't buy that analogy, but it can't be that pink just "looks good."


You say that there's more to it than that, but even with the latest post, I still see nothing but empty-headed nonsense.

How do you feel about a woman putting on a blue shirt, tucking it into her jeans and walking out in public? Is it like krazy gluing a pair of balls to her crotch?

I can't even pretend to understand what you're getting at. How do you feel about guys with long hair? Women with short hair? Are they brave pioneers against gender stereotypes? Or are they simply people who just like their hair at certain lengths?

I mean, you post here about your attraction to pubescent Asian girls. You refer to women as chicks. You seem to value women only for their physical attributes. You think sexuality is defined by physique and fashion. And in spite of all this you think the guy with the pink shirt has a problem?

It boggles my mind.

[Dingfod]

No, I don't buy the analogy. Pink does look good; like livius said, set against a nice tan, pink looks good on either sex. Anyone that doesn't think so must be a Neanderthal, or colorblind.

[Godless Dave]

Let me share with you all a thread that was posted in a bodybuilding forum I go to: Man the last weekend I was standing infront of my fav bar in Dublin spending some time to talk to a friend who was smoking a cigarette and beside stands this dumb asshole with a

PINK POLOSHIRT with the Collar UP

As soon as i saw him I was like ... WHAT A ****ing TOOL

All of a sudden a girl (not to good looking but not bad neither) walks by and just by walking by says to the dude...

NICE SHIRT

I was like... OMFG you just gave him a bigger head that he has already, and he was all... thanks baby and all, I was so pissed off, so I head back in.

Inside I see this nice girl, so since I was pissed off I walked up on her and started chatting with her, we have a nice conversation and all, and all of a sudden the same guy walks at me and says:

Can I just interrupt you there for a sec... (and than to the girl)
I was dying to talk to you before... want to have a drink with me?

He was obviously all hyped up about the ****ing comment he got from this girl... I swear I COULD NOT believe it.

I said to the girl: You know that guy?
She was: Nope (kinda laughs)

Now I'm fairly tall and pack some muscle since I have been working out 2 years now (nithing crazy I have lost over 30 kilos so i have lost a lot od muscles too) , so I guess you can see it a bit, plus I shaved my hair off and to complete the basdass look have both of my arms tattooed with black tribal.

He was in a PINK shirt with the collar UP and a skinny ****er...you know the type with the spicky hair and blong color in it.

So for the first time in Ireland and since 6 years living here I completely lost it, grabbed him friendly around the neck and pointed at the wall behind him:

You see that wall my friend ?
He was like: Yeah what about it (slightly worried voice)
If you don't get the **** away from me in exactly 5 sec I will burry your face in that ****ing wall buddy...

He was all, dude I'm sorry and all lol pisser... problem the girl was not impressed and I could not fix it even after telling her that he was out of order and all, i could not explain to her that I hate his shirt and all... so after 5 min worthless conversation I gave up and moved on

I did not get laid that night and I was still pissed of when i came home.

While I firmly believe that most adult humans are idiots, even I don't think the exchange you posted is typical of most adult American men. And I certainly wouldn't think a person as intelligent as you, Abe, would willingly identify with such juvenile nonsense.

[D. Scarlatti]

A man putting on a pink shirt, flipping up the collar, and walking out in public is like a man taking a knife to his scrotum and lopping his balls off.

Or driving them 275 yards into the fairway.

I agree this is just about the most idiotic thread yet. Considering the source that's quite an accomplishment.

[ApostateAbe]

While I firmly believe that most adult humans are idiots, even I don't think the exchange you posted is typical of most adult American men. And I certainly wouldn't think a person as intelligent as you, Abe, would willingly identify with such juvenile nonsense.Then I at least hope you learned something new this morning. Among bodybuilders, pink shirts on men are like shirts saying, "Bitch-slap me now, please." Now why do you think pink shirts on men turn women on? I would like your contribution. You have given me nothing so far except your rude bitching, but I won't hold that against you. I am also an asshole.

[natasha]

Just recently, I've been told that purple is the new pink. I wear purple shirts a lot, but it wasn't for the same reason I wore the pink ones, it's because I like purple.

No, no! Pink is the new green. Green is the new black. That's what they say anyway, I could be so yesterday on all that though. :dunno:

I like pink, I like pink on men, and I don't think for one minute a gay is gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) if he's wearing pink.

Who cares anyway?

Now, comb-overs THAT'S something to be concerned about!

[godfry n. glad]

Among bodybuilders, pink shirts on men are like shirts saying, "Bitch-slap me now, please."

Bodybuilders as authoritative sources? Men who've turned their testicles into useless raisinettes with their illegal and moronic usage of steroids are worthless authorities on anything other than how to royally fuck up your own body.

[D. Scarlatti]

Maybe bitchslapping guys in pink shirts is how bodybuilders get their quotient of aeorbic exercise.

[livius drusus]

Now I'm fairly tall and pack some muscle since I have been working out 2 years now (nithing crazy I have lost over 30 kilos so i have lost a lot od muscles too) , so I guess you can see it a bit, plus I shaved my hair off and to complete the basdass look have both of my arms tattooed with black tribal.

And the mystery is solved. Your bodybuilder friend, Abe, is a total closet case. I so called it (http://www.freethought-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=77188#post77188) too.

[D. Scarlatti]

Aha. Wait until I see that guy, I'm going to bitchslap him silly. And I hope there are some chicks watching so they can have orgasms and save me all the trouble of stimulating their clitorises and having a personality and all that crap.

[Crumb]

Bodybuilders as authoritative sources? Men who've turned their testicles into useless raisinettes with their illegal and moronic usage of steroids are worthless authorities on anything other than how to royally fuck up your own body.
Assuming that bodybuilders are steroid users is on par with assuming that pink shirt wearers are homosexual.

[Godless Dave]

Then I at least hope you learned something new this morning. Among bodybuilders, pink shirts on men are like shirts saying, "Bitch-slap me now, please."

Have you yourself adopted this attitude?

Now why do you think pink shirts on men turn women on?

They don't.

[godfry n. glad]

Bodybuilders as authoritative sources? Men who've turned their testicles into useless raisinettes with their illegal and moronic usage of steroids are worthless authorities on anything other than how to royally fuck up your own body.
Assuming that bodybuilders are steroid users is on par with assuming that pink shirt wearers are homosexual.

Oh, no...

I wouldn't assume that. Let's just say that the chances are much higher that my scenario would be the case. That's given the assumption that the percentage of steroid users would be higher amongst bodybuilders than the general population and any other subgroup of the population.

I don't think you can say that about pink shirt wearers. Indeed, I'd take an educated guess that a lot of pink shirt wearers are men who didn't buy a pink shirt and didn't know that whites and colored laundry should be separated during the wash.

Is that adequate for you, Mr. Niggling Prig?

[Crumb]

Well of course there is a higher statistical likely hood, but that doesn't mean that steroid using bodybuilders couldn't be in the minority. It just seems that you are making the same cognitive error as the thugs who are out thumping on pink shirts. Over generalizing sucks.

[D. Scarlatti]

Hey can you two put on pink shirts before you start bitchslapping each other? Because I want to have an orgasm.

[godfry n. glad]

Now why do you think pink shirts on men turn women on?

They don't.

You've done the research?

My entirely anecdotal approach seems to show that women like that men have the security in their own masculine sexuality to flaunt the obviously sophmoric fashion statement that pink is feminine....or do their own wash.

[Crumb]

..or do their own wash.
:laugh:

[Beth]

I let my son read this thread. He told me that the only time he evers wears pink is when I turn his white tees and socks pink. (I suck at laundry;))

[D. Scarlatti]

And if you put your brand new pink Ashworth polo in with your manly white t-shirts, you better stay away from Gold's Gym for awhile.

[godfry n. glad]

Hey can you two put on pink shirts before you start bitchslapping each other? Because I want to have an orgasm.

Sorry, Scarlatti...

I don't have any pink shirts any more. I got rid of mine ten years back, five years after that long dead fashion trend had died a timely death. Pink and grey...that was then. Then black became the new grey and San Francisco and New York started looking like seminaries or clergical retreat centers. We're still dealing with that misguided fashion assertion.

Fashion is a bitch goddess who demands total obeisance.

[D. Scarlatti]

I don't have any pink shirts any more.

I can lend you one of mine. I've worn them in "threesomes" and even "foursomes," and never once been bitchslapped.

On the other hand a pink shirt never got me any closer to the hole, so maybe Abe is onto something after all.

