Why Different Soaps?

[viscousmemories]

In another thread, Roland mentioned that one of the reasons we wash our hands with soap is to remove stains. I've always wondered about soap. Like, why do we have dish soap (for the sink), dish soap (for the dishwasher), laundry soap, hand soap, floor soap, counter soap, etc. Is there any real difference? Does it really make sense to spend money on 20 different kinds of soap for your house, or can a handful of different soaps fill all your purposes?

[Roland98]

Well, I really don't want to wash my clothes in whatever crap is in the cleaner I use for my tile floors. :eek: And I've never tried it, but I thought dish soap bubbled up too much for the washing machine or something. And personally, I generally use dish soap (for the sink) also for hand soap. For the rest, I'm sure liv can quote you the ingredients in all of them and why there are different. :) And you don't really have 20 different kinds of soap, do you?

[livius drusus]

Hey! Um... Yeah, okay. I probably can. But still, how rude to point at my nerdy bits in public like that.

[viscousmemories]

Well, I really don't want to wash my clothes in whatever crap is in the cleaner I use for my tile floors. :eek: And I've never tried it, but I thought dish soap bubbled up too much for the washing machine or something. And personally, I generally use dish soap (for the sink) also for hand soap. For the rest, I'm sure liv can quote you the ingredients in all of them and why there are different. :) And you don't really have 20 different kinds of soap, do you?
Well okay, not 20. But I do have bar soap for use in the shower, dish soap and dish "detergent" (not sure what the difference is between soap and detergent, actually), Pine-Sol for the floors, Murphy's for the wood, more "detergent" for laundry, then there's of course Soft Scrub and Comet... hmm. That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

I guess I think like this 'cause I was a welfare kid. Seriously we didn't have like paper towels, kleenex, toilet paper and napkins growing up. The only paper we had was toilet paper (for butts and noses) and everything else was taken care of with cloth towels. Similarly, I don't remember having a dozen different cleaning products, but then I don't remember cleaning either. :P

[dave_a]

Well okay, not 20. But I do have bar soap for use in the shower, dish soap and dish "detergent" (not sure what the difference is between soap and detergent, actually), Pine-Sol for the floors, Murphy's for the wood, more "detergent" for laundry, then there's of course Soft Scrub and Comet... hmm. That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

I guess I think like this 'cause I was a welfare kid. Seriously we didn't have like paper towels, kleenex, toilet paper and napkins growing up. The only paper we had was toilet paper (for butts and noses) and everything else was taken care of with cloth towels. Similarly, I don't remember having a dozen different cleaning products, but then I don't remember cleaning either. :P

Later this month I am taking a soapmaking class at the local community college for fun. From what I understand all soaps are basically lye and a fatty substance. It's the amount of lye and the fatty substance that determine the properties of the soap from hard or soft, harsh or mild etc. The rest seems to be tinting, scenting and form (bar, liquid, granular).

Also some fat sources lather up more than others and most handsoap bars are intended to lather up while clothes and dish soap use different fat sources to lather less.

anyway, hopefully I will know more specifics when I get done with the class.

[viscousmemories]

Later this month I am taking a soapmaking class at the local community college for fun. From what I understand all soaps are basically lye and a fatty substance. It's the amount of lye and the fatty substance that determine the properties of the soap from hard or soft, harsh or mild etc. The rest seems to be tinting, scenting and form (bar, liquid, granular).

Also some fat sources lather up more than others and most handsoap bars are intended to lather up while clothes and dish soap use different fat sources to lather less.

anyway, hopefully I will know more specifics when I get done with the class.
Interesting. Well I knew part of that from watching Fight Club :P but I didn't know all of it. I look forward to hearing more after you learn more.

[lisarea]

Later this month I am taking a soapmaking class at the local community college for fun. From what I understand all soaps are basically lye and a fatty substance. It's the amount of lye and the fatty substance that determine the properties of the soap from hard or soft, harsh or mild etc. The rest seems to be tinting, scenting and form (bar, liquid, granular).

Also some fat sources lather up more than others and most handsoap bars are intended to lather up while clothes and dish soap use different fat sources to lather less.

anyway, hopefully I will know more specifics when I get done with the class.

Significantly, though, most dish and laundry 'soaps' aren't really soap at all, but detergents, which are, IIRC, petroleum based. I think some bar 'soaps' are detergent as well, too. If you use actual soap in laundry, it tends to leave your clothes dingy and kind of stiff, so you have to add an extra rinse with vinegar or something, plus a softener. Same thing for shampoo. Using soap on your hair leaves it icky.

