How Honest Are You On The Internet?

[Petra]

I think I'm pretty much me, as you see me. I can swing between moods, I can be irreverent and foul mouthed, I can be sweet and poetic. Many of you know what my real name is, you kinda know my daughter, what my 'marital' status is, my age, my nationality, many of my hopes and fears, and many of my successes and failures/strengths and weaknesses. I don't think I've ever lied when asked a direct question, though I may occassionally decline to answer. Oh, and sometimes I'm a little deluded, and I've been known to be quite gullible.

Now all of that is possibly too much in some people's eyes, but I feel quite safe. Those I have built up friendships with, I trust - just as I build friendships and trust in the real world. I cannot deceive a friend on the internet any more than I could a friend in real life. You are more than just text on my screen, you are people. Real people, sharing something of yourselves with me, and I with you. It's a beautiful thing. Even when we disagree, or have our little "episodes". You are real; and I am real.

Which leads me to ask why some people are driven by the need to deceive others on the internet, even when building friendships with them? Do they do this to the people they meet and develop friendships with in their off-line life; or are they honest people in real life, and are only playing a role when they are online? I wonder where that need comes from? Is it the thinking that we are all alter-egos when on-line, each playing a different character in whatever movie is playing in our minds, so it doesn't really matter? Or like it's all a big game of Sims, or D&D, only not everyone knows they are in a game? Do they simply forget that we are more human than these mere pixels can represent?

I'd love to do a study on honesty and the internet, and how it impacts on people's trust in the offline world. It'd be pretty impossible to gather accurate data, though. How would you possibly know who is being truthful with you in the study and who isn't?! lol. Sure is some fascinating psychology, I reckon.

Well, that's today's Saturday afternoon musing for you. What do you think about the internet and honesty/trust?

[freemonkey]

I'm pretty much myself online, at least I think I am. You won't usually see what I think of as my more negative personality traits because I have time to think before I "speak". I'm also normally a somewhat private person, but I certainly would never intentionally deceive anyone about myself.

[wildernesse]

Interesting, freemonkey. I would say that I'm as much myself online as off--but I would say that my more negative personality traits show up much more online. I'm more sarcastic, confrontational, impatient, and hot-tempered than I am in real life--which is simply because I don't have to deal with the person face to face or long term. I can walk away from a forum (really!) or completely ignore a person without too many negative personal consequences. But those traits are me as I really am--I don't think that my husband or close family are or would be surprised by me online.

Frankly, I don't think I am capable of the effort that it would take to create a deceitful online persona. I simply don't have the interest or discipline it would take to keep it up for the 2+ years that I've been wildernesse on boards and in chat etc.

[viscousmemories]

Good questions, Lunachick. I dunno. I try to be very straightforward and honest, but that doesn't mean my online persona is necessarily an accurate representation of who I am. For example I labor over the grammar, spelling, style, and substance of every single post I write, and worry a lot about how I come across and what people think of me.

Of course I'm the same way in real life, but in real life there isn't time for all the careful planning of words, so I think I come across as much more rigid and formal in my online interactions than I really am.

On the other hand I also used to be much more open about my personal life, sexual interests, etc. and I'm not anymore. As cliche as it sounds I honestly feel like certain aspects of my existence are cheapened by exposure, so there are things I just prefer not to talk about now. It's not at all that I'm prudish by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just more private than I used to be.

I have never deliberately lied to anyone, pretended to be someone I'm not, started a discussion just to make waves, etc. though. I used to lie and steal like a fiend when I was a teenager, but I put that behind me. Even when I played a dwarf character who was a Ranger of Gondor in a role playing game I played it as myself. Of course it was my first RPG so I didn't really get the whole concept of role playing, but even months into it I was still saying 'Hi' to people and asking them where they're from IRL etc. when I should've been acting.

Blah blah blah. Sorry, it's past my bedtime and I'm just rambling. :yawn:

Okay edited because I cross-posted with wildernesse and I swear on a stack of hotcakes she stole these words right outta my mouth and made me forget:

I'm more sarcastic, confrontational, impatient, and hot-tempered than I am in real life--which is simply because I don't have to deal with the person face to face or long term. I can walk away from a forum (really!) or completely ignore a person without too many negative personal consequences. But those traits are me as I really am--I don't think that my husband or close family are or would be surprised by me online.

[freemonkey]

I'm more sarcastic, confrontational, impatient, and hot-tempered than I am in real life--which is simply because I don't have to deal with the person face to face or long term.

I am the opposite. I'm more like that IRL. Except for the confrontational part.... I'm more belligerent than confrontational.

[Goliath]

I try to be myself online. However, conversations that would've gone in real life like this:

Me: "X"

Other Person: "Yep, I can see your point."

instead go....

Me: "X"

Other Person: "Huh?! Why would you say 'Y'?!"

Me: "I didn't say Y. I said X."

OP: "Z?!?!? That's awful. Why are you being so mean?"

Me: "*sigh* No, read what I write! I wrote 'X'."

OP: "Ah, N is it, now? Shifting the goalposts, are we?"

Me: <fighting the urge to find out where this fuckstick lives, pick them up by their neck and scream "X!!!!" until my throat gives out> "No. READ I didn't say Z,Y, or N. I said "X"! "X", godfuckingdamnit! "X"!!!

OP: Christ, you don't have to be so angry.....

[seebs]

I try to just be myself. I do filter things some, but then, I do that with people in real life some.

[Ex-zombie]

I have to be myself since I am too lazy to remember lies.

[JoeP]

I post under my real name and I'm not into building a fake persona. I have registered on some sites under a made-up name but only to see what it's like to feel anonymous - sometimes I wonder what I'm missing out on by not "role playing" more. But I do feel honest - if I'm role-playing I make that clear (except to idiots, of course).

I suppose I interact on forums much as I do in real life: not around all the time, more into snappy responses than long rambles, and preferring a playful approach to an argument that has become too serious. RL friends would probably recognise me as being me.

But I'm not particularly open. IRL I am very reserved about revealing sensitive things to people I don't completely trust, and it can be easier on the net - without the risk of an instant response of pity or withdrawal. But I'm very sensitive of things posted in open forums staying "on the record" indefinitely, and the risk of the people concerned finding them.

[Petra]

Well, I for one, do not believe your name is Joe. :P


Thanks for your replies, guys. All food for thought. I'll elaborate after I've returned from the farm - I'm going tomorrow morning to take Zoe over - I might stay the night there, but prolly not.

Till then, cincin!

....and try to stay true. :yup: :cool:

[Farren]

I'm 99% honest and where I'm dishonest it's by ommission, not commission. I use my real name everywhere on the net (not to imply people normally pick nicks to decieve, just to indicate that I like being me online in every respect).

I'm embarrasingly honest about 99% of stuff in real life, even stuff I'm ashamed of, so I have little fear about peeps reading stuff online about me that I haven't told half the world face to face anyway.

I must admit I occassionally do just not talk about some shit I'm embarrassed about but its very rare and if shit like that emerges accidentally my attitude is "no use crying about it now - move along".

My ex always used to say honesty is the best defence against everything because if people have an issue with your shit you can deal with that up front and it never comes back to haunt you or catches you unawares. I agree wholeheartedly.

And Luna, I wouldn't have believed a word if you said you were dishonest online (oh crap, liar's paradox). You're waaaaay to spontaneous. You just can't fake that.

[Gawen]

What you see...or rather read about me, concerning me, thoughts and views, etc....is what you get in real life. But there's a great deal that you all have NOT read because I have not written it. And frankly, many of you will never get to know the rest of me. Honestly.

Funny...a line from Pirates of the Caribbean comes to mind:

Me? I'm dishonest. And a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly… stupid. Jack Sparrow

Don't know why that popped into my head....just did...*shrugs with a grin*

[HelenM]

I don't think I'm intentionally different on the Internet. I think different people see different sides of me and this has more to do with the personalities and interests than the medium through which we communicate.

Helen

[Roland98]

Funny...a line from Pirates of the Caribbean comes to mind:

Me? I'm dishonest. And a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly… stupid. Jack Sparrow

Don't know why that popped into my head....just did...*shrugs with a grin*

Yeah, funny, that. (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/member.php?u=11494)

I also am just too lazy to keep track of a web of lies, so I'm sometimes way too honest online. Many of you know my real name; I've sent some people journal articles I've written, linked people to my book, readily tell where I work and what I do, and even with my oh-so-common last name, am google-able if you add a few extra words with my name related to my work or my schooling. I'm sure if someone searched all my posts between all the forums I post on, you'd have most of my life story from childhood to the present. I just don't understand the idea of making up a persona, I guess. If I'm going to discuss something, I'm going to discuss it from my POV, which means relating my own experiences and background to the topic. Which I couldn't do if I was fake online.

Of course, the problem with this thread, or anything online, is that the reader is just taking the poster's word on it. I can say I'm honest as the day is long, but in the end, you're really just left with my word--take it or leave it. It's just one more circular argument--I am not lying. Since I'm not lying, I must be telling the truth. Of course, to believe me, you must assume I am telling the truth in the first place. And even the little verifications (for example, you could find the name I've given on my workplace's site; but maybe I just stole that person's identity) can be misleading. So I guess like everything else, you should keep a flashing "buyer beware" sign on in the back recesses of your mind. 'Course, that then leads to a certain level of cynicism. Though my posts may say otherwise, for the most part, I'm not a cynical person; I like to believe that people are generally not horrible. I dunno. Maybe it's just time for me to cast off that assumption and just believe the worst about people until proven otherwise.