[godfry n. glad]

Well of course there is a higher statistical likely hood, but that doesn't mean that steroid using bodybuilders couldn't be in the minority. It just seems that you are making the same cognitive error as the thugs who are out thumping on pink shirts. Over generalizing sucks.

It doesn't mean they couldn't be in the majority, either. I'd bet that it depends upon what you mean with the term "bodybuilders". I meant those who were really serious about it....the ones who want to build bulk. I don't consider those men who use weights for toning to be "bodybuilders". I don't consider those men who try to build muscle mass for three weeks and then give up because it's just too much damned trouble to be bodybuilders.

I'd bet that a sizeable majority of "serious" bodybuilders are steroid users.

I have a neighbor (who thankfully does not live next door) who is a professional bodybuilder. He's a trainer. A professional trainer who actually changed his last name to a muscle group to advance his business. This guy prances around his yard in a Speedo on a nice day, thinking who knows what. The women in the neighborhood, young and old, think he's a huge monstrosity and a joke. He is the most unliked neighbor in the immediate area. Go and talk to him about some neighborhood issue and he quickly slides from disagreeable to edgy to downright dangerous (he actually threatened to use his pistol to settle a property line disagreement, after his screaming and attempts at physical intimidation failed). It's clear to me that he is unstable. I'm fairly certain he's a user and, as a trainer, he's most likely recommending his favorite melange of pharmaceuticals to his trainees.

[Crumb]

:deepsigh:

[godfry n. glad]

I don't have any pink shirts any more.

I can lend you one of mine. I've worn them in "threesomes" and even "foursomes," and never once been bitchslapped.

On the other hand a pink shirt never got me any closer to the hole, so maybe Abe is onto something after all.

:giggle:

[JoeP]

I can lend you one of mine. I've worn them in "threesomes" and even "foursomes," :eyebrow2: Three/four shirts at once? Three/four guys all wearing pink shirts? Three/four different items of clothing (what? Shirt, tie, trousers, jacket?)? Please clarify.

[ApostateAbe]

There has to be more to it than that. A man putting on a pink shirt, flipping up the collar, and walking out in public is like a man taking a knife to his scrotum and lopping his balls off. Maybe you don't buy that analogy, but it can't be that pink just "looks good."


You say that there's more to it than that, but even with the latest post, I still see nothing but empty-headed nonsense.

How do you feel about a woman putting on a blue shirt, tucking it into her jeans and walking out in public? Is it like krazy gluing a pair of balls to her crotch?

I can't even pretend to understand what you're getting at. How do you feel about guys with long hair? Women with short hair? Are they brave pioneers against gender stereotypes? Or are they simply people who just like their hair at certain lengths?

I mean, you post here about your attraction to pubescent Asian girls. You refer to women as chicks. You seem to value women only for their physical attributes. You think sexuality is defined by physique and fashion. And in spite of all this you think the guy with the pink shirt has a problem?

It boggles my mind.I'll help you understand as much as I can. Long hair is something that more appropriately crosses both genders. Manlyesque men of manly manhood can have long hair, but he can't be wearing a pink shirt. I don't mind women trying to look like men. Men are concentrated at the upper end of the social hierarchy, and women are concentrated at the lower end. For a woman trying to look like a man, she is trying to identify with the greater gender, often at the expense of her sexuality. But for a man to try to look like a woman, he is bringing himself down to the lesser gender, to the benefit of his sexuality, confoundingly.

[godfry n. glad]

There has to be more to it than that. A man putting on a pink shirt, flipping up the collar, and walking out in public is like a man taking a knife to his scrotum and lopping his balls off. Maybe you don't buy that analogy, but it can't be that pink just "looks good."


You say that there's more to it than that, but even with the latest post, I still see nothing but empty-headed nonsense.

How do you feel about a woman putting on a blue shirt, tucking it into her jeans and walking out in public? Is it like krazy gluing a pair of balls to her crotch?

I can't even pretend to understand what you're getting at. How do you feel about guys with long hair? Women with short hair? Are they brave pioneers against gender stereotypes? Or are they simply people who just like their hair at certain lengths?

I mean, you post here about your attraction to pubescent Asian girls. You refer to women as chicks. You seem to value women only for their physical attributes. You think sexuality is defined by physique and fashion. And in spite of all this you think the guy with the pink shirt has a problem?

It boggles my mind.I'll help you understand as much as I can. Long hair is something that more appropriately crosses both genders. Manlyesque men of manly manhood can have long hair, but he can't be wearing a pink shirt. I don't mind women trying to look like men. Men are concentrated at the upper end of the social hierarchy, and women are concentrated at the lower end. For a woman trying to look like a man, she is trying to identify with the greater gender, often at the expense of her sexuality. But for a man to try to look like a woman, he is bringing himself down to the lesser gender, to the benefit of his sexuality, confoundingly.

Y'know, Abe... I've wondered at your avatar for some time now, and all of a sudden, it makes sense. That character is in panic, searching for his nearly non-existent penis. Fitting.

[Beth]

Really? Most of the men I know think that long hair in a guy is effeminate.-same with pierced ears. But these same men, well, I have seen them with pink on. Poor guys, their wives must be dressing them.:P

Greater gender, huh? Keep thinking that Abe. You delude yourself in many, many ways.

[ApostateAbe]

godfry, the bodybuilders who take steroids, get synthol implants, or take illegal drugs are often the objects of ridicule among other bodybuilders. I can assure you that most hobby bodybuilders take only the healthy and legal supplements without anything that involves a needle. I don't know about the elite professional bodybuilders, but when they get caught, they regret it.

[ApostateAbe]

Really? Most of the men I know think that long hair in a guy is effeminate.-same with pierced ears. But these same men, well, I have seen them with pink on. Poor guys, their wives must be dressing them.:P

Greater gender, huh? Keep thinking that Abe. You delude yourself in many, many ways.Long hair on a man is a little effeminate, but not nearly as much as a pink shirt. I have long hair. If I had long hair without the muscles, I would look too feminine. But long hair with large muscles makes me look like a wild goddamn beast.

[ApostateAbe]

Y'know, Abe... I've wondered at your avatar for some time now, and all of a sudden, it makes sense. That character is in panic, searching for his nearly non-existent penis. Fitting.It is from the comic book, "Johnny the Homicidal Maniac." In the picture, he is shown in comtemplation of his bizarre and unfortunate identity.

[ApostateAbe]

Then I at least hope you learned something new this morning. Among bodybuilders, pink shirts on men are like shirts saying, "Bitch-slap me now, please."

Have you yourself adopted this attitude?That is what runs through my head, but I haven't actually bitchslapped a guy in a pink shirt.

[Beth]

Really? Most of the men I know think that long hair in a guy is effeminate.-same with pierced ears. But these same men, well, I have seen them with pink on. Poor guys, their wives must be dressing them.:P

Greater gender, huh? Keep thinking that Abe. You delude yourself in many, many ways.Long hair on a man is a little effeminate, but not nearly as much as a pink shirt. I have long hair. If I had long hair without the muscles, I would look too feminine. But long hair with large muscles makes me look like a wild goddamn beast. You do not look like a beast. You more like a country boy, as VM pointed out. If you like your hair, fine, but I think you need to get check of your over inflated ego.

[D. Scarlatti]

Please clarify.

Golf, where pink shirts are the norm, if not the rule.

[wei yau]

I'll help you understand as much as I can. Long hair is something that more appropriately crosses both genders. Manlyesque men of manly manhood can have long hair, but he can't be wearing a pink shirt. I don't mind women trying to look like men. Men are concentrated at the upper end of the social hierarchy, and women are concentrated at the lower end. For a woman trying to look like a man, she is trying to identify with the greater gender, often at the expense of her sexuality. But for a man to try to look like a woman, he is bringing himself down to the lesser gender, to the benefit of his sexuality, confoundingly.

I'll tell you what's really confounding, from point of my view. I'm amazed that you are even minimally succesful with women, that you are even interested in trying to relate with a "lesser gender".

Might I suggest donning a pink shirt and testing the waters with another of the "greater gender". Think of the possibilities, two long-haired, big muscled, wild beasts of the same powerful gender.

You'd be unstoppable! Don't settle for less, man! Go for it!

Besides, from what I hear, there are plenty of gay bodybuilders. Makes sense, actually. People of the greater gender are very visually oriented, so it stands to reason that gay men are interested in other men with HUGE muscles. It just looks better!

So, again, get yourself a pink shirt, flip up that color, cruise the local gym and discover what they really mean by "bitch slap"

[D. Scarlatti]

You delude yourself in many, many ways.