I used to make soap sometimes, and the differences basically are what kinds of oils you use, and the additives. You can add scrubby bits, smelly bits, coloring bits, etc. For example, a kitchen soap might have orange and coffee grounds, to neutralize odors and scrub your hands thoroughly (that's my secret recipe), while you might use a plain castile (olive oil based) soap in the shower. Cocoa butter makes a denser lather, so it makes a nice bath soap or something. Also, there's plain and French milled, which is just plain soap, grated up then reconstituted. It's longer-lasting because it sets harder the second time around, and I believe it's supposed to be milder.

[Dingfod]

Let me tell all of you that I know first hand that dish soap, like Dawn or Palmolive, foam far too much to use in the dishwasher, at least in an amount that fills the soap dispenser in the dishwasher. I personally did not do it, but I had used dish soap instead of dishwasher detergent, but used only a small amount. I related this to my wife, who told our oldest daughter to just use dish soap. That was nearly an industrial accident. It looked like a scene from an I Love Lucy episode. I had to use the Shop-Vac to clean up all the suds. So, in my completely non-expert opinion, laundry and dishwasher detergents must have anti-foam chemicals in them that keep their suds to a minimum.


Sidetrack:
About 9 years ago, we bought a water softener and a reverse osmosis water filter system from a company that included a whole bunch of products like shampoo, degreaser, all-purpose liquid soap, window cleaner solution, laundry detergent, and, of course, water softener salt; 10 years supply, they said. I'm inclined to believe it very nearly was 10 years worth. We took delivery of the boxes of 1 gallon jugs of shampoo, degreaser, liquid soap, and window cleaner right away. They issued coupons good for the salt and the laundry detergent and we would pick it up at their warehouse when we needed it. I passed those coupons off to the new owners of the house when we moved.

Nine years later, we still have most of 1 jug left of the liquid soap, which we use to fill the pump bottles in the bathrooms and the much used and occasionally replaced squeeze bottle in the kitchen. There are most of two gallons of window cleaner left; we don't do windows, I guess. And, we have about 1-1/2 gallons of shampoo left, which we don't use for hair shampoo because it's just too harsh. It does work well for washing cars though.

Between that and the 10 pound container of Quick-N-Brite I bought about that same time, I don't know what we're going to do when we run out. Buy some more soap, I guess. I suppose it would be cool if there were one product that would do everything. Wait, Quick-N-Brite (http://www.quicknbrite.com/about.htm) is just about all you need.

[seebs]

Hey, that reminds me.

I have a huge collection of soap-shards - the last little bits of a bar of soap.

I am convinced that it should be possible to make a new bar of soap from them, and get some use from them, but HOW?

[lisarea]

Hey, that reminds me.

I have a huge collection of soap-shards - the last little bits of a bar of soap.

I am convinced that it should be possible to make a new bar of soap from them, and get some use from them, but HOW?

Melt them with a little water, over low heat, then pour the soap soup into molds, and let dry until they're a soap consistency. You can use just about anything for molds, as the soap isn't caustic anymore, but you'll probably want it to be relatively non-stick.

Piker.

[Ymir's blood]

Hey, that reminds me.

I have a huge collection of soap-shards - the last little bits of a bar of soap.

I am convinced that it should be possible to make a new bar of soap from them, and get some use from them, but HOW?
Easy, soak them in water, then squeeze them together. It won't be pretty but it will hold.

[livius drusus]

I knew I should have uploaded that Amish smilie.

[Ymir's blood]

I knew I should have uploaded that Amish smilie.
and a cheapskate one for me...

[JoeP]

This thread. :forgetful: I meant to say I think soap and detergent are similar but detergent has oil-binding sites at both ends of the molecules whereas soap only has one, therefore doesn't "cut through the grease" as well. Confirmation, anyone who remembers their chemistry or still uses it?

Floor cleaners generally have some component of ammonia NH4 or bleach NaOCl or H2O2. That's not soap and will strip out oils deep inside your skin not just surface dirt.

Within true soap I think the differences are just fragrance, colour and density (ie will it dissolve if not kept in a dish out of a pool of water). Oh and the cost of the packaging and branding.

Ashes and lye anyone?

[lisarea]

Within true soap I think the differences are just fragrance, colour and density (ie will it dissolve if not kept in a dish out of a pool of water). Oh and the cost of the packaging and branding.