You're waaaaay to spontaneous. You just can't fake that.

You may be surprised what you can fake. Some people are just amazingly talented liars.

[Hugo Holbling]

You may be surprised what you can fake. Some people are just amazingly talented liars.

I have known many people online who lie and employ all kinds of tortuous logic to justify it to themselves and others. Nevertheless, i hope you realise that no amount of such instances alters the genuine friendship of those who have the courage to be honest. :comfort:

[pescifish]

I don't have time to be someone else. I'm just barely managing to be me given the standard hours in a day. I figure I should get being me right first before I try being something I'm not. Also, I don't know how to be someone else, no matter the venue. Sometimes I wish that wasn't the case, but like Popeye, "I yam what I yam."

[Brimshack]

I think I can honestly say that I am as honest on the net as I am in real life, which is generally pretty good. The fact is that I am often a little more open here than I am in real life, partly because I don't have to face any of you people on a daily basis. I don't care if you know some things about me that I would normally hold back from others. I can't say that I've never deceived anyone, because I know there are contexts about which I will practice a degree of disemblance, but they are personal anyway, and I don't think they've come up. I honestly can't remember lying on any of the boards on which I regularly participate.

(All subject to the cynical caveats mentioned by Roland.)

Edited to add: I just remembered that when the Free Conservatives Board membership decided I was gay, I let them go on believing that so that I could flirt with a homophobe and see what kind of reaction I got. That was dishonest, but I also wasn't going to give them the satisfaction of trying to prove I was straight.

[Beth]

Let's just say I need to learn to shut my big fat mouth. I'm too honest when I'm upset.

[godfry n. glad]

The name has been changed to protect the guilty.

What you read is what you get with me. I've been told that my writing comes across a lot more harsh than the same material presented face to face...I guess it's the facial expressions. I guess I wear a smirk or impish grin much of the time IRL.

Otherwise, the crotchety, antiauthoritarian, disagreeable, confrontational, painfully honest and often exaspirating codger with a finely honed sense of indignation you deal with here is pretty much me. I've been banned for pointing out that another poster was a liar. I don't like liars.

I've lied in my day, but don't find it worthwhile much any longer.

godfry n. glad

[viscousmemories]

Edited to add: I just remembered that when the Free Conservatives Board membership decided I was gay, I let them go on believing that so that I could flirt with a homophobe and see what kind of reaction I got. That was dishonest, but I also wasn't going to give them the satisfaction of trying to prove I was straight.

You don't have to pretend here, Brim. You're among friends now. :yup:

[pzmyers]

Those who have met me in person know that I'm actually a frolicsome 18 year old girl, 38-22-34, who's into spontaneous lascivious acts with strange men I meet. The cantankerous persona is just an act to keep you damned internet perverts from constantly harassing me.

If only you know how hard I have to work to keep from getting all bubbly and spicing up my posts with multiple exclamation points and sappy smilies...

[Gawen]

[QUOTE=Gawen]
Funny...a line from Pirates of the Caribbean comes to mind:

Don't know why that popped into my head....just did...*shrugs with a grin*

Yeah, funny, that. Was it? Or is there something else behind those three words?...*Cheshire cat grin*

I also am just too lazy to keep track of a web of lies, so I'm sometimes way too honest online. I'm approaching 50 years old and STILL I am naive about things. You'd think after being shit on so umpteen times, I'd learn. But no. I STILL take peoples words for what they say.

I just don't understand the idea of making up a persona, I guess. Wrong venue for that here.

Of course, the problem with this thread, or anything online, is that the reader is just taking the poster's word on it. I was waiting for this to come out. Since I've been in ii, ff and hh, I can think of perhaps a 1/2 dozen people that know me, but not all of me...yet. Past experiences puts me on guard. But what you all have seen of me here is so far the truth. Those of you that are making the Gathering and meet will know this to be true...unless you're a very heavy skeptic.

You may be surprised what you can fake. Some people are just amazingly talented liars.You got that right!!

[viscousmemories]

Those who have met me in person know that I'm actually a frolicsome 18 year old girl, 38-22-34, who's into spontaneous lascivious acts with strange men I meet. The cantankerous persona is just an act to keep you damned internet perverts from constantly harassing me.

If only you know how hard I have to work to keep from getting all bubbly and spicing up my posts with multiple exclamation points and sappy smilies...
You're not as good at hiding it as you think.

Hmm, maybe we should add that "convert vowels to flowers" hack after all...

[Farren]

...Maybe it's just time for me to cast off that assumption and just believe the worst about people until proven otherwise.

You're waaaaay to spontaneous. You just can't fake that.

You may be surprised what you can fake. Some people are just amazingly talented liars.

Wow, such cynicism from one of the last people I expected it from!

Personally I trust most of the peeps here as in I would happily throw myself at their mercy if ah was to go walkabout to the various countries of members.

I think context informs a great deal. People often decieve when they have a motive and as excellent they may be at presenting a false front, motive is usually easy to discern. If you're not interacting with people for sex or money, chances are far less you're going to end up befriending sicko perverts or thieves.

So if your primary interaction with peeps is just shooting the breeze and sharing life experiences with no obvious motive to achieve the more compelling human goals that render people irrational and compromise their judgement, I do believe you're more likely to be getting a fairly accurate picture of others on the net.

I have tremendous faith in human nature, diluted only by a modicom of context-sensitive cynicism informed by 35 years of experiencing the best and worst of people.

[JoeP]

If only you know how hard I have to work to keep from getting all bubbly and spicing up my posts with multiple exclamation points and sappy smilies...
:D thank God!!! for that!!! :P

[JoeP]

Those who have met me in person know that I'm actually a frolicsome 18 year old girl, 38-22-34, who's into spontaneous lascivious acts with strange men I meet. The cantankerous persona is just an act to keep you damned internet perverts from constantly harassing me.

If only you know how hard I have to work to keep from getting all bubbly and spicing up my posts with multiple exclamation points and sappy smilies...
You're not as good at hiding it as you think.

Hmm, maybe we should add that "convert vowels to flowers" hack after all...
Or Austrian flags?

[Roland98]

I have known many people online who lie and employ all kinds of tortuous logic to justify it to themselves and others. Nevertheless, i hope you realise that no amount of such instances alters the genuine friendship of those who have the courage to be honest. :comfort:

:kisscheek: Thank you. And I do realize that. The problem still remains that really, how do we know who is being honest here? Until recently, I never really doubted anyone's story on a forum, for reasons like Farren mentioned:

So if your primary interaction with peeps is just shooting the breeze and sharing life experiences with no obvious motive to achieve the more compelling human goals that render people irrational and compromise their judgement, I do believe you're more likely to be getting a fairly accurate picture of others on the net.

I would have agreed with that. But who's to say that's actually someone's motivation? That there's no other motive?

I guess I'd be more suspicious of someone on a dating site, since they are essentially selling themself, and as such, may be exaggerating or outright lying to impress someone. But I do wonder now what the frequency of that happening on sites like this one is as well.



(And really, I'll shake this cynicism soon, I promise...Probably. I hope.)

[Goliath]

(And really, I'll shake this cynicism soon, I promise...Probably. I hope.)

I think I know of a cure for that cynicism:

:glomp2:

:D

[Ronin]

I am me.

I've presented myself online as I have always been, complete with in-depth personal history.

I have also evolved over time and within the vacuum of an online "internet" realm.

I am still me.

[Adora]

I'm one of those horrible people who lies a lot online. *shrugs* I do it IRL too, but never anything serious. Just bullshit white lies that don't mean anything & never anything that can hurt people. If you really need to though, online it's easier to make them bigger and more serious, and it does take a certain amount of cunning and intelligence to do it. I've seen some hilarious dramas around that involve people doing crazy shit online and off. Really, you wouldn't believe some of them... I'd never go that far though.

I don't really have a motive to it all (I'm not trying to rip anyone off, in other words), I just don't feel like there's any point to telling the truth when I can have more fun with a story and a lie. People who I am true friends with I tell the truth to online and offline 98% of the time, and I keep them seperate from the places where I lie and create a character, which is important. And I find it incredibly easy to do it in these places, just because I don't care that much about my interactions with the individuals there as I do with the people that I do care about.

And this isn't a liar's paradox post (or is it?). I do care about you guys (or do I?). :D

But getting back to the serious stuff (or am... nevermind) I never feel like I do it more online than I do offline. Maybe I've just been faking in areas of my life for too long and it's become habit. Even when I am "myself" or a vaguely likable person IRL I always feel like I'm playing a game and creating a facade that isn't really me. So when I am in certain states online sometimes it feels even more real and true to who I really am a lot of the time when I am offline. There are communities I can move in online and environments I can exist in that feel more natural and enjoyable to me but at the same time there's the same amount I enjoy offline. Yet I do a lot of faking in both worlds. Well, actually, it's all one-world, isn't it? So whatever happens when I am offline is the same online and vice versa, because it's all one reality. So I guess that's just how I am.