Much of it has to do with the troll sensibility. I hope.

[JoeP]

Y'know, Abe... I've wondered at your avatar for some time now, and all of a sudden, it makes sense. That character is in panic, searching for his nearly non-existent penis. Fitting.
:rofl: :hysteric: :roflmao:

[JoeP]

Please clarify.

Golf, where pink shirts are the norm, if not the rule.
Oh, that kind of foursome. :relieved:

[natasha]

There has to be more to it than that. A man putting on a pink shirt, flipping up the collar, and walking out in public is like a man taking a knife to his scrotum and lopping his balls off. Maybe you don't buy that analogy, but it can't be that pink just "looks good."
EDIT: It's that part about not giving a shit that I think hits closer to the mark.

There has to be more to it than that. A man who is so hung up on what color other men wear is like he wants to take a knife to his scrotum and lop off his balls. Maybe you don't buy that analogy, but it can't be that pink "just looks faggy" to some men.

EDIT: It's that part about giving a deep satisfying finally I'm no longer constipated shit about men who wear pink that hits closer to the mark.

[viscousmemories]

Y'know, I would never wear a pink shirt for various reasons, among them the fact that I prefer inconspicuous clothing and yeah, I think pink is effeminate and I'm somewhat insecure about my masculinity. But ironically I don't think I've ever (at least in recent memory) judged a man as even effeminate, much less homosexual, for wearing pink.

[D. Scarlatti]

Oh, that kind of foursome. :relieved:

I ought to bitchslap you for what you were thinking. As a matter of fact I think I will, so the members of the lesser gender lurking on this thread can have an orgasm.

[godfry n. glad]

Please clarify.

Golf, where pink shirts are the norm, if not the rule.
Oh, that kind of foursome. :relieved:

Not only that, plaid pants seem to be far more prevalent upon the golf courses of the world... What does that mean? Does it have anything to do with the pink shirts?

[godfry n. glad]

So, again, get yourself a pink shirt, flip up that color, cruise the local gym and discover what they really mean by "bitch slap"

Watch it, eldar. Abe's evidently got a significant "Asian fetish" going on...you'd be high upon his hit-on list.

[natasha]

Oh, that kind of foursome. :relieved:

I ought to bitchslap you for what you were thinking. As a matter of fact I think I will, so the members of the lesser gender lurking on this thread can have an orgasm.

As long as they're all wearing pink, baby!

[Adora]

Y'know, Abe... I've wondered at your avatar for some time now, and all of a sudden, it makes sense. That character is in panic, searching for his nearly non-existent penis. Fitting.
Awhhhh, don't bring 'Nny into this. He's not as bad as Abe. He solves his problems with psychotic violence, not sexism. And he has a penis.

[Alex Bragi]

As female, I think maybe other females might have voted him in on what he looked like not what, or how, he was wearing. Some men look great in pink.

Sure enough, in past, pink has been generally associated with femininity but I think most of us have moved on from all that gender specific nonsense now.

[Adora]

Obviously, not as many gals are into "saving masculinity" as are assumed to be...

[Dingfod]

I want lace on my next pink shirt, pretty frilly lace.


What? Not manly? Huh? The freaking three musketeers wore lace, I dare you to call them unmanly.

[ApostateAbe]

I want lace on my next pink shirt, pretty frilly lace.


What? Not manly? Huh? The freaking three musketeers wore lace, I dare you to call them unmanly.If you pack a saber in the leather scabbard of your belt, I won't argue with that. Similarly, the sight of a pink shirt can be innoculated at least somewhat with an assault rifle in your hands and an ammo belt slung over your shoulder.

[ApostateAbe]

Adora, it is good to see another JTHM fan; they are few. I don't think that the question of whether or not Nny has a penis can be honestly answered except by Mr. Vasqez. I wouldn't hold it against Nny if he doesn't have one. He is still cool.

[ApostateAbe]

As female, I think maybe other females might have voted him in on what he looked like not what, or how, he was wearing. Some men look great in pink.

Sure enough, in past, pink has been generally associated with femininity but I think most of us have moved on from all that gender specific nonsense now.You say "most of us," but I am not sure you know who "most of us" are. It is not those in your feminist social circle. Do you think any male politician could get elected if he wore a pink shirt in his campaign? John Kerry and John Edwards had their pictures taken making a bunch of gay-looking gestures with each other, and not even they would go as far as to wear pink shirts.

[beyelzu]

Adora, it is good to see another JTHM fan; they are few. I don't think that the question of whether or not Nny has a penis can be honestly answered except by Mr. Vasqez. I wouldn't hold it against Nny if he doesn't have one. He is still cool.
actually, abe, I love vasquez's work both JTHM and I Feel Sick.

you should keep in mind that I love comics and read all the good ones.

[beyelzu]

for the record I do think that pink looks kind of girly, I dont think that a guy is gay if he wears it, but it is not my color of choice. but then I dont dig red or purple either. the only red I own are uga shirts and hats

[ApostateAbe]

Adora, it is good to see another JTHM fan; they are few. I don't think that the question of whether or not Nny has a penis can be honestly answered except by Mr. Vasqez. I wouldn't hold it against Nny if he doesn't have one. He is still cool.
actually, abe, I love vasquez's work both JTHM and I Feel Sick.

you should keep in mind that I love comics and read all the good ones.That's awesome! I will keep that in mind. I have read only the JTHM book and seen the first episode of Invader Zim. Pure genius. I was going to rent the second episode of Zim, but some dickhead didn't return it to Blockbuster.

[Crumb]

...but some dickhead...
Are you implying that this was bey? :wink:

[beyelzu]

...but some dickhead...
Are you implying that this was bey? :wink:
yeah, I dont even have a fucking blockbuster membership,

how dare you accuse me of this, you bastard.

:tmtongue:

[beyelzu]

abe, you should really check out I Feel Sick it is very, very funny.

[ApostateAbe]

abe, you should really check out I Feel Sick it is very, very funny.My birthday is coming up. I'll buy it for myself as a gift since I doubt any of my folks will.

[ApostateAbe]

I'll tell you what's really confounding, from point of my view. I'm amazed that you are even minimally succesful with women, that you are even interested in trying to relate with a "lesser gender".

Might I suggest donning a pink shirt and testing the waters with another of the "greater gender". Think of the possibilities, two long-haired, big muscled, wild beasts of the same powerful gender.

You'd be unstoppable! Don't settle for less, man! Go for it!

Besides, from what I hear, there are plenty of gay bodybuilders. Makes sense, actually. People of the greater gender are very visually oriented, so it stands to reason that gay men are interested in other men with HUGE muscles. It just looks better!

So, again, get yourself a pink shirt, flip up that color, cruise the local gym and discover what they really mean by "bitch slap"If I could choose to be gay, eldar, I would have a hell of a good time every night. But it is certainly a matter of nature rather than choice. That is partly why I have nothing against gay men.

[Adora]

they are few.
Haha, you're kidding, right? Vasquez is one of the most popular non-mainstream comic artists in the Western world. Try the other one...

[ApostateAbe]

they are few.
Haha, you're kidding, right? Vasquez is one of the most popular non-mainstream comic artists in the Western world. Try the other one...OK, Adora, you got me there.

[seebs]

Adora, it is good to see another JTHM fan; they are few. I don't think that the question of whether or not Nny has a penis can be honestly answered except by Mr. Vasqez. I wouldn't hold it against Nny if he doesn't have one. He is still cool.
actually, abe, I love vasquez's work both JTHM and I Feel Sick.

you should keep in mind that I love comics and read all the good ones.That's awesome! I will keep that in mind. I have read only the JTHM book and seen the first episode of Invader Zim. Pure genius. I was going to rent the second episode of Zim, but some dickhead didn't return it to Blockbuster.

Get Squee (another book), too. It has stuff which was in the original JTHM comics, but cut from the compilation. Also filler bunny, if you're a completeist.

[Dragar]

For a woman trying to look like a man, she is trying to identify with the greater gender, often at the expense of her sexuality. But for a man to try to look like a woman, he is bringing himself down to the lesser gender, to the benefit of his sexuality, confoundingly.

You have unusual values.

[Dingfod]

Not that unusual... unfortunately.

[ApostateAbe]

My value of the sexual pecking order is the same value that has persisted since the dawn of humanity across every culture in the world with the exception of late 20th to early 21st century societies in western Europe, Australia and America. That isn't to justify it, but I am giving a little perspective.

[godfry n. glad]

My value of the sexual pecking order is the same value that has persisted since the dawn of humanity across every culture in the world with the exception of late 20th to early 21st century societies in western Europe, Australia and America. That isn't to justify it, but I am giving a little perspective.

