n00b gardener needs advice

[ms_ann_thrope]

I am really grooving on my new yard (just bought my first house, woohoo!), but really don't know my ass from my elbow when it comes to plants, or landscaping in general. I think I've got the lawn pretty well sorted out; it's looking really good except for the hole to China that my greyhound has recently decided to start digging. :glare: But some of the plants that came with the place have me stymied.

Citrus
Previous owners left behind a potted orange tree as well as one each lime and lemon tree in the ground. Lemon and lime trees look good from a leafy perspective. Lemon tree has lots of fruit, but it's all green. How long does it take to go yellow? Lime tree is only bearing fruit on the very bottom limbs. Is that normal? If not, how can I encourage growth on the rest of the tree (tree is about 7 ft tall BTW)? Orange tree had lots of fruit that I recently harvested. Leaves are not soft and supple like the lime and lemon trees, though -- they are kind of curling into themselves lengthwise so that the leaves look like tacos (if that makes sense?). What gives? Am I not watering it enough? I've been watering it the same as the other citrus but no improvement. Any advice on fertilizer? Should all citrus be treated equally? Are some easier than others?

Roses
I can now deadhead them without fear of killing them. :D But does anyone know any other way to encourage dense profusions of new blooms?

Lavender
It's getting real big; am I supposed to cut it back? When?

Salvia (a/k/a Mexican sage)
Same question as lavender. About half of the flowers are now drying out, but there are still enough blooms for Mr. Hummingbird to come visit everyday. I like to watch him. :popcorn:

Camellias
From what I understand, these are supposed to bloom in fall/winter. Both trees definitely appear to have buds on the verge of opening. Do these get cut back the same as roses? Any special needs?

If anyone has personal gardening advice to offer, or can recommend some good online resources, my black thumb thanks you in advance!

[godfry n. glad]

I am really grooving on my new yard (just bought my first house, woohoo!), but really don't know my ass from my elbow when it comes to plants, or landscaping in general. I think I've got the lawn pretty well sorted out; it's looking really good except for the hole to China that my greyhound has recently decided to start digging. :glare: But some of the plants that came with the place have me stymied.

First of all, let me congratulate you on your new home. That's really neat. I'm an inveterate garden putterer and when I can, I offer advice. I think my advice should be augmented and critiqued by any other gardeners here. I suspect there are more proficient than I.

How big is (or are) your garden area(s).

Citrus
Previous owners left behind a potted orange tree as well as one each lime and lemon tree in the ground. Lemon and lime trees look good from a leafy perspective. Lemon tree has lots of fruit, but it's all green. How long does it take to go yellow? Lime tree is only bearing fruit on the very bottom limbs. Is that normal? If not, how can I encourage growth on the rest of the tree (tree is about 7 ft tall BTW)? Orange tree had lots of fruit that I recently harvested. Leaves are not soft and supple like the lime and lemon trees, though -- they are kind of curling into themselves lengthwise so that the leaves look like tacos (if that makes sense?). What gives? Am I not watering it enough? I've been watering it the same as the other citrus but no improvement. Any advice on fertilizer? Should all citrus be treated equally? Are some easier than others?

I'm totally out of my league here. I know nothing about citrus trees. My father had a ten foot lemon tree in his back yard in Hayward, California. They were yellow when ripe, but I don't remember the time of year I saw them. They don't grow around here, except as extremely pampered indoor plants. You could be overwatering; I've done that. Or it could be a fungal infection.


Roses
I can now deadhead them without fear of killing them. :D But does anyone know any other way to encourage dense profusions of new blooms?

This I know. What you should be doing when you deadhead your roses (and don't do it now!) is cut back to just above the next stem with five leaves. To prune it hard, cut back to below that. Some believe that pruning harder encourages more blooms; I'm dubious. I just don't like my bushes to look rangy and ragged. Always try to leave some leaf stems, but it will come back in any case. I tend to prune mine hard in mid- to late-February, and then prune roughly by the five-leaf rule throughout the blooming season. I cut out most of the stems directed toward the center of the bush and aim for a roughly "chalice" shape. Make sure you fertilize about every six weeks. A bloom booster fertilizer, high in phosphates will encourage more blooms. Stop applying fertilizer after August. Stop deadheading in September or October and allow the last to fruit out so the plant goes dormant for the winter. You may get a way with a shorter dormant season if you're in a warmer climate, but they still need to go dormant for part of the year to do well. Prune back extra long stems that whip in the wind, as the whipping damages the crown (the bulbous portion of the root at ground level).