[JoeP]

But getting back to the serious stuff (or am... nevermind) I never feel like I do it more online than I do offline. Maybe I've just been faking in areas of my life for too long and it's become habit. Even when I am "myself" or a vaguely likable person IRL I always feel like I'm playing a game and creating a facade that isn't really me. So when I am in certain states online sometimes it feels even more real and true to who I really am a lot of the time when I am offline. There are communities I can move in online and environments I can exist in that feel more natural and enjoyable to me but at the same time there's the same amount I enjoy offline. Yet I do a lot of faking in both worlds. Well, actually, it's all one-world, isn't it? So whatever happens when I am offline is the same online and vice versa, because it's all one reality. So I guess that's just how I am.
Creating a facade - been there, done that. Feeling like you couldn't be accepted for you who are; there are always bad things that have to be hidden. I'm sure you're way more than "a vaguely likable person"! :glomp2: But just putting it that way is a sign of a gap in self-confidence (and I'm talking from personal experience here, not making a claim about you).

You're right, it's all one reality. Not many people are completly honest IRL.

[Penni]

I don't lie online, but I don't honestly feel that my online persona is an accurate representation of my offline persona. I am way more sloppy online; ironic since one certainly has the opportunity to be more careful and precise. BUt, there it is, I'm pretty sloppy about what I say and how I say it. I just type really, really fast and hit post before I re-read it even once, usually.

Also, I am nervous about revealing too much of my "true" self online. Not because I don't trust the participants (you guys), but because a lot of people in life still think it's weird to have an active online life and I just don't have the energy to explain anything to IRL friends that stumble upon me on the net. Furthermore, and far more importantly, I would never want someone from a different setting to see me on the net. Not because I am faking stuff and they would catch me, but because it feels like an invasion of privacy. Like I was having a conversation with you and later found out all my other friends were hiding in the closet listening. Perhaps I am paranoid but there's nothing I hate more (ok, a little too dramatic there) than when people find out something about me (facts, opinions, ideas) that I didn't tell them specifically which means they got it through some, IMO, unfair means.

So, in retrospect, I have been thinking recently that I should not have used my real name here. Luckily, if you google just my real first name you do get other results, but if you add my last name, all you get is me, baby. Given that this is a public forum, I wish I had used something more anonymous. So, see, it's not that I don't want you all to know anything about me, it's that what I reveal is what I feel safe with you guys about. Thinking about future people coming and finding it out makes me nervous, because maybe I wouldn't want to reveal it to THEM.

This is why anonymity is important on the internet. Still, I see no reason to create a false persona. I think I would get bored with it. Being honest is much more thrilling (for the paranoid reasons above, maybe?)

[Farren]

I would have agreed with that. But who's to say that's actually someone's motivation? That there's no other motive?


I think it may be easy for some people to fake mundane facts but its very hard for people to fake in-depth knowlege of a particular world-view or technical proficiency.

So if someone says "I'm a C++ programmer" then proceeds to discuss a lot of technical C++ topics in a way that requires understanding (you can't just look up the answer on Google, say, because its a unique technical problem), you can be pretty much certain they're a C++ programmer.

Similarly, if someone says "I'm a Buddhist" or "I enjoy reading Nietzsche" they may be able to google stuff about it on the Internet, but without understanding they'll often quote hopelessly out of context or convey a complete misinterpretation of the philosophy online.

Lastly there's the classic lie-detector method for discerning bullshit artists utilised in tests like the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Profile test, where someone produces a different and contradictory answer to the same question phrased in different ways at different times. If the incidence of such slips is only ocassional, it indicates a normal amount of lack of certainty about ones own ideas and beliefs, but when its continuous it is a big warning sign that someone is deliberately lying a lot.

Since tests with lie-detector quesitons can can actually pick up even a smart pathalogical liar, the capacity for bullshit even in talented individuals (like certain marketing people I personally know) is easily detectable if you can untangle what they've said over time and offset it against itself.

That doesn't ensure that you can always evaluate the factual nature of a lot of information (like someone saying "I went to the fair yesterday"), but it does provide you with ways of evaluating the sincerity of people you deal with in terms of their overall world-view and beliefs, which can then give you a clue as to how much to trust their factual statements.

I don't think anyone on the planet is smart enough to fake all aspects of their humanity for a sustained period of time and time usually informs you one way or the other who you're really dealing with.

[viscousmemories]

Perhaps I am paranoid but there's nothing I hate more (ok, a little too dramatic there) than when people find out something about me (facts, opinions, ideas) that I didn't tell them specifically which means they got it through some, IMO, unfair means.
That's kinda funny, 'cause I love it when people know stuff about me that I didn't tell them. It means people have been talking about me, which means I made an impression. I don't like it when what they've heard are lies or misrepresentations, but then I figure they can always ask me for clarification themselves if they're interested, and if they don't bother then they aren't worth my being concerned what they think of me. So it's all good.

As an aside, just say the word and we'll change your name to whatever you want. :)

[Roland98]

I would have agreed with that. But who's to say that's actually someone's motivation? That there's no other motive?


I think it may be easy for some people to fake mundane facts but its very hard for people to fake in-depth knowlege of a particular world-view or technical proficiency.

So if someone says "I'm a C++ programmer" then proceeds to discuss a lot of technical C++ topics in a way that requires understanding (you can't just look up the answer on Google, say, because its a unique technical problem), you can be pretty much certain they're a C++ programmer.

Unless, say, they spent some time working with and talking to a C++ programmer, plus read about it on the side, and just happens to be one of those damn people that can soak up information like a damn sponge and remember everything they learned.

Similarly, if someone says "I'm a Buddhist" or "I enjoy reading Nietzsche" they may be able to google stuff about it on the Internet, but without understanding they'll often quote hopelessly out of context or convey a complete misinterpretation of the philosophy online.

Sure--if they talk about that online, and someone who knows a decent amount about Buddhism or Nietzsche is talking to them about it. But if they just casually mention it and don't discuss those particular things very much (or discuss them with someone like me who doesn't know all that much about either Buddhism or Nietzsche), they probably won't be caught.

Lastly there's the classic lie-detector method for discerning bullshit artists utilised in tests like the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Profile test, where someone produces a different and contradictory answer to the same question phrased in different ways at different times. If the incidence of such slips is only ocassional, it indicates a normal amount of lack of certainty about ones own ideas and beliefs, but when its continuous it is a big warning sign that someone is deliberately lying a lot.

Since tests with lie-detector quesitons can can actually pick up even a smart pathalogical liar, the capacity for bullshit even in talented individuals (like certain marketing people I personally know) is easily detectable if you can untangle what they've said over time and offset it against itself.

Sounds like it takes a lot of analysis. And it may be useful for someone who you already suspect may be a liar, but it's not something you'd apply to everyone you know, is it? Especially someone from whom you'd never really noticed any glaring red flags?

That doesn't ensure that you can always evaluate the factual nature of a lot of information (like someone saying "I went to the fair yesterday"), but it does provide you with ways of evaluating the sincerity of people you deal with in terms of their overall world-view and beliefs, which can then give you a clue as to how much to trust their factual statements.

But then, what if they're accurate in their world-view and beliefs, but the rest of their statements are total lies?

I don't think anyone on the planet is smart enough to fake all aspects of their humanity for a sustained period of time and time usually informs you one way or the other who you're really dealing with.

Perhaps not all aspects of their humanity. But I have no doubt that enough of them can be completely faked, over a decent amount of time, without anyone noticing. No doubt whatsoever.

[Penni]

That's kinda funny, 'cause I love it when people know stuff about me that I didn't tell them. It means people have been talking about me, which means I made an impression. I don't like it when what they've heard are lies or misrepresentations, but then I figure they can always ask me for clarification themselves if they're interested, and if they don't bother then they aren't worth my being concerned what they think of me. So it's all good.


That boggles my mind, vm. :buggin: maybe it's the introvert in me, or just the conspiracy theorist. I used to think I was a total attention whore, but I'd much rather people not talk about me at all. Doesn't it just freak you out; what they might be saying or discovering?

on a related note, this is one of the reasons why I am never going to get married. I have this feeling no one would really show up to the ceremony and if they did, I wouldn't want them talking about it or staring at me and making judgments!

[Gawen]

Take for instance the "Worst Meal" thread. I was being honest when I said C-Rations were my worst meal.

But then lisarea said "Your Mom" to which I replied and you all now know I can have a very putrid humour factor. That's true too. But I heard I was just plain evil. Nawwww....I'm :innocent:

Funny....when I write *gigglin*...or *chucklin*...or *wavin*...or any other description of gestures or what I'm doing at the moment, that's true as well.

[viscousmemories]

I would have agreed with that. But who's to say that's actually someone's motivation? That there's no other motive?


I think it may be easy for some people to fake mundane facts but its very hard for people to fake in-depth knowlege of a particular world-view or technical proficiency.

So if someone says "I'm a C++ programmer" then proceeds to discuss a lot of technical C++ topics in a way that requires understanding (you can't just look up the answer on Google, say, because its a unique technical problem), you can be pretty much certain they're a C++ programmer.

Unless, say, they spent some time working with and talking to a C++ programmer, plus read about it on the side, and just happens to be one of those damn people that can soak up information like a damn sponge and remember everything they learned.
That reminds me of the Steven Wright joke about how he's convinced that someone broke into his apartment during the night, stole everything he owns and replaced it with exact replicas. :D Which is to say, what does it matter if the person really is a C++ programmer if he has all the knowledge required to be a C++ programmer?