Too bad, I think you're wrong. Patriarchy and the attendant male superiority thing is a modern invention, as in "with the advent of writing". Prior to that, all evidence points to a preponderance of Goddess worship, matrilineal and matriarchal societies and a more evenly distributed "sexual pecking order".

I think your "since the dawn of humanity" is bunkum.

godfry

[ApostateAbe]

My value of the sexual pecking order is the same value that has persisted since the dawn of humanity across every culture in the world with the exception of late 20th to early 21st century societies in western Europe, Australia and America. That isn't to justify it, but I am giving a little perspective.

Too bad, I think you're wrong. Patriarchy and the attendant male superiority thing is a modern invention, as in "with the advent of writing". Prior to that, all evidence points to a preponderance of Goddess worship, matrilineal and matriarchal societies and a more evenly distributed "sexual pecking order".

I think your "since the dawn of humanity" is bunkum.

godfryYou must be reading ReligiousTolerance.org. You can start a new thread on this topic if you like. EDIT: Because the topic is much too broad for this thread.

[D. Scarlatti]

No broads allowed in this thread.

[godfry n. glad]

My value of the sexual pecking order is the same value that has persisted since the dawn of humanity across every culture in the world with the exception of late 20th to early 21st century societies in western Europe, Australia and America. That isn't to justify it, but I am giving a little perspective.

Too bad, I think you're wrong. Patriarchy and the attendant male superiority thing is a modern invention, as in "with the advent of writing". Prior to that, all evidence points to a preponderance of Goddess worship, matrilineal and matriarchal societies and a more evenly distributed "sexual pecking order".

I think your "since the dawn of humanity" is bunkum.

godfryYou must be reading ReligiousTolerance.org. You can start a new thread on this topic if you like. EDIT: Because the topic is much too broad for this thread.

Never heard of it. I use my mind and read far more broadly than one internet site. In this area, I'd refer to Dr. Leonard Schlain, who puts forth his hypotheses regarding the rise of misgynistic paternalism in his popular science/social commentary books The Goddess and the Alphabet and Sex, Time and Power. I don't agree with him wholeheartedly, as he seems to give theism far more credit than it is due, but his speculations are intriguing and based in some decent research on the human animal.

I think we should just leave everything right here...where you made your pinheaded assertion.

[Dingfod]

Extremely homophobic coworker came in from the cube farm this morning with a pink shirt on. Others gave him shiatt about it (before I got a chance). He very quickly said, "It's not pink, it's salmon."

[godfry n. glad]

Extremely homophobic coworker came in from the cube farm this morning with a pink shirt on. Others gave him shiatt about it (before I got a chance). He very quickly said, "It's not pink, it's salmon."

I'd have immediately given him a skeptical look and asked if he'd eat salmon the color of his shirt.

[ApostateAbe]

Never heard of it. I use my mind and read far more broadly than one internet site. In this area, I'd refer to Dr. Leonard Schlain, who puts forth his hypotheses regarding the rise of misgynistic paternalism in his popular science/social commentary books The Goddess and the Alphabet and Sex, Time and Power. I don't agree with him wholeheartedly, as he seems to give theism far more credit than it is due, but his speculations are intriguing and based in some decent research on the human animal.

I think we should just leave everything right here...where you made your pinheaded assertion.My apologies. ReligiousTolerance.org has a page that asserts the same things you do, also citing Dr. Shlain. If you haven't taken a good look at the criticisms and the converse opinions of his writing, then I advise you to take his opinions no more seriously than my own. He is no more the expert, being a medical doctor. This weekend, I plan on writing up a thread about why I believe patriarchy has always been prevalent throughout human societies.

[Adora]

My value of the sexual pecking order is the same value that has persisted since the dawn of humanity across every culture in the world
Bull. Shit.

Try looking up some actual facts next time you make statements like this about "every culture in the world since the dawn of humanity". Seriously. I can hear the anthroplogists crying now.

[Dingfod]

Crying because the only reason for their very existence hinges on what Apostate Abe posts in an internet forum.


OK, just kidding.

[Adora]

Anthropologists: Like Baby Jesus, in a way.

[ApostateAbe]

My value of the sexual pecking order is the same value that has persisted since the dawn of humanity across every culture in the world
Bull. Shit.

Try looking up some actual facts next time you make statements like this about "every culture in the world since the dawn of humanity". Seriously. I can hear the anthroplogists crying now.There is something about the dwellers of this forum that I can't comprehend. I say a lot of wierd stuff. But there are some things I say, things that I figure are common knowledge and obvious, and I figure I don't need to back it up with research in order to just state it as fact. But then I am challenged on it as if it is crazy and ignorant and belongs in the same pile of kookyness as everything else I say. This was one of those things. I could say that patriarchy is a human universal to any other group of people I know, and nobody would disagree. Then I say it here and then I am full of BS.

[natasha]

I could say that patriarchy is a human universal to any other group of people I know, and nobody would disagree. Then I say it here and then I am full of BS.

That's because you're hanging around with the wrong crowd!:oyvey:

[Adora]

But there are some things I say, things that I figure are common knowledge and obvious, and I figure I don't need to back it up with research in order to just state it as fact.
That's because your assumptions about what is common knowledge is false. Try looking up the history of Russia sometime. Or the Gerai tribe, if you want to get really specific.

This was one of those things. I could say that patriarchy is a human universal to any other group of people I know, and nobody would disagree. Then I say it here and then I am full of BS.
Good to see you only know other people who tolerate your BS and are as disgustingly ignorant and misogynistic as you are.

[godfry n. glad]

Never heard of it. I use my mind and read far more broadly than one internet site. In this area, I'd refer to Dr. Leonard Schlain, who puts forth his hypotheses regarding the rise of misgynistic paternalism in his popular science/social commentary books The Goddess and the Alphabet and Sex, Time and Power. I don't agree with him wholeheartedly, as he seems to give theism far more credit than it is due, but his speculations are intriguing and based in some decent research on the human animal.

I think we should just leave everything right here...where you made your pinheaded assertion.My apologies. ReligiousTolerance.org has a page that asserts the same things you do, also citing Dr. Shlain. If you haven't taken a good look at the criticisms and the converse opinions of his writing, then I advise you to take his opinions no more seriously than my own. He is no more the expert, being a medical doctor. This weekend, I plan on writing up a thread about why I believe patriarchy has always been prevalent throughout human societies.

Actually, I enjoyed Sex, Time and Power and found his speculations to be compelling. However, it was not so with The Goddess and the Alphabet. As for his work, I find much of it to be a synthesis of materials I've read in other sources. And, it was engagingly put together. If you have any decent critiques, I'd love to know about them. Schlain's postulations are always up for argumentation.

However... I'm rather disappointed that you should dismiss Dr. Schlain outright as a "'mere' medical doctor". If I remember correctly, he's the Head of the Department of Laproscopic Surgery at a teaching university in San Francisco. Let me remind you that Einstein was a patent clerk.

[ApostateAbe]

But there are some things I say, things that I figure are common knowledge and obvious, and I figure I don't need to back it up with research in order to just state it as fact.
That's because your assumptions about what is common knowledge is false. Try looking up the history of Russia sometime. Or the Gerai tribe, if you want to get really specific.I did a Google search on the Gerai tribe and it yielded practically nothing. Is there a piece of literature you can recommend? Or maybe you spelled it wrong or something. Also, which part of Russian history is most relavant? EDIT: Never mind, you must mean Catherine the Great. This was one of those things. I could say that patriarchy is a human universal to any other group of people I know, and nobody would disagree. Then I say it here and then I am full of BS.
Good to see you only know other people who tolerate your BS and are as disgustingly ignorant and misogynistic as you are.I really can't imagine who you might be talking about. I am the only one I know who is nearly as disgustingly misogynistic as I am (but I know plenty who are more ignorant).

[beyelzu]

My value of the sexual pecking order is the same value that has persisted since the dawn of humanity across every culture in the world with the exception of late 20th to early 21st century societies in western Europe, Australia and America. That isn't to justify it, but I am giving a little perspective.

Too bad, I think you're wrong. Patriarchy and the attendant male superiority thing is a modern invention, as in "with the advent of writing". Prior to that, all evidence points to a preponderance of Goddess worship, matrilineal and matriarchal societies and a more evenly distributed "sexual pecking order".

I think your "since the dawn of humanity" is bunkum.

godfryYou must be reading ReligiousTolerance.org. You can start a new thread on this topic if you like. EDIT: Because the topic is much too broad for this thread.