Problems: Usually two, aphids and fungus. For the aphids, the little green sucking bugs, I recommend lady bug releases twice this coming late spring and summer and then once every year thereafter. I don't know what bugs run at your local garden store (check out several, if you've got the good fortune), but they aren't too expensive. As for short term, spot infestations, use liquid dish soap diluted in a spray bottle (a sticker/spreader solution, available at the garden store, helps but isn't necessary). The soap clogs their air circulation. Relatively benign. Safer is a product name I use and trust.

As for the fungi, well, there's the rub around here. There are three major culprits: black spot, rust and powdery mildew. They pretty much look like they sound and can make leaves curl up, dry out and fall off. For one, I've found that my roses do much, much better without bark dust around them. For years, I used bark dust, or chipped bark, to keep the grass down around my roses. Well, I had hordes of problems with fungi of all three types. I went through commerical fungicides, but freaked when I read the directions and warnings. I tried using powdered wettable sulpher, and it worked...sorta...never mind that my rose garden smelled like the local papermill. Then a friend told me about an old wive's tale that had reputed been tested out at U Vermont as having some validity. It was a simple recipe:

3 heaping Tablespoons of baking soda and a squeeze of dish soap (or better, spreader/sticker solution) for each gallon of water you use in the sprayer. Dissolve it well before spraying. Respray after each rain.

It worked as well as the sulphur and didn't stink. It dawned on me the whole exercise was to reduce the pH of the soil. I'd been placing bark mulch under them for years. Evidently, the fungi prefer the acid soil with lots of duff. So, I removed as much of it as I reasonably could be putting it under the rhododendrons and camelias, which love acid soil and thus, acid soil amendments. Now I put fresh composted steer manure under my roses every spring after I prune them hard. After two years of regular spraying, I now only have rare and limited infestations. Keep it clean under those roses and nicely fertilized, they'll do you well. You may well have a longer growing season than do I, considering your citrus trees.


Lavender
It's getting real big; am I supposed to cut it back? When?

When they look ragged cut 'em back. I leave about six inches after pruning mine back. I've lost a few, too. Of course, they got next to no attention in the parking strip. They're perennial herbs. You should see my rosemary.

Salvia (a/k/a Mexican sage)
Same question as lavender. About half of the flowers are now drying out, but there are still enough blooms for Mr. Hummingbird to come visit everyday. I like to watch him. :popcorn:

Hmmm...Is it a perennial which dies back entirely? Or does it leave a woody stem? Don't have much sage 'round here.

Camellias
From what I understand, these are supposed to bloom in fall/winter. Both trees definitely appear to have buds on the verge of opening. Do these get cut back the same as roses? Any special needs?

If anyone has personal gardening advice to offer, or can recommend some good online resources, my black thumb thanks you in advance!

Don't worry about the odd camellia blooms every so often. Mine sport like that all the time. The big bloom is in March-April, depending. Again, if you're in a warm climate, they may bloom year round. Lots of dark green glossy leaves year 'round. They prefer acid soil and would love an occasional bag of bark mulch. These will take occasional pruning to keep under control. Depending upon size, you may wish do this yourself, or, as in my case, I have a pro come out every three years or so and prune them. There are different ways of pruning camellias to get vastly different results.

Need clarification, jusk ask.

I hope that's a helpful start. What's your soil like? Keep the dog in mind in making selections to add to your garden. I'd say think in terms of the "bones" and "structure" of your garden, first. Pathways, fences, trees, stuff that's not movable. If you want spring bulbs, think about those now and get them planted so you can plant over them with perennials or late annuals. Remember, though, that spring bulbs have messy tops after they bloom (don't put masses of them too near walkways), don't take them off until they are dry and brown. Then figure out what perennials you like and will survive in the environment. Use annual flowers as filler.

Of course, I'm not sure you're interested in just trees, shrubs, and flowers. You may want to vegetable garden. That's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. I'm an unimpressed former vegetable gardener. I grow my own tomatoes, green peppers, chives, and other herbs, and I wish I had my raspberry patch back, but that's about it.

godfry n. glad

[ms_ann_thrope]

How big is (or are) your garden area(s).Backyard is about 1000 sf. 40% of that is a concrete patio with a pergola over it (I'm hoping to train potted snail vine up and across the rafters), 30% of that is lawn, 20% is my "ground plantable region" (which is already pretty planted up with the citrus, lavender, rosemary, and roses), and the remaining 10% is a tan bark area (former owner used as a little kid play area; I have put my hammock out there). My camellias, one rose plant, the salvia, the snail vine, the orange tree, and some star jasmine are planted in containers placed on and around the concrete patio.