I know what you mean, though. I hate being lied to even if it has no real bearing on my life whether someone is being honest. It just creeps me out. I wouldn't even think of joining a forum I had previously participated in using a different name, for example. I mean in one sense it's not really dishonest if I never claim not to be who I am or use my anonymity for evil, but yeah, I'd still feel like I was being deceptive. Come to think of it, when I changed my character name in one of the MUD's I used to play, I used to tell everyone my old name when I met them for that reason. Of course most people didn't give a shit, but that's a whole other story.

[viscousmemories]

That boggles my mind, vm. :buggin: maybe it's the introvert in me, or just the conspiracy theorist. I used to think I was a total attention whore, but I'd much rather people not talk about me at all. Doesn't it just freak you out; what they might be saying or discovering?
Well, that makes more sense to me now (at this point in my life) but I've previously been very open about all the personal details of my life to everyone I meet, so it was never a concern to me that some people might know anything about me that everyone didn't already. Even now there is really nothing I'm afraid of anyone finding out. There are some people I've met online that disgust me to the point that I'd prefer they weren't even thinking about me much less talking about me, but again they fall into the "Not worth worrying about" category for me.

on a related note, this is one of the reasons why I am never going to get married. I have this feeling no one would really show up to the ceremony and if they did, I wouldn't want them talking about it or staring at me and making judgments!
Huh. Well I can definitely relate to that but I'm extremely insecure and you don't strike me as insecure at all, so that's a bit weird to me.

[Lauri D]

I'm 99% honest and where I'm dishonest it's by ommission, not commission. I use my real name everywhere on the net (not to imply people normally pick nicks to decieve, just to indicate that I like being me online in every respect).

I'm embarrasingly honest about 99% of stuff in real life, even stuff I'm ashamed of, so I have little fear about peeps reading stuff online about me that I haven't told half the world face to face anyway.

I must admit I occassionally do just not talk about some shit I'm embarrassed about but its very rare and if shit like that emerges accidentally my attitude is "no use crying about it now - move along". Ditto, ditto and ditto (except the part of using my real name as a nick everywhere, although I'm pretty free about using it within posts even if my handle is something else).

It's never really occurred to me to create any elaborate alter-ego online, probably because from the very start of being involved in discussion boards, I always made an effort to - and enjoyed - meeting people IRL when possible. Which would sort of throw a monkey wrench into the works if I'd lied about anything obvious.
My ex always used to say honesty is the best defence against everything because if people have an issue with your shit you can deal with that up front and it never comes back to haunt you or catches you unawares. I agree wholeheartedly. YES! This has long been my theory.

With regard to *other people*, it's kind of weird, I am generally pretty trusting, take other people's representations at face value unless my "spidey sense" is activated right from the beginning - but I also ultimately reserve judgment (keeping in the back of my mind that the person could be full of shit) until I feel confident based on a number of factors.

[Dingfod]

I've been lying to all of you all along. I'm not actually an unhappy troubled overweight balding middle-aged middle-class white man living in Oklahoma, I'm actually a 32 year old slender and fairly attractive dark complected woman raised as Jewish in Brooklyn (adopted), then made a fortune daytrading in high tech stocks, retiring at age 28 to Isla Barra, but bored quickly with the leisure-class lifestyle and decided to pretend to be someone else on the internet just for fun. But, now I must go and write another big fat check to George W. Bush and those good god-fearing Republicans. Ciao, mis amigos!

~or not~

I AM RAMTHA, 35,000 YEAR OLD WARRIOR.
I SPEAK THROUGH WARRENLY TO WARN ALL
OF YOU UNBELIEVERS THAT YOU BEST GET
YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER BEFORE I RETURN TO
RAIN DEATH UPON YOUR HOUSE.

[Gawen]

I've been lying to all of you all along. I'm not actually an unhappy troubled overweight balding middle-aged middle-class white man living in Oklahoma, I'm actually a 32 year old slender and fairly attractive dark complected woman raised as Jewish in Brooklyn (adopted), then made a fortune daytrading in high tech stocks, retiring at age 28 to Isla Barra, but bored quickly with the leisure-class lifestyle and decided to pretend to be someone else on the internet just for fun. But, now I must go and write another big fat check to George W. Bush and those good god-fearing Republicans. Ciao, mis amigos!

~or not~

I AM RAMTHA, 35,000 YEAR OLD WARRIOR.
I SPEAK THROUGH WARRENLY TO WARN ALL
OF YOU UNBELIEVERS THAT YOU BEST GET
YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER BEFORE I RETURN TO
RAIN DEATH UPON YOUR HOUSE.Wow. Marry me? I don't care if you send Bush money. And I don't care if you really DO live in Oklahoma...*chucklin*

But if you're Ramtha...forget it. Too old for me. And it speaks volumes that Warrenly hasn't the strength of mind to throw you out of his mind...unless of course Warrenly is really a 32 year old slender and fairly attractive dark complected woman, etc., etc., etc. I might be able to look past the Ramtha thing... :yawn:

[JoeP]

With regard to *other people*, it's kind of weird, I am generally pretty trusting, take other people's representations at face value unless my "spidey sense" is activated right from the beginning -

Would that be this :spidey: sense?

Spiderman Senses Danger
http://images5.theimagehosting.com/spidey.1.gif

[Gawen]

There are some people I've met online that disgust me to the point that I'd prefer they weren't even thinking about me much less talking about me, but again they fall into the "Not worth worrying about" category for me. Man, ain't that the truth?? But ya know, I sometimes wonder if I've really disgusted other people and what they think of me as well. I mean, I KNOW I've pissed people off. But have I disgusted or offended someone (because of my personality) to the point that they wouldn't talk to me? I really have no idea. I like to think I haven't.

[viscousmemories]

There are some people I've met online that disgust me to the point that I'd prefer they weren't even thinking about me much less talking about me, but again they fall into the "Not worth worrying about" category for me. Man, ain't that the truth?? But ya know, I sometimes wonder if I've really disgusted other people and what they think of me as well. I mean, I KNOW I've pissed people off. But have I disgusted or offended someone (because of my personality) to the point that they wouldn't talk to me? I really have no idea. I like to think I haven't.
Oh well I don't even have to wonder about that. More than a couple have been kind enough to tell me as much and more than a couple others don't do a very good job of pretending otherwise. Do some searches on my name in the various administrative fora and the MCR at IIDB if you want some hints as to who those people might be. :D

Again, though, it doesn't really matter to me. I know I have an abrasive personality and I've apologized and tried to make amends whenever I've offended someone or went overboard with being stubborn and tenacious. But I realize I can't force anyone to like me so I just concentrate on the friends I've made online who do. Or who at least pretend to really well. :)

And Joe, that Spiderman picture made me laugh out loud. :D

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I'm probably more honest online than I am in real life (beside the fact that I post under a psuedonym, of course :D).

I certainly don't call my parents "cult members," for example, even though that's exactly what they are. I don't censor myself online (though many think I should :D) the way I do in real life, depending on the circumstances, of course. I don't mean that I lie in real life; let's just say I'm not as socially indifferent in real life as I am online.

The way I sees it? If you're dishonest with me, then you lose. It doesn't really effect me one way or the other, ultimately, so if you think you need to lie to me to impress me or engage me or attack me or whatever, it's your character flaw for doing so, not my character flaw for believing you.

I'm skeptical, of course, but to paraphase either Shakespeare or Bacon, depending on how you come down on that issue, the truth will out, so whatever gains one may think they garner when lying just serve all the more to detract once its discovered. And it's always discovered. One way or another.

[Farren]

Ditto, ditto and ditto (except the part of using my real name as a nick everywhere, although I'm pretty free about using it within posts even if my handle is something else).

It's never really occurred to me to create any elaborate alter-ego online, probably because from the very start of being involved in discussion boards, I always made an effort to - and enjoyed - meeting people IRL when possible. Which would sort of throw a monkey wrench into the works if I'd lied about anything obvious.
....

I knew you'd agree :D

In the context of what I was just saying to Roland, I'd couldn't imagine any discernable alterior motive you'd have for painstakingly documenting your deconversion online or going to the trouble of posting stories (like "butterflies") which obviously took some effort to write and reveal something about your character.

One has to assume the worst about human nature to assume that even a reasonable proportion of people interacting online are total con artists. Its not just an issue of the possibility of deception its also about the probability. When I look at the many people I know and have known in the flesh, I can only imagine maybe 5% of them being deliberately deceptive online for any purpose other than lighthearted mischief.

Like, uh, why, exactly, would someone spend tons of time discussing athiesm, moderate an athiest forum, administer another, take the time to document their deconversion in a thoughtful way and so on and so on over a period of years, if they weren't, really an athiest? I'm sure there are possible scenarios (the CIA spying on godless americans, hehe) but there are a vast number of people who are athiests and would have a more obvious and non-deceptive motive, which means the probabilty of someone being who they say you are in such a case is extraordinarily high.

[viscousmemories]

Hey Koy, :welcome:

[Petra]

What wonderful responses you've all given this topic. Thank you so much for sharing what you think, and more importantly what you feel.

It's funny, despite the differences between some posters - ie: freemonkey and wildernesse's responses on the first page - I can find something in each of you that mirrors my own feelings and that I completely understand and empathise with.

Farren said: "I wouldn't even think of joining a forum I had previously participated in using a different name, for example. I mean in one sense it's not really dishonest if I never claim not to be who I am or use my anonymity for evil, but yeah, I'd still feel like I was being deceptive."