Never heard of it. I use my mind and read far more broadly than one internet site. In this area, I'd refer to Dr. Leonard Schlain, who puts forth his hypotheses regarding the rise of misgynistic paternalism in his popular science/social commentary books The Goddess and the Alphabet and Sex, Time and Power. I don't agree with him wholeheartedly, as he seems to give theism far more credit than it is due, but his speculations are intriguing and based in some decent research on the human animal.

I think we should just leave everything right here...where you made your pinheaded assertion.


When God was a Woman is another good book on the subject. I do not remember the author's name, however.

[beyelzu]

# In Gerai, men and women are not understood as fundamentally different types of person: there is no sense of a dichotomized 'masculinity' and 'femininity'. Rather, men and women are seen to have the same kinds of capacities and proclivities, but with respect to some of these men are seen as 'more so' and with respect to others women are seen as 'more so.' Men are said to be braver and more knowledgeable about local law (adat), while women are said to be more persistent and more enduring. All of these qualities are valued. The Gerai notion of 'men's' and 'women's' work does not constitute a rigid division of labor: both men and women say that theoretically women can perform all of the work routinely carried out by men, and men can perform all of the work routinely carried out by women. However, men are much better at men's work than women are, and women are much better at women's work than men are. What we have here is a stress on identity between men and women at the expense of radical difference.

# This stress on identity between men and women extends into Gerai bodily and sexual discourses. A number of people (both men and women) assured me that men sometimes menstruate and, in addition, menstrual blood is not understood to be polluting, in contrast to the way it is seen in many societies that stress difference between men and women more strongly. While pregnancy and childbirth are spoken of as 'women's work,' many Gerai people claim that under certain circumstances men are also able to carry out this work – but, they say, women are 'better' at it and so normally undertake it. In line with this claim, I collected a Gerai myth concerning a lazy woman who was reluctant to take on the work of pregnancy and childbirth. Her husband instead made for himself a lidded container out of bark, wood and rattan ('like a betelnut container'), which he attached around his waist beneath his loincloth, and in which he carried the growing foetus until it was ready to be born. On one occasion when I was watching a group of Gerai men cut up a boar, one, remembering an earlier conversation about the capacity of men to give birth, pointed to a growth in the boar's body cavity, and said with much disapproving shaking of the head: 'Look at this. He wants to carry his child. He's stupid.' In addition, several times I saw fathers push their nipples into the mouths of young children to quieten them; while none of these claimed to be able to produce milk, people nevertheless claimed that some men in the community were able to lactate, a phenomenon also attested to in myth. Men and women are talked of as producing the same genital fluid, and this is linked in complex ways to the capacity of both to menstruate. All of these examples demonstrate the community's stress on bodily identity between men and women.

# Furthermore, in Gerai men's and women's sexual organs are explicitly conceptualized as the same. This sexual identity became particularly clear when I asked several people who had been to school (and hence were used to putting pencil to paper) to draw men's and women's respective organs for me: in all cases, the basic structure and form of each were the same. One informant, endeavouring to convince me of this sameness, likened both to wooden and bark containers for holding valuables (these vary in size, but have the same basic conical shape, narrower at the base and wider at the top). In all of these discussions, it was reiterated that the major difference between men's and women's organs is their location: inside the body (women) and outside the body (men). In fact, when I pressed people on this point, they invariably explained that it makes no sense to distinguish between men's and women's genitalia themselves; rather it is location which distinguishes between a penis and a vulva.

# 'Heterosexuality' constitutes the normative sexual activity in the community and, indeed, I was able to obtain very little information about homosexual practices during my time there. In line with the stress on sameness, sexual intercourse between a man and a woman in Gerai is understood as an equal coming together of fluids, pleasures and life force. The same stress also underlies beliefs about conception. Gerai people believe that repeated acts of intercourse between the same two people are necessary for conception, since this 'prepares' the womb for pregnancy. The foetus is deemed to be created through the mingling of equal quantities of fluids and forces from both partners. Again, what is seen as important here is not the fusion of two different types of bodies ('male' and 'female') as in western understandings; rather, Gerai people say, it is the similarity between the two bodies that allows procreation to occur. As someone put it to me bluntly: 'If they were not the same, how could the fluids blend? It's like coconut oil and water: they can't mix!'

# What needs to be stressed here is that both heterosexual intercourse and conception are viewed as involving a mingling of similar bodily fluids, forces and so on, rather than as the penetration of one body by another with a parallel propulsion of substances from one (male) body only into the other, very different (female) one. Nor is there anything in Gerai understandings that equates with the western notion of conception as involving an 'aggressive' active male cell (the sperm) seeking out and penetrating a passive, immobile female cell (the egg).[8] What Gerai accounts of both sexual intercourse and conception stress are tropes of identity, mingling, balance and reciprocity. In this context it is worth noting that many Gerai people were puzzled by the idea of gender-specific 'medicine' to prevent contraception – such as the injectable or oral contraceptives promoted by state-run health clinics in the area. Many believed that, given that both partners play the same role in conception, it should not matter whether husband or wife received such 'medicine' (and indeed, I knew of cases where husbands had taken oral contraceptives meant for their wives). This suggests that such contraceptive regimes also serve (like the practice of rape) to reinscribe 'sex' difference between men and women.[9]

# When I asked why, if conception is predicated on the mingling of two similar bodies, two men or two women could not also come together to create a child, the response was that a man and a woman 'fit' with one another [sedang]. But while there is some sense of physical compatibility being suggested here, Gerai people were adamant that what is much more important in constituting 'fit' is the role of each individual's 'life force' [semongan'], and its intimate connection to particular forms of work. The semongan' is the spiritual essence or force which animates the person, which gives the person his or her individual life. Without his or her semongan', a human being cannot live (this is true of all other elements in the universe as well), and thus when a person dies, the semongan' is understood to have left the body and journeyed away. In turn, an individual's semongan' is centrally linked to the kind of work which he or she routinely performs – particularly during the rice-cultivation cycle, which is understood as the source of life itself in Gerai.

# While Gerai people stress sameness over difference between men and women, they do, nevertheless, see them as being different in one important respect: their life forces are, they say, 'oriented' differently ('they face different ways,' it was explained to me). This different orientation means that women are 'better' at certain kinds of work and men are 'better' at other kinds of work – particularly with respect to ricefield work. Gerai people conceive of the work of clearing the large trees for a new ricefield as the definitive man's work, and regard the work of selecting and storing the rice seed for the following year's planting – which is correlated in fundamental ways with the process of giving birth – as the definitive woman's work. Because women are perceived to lack appropriate skills with respect to the first, and men are perceived to lack appropriate skills with respect to the second, Gerai people say that to be viable a household must contain both adult males and adult females. And since a 'comfortable life' is marked by success in production not only of rice but also of children, the truly viable household must contain at least one conjugal pair. The work of both husband and wife is seen as necessary for the adequate nurturance of the child and its successful rearing to adulthood (both of which depend on the successful cultivation of rice). Two women or two men would not be able to provide adequately for the child since they would not be able to produce consistently successful rice harvests; while such a household might be able to select seed, clear a ricefield, and so grow rice in some rudimentary fashion, its lack of expertise at one of these tasks would render it perennially poor and its children perennially unhealthy, Gerai people say. For this reason, households with adults of only one gender are greatly pitied by Gerai people, and single parents seek to marry or remarry as quickly as they can.

# It is the mingling of the respective life forces of a man and a woman, then – linked, as they are, to the work skills of each – which primarily enables conception to occur. It is this, Gerai people say, which allows the child's semongan' [life force] to come into being. Mingling of the parental bodily fluids, in turn, creates the child's bodily substance; but this substance must be animated in some prior sense by a life force, or the child will die.

from http://wwwsshe.murdoch.edu.au/intersections/issue6/helliwell.html


needing only a google of anthropology and gerai,

you should read the whole article it is very interesting.

[natasha]

When God was a Woman is another good book on the subject. I do not remember the author's name, however.

Merlin Stone.

I read that many years ago, remember liking it. Here's a link to the book on the amazon site:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/015696158X/002-8039137-2972045?v=glance :wave:

[beyelzu]

thank you, natasha.

[ApostateAbe]

Thank you, beyelzu.

[Adora]

EDIT: Never mind, you must mean Catherine the Great.
No, I don't, genius. Try again.

[beyelzu]

want to give me a hint, cuz I dont understand the russia comment myself.