This I know. What you should be doing when you deadhead your roses (and don't do it now!)Oh shit, really? :doh: Uh.... maybe I haven't actually deadheaded them and have just been pruning kind of by the five-leaf rule and kind of haphazardly. And here I thought I was all rose-savvy because they were still alive after my ministrations, and because I learned a cool word like "deadhead." The last time I took the shears to them was about 3 weeks ago.I cut out most of the stems directed toward the center of the bush and aim for a roughly "chalice" shape.OK this makes sense to me for my tree rose plant, but does the same philosophy apply for my potted hybrid tea? I also have landscape and climber roses (the climbers are on trellises). They are looking a little bushy but it is less obvious to me what to do with them. I don't think I can make a chalice shape out of them.Stop deadheading in September or October and allow the last to fruit out so the plant goes dormant for the winter. You may get a way with a shorter dormant season if you're in a warmer climate,I'm in San Jose, California; pretty mild --- not unlike Hayward!but they still need to go dormant for part of the year to do well. Prune back extra long stems that whip in the wind, as the whipping damages the crown (the bulbous portion of the root at ground level).So... from this point on (mid-Oct), I just let them be, except for pruning back the extra long stems?

Safer is a product name I use and trust.Cool, that's the brand of spray I bought to use on my roses and citrus.

When they look ragged cut 'em back.LOL, part of my problem is that I have a hard time telling the difference between ragged and "Wow, wotta green thumb I am having!"I leave about six inches after pruning mine back.OK mine must be out of control; some of the stems are 3 feet long.

Hmmm...Is it a perennial which dies back entirely? Or does it leave a woody stem? Don't have much sage 'round here.Woody stem. Is very different from sage I have grown in the past as part of ill-fated herb garden.

Depending upon size, you may wish do this yourself, or, as in my case, I have a pro come out every three years or so and prune them. There are different ways of pruning camellias to get vastly different results.My camellias are about 4.5 feet tall and are in 20-inch pots on the concrete patio. Yours sound much larger! If they bloom year round here in CA, awesome, I love looking at blooms; they make me happy.

I hope that's a helpful start.Extremely; thank you! :bow: What's your soil like?Typical California clay. Crappy.Of course, I'm not sure you're interested in just trees, shrubs, and flowers. You may want to vegetable garden.Nah, I'd like to stick to trees, shrubs, and flowers. The citrus is enough 'food' for me! I would like to get some kumquats going, though; I love those suckers. Maybe I'll replace the orange tree with kumquats... :chin:

Thank you SO much godfry for your advice! I will definitely take action on the roses based on your recommendations.

[godfry n. glad]

How big is (or are) your garden area(s).Backyard is about 1000 sf. 40% of that is a concrete patio with a pergola over it (I'm hoping to train potted snail vine up and across the rafters), 30% of that is lawn, 20% is my "ground plantable region" (which is already pretty planted up with the citrus, lavender, rosemary, and roses), and the remaining 10% is a tan bark area (former owner used as a little kid play area; I have put my hammock out there). My camellias, one rose plant, the salvia, the snail vine, the orange tree, and some star jasmine are planted in containers placed on and around the concrete patio.

Okay... Now I've a better picture. How about sun and water? If I remember correctly, San Jose is in a bit of a rain shadow (drier than the coastal region just over the mountains to the west). It also sounds like you've got a lot of potted things, which I've never done particularly well with because it takes regular watering. Around here, I depend a lot on the rain for watering and when it's dry for extended periods, like July and August, I can forget to water and my potted plants suffer as a result. I did raise lemon cucumbers and California Wonder green peppers in pots with some success, though. I also have several pots of delphinium/viola/rudbeckia mixes that bloom nicely throughout the May-October bloom season here. I get two blooms out of my delphiniums, May and September. See my pix in the Member's gallery.

This I know. What you should be doing when you deadhead your roses (and don't do it now!)Oh shit, really? :doh: Uh.... maybe I haven't actually deadheaded them and have just been pruning kind of by the five-leaf rule and kind of haphazardly. And here I thought I was all rose-savvy because they were still alive after my ministrations, and because I learned a cool word like "deadhead." The last time I took the shears to them was about 3 weeks ago.