There are other differences. Different oils and fats have different qualities. Olive oil (castile soap) makes big bubbles, whereas you'll get a denser lather with smaller bubbles from coconut oil, and a whole bunch of other things I can't remember. When I made soap, I usually had at least a couple different kinds of oils for their different qualities. And double or French-milled soap is remelted and redried, which makes it denser and longer-lasting for some reason. You can even stir in air bubbles before molding it to make it float like Ivory.

Basically, you're right. Soap is just saponified oils or fats, sometimes with additives, but the types of ingredients you use and methods you use to make the soap can make a fairly big difference in the end product.

I don't know about that other boring stuff you were talking about before. I think that was some math or something.

[viscousmemories]

I don't know about that other boring stuff you were talking about before. I think that was some math or something.
I never know how to start a sentence with lol. Is it Lol or lol or LoL? The first just looks wrong, the second of course is just not proper grammar, and I don't know what the third is. Anyway...

Lol. That's pretty much exactly what goes through my mind when people start busting out the symbolism in mid-sentence.

[livius drusus]

Mmm... Organic chemistry... :homer:

[JoeP]

I don't know about that other boring stuff you were talking about before. I think that was some math or something.
Well I wasn't talking to you then. :tongueout: :tongueout: :tongueout:
I don't know about that other boring stuff you were talking about before. I think that was some math or something.Lol. That's pretty much exactly what goes through my mind when people start busting out the symbolism in mid-sentence.
Nor you :shakefist:

[JoeP]

Soap is just saponified oils or fats, ...That smacks of circular definition.

saponify:
1. To convert (an ester) by saponification.
2. To convert (a fat or oil) into soap.

No help there.

Caution: the rest of this post may contain boring stuff.
saponify

v 1: become converted into soap by being hydrolized into an acid and alcohol as a result of being treated with an alkali; "the oil saponified"
2: convert into soap by hydrolizing an ester into an acid and alcohol as a result of treating it with an alkali; "saponify oils and fats"

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap)'s the real biz:Soap is a surfactant cleaning mixture used for personal or minor cleaning. It usually comes in solid moulded form. Synthetic detergents have superseded soap as a laundry aid.

Soaps are mixtures of sodium or potassium salts of fatty acids which can be derived from oils or fats by reacting them with an alkali (such as sodium or potassium hydroxide) at 80°-100 °C in a process known as saponification. The fats are hydrolyzed by the base, yielding glycerol and crude soap.
...
Use
Although the word soap continues to be used informally in everyday speech and product labels, in practice nearly all kinds of "soap" in use today are actually synthetic detergents, which are less expensive, more effective, and easier to manufacture.

Soaps are useful for cleansing because soap molecules attach readily to both nonpolar molecules (such as grease or oil) and polar molecules (such as water). Although grease will normally adhere to skin or clothing, the soap molecules can attach to it as a "handle" and make it easier to rinse away.

And this is saponification:Saponification is the hydrolysis of an ester under basic conditions to form an alcohol and the salt of the acid.

Saponification is commonly used to refer to the reaction of a metallic alkali (base) with a fat or oil to form soap.



Ooh ... lovely ... Soap Mummies

Saponification can also refer to the conversion of fat and other soft tissue in a corpse into adipocere. This process is more common where the amount of fatty tissue is high, the agents of decomposition absent or only minutely present, and the burial ground is particularly alkali.
Those are bath beads that were his eyes (Wm. Shakesoape)

[Petra]

Let me tell all of you that I know first hand that dish soap, like Dawn or Palmolive, foam far too much to use in the dishwasher, at least in an amount that fills the soap dispenser in the dishwasher. I personally did not do it, but I had used dish soap instead of dishwasher detergent, but used only a small amount. I related this to my wife, who told our oldest daughter to just use dish soap. That was nearly an industrial accident. It looked like a scene from an I Love Lucy episode.

I've done it. I turned the dishwasher on, and then went out for awhile. An I Love Lucy episode is an appropriate image. And it's something you only ever do once. :eek:

[LadyXoc]

I'm ashamed to admit I buy different kinds of soap just because they smell pretty.

[livius drusus]

There's nothing to be ashamed about, LadyXoc. Things that smell pretty rule.

[LadyXoc]

There's nothing to be ashamed about, LadyXoc. Things that smell pretty rule.

I embrace my shallowness! LOL

[Bella]

I happened across a Cascade product for plastics (like Tupperware and Rubbermaid) while hunting for Electrosol the other day. The label said that this product would take away those nasty red stains left in your plasticware by tomato sauces, et cetera. It was somthing like $3.99 for a little squeezy container, so I passed on by. Anyone try it? Like it? No?