[Adora]

Many groups of what could loosely be called 'Pre-Christian Russia' (yes, I do realise that covers a lot of land-mass) were matriachies. One group I particularly know of are the Mingrelians. That changed due to a lot of factors (not just Christianity, of course) and there's hardly any remnants of the older culture left these days.

[MooseIBe]

I have always wondered if extremely early humans weren't more matriachal than patriachal though that's just a speculation.. I don't actually know :).

[Beth]

When God Was a Woman...I gots that book! Opened up a new kinda fireworks in my home. :sigh:

[Shake]

Just gonna add my 2¢ here and say that I just don't like pink, and wouldn't own a shirt of that color for that reason.

[pescifish]

Oh, that kind of foursome. :relieved:

I ought to bitchslap you for what you were thinking. As a matter of fact I think I will, so the members of the lesser gender lurking on this thread can have an orgasm.I would like to take this moment to thank D. Scarlatti for providing a highly satisfying thread experience from start to finish. :smokingj:

Expertly played, sir! A true master.
...:qex:
:fishie:

[Dingfod]

Just gonna add my 2¢ here and say that I just don't like pink, and wouldn't own a shirt of that color for that reason.
You colorist!

[beyelzu]

When God Was a Woman...I gots that book! Opened up a new kinda fireworks in my home. :sigh:
I can imagine, but it was a good read, and thus probably worth it?

[natasha]

Many groups of what could loosely be called 'Pre-Christian Russia' (yes, I do realise that covers a lot of land-mass) were matriachies. One group I particularly know of are the Mingrelians. That changed due to a lot of factors (not just Christianity, of course) and there's hardly any remnants of the older culture left these days.

That's interesting Adora, I hadn't heard of that. I'd like to find out more.

A lot of Native American tribes are matriachal.

[godfry n. glad]

The one I know is The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future by Riane Eisler. It's been quite a while, but what I remember was that it was provocative and readable.

The popular anthropology author who seems to dominate this subject at the moment is Marija Gimbutas, whose Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe, 6500-3500 B.C.: Myths and Cult Images and The Language of the Goddess float to the top during searches on other books (like Chalice and Blade). The latter sports an introduction by Joseph Campbell.

[TomJoe]

... it seems to me that women will actually want a man wearing a pink shirt to screw them.

Well, I tell you what. Start wearing pink shirts, and then report back to us after say ... oh a months time ... and let us know what happened more: you getting laid, or you getting the ever-loving shit kicked out you.

Then, we'll have our answer.

[TomJoe]

I've been known to wear a pink shirt now and then. At first it was just because I liked the look, but when I realized that it irritated some guys that don't think heterosexual men should wear pink, that became the reason I would wear them.

I hope you wore white pants with those pink shirts ... and penny loafers without any socks. A white sport coat over the pink shirt would've been tres cool too.

[Ymir's blood]

If pink were more black, I'd wear it.

[godfry n. glad]

... it seems to me that women will actually want a man wearing a pink shirt to screw them.

Well, I tell you what. Start wearing pink shirts, and then report back to us after say ... oh a months time ... and let us know what happened more: you getting laid, or you getting the ever-loving shit kicked out you.

Then, we'll have our answer.

I think that's a capital suggestion!

[godfry n. glad]

I've been known to wear a pink shirt now and then. At first it was just because I liked the look, but when I realized that it irritated some guys that don't think heterosexual men should wear pink, that became the reason I would wear them.

I hope you wore white pants with those pink shirts ... and penny loafers without any socks. A white sport coat over the pink shirt would've been tres cool too.

Only after Memorial Day! :wink:

[godfry n. glad]

If pink were more black, I'd wear it.

So... You're one of those guys who will wear black until they come up with a darker color?

[beyelzu]

When God Was a Woman...I gots that book! Opened up a new kinda fireworks in my home. :sigh:
I can imagine, but it was a good read, and thus probably worth it?

[Ymir's blood]

If pink were more black, I'd wear it.

So... You're one of those guys who will wear black until they come up with a darker color?
That phrase is kind of funny, but a takes itself a bit too seriously. My preference is for things like, "I'm so dark I fart bats."

:bat:

[Beth]

I can imagine, but it was a good read, and thus probably worth it?Yes and no. It was worth it to read, but not worth the emotional turmoil. But then, it was because I finally showed that I did not give a shit what he thought I should or should not read and that I was not owned.
You Don't Own Me...one of the most frequently sung songs in my house now.;) I am so very glad my mommy taught me oldies.

[Beth]

"I'm so dark I fart bats."Hehe. I like this, except it's too crude for me to be comfortable saying myself. But I think I'll fight the blush and tell a buddy of mine this.

[Crumb]

I can imagine, but it was a good read, and thus probably worth it?
I can imagine, but it was a good read, and thus probably worth it?
Somebody kick bey, he's skipping.

[beyelzu]

My blackberry double posted?

[Crumb]

Well the posts were about 20 minutes apart. :scratch:

[Beth]

I figured he just really wanted a reply!

[godfry n. glad]

If pink were more black, I'd wear it.

So... You're one of those guys who will wear black until they come up with a darker color?
That phrase is kind of funny, but a takes itself a bit too seriously. My preference is for things like, "I'm so dark I fart bats."

:bat:

:roflmao:

I liiiiike it.

[godfry n. glad]

Bey! Skipping in the pink shirts? That's gonna cost ya.

[Crumb]

:chuckle:

[ApostateAbe]

Many groups of what could loosely be called 'Pre-Christian Russia' (yes, I do realise that covers a lot of land-mass) were matriachies. One group I particularly know of are the Mingrelians. That changed due to a lot of factors (not just Christianity, of course) and there's hardly any remnants of the older culture left these days.

That's interesting Adora, I hadn't heard of that. I'd like to find out more.

A lot of Native American tribes are matriachal.You happen to know which ones?

[Adora]

This site (http://www.rdos.net/eng/matr-soc.htm) lists Chippewas, Iroquois, Natchez, Creeks, Winnebagos, Cascovins, Otomacos & Fuegians.

[ApostateAbe]

This site (http://www.rdos.net/eng/matr-soc.htm) lists Chippewas, Iroquois, Natchez, Creeks, Winnebagos, Cascovins, Otomacos & Fuegians.Thank you very much, Adora.

[natasha]

Many groups of what could loosely be called 'Pre-Christian Russia' (yes, I do realise that covers a lot of land-mass) were matriachies. One group I particularly know of are the Mingrelians. That changed due to a lot of factors (not just Christianity, of course) and there's hardly any remnants of the older culture left these days.

That's interesting Adora, I hadn't heard of that. I'd like to find out more.

A lot of Native American tribes are matriachal.You happen to know which ones?

Coos for one. Many others, has Adora noted.

[ApostateAbe]

Many groups of what could loosely be called 'Pre-Christian Russia' (yes, I do realise that covers a lot of land-mass) were matriachies. One group I particularly know of are the Mingrelians. That changed due to a lot of factors (not just Christianity, of course) and there's hardly any remnants of the older culture left these days.

That's interesting Adora, I hadn't heard of that. I'd like to find out more.

A lot of Native American tribes are matriachal.You happen to know which ones?

Coos for one. Many others, has Adora noted.Thank you. Do you also happen to know the source from which you learned that the Coos were matriarchal? No big deal if you don't. But I am seriously researching this matter.

[natasha]

Thank you. Do you also happen to know the source from which you learned that the Coos were matriarchal? No big deal if you don't. But I am seriously researching this matter.

I'm part Native and work in Indian Education in Oregon. I know a lot of Coos people. . .

(Why are you "seriously researching" this?)

[ApostateAbe]

Thank you. Do you also happen to know the source from which you learned that the Coos were matriarchal? No big deal if you don't. But I am seriously researching this matter.

I'm part Native and work in Indian Education in Oregon. I know a lot of Coos people. . .

(Why are you "seriously researching" this?)I am going to start work on an article on my case for patriarchy as a human universal.

If you can be more specific with your sources, let me know.

[natasha]

Thank you. Do you also happen to know the source from which you learned that the Coos were matriarchal? No big deal if you don't. But I am seriously researching this matter.

I'm part Native and work in Indian Education in Oregon. I know a lot of Coos people. . .

(Why are you "seriously researching" this?)I am going to start work on an article on my case for patriarchy as a human universal.

If you can be more specific with your sources, let me know.

"more specific with my sources. . ." I'm not an anthropologist, lol. I know a bunch of Indians, including some from matriarchal tribes, like the Coos.

Google is a great tool. So is the library, historical societies, and the tribes themselves.

Good luck.