Not to worry. Since you live in a warmer, drier climate than I, you probably can get a longer season on the blooms. I wouldn't deadhead any more this season, though. Just let them flower; then let the blooms blow and the hips form....many will not, don't worry though, they're going dormant for the winter.

I cut out most of the stems directed toward the center of the bush and aim for a roughly "chalice" shape.OK this makes sense to me for my tree rose plant, but does the same philosophy apply for my potted hybrid tea? I also have landscape and climber roses (the climbers are on trellises). They are looking a little bushy but it is less obvious to me what to do with them. I don't think I can make a chalice shape out of them.

Ooop... Yeah, don't try even. Ramblers and climbers need to be trained. I don't have any anymore, so I'd have to consult my books to give you decent advice. Landscape roses should just be pruned back when they're getting in the way. Most of which I'm aware have only one bloom a year. If they are rebloomers, you'd have to prune them, in most cases, to get the rebloom. Some don't need even that. Landscape roses are supposed to be relatively low care.

If you're considering new roses, I recommend Heirloom Roses online. They have roses that grow on their own roots, rather than like most hybrids which are grafted to a "species rose" or hardier root. When you lose a hybrid rose (usually to extended low temperatures, like the "Siberian Express" that hits here every ten years or so) you may later see branches sprout from below the bud union (that lump at ground level, where the graft was made) and send out long, rangy (but very, very hardy) rose stems, usually with vermillion red blossoms. That's the original rose of the root system.

[Stop deadheading in September or October and allow the last to fruit out so the plant goes dormant for the winter. You may get a way with a shorter dormant season if you're in a warmer climate,I'm in San Jose, California; pretty mild --- not unlike Hayward!

Yep. I'd bet a longer growing season than here in Portland. You should be fine.

but they still need to go dormant for part of the year to do well. Prune back extra long stems that whip in the wind, as the whipping damages the crown (the bulbous portion of the root at ground level).So... from this point on (mid-Oct), I just let them be, except for pruning back the extra long stems?

Yep, that's the ticket. Try not to cut to many and try to wait until the plant has lost most of its leaves to prune the

When they look ragged cut 'em back.LOL, part of my problem is that I have a hard time telling the difference between ragged and "Wow, wotta green thumb I am having!"I leave about six inches after pruning mine back.OK mine must be out of control; some of the stems are 3 feet long.

Nah, that's kinda normal for the end of the growing season. But if you don't prune them back late this fall, they'll be even more leggy next year.


Hmmm...Is it a perennial which dies back entirely? Or does it leave a woody stem? Don't have much sage 'round here.Woody stem. Is very different from sage I have grown in the past as part of ill-fated herb garden.

Then I'd treat it much the same as the lavendar.

Depending upon size, you may wish do this yourself, or, as in my case, I have a pro come out every three years or so and prune them. There are different ways of pruning camellias to get vastly different results.My camellias are about 4.5 feet tall and are in 20-inch pots on the concrete patio. Yours sound much larger! If they bloom year round here in CA, awesome, I love looking at blooms; they make me happy.

Heh... Yeah. Mine are all planted in the ground and are running at approximately 50 years in the ground ('cept for a little five-footer white camellia I planted about six years back) and I have to prune them back to about 18'-20' every three or four years. Between they and the very happy rhododendrons, I have an area my wife and I used to refer to as "the jungle". Camellias are pretty tough, but if yours are potted, they may eventually become root-bound. Then you'll need to prune roots, as well as limbs. There are excellent books out there on care (Ortho's handbooks are always a pretty good buy...just ignore their pesticide recommendations... that's their business). The public library might have some decent books on camellias, too.

I hope that's a helpful start.Extremely; thank you! :bow: What's your soil like?Typical California clay. Crappy.

Ah, yes, the same heavy clay I work with, I'd bet. Around here it only soaks up so much water before becoming a quagmire with walking on it. My back (and only) lawn is nearly a clay bog. That clay is heavy with nutrients, but can be a problem with water retention (both ways, too much and too little). For most plants, you'll want to add as much humus, or organic material, to the soil as possible. Like I noted, I use regular applications of steer manure and my homemade compost.

Of course, I'm not sure you're interested in just trees, shrubs, and flowers. You may want to vegetable garden.Nah, I'd like to stick to trees, shrubs, and flowers. The citrus is enough 'food' for me! I would like to get some kumquats going, though; I love those suckers. Maybe I'll replace the orange tree with kumquats... :chin:

Thank you SO much godfry for your advice! I will definitely take action on the roses based on your recommendations.