At IIDB, I've had 3 - yes, 3 - different names. I do feel a little deceptive, but I also have my reasons. I have been lunachick for years, everywhere on the net. Recently, however, I needed to exorcise some demons and talk about some things that are very personal and very painful, so I created an account to do that with. Many of you have probably seen posts by me at Heathen Hangout in the support forum, and you will see them being edited right back to nothing and me telling myself to just shut the fuck up, even though those posts never really made it to what I needed to get off my chest, they just alluded to it. But I went a bit more nuts than usual recently, and not in a good way - so much so I'm on medication - and needed to speak. I couldn't do that as lunachick, for reasons that are too painful, so I created an account. I won't tell you the name of that account as it's private. LOL; that probably sounds silly - "private" - when it's posted on a great big public internet forum, but that's okay. There are a couple of you that know, and I trust you not to tell. In my dizzying "illness", I needed to escape lunachick - not from here, I am comfortable with lunachick here - but at IIDB. So I created another account to pursue discussions with, as I couldn't stand to see my name anymore. (Lunachick is a nickname I've had since I lived in London - many years before I discovered the internet). Anyway, cut a long story short - my new name there is deja voodoo. Deja voodoo has no baggage. She is a clean page. :)

But this is not so much what I was talking about in my OP. I was talking more about such intentional and hurtful deceptions such as seducing people into love when you are already married but presenting yourself as single, for example. Or seducing someone into love and telling them that you are a different age, or gender, or whatever. The kinds of deception that can only end in tears. The things that hurt. Why do people do this? Don't they understand the cruelty of their deception? How do they justify it, reconcile it, with themselves? Is it an illness? Why, why do they do this?

[Petra]

Oh, and welcome, Koy! 'Bout time you showed up. :D

And where is my PM reply at IIDB, eh? You haven't told me what you've been up to, and I'm feeling impatient!

[viscousmemories]

Farren said:
That was me, and I wasn't even pretending to be Farren. :)

FWIW I think your reasons for wanting to separate yourself from your previous ID are perfectly valid.

But this is not so much what I was talking about in my OP. I was talking more about such intentional and hurtful deceptions such as seducing people into love when you are already married but presenting yourself as single, for example. Or seducing someone into love and telling them that you are a different age, or gender, or whatever. The kinds of deception that can only end in tears. The things that hurt. Why do people do this? Don't they understand the cruelty of their deception? How do they justify it, reconcile it, with themselves? Is it an illness? Why, why do they do this?
Ah, well there I can't help ya. All I can say is I'm sure there as many reasons people are dishonest online as offline. Relationships are complicated, and things are never black and white. Some people are just dogs and some people make a wrong turn and lose their way back home. I don't think it's possible to answer the question one way for everyone. Every person and circumstance is different than every other. Unfortunately all you can do is live and learn.

[Petra]

Farren said:
That was me, and I wasn't even pretending to be Farren. :)Ooops, sorry. :blush:

Are you sure you weren't trying to deceive me into believing you were Farren? I dunno. I just don'trust ya. :p

FWIW I think your reasons for wanting to separate yourself from your previous ID are perfectly valid. Thank you, vm. :hug:


Ah, well there I can't help ya. All I can say is I'm sure there as many reasons people are dishonest online as offline. Relationships are complicated, and things are never black and white. Some people are just dogs and some people make a wrong turn and lose their way back home. I don't think it's possible to answer the question one way for everyone. Every person and circumstance is different than every other. Unfortunately all you can do is live and learn.

I guess so. Nonetheless, the psychology of why someone would do this fascinates me. And my heart goes out to those who are hurt by the deception - including the heart of the deceiver, as I'm sure they must be hurting in some way, too. (Not that that excuses anything, mind you!)

[freemonkey]

Anyway, cut a long story short - my new name there is deja voodoo. Deja voodoo has no baggage. She is a clean page. :)
Oh, you pick the coolest names!

But this is not so much what I was talking about in my OP. I was talking more about such intentional and hurtful deceptions such as seducing people into love when you are already married but presenting yourself as single, for example. Or seducing someone into love and telling them that you are a different age, or gender, or whatever. The kinds of deception that can only end in tears. The things that hurt. Why do people do this? Don't they understand the cruelty of their deception? How do they justify it, reconcile it, with themselves? Is it an illness? Why, why do they do this?
I think maybe either those people are immature and think its a "funny" game, or they are sociopaths, or there i$ $ome profit to be made. :(

[viscousmemories]

Thank you, vm. :hug:
You're welcome. :hug: I'm glad you didn't say, "Thanks for giving me your approval you sanctimonious prick!" :)

[Petra]

Oh, you pick the coolest names!Thanks, freemonkey! :)


I think maybe either those people are immature and think its a "funny" game, or they are sociopaths, or there i$ $ome profit to be made. :(

I agree. :(

But, thinking about it further, I also think some people do this almost pathologically, and become lost in their own fantasies of what they wish they were; and when online, where they can more easily deceive themselves, they try to 'live it' vicariously through the character of their username. They actually mean no harm, but just can't stop themselves. Unfortunately, whether they mean no harm or not, they sure can cause harm.

People are strange.

[Petra]

I'm glad you didn't say, "Thanks for giving me your approval you sanctimonious prick!" :)

I almost did! :giggle:

[viscousmemories]

I'm glad you didn't say, "Thanks for giving me your approval you sanctimonious prick!" :)

I almost did! :giggle:
Hehe.

I wouldn't have blamed ya. I realize I state my opinion about the morality of a particular action or statement all the time and people think I'm judging them or trying to impose my moral opinion on them. Really it's just a statement of my own subjective feeling about a thing, and I'm very open to having my opinions challenged.

So anyway all that is to say that I wasn't passing judgement on you, I was just saying that despite my original claim that I viewed joining a forum under a pseudonym inherently deceptive, I thought your reasons were perfectly valid. :)

[Ymir's blood]

I'm pretty much the same person online as IRL except much less reserved and less sullen. Online, if I'm in a bad mood, I can wait till later before responding. IRL, that isn't always an option. (my bad moods are REALLY bad) IRL, I walk a fine line between shy and antisocial, hopefully I don't come off the same way online.

I have generally picked my usernames to be something dark or sinister but I don't then try to 'roleplay' that. It has always seemed to me that a well though out username is more honest than the name given by one's parents. It can represent who we are or maybe who we want to be rather than who our ancestors were.

But, thinking about it further, I also think some people do this almost pathologically, and become lost in their own fantasies of what they wish they were; and when online, where they can more easily deceive themselves, they try to 'live it' vicariously through the character of their username. They actually mean no harm, but just can't stop themselves. Unfortunately, whether they mean no harm or not, they sure can cause harm.
That makes sense to me. Being online gives them a forum to act out their fantasies as well as isolating them from the harm they do to others.

[Ronin]

People are strange.

So, you've found your answer.

:wink:

Humans are fragile in any environment.

Still, it should be apparent that this medium is one that lends itself to unverifiability. An actual human heart should not be so wagered here...though I'm not so sure the FCC or the Surgeon General will be getting involved any time soon.

I'm for living the fantasy myself.

Come on and lie to me.

:popcorn:

[Petra]

Come on and lie to me.

:popcorn:

Call yourself Pinoccio and you can lie to me! :D

Anyway, I gotta head out for a little while, so I'll have to lie to you later. heheh. Can't wait!
:choices:

[Ymir's blood]

Come on and lie to me.

:popcorn:

I am lying to you now. :liar:

[Petra]

I wouldn't have blamed ya. I realize I state my opinion about the morality of a particular action or statement all the time and people think I'm judging them or trying to impose my moral opinion on them. Really it's just a statement of my own subjective feeling about a thing, and I'm very open to having my opinions challenged.

So anyway all that is to say that I wasn't passing judgement on you, I was just saying that despite my original claim that I viewed joining a forum under a pseudonym inherently deceptive, I thought your reasons were perfectly valid. :)

LOL, vm, you're funny. I was just kidding in my response. :D I've been wandering around quote mining these last couple of evenings - might head off in a minute to do some more; I wanna see what people like Kandinsky or Kahlo or Miles Davis had to say about life, art and everything :) - and I found one by Katherine Mansfield that I'd like to pass on to you as a wee gift:

"I always felt that the great high privilege, relief and comfort of friendship was that one had to explain nothing."

:)

[Adora]

Names are important and strange things to me. On my entire online experiences over about... 7 years or so, I've gone through about 9 different "base" names. By "base" I mean a name I start with and then make variations of depending on where I go. At any give time I may use 3 different ones on 3 different places, or variations of one into the other. I'm currently using "Adora" and changing variations of it around the places where I chat/post/interact. Except for one very old forum I still hang out on where I use one of my First Ever Pseudonyms for practicality's sake, and a website where I use a name similar to one of my 'Adora' names (but lacking the 'Adora' part) just to fit in with the theme of the site better.

The only place I use my real name is on my university email, or in my emails to close personal friends.

They're like snakeskins though. Sometimes you just grow out of one and need a new one because you're changing into a different part of your life. Or maybe chameleon skins. Do chameleons shed their skins? I dunno.

Does this count as lying though?

[Petra]

Does this count as lying though?

No.

That counts as evolving.

:)

[Dingfod]

Me lie online? Inconceivable!

Other screennames I've had at various boards:
Goes-hmmm
DogmaCat
lost_in_place

Confession is good for the soul: I've lied online, but only about being a redneck (sorry Brim). What kind of redneck would not have a rifle rack in my pickup truck or a Confederate flag anywhere at all?