[ApostateAbe]

Thank you. Do you also happen to know the source from which you learned that the Coos were matriarchal? No big deal if you don't. But I am seriously researching this matter.

I'm part Native and work in Indian Education in Oregon. I know a lot of Coos people. . .

(Why are you "seriously researching" this?)I am going to start work on an article on my case for patriarchy as a human universal.

If you can be more specific with your sources, let me know.

"more specific with my sources. . ." I'm not an anthropologist, lol. I know a bunch of Indians, including some from matriarchal tribes, like the Coos.

Google is a great tool. So is the library, historical societies, and the tribes themselves.

Good luck.Thanks. I already attempted a few phone calls to the Coos tribe cultural authorities and sent an e-mail to Howard Roy, the CTCLUSI Cultural Development Coordinator. I am holding my breath in anticipation of what he has to say about it.

[Adora]

Oh yes. Of course. Patriachy is universal. I think Peggy Reeves Sanday will have rather a lot to say on that one. Maybe you should try googling her, Abe.

[beyelzu]

I googled her, very interesting. however it must be noted that

For the last century, historians, anthropologists and other scholars have searched both human history and the continents to find a matriarchy?a society where the power was in the hands of women, not men. Most have concluded that a genuine matriarchy does not exist, perhaps may never have existed.

from matriarchy.info

and this is pretty inteteresting

In the following I argue for a reconfiguration of the term matriarchy not as a construct based on the gendered division of political power, but one based on gendered divisions in the sociocultural and cosmological orders.

from http://www.matriarchy.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=73&Itemid=83

[Adora]

Ahh yes, *that* site. There's rather a lot of batshit floating around it, and I'm far too skeptical and cynical about a lot of it (especially the whole utopian view of a matriachy and Catal Huyk and such) but inbetween the batshit there are a few facts on actual Matriachal societies, such as the Chinese ones where the men raise the children of their sisters and stuff, and some good artcles, like the one you linked. Peggy Reeves Sanday's work is recognised all over the world in anthropological circles, even those that aren't part of the matriachy-agenda. I stumbled across it when looking for information about sexual violence, since anthropological studies into those that Sanday specialises in has revealed a distinct lack of it (ie- the Helliwell article on the lack of rape in the Gerai tribe). Abe can argue for a patriachal universal all he wants, but even if there are a few groups who are classified as non-patriarchal or are matriarchal, it's not universal.

That specific article you linked to is interesting not because she argues that a matriarchy is one of female rule but one of primarily feminine concepts of equality etc, because she argues rulership, inequality and hierarchical structures are a modern masculine philosophy (which I think is the basic philosophy of the site). Which is an interesting philosophy, though I'm divided over whether I agree with it or not. I also have a problem with a lot of the metaphysical and essentialist stuff she's arguing, but I think that's just cos I'm a nasty atheist and a pomo.

Just as a side note, one of the books they plug a lot on that site called "Saharasia", but after a bit of googling it was revealed that a lot of the philosophy behind it is based on Wilhelm Reich's work, and so is questionable at the very least (and batshit insane at the worst). I do agree that modern violence *is* avoidable, but, y'know, always check sources and all that.

[ApostateAbe]

I checked out several books from the library today, which were recommended by you good old boys and girls, and which included, When God Was a Woman by Merlin Stone. I started reading it, but I didn't finish the introduction before I found reason to dismiss the book outright:But the Koran of the Mohammedans was quite clear. In it we read, "Allah will not tolerate idolatry . . . the pagans pray to females."The chapter and verse is not cited. That seems to be because such a verse or any passage resembling it is not found anywhere in the Qur'an. I have asked three knowledgable Muslims, checked the Skeptic's Annotated Quran under verses that are "Insults to Women," and searched the keywords in an online searchable Qur'an. Nothing.

This is either an outright lie or sloppy scholarship that amounts to a lie. Do I have good reason to continue reading this book, or should I go on to the next?

[beyelzu]

I remember the quote as well but I haven't researched it myself

[beyelzu]

Not quite the droid I was looking for but still interestingly on topic

1. [4.51] Have you not seen those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They believe in idols and false deities and say of those who disbelieve: These are better guided in the path than those who believe.

From a section entitled women evidentally

[Dingfod]

The closest I can come with a cursory look:
Surah 53:27 - Lo! it is those who disbelieve in the Hereafter who name the angels with the names of females.

Nothing about pink shirts either.

[Adora]

This is either an outright lie or sloppy scholarship that amounts to a lie. Do I have good reason to continue reading this book, or should I go on to the next?
Give it a rest Abe. We all know you're looking for any reason to dismiss this book, so if you're actually serious about what you're doing, you won't stop reading after the first mistake.

But if this is shoddy scholarship, what about the bibliography in the back? Is there a version of the Qu'ran listen, and who is the translation by?

[ApostateAbe]

The closest I can come with a cursory look:
Surah 53:27 - Lo! it is those who disbelieve in the Hereafter who name the angels with the names of females.

Nothing about pink shirts either.Not nearly close enough. The point she was making was not to criticize Islam for being anti-female. She was trying to convince the reader that there is evidence that the ancient pagans worshipped a female Goddess.

[ApostateAbe]

Not quite the droid I was looking for but still interestingly on topic

1. [4.51] Have you not seen those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They believe in idols and false deities and say of those who disbelieve: These are better guided in the path than those who believe.

From a section entitled women evidentallyAgain, not close enough. No translator could mangle that up so much.

I am looking for a good reason to believe that lies like this one are not scattered throughout the book.

[natasha]

I am looking for a good reason to believe that lies like this one are not scattered throughout the book.

Why don't you read the book and decide for yourself?

[ApostateAbe]

I am looking for a good reason to believe that lies like this one are not scattered throughout the book.

Why don't you read the book and decide for yourself?Because I have two other books that may be more deserving of my attention--The Alphabet Versus the Goddess by Leonard Shlain, and The Chalice & the Blade by Riane Eisler.

[Adora]

Because I have two other books that may be more deserving of my attention--The Alphabet Versus the Goddess by Leonard Shlain, and The Chalice & the Blade by Riane Eisler.
The problem is, if you don't read the entire book and someone brings a counterpoint against your argument from the part of the book you haven't read which is a sound one, you're fucked.

Again, I ask, is there a version of the Qu'ran listed in the bibliography, and if so, who is the translation by?

[ApostateAbe]

Adora, I can see from the thread listing that you are posting in this thread. In case you didn't know, I have you on my ignore list. Your posts don't show up. If someone else doesn't quote you, then I won't be reading or responding to your posts.

[beyelzu]

Because I have two other books that may be more deserving of my attention--The Alphabet Versus the Goddess by Leonard Shlain, and The Chalice & the Blade by Riane Eisler.
The problem is, if you don't read the entire book and someone brings a counterpoint against your argument from the part of the book you haven't read which is a sound one, you're fucked.

Again, I ask, is there a version of the Qu'ran listed in the bibliography, and if so, who is the translation by?
for abe

[ApostateAbe]

Thank you, beyelzu.The problem is, if you don't read the entire book and someone brings a counterpoint against your argument from the part of the book you haven't read which is a sound one, you're fucked.I think I am better off waiting until someone uses an argument from the book, and then I'll research the argument. Reading a book I can't trust is wasting my time. Again, I ask, is there a version of the Qu'ran listed in the bibliography, and if so, who is the translation by?The Qur'an isn't in the bibliography from what I can tell. There are 12 pages of bibliography, so I may have missed it. But I would expect it to be listed under the "Additional References" heading, where I see three versions of the Bible listed. But the Qur'an isn't there.

[Adora]

I think I am better off waiting until someone uses an argument from the book, and then I'll research the argument. Reading a book I can't trust is wasting my time.
I don't care if someone quotes this or not, but I'd just like to point out that if someone acuses a book author of shoddy scholarship, and then does this, they're just repeating the same mistakes. Nice work Abe. :rolleyes:

[koan]

Back to the original topic (if that is desirable) and admitting that I didn't read all posts just the first and last two pages...why is a man wearing pink any different than a woman wearing blue? No one objects to the latter. As soon as a baby becomes recognizably male or female there is no reason to require a colour for identification of gender.

[ApostateAbe]

Back to the original topic (if that is desirable) and admitting that I didn't read all posts just the first and last two pages...why is a man wearing pink any different than a woman wearing blue? No one objects to the latter. As soon as a baby becomes recognizably male or female there is no reason to require a colour for identification of gender.That question was what led to all the tangential nonsense. I said that women who try to look like men are trying to belong to the greater gender, often at the expense of their sex appeal, and I can understand that. But men who try to look like women are bringing themselves down lower, strangely to the benefit of their sex appeal.