More'n happy to give out free advice. Since you've indicated you've a good sized dog, you may want to stay with the larger and harder to traumatize plantings. The potting probably helps with the dog, too. Many really beautiful perennials (dephiniums, for example) are very tender and a dog (or small child) trampling through them will do considerable damage.

Might I suggest tall bearded iris? Very drought tolerant. The have about a three week blooming period from mid-May to early June and come in all sorts of beautiful colors. Except for the period when the bloom stems are tall and the plant is in blossom, they are impervious to most trepidations. It does require what is called "full sun" (six or more hours of sun at the peak of the season). I, myself, am an unrepentant iris junkie.

[Plant Woman]

I read G's reply last night and can't remember everything he said so if I repeat him, I apologize.

One thing that will be extremely helpful for you is to call your local county extension agent/master gardeners. Especially about your lemon/lime questions, if your orange trees has symptoms of a disease and pruning those roses. They will have specific advice for San Jose area.

Prune your lavender annually in the spring. Make sure you don't prune back into bare wood. Prune back where there are still living leaves. Pruning into bare areas will make the stem die. Usually people grow lavender for about 5-6 years then restart with new ones when they get too woody and leggy. Pruning annually helps keep them from getting too leggy too quickly.

Only prune your camellias after they bloom and only if necessary. If you are looking for tight (I call them uptight) camellia balls, or unless they are hedges you keep trimmed they do not need pruning every year. It depends on what you are looking for. Also if they are fall bloomers you may be able to get away with pruning them in spring. Depends on if they bloom on old wood or new wood. Winter and spring bloomers bloom on old wood so if you prune them in summer or fall you will prune off their flowers.

Do you know which specific salvias you have? Different species/cultivars will behave differently.

Sunset Western Garden book will help you a lot both in taking care of your plants and choosing new ones. You live in Sunset zone 15 (not to be confused with USDA climate zones which only are based on minimum cold temps for a region) which is different than just north of you which has a little more maritime influence and is considered Sunset zone 17. The listings in the book give zones so you can select plants with confidence and also tell you special care for plants in different zones. If you only could have one book on gardening this one would be the one.

Master Gardeners Santa Clara County (http://www.mastergardeners.org/links.html)

[godfry n. glad]

Oh, yeah! Sunset Western Garden guide is the best! An utterly invaluable gardening tool for anybody west of the Rockies! A must for your reference collection.

I shoulda recommended that, knowing you're in San Jose.

Thanks for the lavender tip, Debbie. Does the same apply to rosemary? Mine is now blooming for the second time this year, but it's starting to crowd the bottom of the front steps.

The rule I learned about flowering shrubs is to prune them shortly after they finish blooming. For me, that means my camellias get pruned about April-May. I'm going to heavily prune my Red Heart Rose-of-Sharon next to my front stair landing within the next month. It'll take a couple of years to fill out, if my back Rose-of-Sharon is any indication. And far more blooms, too!

[ms_ann_thrope]

Do you know which specific salvias you have? Different species/cultivars will behave differently.No idea whatsover. :sadcheer: It has long stalks of purple flowers and the hummingbird likes it. And I like the smell of the leaves (not sure if this sage is OK for eating so I'm leaving it all to the hummingbird). I image googled "mexican sage" and this definitely looks like my plant:
http://www.midpeninsulawater.org/images/mexican-sage.jpg

Master Gardeners Santa Clara County (http://www.mastergardeners.org/links.html)FANTASTIC LINK! Wow, I never knew that there was such a thing as a Master Gardener for the city/county, let alone that such a person would be available to help answer my questions. I will definitely give them a call on Monday to ask about my citrus. Wonder if they can be persuaded to make house calls? :chin:

Thank you both! I am excited to put this new knowledge to work... and I will put the Sunset book on my Amazon wishlist! :yup:

[Plant Woman]

That one is Salvia leucantha a species that can act as either a small shrub or herbaceous perennial (dies to the ground). It gets about 4 feet tall by 3-6 feet wide. To keep it flowering you want to remove the fading flowers which in turn will promote more flowers, plus help the plant not flop over everyone else in its vicinity. Now if your flowers are more violet in color it might be a cultivar called 'Santa Barbara' sometimes it is listed as 'Midnight'.

This is an ornamental sage and although it might be edible, I would stick with growing it for the hummers and buy a sage more suited for food consumption.

Prune it all the way to the ground in February or early March.