[HelenM]

Does this count as lying though?

I don't think it's lying simply to change your screen name. I've seen other people do that because they've decided the old name doesn't fit anymore.

If someone asked you whether two usernames are both you and you denied it, then you'd be lying.

Helen

[copiae]

I don't think it's lying simply to change your screen name. I've seen other people do that because they've decided the old name doesn't fit anymore.

If someone asked you whether two usernames are both you and you denied it, then you'd be lying.

Helen


When I joined IIDB, it was under the moniker of copiae. Later, after my .... distaste for the theist-bashing at IIDB grew and I left it (I know, some of you left for the opposite reason, but one of the benefits of neutrality is impartiality), I felt a desire to rid myself of that nickname... So I chose peer - a nickname used in IRC as a joke a few years ago.

Unfortunately, I am about to get sodding late for uni, so I'll leave it at this, but when I get back, I'll actually answer the question (Sometimes I actually do that, believe it or not :D) .


[EDIT]

Well, I am so late, I may as well not bother attending the first class. So, I will answer the question.

How honest am I on the internet? About as honest as I am in 'real life', I would say: I have a kind-of warped moral code when it comes to lieing... You will never hear/see me explicitly lie, but often what is heard and what is said are not the same thing.

The motivation behind it is benevolent - e.g. a friend shows me thier new car, which I think is a bloody stupid investment (and a horrible vehicle), and ask me what I think about it. I would typically respond with something along the lines of "Ooh, new car? Nice colour! ... I've heard that the clutches are reliable in this model... Its got a suprising amount of power, doesnt it?" Etc. It is not what I truly think, but they are true thoughts. I just see no reason for clouding over thier enjoyment of thier new vehicle, which they obviously like.

If there is a pressing need for me to cloud thier enjoyment (e.g. they are about to buy the horrible car), I will still not say anything explicitly. Rather, I would er, indirectly question them (So, what made you want to buy a car now?... Is it really a good idea to purchase a car when you still have a $45,000 gambling debt owing to Mike 'the Slasher' Cognetti?... Why this model?... Have you looked at the new and improved X?... etc). I find that doing this is better for both parties: they get a chance to examine why they are doing what they are doing, and I get a chance to see thier side... maybe the car is very good for long distance travelling, which will come in very handy for putting a few thousand kilometres between themselves and Mike :D.



That reminds me of the Steven Wright joke about how he's convinced that someone broke into his apartment during the night, stole everything he owns and replaced it with exact replicas. Which is to say, what does it matter if the person really is a C++ programmer if he has all the knowledge required to be a C++ programmer?


Hmm... So what you are saying is: If a replica is perfect in every way, does it matter that it is a replica?

[HelenM]

When I joined IIDB, it was under the moniker of copiae. Later, after my .... distaste for the theist-bashing at IIDB grew and I left it (I know, most of you left for the opposite reason, but one of the benefits of neutrality is impartiality)

I'm not sure most of us have 'left IIDB', actually. And I don't recall any significant number posting here that they left IIDB for a reason that could be considered 'opposite' of yours (in fact, I can't think of any but maybe I've forgotten some posts).

Helen

[copiae]

Er, sorry, that was meant to be a 'some'. changing it now. =)

[godfry n. glad]

Ah, well there I can't help ya. All I can say is I'm sure there as many reasons people are dishonest online as offline. Relationships are complicated, and things are never black and white. Some people are just dogs and some people make a wrong turn and lose their way back home. I don't think it's possible to answer the question one way for everyone. Every person and circumstance is different than every other. Unfortunately all you can do is live and learn.

I guess so. Nonetheless, the psychology of why someone would do this fascinates me. And my heart goes out to those who are hurt by the deception - including the heart of the deceiver, as I'm sure they must be hurting in some way, too. (Not that that excuses anything, mind you!)

Wow...Can I agree with that. Been through the grinder, myself.

godfry

[godfry n. glad]

When I joined IIDB, it was under the moniker of copiae. Later, after my .... distaste for the theist-bashing at IIDB grew and I left it (I know, most of you left for the opposite reason, but one of the benefits of neutrality is impartiality)

I'm not sure most of us have 'left IIDB', actually. And I don't recall any significant number posting here that they left IIDB for a reason that could be considered 'opposite' of yours (in fact, I can't think of any but maybe I've forgotten some posts).

Helen

Yeah...! :noid:

They threw me out because I wouldn't agree to all their conditions. I had a problem with a liar that they didn't want me to make it clear onlist that I thought she was a liar. :glare: Confrontational, I think it was called.

So, it had nothing to do with theists, coddled or bashed.

godfry n. glad he's not at II. :D

[Adora]

If someone asked you whether two usernames are both you and you denied it, then you'd be lying.

What about if you were asked if a really really old username was yours, and you denied it because you didn't want the person finding out it was you? Because really, it isn't you anymore, is it? Because the you you were a microsecond ago is not the you you are now, right?

("No Mr Judge-Person. I did not inhale!")

For the record, there's very few cases where I have actually "left" (or been kicked off) a website. I've had about 2 cases of being banned, and only about 2-3 cases where I have actually permanently left a website. Mostly I just tend to end up lurking and then drifting away because I exhaust any interesting or entertaining threads/aspects of the forum. I may occasionally check back to see if the place is still going, but once you go through one abortion thread at II, and one "OMG my life sucks" thread at HH (no offence guys) you've gone through them all.

[HelenM]

If someone asked you whether two usernames are both you and you denied it, then you'd be lying.

What about if you were asked if a really really old username was yours, and you denied it because you didn't want the person finding out it was you? Because really, it isn't you anymore, is it? Because the you you were a microsecond ago is not the you you are now, right?

Technically, I would say it's lying in the sense that you're intentionally misleading them. On the other hand, in a sense it really isn't who you are now, so in that sense it's true. But not in the sense they mean the question, presumably.

Anyway, pragmatically, I don't see why you have to tell other people on the Internet that another username was you. I mean, you have no obligation to them. One of the advantages about the Internet is the anonymity it makes possible.

Judge-Person. I did not inhale!")

For the record, there's very few cases where I have actually "left" (or been kicked off) a website. I've had about 2 cases of being banned, and only about 2-3 cases where I have actually permanently left a website. Mostly I just tend to end up lurking and then drifting away because I exhaust any interesting or entertaining threads/aspects of the forum. I may occasionally check back to see if the place is still going, but once you go through one abortion thread at II, and one "OMG my life sucks" thread at HH (no offence guys) you've gone through them all.

I usually drift away too; however, when I was [mentally] ill (manic), I did get banned from three boards for - basically for being generally disruptive. I joined II DB when I was quite ill (March 2001) and as I understand it, there were private appeals to have me banned but nevertheless, they let me stay. They did create a new forum where a lot of my threads got moved, but they never banned me. The three sites which banned me were all Christian ones, for what it's worth. For all the debate about whether II tolerates posters who don't 'toe the party line', my own experience is that I wasn't banned when my posts were so weird that much of what I wrote surely could only have made sense to me.

Helen

[freemonkey]

Something interesting that's happened to me within the last few days:

I joined a newsletter group at Yahoo!Groups a few weeks ago under a psuedonym, then found a couple other discussion groups to join. These groups are both for digital arts and large format print professionals. I don't like posting my full/real name, for various reasons, including, but not limited to: people almost always assume I'm a man; because of my unusual first name, I'm afraid I'll run into someone I know; I just don't like the idea of my name being out there so much.

I've started a thread in each group, as introduction and asking business advice. On one group, I did not use my name at all. I got a few replies, starting "Dear ????" and one email message from a man telling me he'd be happy to respond if I'd tell him my name.

When I was invited into the other group, I was told to use my real name when posting. So I used M. Jones. Answers to that post were addressed "Dear M".

I understand they want to know who they're talking to, but what's to stop anyone from using a fake name/personality at these places, anyway?

[viscousmemories]

If someone asked you whether two usernames are both you and you denied it, then you'd be lying.

What about if you were asked if a really really old username was yours, and you denied it because you didn't want the person finding out it was you? Because really, it isn't you anymore, is it? Because the you you were a microsecond ago is not the you you are now, right?

("No Mr Judge-Person. I did not inhale!")
Hehe. Well assuming you're not kidding, of course that's lying. Now whether lying about such a thing is unethical is a whole other debate, but saying it isn't a lie because you're not the same 'you' you were then is equivocation. You used the wrong quote up there. The classic Clinton equivocation is "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

I may occasionally check back to see if the place is still going, but once you go through one abortion thread at II, and one "OMG my life sucks" thread at HH (no offence guys) you've gone through them all.
I guess if you're just looking for entertainment that's true. But I participate in these fora as much to get to know people as to be entertained, and yeah that means reading a lot of "OMG my life sucks" threads as well as a lot of "listen to the miraculous thing my frog accomplished" as well as... well, you get the idea. Most people I've met are varying degrees of boring, petty and annoying as well as interesting, fun and engaging. If you blow 'em off when they're down, don't look for them when they're up.

[godfry n. glad]

I understand they want to know who they're talking to, but what's to stop anyone from using a fake name/personality at these places, anyway?

Hey, freemonkey. I understand your trepidations, and would say there is nothing to stop anyone from using a fake name/personality other than the sheer transparency of choosing an obvious pseudonym.