[Dingfod]

And round and round we go.

[beyelzu]

I hate it when the lesser sex tries to seem like the better one,

oh wait, I am not a misogynist.

[ApostateAbe]

I have previously described myself as a misogynist, but I don't really hate women in general. Some women are my heros. And there are some women whose company I enjoy. Masculist is a closer fit, but that is focused on advancing the rights of men, often for the sake of "equality," which isn't me. I think I'll start calling myself a "patriarchist." It is not in any dictionary, but it has been used a few times here and there, meaning, "one who advances the supremacy of men."

[justaman]

Why on earth would you want to be one of those?

[D. Scarlatti]

And round and round we go.

This time 'round he needs a translator, because he has her on ignore, dontcha know.

[Dingfod]

I'm still waiting to hear the advantages of a patriarchy.

[D. Scarlatti]

That question was what led to all the tangential nonsense.

As opposed to the vital nonsense embodied by the OP.

[koan]

I'm still waiting to hear the advantages of a patriarchy.

and an explanation of how he advances the supremacy of men. :giggle:

[D. Scarlatti]

Women don't have hairy balls.

[beyelzu]

I think I am better off waiting until someone uses an argument from the book, and then I'll research the argument. Reading a book I can't trust is wasting my time.
I don't care if someone quotes this or not, but I'd just like to point out that if someone acuses a book author of shoddy scholarship, and then does this, they're just repeating the same mistakes. Nice work Abe. :rolleyes:
what is funny is he will respond to the quoted post,

it's like ignore lite.

[beyelzu]

women cant right their name with piss in the snow, so obviously women are inferior.

piss writing being one of the benchmarks of civilization, the bedrock of our society and all that.

[Adora]

women cant right their name with piss in the snow, so obviously women are inferior.
Ha! That's what you think! I have the Shee Pee!

[Beth]

Does it snow down under? It doesn't here, so I would never have need to pee in the snow.

[beyelzu]

damn, I just googled shee pee,

I had no idea that there was a device that allowed women to pee standing up.

I guess I will have to change my misogynist ways.

:tmgrin:

[pescifish]

You can buy a product at outdoor recreation stores (REI, Sport Chalet out here) that acts as a funnel to direct the woman's pee stream while standing up.

And we still don't have to deal with hairy balls. Well except, that is, when we want to! :cat:

[Adora]

Beth: Yes, there are some areas of Australia that get snow every year. Not a lot, but they're big with the tourists when they do. Jindabine and places like that.

[Carlos]

My congratulations to the author of this thread.
His OP is a good example of reasoning about colors.

I`ve been lurking this thread because the "pink " stuff.

Some posters think it is irrational (most in this modern age) to associate pink with gays or with feminity.

I use to work with colors because of my particular work.
I once was invited to do a conference about "colors" at some cultural institute. I've done my own research and particular investigations during my travelings on my youngest years.

I was always fascinated with the colors itself. The different coloquial meanings , how some cultures relate colors with emotions (... I feel "blue") , how some cultures have a lot of denominations for colors in their own common language , other cultures have just a few, Put your mind on black , put your mind on white, etc, etc.
For example : in my country we have "celeste" instead of light blue , but in Colombia they use "light blue".

Do we use rationallity in our preferences or reactions to colors?
No at all.
We use our "feelings".

About pink. Why associated to feminity in so many cultures?
I have four children.
Everytime my wife was preagnant , we didn't want to know by echo the sex of the baby inside her. We always wanted the surprise.The doctor knew that.
It is part of our general or common culture to buy "pink" dress to the girls or "blue" to the boys to be born.
As usual,in all four births, I always waited until the baby was born to go running and buy their first clothe ( usually at the same maternity).
Guess what color I always bought?
WHITE.
My wife always told me , why you didn't buy blue?(in the case of the boys) or why you didn't buy "pink" (in the case of the girl).
I responded: They looked so pure, white is OK.

Some families , in our same case, always buy YELLOW. a color that seems to fix to both sexs.

But PINK, PINK LIPS......it is so sexy! Ok, to me.
I like to see women mouth painted with PINK instead of red.

But why pink and feminity?

Let me tell you my theory.

Man and woman. Naked. Cape Age. Many ratial skins ( no matter the color).

What they have in common?

Men will ever want that "little pink treasure" women have.
You know where.

Thanks,
Carlos

[beyelzu]

so it's blue balls and pink vagina?

[Carlos]

so it's blue balls and pink vagina?
How old are you?
You still don't have access to that little treasure?
Take a look of the color. Turn on the light.

Thanks,
Carlos

[beyelzu]

actually it was a pun based on the concept of blue balls and using your suggestion that pink is considered womanly because of the color of a vagina.

I thought the idea was kind of cute.

I am only twelve sir and how dare you accuse me of being juvenile :tmgrin:

[beyelzu]

"Blue balls" is a slang term referring to testicular aching that may occur when the blood that fills the vessels in a male's genital area during sexual arousal is not dissipated by orgasm.
from http://health.discovery.com/centers/sex/sexpedia/blueballs.html

[Adora]

Actually, pink is womanly because in ancient Rome, parents who had an unwanted girl-child would wrap her in red to attract the attention of the Gods, and therefore "be taken off their hands", if you catch my drift. Boys were wrapped in the "good" colour of blue, because the parents didn't want them taken by the deities because males were better off in society and therefore benefitted the family more.

Over the years, red faded to pink, and thus, we dress baby girls in pink, and baby boys in blue. Personally, I think they should all just be purple XD.

[Beth]

Beth: Yes, there are some areas of Australia that get snow every year. Not a lot, but they're big with the tourists when they do. Jindabine and places like that.
Thanks for the info, hon.

[ApostateAbe]

That was a great contribution, Carlos. I always thought pink looked feminine because of culture.

[beyelzu]

If you were to take adora off ignore you would see a far more interesting line of reasoning

[ApostateAbe]

If you were to take adora off ignore you would see a far more interesting line of reasoning It is unfortunate that I have to miss many of her interesting thoughts, but it isn't worth sacrificing the pleasure I experience at this forum.

[Adora]

He's just afraid I'll point out the flaws in his messed-up arguments.

[godfry n. glad]

so it's blue balls and pink vagina?
How old are you?
You still don't have access to that little treasure?
Take a look of the color. Turn on the light.

Thanks,
Carlos

Hey... You're right! But y'know what? I have a little pink treasure, too! And mine's far more obvious than hers.

[Beth]

Carlos, I think you are wrong about the origin of pink for girls, but I enjoyed the story about your children.

[seebs]

I have a problem with the ancient Rome argument, simply because I have been assured that, about a hundred years ago, girls were blue and boys were pink. It is hard to imagine adopting an ancient Roman custom so recently.

[livius drusus]

I read the same thing, seebs. This (http://www.marketingtowomenonline.com/pink.htm) little article quotes a newspaper in 1914 advising readers:

"If you like the color note on the little one's garments, use pink for the boy and blue for the girl, if you are a follower of convention." [The Sunday Sentinal, March 29, 1914.]

That had to have changed over the next 20 years or so, because by WWII the Nazis were making convicted homosexuals wear pink triangles just as they were making Jews wear the double yellow inverted triangles of the Star of David. It seems to me unlikely that the Nazis would pick the boy color as a gay symbol, but I don't really know what their reasoning was.

[Carlos]

Carlos, I think you are wrong about the origin of pink for girls, but I enjoyed the story about your children.

Hi Beth:
I am glad you enjoyed the story.

About the origin of pink as a feminity color, let me tell you that is really an hipothesis ( well a kind of Carlos's theory) not regarding pink only for baygirls dressing. I am looking more beyond , to relate it to feminity, to explore the reasons.

I heard what Adora ( hi!) brought on topic about the roman legend. What is hard to believe is the transcission from red to pink. Also many cultures all around the world were apart and never knew about romans at all.Liv and Seebs have interesting arguments about it.

What happenned before ancient Rome and "pink"?

That is the reason of trying to dig on men minds.
There is a theory that women ( and sexuallity) was the first deity mankind had . I am talking about stone age.

Why women?
Imagine those primitives on a cave, the women preagnant , the baby is coming, look over there! why she? There is another life coming from inside her! She must have extra powers! And I put my .....inside it!

After some days , the same man wants to explore "the treasure" , take a look closer.
And the treasure was PINK.Really Pink.
And the first word was : PINK !!!!!

Thanks,
Carlos

P.S.
Yes , I am laughing too, writing this stuff.