I'm a moderator at a discussion board that attempts to maintain a "scholarly" format...we discourage flaming and personal attacks and encourage participants to counter the argument, not attack the arguer. Civil discussion is the goal and part of that objective is to have all our participants use their RL names. Our rationale is that if people put their reputation on the line, they are more likely to be civil and less likely to be a loose cannon. We cannot control for those who use real sounding pseudonyms...but it does help keep the heat to a mimimum. I think it helps.

godfry

[Bella]

Most people I've met are varying degrees of boring, petty and annoying as well as interesting, fun and engaging.
Amen. Er, I mean - yes. Absolutely.

[JoeP]

But I participate in these fora as much to get to know people as to be entertained, and yeah that means reading a lot of "OMG my life sucks" threads as well as a lot of "listen to the miraculous thing my frog accomplished" as well as... well, you get the idea. Most people I've met are varying degrees of boring, petty and annoying as well as interesting, fun and engaging. If you blow 'em off when they're down, don't look for them when they're up.
Now that's some wisdom. :bow2:

[JoeP]

people almost always assume I'm a man;
Why is that? I have to admit I made that assumption for a long time (at HH) until someone gave the game away. Do you think you write muscularly :flex:? Do you fail to use cute :girl: girlie avatars? Or is it just the nick - "free monkey" sounds like the kind of thing a guy would go for?

joe

[Adora]

I guess if you're just looking for entertainment that's true. But I participate in these fora as much to get to know people as to be entertained, and yeah that means reading a lot of "OMG my life sucks" threads as well as a lot of "listen to the miraculous thing my frog accomplished" as well as... well, you get the idea. Most people I've met are varying degrees of boring, petty and annoying as well as interesting, fun and engaging. If you blow 'em off when they're down, don't look for them when they're up.

Thank you daddy. I shall now be able to normalise my social aspects again. ¬_¬ Patronising bastard...

It's not that I don't find people interesting, it's just that HH was so slow for so long that it seemed the only reason it existed was so people could bitch in the "OMG my life sucks" sub forum. Nothing else was happening around there (oh, except for people bitching about conservatives and the election).

[Ymir's blood]

I joined II DB when I was quite ill (March 2001) and as I understand it, there were private appeals to have me banned but nevertheless, they let me stay. They did create a new forum where a lot of my threads got moved, but they never banned me. The three sites which banned me were all Christian ones, for what it's worth. For all the debate about whether II tolerates posters who don't 'toe the party line', my own experience is that I wasn't banned when my posts were so weird that much of what I wrote surely could only have made sense to me.

Helen
For what it's worth. I read and generally understood your posts back then. It wasn't always easy and perhaps I didn't come up with the same meaning that you intended of course, but most of the time, they made sense to me.

[viscousmemories]

Thank you daddy. I shall now be able to normalise my social aspects again. ¬_¬ Patronising bastard...
Don't hold back, Adora. Just tell me how you really feel. :D

Seriously though you're the one who was all "You exist for my amusement!" Which I honestly think is how a lot of people feel about these fora, incidentally. I didn't know if you were one of them or not, I was just saying if you're looking for relationships with people it's a bit... I dunno, callous to say one OMG my life sucks thread is the same as any other.

It's not that I don't find people interesting, it's just that HH was so slow for so long that it seemed the only reason it existed was so people could bitch in the "OMG my life sucks" sub forum. Nothing else was happening around there (oh, except for people bitching about conservatives and the election).
Yeah, I know what you mean. I think all forums go through ups and downs. Sometimes there does seem to be a definite predominance of negativity. I asked for my account to be disabled there recently because I didn't want to be a part of that negativity anymore. IMO the only real purpose of HH now is to provide the illusion of a place where 'others' (however loosely defined) can't see me. And I just don't have a need for such a place anymore.

[pescifish]

I am reminded how bulletin boards mimic real life. When it comes to honesty, I think unless a person is an excellent actor, his/her true nature eventually comes out.

There are idiots and assholes out here as well as IRL, I just think they are harder to keep away from on the Internet.

No offense, of course, to those of us who may be an idiot or an asshole.

[viscousmemories]

No offense, of course, to those of us who may be an idiot or an asshole.
None taken. :D

[pescifish]

No offense, of course, to those of us who may be an idiot or an asshole.
None taken. :D
Heh, you are always too quick, vm. I'm really glad you didn't quote my first draft of this post! But...

I was just coming back to edit that to read:
No offense, of course, to those of us who are idiots and assholes.
In which case, none taken by me, either.

[viscousmemories]

No offense, of course, to those of us who may be an idiot or an asshole.
None taken. :D
Heh, you are always too quick, vm. I'm really glad you didn't quote my first draft of this post! But...
I bet you don't use the instant e-mail notification of new posts feature, do ya? If you did, you'd know that the first draft you post is the one that gets e-mailed, in it's entirety, to everyone who has subscribed to the thread.

The one caveat being that quotes are not sent. So all I saw of your first draft was the comment, not who you were addressing. :D

[godfry n. glad]

I think all forums go through ups and downs. Sometimes there does seem to be a definite predominance of negativity. I asked for my account to be disabled there recently because I didn't want to be a part of that negativity anymore. IMO the only real purpose of HH now is to provide the illusion of a place where 'others' (however loosely defined) can't see me. And I just don't have a need for such a place anymore.

Do tell. Interesting.

I agree as to the fora tides. Try not to get caught in the riptides and undertows. They do come and go.

Do you think there is a "novelty factor" that keeps people looking for new experiences, leaving the current ones behind eventually? Or is that just personal growth, and to be expected?


godfry

[pescifish]

I bet you don't use the instant e-mail notification of new posts feature, do ya? If you did, you'd know that the first draft you post is the one that gets e-mailed, in it's entirety, to everyone who has subscribed to the thread. Ha! Not only do I not use it, I had no idea thread subscriptions actually send the text. I often get frustrated trying to proofread stuff on preview and give submitting it a shot and then... Well, I change my mind altogether, as I did on this one.

It's good to know that's how that works -- thanks! And I apologize to all those folks who have gotten an email and then been unable to find a post of mine that looks anything like what you got.

The one caveat being that quotes are not sent. So all I saw of your first draft was the comment, not who you were addressing.
Oh, well, my comment was very nice, I think. :innocent:

[freemonkey]

people almost always assume I'm a man;
Why is that? I have to admit I made that assumption for a long time (at HH) until someone gave the game away. Do you think you write muscularly :flex:? Do you fail to use cute :girl: girlie avatars? Or is it just the nick - "free monkey" sounds like the kind of thing a guy would go for?

joe

My real first name is often thought of as a man's name, but many women have the same name. If you're a good detective, you'll find it somewhere on this forum. :butterfly :violets: :fairy: :dragon: :shy2:

[viscousmemories]

Do you think there is a "novelty factor" that keeps people looking for new experiences, leaving the current ones behind eventually? Or is that just personal growth, and to be expected?
Y'know, I think the reasons people come and go are as many and varied as the people themselves. I'm sure a lot of people leave because they change or something in their life changes, and probably just as many leave because the forum or the makeup of the populace changes. Or because of a perceived change, even.

For example I've made the mistake of generalizing before - judging all the members of a forum on the actions of a few and making broad statements about everyone. Talk about your self-fulfilling prophecy. As soon as you start talking about how everyone is an asshole, you get everyone jumping down your throat.

[freemonkey]

I'm a moderator at a discussion board that attempts to maintain a "scholarly" format...we discourage flaming and personal attacks and encourage participants to counter the argument, not attack the arguer. Civil discussion is the goal and part of that objective is to have all our participants use their RL names. Our rationale is that if people put their reputation on the line, they are more likely to be civil and less likely to be a loose cannon. We cannot control for those who use real sounding pseudonyms...but it does help keep the heat to a mimimum. I think it helps.

That may be something along the lines of these groups are trying to do, one is an offshoot of the other. Maybe its to keep spammers or poachers away. I don't know, I don't see how you can prevent it. Maybe it makes members feel better, getting/giving advice from/to someone who is "verifiable". But its easy enough to make up a legit sounding identity, so it seems like they're giving themselves a false sense of security.

Although they're "members only" groups, it was easy to join. I've gotten private emails from people offering their print services. And I've gotten correspondence, on-list & off, from someone who insists I must do less than great work because some of my equipment is not up-to-the-minute technology. I'm waiting to find out what it is he sells. :noid:

[Petra]

You're like me, freemonkey, in that I have an unusual name. My first name, Petra, is not so unusual - although not so common here in NZ - but when you add my family name, I'm the only one with my full name in NZ, and I guess in the whole wide world! And that's without even having a middle name.

- yep, I just googled me, and I'm the only one out there. This is why I don't let Telecom print my address in either the printed telephone book or at www.whitepages.co.nz - I'm just too rare. :D

[viscousmemories]

You're like me, freemonkey, in that I have an unusual name. My first name, Petra, is not so unusual - although not so common here in NZ - but when you add my family name, I'm the only one with my full name in NZ, and I guess in the whole wide world! And that's without even having a middle name.

- yep, I just googled me, and I'm the only one out there. This is why I don't let Telecom print my address in either the printed telephone book or at www.whitepages.co.nz - I'm just too rare. :D

Wow, that's pretty unique! You can do a search for my first and last name "Thomas Hall" in Google and last time I checked I don't come up in the first 100 hits. If you throw in my middle name, though, no hits. ;)

[Petra]

Wow, that's pretty unique! You can do a search for my first and last name "Thomas Hall" in Google and last time I checked I don't come up in the first 100 hits. If you throw in my middle name, though, no hits. ;)

What's yer middle name? I bet it's something like Balthazar. :D

I just looked up my family name in the NZ online white pages, and there are only 3 hits - my father, my sister, and me. [Edit: actually, it's just me'n'my sis - they've got her twice, at an old number and her new number. My dad has a confidential number.]

Bugger, I can't resist showing y'all (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Petra+Paignton%22&btnG=Google+Search), cos in the google hits, it says in the abstract from a couple of the hits - "...the edgy writing of poets...", and "...featuring the sharp writing of poets...". ...LOL! Sucked in badly! :D

[viscousmemories]

Wow, that's pretty unique! You can do a search for my first and last name "Thomas Hall" in Google and last time I checked I don't come up in the first 100 hits. If you throw in my middle name, though, no hits. ;)

What's yer middle name? I bet it's something like Balthazar. :D
Close. It's Marius.

I just looked up my family name in the NZ online white pages, and there are only 3 hits - my father, my sister, and me.

Bugger, <snip> I can't resist showing y'all, cos in the google hits, it says in the abstract from a couple of the hits - "...the edgy writing of poets...", and "...featuring the sharp writing of poets...". ...LOL! Sucked in badly! :D
Cool. :)

I snipped out the URL in my quote in case you get squeamish. :)

[Petra]

Close. It's Marius. Marius? I bet you have some Dutch in your ancestry.


I snipped out the URL in my quote in case you get squeamish. :)

Thanks, that's very nice of you. :)

I'm not feeling squeamish now - but you never know how I'll feel when it's 'round midnight. :)

[viscousmemories]

Close. It's Marius. Marius? I bet you have some Dutch in your ancestry.
I've been told I'm a mutt because of my Dad. I'm supposedly 50% French Canadian (from my Mom's side) and 25% Irish, and then parts English, Swedish and Norweigian. :)

[dave_a]

I use the same username on all forums I am on except one. So what happened recently is someone on forum a googled my username and found a post on forum b. In that forum I was talking about this person, not using personally identifiable info, but info that this person recognized as being about them. Unfortuantely the post wasn't flattering to this person so I got an earful.

Makes me very reluctant to be open on forums like this one that also allow google to list every word ever said here. I didn't realize this forum did that until recently.

Anyway, where I work we interviewed a guy once and my boss thought it would be a good idea to pull up info on the net about him in making her decision. She just put his email addy into google and what turned up was his website dedicated to obese women who like to wear leather and use whips. They guy interviewed really well and seemed qualified, but my boss got squicked and wouldn't even consider hiring him.

I like being honest and open, but the very nature of the net being so open makes it difficult. Sometimes being honest means I reveal things to one set of people I wouldn't want revealed to another set. Good luck keeping it seperated unless you use different emails and usernames everywhere you go.

[Adora]

Don't hold back, Adora. Just tell me how you really feel. :D

I love you like I love cookies and fluffy bunnies and goldfish and kittens and cock and boobies. How about that instead?

Seriously though you're the one who was all "You exist for my amusement!"

Damn straight! And when the OMG my life suxx0rz threads stopped being amusing, I simply couldn't find anymore reasons to hang around there anymore. ;D

[JoeP]

Close. It's Marius. Marius? I bet you have some Dutch in your ancestry.I was going to say.

Marius is my (Afrikaans) boss's first name. Now I have to hate your guts. :P

[JoeP]

Now this thread is googleable and I will one day get into trouble. Howzit Marius, I'm just kidding around.

[Godless Dave]

In real life I am skinny, sober, and celibate.

[HelenM]

I joined II DB when I was quite ill (March 2001) and as I understand it, there were private appeals to have me banned but nevertheless, they let me stay. They did create a new forum where a lot of my threads got moved, but they never banned me. The three sites which banned me were all Christian ones, for what it's worth. For all the debate about whether II tolerates posters who don't 'toe the party line', my own experience is that I wasn't banned when my posts were so weird that much of what I wrote surely could only have made sense to me.

Helen
For what it's worth. I read and generally understood your posts back then. It wasn't always easy and perhaps I didn't come up with the same meaning that you intended of course, but most of the time, they made sense to me.

Thanks - that's reassuring!

Helen

[Farren]

I joined II DB when I was quite ill (March 2001) and as I understand it, there were private appeals to have me banned but nevertheless, they let me stay. They did create a new forum where a lot of my threads got moved, but they never banned me. The three sites which banned me were all Christian ones, for what it's worth. For all the debate about whether II tolerates posters who don't 'toe the party line', my own experience is that I wasn't banned when my posts were so weird that much of what I wrote surely could only have made sense to me.

Helen
For what it's worth. I read and generally understood your posts back then. It wasn't always easy and perhaps I didn't come up with the same meaning that you intended of course, but most of the time, they made sense to me.

Thanks - that's reassuring!

Helen

Wow. I've never read anything by you that's remotely ban-worthy. I always thought you had such a gentle, considerate way of writing.

[godfry n. glad]

In real life I am skinny, sober, and celibate.


Willingly?

g&g

[Dingfod]

Close. It's Marius. Marius? I bet you have some Dutch in your ancestry.I was going to say.

Marius is my (Afrikaans) boss's first name. Now I have to hate your guts. :PAnd "Marry us." were the fatal words I said to the Baptist minister before committing to a lifetime of who-knew-what, so I too must hate him.

[viscousmemories]

Wait. Since when did y'all need an excuse to hate me?

[Dingfod]

Wait. Hate is a four letter word. So is wait. So is four. So is word. Damn, so is damn.

[Shelli]

:tiggermonkey: :larrow: WYSIWYG

[Shake]

You'd find me quiter IRL, but this really is who I am here. Opinions expressed in my posts online represent my true feelings. Obviously, some of us hold some things back out of security type concerns, but is that really being dishonest? Many people are more open than perhaps they should be online. Those who've dealt with secrecy understand the concept of need-to-know and much personal information is like that.

[JoeP]

This was an interesting thread to resurrect :live:, Shelli. Look at those ex-posters ... Farren! Adora! Ronin!

[Shelli]

Yes, I've noticed that there are a few people who were once quite active but are no longer here.

BTW, most of my old thread resurrections occur when I'm looking to see who'd doing what and see a bot in an old thread, at which point, I sometimes check out the thread if it peeks my interest.

[Crumb]

And HelenM, tell me was HelenM once HelenSL on IIDB?

[The Lone Ranger]

Eh. Who I am is who I am. I've never felt any need to pretend to be anyone else. As best I can tell, I'm precisely the same online as I am "in real life."

Cheers,

Michael

[Except that I almost never say "cheers" IRL when ending a conversation. Usually, it's "good-bye".]

[Ymir's blood]

And HelenM, tell me was HelenM once HelenSL on IIDB?

Yes.

[quiet bear]

I am far more honest on the internet than I am in real life. With the people here, and with myself.


The people here at FF know far more about my thoughts and feelings than anyone in my real life, with the exception of family, of course.

[Petra]

Heh. Very interesting thread to resurrect. :innocent:

Mainly because as the starter of this thread, at the time I started this thread, I was very open and honest. And then I went through a period of intense dishonesty. Not here, but elsewhere. Heh.

:choices:

[Dingfod]

Those who have met me in person know that I'm actually a frolicsome 18 year old girl, 38-22-34, who's into spontaneous lascivious acts with strange men I meet. The cantankerous persona is just an act to keep you damned internet perverts from constantly harassing me.

If only you know how hard I have to work to keep from getting all bubbly and spicing up my posts with multiple exclamation points and sappy smilies...You're not fooling me again, pz, I've seen your topless pics.

I've been lying to all of you all along. I'm not actually an unhappy troubled overweight balding middle-aged middle-class white man living in Oklahoma, I'm actually a 32 year old slender and fairly attractive dark complected woman raised as Jewish in Brooklyn (adopted), then made a fortune daytrading in high tech stocks, retiring at age 28 to Isla Barra, but bored quickly with the leisure-class lifestyle and decided to pretend to be someone else on the internet just for fun. But, now I must go and write another big fat check to George W. Bush and those good god-fearing Republicans. Ciao, mis amigos!

~or not~

I AM RAMTHA, 35,000 YEAR OLD WARRIOR.
I SPEAK THROUGH WARRENLY TO WARN ALL
OF YOU UNBELIEVERS THAT YOU BEST GET
YOUR HOUSE IN ORDER BEFORE I RETURN TO
RAIN DEATH UPON YOUR HOUSE.Man, what was I smoking that day and where can I get some more?

[Shelli]

More importantly, Dingfod, give me some! :bonghit:

[chick]

I'm just me, man. Dig it.
:janice:

[Crumb]

:chuckle:

[Beth]

I am pretty honest online. I tend to be more unhinged (as someone put it *glares*) online than I am IRL. I tend to put more of my emotion out into writing than I do into RL action.

[Crumb]

I'm not as :dopey: IRL. Honest. :innocent:

[Watser?]

I am really a Baka pygmy from Cameroon. I don't even speak Dutch.

[Shelli]

:lol:

[wei yau]

I'm more of a self-absorbed jerk offline. Online, I tend to be more caring of others, or at least am better at making it look that way.

[Dingfod]

I don't believe you, Eldar wei yau.